Read Beyond the Phog. Chenowith was interviewed and his side of the story is there.
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
I got the same impression you did about Gidden after reading Beyond the Phog. In fact, I made me look at both,Coach Williams and Self, from a different perspective and made me realize that the coaches (and players) we know from watching them at games and press conferences can be quite different away from the limelight.
I purposely did not mention Giddens because he also was caught in a bad situation. Night clubs are where college kids go, particularly in the off-season and by all accounts, he did not start the fight or do the stabbing. You get a much different perspective when you read his side of the story in the book Beyond the Phog. Also, he did very well at his next stop and was drafted in the first round by the Celtics and made it to the NBA, so how can one really be disappointed...
Finally, just me personally, I'd be guilty of a reverse-cop out to blame Self (attributing it to him under the catch-all "buck stops there/he's the coach" phrase) for specific things--I consider that too simplistic.
...
I agree with you and I think you are spot on on your assessment.
Mario's offense has completely taken a vacation. His defense has improved some and this is why he still got to play 22 minutes and his +/- is better than any of the other players so he must be doing something right.
On Sports Center they were saying that the Heath needs to try a different lineup since the current one is just not working. Worst possible time for Chalmers to have a slump; hopefully he can get his confidence back and salvage the series and hopefully be in a good position to negotiate his contract. He and Pierce have been the most visible KU players in the NBA and I would hate to not have him, particularly when Pierce is getting close to retirement.
Pete Maravich is one of the top basketball players of all time at any level. Unfortunately because of his untimely passing, his name has been largely forgotten by most. He was a pure scorer and an unbelievable passer and his circus-like passes would have resulted in highlight reel dunks, but dunks were not allowed in college during his playing days at LSU. Also, there were no 3-point shot back then, otherwise his scoring average would have been even higher.
He is one of my favorite players of all time; thanks for bringing him up.
While the Euro Leagues might not be at the level of the NBA , they are (IMHO) very much at (or even above) the level of Division I college basketball in all aspects of the game. Keep in mind that while there are many quality "athletes" in college basketball, there are not that many superior, Wiggins-like athletes either.
Also a well trained, experienced professional player is likely more competent than an inexperienced, albeit athletic, college player. Look at Manu Ginobile, he is the prototype European player, not particularly athletic or physically gifted but he manages to run circles around more "gifted" t players include Chalmers, who he took to school when he was guarding him in game 1. There are lots of Manu-like players in the Euro Leagues.
Every time we underestimated other Leagues/Countries in international competition, the American team came back with no medals.
Just my opinion based mostly on what I read ,since I watch only a handful of Euro Leagues games, definitely not enough to be knowledgeable on the subject.
If I recall Conner Frankamp led all scorers in the McD all star game and shot a record breaking "Near perfect" 30 of 33 in the 3 point contest. I may be off in my stats-and I love Conner, but next level IS next level.
Frankamp broke Ellis scoring record for the Wichita HS League, he also led the Under 17 Team in scoring and to a Gold Medal in the FIBA tournament; however, Frankamp did not make the McDonald All-America team and did not play in the McD All-Star game.
How about...
Shock and Awe!!!
or
Shock and Awe-lexander!!!
There has been a several players that have disappointed but at the top of my list is C.J. Giles. Most scouts consider him one of the most talented players to ever come to KU, and he obviously blew it here and just about everywhere he went afterwards.
I like Andersen and he is the prototype journeyman player that does what the is asked to do without taking the spot light from the super stars. I never cared for Rodman and I care even less now; I think he is a real a-$-$-hole...and no, the "$" do not stand for dollars.
But also keep in mind that he has the longest suspension in the history of the NBA for drug use, which I undersatnd it was pretty hard core; although he seems to be fully rehabilitated and doing a fair amount of charity work.
@Crimsonorblue22 Thanks!
Nice summary of the game. I agree that the four missed free throws probably doomed the Spurs. If they make all four they are up by six points and perhaps the game turns out differently...maybe the elbow by Chalmers was done on purpose since the Heat went on a 13-9 run after that, really a a 13-6 run since the last 3 points by the Spurs was a meaningless three pointer at the final buzzer.
