🏀 KuBuckets Archive

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10595985/baylor-bears-wear-sic-em-jerseys ↗

hahahahahahahahahahaha

HA!

Thoughts on tomorrows game who ever it might be.

JoJo will be there. Not in spirit ala WV and not in a Uniform ala Texas. But he will be there and I think that will help the team out emotionally. This team has a bond, as young as it is Wiggins and Embid bonded last summer and a reason Andrew chose to come to KU.

It doesn't matter who we play TT or OKst, we have to play solid D at all 5 spots on the floor.

We have to take care of hte ball and make FTs on offense. We have to make the right passes and take the right shots and scoring will be easy.

KU can NOT just show up and expect to win, they have to show up and fight!

@drgnslayr This is the time of year when Self starts changing up his D, or at least he has in the past. The Triangle and 2, the 2-3 and even the trapping 1-3-1,

The 1-3-1 with Wiggins up top, Seldon and Tharpe on the Wings Black in the middle and Ellis and/or Traylor running the baseline.

Maybe even go with a little token press? Last year Young used to hang around after a made basket and cause some issues with the in bound now and then, I see Traylor doing that some this year. We have the bodies, the length of those bodies to press more.

Defense create offense.

@drgnslayr What happens when we play WSU in the Final Four or NT game? Neither will be able to hold up the proverbial sign that reads, "You're not in Kansas any more." Even though we will be playing in Dallas, but it would be the a top 5 Sunflower state showdown* game ever!

*I know the sunflower showdown is between KU and ksu, but had to use the reference any way.

@JayHawkFanToo I hope so. He has had a few good games this year, but like a few others on this team, Tharpe, Wiggins, Seldon to name a few he has disappeared.

The only bonus of this team is that when one of them shrunk like a flower in the cold, somebody else stepped up, be it Black or Mason or another starter.

@nuleafjhawk BTW - I'm just having a little fun. Laughing with - not at!!

That's what I was thinking too when I posted.

I think it was Georgia Tech maybe Marquette mid to late 80's or someone else who knows can't find it anywhere that the coach would put in the last 5 on the bench when he would get mad at his starters, they were called the scrambled eggs, or his substitutions were called that. Not sure the coach or the team, butI do remember that nickname and how it was done.

But we have to be careful with Tyler isn't he redshirting this year due to injury? I'd hate to burn his redshirt this late in the season. Just adding to the laugh

I'll throw this up there just as a wild hair. Nothing of any real substance but you never know.

What if Self starts both Black and Traylor and sits Ellis?

I know we loose points, but we gain defense and hustle with Jamari, and emotion.

Maybe having Ellis come off the bench would awaken the sleeping monster inside him?

Put the black and blue bothers in the paint and see who wants to visit them?

Again not saying this should happen, but 'what if''

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. These six (18) individuals have made a choice to work, a choice to sacrifice, to put themselves on the line 23 (33+) nights for the next 4 (5) months, to represent you, this high school (college). That kind of commitment and effort deserves and demands your respect. This is your team.

--Coach Norman Dale, Hickory Hoosiers

You know, most people would kill... to be treated like a god, just for a few moments

--Coach Norman Dale, Hickory Hoosiers

There's a, um tradition in tournament play- not talk about the next step until you've climbed the one in front of you. I'm sure going to the state finals is beyond your wildest dreams, so let's just keep it right there.

--Coach Norman Dale, Hickory Hoosiers

If you put your effort and concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don't care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game, in my book we're gonna be winners.
--Coach Norman Dale, Hickory Hoosiers

@drgnslayr I can see the cover of SI now.

Andrew flying through the air over Tarik, Jamari and Landon all flexing their muscle

Penultimately, I found enough of the rest of your premise, assumptions, and reasoning either sufficiently difficult for me to follow that I decided it was beyond my ability and time to unsnag them meaningfully and so respond meaningfully beyond what I have already posted

@jaybate 1.0 Really you find my post hard to follow? Really? Beause, well your long winded over usage of non necessary words, that stray from your main point of your post that ramble on longer than most novels are easy to follow??? Really?

