I agree! We are prisoners of the moment and because this core has frustrated us so much, Perry gets over looked.
That man can do it all on the offensive end. Post up? Check. Face up? Check. Dribble? Check. Jump and run? Check
Marcus Morris used his body better to seal and had a better turn around fade away than Perry. But Ellis shoots, dribbles, faster, jumps higher, and can face up better.
@Bwag we are in agreement. Self screwing up PT isn't the issue but the suspension. It's going about it in a disrespectful way.
@DoubleDD I think we agree on most points. But where we differ is when you say when you say certain lines are crossed, all bets are off. I just don't believe two 2nd round losses means you fire a future HOF coach.
But in the end, we all desire for KU to be great.
@DoubleDD I have not once thought that your intentions are to offend me and I would assume you'd think I was crazy if our opinions are opposites.
But I have to reintegrate, I do not think we should become "blind Self robots" like I said in my post posts. And again, I disagree with Self aspects (mainly his terrible love affair with Jamari and Lucas), but to call for his job is extreme. He is an amazing coach that has not done well with this current core group of players (Selden, Mason, Ellis, Lucas, and Jamari).
But is that grounds to fire him?
@DoubleDD I know I said I am taking a break but you deserve a response so here you go. lol
"Everybody is entitled to their opinion". Yes. You are correct. Even if it is lunacy.
"I really don't see the mob mentality yet..." You, @AsadZ @jayballer54 and many others have said everything BUT "Self has to go".
"I'm not sure questioning BS makes me a hypocrite." You are correct. I question the way his choices of not playing Mickelson and Bragg as well. I have stated many times that Jamari should not play more than 10-15 minutes a game. The hypocrisy is when you posters state they don't care about the season and Big 12 but are now calling for Self to move on because he lost in something you supposedly don't care much about.
"So why would any sane person or fan believe hey were going to play like we did last year, but het the outcome will be different this year. **because it is impossible to tell how the team gels and what team leaders step up. Most of the 2008 NC year, their offense was terrible on the eyes. Beating way inferior teams by single digits and losing 2 out of 3 mid season. That season, we moaned "Bench Robinson and play Collins". Believe it or not, Self is the same dude. The only difference is Davidson missed that final 3 to win the game. Fast forward a season a couple seasons, and we complained that Self lost his recruiting touch because he wasn't signing high profile players. Then we complained that we are signing these high profile recruits that don't care about the program. We are so stinking fickle!
My posts have been consistent throughout. Self has screwed up with his PT rotation IMHO. He has made a mule look like a submissive goat. Got it. But to call for a new coach 3 years removed from one of the best coaching jobs in history is overdramatic (even though I would rather use a more crude word to describe it).
There is a way to go about talking about playing time.
Go into his office, have a personal discussion on what needs to happen to get more playing time. Openly disrespecting the coach in front of players means lack a maturity.
I assume most of you read the book about past players and what they said about their time at KU under Self. Players were open and honest about what went on. Self is not a stranger to managing personalities.
A message had to be sent that HE is the one that manages PT. Be an adult about it. I am all for Self's suspension.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills or something! Self misplays his players for two years and we want him gone?!?! This is absolute madness!!
Just so I get this straight, the objective is making a final four and having a shot for a NC, correct? And we have stated over and over that we could care less about 30 wins or a Big 12 title, only the tournament. If you agree with me so far, then you are being an absolute hypocrite if you think Self needs to go after losing the SECOND game of the year!
I wonder what would happen if Self takes 3rd this year in the conference. What would you guys say then? End up as a 5th seed? You guys might have an aneurysm!
You say you don't mind losing during the season if we can have more tourney success, and go ape s*** when we do and we don't know the end result yet!
I know I'm not a crucial poster, and it won't effect anyone here if I stop posting. But I will have to break a nice, long break from this site. I always came here to learn from people more knowledgable than myself. But this mob mentality and illogical posting that KU needs to move on from Self is infuriating.
But in the end, Rock Chalk.
@DoubleDD Oh it HAS to go on Self. Like I said earlier, I agree with almost everything said against Self. I only worry we are putting Self, one of the best (if not the best) coaches in Kansas history on the hot seat because of two seasons. Three years removed from one of the best coaching jobs in history and we are rushing in with pitch forks and torches.
The fact people honestly think KU would be better without Self is absolutely absurd.
MSU makes it to the Final 4 in 2005. Then through 06-08 they lose in the 1st round, 2nd round, and sweet 16.
Were people calling for Izzo's head? If so, they should be ashamed now.