While Mario's offensive game was still below average, his defense was pretty decent and earned him 31 minutes of playing time compared to 11 for Norris Cole. His assist-to-turnover ratio was decent 4:1 and was +5 while on the court.
The refereeing was frustrating; way too many blown calls and "make up" calls for a Championship series.
It could be that I'm naive about situations like this, but I would really like to know where you would read about which schools have--and which schools do not have--volunteer monitors. Or is KU the only school in the country that has the monitor program?
I only mentioned two schools in my post, KU which I know for fact has the program and UNC which appears not to have one. If you listen to Coach Self radio show, every time academics are mentioned he makes it a point to talk about the monitoring that KU has in place with volunteers checking if student athletes are in class. Coach Self has indicated that this program is one of the reason why KU BBall has a perfect compliance record. Here is a link from the Wall Street Journal about the KU program...
If you read the article, it indicates that:
"Schools have long enlisted other students to help keep tabs on their scholarship athletes, who are naturally tempted to skip class from time to time to catch up on the sleep they miss practicing, training and traveling for far-away, late-night games. Because college professors rarely grade based on attendance and can't be bothered to call the roll in big lecture halls, athletic departments often pay students a modest hourly wage to do the dirty work instead. Maryland has been using student "class checkers" for decades; Texas A&M, Georgia and Wisconsin have invested in similar class-checking operations."
So it looks like KU is not the only school monitoring student. If UNC had similar program, a reasonable person would think that it would be the first thing mentioned by UNC, and yet, there is not single mention that I could find, which again, would lead a reasonable person to infer that no such program is in place at UNC, right?
Schools are even monitoring the use of social media by student athletes ( Remember that Twitter did not work too well for Tyshawn or Naadir), and you can even hire firms that will do that for the school...
Also, I don't necessarily agree with your statement "Where there is smoke there tends to be fire." I've seen cases where there has been billowing clouds--and even char--where there has been no fire at all.
It's easy to make assumptions. I'd suggest until you have more evidence to not make any comments.
First, I was careful not to use the traditional and more definitive "Where there is smoke, there is fire," instead, I wrote a more neutral/benign "Where there is smoke there tends to be fire." Right?
I am not sure how much you follow college sports but the academic scandal at UNC related to student athletes taking classes they did not have to attend, particularly in the African American Studies programs is huge and has been going on for a couple of years., and no, I did not make any assumptions, it is there for all to see...
Here is a link from ESPN...
Here is a link from the UNC alumni publication...
UNC alumni publication article... ↗
Here is a series of links from the Tar Heel Blog...
Even Congress is getting into the act...
Congress looking at NCAA handling of UNC academic fraud... ↗
If you read the links above and the myriad of stories on the subject, it appears that there is not only smoke but a veritable 5 alarm fire going on a UNC, wouldn't you agree?
If you read my post again, you will see that I was very careful not to accuse Coach William (whom I respect greatly) of any wrongdoing whatsoever, and I simply indicated that we might never know what really happened. However, if the scandal ends up implicating Coach Williams Student adviser, there is a fair chance that KU might also be called into question, since he is the same adviser Coach Williams had at KU and moved with him to UNC and the one Coach Williams has often mentioned as the "most important member of his staff" or words to that effect.
Again, I am not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing or making wild assumptions; everything I wrote is widely available with a quick Google search.
I understand that Svi has played in the professional Russian League, so he probably has a fair amount of experience playing against older, more physically developed players.
Having said that, it is very rare when a true freshman leads a team into the Championship; unfortunately for KU, it ran into one of those rare players...Carmelo, that is, although in all fairness, his team did have other very good players.
The situation at UNC is hard to figure out. While KU had and still has volunteer monitors that verify that every single athlete makes it to class, I don't believe the same is true at UNC, or at least I have not read anything about it.
A lot has been written about the African-American Studies program at UNC and its relationship with athletes not only in the basketball program but the football programs as well and most of it has not been good. Where there is smoke there tends to be fire.