I remember my last game my senior year, coach came up to me looked me in the eye right before the tip and said, "Don't ever and I mean ever look back and ask, 'What if?'" I played a solid game that night fouled out on a a hustle foul with a few minutes left. I walked off that court with my head held high, did a little wave to the crowd and sat down.

I to this day 23 years later have never asked myself 'what if?' about my senior year of ball.

So Tarik, no WHAT IFs from here on out. Go get em

Andrew and the Amazings

Wiggins and the Wonderfuls

@drgnslayr I'd like to see more out of Green too. He and Lucas are very similar in that they have the skills, but need the time at full speed and the reps to be even better. But they will both get there, they just need to not press the situation when they are in the game, don't get sped up, do what they need to do, be the role player they are intended to be this year and make things happen.

Frankamp is another that has been playing well of late, I just hope he continues his growth through the tournaments, ala Ellis last year.

After the way this season has gone, ups and downs and surprises. Alng with the way the WV game went, down 12, down 26 got real close to lose by 6. I am not sure how I feel or have any idea how this team will do in the NCAA's.

It's always about match ups, but to me this year that is more true than years past. If we run into teams that like to drive or have power guards we might not get out of the 32s, but if we find a team that likes to throw in around the perimeter we can make the elite 8.

If they play like they did against Texas the first time it will be a short post season, if they play like they did against Texas in game two they could win it all.

So short story long I will give them a 7 on how I feel about them.

Keeping it positive and they have so so much talent and a great coach I shouldn't be worried.

@jaybate 1.0 As it was stated above and then I re-stated it assist are a two man game. He can make the pass but if others are throwing up bricks, or missing dunks or turning it over then he can't get any.

Nice back fill uh? I ask for facts and you go with that line with no other argument? Why is that? No proof?

Next? Is that your back up line to "straw arguments"?

Just take your keyboard and go home then you if you don't want to play.

@jaybate 1.0 Why are our opinions "straw arguments" while yours seem to be factual?

What proof do you have that anything you say is correct> YOIu have no facts to base your opinions off of, or at least you have shown no proof of facts.

That's what message boards are for, for people to express their opinions and yes we can disagree, but to call out someones opinions without facts to back it up that theirs are false and yours are right are ridiculous.

What proof do you have that Self didn't care about the WV game?

What proof do you have that Wiggins played outside of the offense?

What proof do you have that Self pulled Tharpe so Wiggins could be showcased for the NBA?

What proof do you have that anything yoiu said is factual and my statements are all false?

Sure you can throw up numbers, most accountants will tell you that you can make numbers say whatever you want them to. So do better than just throwing numbers up there. Also try not to quote 36 different famous people in history, try using your own words, but don't let that go to your head and use your over verbaged rhetoric to try and hide the fact you are stalling. Use actual facts that can be backed up, unlike saying that Huggins got 10K for beating KU and Self when it is widely been known and publicized it was 25K. You tell others not to use wikipedia as a source, and I agree, but what source are you using?

Don't act like a sports talk radio guy and when you start losing an argument hang up on them so they can't keep winning and then you have the air all to yourself so you can call it a win. That's what Jim Rome and Collin Cowheard do, and why? Do they not have a good argument or are they so full of themselves they can never admit when they are wrong or have lost?

I used my opinions to state my feelings, never claiming anything but that they were opinions. I took my side you had yours. But you couldn't let it happen that I stepped on your toes, so you had to call out my arguments as straw, like they were completely false and that you are the only one with any knowledge of the game. Unless you are in the locker room, at practice or in the huddles at timeouts or are related to someone that is, then you do not know, you do not have the facts to your arguments either. They are just your opinions and that's ok, just don't try to pass them off as facts why everyone else's are not legit opinions.

Thanks

@HawkInMizery That's right it's called March MADNESS for a reason. Anything can happen and anything is possible.

At the beginning of the Season Embid was to e a project and would learn from Traylor and Black how to play. The team was fine with him coming off the bench early in the season and playing for Black who was always in foul trouble.

