🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@approxinfinity My understanding of their criticisms of sneeches was that they were actually criticizing themselves for using it as an anti-racist text and that it didn’t actually fit their hopeful interpretation.

I will say it’s been a while since I’ve read the book but that was my understanding of what the link O provided was saying.

I do think the stuff I provided showed Seuss was an advocate against anti-semitism but had a blind spot in his use of people of color, specifically Asian characters. We all have blind spots and unintentional biases and the only problem is when we refuse to examine those. More conversation on the problems in literature, policy, art and everything else is the best way to shed light on that in my opinion.

@approxinfinity Here is some more on the problems of Dr. Seuss from a really good website:

https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/its-time-to-talk-about-dr-seuss ↗

and some more about how Seuss isn't just one thing:

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20190301-the-surprisingly-radical-politics-of-dr-seuss ↗

I should add in my opinion there is nothing wrong with reading and loving Dr. Seuss as it was how I learned to read (perhaps the most empowering skill I've ever learned). But I also think there is something to be said for recognizing that now we have a greater understanding of the harm of racial caricatures and that it may be best to avoid those images with our children until they are more ready to have a more nuanced conversation about it.

@approxinfinity To me that Atwater quote says everything we need to know about "overt racism." Most people have figured out that doesn't tend to work so well anymore and have made their racism so abstract that there will always be plausible deniability. That is the denial Kendi writes about as white supremacy and racist. That's why I like to think of it like "Dr. Seuss's books perpetuate racist stereotypes and are therefore racist" rather than "Dr. Seuss is a Racist!"

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/26/695966537/classic-books-are-full-of-problems-why-cant-we-put-them-down ↗

Here's an article about some of the problems with Seuss. I really like the quote, "Not engaging [with problematic texts] at all runs too great a risk of not learning or understanding where the problems lie," says Larissa Pahomov, who teaches English at a high school in Philadelphia. "I believe there is a way to look at material that is stereotypical [and] racist and identify it for what it is, and then hopefully, in doing so, neutralize its effect."

For me this is why that lower case, adjective form of the word racist is so important. It is possible to love Dr. Seuss and acknowledge his portrayals of people of color are racist. For that I thought this quote stood out:
"In a study published earlier this month in Research on Diversity in Youth Literature, researchers Katie Ishizuka and Ramon Stephens found that only 2 percent of the human characters in Seuss' books were people of color. And all of those characters, they say, were "depicted through racist caricatures."

Those caricatures have a potent effect, even at an early age. Research shows that even at the age of 3, children begin to form racial biases, and by the age of 7, those biases become fixed."

I would argue with the idea that anything in the human brain is "fixed" and may lean more toward ingrained or entrenched but the overall point still rings true to me.

@mayjay I feel like the big push has to be to complicate every narrative. Nothing is just one thing. 3/5 can be a racist reduction of black slaves to less than a whole person AND a way for Northern states to prevent seeding power to the South.

@approxinfinity I guess I feel like most of the stuff he talked about was overt and with intent. The connect past events to the present and utilizing the Atwater quote to draw the line was particularly clarifying I thought.

I know I only learned about Tulsa because of watchmen. And most of the list from Gutenberg at the end I’ve learned about as an adult.

I agree with you that most people don’t hold intentionally racist views in their hearts. I still, everything that’s going on, believe most people are good people or at least try or want to be. Unfortunately however, as I believe this clip illustrates, people who did (and do) hold that hate have been using governmental power codify policies that harm people of color. At some point, all those good people have to do something to cori tee at that hate and evil.

I think the disproportionate numbers with Covid continue to demonstrate, us good people haven’t done enough.

I will also continue to argue that calling someone “a Racist” is significantly different than saying, that idea, belief, or policy, is racist. To me the term is much more useful as an adjective than a noun.

@DanR Hugging Missourians Is always going to be a no for me.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Interested in hearing your thoughts (and others obviously) about the most recent John Oliver episode. Here is a link to the main story about History and how it is taught.

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@mayjay I think I type the word shit so much that now anything close autocorrects to it!

As I see it there is no normal as long as the virus is spreading out of control. Other countries did hard shutdowns and it worked so it can be done. But until we get to the point where we can understand where EVERY case came from and contact trace EVERY person that case came in contact with quickly and efficiently a good hunk of people will continue to self select their own personal shit downs and life will not be normal. The pandemic is THE biggest issue and until it’s dealt with nothing else will really work. I have friends and family who’ve lost their jobs, gotten furloughed now for the second time, and are healthcare workers who are absolutely exhausted. but I also have friends and family who are still contracting the virus. My brother is currently on day 6 waiting for his test results. It’s just unacceptable. And all our leadership wants is a pat on the back and let’s move on. It’s like setting sail for a long journey knowing there’s a hole in the boat.

