I wish Wiggins would have dished to Black who was unguarded and running along side on his right while he was driving toward the basket and got fouled. And I also wish he'd have dished forward to the wide open Selden instead of having his highlight dunk.
Wishawk
393 posts
I don't know how you guys twist a topic on Joel's injury into a nutrition study. :-) Wish Embiid were here long enough to benefit from all the nutrition and training he might receive.
Now I do wish Coach Self would rest Embiid for the rest of the season, and just as importantly Embiid chooses to come back for a second year.
Get well, Joel! Godspeed and it's not worth it to rush back into action.
@drgnslayr LOL. Did they teach all these during your KU days or did you get it from sneaking into the Octagon of whatever?
We need our PG to "manage" the game. Don't turn it over and get the ball to the scorers. That's it. Just don't screw it up.
I assume it's too late to change course now. But I still feel CF could do the job. Tonite he snapped the ball around the perimeter and got it to the right people all without launching one shot. If he played 30 minutes we would have won. IMHO.
@VailHawk Well said!
I think we've put too much expectation out of 90+ ranked Tharpe or 70+ ranked Mason. Mason showed more athletic abilities than Tharpe, but so far Mason is just a bull dog who showed more of his driving capabilities. If he has as high a ceiling of Tyshawn, he might become another Tyshawn when he is a senior. Somehow I don't see it. I'd like to see Frankamp develop more speed and I like the fact that he already demonstrated glimpse of smarts playing the point.
@jaybate 1.0
KU FT DEFENSE ABOUT AS GOOD AS ITS BEEN ALL SEASON!!
Maybe the KU players are such students of the game and they study while sitting on the basketballs. So the balls are no longer round. But they respond to the players' warm treatment and go into the hoops regularly while the opponents can shoot straight so they only make 30% of their tries. And I'm fairly certain that's why Black likes to feel the ball and turns the ball around in his hands just to make sure there is no odd feeling in them.
The most complete game from Wiggins. Great to see!
Love the enthusiasm from Selden too!
@HighEliteMajor Second that!
Removing a superstar type can make a team better. It's because the pieces fit better, and work better together.
A good team is greater than the collection of its parts. We all saw White's improvement from last season. Though he may never be the player Wiggins is, I'm not sure the team will have a worse record than it has now. Looking back at all of Coach Self's teams, not many of them were star studded like 2008, but they all performed well. And one of the big enjoyment was watching the players grow from freshmen to seniors.
I must say, by resting Embiid, Coach Self restored my faith that he will do what's the best for his players. Playing hurt for the college may win the coaches, the school and fans games, but it may also shorten the players' playing career in the long run. It's not for the best interest of the players. When a coach says he has the players' best interest, but still plays the players hurt, it simply shows the coach has no integrity. The coach is ultimately responsible for his players just like a parent is for his/her children. I'd never put my son in harms way and I expect the coach the same.
@HighEliteMajor Yes, I agree with you for his sake. But I just hate seeing a good kid, especially one who works hard and fits every bit in the Jayhawks family ends up going somewhere else to get playing time. White is exactly the type of players we love to see. It is unfortunate that it just happened his position got so crowded. I wish him the best whether staying or going somewhere else.
And on your question re. Wiggins, I'm never a big fan of proclaimed OADs. Never was a fan of Selby, nor Henry, but loved Rush. So far Wiggins has been a model citizen, but he never seemed to have the same attitude of Brandon. Now Ellis got 32. When are we going to see 40 out of Wiggins? He certainly has all the tools to do so. For me, I'd take White over Wiggins regardless what happens at the end of season. I'm more sentimental that way.
I feel sorry for White and also proud of him for working really hard on what he wants to achieve. It's been a difficult year for him and the numbers are against him, but I believe he will have a bright future whether at KU or somewhere else. Too bad there is strong possibility that he may get lost in the numbers again next year. But I hope he sticks around and take a red shirt next year. I love the kid.
@jaybate 1.0 Excellent summation of less talented players.
one has to play (forgive the metaphor stacking) at the edge of one's envelope in order to look good. Any fall off from the emotional edge needed to be at one's best leaves a player with lesser talent looking indifferent, or bad.
