🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@justanotherfan

I fully agree on the cornet three in the NBA. Not only is the result of what yous aptly described, but the shot itself is almost two feet closer than a thee taken from the top of the key and thus the higher percentage of completion.

One of my pet peeves was hearing Marv Albert refer to every corner three (during the playoffs) as shot from "downtown." The "downtown" term was originally coined to indicate a very long three...

Origin of "downtown" ↗

Calling the shortest three "from downtown" seems kind of silly.

Second pet peeve, use of the words "pogo stick" during the NBA draft; how many time can they use the same term before it becomes annoying?

Any other pet peeves? We could start new thread with just pet peeves.

@jaybate 1.0

Seriously, I asked for clarification about the logical validity of your appeal to the authority of Jason King.

I provided you the information but it does not fit your own logic so you immediately rule it as invalid. You indicated in your previous post that Jason King and I were passing ourselves as experts, when in reality neither of us did. King simply compiled a number of interviews with current and former KU players and coaches. Neither he nor I drew any conclusions or inferences; he simply presented the interviews and reported the words as spoken by the players and coaches and I simply passed the information along. Nothing more, nothing less.

Has the use of logic to analyze discourse truly become reduced in your mind to a superfluous attempt to prove one's intelligence? I frankly don't follow your logic that one would post on a basketball board to prove one's intelligence. Personally, I would get another degree in something, or go take an IQ test, rather than post on a basketball board. Frankly I come here to learn. I wish you taught me something. If you were to teach me something I did not know, you would hear nothing but gratitude from me.

Can you be any more arrogant or patronizing?

You appear partial to use rather aggressive and/or vulgar tone in your backfill of some of my posts.

Really??? ↗

But the best way to build lasting love between us is to teach me something I don't know about the game.

You don't want to learn, you just want to lecture.

I am the humblest of creatures.

Really, and I mean REALLY???

Jaybate, you obviously smart have writing skill and a penchants for flights of fancy, but this is a sports forum. We are not here to show how smart we are or many paragraphs we can write about the simplest of things, we are here to talk about KU sports and related subjects...that's it. Write like you would talk to a friend at a sports bar after a few beers and not like you are presenting a paper to the Mensa society. you remind me of Sheldon, one of the character in the Big Bang TV show:

Mary: I have been telling you since you were four years old, it's okay to be smarter than everybody else, but you can't go around pointing it out.

Sheldon: Why?

Mary: Because people don't like it!

Like I said, save the grandiose prose for other forums and keep it simple in this one. if you need help, you can always go to this site...

Help with simpler words... ↗

RCJH :)

PS. I am done with this topic.

I read the article and was going to post it by you beat me to it. I believe the writer looked at normal expectation for the average football program; however, the expectations for the football program at KU are lower, an unfortunate side effect of the success of the basketball program.

KU should win 2 of the 3 non-conference games (Southeast Missouri State and Central Michigan) since they are both at home. I don't believe we stay close with a Duke team that finished last season ranked #25 and returns the majority of starters, although a close (away) game could be a morale booster.

Three conference wins probably buys Coach Weis another year; 4 or more conference wins means a non-losing record and measurable progress. One conference win definitely places Coach Weis in the hot seat and two wins is borderline. Just my opinion.

In your effort to prove, once again, that you know more than everybody else, you have managed to shoot yourself in the foot and blow a considerable amount of hot air in the process.

Fist, if you read my post you will see that I wrote "...essentially all the contacts are made head coach to head coach..." that while it implies that the contact is indeed as I indicated, it does not absolutely rule out other people getting involved; in fact, I also wrote "If a call was made it was likely done by Coach Self or one of his top assistants." Right?

Second, if you would have followed my advice and actually read "Beyond the Phog" you would know that Jason King does no make any arguments or draw/reach any conclusions. The entire book is a collection of 40 interviews with players and coaches that were part of the KU program since 2000, and all the information comes directly form the players and coaches mouths including Coaches Williams and Self.

Last, I did not indicate or imply that either Jason King or I were experts since neither offered a conclusion; again, that was an assumption on your part. Jason King simply reported what the players and coaches said in the interviews and I simply passed the information along. Once again, you should quit making assumptions.

Basketball personnel issues are dealt by basketball program personnel. AD Zenger has his hands full doing more important thing like raising funds to upgrade Memorial Stadium and I seriously doubt one, that he would have time for that, and two, that Coach Self would "pass that the buck" to him. Wouldn't you agree?

