Greene still a raw work in progress, but satisfying to note that his energy helped create positive Jayhawk surges when he was in the lineup.
REHawk
1583 posts
Seems as though most of the key bigtime losses in the Bill Self era involve opponents' fortunate 3 pt. percentages. I suppose that speaks to our sometimes weak m2m perimeter defense....
@JayHawkFanToo How about BurntBurger?
I have thought for some time, and continue to hope, that Bill Self is refusing to show his full hand regarding compensatory defenses. Ford and Hoiberg, out of necessity to survive, threw some change-ups at us on the defensive side of the court. Bill Self either senses that his squad cannot master basic elements of a zone, or is determined to save any such surprise look for desperation situations in NCAA Tournament play. The Hoops World is fully aware that he seems always to loathe such maneuverings. Yet, at times his former squads have survived and moved on via modified zone defenses, esp. in postseason tournament play. The Embiid factor looms huge in consideration of defensive change-ups, at this stage. A key missing link in our normal m2m pattern is missing. If Self is quietly working on schematic change-ups, will JoJo be able to plug in, when or if he returns? Without him, I expect to see the Jayhawks surprise some unprepared but threatening opponent, probably around the 16:30 mark of a first half; just so that a brilliant schemer like Hoiberg races into a halftime locker room befuddled, or at least uncertain of adjustment. Speaking of Hoiberg and Co., that team certainly appears to be an Elite 8 contender.
Boy O Boy, I have revisited this thread every 12 hours just to vacuum the verbiage! Dwight D. Ike and Aunt Mary's testicles! Whoa-Ho! I hope that one of Wiggins' family members copies and preserves these fine notes to present for their multimilliondollar son's amusement, as he nears retirement sometime around his 38th birthday. Jayhawk fandom at its rabid very best!
@BeddieKU23 Could be the case that Bill Self is still holding back on showing his hand until a modified zone is called for in desperate moments vs. a mid-major in the first or second round of the Tournament? My take: Wily BIll ain't yet walked away in dejection from the card table.
@jaybate 1.0 jb, I think you are too harsh on AW at this particular moment. Kid's a freshman. Just not enough TIME for him to adapt to and polish the complete game. Other than the 5 turnovers and 2 assists, he posted magnificent stats today. Would probably have been even better if guards had decided early on (and late) to ride his hand. I liked his second period aggressiveness. He and Traylor were really hustling and scrapping.
@icthawkfan316 We must remember that Andrew is a freshman. Marvelous stat sheet today, other than the assist line and the five turnovers. He continues to polish his various skills, and has compiled extraordinary first year numbers. Just not enough games remaining for him to focus steadily on the assist thing along with defense, scoring, blocks, steals...the things he gradually has come to do so proficiently at the college level. Jayhawk TIME is not going to stand still long enough for him to arrive at the point where he can do it all.
@icthawkfan316 Count me in on the Staten bandwagon. Smart is an embarrassment to the league...and to himself.
@JRyman Lots of second and third place finishes, too. 3 decades of dominance.
Well, of course none of us has the advantage of feeling the practice-time pulse of this squad and its variety of possible lineups as does the coaching staff. From "outside" positions we have seen advantages to the Tarik/Jamari combo, and most of us probably suspect that Tarik/Perry would not combine so effectively or efficiently in most games. Landon/Perry? Landon/Jamari? I hope that tonight we get a chance to see Landon on the floor for at least 20 minutes, perhaps in both combinations. Knowing Tarik's propensity to foul, it stands to reason that Bill Self will usher Landon into the lineup as much as he can afford, esp. with JoJo's future uncertain. Both from a practicetime standpoint and a medical analysis standpoint, Bill Self obviously knows much more than do we...and his "touch" is usually right on target. That said, I am very eager to see Landon Lucas on the floor for serious minutes w/o the threat of a short leash. His contributions just might be saving factors as this team plows forward.