The talented players may have off games, but they consistently out perform the others even when they appear to be cruising. Tharpe may be smart in recognizing his limitations and plays safe. And the team has multiple talented players who can carry the load, so he only need to be the facilitator. On the other hand, Coach Self probably recognize what you and HEM noticed and so he plays Mason along side of Tharpe or even Mason alone at length to push the speed.
Great analysis from both of you.
@wissoxfan83 I'm not sure.
He will become the poster child of why players should go pro if this costs him a lot of draft day money.
I don't see anyone on our roster with his attitude and hope we will never see any. I like Coach Self's recruits. They may be super stars, but they also show humility and most of them are exactly what we want/expect to represent our team.
Bruise Brothers! Like the sound of it.
But from the post game interviews, it sounded like the whole team is under the weather even Coach Self. Hope they get well soon. And hope Joel didn't twist his back too bad.
@tundrahok Second that!
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I want Joel to read that so we get him back for another year! I don't really believe what I wrote.
He does read Kubuckets, right?
But of course! Anything less will be uncivilized! :o
@RockChalkinTexas You made us so jealous! We had to drag the ground hog out to show that spring was supposed to be here. :(
This year a lot of the games will be decided by the referees or the inconsistency of their calling. I'd like to see Coach implement a no shot at the rim policy. Use the 5 bigs to stop any attempt around the rim. Use controlled hard fouls to intimidate the opposing teams from driving at the hoop. Make the officials call one way or the other. Don't give them any excuse to hand out technicals, but deal out the intimidation none the less.
@wissoxfan83 Agree with you about there was little momentum in our favor. It's almost like the Broncos got bullied by the Seahawks. First came the shock, then the initiatives got beaten into the shells by the repeated pounding. So they lost hope and stopped trying. Some reignited the fire like Selden did in the second half, but most probably went into the mood, "see you next game!"
@wissoxfan83 I believe some of calls or no-calls were the momentum changers. So they did have an effect on the players and the team as a whole. But they were not the only reasons.
@approxinfinity Actually the game felt like the game we just played, Texas against Kansas. Everything went Sea Hawks' way and they were the bullies. And they came firing in all cylinders, but I was surprised Denver fell apart like they did. But my team is not in it, so the game didn't mean much.
@RockChalkinTexas Thanks for the report. It's always great to read the more personal stories.
@Crimsonorblue22 I wouldn't criticize Tharpe too much for not driving into the trees. He is better at putting others in position to score than driving himself. But the problem last night was nobody was scoring except Selden. And both Selden and Mason drove, and drew fouls.
I watched the game on TV and a couple of times the camera cut to Coach Self. I had a feeling he conceded the game well before the end. It was just not our night. I'm sure the team will bounce back and they may just take their anger out on Baylor.
@Crimsonorblue22 Selden has the build of Smart. We had high hope for him before the season. He's just now discovered his own game and gained a lot of confidence in the recent games. I'm not sure if he is ready to lead, but with his efforts there is no doubt he will continue to do well.
If he comes back for a second year, I wouldn't be surprised that he will gain the same stature like Smart and probably will do much better leading the team next year.
Selden was man of the match in my eyes. I felt he was trying to carry our team. Loved his efforts.
I thought our guys played really hard, but it was just an off night when they couldn't buy baskets. Several times our guys drove and received heavy contact, but no foul was called. In one sequence, I saw Embiid elected not to attack the rim because the Texas bullies were waiting. I believe those contacts would have been call on the Texas players earlier in the season.
I couldn't believe Embiid was thrown down, but got called for a foul. That should have been a technical on the fat one.
I think this is just one of those games where nothing went our way. The good shots didn't fall. We drove against the wall all game long, but not enough movement of the ball to create match up advantage. But give Texas credit, their bigs had a field day. They out played us and it didn't become easier with the way the officials called the game. I couldn't believe how many times we drove toward the basket with heavy contact, but nothing was called. That of course was advantage to Texas.
I'm not worried, but I feel terrible about this game. It must be the New Orleans Final Four shirt I wore that jinked the team. Sorry.
@HighEliteMajor Great points.
- Coach Self: Please find an excuse to have Embiid come back for a second go round. And he may become a legend like Wilt.
