@JayDocMD I'm totally blaming you now if Lyle doesn't pick Kansas. Or thanking you... One of those.
KirkIsMyHinrich
6165 posts
@JayDocMD I'm also seeing red flags with his physical condition. In the article his coach, Rob Fulford, mentions that he may have trouble guarding smaller, quicker guards because he's not in great shape right now. I have mixed emotions about Lyle coming to KU. I don't want Greene or White to transfer because KU's going after a player that may be marginally better. Similarly I don't want Selden to declare for the draft early because he feels pressured by incoming recruits.
But on the other hand he could also be a very good player for KU and we may end up needing him depending on what current KU players decide to do.
Personally I'd rather see White, Greene, Frankamp, players that have spent time at KU and paid their dues, get minutes instead of an incoming recruit. I think Lyle might fit the 2 guard position better than any of those players just based on his physical makeup and skillset, but White, Greene, Frankamp are also capable and I wouldn't mind any of them playing slightly out of position at the 2 spot. It would also be great if Selden ended up staying another year.
@JayDocMD You may want to, but he could still end up playing ball at KU next season.
@jaybate 1.0 No problem, it happens to the best of us. 83 points is still too many.
@jaybate 1.0 In regards to your last question, Oklahoma shot 45% from the field. They also got to the free throw line 36 times and made 29 of them.
Selden and Ellis were studs. Ellis finished with 22 points on a super efficient 6/8 from the field and 10/12 from the line. He also had 11 boards and 0 turnovers. Complete boss last night. Selden was hitting from outside last night, but mostly I just liked his demeanor. He wasn't hesitating when he got an open look, he shot right away, and he was diving on the floor after balls. The highlight of the game for me was late in the 2nd half when Ellis, Embiid, and Selden were all diving on the floor for the loose ball.
I thought Tharpe played pretty well. I thought Frankamp looked good in the minutes that he had.
Wiggins had a quiet game but I also thought that he was hit with a lot of cheap fouls yesterday. I thought the officiating in general was pretty poor.
Oklahoma looks like the 5th or 6th best team in the Big12 right now so I'm pretty happy with a road win in Norman.
I thought Conner looked good in the minutes he had, but let's not forget that Tharpe had a pretty good game last night. 17 points on 5/7 shooting, 2/3 from distance, 5/6 from the line, 3 dimes, and only 1 turnover. Tharpe is the starting point guard.
Originally I thought Oklahoma St would be the biggest threat to end KU's title streak. I don't anymore. Michael Cobbins is a big loss and they don't match up that well with the other top teams in the Big 12. Le'Bryan Nash is a good player, but he can be inconsistent at times. If he has an off game, Oklahoma St isn't going to get much production from their bigs. And looking at the frontcourt players on KU, ISU, and Baylor, Oklahoma St really doesn't have an answer for Embiid, Niang, or Austin.
I think Iowa State is the biggest threat to end KU's title streak for a number of reasons. First, look at their roster. They match up well with any team in the Big12. Ejim and Niang are good enough to play with Embiid/Ellis or Austin/Jefferson. Ejim and Niang can also stretch the floor with their shooting, and you can keep both on the court at the end of games because they are good free throw shooters. Their point guard, De'Andre Kane, is averaging 15 points, 7 boards, and 6 assists per game. He's 6'4 and can match up well with any point guard in the Big12. Between Fred Hoiberg, Scott Drew, and Travis Ford, I think Hoiberg is the best coach. And Hilton Coliseum is one of the toughest places to play in the country, ISU won't drop many games there. Iowa State scares me the most right now.
Perimeter shooting and gave up too many offensive rebounds. I'll post a lengthier reply later.
@eastcoasthawk No easy conference road games. Oklahoma St loses to KState, Duke loses to Notre Dame, Tech kept it close with ISU for most of the game yesterday. Even Arizona and Syracuse struggled at home with middle-of-the-pack conference teams yesterday.
Kudos to SMU and Coach Brown for knocking off UConn yesterday as well.
SDSU holds their opponents to 56.4 points per game which ranks 4th out of 351 teams in D1. SDSU holds their opponents to 37.0 % field goals which ranks 7th out of 351 teams in D1. SDSU averages 7.6 steals per game which ranks 47th out of 351 teams in D1.