I have said this before and I'll say it again. We are in for a rude awakening when Self leaves. We are spoiled little brats (including myself) who throw fits when we don't make a final 4.
@KUinLA You honestly don't think those schools you mentioned wouldn't trade places with KU in a heart beat? Those school fall in and out of revelency, but KU is always in the running.
@DoubleDD Your headline did not give away the content of the topic. If I would have known, I would have skipped it like I have the other ones.
But the question still remains. Why start another bash Self thread when you could have vented on the 10 out there?
Don't get me wrong, I have agreed with almost all the points made against Self and was a part of the crowd screaming during the game when Bragg and Mickelson inexplicably went M.I.A.
Although I feel we are developing a strong mob mentality when the continually bashing of our HOF coach is all we talk about after TWO early exits.
In your opinion, should Self actually be on the hot seat?
Sigh. Why post yet another topic when you could have chosen from the plethora of threads bashing Self? Everything you said has been repeated over and over.
I feel the term beating a dead horse isn't quite strong enough for this situation.
Another thread bashing Self? We get it. We do not agree with how Self distributes PT. He sticks to his system rather than playing to what kind of players he has. That has been well documented.
I'm not suggesting we become Self robots and we must agree with his choices. There have been other theads that go in depth about how Self has messed up. But the way people are talkin, you would think that the second most successful coach in KU history and the best winning percentage is on the hot seat. For goodness sakes, we are 3 years removed from making the National Championship!
If you want him gone, then say so. But we are in for a rude awaking when this future HOF coach leaves and we don't hire a another HOF coach for the 4th time in a row.
@jaybate-1.0 purposed an interesting question awhile ago. He asked if anyone on the current Kansas roster could compete for playing time for the 2008 national championship squad. If we can hope for a National Championship this year, then the 2008 squad is a nice measuring stick.
My first instinct was gloom as many of you commented. But I feel that was an unfair assessment. We have immortalized the 2008 team as a well oiled machine that man handled UNC in the Final Four.
I have gone back and looked at Ljworld, Cjonline, and the KCstar. I read articles and their comments at the beginning and middle of the season. What I can say is that a lot of us (including myself) did not view this team as a GREAT team. I also watched some games and was surprised at how bad we looked during that season. Here is what our view of the players are now compared to what I felt/witnessed others viewed during the season. (DISCLAIMER: I am not saying ALL of you felt this way, but these views were not unpopular.)
Brandon Rush:
Now: The ultimate do-it-all player. The boy could shoot the 3, put it on the floor, lock down their best player, and had a selfless personality.
Then: A lockdown defender and we always felt good when he shot it. But he disappears for long stretches and never shows fire. He needs to take over and show that he cares.
Mario Chalmers:
Now: Lockdown defender, a ballhawk, excellent shooter and comes up big time when we need it the most.
Then: Ballhawk and great shooter. But he takes to many chances on defense and gets burned because of it. He should be more of a distributer at times and has trouble finishing contested shots in the lane.
Russel Robinson:
Now: The ultimate competitor. Tough as nails. He stops their offense from getting where they want to be the moment they cross half court. Great leader.
Then: Lock down defender and takes care of the ball. But he cannot score to save his life! Is he pouting? Put in Collins!!!
Darrell Auther:
Now: Supremely talented. Scores with his back to the basketball and has a face up game. Big enough to get rebounds and quick enough to get by most people his same size.
Then: Lots of potential and a good all around scorer. But he disappears and is soft. Gets out rebounded by smaller players.
Darnell Jackson:
Now: A tough, gritty big man. He is everything Self loves about his post players. Scores nicely but is a great big man passer and rebounder.
Then: I actually couldn't find a lot of negatives mid season. He pretty much is what we remember him to be. Even though he wasn't a great scorer. But if we can remember back to before the season, not a lot of people expected him to be more than another body.
Sasha Kaun:
Now: Came in and couldn't dribble a basketball. Developed into a tough player who can rebound, pull off the occasional hook, but was an ally-oop master!
Then: Below average offensive player but was big and athletic. And stop freaking traveling!
Sherron Collins:
Now: Spark plug off the bench. A powerful, tough player that could finish in traffic and hit the three.
Then: Spark plug off the bench but is out of control.
2008 Squad as a Whole:
Now: What a team! One of the best of all time! Amazing defense, hardened, battle tested, perfect mixture of shooters and slashers to compliment the inside-out game Self loves.
Then: Great perimeter defense and mature team that you can't count out. But become flat on offense and seem robotic at times. We would love this team if Julian Wright didn't declare early. Can you imagine what we would look like having Wright in there!?