@wissoxfan83 :(
“Everything was moving so fast for me at first,” Wiggins said. “Coach would get on me for not being aggressive or not running the floor hard every possession. He was hard on me. He was hard on everyone. He doesn’t care who you are.”
That's why Coach Self is the best! He pushes guys hard and the guys respond. That's why more players reach their potentials under Coach Self. The Wiggins won't regret their choice to come to Kansas because Coach will help Andrew to become ready for the NBA. It will never be merely a one year stop over.
Love Wiggins' attitude. Keep faith and work hard! And listen to your dad.
And JoJo might have carried the team, but Wiggins was everywhere last night. It's very refreshing to see a new Wiggins. I think he got some good advice this time and took it to heart. It was great to see.
Didn't JoJo try a new hook drop dunk from the some old play book last night? Don't remember if was Du Jabar made it famous or someone else. But he ran from the right side of the board, then swing the ball one handed across his chest like a wheel, then drop the ball in the hoop from the side. It didn't go in, but the swing was very interesting.
@ParisHawk OOPS. Guess you pointed it out, so there is not sense correcting it. LOL.
I think we will be in the WARM WARM COLD WARM WARM pattern for a while yet. And we may have a couple of HOT HOT HOT games, but it's probably too much to expect consistency from this many freshmen. Some of the freshmen may not become man until sophomore. So I'm sure there will be at times, we will ask, "why did they go backwards?"
Besides, the teams do much better jobs on scouting during the conference play. Every deficiency and every tendency and every play will be reviewed, studied, and countered. So there will be no easy game where we can sneak up on people. And of course we always get people's best shot. With a very strong Big 12 this year, there will be no easy game. But hopefully the tough non-con and conference season will prepare the young team well, and we go all the way in March.
@nuleafjhawk If Ben were around, you wouldn't have Wiggins. And I doubt we'd drop performance in any area. It may mean Wayne at 3 while Ben at 2. So we'd have Embiid, Ellis, Selden, McLemore, Tharpe starting while Black, White, Green, Traylor off the bench. I think it'd do great and probably have better record so far into the season.
Embiid's behavior is very typical among the soccer players. It is a little dirty trick often done behind the referee's back. It's done all the time because there is only one referee on the field and there is no replay. But it's a very bad idea doing it on the basketball court. He must have forgotten how many cameras focus on him and there are three referee watching the players too. I'm sure Coach Self will nip the butt in no time. Joel is very tall kid and still learning the game. He will correct it quickly.
That was great to see Wiggins smiles. And it was a beautiful smile. He knew he made a huge contribution to the big win. I think he read our chattering about his lack of joy and lack of effort. So he left everything on the floor tonight. 37 minutes and 19 rebounds! Great performance. Great smile.
@Crimsonorblue22 Hypothetical speculation. Isn't that what we are doing here? If Wiggins weren't here, who would you start at 3?
@Crimsonorblue22 Just imagine who would start at 3 if Wiggins were not here. And who would receive many more minutes behind Selden.
@jaybate 1.0 I believe it's just natural many people whisper advices in the players' ears, including their parents and friends, and many other "friends". And the players do what's best for themselves. We as fans have certain expectation of our team and the players and we compare them against others. We don't get to make demands, but we do make observations, and speculate on why they out perform or under perform. This is not an attack on their characters, but a speculation based on the observations. Since I have no inside knowledge of the team or players, I'm simply guessing what might be the cause and I could be way off base.
There is plenty of discussion about the advantages and disadvantages of having Wiggins on board, the effect of his presence taking other players' minutes and slowing others' development. I think from the eye test, Wiggins didn't have the highest grades on the effort level among his fellow teammates.
There are also plenty of discussion on Embiid's potential return for a second year. And one of the arguments against it is that he risks a potential injury by coming back. Now if there is a potential of injury in the second season, there is certainly the same potential in the current season. Since the one year college is a mandatory delay to the OADs' debut on the NBA stage, isn't it paramount to avoid injury in the only and unnecessary season they must go through? So what does it tell when they don't appear to enjoy (no smile, no jumping up and down with joy) or put out as much effort as his fellow teammates?