70,000 more people are projected to die By November if we continue do what we are doing right now. More of we decide to open up further. In another thread some were talking about the sacrifice people need to make to bring back sports. How about we all sacrifice so that the entire crowd for 7 KU basketball home games don’t die. That’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

@Texas-Hawk-10 This was the full sentence I was referring to “ It’ll suck for them to not be able to interact with others during that time, but if they want to increase their odds on being able to play this season, sacrifices need to be made and not having a social life outside of the staff and teammates for 6 months isn’t a huge sacrifice in the grand scheme of things.” and I stand by my argument that you have no idea how big or small a sacrifice what you suggest would be for any individual other than yourself.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Agree, my issue was with your statement that it “wouldn’t be a huge sacrifice” as for some folks it really might be. And if there’s a significant portion of kids that choose not to play especially at smaller schools adjustments will need to be made. Already seeing major star baseball players opting out and rightly so of their employer can’t provide a safe working environment. Can’t imagine most colleges will be able to do any better than the MLB.

@FarmerJayhawk was just in a meeting today where we are talking about how to manage masks and social distancing with high school students. I think mostly it will be fine because most high school students will do what their asked if they understand why and are generally beginning to show signs of social consciousness but definitely they will definitely need a lot of reminders and passing periods (if they happen) will be a shit show.

@Texas-Hawk-10 the sacrifice you talk about is going to be so different for every individual. A 5 star recruit at Kansas trying to make a name to get drafted is different than a 2 star recruit just trying to play some more basketball before his knees go out.

Every person has different responsibilities in their personal life. Those they care for etc. for some it’s a HUGE sacrifice.

@Marco No it’s actually a rule the university set for their students!!

@justanotherfan UT made a rule that students can't have in person parties on or off campus so they've got that covered! LOL

School opening off to a good start.

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An interesting thread. Long but good.

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@jayballer73 Pretty sure this is what you are referring to. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/texas-starr-county-hospital-coronavirus/index.html ↗

Bad in small towns where capacity is low. I know we’ve had cases brought to austin from smaller towns that can’t handle the growing load.

Excellent statistical analysis here:
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I look at tweets like this from an elected official on her verified twitter account reaching a large enough audience for me to see on my feed and wonder how that person could perceive of themselves as cancelled, censored, or anything else.

The question then is do conservative students actually get lower grades based on their beliefs. That would be a major problem. One I’m very cognizant of as a teacher. I work hard in my classroom to make sure every voice can be heard and respected (unless that voice is continually disrespectful of others). As a teacher all I can do though is create an environment of openness. I do all I can to make sure my students don’t know my opinions on most matters because I don’t want them adopting my positions rather than figuring it out for themselves. Just about every educator I’ve ever met works to do the same, minus a few ultra conservatives believe it or not But I think that is more about this cult of Trump than real conservative thought.

I remember being taught abortion was evil and killing babies in school and being afraid to speak up because it seemed like everyone agreed. And while I now think that was wholly inappropriate in a public education setting, and I self censored, looking back I still feel I had the opportunity to speak up and didn’t. That’s the real crux of free speech to me. Not what is actually said or not. But what opportunity is there. That KSU student was free to say all the racist things he wanted and was rightly not removed from school, but nobody has to like him or take his views on race seriously. Getting a large backlash on Twitter and maybe losing some friends and clubs or whatnot is the consequence for that action.

People don’t have to like each other and if you need to be liked to feel comfortable in your job, welp, better censor yourself on the ideas you know people won’t like you for. Free speech isn’t, say whatever you want and you are free from criticism. It’s really the opposite. Say whatever you want but be ready for the criticism.

It maybe I’m like you @FarmerJayhawk and just pretty much think and say what I want. Some of that I do think comes from being in a position of power as a Straight white male (Sorry HEM) all of my life and knowing what I say or do only reflects on myself and not everyone else of my gender, sexuality or race.

Ok I have some honest questions.

How is self censorship anyone’s problem but the person doing the censoring? Are conservatives in the study above self censoring because they are afraid they will be punished by the state vs being perceived differently by their peers?

Wouldn’t a free market punish those with bad ideas leading them to either self censor or change their beliefs?

If we continue to hear from all these people who have been “cancelled” talking about how bad cancel culture is, have they actually been cancelled?

Some info about transmission in kids related to schools opening.

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A thread about John Lewis opening for the “I have a dream” speech.