KU averages 13.8 turnovers per game which ranks 256th out of 351 teams in D1
Kansas really needs to take care of the ball in this game to win. Especially considering that:
SDSU scores 70.9 points per game which ranks 184th out of 351 teams in D1. SDSU shoots 43.4 % field goals which ranks 192 out of 351 teams in D1
Take care of the ball, make SDSU score in the half court. Don't give up easy transition baskets to a mediocre offensive basketball team.
I'm sort of with HEM on this. Obviously I would love if Embiid stayed but I'm wondering how Alexander would handle that. I feel sure that Self's recruiting pitch to Cliff included that he would be starting, and I'm sure he's expecting to start wherever he goes. Same thing if Embiid left and Turner ended up picking KU. Somebody would have to come off of the bench because I seriously doubt that Ellis would start at the 3.
@Kip_McSmithers On a related subject I really hope that Mizzou loses tonight.
@TheDrunkenJhawk I posted this a while back.
If Selden stays he'll obviously start at the 2 guard. If not, I don't think Mason and Tharpe will start together, because that would leave very little ball handling coming off the bench, and also not a lot of outside shooting in the starting lineup. Greene and White can shoot but aren't great ball handlers and seem a little slow for the position. Frankamp might be the best option of the current players to start at 2 next season because he can shoot and he's a pretty good ball handler. But he's not very big or very athletic, and he's not a good defender.
If KU gets JaQuan Lyle I think he'll probably start at the 2 next season (if Selden leaves). Not necessarily because I think he's better than Frankamp, Greene, or White, but because he fits the position better. He's 6'4/6'5, he can dribble, he's a great passer, he can shoot 3's off the catch or off the dribble, he can drive to the basket, and he's pretty athletic.
That leaves Mason free to run the back up point. That also means Greene, White, and Frankamp would have to fight for minutes for the 5th guard spot and we might see a transfer.
Edit: I do think that Selden will stay though, so probably none of this speculation will matter much.
@truehawk93 I just meant who starts and who comes off the bench. I know that all 3 will get plenty of minutes.
And ya, I agree with you that if he goes somewhere besides Kansas I would want it to be SMU.
Embiid is gone. If Turner does end up coming to KU who sits between Ellis, Alexander, and Turner?
Lyle might be waiting to see what Selden does. If Selden comes back, which, from what I've seen he should, then I doubt Lyle comes to KU. If Selden leaves, Lyle would probably start at the 2 for KU.
For sure, my friend. Should be a tight race.
@HighEliteMajor I'm very sorry, sir. Please forgive me.
@approxinfinity Which is a pretty significant injury for Oklahoma St seeing as they don't have much frontcourt depth. Michael Cobbins was their best interior defender and also a solid rebounder. The three teams that they will compete with for the Big 12 title all have excellent frontcourt players (Baylor - Austin/Jefferson, Iowa St - Niang/Ejim, Kansas - Ellis/Embiid among others).
I thought this article did a really nice job of examining the upcoming Big12 conference race:
Inside the Numbers Big12 Hoops Preview: Kansas, Oklahoma St, and Iowa St ↗
@ParisHawk I actually saw this posted in the recent replies thing and got excited for a minute.
I'll be plain. They need to play defense and stop turning the ball over.
Kansas ranks 260th in turnovers per game (i.e. there are 259 teams that turn the ball over less).
Kansas ranks 116th in scoring defense and 80th in opponent field goal percentage. Kansas has been in the top 10 in opponent field goal percentage every year since Bill Self arrived.
And I don't blame that on the new rule interpretation because the rules are the same for everyone. I will however, blame these gaudy rankings partially on two things. One, Kansas has played one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the country so their team statistics are going to look bad next to, let's say, an Ohio St team who has been playing directional schools at home. And two, because they are extremely young. I think I heard somewhere that they are the 3rd youngest team in the country? I'm not entirely sure on that.
If they take care of the ball and start guarding they can certainly make a run at a national title. Kansas as a team is shooting the ball at 50.9%, which ranks 4th in the country. It could be even better if KU starts playing defense, forcing turnovers and getting easy buckets in transition. They have the athletes to do it.
@approxinfinity I would agree. KU's defense definitely could have been better but I didn't think it was that horrific. Toledo is a decent team and they made some tough shots. Toledo ended up scoring 3 fewer points than their season average, and they didn't go to the line nearly as much as they normally do. Granted, KU is much bigger and more athletic than any team Toledo has played this season so you would expect them not to be as potent offensively.