I find it difficult to believe that McCants would make these allegations in a vacuum and without any documentation to back it up. Likewise, I would not expect any other players that received similar treatment to come out and say they did and in the process alienate the entire UNC fan base and look stupid to boot. The only way to find out what happened or did not happen would be to hook players to a lie detector and/or place them under oath in a court of law; none of these thing are likely to happen and I just don't see other players coming out and backing up McCants and incriminating themselves and jeopardizing any degree they might have obtained while at UNC, so, the reality is that we will never really know.
Coaches know (or should know) what goes on in their programs but some chose to remain ignorant (Calipari and Wooden come to mind) for future "plausible deniability." I am not saying this is what happened with Coach Williams but it has been a while since he left KU and his programs has been in trouble for similar reason before. Here is a 2 year link that gives a decent picture of what we are starting to see now, particularly in relation to the academic adviser that suddenly left...
I just hope that whatever happens there does not cast a cloud over the KU program as well.
On a related note, I noticed that many athletes across all schools are in the African American Studies programs. Absents a follow up graduate degree, what exactly does this program by itself prepares you for in the real world? More specifically, what would a college athlete that does not make it as a pro would do with an undergraduate degree in African American studies? HS teaching perhaps? I tried Goggling it and every noted person that is cited, invariably has a graduate degree in a different field. Just curious and I have no thoughts on the subject either way since I am really not familiar with it.
Not necessarily. I used him simply as an example of how difficult, or maybe I should say subjective, it can be to figure out at which position a player should be considered.
My bad about Wilt; I see what you are doing now. At first I though you were trying to select the KU- All star team, and in this context, once you mention Wilt for the center position, there is no need to look any further. I am curious what your follow up post will have.
Having said that, I pointed out some names, that in my opinion are not listed at the positions they played at KU or even the NBA; any thoughts on that? The Journal World did a series of stories on the best players at every position and some players were had to determine what was their true position or the position they played at KU; for example, do you consider EJ a PG or as SG? Other players, such as Marcus and Mario played one position at KU and a different position in the NBA..a whole thread can be dedicated to this topic alone.
You say it was your own experience. I just call b.s. on that. You didn't sample the crowd, test their knowledge, or have any understanding of their passion for the game. You simply referred, as many do, to the crowd that doesn't show the "enthusiasm" or passion that you think justifies "sitting courtside."
Your "yuppie" comment smacked of the standard garbage that we see today -- folks that happen be poor, or have less, or are disadvantaged in some manner are somehow more virtuous and meritorious in what they do. And that is exactly what you did there. That's what I referenced as crap. Now you say you don't begrudge people that do well --- if that's the case, then you might think about what you are saying. Perhaps you can then explain what you mean by yuppie couple, if that interpretation is not correct.
There you go again completely misrepresenting what I said. You have an arrogant and condescending attitude and believe that your assumptions are facts and someone else opinions, based on actual facts are "crap" or "b.s." or "garbage." I thought about refuting your post item by item but then it would really be a waste of my time and we would be right back at square one.
This is a sport forum after all where we all express our own opinions. On occasions I disagree withe other members or they disagree with me, and we post our opinions on the subject; sometime I came around to their way of thinking and sometime they do, and when we don't, we just agree to disagree and move on. You can check my posts and I don't believe you will find a single time when I called other member's opinions "crap" or "b.s." or "garbage."
There is no arguing with you and I will not descend to the level where I start calling yours or other forum member's opinions names.
@JayHawkFanToo said "It always pi-$-$-es me off to see yuppie couples with young kids, with little or no actual interest for the game, sitting court side and not showing the enthusiasm Jayhawk fans are known for...i hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality."
That "yuppie couple" may have both graduated from KU with advanced degrees, paid their dues, and happen to be pretty darn successful. And you're saying that a student has more right or more merit in where he/she sits? Or that the "yuppie couple" doesn't know KU hoops or the game?
That's just crap.