As the season progressed not only us but the country found how the force that JoJo was. Black came off the bench and Traylor became a very high energy guy off the bench to give the team a spark and take high percentage shots.

Now here we are in season 3 of this year, no JoJo. This team has enough talent and it has heart too, they just need to all put it together over the next 4 weeks to show the world that Kansas basketball can put anybody on the floor and compete with whoever the other 5 are.

Rock Chalk
Stay Strong
F.O.E.
Jayhawk

@dylans Plus they had a counter in the crowd too that showed how many times he flopped, I think I saw it hit 5 at last count.

@dylans Say it aint so JoJo

KU is is 2-1 without Joel this season. That's not too bad.

Sure the OKst/TT match up in the Big12 might not be what KU needs right away without him, but they've had a few weeks to practice without him and he is not the only player on the team, he is juts the defensive catalyst for it.

Guards are going to have to step up, but with the rules this season its hard to stop a penetrating guard. Black has a reputation with these officials this year of being in foul trouble.

I have great faith in Self and staff, along with the other players on this team. I think KU will be ok.
I am ore concerned about a stress fracture in JoJos back. I hope that heels and he can come back and be the giant that he is.

I got a chance to re watch the game late last night, and if you pay close attention to the offense as a whole in the second half, Wiggins seldom played out of the system. He drove the lane when it was there, he took open threes of pull up jumpers. He made some passes that were not capitalized by his teammates. One of his assist was in the high low game and it was a great pass, he looked for a few other times it just wasn't there so he didn't force a bad pass.

I am all about the team concept in any sport. Especially basketball, my true love of sports. I have played it and i have studied it, coached youth league and reffed it too.

When a team is operating in full affect on offense they can be unstoppable like KU was vs Texas game 2. When one player is playing out of the offense and not trying to get his teammates involved that team doesn't lose by 6 points, they usually lose by more. When a team plays great team D they can stop anyone, but if one player relaxes or lets up or isn't pulling their weight then the team D concept will not work, because their guy will be able to reek havoc and cause other defenders to help out then leaving their man open for an easy shot.

I do not believe coach Self called his last timeout around the 17 minute mark in the second half to tell AW to just do whatever it took and let the rest of the team just get out of the way.

Maybe Tharpes thumb was a bigger issue than the team let onto? And are letting onto?? Green Lucas Frankamp and Mason didn't do much for the team either. Frankamps D was better than I had seen all year though. Traylor didn't have a great game, but he showed heart and hustle. Ellis played OK typical Ellis game nothing fancy nothing lost. Black got into early foul trouble and struggled to make a dunk.

So to be a team player was AW to play as bad as the rest of his teammates? You know so he wouldn't show them up? Or was he to take over, be a leader be a deliminator and go for it?

Look the Big12 turny is up this week and then the big dance. If this team is losing a game by 20 again, and Wiggins takes over like he did against WV and KU advances please don't say that you have been waiting for that all year, or it's about time or you knew he could do it. And if he does and they lose I won't say man he played by himself and was selfish or anything along that trail.

Deal?

@drgnslayr You are right it is a team game. But you have to have teammates that can make a play when they are given the chance. Against WV they weren't making plays, missed dunks,three point bricks, turnovers, bad passes. So Andrew being a good teammate shouldered the load and tried to get KU the win.

Showcased or not, he played a very good game. As stated by others he plays the 3 and his job is not to rack up assist.
Doug McDermott who scored his 3000th career point Saturday night while going for 45 only had two assist.
The difference was Creighton was playing at home and won.

Woould it be good if AW went for 40 every game? probably not, but why pople are bagging on him and Self for it is ridiculous at best. But if he was able to go for 41 earlier in the year and did it say 4 times and KU went 2 for 4 in those games, wouldn't that open up the availability for others on the team to score when the D's were trying to trap him? It's what teams were doing to JoJo this year early when he was a raw scorer and they didn't know how to stop him, the doubled him and then they taught him to dribble out of them and find the open man. I am pretty secure in my thinking they would have taught AW the same thing and he would have been able to do the same thing.