I know I over generalized and simplified the opinions of each player, but I didn't want it to be longer than what it already is. These qualities even came out during that remarkable comeback KU made on Memphis.
Collins- Steals the inbounds pass, then slips and falls out of bounce to give memphis another shot to tie the game in overtime.
Auther- Swishes that big time long 2 when we needed a quick basket, then gets pushed in to give up a crucial offensive rebound on a missed free throw.
Chalmers- KU trying to make a comeback and puts up a layup only to get block when he could have dished it to a wide open wing for the 3, then the Mario Miracle happens.
Kaun: A momentum changing ally-oop but travels twice.
I could go on and on with examples. The point is the 2008 teams had flaws. Those flaws were exposed at times. But their strengths were better than the opposing teams strengths. Lets compare the 2008 team with reality and not the white horse riding off in the sunset.
As for this years squad, it doesn't have the lock down D that the National Championship team had. But can they develop a strength to beat other teams strengths? I believe this is a much better shooting team than the 2008 squad. We didn't have someone with the versatility Ellis, we have 10 players deep that can play and in 08, we had 8 (including Cole), and God willing, we didn't have anyone like Cheick.
Can Selden be a consistent 12-15 point scorer? Will Self let the 3 loose? And for the love of God, will Self bench Jamari!? (somewhat jokingly)
This year has too many question marks to say they can't achieve great things. Let them set the bar, not us with an arbitrary ceiling that makes the 08 team pee gold.
If Traylor is starting plays more than 20 minutes, we are in trouble. Give me Ellis' versatility, Mickelson's length, and Bragg's passing. We don't have room a post player to get 25 minutes and rack up 7 points and 3 boards while being late on defensive rotations.
Bring him in, gain momentum with a dunk or block. That is all.
@Crimsonorblue22 The way the Heat used him as their whipping boy always infuriated me. If he committed a turnover, you'd either have Bosh yell at him, James death stare, or Wade scream during a timeout. If anyone else did, all they had to do was pat their chest and mouth "my bad".
I understand treating an over zealous rookie like that. But Chalmers was a 5 year vet getting treated like that. How can anyone be expected to be productive when you're in that environment?
@hawkmoon2020 What I find humorous/hypocritical is that you assume blame on the republicans and push our own agenda in the following comments,
If you want to stick to basketball, awesome. But don't stick to a passive aggressive comment how another conservative makes a point and you simply want to talk basketball while making a political statement. Stop it.
Talk politics. Talk basketball. But taking the "high road" then taking a job at a political party seems a bit weird, \
Can anyone explain the difference between Tacko's situation and Diallo's?
@SoftballDad2011 You were correct! My apologies!
"...it should be the hatred of the Islamic State and everything they stand for."
I have a problem with statement. If it were changed to ISIS or radical Islam, I would agree. Lets not lump all of Islam with this group that uses violence to further it's agenda.
Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity, Israel, the U.S. government and many others has it's black eyes as well. Lets not generalize an entire region into these kind of acts. How would Baptists feel if we looked at them through the lens of the Phelps?
But as others have said, maybe in the general discussion? I love reading about Kansas Basketball here.
@SoftballDad2011 it doesn't appear to be on ESPN3 when I looked.
Anyone one know whose carrying the game?
There is always a bond developed between the fans and the core players who stick around long enough to not transfer/go pro. Whether it's Taylor, Robinson, Withey, and Relaford. Sherron and Cole. The whole 2008 gang and so on. And this core group is no different. I appreciate everything Selden, Madon, Ellis, BG, and so on. But if we flame out again without an identity, I am ready to start building with another core and seeing this pass.
It's not because they have simply lost early. And even though the Morris twins were studs, their trash talking and dirty plays got old. I was ready when they left as well.
It's the fact that we have not had a true identity in awhile. We aren't an inside out team, we don't lock down th paint, we can't hang our hats on keep people in front of us, it isn't toughness, and even though it could be shooting, I feel like we all realize that simply won't happen.
Again, I love the players and I am glad they are Jayhawks. I just am tired of going into the tournament and not being sure that we are better than any team we play in one aspect.
I have been trying not to comment on the situation. You guys do a far better job and we don't really know what's being said behind close doors. But asking for 6th grade transcripts!? I am at a loss for words.
"Yahoo Sports says if the NCAA does not declare Diallo eligible today, Jackson will be given clearance to use KU’s case information and battle for a final decision."
I hope this is true. Put the NCAA on the hot seat and open the closed doors they have been hiding behind.