@jaybate 1.0 Okay, jb, sit back, catch your breath, break out the cordials, and brace up for late Wed. night or early Thurs. morning postings. The Jayhawk roller coaster is 75% through its trek, maybe more. Win or lose, encapturing excitement and thrills yet to come.
I have really enjoyed reading all these posts. Yeah, I concur 100% that Bill Self has done a marvelous job with this young and inexperienced crew. No freak one time accomplishment. He does it year after year, plugging the right recruits into his system, plugging the right players into game situations, securing wins that the majority of coaches would not. I shudder at the thought that someday he might depart. Is now more than somewhat reassuring that he feels comfortable sitting on the throne, declaring that there will be no need to move on until fans grow tired of his "rhetoric!" The Guy is a genius at the mic, too. After good ol' Roy beat his tired retreat to alma mater North Carolina, who would have thunk that Jayhawk hoops would have vaulted so quickly and steadily into the hands of such masterful coaching? There just might come a season when all of us will have to cut Bill Self a bit of slack.
This is the stage of the season when I usually grumble to myself: okay, BIll Self once again has boxed himself into a corner, not having provided his bench players enough minutes to make a difference when things turn dicey with the starting lineup. But to be fair and judicious, this Jayhawk starting squad opened the season with SO MUCH inexperience that there has been little opportunity to work Frankamp, Greene, White, Lucas onto the floor. Outside of necessary subbing with BLack, Traylor and Mason, the other talented bench players have been exposed to slim opportunities to advance and prove their value, at least in game conditions. And Bill knows best what goes on behind closed practice doors, evaluating growth and talent from day to day. Tharpe's inconsistincies are a real puzzle, a junior who sometimes plays with aphasia. At this stage, not much to be done but to ride out the year with him, unless injury intervenes; hoping that he shows up for more really good performances than the opposite. I think that eventually Conner will become a more efficient and dependable point guard, but that is a tough position for a freshman athlete who did not arrive as a top 10 or 15 recruit. If he keeps his head right, perhaps opts for a red shirt next season, he just might develop into as dependable a player as Releford or Reed, even much sooner than they.
@Crimsonorblue22 I just did a bit of research on the Perot thing. Found that in 1983 he headed a committee to review and suggest changes to the Texas public school system. One of the keynotes of that committee was to promote the No Pass-No Play rule for extracurricular activities. Without more intense research I probably cannot unearth his stance on abolishing the trend of holding athletes back; but as I remember it, there was to be instituted some rule or other about no high school football player participating in school sports after reaching a certain age, maybe 19 or 20...which, essentially, curbed the popular practice. I do know full well that the state is still crazed over the sport of football and pays football coaches considerably more than most teachers and administrators in most communities. I am aware of one S. TX high school of an enrollment, 2000 pupils. Nineteen employees work with the football program. In that particular community, high school basketball players are a bit shy about admitting to being a part of an athletic endeavor other than football. One of my relatives taught several years in that high school.
@HighEliteMajor Yeah, I, also, would shut JoJo down. Pronto. No more "tweak" talk; no rushing his recovery. The end of season tournament picture looks very vivid to me. Without a mostly healthy Embiid, we close up shop. Absolutely marvelous, what that kid has become so quickly and adroitly. I damn near shed my own tear when I read about his lumbering toward the Sat. night team bus. The hallway glimpse of his journey to the locker room was visually agonizing. We have won the league outright, even if we lose the next two games w/o him. A #2 seed suits me fine; and we would earn that if we perform well in the league tournament, regardless of the Tech or W. VA outcomes. If NCAA Powers What Be choose to overlook Okie State's losses during Smart's penalty games, then they sure as hell should take into consideration KU's struggles with an impaired or missing starting star. Bottom line: Jayhawks earned the outright regular season championship in what is arguably the toughest conference in the nation this year.
@Crimsonorblue22 Actually, I am shooting from the hip about Ross Perot leading an attack on that once common Texas practice re holding athletes back a year. That is definitely the way I remember it...but now in my eighth decade the memories have begun to bounce..down and up like Marcus Smart on the hardwoods. Maybe someone with research time or a more precise memory for factual detail might be inclined to add to this discussion?