Do I want a Carmello like player at KU? No. Do I wan't a ball hog at KU? No. Do I want guys that get the fundamental part of basketball? Yes. Do I want guys that understand the team concept at KU? Yes. Do I want a guy who has the ability to go off for 41 in hopes that it might be enough to carry his team to a victory? Yes. Just like EJ did vs ISU last year, he took the game over and willed them to win.

If KU would have come back from 27 and won the game and AW would have had 41 would we even be having this conversation?

@jaybate 1.0 And Huggy Bear got $25,000.00 for beating Self and KU not $10,000.00 as you posted.

http://mellinger.kansascity.com/entries/maybe-bob-huggins-beat-ku-contract-isnt-all-weird/ ↗

@JayHawkFanToo I know, I just couldn't help but bring up the manager fight they had in their pick up game a few weeks ago.

So who gets to coach these teams? The coach of the year for each conference? Cause the Big12 would be hurting with Rick Barnes at the helm.

It used to be if you won the college hoops title and it was an Olympic year that team went on to play in the Olympics that summer

@JayHawkFanToo No but how would you get UNC and Puke players to be teammates? Heck even their student managers go at it in pick up games.

@JayHawkFanToo Oh sorry I read it as that the Big12s first team played the second team.

My bad.

Sorry

@JayHawkFanToo Better yet take your top 12 guys and play the ACC's top 12 guys or the Big10 or Pac12 or SEC or Big East.

That too could be fun

Why has he been so stubborn about sticking with man defense when we gave up 50 in the first half, and then gave up 12 pts so quickly right after half

@BeddieKU23 For the same reason most coaches don't change up their D's even in football. It's what you know, what you practice. And on the bad side of a plus it gives you a lot of film to watch and show your team how to get better.

@jaybate 1.0 I understand the team concept of basketball as I played for four years varsity HS and 1 year NAIA ball. I am also a coaches son so I have been taught and coached my whole life about team and that concept.

With that being said, is it really AW's responsibility to make his teammates better when they have already disappeared from the game. Is he to pass the ball to a cold Seldon who was throwing up bricks? Was he to pass on an open 3 and throw it to Black who was missing dunks?

Until I hear coach Self say he was just trying to highlight Andrew for the NBA I won't buy it.

There are times when AW misses the open man when he drives, but yesterday that wasn't the case, he wasn't taking bad shots to get 41 points. As I stated above he shot 61% from the field.

AW is a team player and he has showed it all year, yesterday in a loss he showed that he could carry this team when nothing, absolutely nothing else was working for them. He didn't fold, he didn't bluff, he went all in and tried to win the game.

I have said many times that Micheal Jordan passed the ball out the either Kerr or Paxton for big shots, but everybody remembers him for the right to left hand lay-up vs the Lakers, or his shot of Ehlo or his 63 against the Celtics. But he too was a team player, thats how he won titles. But he also knew when he had to take over a game and do what ever it took to try and win it.

I am not comparing AW to MJ, just situational settings, but what Isaw yesterday was not a kid showing off for the NBA scouts, but trying to make his team win.

What is so wrong with that? Maybe everyone that thinks he was selfish should look at the other players on the court with him and see what they did or didn't do? Again it's a team sport a game where you win or lose as a team and what he was trying yesterday was to carry them to victory as the others waited for the ride.

Self usually holds that press tightly to his chest for the tournament run.

That's also when he breaks out the triangle and two, or box in 1 and even the 1-3-1 zone D that traps in the corners.

I am sure they practice this all season but why show your hand until you need to?

If you chose player B you picked Wiggins in a game KU lost.

Player A is Doug McDermott of Creighton on his last home game as a Blue Jay against a Providence team that had beaten them earlier in the year.

Player A: 36 min 17-25 FGM-FGA 5-7 3PM-PA 6-9 FTM-FTA 2 OReb 5 DReb 2 assist 0 Steals 0 Blocks 3 TOs 1 PF 45 total points.