Coach continues to play Wiggins because he still puts up team leading numbers. But the numbers are from his talents, not of his effort. For me, I'd take Andrew White for his efforts.
Let's hope Selden keeps up this fine form until the end of the season. He had another good game against the kitties.
@KirkIsMyHinrich Could it be that he was advised not getting hurt during his one season of college experience? So he appeared to be cruising more times than not. An injured Wiggins might not be as marketable as a healthy one. Besides he is not hurting his draft status since he is still putting up team leading stats without even appearing to be trying. So how high is his ceiling if he does try his best?
@jaybate 1.0 It's very enjoyable to watch them grow. I love that Selden is finally having fun. Hopefully Wiggins will follow soon.
Love this one.
!Embiid ↗
I believe there many advantages in staying until close to ready over leaving after one season. I understand Olajuwon belonged to a different era, but I believe it was because he stayed in school until he was ready, he dominated the first day he stepped onto the NBA floor. Had he come out after one year, he might have been another Kwame Brown or Tyson Chandler. And I believe the chances of getting an injury is equal or less while in college. Why less, it is because he will gain strength over the year in college without the grind of the long NBA season. He will mature without the pressure of being a big boy in the NBA. In college, he will grow up with his peers, but in the league very quickly while all the o' boys try to push him down. Nick Collison had a few very interesting things to say about that http://www.gq.com/about/nick-collison ↗ ↗. If he gets injured in the NBA, he might have to rush back into action before ready. Just imagine how much does the coach of a bottom team in the NBA want to push his star signing to perform? Look at Yao Ming's career, how much injury he endured and how he rushed back before ready. In college he will be protected by the coaches. I have absolute confidence that Coach Self treats him like his own son and would not take the unnecessary risks with him.
I agree going after an jury in college may lower the earning potential. But the difference might not matter in the end. So why not going when close to being ready? The difference might be between the rock of the team vs. some also runs.
I don't see any advantage in Embiid's leaving before being close to ready. He has such a high ceiling and with another year in Coach Self's system, he will be much stronger, and simply get so much better. One argument might be by leaving a year late, he will make 3 mil less. But over a ten year pro career, 3 mil is relatively little, something like 100 mil vs 103 mil. Another might be the fact that athletes get hurt while in college and might be able to go to the league. But with Embiid's ceiling, he'd be drafted even after being injured. And with today's medical technology, a broken ACL doesn't have as significant impact to the athletes' performance as it used to. As much as it hurt Manning, Manning still had a very good pro career. The difference in timing of an injury in college vs. during the first 3 years in the league might mean being able to play as a role player for 10 years after injury vs. struggling as a free agent if getting injured while learning the ropes in the league as a rookie. See Henry as an example. With another year of conditioning without the grind in the pros, he might reduce the chance of being hurt as a rookie.
So I don't see any advantage in leaving after 1 year. And there is much to gain for Embiid than lose by staying for another year.
@drgnslayr Just read your post on Knight and Wooden. :) Nicely done!
Now I'd love to see all of them smiling like Kevin, but with Coach's philosophy, it might be hard for some to exhibit the free spirit like Kevin, Selden specially. On the other hand, Kevin was not well thought of and wasn't expected to make major contributions. The fact he did was amazing. Wayne came in highly regarded and there was much talk about being OAD. Maybe he does need a tear down and build it up process to rebuild his confidence. Basically throw away all the pretense or pride, and just be himself. Do what's necessary and be free.
@drgnslayr I agree Wayne appears be a good guy and is a very good player with a high ceiling. But I think he also appears too composed most of the time, trying to do the right things and say the right things. But an athlete sometimes needs some degree of recklessness and a little care free spirit to be creative. Creativity is not just for the artists. All the players in all sports need to have it to reach the next level. I don't think benching will kill the creativity, but being afraid of making mistakes may. I believe there is a reason why the little kids pick up foreign languages easily, but adults find it very hard. It's because the kids have no fear in making mistakes. I think Wayne needs to wind the clock back a little and be a kid again. Stop being his own critique. Just enjoy the game and let whatever may happen happen. And I think that was also your point as well.
On the other hand, I like White a lot, and hope he gets a chance to prove himself.
@HighEliteMajor I'd love to see White starting at 2 for a few games.