We all have opinion and that is exactly what I posted, I gave my opinion based on my own experience. As I indicated, I went to large number of games and sat on the fourth row behind the KU bench and I am intimately familiar with the people that sat at court side. A large number of them were using corporate seats, many were not even KU alumni and the majority sat there as it was a social event and not a college game, paid little attention to the game, did not get up when the game got exciting and the arena was rocking. Most of the younger kids did not even watch the game and were more interested in trips to the concession stands. This is even more prevalent now, and if you don't believe me just look at ta KU game on TV and you will see that part of the court side crowds stays sited when the arena is rocking and when they eventually get up, is more out of shame than a true desire to cheer the team. In all honesty, this not that different that what you see in NBA games where you have your rabid, die hard celebrity fans such as Spike Lee and Nicholson that are there for just about every game and the A-listers/celebrities that show up just for the publicity and to be seen. and look bored and do not pay much attention to the game...but then again, those are professional, for profit, and not college teams.
You wrote "I will also say that I get completely irritated at the assumptions." and yet all you wrote are assumptions of your own, while what I posted was based on actual, close and personal, real world experiences and not assumptions. I guess you actually did not get (even when you quoted it) the parts where I wrote..."I hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality."
You also wrote "Yea, I know, everyone hates folks with money and derogatorily refer to them as the "wine and cheese" crowd." Perhaps this reflects your own biases and prejudices and you should not assume everybody else feels the same way. I for one have worked hard and done rather well in life and have no reason to begrudge people that have done equally well or better.
I find it very disingenuous that you trumpet "your" own assumptions as facts, while calling the actual facts i posted "crap."...oh well, to each his own.
If the list is very last 30 years oriented, then Wilt should not be considered since he played close to 60 years ago, But if you are going to consider him, then why even list anyone else at center? Who could be even close to the best center of all time?
Also. you should by default consider all players that have been selected Player of the year, were 1st or second team All-America or have their Jersey retired; Gooden meets the criteria and should be definitely considered as should Wayne Simien,
Collison and LaFrentz both played PF and Center and did not play SF. Also, although technically listed as guards, Rush and Wiggins played SF at KU. Hinrich played some PG but he played primarily SG and one season SF.
The seats behind the KU bench have had huge price tag for while now. A friend of mine, and former Dean of one of the bigger schools at KU and Williams Fund contributor, held a pair of tickets on the fourth row behind the KU bench. When Lew Perkins went to the "point" system. he was told it would cost him $40K per ticket to get "caught up" enough to keep the seats and an ongoing $6K-$8K per year, in addition to the actual cost of the tickets, to keep them; needless to say he declined the offer and was moved to a muck less desirable location.
Essentially all desirable court side seats come with huge price tag and have been that way for while now and they are purchases mostly by corporations. It always pi-$-$-es me off to see yuppie couples with young kids, with little or no actual interest for the game, sitting court side and not showing the enthusiasm Jayhawk fans are known for...i hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality.
I guess you missed the memo....college sports are all about money.
This is juts following the national trend of getting more money from your better seats. If the AD is to be believed, the number of tickets available to students will not decrease and they will actually play less for the package.
Absolutely agree on Selby. He tore it up in the Summer League and was co-MVP with none other than Lillard and he played well in the D-League as well and look at how their careers have gone in opposite directions,
Mario had the "perfect storm" situation in a good way while Selby ad the "perfect storm" in the opposite direction. He is still young and if he can get a decent agent and land in a good situation, he can still log some time in the League.
@jaybate 1.0
I don't get the hatred for Coach Miller. In his three years as Assistant HC at Xavier they went to the to the NCAA 3 times:
NCAA 2nd round
NCAA 2nd round
NCAA Elite 8
In his four years as Head Coach at Xavier Coach Miller took them to the NCAA 4 times:
NCAA 1st round
NCAA 2nd round
NCAA Elite 8
NCAA Sweet 16
This is almost identical to the record Bill Self had at Illinois:
NCAA Elite 8
NCAA Sweet 16
NCAA 2nd round
...and a better record than 98% of coaches in college BBall, and he did it with Xavier, not an Elite program such as KU or Duke or UK or even Illinois. At the time, Miller was considered one of the top up and coming coaches and was chosen by Arizona where he has done rather well.
His record obviously has made him attractive to top prospects as shown by the highly ranked classes he has brought to Arizona.
Here is a good take on Coach Self's take on the shorter clock...