@approxinfinity For decades, Texas schoolkids were held back, so as to allow physical growth prior to h.s. graduation. Especially football players. Ross Perot went on a campaign several years ago to outlaw that common practice down in the Grand Nation of Presidential candidates and Football.
@Crimsonorblue22 As I just posted on New Topic, take a look at the Pat Forde article on Coach Cal, Yahoo Sports. As approxinfinity proclaimed: BRUTAL!
@REHawk Speaking of coaches having to deal with Marcus Smart, last night I viewed Travis Ford in a much better light, after his favorable postgame words about the Jayhawks. This must have been a most difficult season for him, losing Cobbins to injury, Clark to misdemeanors, and putting up with an array of Smartisms. Sometimes when cameras focus on the Cowboys bench during timeouts, it appears that Marcus is taking over the coaching. Ford is still growing as a coach. I hope he will have learned much better to take charge of his troops in order to win control over the young and sometimes out-of-control players in his custody. He is enmeshed in a league filled with very experienced knowledgeable and successful peers who present a constant challenge for one of the youngest among them. Either he will grow from his experiences this season...or will remain annually in the lower echelon of Big 12 W/L columns. A guy who played at Misery and Kaintuck, it is very easy for rabid Jayhawk fans to overflow with disrespect!
@jaybate 1.0 jb, you have paid high compliments to Marcus Smart. There is little doubt that the kid is really talented. An extremely loose cannon for most coaches and officials to deal with, but a rare enough talent to find a niche somewhere in professional sports. I can't imagine the likes of the Thunder or the Spurs ever taking a chance on such a loose screw; but his current posturing and gloating aren't far removed from the norm in professional basketball.
Regarding JoJo, I suspect you are right on target. We don't advance far without him at 90%. I'm inclined to address the Wiggins thing much more positively. Usually, he has done a super job on defense; has allowed his offense to progress incrementally; is a terrific team player; is still the GREAT HOPE for blowout scoring production against almost any opponent we should face. But would probably just as soon be inclined to retire to his lodgings to play video games 18/7! As Crimsonorblue22 so succinctly pointed out: These are kids! We just have to arrange and manipulate our pre- and post-game warboards with full respect for that ultimate consideration.
Per usual, I enjoy reading your timely posts...almost more than the Sunday Comics or reruns of Don Cheadle and Brenden Gleeson in THE GUARD!
@Crimsonorblue22 Tonight?
Obnoxious. The 80% Marcus Smart who plays winning, intuitively highly skilled collegiate basketball is a competitive force to be reckoned with. The 20% posturing flim-flam in-your-face performer is a private and public detriment, the eventual cost of which will torment any NBA franchise brave enough to gamble on the positive returns for a shaky investment. Last night Marcus Smart presented a testament to the mercurial person and player he really is. No escaping the juxtaposition of a marvelously shining yet disappointingly tarnished gifted athlete. Even while willing his team to victory he cannot avoid the tawdry gametime maneuverings and glib verbal taunts which illuminate his inherent psychological makeup. As a total package Marcus appears to be on track to become a sleepless nightmare for the coach and general manager who must pay the boundless cost of his controversial and challenging grandstanding. One thing for certain: the franchise which inherits him should now know full well the ups and downsides of the player being drafted.
@Lulufulu85 Well, I certainly hope you are right re Iowa State. Hoiberg has done an admirable job in Ames. Heck, I would like to see 3 Big 12 teams advance to the Elite 8, completely outshine any other league. (I view Iowa State as a serious threat to our Hawks in the BIg 12 Tournament...along with desperate Okie State.)
Speaking of SMU, if Larry Brown feels inclined to stick with that program another 2 or 3 seasons, I envision our Jayhawks encountering one of his potent squads somewhere down the pike. What a coaching matchup!