Honestly though, I was more irked by the turnovers. 18 turnovers and a lot of them weren't forced. Just KU being careless with the basketball.
Defense and turnovers. Other than that, I thought they played well.
I will stop counting the number of times Dick Vitale says the word "penetration" when calling games.
Losing to Maryland in the final four in 2002. That team was so good. Gooden and Collison averaging 35+ points and 20 rebounds per game. Wayne Simien coming off of the bench. Hinrich, Boschee, Miles, Langford in the backcourt.
Remember Steve Blake using his off arm to create space at the top of the key and KU getting whistled for the foul? I do, it was garbage.
@wissoxfan83 Yes, Thuggy Bear went to a final four in 1992 with Cincy. Also in 2010 with WVU.
Click me to see conference rankings ↗
Big 12 has been impressive in non-con.
Merry Christmas from Colorado.
If Selden stays he'll obviously start at the 2 guard. If not, I don't think Mason and Tharpe will start together, because that would leave very little ball handling coming off the bench, and also not a lot of outside shooting in the starting lineup. Greene and White can shoot but aren't great ball handlers and seem a little slow for the position. Frankamp might be the best option of the current players to start at 2 next season because he can shoot and he's a pretty good ball handler. But he's not very big or very athletic, and he's not a good defender.
If KU gets JaQuan Lyle I think he'll probably start at the 2 next season (if Selden leaves). Not necessarily because I think he's better than Frankamp, Greene, or White, but because he fits the position better. He's 6'4/6'5, he can dribble, he's a great passer, he can shoot 3's off the catch or off the dribble, he can drive to the basket, and he's pretty athletic.
That leaves Mason free to run the back up point. That also means Greene, White, and Frankamp would have to fight for minutes for the 5th guard spot and we might see a transfer.
At the 2?
If he stays:
Tharpe, Selden, Oubre, Ellis, Alexander
If he goes:
Tharpe, ??????, Oubre, Ellis, Alexander
Who starts at the 2 next season if Selden declares?
So pretty much any college basketball analyst or fan would say that the best conference this season is either the ACC or Big Ten. Proponents of the Big Ten will allude to the fact that they currently have three teams ranked in the AP top 5. ACC fans will point out that their conference is home to three historic programs in North Carolina, Syracuse, and Duke. However, numbers would suggest that the Big 12 has been the best conference this season, thanks in large part to a strong collective non-conference performance.
List of notable Big 12 wins:
Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Colorado x2, New Mexico, Georgetown, Gonzaga, Iowa, Michigan, Memphis, BYU, Purdue
Hopefully the Big 12 will get the recognition it deserves when the Selection Committee starts seeding. I think the Big 12 will likely get 5 teams into the tournament (Kansas, Oklahoma St, Baylor, Iowa St, and Texas/Oklahoma), and maybe 6 with Oklahoma/Texas on the bubble. KState has an outside shot. They had a nice win over Gonzaga but I've watched them a few times this season and I wasn't impressed.
Anyway, good job so far by teams in the Big 12. /EndRant
It wasn't that bad but Bilas definitely wasn't pro KU with his commentary today. Normally he's objective and he possesses good insight, which is why he's my favorite college basketball analyst. He's a former Duke player so maybe he's still a little irked that KU beat them earlier in the season. Or maybe it's like a Wiggins/Parker thing where he thinks Parker is the better player and is mad because a lot of mock drafts still have Wiggins going #1 ahead of Parker. I don't know.
I still prefer him over every other college basketball commentator, especially superlative Vitale and Big 10 Dakich.
Ellis, Embiid, Traylor, Black combined to go 14/16 from the field for 47 points. The four of them also shot 19/27 (70.4%) from the free throw line, and collected 23 boards. Great job from Black and Embiid in particular. Embiid is just incredible. Usually 7 foot freshman can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Embiid moves like a guard, has great foot work, has a nice stroke, has a left hand in the post, has great passing out of the post, and can run in transition. It's incredible to me how good Joel is after only playing three years of organized basketball.
Wiggins played well defensively I thought. He had 3 steals and a block, and he looked good on that side of the floor. 3/10 from the field, but I personally felt he got fouled a few times driving to the basket and the officials didn't call it. I'll live with those missed field goals because I like when Wiggins is aggressive and drives to the basket. Finished with 12 points, I thought he was solid.