Player B: 39 min 12-18 FGM-FGA 2-5 3PM-3PA 15-19FTM-FTA 4 OReb 4 DReb 2 assist 5 Steals 4 Blocks 4 TOs 5 PF 41 Total points

Who would you take just looking at those numbers? 68% from the field vs 66%. 71% from 3 vs 40% from 3. 66% ft vs 78%ft just to ad to those numbers listed above.
Don't just look at the offensive numbers look at them all.

@ralster I agree there is no way Self lost this game.

He didn't get a T in the second half and I predicted he would by the 14 minute mark. He didn't throw in the end of the bench for the last 20 minutes and rest his stars. He tried different rotations, he sat guys to coach them on the sidelines so they knew what they did wrong.

He can't go out there and make the play for them. They got punched square on the jaw and were out on their feet, but didn't get knocked out completely. That to me is Coach Self instilling in them to fight and keep fighting.

Wiggins fought the whole game, Traylor fought a lot in the second half, Frankamp did what he could do. But Tharpe, Mason, Seldon,Green, White, Black, Lucas, non of them showed me they wanted it as bad as Wiggins did yesterday.

But to put this game on the coaching staff is unfair. they are kids playing a game that didn't matter in how the Big12 ended, they knew that. Self had to be pissed at half giving up 50. Self had to be pissed by the effort in the second half by more than half the players he put out there. But his coaching did not lose this game.

@jaybate 1.0 Wiggins being show cased is not a problem for me.

I just don't get how poeple can one week say he's not aggressive enough or he disappears at times. Then turn around and jump all over him for only having two assist.

I'm all about the team concept in basketball. I loved the Lakers v Celtics in the 80's cause they won and lost as teams. I like KU because it's never been just about one player.

What wiggins did yesterday in my eyes was he took it personally and tried to will his team to a win. Down 27 and no timeouts left, playing your third string PG your post players are in foul trouble and no one can play D. Yet he didn't quit until he fouled out. He played solid D yesterday, not great but he did a good job.

He took on the work load that wasn't there due to Embid not there. hOw many games have they combined for 41 this year? Sometimes a player steps up and plays like that cause he needs to.

Was he being show cased? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't really seem like a Coach Self thing to do. I think he realized if he let him go they had a chance. I think Wiffins scored 12 straight for KU at one point and then Mason tried to drive the paint and turned it over at the FT line for a WV run out. Other's weren't getting the job done. Seldon couldnt hit anything late our bigs were ridiculously missing layup bunnies and dunks. Fankamp couldn't hit anything either.

So do you just lay down and take a beating or do you let someone try and carry you to the the top?

@RockChalkinTexas Gone where with what parameters?

@RockChalkinTexas Classless WVU fans chanting USA and booing Wiggins every time he had the ball. What was that?

They were booing because he played prep ball in WV and didn't even consider going to school there.

@Hawk8086 No he didn't take a lot of bad shots. He drew enough fouls to go 15 for 19 from the line and he made 12 of 18 shots from the field. He made 2 of 5 three-pointers.

It wasn't like he went all Allen Iverson and took 34 shots to get 41 points. His shot was falling, if it wasn't KU would have lost by 30.

You feed the hot hand. Look back to the 03 title game, Melo kept feeding the ball to McNamarra in the first half for three, why not? Feed the hot hand. Davidson made a run a few years back, they kept feeding Steph Curry the ball, why? He had the hot hand.

A few weeks back Fran kept saying when Wiggins was driving to the rim he wasn't looking at the rim and he wasn't finishing because of that. Now that he is finishing he's a bad passer.

A few weeks back the whole KU team had 6 assist and I posted about it and everyone told me the game plan in the second half was to drive to the rim. Well today it's Andrew can't pass.

He's not perfect, nobody is ever perfect, and he is still incredibly young and has that much talent.

Our D was the problem yesterday, not Andrew going for 41. They had three players score 22, 24 and 28. Hard to beat any team when you allow that to happen.

@jaybate 1.0 I agree about if he was green lit he could do it any time he wanted.