So, once again you attributed to me facts that I did not present or imply but fit neatly your pompous diatribe. Oscar Wilde famously said ...when you ASSume you make an...well, you know the rest...

@jaybate 1.0

Read the book "Beyond the Phog..." by Jason King and you will find out that essentially all contacts about transfers are made head coach to head coach and ADs do not get involved at all in this part of the operation. If a call was made it was likely done by Coach Self or one of his top assistants. Notre Dame would be an excellent program for Andre White.

@ralster

It is a function of supply and demand and currently there a few experienced coaches (with high % winning records) available. Golden State is paying Steve Kerr $25M for 5 years and he has ZERO coaching experience...at any level.

@jaybate 1.0

There was one headline for Wiggins going first, one for Embiid going third, another one on Philadelphia's criteria for selecting Embiid, one more on Cleveland counting on Wiggins...should I go on? What else did you expect? These are more headlines than any other school received.

BTW, you did not dispute any of the items I mentioned that refute your hardon for ESPN.

LeBron can pretty much name his price but there is no way Wade or Bosch get what they can get at Miami anywhere else. I believe the most likely scenario is that Wade and Bosch sign for less money so the Heat can get one name player (likely center) that together with start-to-be Nappier can get them back on top...or they can get Love, Gasol and Anthony and start all over again, after all, if they get rid of Cole, the have a blank slate...I can't think of a situation like this happening before.

Again...read the criteria that ESPN outlined for the list. Ict made a good case for why Self is not too far off from where he should be - again, based on the criteria ESPN selected. We can all agree that Coach Self is at or near the top of a list that ranks coaches based on (maybe) more conventional criteria; this is not that List.

Instead of saying "Putting Marshall on any list with Self is a joke." the question (again, based on the ESPN criteria) should be how can you not? The previous season he was couple of baskets away from beating eventual champion Louisville and moving to the finals. Last season he had and undefeated regular season, albeit against softer competition than KU, but played Kentucky, an eventual finalist, to within seconds of a win. He had two of the more successful seasons of any program and he did it with players no major program wanted. Marshall can flat out coach. Maybe as KU fans we don't like hm because some of the comments attributed to him, but to say he is not a good coach is silly. He has won consistently at both schools he has coached and if decides to leave WSU, every Division I program needing a coach would seriously consider him...and a few would fire their current coach to get him; not many coaches can say that.

@jaybate 1.0

I can only speak for myself and I know what I saw in the ESPN Draft Broadcast and read on its web site.

Maybe we are looking at different web sites and watching different channels. ESPN has had tons of stories on Wiggins and Embiid leading to the draft, particularly on Embiid. Likewise, all the on-air shows have covered extensively both players. During the season, on the NCAAM (Men College basketball) section on its web site, ESPN covered the top players with sections on the main web page dedicated to each player including Wiggins, Parker, Randle and Gordon; shortly after the start of the season they added Embiid and KU was the only school with 2 players; honestly I don't remember a single time I went to their web site during the season (I go there just about every day) when there was not at least one KU basketball related article. It would not surprise me at all if KU Basketball had the most articles of any prograrm . ...so much for KU being unreported.

I watched the entire ESPN draft broadcast and did not feel that KU players and/or program were under reported. There was lots of footage of both players throughout the evening, Had Embiid been there in person, I am sure the coverage would have increased greatly as the presence of both players would have been an added bonus, but unfortunately Embiid was not there; can't really blame ESP for that, can we?. Did you read the article I posted above? According to ESPN, the top two moments of the draft were about KU players.

Frankly, I am not sure what else you expected; could it be that your fixation with the ShoeCos is getting the best of you?

@drgnslayr

I agree on LeBron. Having lived in Ohio for 4 year I am aware of the loyalty people there have for their state. I just had an acquaintance move his family back to Ohio after 30+ years in the KC area.

LeBron's wife is also from Akron (a weird looking town, BTW) and she is the one that has been twitting about moving back, so it would not surprise me if she is the one wanting to move back home. LeBron famously said "The first time I stepped on an NBA court I became a businessman." so I believe he would go wherever is best for his career; however, his wife may have other ideas.

I think you are reading way too much into it. Embiid was not on location so there is no footage of him going on stage like the others; there are plenty of articles about him vis-à-vis the draft on the ESPN web site. Also, his reaction was botched due to satellite delay; ESPN called it one of the top moments of the draft second only to Wiggins going #1, see link below, item 2...