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@FarmerJayhawk “the market” is not some inanimate force. It is run by people. If people acted rationally that would be one thing. I think our current situation certainly would demonstrate the potential of human beings to act irrationally. In this country the market was established in concert with a government that valued some human beings at 3/5 of that of others. You can’t just say I’m conflating capitalism in this country with capitalism in general because that’s the whole point. You can pretend that there is some word where government and economics don’t intertwine and that in that world “the market” is unbiased but that is definitely not this world for all the reasons YOU provided and more. Kendi’s point is that racist policies have to be uncovered and changed otherwise racism will persist. Again, even though you post the whole quote it seems like you fail to take in the entirety of the message and instead prefer to object to a portion of the argument without acknowledging the argument as a whole.

@Woodrow And the company my partner works for was unable to get a loan because the bank they work with didn't have any access to that money the first time around. They eventually got the loan the second time around.

@FarmerJayhawk said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@benshawks08 said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@FarmerJayhawk said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@kjayhawks said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@benshawks08 I just don’t like racism of any kind. it’s racist to assume because of the color my skin I haven't had to work to get what little I have- signed a food stamp, no hot water, sometimes no water, no phone, no a/c, goodwill shopping if it wasn’t hand me down guy that spent plenty of his youth in the inner cities that’s white.

Bruh didn’t you read Robin DiAngelo? That’s just your white fragility talking smh. Either agree you’re a racist or deny it in which case you’re both a racist and fragile.

Of course I’m being slightly facetious except for that’s the entire premise of the #3 best seller on the NYT nonfiction list. Oh, and don’t say you’re not a racist because that means you’re 100% a racist according to the author of the #2 nonfiction book on the Times’s best seller list.

With that level of infection of this mind virus it’s no wonder we all end up talking past each other.

Currently on chapter 8 of Kendi’s book and I just am not getting the same things out of it that you are. To me so far the point of the book is that no person is either racist or not racist. In the book so far I don’t think Kendi has labeled any person a Racist and your “facetious” post is a complete mischaracterization of the book and it’s author. Maybe I’m in for a big twist at the end? But I’d be surprised if Kendi spends the entire first half of the book delving into the complexity of racism in its many forms in the US and even more globally just to arrive at the simplistic stance you attribute to him.

I mean he literally says capitalism is a racist system and being not racist is basically the same as being a racist, “The claim of “not racist” neutrality is a mask for racism.”

And if you read that whole page, he says that in the greater context of how Donald Trump and white supremacists, like Richard Spencer claim to be "not racist" which they are doing to mask to mask their racism. And so for clarity, anti-racist is a better term for people who are against racism. He does this while acknowledging his own racist ideologies he has had to confront and continues to uncover.

As for the capitalism point, does capitalism in its current form in the United States lead to equitable outcomes when looking at large groups? Does the current system benefit people of different races the same? I'm genuinely curious to know what you think the answers to those questions are.

Interesting read about the persecution of Irish and German immigrants in the early United States.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/white-u-s-immigration-policy ↗

@FarmerJayhawk said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@kjayhawks said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@benshawks08 I just don’t like racism of any kind. it’s racist to assume because of the color my skin I haven't had to work to get what little I have- signed a food stamp, no hot water, sometimes no water, no phone, no a/c, goodwill shopping if it wasn’t hand me down guy that spent plenty of his youth in the inner cities that’s white.

Bruh didn’t you read Robin DiAngelo? That’s just your white fragility talking smh. Either agree you’re a racist or deny it in which case you’re both a racist and fragile.

Of course I’m being slightly facetious except for that’s the entire premise of the #3 best seller on the NYT nonfiction list. Oh, and don’t say you’re not a racist because that means you’re 100% a racist according to the author of the #2 nonfiction book on the Times’s best seller list.

With that level of infection of this mind virus it’s no wonder we all end up talking past each other.

Currently on chapter 8 of Kendi’s book and I just am not getting the same things out of it that you are. To me so far the point of the book is that no person is either racist or not racist. In the book so far I don’t think Kendi has labeled any person a Racist and your “facetious” post is a complete mischaracterization of the book and it’s author. Maybe I’m in for a big twist at the end? But I’d be surprised if Kendi spends the entire first half of the book delving into the complexity of racism in its many forms in the US and even more globally just to arrive at the simplistic stance you attribute to him.

@kjayhawks said in How white Democrats poll on "Big Ideas" to fix racial divide:

@benshawks08 I just don’t like racism of any kind. it’s racist to assume because of the color my skin I haven't had to work to get what little I have- signed a food stamp, no hot water, sometimes no water, no phone, no a/c, goodwill shopping if it wasn’t hand me down guy that spent plenty of his youth in the inner cities that’s white.