Lefty Gomez famously said...I rather to be lucky than good.
Chalmers was extremely lucky that he landed at the right position, at the right place and at the right time. Many more talented players enter the NBA under different circumstances and, despite their talent, do not stay in the League long. Look at Xavier Henry; no question the man has talent but he landed at dysfunctional Memphis and then was traded to New Orleans. It is s only after he joined the Lakers, almost on a fluke, that he started to show his true potential; had he not gotten picked up by the Lakers last season, he most; likely would be out of the League.by now.
Chalmers is in the perfect spot. As PGs go, he is middle of the road, not among elite but not among the bottom feeders either. He might go to another team and become a superstar, since he is an above average defender and capable of scoring when needed; on the other hand, he might have to sit behind a more talented player and get only scrap minutes and quickly fade away into oblivion.
If the big three stay put in Miami, his best shot is to stay put as he is a proven commodity in the system and an integral part of the team. Wade, who plays a fair amount of PG as does LeBron, has one or maybe two years left in the League and there is no reason why Chalmers could not take his place. If the big three part ways, then there is as good chance that Miami will go on a rebuilding mode and who knows what will happen then.
I have seen so many people with good jobs leave for what they perceive to be greener pastures only to find out that the new position is more like a California wild fire than the green pasture they envisioned. I have also seen the same thing happen in sports where players in good situations move to another team only to run into bad situations and never recover. Hopefully Chalmers has good advisers that will lead him to the right, long term situation for him.
I think that is mostly in the past and also, it is not unusual for veteran superstars to disrespect newbies. Chalmers has a good thing going in Miami. He is the fourth highest paid player in the team and other that he big three, only Hasslem makes more and not by much and all the rest make considerably less; in comparison Beasley makes only $800K per year. Mario is in the third year of a 3 year contract that pays him $4M per year. With the top 3 taking close to $20M per year a piece, there is not much money left without incurring the luxury tax.
I think your analysis is spot on. I don't know if Thon has a mindset of how he wants to play in college and it might conflict with the way Coach Self routinely utilizes bigs. Remember Padget did not want to play with is back to the basket and left for Louisville. Thon is in all likelihood a one and done player and if hes is half as good as Durant was as a freshman, then I would take him in a heartbeat and find a way to use his talent.
Ict, I started writing my post a while ago and got sidetracked by a phone call. By the time I posted it, I noticed that you had written basically the same thing about Barkley.
The height combined with size is a big argument. You mention Barkley, but he is a "one of a kind" player at that position and not the typical PF. Barkley is listed at anywhere between 6'-4" and 6'-6", where Perry is listed at KU at 6'-8" which means he is closer to 6'-6 and at least 30 pounds lighter than Barkley. This is the equivalent of saying that Calvin Murphy (5'-9" ) , one of the better PGs of all time or Spud Webb (5'-7" ) - he won the NBA slam dunk competition - were typical PGs, they were not. Look at the perhaps the three top PF of all time, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone and Dirk Nowitzki; Duncan and Nowitzki are both are right around 7 feet and Malone at 6'-10" and all are at around 250 pounds...or look at the starting PFs for the last 4 teams in the NBA post season, SA- Duncan, OKC - Ibaka, Ind. - West, Miami - Bosch. they are all at least 6'-10 and at least 235 pounds; these are the typical PFs in the NBA, not Barkley.
If Perry makes to the NBA, he will have to play the SF; he is just not big/tall enough to play PF. He has a decent 3-point shot and if he continues to develop it, there is no reason why he could not be an effective 3 in the NBA.
Playground play is overrated and the downside is greater than the upside. I have heard lots of coaches indicate that they spend the first 3 month of practice getting playground players to rid themselves of all the bad habits they acquired and to learn to play team basketball the right way. This is why coaches will not allow players to play ion summer leagues. Perry Ellis would be better served playing against Michelson, Lucas, Traylor and other former KU players (including NBA) that routinely spend time in Lawrence during the summer.
Just my opinion.