@JRyman Oh we have definitely been spoiled! I think we saw it last year when we didn't have a dominate back to the basket big.
But I am talking about what we have available. And with our current big situation, I don't understand why Traylor should be playing. Not to mention if Diallo gets a partial qualifier and can play the second half of the season!
@drgnslayr I agree on Lucas. He is the only one who seals. And even if he doesn't dominate the boards, he is still significantly better at rebounding than Traylor and is at defending the post.
@JRyman I do see some benefits with Traylor. In the past, he has provided a momentum changing block or dunk. It is just tough to see a program like Kansas play a big man who can't score and doesn't rebound 20 minutes a game. You won't see very many final four teams have a guy like Traylor play significant minutes.
In your opinion, what does he excel in? Not scoring, DEFINITELY not rebounding, not post defense. Maybe defense on a stretch four? Even if that's the case, he is at most a situational player. Not a rotation player.
I was still on his bandwagon last year. Hoping that his redshirt junior year, he could transform into a Kevin Young type. But he isn't half the player Young was.
For the life of me, I cannot see why Traylor will see more than 5 minutes a game. He is easily our worst big.
Great story and glad he is a Jayhawk. I just wish Self would split his PT on more than just what he feels comfortable with.
I would like to see the playing time split up like this:
Ellis- 32
Mickelson- 24
Bragg-18
Lucus- 5
Taylor should only be in as an emergency guy or to send a message to someone if they aren't playing hard.
Later in the season, Bragg's should go up and reduces the time of Mickelson. But as you can see, I am not a fan of Traylor's game.
@SoftballDad2011 I believe @HighEliteMajor made an excellent point when talking about recruiting Diallo with concerns of eligibility. If we stayed away from other, slightly lower recruits in hopes to sign Diallo, then it's understandable. But Self signed him late after a couple swing and misses. We had scholarships available so it was well worth the risk.
Cheick has to leave after this season regardless. When you're a lotto, it wouldn't be a smart business decision to leave. Look at Embiid, his heart said he wanted to stay but the smart move was to go pro. Now he has his guaranteed millions but might not truly play a game. If he stays, he falls off the draft boards because of his injury and loses a ton of paychecks.
Bmac was a different situation. He might have been drafted in the second round without a guaranteed contract. The smart business decision was for him to stay another year. You can't compare the two.
I'm not saying he is great, but no way should he have a "hot seat". Give the man some time!
Does anyone know if he will be able to play in Late Night on Friday?
@Crimsonorblue22 I agree! Diallo will be crucial for Ellis. It will be tough to double with two bigs with a Robinson like player who dunks everything. If Diallo can be a 10 and 10 guy, with eletricifying plays to switch momentum, he will be a success and going in the lotto!
@wrwlumpy Hahahaha stop it! The coach K one had my crying!!!
Holy cow. Is this a massive backslide we see our Royals in, or are they cruising?
@HighEliteMajor I'm not sure if Traylor's biggest improvement needs to be the video room.
I could be wrong, but I witnessed Traylor as slashing when he needs to slash, being in the open spot of a zone, and passing off to other bigs.
His biggest weakness is learning the basics of angles, footwork, and mid range game. Which is scary because if he does not have it now, when will he develope it? Mickelson seems to have more skills, but does not help on defense and rotate to get the right angles.
Or maybe, as you have said repeatedly in the past, Self is simply more comfortable with Traylor and there is almost nothing Hunter can do to dislodge such an idea.
@JayHawkFanToo I appreciate the reply! My simpleton tendency seems to be confused on what exactly your inscription means. Will his position be able to develope Mason and Graham?
As @REHawk stated, no on court coaching. Does that mean he can't help tutor the PGs during practice or he can't help Self during in-game strategies?
@Lulufulu thanks for the info! I was dying to know his position was.. What will his duties as assistant director student athletes Intel? Will he be able to work one on one or Is he subject to washring jocks this year?
Se
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2015/sep/10/miles-named-ku-basketball-staff/?mens_basketball ↗
This is exciting stuff! The article doesn't say what exactly Miles' position on the staff is or what he will be doing. Does anyone have any more info or expectations?
Anyway, I am excited that Miles will be able to work with Mason. Best case scenario is Miles will be able to develop PGs like Manning did big men.
There has been some interesting points lately about Howard. They have been scattered through threads so I figured to make it a it's own thread.
Howard came to Kansas as an excellent recruiter, specifically in the Illinois/Chicago area. He didn't bring much else as far as Xs and Os are concerned.