Guards were what Kansas needed them to be. They don't have to score a lot, just need to take care of the ball and run the offense. Only 12 turnovers total for KU, and only about half of those were on the guards. Tharpe had 9 points, 4 assists, 3 boards, 1 steal, 2 turnovers, and that's really all he needs to do for KU this season. Just take care of the ball and run the offense. Kansas has plenty of scoring in Wiggins, Ellis, Embiid, Selden.
In my opinion this is the best full game that KU has played this season. The first half of the Towson game was their best half, but this was their best total game.
Edit: Oh, and I'm glad that Georgetown didn't concuss all of KU's frontcourt.
@wissoxfan83 Oh no, my why wasn't directed at anyone specifically.
Why?
Like the above posters have mentioned, KU sells out all games regardless of opponent. Unless all games are played at Allen Fieldhouse, KU would lose money.
Wichita St is off to an 11-0 start, playing the 86th ranked non-conference schedule in the country, and currently ranked 11th in the AP Poll. They are a good team this season for sure. Are they going to be good in the future? Can they stay consistent? I don't know, but I suspect not. 1412-1145 (55%) record in their history, and have been to 2 final fours, once in 1965 and then again last season. Scheduling a game with Wichita St might help KU's tournament resume this season, but most season's it wouldn't do much of anything.
I don't know, I just don't really see the benefit for Kansas. I couldn't care less what Wichita St fans are saying, college basketball rankings in December don't mean anything.
@KirkIsMyHinrich Florida wins, Prather with 22 on 8/13 shooting. Just saying.
Even if Florida doesn't play with the same energy that they did against Kansas, I still think they beat Memphis. Florida is a much better team when Scottie Wilbekin plays, Casey Prather is going to have a big advantage over anyone who guards him, and I will take Donovan over Pastner on a neutral court 10/10 times. Florida could get even better when/if Chris Walker becomes eligible.
Colorado has to really take care of the ball in order to win that game. They'll have an advantage inside with Josh Scott, but they have to get him the ball first. Brian Williams will make life difficult for Spencer Dinwiddie. Marcus Smart will dominate Askia Booker. Colorado averages nearly 13 turnovers per game, and they'll probably have more than that against Oklahoma St. I'll say OSU by 9, but CU has a chance if they take care of the ball.
I think North Carolina and Michigan St win pretty easily.
How about Ellis and Embiid combining for 40 points on 20 shots? Super efficient. I was particularly impressed with Embiid tonight. 5/6 from the field, 8/10 from the line, 6 boards, 3 steals, 4 blocks, and a ton of altered shots. And he completely dominated the center from New Mexico. Alex Kirk, who is averaging nearly 19 points and more than 10 rebounds per game, finished with 5 boards and 5 points on 2/8 shooting.
Overall I thought KU had great energy. They were aggressive, they only turned the ball over 9 times. Greene and Lucas looked decent in the minutes they got. Tharpe probably had his best game of the season. I think that's about it.
Oh, and Embiid's Dream Shake was awesome.
Is it me or does it seem like teams have been hitting a lot of garbage against Kansas lately? Trey Burke heaving from near half-court in the NCAA tournament last season, Archidiacano (or whatever his name is), a 23% 3 point shooter, hitting the contested shot at the end of the game in the Bahamas. And then it happened 3 times today. Booker hitting the contested shot at the end of the half, Dinwiddie's brick that got a lucky bounce and went in, and then Booker's Euro step half-court heave to win the game.
I mean I'm not making excuses for Kansas, they obviously could have played better. They didn't rebound, they rotated poorly, their perimeter shooting sucked, they turned the ball over too much. But it does seem like they've had some pretty hard luck with low-percentage shots killing them late in the game. Or maybe it's just me.
Also, nice win, Baylor. Big 12 now 6-2 against the SEC. Big, long, athletic Kentucky was outrebounded 41-25 by Baylor.
I see this as more of a promotion for Mason than a demotion for Tharpe. I don't think anyone expected Mason to play as well as he has this season. Maybe this will motivate Tharpe to play better going forward. Self should start Embiid too.
Rock, papers, scissors between Self, Williams, and Izzo.
If I had to pick one of them I'd probably go with Greene.
You're a baller, Wishawk.
I didn't get to see the game. How did Kansas look? I heard Wiggins had some flu-like symptoms?
Also, what did Devin Thomas do to get ejected?
And then AXS them if they give us an unsatisfactory response.
Wtf is AXS TV?