From what I have read so far, it appears the Thon has indicated that there are two school he wants to visit most of all, UK and UCLA, so my first impression is that the likes the perks and exposure and the b_ s_ the squid sells at UK, or the bright lights of celebrity laden LA; neither bodes well for KU. The ace up the sleeve for KU is the success Embiid had, particularly if he goes #1 in the draft.
There are huge two differences between Rupp Arena and AFH that I will guess most people are not aware.
Location - Many people don't know that Rupp arena is located off campus and is part of a big complex that involves a convention center and hotels. The upgrade contemplated for Rupp was designed to make the entire area a bigger destination, along the lines of what the Power and Light district is in Kansas City, and hence the huge cost. A project of this type cannot be built around AFH. Also the city of Lexington has a population of over 300k while Lawrence is under 100K, so the type of development they can build, and more importantly support, are completely different.
Ownership - Even less people know that Rupp Arena is not owned by the University of Kentucky and they are simply a tenant with lease due to expire in about 3-4 years. This is the main reason why the UK president does not seem interested in committing school money to a project that is not owned by the school and will likely result in higher lease fees in the future, while providing zero benefit o the school. Yes, the surrounding area would be much nicer but the beneficiaries would be the private business in the area and not UK. The arena itself would not change that much and UK already sells out regularly. KU, on the other hand, owns AFH and any improvements would have to be financed by the school (and Athletic Program) and any additional revenue would directly benefit the program.
In this particular situation it is not an arms race between UK and KU since UK "leases" the biggest college arena in the country and KU "owns" the most storied and historically significant in college basketball, and the facilities are located in quite different size markets.
We have one spot open for the 2014 class. If Selden, Oubre and Alexander move to the NBA, then we will have at least 3 spots fro the 2015 class plus the one we have this year, provided it goes unfilled.
By the way, Indiana offered scholarships to Thon AND his 6'-10" brother Matur (class 2017).
Let's not forget the "Ramson Rambler" Nolan Cromwell, perhaps the best all-around athlete ever to play football at KU.
Let me start by saying the I like Norm Roberts and I believe he is a great coach; however, I just don't think he is a great "HEAD" coach.
He has been a head coach for 10 seasons, 4 years at Queens College and 6 years at St. John's. While at Queens College, his record was 24-84 and 15-65 in conference play. At St John's his record was 81-101 and 32-70 in conference. His only two season with winning records were 2006-07 with a record of 16-15 and 2009-10 with a record of 17-16, both winning season were by the smallest of margins. In 10 years as Head Coach he has never produced a winning conference record in any one year.
As comparison, the previous two coaches at St. Johns that coached at least one full season are :
Fran Fraschilla 1996-98 57-36
Mike Jarvis 1998-2003 66-60
The coach that followed Roberts, Steve Lavin has a 71-60 record so far, even when he was absent part of the time due to health issues.
There is no question that Roberts inherited a program at St. John's that was in disarray and in probation, but all the sanctions were essentially gone by 2006 and all coach Roberts could muster in his last two season were first round loses in the CBI and NIT.
The only coach in St. John's storied programs with a worse record is J.Chesnut 1907-08 who had a record of 4-8.
We have 10 years of head coaching experience to look at and the information above would seem to indicate that as good as we believe coach Roberts is, he is the classic example of the Peter's principle, i.e. once he gets to be a head coach he reaches his level of incompetence and he is no longer effective.
In order to be considered for the head coaching position at KU he would have to show several years of running a mid to large Division I program at a high level, something that does not seem to be in the cards. Coach Dooley - who had a 57-52 record in 4 years as head coach at East Carolina before joining KU - was chosen over Roberts for the smaller Florida Gulf Coast program. Again, I just don't see Coach Roberts as a candidate to replace Coach Self if he decides to retire any time in the foreseeable future; the most likely scenario is that he would go with Self if he moves to the NBA or hopefully stay at KU as an assistant, something less likely to happen since Nikko graduated.
That would be an interesting dilemma for him. In the end it would depend on who is coaching WSU and well they are doing. Don't forget that WSU begged off the arrangement since they were getting pounded on a regular basis.