Since he has been here, he has nabbed one premier recruit in Alexander and has fallen short on many other recruits. I realize we are dealing with 17 year olds and their decisions are unpredictable. To put the blame solely on Howard might be unfair, but you can't ignore his lack luster results.
Top that off with the not informing Self on the drug use, does he have a future at KU? How much longer will he be here? And what does he bring to the table?
They are in the NBA. But high profile guys to aspire to be a Rush or Henry who sits the bench. They want to be at least a starter or a valued player.
As much as I love Self, he turns s J.R. And Bmac into a spot up 3 point shooter. They want to be a playmaker and in an offense that gives them freedom.
Why a back to the basket big doesn't go to KU is beyond me though. If you have the ability to get your points from the block, you can guarantee a plethora of opprotunities to show what you have.
I don't blame a wing not coming to Kansas. When looking at the 3 position as KU, they turn into a straight line driver and spot up 3 point shooter. Outside of Wiggins or Rush, can you name a 3 from KU that wasn't very one dimensional?
@HighEliteMajor @JayHawkFanToo Well I am just happy that you are both more informed than I and I can see both sides of an issue of two knowledgeable people!
Some may consider this argument not a good thing. But I enjoy reading such in-depth comments by both of you. Keep it up!
@RockkChalkk Oh, I must have misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up!
So true! We need something in the recruiting world to give us something to talk about.
I proudly watch every game because I am ignorant enough to think we have a chance. But then promptly turn it off at halftime when it's 28-0 and we have gotten only one first down.
@RockkChalkk From what I've read, it appears to be mandatory for KU basketball players. Players have had to sit out a game for skipping it.
@ParisHawk Very simple. Attending class is expected from all students. Tutoring isn't expected for the regular student but it's mandatory for the SA.
@JayHawkFanToo I am not attacking and hope that I don't come off aggressive to you because you are more knowledgable than I. But it seems like some of your points, though valid, are not a part of the discussion.
"Go to any of the discussion/comment section on the ESPN website when a KU-UK related topic is discussed and you will see UK fans coming out of the woodwork to attack KU, a lot more so than KU fans attacking UK" I have witnessed this and agree. UK fans seemed to have more bandwagon/cheerleading fans like @drgnslayr has noted. But an article based on the two teams is different than this open discussion site that we bring up material that interests us.
"Again, we talk about UK, at least I do, more in relation on how it affects KU and no because I want to trade places with them." That statement are what good fans should do! We play UK this year again, and looking at our team and how we've played and analyze what the future game might hold. But the problem a lot of statement on UK aren't about "affecting" KU but rather how it "reflects" KU and their accomplishments. An example is above in this thread earlier. It started off how we feel Cal has done with his talent but turns into a comparison on how Self compared with Cal has done with talent.
"If you think about it, which programs would you say are the top 5 programs in college basketball? KU, UK, Duke, UNC would likely be on everybody’s list but after that it gets more difficult…Louisville?, UConn? Virginia? Wisconsin? Michigan State? a case could be made for these and other teams but if you look at the most consistent program, then KU is at the top." Again, I agree! I love how we are always in contention and usually have the talent to keep up with anyone. I would hate being Uconn that has years where they know they don't have a shot in their conference, yet alone a national title. Or Louisville who has been very tough lately, yet doesn't have the tradition rich program KU has.
"...but if you go to UK or the Duke or UNC fan sites, you will see they do as much if not more than we do." Now that is something that I like to hear! I must have visiting the wrong ones. Which ones do you go to? I would love to visit and see how they view their team to get a more in-depth look.
But I will restate my question. This year was a very bitter pill to swallow. If UK lost in the first round, would it soften the sting? If everyone says no. If everyone thinks that a loss is a loss and no other team losing affects us, than I happily stand correct. But if you honestly answer, and the answer is yes, than you are basing our success/failures off of another team.
Again, I hope I did come off aggressive, just putting in writing what is going through my mind.
@ParisHawk If it's required by the basketball program, I would say it's basketball related.
Sorry, I'm not sure how to make a fancy link! But what is the competition like? We all knew McKay is a stud, but are we looking at a Big 12 player of the year possibility? He has expanded his game beyond trash buckets?
@RockkChalkk On the surface, I agree with you. But it goes deeper than recruits and all time wins. If UK lost in the first round last year, would that have made you more satisfied than how our season ended? If not, than your right. But if you honestly search yourself and find that it would have lessened the sting because UK lost, I would say you are running a dangerously close line to how Missouri or KSU feels about us. And they are, without question, filled with jealousy and have an inferiority complex.