I suppose that my thinking about AW3 falls along these lines: Unless he should emerge as a key contributor for the Jayhawks, I dearly hope he lands a significant starting opportunity in a site where I can heartily cheer his stardom. A fine kid who seems to deserve the chance to spend two years showcasing his potential....
@icthawkfan316 A very comprehensive list, ict. I might add (12) Where does Tarik go? NBA or foreign soil? Then (13) If we should roll to a national title, and Selden moves into lottery status, will he jump? If so, how will that affect our 2014-15 lineup or late recruiting? And I can't seem to dodge the Andrew White scenario from your (5). Could AW3 end up at Tulsa or SMU?
I know, I know. I can hear the distant snickers. Have already bunched up my shoulders and tucked in my chin, waiting for the barbs. But here goes. It is not yet written in stone that Andrew Wiggins is a GONE ENTITY, 2014-15. AW's parents are very perceptive, very knowledgeable worldly wise former athletes. They know full well what their super talented son will step into once he flies the college coop. If Jabari Parker returns to play with freshman Okafor next season, why wouldn't Andrew WIggins consider returning to play with JoJo or Cliff Alexander or Myles Turner next year? Age 19 is very very young to be cast into the works of the NBA Meatgrinder.
@HighEliteMajor I think you are on target re the Andrew White situation. Though he and family might dearly cherish the Jayhawk experience, and hold Bill Self and staff in high esteem, why return to such bleak opportunity for playing time...esp. when he could be starting for 2/3 of other Div. 1 programs? From what I have seen and read, my inclination is to like this player, and to respect his quiet acceptance of nonplaying minutes. I sense tremendous potential which has gotten snuffed by the numbers game. Popping off the bench cold has not worked well for Andrew. As a starter elsewhere he most probably will settle in to the opportunity to unleash his strengths. Sad situation currently for such a sincere talented player and person. If he stays, I really hope that things turn around for him. Just at the moment when he appeared ready to contribute this season, he gets the groin injury, then Kaboom! Greene rises to the opportunity for more minutes. Frankamp, too. And Mason springs forth to make major contributions which amount to less opportunity for White to get on the court. I think he is a goner.
My take is that Lyle's interest in KU stems from the Alexander influence and connection. Seeing that Kansas is a current home to 2 of the probable top 3 lottery picks in the nation has got to enchant Lyle (or most any other top 20 recruit who has caught the eye of our coaching staff). IMHO, current and future recruiting will blossom for Bill Self, now that Wiggins, esp., has plugged in so effectively to Jayhawk Basketball. The grind to land top talent should be much easier for the Kansas staff. But, back to Lyle, I would imagine that his Jayhawk scholarship offer, if indeed that scenario transpires, would be with the understanding that he think of himself not as a OAD player, considering the limited minutes he might earn his freshman season. Of course, he would likely be assured that he COULD earn considerable playing time if his practice experiences stack up superbly vs. experienced returning talent; but not to expect the amount of playing time that Wiggins and Selden are currently accumulating. If he expects to spend only one year in the program, Sorry, but Sayonara.
@jaybate 1.0 There you go again, jb, popping out of box for a touch of your very own Midnight Madness. A pretty solid suggestion...which, I imagine, Self and Co. have toyed with, esp. now that Tarik has gotten better control of his fouling. I could envision the Jayhawks going to this lineup late second halves, if Embiid and Black had tallied less than 3 fouls. Perry would probably be a more dependable sub for Wigs for brief stretches (more dependable than Greene or White), and would get a chance to show what he can do at the 3.
bskeet and RockTheChalk, many thanks for the videos. WOW!
Not for style, but for surety, Wiggins' first dunk last night was a thing of beauty. Two hands, even tho he was all alone; no way was that ball going to pop away from the scoring column. I was bound to a ringside seat in a South Padre Island sports bar last night, so have no DVR to review Embiid's and Black's dunks. Didn't Selden bang a nice one, too? If someone has that shot of Black's super slam over the Longhorn Mammoth, please post.
@Lulufulu85 Iowa State? No Wichita or Syracuse?