I agree with everything you mentioned. I was disappointed when Stevens left for the NBA since I was hoping he would be KU's coach after Bill Self retired. He has the attributes I look in a coach for KU, he is extremely talented,, uses technology extensively, runs a clean program and he is young enough that he cold be at KU a long time. If he did what he did at "small time" Butler with the players he had, think of what he could do at "elite" KU with the players he would recruit. There is always hope that much like Pitino, he will get tired of the NBA and come back to an elite college program.
As far as Marshall, there is no question that many KU fans do not like him since he dared challenge KU's monopoly, and rightly or wrongly we consider WSU below a "little Sister" level (that would be KSU), but more that of an illegitimate cousin than no one wants to acknowledge. Marshall can coach, he has proven that much and he has had success with players that were not highly recruited or recruited at all. He is right now one of the hotter names in coaching (maybe second only to Ollie) and he is mentioned for every important opening; I cannot imagine KU not looking at him if the position becomes available. Obviously he would have many fences to mend but he could be very successful at KU.
Never say never. Marshall can flat out coach and run a clean program and is the type of coach KU likes...Jayhawk related comments notwithstanding.
Many very good assistant coaches are not cut out to be head coaches and they are better off as assistant coaches. I think Roberts may fall in that category. Jeff Capel is a perfect example; he is a good assistant coach and recruiter but not so good as head coach and I don't believe he will be considered, other than casually, st Duke when Coach K retires.
When coach Self retires, the list will certainly include the top active college coaches and a few NBA coaches as well; after all, KU is a prime destination. Vaughn certainly would be considered, and if Brad Stevens has had enough of the NBA by then, I hope he is considered as well.
Turgeon had the misfortune )or bad judgment) of taking the Maryland job, a program with many problems and transitioning from the ACC to the Big 10, a situation that created a lot of turnover in the program. If he can get the Maryland program going and make it a contender in the Big 10, then he might insert himself back into the conversation, but at this time I agree with you, he is not a viable candidate for KU.
BTW, Manning is at Wake Forest not Maryland...unless something happened recently that I am not aware of.
I respectfully disagree with your statement that Tharpe was our weakest link going into next season. Tharpe played brilliantly at times during last season and won a few games for KU. As I understand, he injured his hand towards the end of the season and play the final games and post-season with an injured hand, something that likely affected his shooting and his ability to handle the ball.
Going into the next season, he would have been our most experience guard and most likely the starter; don't forget that Coach Self tried starting Mason and did not work out all that well. There is no reason to think that over the summer he could not have corrected the issues he had last season and come back as a smarter, improved player.
Earlier in my career I gave up a huge opportunity that would have resulted in a much better future but I passed on it so I could be closer to my (at the time) young children; I can understand his desire to be close to his daughter, particularly if she has a health issue, this is after all what good parents do, and if this is the main reason for his transfer, then I have even more respect for him.
Perhaps "overseas" will not bring Tharpe close to his daughter but i will surely provide income that is likely needed, particularly in view of her health issues. Having said that, I hope he does the smart thing and finishes his degree, since it might end up being of more use and for a longer time that what his BBall career will likely last.
I was referring to coaches in the last 20 years or roughly what the article I linked cites. Most of the coaches you mentioned are from a long time ago and the coaching game and the coaching business, both at the college and NBA level, has changed a great deal since then; using coaches whose experience was that long ago is not representative of current conditions.
Also, don't forget that Larry Brown started coaching in the old ABA and then moved to college and then back to the NBA, so it not fair to say that he is a college coach that moved to the NBA; actually, it is the other way around. You can always mention Dick Vitale that coached High School, College and the NBA and was somewhat successful, but then again, and just like the others, it was a long time ago.