One he has a smooth jumper.
Two his second jump and ability to get his own miss is something you don't see much, especially as high as he gets on both jumps.
Three he defers a lot to his teammates, maybe not for assist, but I have seen him give up open jumpers to make a pass.

But I think yesterday he could have still had 35 if Embid would have been there to help contribute with maybe 15. Take a little pressure off of Wiggins but still allow him to play his game to keep them in it.

Down 25 and lose by 6 all because Wiggins willed them to do.

So without Embid in the same time zone, Black and Seldon neutralized by fouls and Tharpe and Mason outplayed on both ends of the floor and no bench support what so ever in the first half. Wiggins was supposed to defer shooting?

I said it after the game to a friend, if anyone could have made freethrows late we might of had a chance.

That and if guys kept trying to go one on one there weren't named Andrew Wiggins.

Feed the hot hand, he may only had two assist, but he had one late on the high low game that really sparked KU.

Nobody bashed EJ last year in Ames for going off for 39 in an OT win. So I am guessing that if KU would have won, the praises would have been sung.

This hit me today about Green and White. Sure without Wiggins and Seldon they get more playing time this year. But what does coach Self really like in his players?

Defense.

Green has come out and said that his D has improved so much this year in practice because he is guarding Wiggins and Seldon. He also has said it has made his offensive game better because Wiggins is guarding him.

I am sure White isgetting the same education on D and his offensive game.

So in the long run when Green and White are a junior andsenior and everybody is raving how good they are won't we have to give some of that credit to the OAD guys in Wiggins and Seldon for helping them improve their overall game?

@HighEliteMajor I'm not saying I'm an advocate for the OAD's I was just stating what people have posted in the past about not being able to sign the marquee names from time to time.

Trust me when I say I am all about team, and team work. I have posted many times when KU loses a game like last year to Michigan, this year to OK st when they all blame one guy. I stand up and say you win as a team you lose as a team.

Can you build a team around OADs? I think you an if the chemistry and leadership are there. Can you build a team around 3 and 4th year players? YES. Look at what Villanova did to KU this year. Look down the road to WSU this year as well. There can be a balance, I agree with you it about building for the future and not the now, but sometimes how do you pass up on a guy like Wiggins? He is having a better freshman year at KU than any other freshman in Kansas history.

This years team is something special with the mixture, no one transferred over the summer to Gonzaga because their feelings got hurt cause their playing time was shrinking. No one decided to play here or there or somewhere at Christmas break. Sure there are some rumblings that White wants to leave after this year, but if he sat and talked with Morningstar or Reed about staying and working hard and really earning that playing time he could be one of those guys people talk about for years to come.

I don't discount anyones potential, and I don't believe the hype surrounding others. I want to see it with my own eyes what these guys can do on the floor and as a team.

I remember seeing Hoosiers for the first time and I was an 8th grader and the student manager for our varsity boys team. We made it to state that year for the first time in almost 30 years. We went and saw Hoosiers the night before our first game, and from that point on until I graduated when we broke every huddle we yelled, "team"

@JayHawkFanToo You are correct I must have followed the wrong line of eye sight, but I fixed it and one other.

Thanks for finding that.

Isn't it a rock and a hard place scenario for Self?

He brings in some one and cones and we complain they don't stay and we have to rebuild.

But if he doesn't bring in the likes of Henry, Selby, Mclemore and Wiggins we complain he isn't getting it done in recruiting and Duke and Kentucky are our recruiting Kansas and we are going to fall into oblivion.

After Selby the word on Self was he couldn't develop a OAD. Wiggins and Embid have showed the world differently.

Now Self is being talked about as not only a great coach but a recruiter too. Which is funny cause ever since he was Illinois he was a big time recruiter.

@REHawk EXACTLY

@HawkInMizery NO! NO! NO!

no!

@HawkInMizery To add to your point what Tarik ha sadded this year will be something guys like Traylor and Lucas can use and teach in the upcoming years as well.

He is handing down his knowledge, his passion, his love of the game to those guys and if they learn anything from him they too will hand it down to the next batch of Jayhawks.