As Ellis' midrange shooting numbers escalate it becomes more and more apparent that his defensive struggles lie in the fact that he is playing out of position at the 4. Keegan's article of the 17th focuses on Perry's sense of perfectionism, his psychological bent to master skills per gradients. Jaybate has long clamored for Ellis to earn the opportunity to play more at the 3 spot, tho other posters insist that he hasn't the quickness to handle defensive assignments from the 3 position in the college game. I'm wagering that if a healthy Embiid returns, and if Alexander quickly adjusts to college level play, Perry earns at least half his minutes at the 3 position next season. Lotsa IFs, but that is my take on the starting makeup of the 3,4,5 positions, at least at the start of next season. Oubre's possible quick ascension might muddle that thinking. One thing of which I feel more certain (another IF): If Perry stays aboard a fourth season, he will become the McDermott of Division 1 basketball, 2015-16.
Regarding the big tournament, at this stage we pretty much know what our starting lineup can do; and we know that Black, Traylor and Mason are depenable subs, super subs vs. certain matchups. X Factors appear to be modus operandi of officiating and possible explosiveness of Brannen Greene. Way back in October I was dreaming of a hot-handed Conner Frankamp leaping off the bench to save our bacon: 4 or 5 consecutive 3s, Bam, Bam, Bam, Bam Bam! I really hope to see that happen.
@drgnslayr Slayr, tho not vitriolic, you are joining HEM more than somewhat in your take on Andrew Wiggins. I still am positioned back a few cars in this 2/3 race lap, but I think you guys are right on track. Andrew has felt his way along without a great deal of heat, most probably, to this stage of the season. Almost every game he exhibits some mindboggling maneuvers which shriek to Jayhawk Fandom, "More is quite possible, what with increased assertiveness!"
HEM recently focused esp. on Andrew's low assist total. When he attacks the paint he appears rarely if ever to fathom pitching the ball off to an open teammate. He appears to be in need of constant proddings. As I recently posted elsewhere, Dad says Log some rebounds.
Shazam! High school coach says, Avoid those finger rolls and attack the rim. Shazam! AW's passivity is a puzzle, considering his capabilities and constant array of gametime challenges. Yet, his late minute half time or endofgame maneuverings have elevated the play of this team and its opportunities to log victories on several occasions. His defense is usually outstanding...an area where he seems to meet challenges unquestionably. All that said, the squad and season are now at a point wherein ANDREW WIGGINS MUST STEP UP. Otherwise, dreams for a Final Four run likely will soon flush down the gutter.
@drgnslayr A very inspirational story, Jamari latching onto Bill Self and the Kansas program after his Chicago streetlife as a vagabond young teen. Kinda sad that he has gotten homself cooped up in this current doghouse, but, hey, he is still a kid (although riding the cusp of an age when adult decisionmaking and consequential awareness is supposed to kick in). His progress in the sport has been very commendable for a player not rated in the top 100 when he arrived at a topclass Div. 1 program. I have come to put great trust and faith in High Elite Major's analyses and prognostications. HEM might have underrated the eventual development and impact of JamTray, just a hair. And yeah, I feel certain that we would have defeated K State if Jamari had been available, esp. with the re-tweaking of Tarik's ankle in that contest. Lucas was just not quite yet ready to plug the gap (but this date next year, LOOK OUT!). Anyway, I wish the best for Jamari, and feel confident that he will immediately come round. If Self lets him off the hook earlier than anticipated, Traylor sure as hell best not let him down! I would imagine that the entire squad knows full well that Bill Self's stance toward tough love is firm and relentless. Until JoJo heals and returns, we need the Bruise Bros. at 95% efficiency.
On a related note, is it not fascinating, all the numbers associated with this sport? Not the least of which is MINUTES OF EXPERIENCE. And now, MINUTES MISSED due to recovery...or discipline.