See item 2... ↗

@JayhawkRock78

Just curious, what makes you believe that T-Rob acquired his swagger playing street ball? His Sr. year he attended Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, N.H.and before that he played HS basketball at Riverdale Baptist High School in Upper Marlboro, Md, a well-to-do suburb of Washington DC and nowhere near the inner city playgrounds. By the way, the best basketball league in the Washington DC area is the Washington Catholic Athletic Conference (WCAC) which is all private schools. The closest he came to street ball is playing AAU ball that Ellis also played.

Again, I personally believe that street ball is overrated and most players acquire their real swagger playing organized HS basketball. In any case, with the advent of AAU basketball, this is where the better players play and improve their games and not in playgrounds.Just my opinion.

@DoubleDD

Interesting point. If Cleveland wins with Wiggins and without LeBron, it would affect LeBron's legacy big time.

@icthawkfan316

Nuleafhawk is right, I was referring to Wiggins suit/tux that I mentioned earlier on a different thread..

I agree, the trade was not a big deal and I am not sure Nappier is as bib an improvement over Mario as many are claiming. Mario's biggest asset is his defense and he could also play and complement all the superstars; we will have to wait and see if Nappier can do the same. The move does indicate that the Heat is willing to cater to its superstars by getting the player LeBron apparently wanted. In the end, LeBron will go to whatever team he feels gives him the best chance to chase and beat Jordan's legacy.

The Heat also offered Norris Cole to several teams but had no takers. I just don't see the Heat resigning Mario at $4M, so he will either have to take a cut in pay or go to a different team. It could work out OK for Mario since it would give him the opportunity to shine on his own without the big three hogging the spotlight.

Great showing for KU taking #1 and #3. Lots of exposure for the programs as video of game was shown through the night.

Biggest surprise, other than some unknown foreign players being drafted, is how much Cleanthony Early fell. It reminded me of Mario who also fell all the way to the second round...it worked out really well for him though.

@icthawkfan316

Told ya....

Wait until you see the outfit Wiggins is wearing to the draft...maybe it has his KU jersey inside like McLemore's jacket.

IMHO, much like street fighting, inner city street/playground ball is highly over rated. In a ring with a referee, an average trained fighter will beat a comparable street fighter every time; likewise, a well trained player will outperform a street/playground baller of comparable ability on a court with a referee and when playing as a team. Most college coaches will tell you that they spend most of the first season weaning players from the bad habit acquired playing street/playground ball and poor coaching.

Yes, many of the better players started on the playgrounds but became great with proper coaching and in more formal settings. away from the playgrounds. Just my opinion.

@ralster

Because of the geology under the field, it might not be feasible to lower the field as it has been discussed numerous times before in many forums. The easiest way to add more seats is to build up the horse shoe section to match the East and West stands. This would easily add 10,000+ seats; you can also move the field North closer to the North end zone and this would also allow to built stands on the South end zone (straight not horse shoe shaped) like many other stadiums have and this could add anywhere between 10,000 and 25,000 seats depending on configuration.

The question is: would the football program ever be able to fill that many seats? After all, this is not one of those...if you build it they will come scenarios.

@HighEliteMajor

A truck with a flat tire... :)

@ralster

Nice summary. As you know, of all the teams that make it to the dance, only one does not go home with a loss in it final game of the season and stories of what could have been. I talk to fans of other elite programs and they all have similar stories. If you are a top ranked program, short of winning the tournament, you will likely be disappointed, so by no means we are the only ones. The more successful the program is, the more disappointment there will be.

I thought about posting this story in the football section...but who would read it?

Track going... ↗

This should make a lot of folks happy but that track sure had a long and storied tradition... :(

@icthawkfan316

Let's face it, the Big 3 are no longer the big 3 of a couple of years back. Wade is just about finished and at this point he is playing for pride and a big paychecks, but in the open market he would not get even half of what he has left in his contract. Bosch is now a streaky jump shooter that disappears for entire games and does not provide the muscle inside that his position requires and the Heat sorely needs.

Their payroll for next season is about $50M with Bosch and Wade taking about $40M and 6 players with guaranteed contracts; 9 players in the current roster make under $1.6M.which means they have money and can rebuild almost from scratch. They can use their players with small contracts to trade to teams needing cap space, plus they can use future drafts picks and money to move up in the draft.