As far as who will succeed Coach K, I m pretty sure it will not be Capel; he is a textbook example of the Peter's principle. He is a good assistant coach but a complete bust as head coach. If I were a betting man, I would say that Dawkins and Amaker would be the leading candidates. Both have had recent success but they did not do well initially. Wojciechowski and Hurley do not have much experiencing and they have not had the chance to show what the can do; maybe by the time the position is actually available they will have better resumes
I actually prefer that he said what he did instead of promising he will stay and then bolting for another school or the NBA. He left Florida before and came back a few days later when he realized the difference between coaching in college, where he had all the authority, absolute power and the respect of players, and the NBA, where he has little or no control over personnel, the players are prima donas that make more money than he does and if they get mad enough they can get you fired,
In general, the more successful NBA coaches cut their teeth in the NBA as assistants before becoming head coaches. College coaches that moved to the NBA, in general have not had success. Every time there is a vacancy in the NBA, a college coach name is mentioned and most every time a coach is selected from another NBA team or from a list of former NBA coaches. Coaching in the NBA is quite different (and with much less job security) than coaching college and I believe most college coaches know this and stay in college. I seriously doubt Donovan will leave Florida, where he has a very good gig going on.
Here is an article with a summary of college coaches that went to the NBA (there is not that many) and the success, or lack thereof, they had there; it is eye opening as it includes big names such as Pitino and Calipari.
Again, I HAVE NOT commented on the risk of European players versus American players at large, so stop bringing this straw man argument.
I simply compared two players, Svi (a true NBA prospect) and Papapetreu (NOT an NBA prospect) and clearly and specifically pointed out the differences between them. IMHO, (that mean in "MY" humble opinion), Svi is not as big of a risk as another European player such as Papapetreu. We have many American players that have signed with KU and did not play a single official game (Doyle); how is that for a risk? How about Kanter, another European true NBA prospect? He did not bolt for Europe even when he was told he could not play at UK; he stayed and now he is getting a NBA paycheck..
Now, if you really want to extend the concept based on the facts at hand...European players that "ARE TRUE" NBA prospects (such as Svi) are more likely TO STAY here and pursue the NBA (and the big paycheck) instead of going back to Europe and delaying the payoff. European players that "ARE NOT TRUE" NBA prospects (such as Papapetreu) are more likely TO GO BACK to the Euro Leagues, since that is their final destination anyway and makes no sense playing college for no pay when they can go back to Europe and get started with their careers.
You cannot lump all European players in one group since their level of skill will influence the outcome. Looking at all European players as a group is the equivalent of saying that a 5-star top 5 American High School player (say Wiggins) has the same chance of staying at KU for 4 years than an low or unranked player (say Mason); the answer is clearly no.
It is really that simple; I am not sure what part is tripping you.
I will guess that if the parent(s) has some marketable skills, he/she can be offered a position without raising red flags withe the NCAA. However, if the parent(s? has no marketable skills, it would raise all kinds of red flags id he/she is offered a position other than a minimum wage position. Some will take any position, such as Cole Aldrich father (a sheet metal worker) that worked as welder and janitor while living in Lawrence, some others prefer not to take menial jobs and just bide their time waiting for the kid's big payday; not a good thing IMHO.
Some as Angel Morris move to town, get a job and become the adopted mother for many players. She was truly a blessing for the team, particularly TRob ,who lost his mom and she was there for him.
Again, you are misrepresenting what I said. I did not "attack" the idea that here is more risk taking European players. In fact I did not address the subject of taking European players at large, other than to indicate that Rubio's situation was a "wake up call" to all European, true NBA prospects; in fact, Enes Kanter, a true NBA prospect heeded the warning and chose to sit one year here rather than go back to Europe and a contract that would delay his entry to the NBA, right?. I simple addressed two individuals, Svi and Papapetru, and pointed out the differences between the two situations and my conclusion was that Papapetru would end up in Europe anyway, right? But Svi, by virtue of his much higher NBA potential was indeed a much lesser risk of bolting back to Europe, right?
Again, I did not say that European players are more or less likely to bolt; it depend on the individual circumstances, and in Svi's case, I feel pretty confident that if he is as good as advertised he will stay 2 years, and if he is not, he may or may not go back to Europe, in which case it would not make that much of a difference as far as KU is concerned, right?
I believe you have right. I have no doubt he has offers to play in Europe but he is being smart and going for a chance to play in the NBA where the big money really is.
The Maloofs no longer own the Kings. The team was sold in May, 2013 to Silicon Valley entrepreneur Vivek Ranadivé, who promptly installed a new management team; McLemore was the first player select by the new management team and as such, they have a vested interest in his success..