@JayHawkFanToo A very rational post. Is a good thing that we built a league lead when Embiid was healthy. Beginning to slip without his major minutes. If Jamari is still benched for Saturday's contest, Black must defend very carefully; and Lucas will probably earn at least 15 minutes, experience vital to our survival at Tech, even with Jamari back in the lineup by Tuesday. I hope that JoJo is able to rest for at least 10 days w/o our lead vanishing.
At this juncture, I sense very real concern for maintaining league supremacy. We might survive the TCU contest, what with Tarik's weak wheel, Landon's limited game experience, and Jamari's possible continued benching. But if we don't have those three up and running on 7 of 8 cylinders at Lubbock Tuesday, Tubby Smith is bound to dish out TROUBLE. He has brought his Red Raiders into current prominence which is not to be taken lightly. Ask Lon Kruger.
Must be a fairly serious infraction for Self even to consider more than one game out for Jamari. My take is that Bill Self is something of a father figure for Traylor. Tough love has come into play with this situation.
@JRyman For this squad to maintain and finish Big 12 lead w/o JoJo healthy and available, all other players must immediately dot all Is and cross all Ts. Absolutely no more offcourt "irresponsibilities" or dumb technicals to cost the Jayhawks ample opportunities to win the league title and progress as a national force while Embiid is recovering. His presence looms ominous for at least 4 of the 6 NCAA games we hope to view. Probably all 6 games....
@HighEliteMajor Speaking of Greene/White sharing the 3 position vs. Wiggins, is it again time for boardrats to express verbal wonderment regarding AW3's benchtime? Perhaps, as Self has proclaimed, it is just a matter of a numbers game for our abundance of bench talent.
But Self usually goes with experience vs. the newbies, other things being nearly equal. Maybe White did not recover from the hip pointer (groin injury?) fast enough to latch onto minutes back in the sub lineup before Greene and Frankamp began to show promise?
@HighEliteMajor HEM, please don't go off kickin' at any gameside chairs over Wiggins' slow response to calls for assertiveness. He is an 18 year old kid who bears lots of focus flaws to his game. Granted, he possesses extraordinary potential someday to rise to NBA All-Star success, what with his comparative freakish athletic skills. But, as we have witnessed from early on, his mental focus appears to demand constant proddings. Emotional intensity erupts only in long drawn out fits and starts. He has evolved into a very deep challenge for the coaching staff, and I don't now foresee a quick personal turnaround regarding those flaws.
Even so, he is the best 3-man the league has to offer, game in and out, a very rare feat for a freshman. Very gradually he makes adjustments on the learning curve. I concur with your criticism of his inclinations not to pass off to teammates when he lunges into traffic in the paint. Hopefully, by tournament time he will have added that adjustment to his physical game. For such a highly touted, highly skilled and physically blessed individual, he is a slow work in progress regarding upward development toward the complete player. You think we would really be a better squad with Greene or White playing that position for major minutes?
@ralster If Selden and Embiid stay (and White), just imagine next year's bench!
@wrwlumpy Poor Ol' Hugs departs AFH with not so much as a pack of Juicy Fruit for his Saturday efforts. Self just kept heaving heavy metal into the Mountaineers' cogs.
@globaljaybird Wily Bill, applying the needle on Wiggs.
Whether 13 points or 40, in Andrew Wiggins the Jayhawks landed a quality recruit who has come to value all aspects of the stat sheets. At this stage of the season, and of his career, he can ease off the pedal on nights when he cannot buy a hot hand...or when defenses are stacked to prevent his signature moves with the ball. He voices pride in developing into a more complete player on both sides of the midstripe. In every contest AW seems to engage in some form of jawdropping maneuver or athletic aberration. Just as fans and posters have come to take in stride his 17/19 performance or his 60+ ft. buzzerbeater, it will not surprise many of us if he does go off for 40 pts. before early April...even though that might not be in the cards per customary Bill Self Basketball. But then, Andrew is certainly not to be reckoned with as a "customary" Bill Self recruit....
@JayHawkFanToo Wikipedia proclaims that Hightower officiated 12 Div. 1 Final Fours.