This draft is pretty loaded and with the available top shelf free agents available, there is going to be a lot of trades in the next couple of days,

LeBron James opting out of his contract has thrown a gigantic monkey wrench on the draft. Immediately affected will be Miami Heat personnel and by extension Mario Chalmers. Will the Heat stay together minus LeBron and use the available money and move up to get one or two of the top prospects?

@VailHawk

Ed Hightower was the referee at the '88 KU-OU game as well. He was kind of clownish as a referee, but apparently he was our good luck charm; too bad he is retired now,,,we could use another title.

@Crimsonorblue22

And a life-saver as well...

Sad news indeed. He overcame quite a bit and I am surprised it was not discovered earlier, particularly after the detached retina which seem to be a common occurrence for those with the condition and his physical development which also appears to be a tell-tale sign. Hopefully he can continue doing what he loves, maybe as a coach.

@icthawkfan316

Don't forget that Coach Self has the best record of any coach in the last 10 year, last 5 years and so om...He has also won the Conference title 10 years in a row, this accomplishment alone will be viewed in the future as one of the bigger achievements of all sport of all times. He has also sent a number of players to the NBA..

This is a similar criteria to that the American University Games committee looked at and determined that KU had the best program in the last 5 years....and who was the coach at KU for the last 5 years? Bill Self.

To me, who is doing the best job right now means a 3-5 year period, since judging coaches on just one season is nonsensical, wouldn't you agree? And based on a 3-5 year criteria, Coach Self has to near at or near the top. This is also the reason why coaches such as Larry Brown, who has been back for only two years and has yet to make it to the NCAA, are ranked lower; in another 2-3 years, provided he does not jump back to the NBA and continues improving the SMU program, Larry Brown will be ranked much higher.

@globaljaybird

Noel had and ACL tear, which could be considered equally or more serious than what Embiid has, and he fell to #6 in the draft, but he did not have nearly the upside Embiid has. I will guess Embiid drops to 4 but likely no lower than 6, although the Lakers at 7 could be an interesting place.

@wissoxfan83

As I mentioned in the post before yours, you have to read the criteria ESPN used.

Like Ict indicated on the main post, you need to read the criteria ESPN used to rate the coaches.before judging whether the list is correct or not. My list would likely be different if I would be selecting who I think are the "top" coaches, period. Maybe the list does not use the criteria many of us would, but it is what ESPN chose.

Remember this ranking that was done about the most successful programs?

Most successful basketball programs... ↗

I bet fans from all schools other than KU had a problem with the criteria, but that is what the story writers chose. In any case, if Coach Self is ranked #1, we will be quoting this poll for a long time.

@DoubleDD

The article below has a section that roughly outlines the procedure the committee used to select KU.

"The U.S. International University Sports Federation’s choice of a complete college hoops squad was a change from years past, when American all-star teams were sent to the Games.

Asked about the specific criteria that set KU apart, Jonas pointed to the Jayhawks’ five-year record — No. 1 in all of college basketball — plus preseason rankings, expected returners and last year’s RPI. A smaller, more speculative factor also played a role."

link to story... ↗

@icthawkfan316

I did not disagree with what you said and I do agree that Pop has made changes to exploit the strengths of his roster, much like most every other coach does; he simply does it better.

As far as Ginobile, except for the 10-11 season, he has come from the bench for the last 8+ years; in fact, coming off the bench has been his trademark. In this particular ranking he is listed as the the 5th best all time sixth man in the NBA...

Best sixth men in the NBA... ↗

Many great players performed better, at certain stages in their careers, coming off the bench; McHale, Walton Manning and Harden come to mind.

@HighEliteMajor

Absolutely. Like all coaches, he adjusts, changes and tweaks strategy constantly based on the available personnel, obviously not in the areas that you think he should, but the results speak for themselves, wouldn't you agree?

@icthawkfan316

Ginobile has been coming off the bench for 3 years now and has been getting votes for 6th man of the year ever since; he did win the award in 2008.

The main reason San Antonio plays so well is because the main players have been together for a long time, and the players they have recruited are the type that fit the system and fully embrace it. Together, Duncan Ginobile and Parker have now more playoff wins than any other trio in NBA history having broken the previous records held by Kareem, Magic and Cooper in the last playoffs. Look like having your core of players stay together for a long time is the key to success.

I wonder if the American fans in attendance will do the Jayhawk chant...it would be super cool and would increase KU's prestige and exposure worldwide.

Actually I believe that 10 is the ideal number of schools for a conference. You get to play the other 9 schools in football, alternating location every year, and home and away games against all other conference teams in basketball. It is the perfect number of conference games for both sports.

@icthawkfan316

Again, nice summary. I understand Ray Allen is till trying to scrub Manu's footprints from all over him :)

One good thing that came out of this series is that there are still teams in the NBA that play sound basketball. Watching tape of this games should be required viewing for any team with high aspirations. Leonard and Lillard benefited the most and came off the playoffs as superstars.

Beasley did not even suit up for the previous game and ended producing Miami's scoring at the end of the game, albeit in garbage time. He has incredible talent (as we KU fans know) but he is til very undisciplined and was caught out of position in defense almost every time. For a while, the Kansas boys, Chalmers and Beasley, provide the entire offense for Miami...again, in garbage time.

As poorly as Chalmers played throughout the series, he still had the best +/- of the team and seems that Miami played better, or should I say less poorly, when he was on the court. Interesting.

@drgnslayr

You nailed it.

In all fairness, we have yet to see have Frankamp can do since we have only gotten glimpses of him. The only sub 6 foot players that make it to the NBA are supper athletic, super fast guards that can penetrate and also shoot; I don't thing that described Frankamp...at least not yet. This would imply that his potential to play in the NBA is very small. However, his potential as a coach would seem to be very good and an apprenticeship with Coach Self would be a very good first step towards that goal.

@HighEliteMajor

He would be the glue-guy, of course ... :)

@nuleafjhawk

So, what made two 5 star quarterbacks ( that's 10 stars!! ) turn to mush when they landed in Lawrence, Ks?

Lack of support personnel? Look at all the great QBs, they all had receivers that could catch balls regardless of how precisely it was thrown. They also had an offensive line that protected them and gave them time to find receivers and a good running game to mix it up.

Other than a decent but spotty running game, KU has not had the other components to make a good QB great in recent years The last KU team that had all the component was the Mangino/Ressing Orange Bowl team.

@MoonwalkMafia

While I agree that Cozart is the best of the bunch, I am not sold on Cummings, who other than some running skills, does not bring much more to the table; have you seen his passes? He misses receivers by 10-20 feet; Heaps is head and shoulder above Cummings. I just don't see Cumming as a the backup. I believe Milweard and Darling will be ahead of him by the time season starts.

I agree on Miller; great potential but way too many off-field issues that KU just does not need.

@icthawkfan316

I don't have any idea what the numbers were, I was simply citing Tramel. I would guess that if he is no longer working for OSU he would not get the retirement portion, but then I really have no clue if this is correct.

I can see where if Ford has another well paying job lined up he would opt for a smaller lump sum that would result in higher overall payout to him.

@Crimsonorblue22

yes, I don't understand trading and how you can makes false statements to make a trade.

To be sure, I did not make any false statements and I am not involved in any trades... :)

It makes no sense that the statement would come from Cleveland since they have the first pick, and even if they want to trade him, it would be to their advantage that he is healthy so they can get the most value for him. Hopefully they get it sorted out by draft day.

@icthawkfan316

According to Barry Tramel there are 5 years left in the contract and more like $11M, which is still a lot of money. If he is fired, he would be paid his salary yearly minus whatever he makes in any new job he takes. It is possible that they could buy him out for a smaller lump sum payment.

Barry Tramel story and interview... ↗

@Crimsonorblue22

Are you referring to this story?

Embiid's potential red flags... ↗

At this time there is conflicting information and who know what is true. Remember the report about Arthur just before the draft? It surely hurt his ranking quite a bit, even when there was no truth to it.

@Crimsonorblue22

Darnell Jackson is currently playing in the Philippines...

Darnell Jackson play history... ↗

@Crimsonorblue22

To the best of my recollection, KU did not offer to Forte and that doomed any chance of getting Smart. I have to admit that OSU has had really good luck of late with who I call the smurfs on steroids, Keiton Page first and then Phil Forte.

I always liked the unheralded underdogs that came in when needed and performed solidly. Jeff Hawkins and Michael Lee among the older players and Kevin Young, Conner Teahan and even Jeff Withey among the more recent players come to mind, and the ultimate role player...RussRob.