I don’t assume any of those things. That doesn’t negate the fact that the black people were stripped of their rights to earn for generations making inherited wealth (or the lack there of) part of the wealth gap that is a fact. Yes there are black people that make more money and have larger inheritances than white people but that does not invalidate the negative impacts of slavery still impacting descendants of slaves to this day.

The systematic effects of racism often break down when looking at the individual level because racism doesn’t target individuals. It targets groups. So to see it you often have to look at group data rather than individual experiences.

Poverty sucks and I would never imply that life is easy for those struggling to make ends meet. Know my goal is never to strip anyone of their humanity (including white people) and like everyone else I’m not perfect at achieving that goal all the time.

@kjayhawks for individuals yes, but not systematically.

@justanotherfan Don’t forget inherited wealth.

This seems like a bad idea:
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@kjayhawks Studies exist showing just the numbers you are talking about. Statistically Blacks with degrees make less than whites with the same degree. Same thing for education and income. Black children from higher income don't perform as well on standardized tests as whites with the same income.

@Kcmatt7 Fox “news”???

Our president probably watched this on his tv:

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We are officially going virtual only in Austin for the first 3 weeks starting Aug 18 according to our superintendent.

@FarmerJayhawk I might be inclined to think this could work if you could get staff every other day as well. The biggest problem is the adults. We are more likely to get it, spread it, and suffer from it. And while adults can mostly be trusted to follow guidelines and take safety precautions, all the evidence right now shows if you put a bunch of adults in a building for extended periods of time, you will have community spread and this thing spreads too fast and for too long without being detected.

And then there’s sick leave and quarantine for those who inevitably get it. I’ve yet to see a plan the truly addresses this. Substitute teachers have been hard to come by before the pandemic and all the ones I know have said no way will they put themselves at that much risk for the $80-$100 a day.

@justanotherfan very well explained. Wish I could upvote more than once!

And the thing is, almost every system in the US is set up this way. Healthcare, finance, education, housing, legal, policing, and on and on. Each one intersecting with the others and multiplying the effects.

And there are some folks in power doing more of this on purpose. There is a greater number and I might argue an overwhelming majority perpetuating these systems without racist intent, and a small few working to dismantle the systems and build with equity as the base instead of white supremacy.

The first set is tough to deal with because they believe they are better, deserve more, and will do anything to hold onto that power. Hard to change those minds. Can happen though through meaningful experiences with diverse populations. Think about bigoted parents with a LGBTQ child. Or an extraordinary life changing experience with a person of color. These people can see the distinct error in their beliefs and radically change them.

The second is more problematic because they believe they are doing good because they feel like they are good people. They are mostly kind, moderately considerate and don’t go out of their way to harm people. It has been my experience these minds are even harder to change because they don’t think they need to. For these people (like me) it takes a concerted effort to seek out diversity. Find spaces where people who don’t look like me are speaking freely and listen hard with an open mind.

The last set need to be promoted more and more to positions of power because they are practiced in listening to those without power and using that learning to inform their mindset. That connection won’t last forever though because like money, power corrupts. It just does. So many studies and even scientific experiments have shown this to be true.

@approxinfinity the only problem I see with the ideas of “for all” (which I do support) is if you don’t specifically take race into account, history shows us black and brown people will receive less benefit than white people.

Just look at our current situation with coronavirus. It is disproportionately impacting black and brown people (specifically latinx populations). We know the virus itself isn’t racist so it must be our systems. Think if we got a vaccine next week. Who do you honestly believe would have the most access to that vaccine? Now think who NEEDS access the most?

My dad just got the virus and he was able to know quickly because his partner’s work paid $150 for him to get a quick turnaround test.

Looking at it another way. Let’s say this whole thing (life) is a race. It’s a really hard race for everybody. It’s uphill, the terrain is rocky, anyone might fall, break an ankle, even fall into quicksand and be stuck until help arrives. Now let’s say some people when the race starts are literally held back in chains while others tackle the difficult course. Eventually folks realize, hey we should let those people out of chains or they will never get to even run this race. So they do. But then additional obstacles are added to the beginning of the race specifically so that they can’t catch up to those who started long before them. Special help is provided for those who started the race from the beginning but may have fallen along the way. Some of those obstacles are eventually overcome by those who had been held back for so long and the even catch up to some of those folks who fell along the way. If we decide now, you know what, this race doesn’t really have to be this hard. Let’s just make it easier for everyone and that way it will be fair. The people who started the race from the beginning are still going to be so far ahead, those who were held back and even those who fell behind, will never catch up no matter how level the playing field. Those that are already ahead will say, what’s the problem, we are all running the same race now. It’s fair. Those who fell behind will say, this isn’t fair, I should be up there with everyone else who started at the same time and even more unfair, some people who started after me passed me so they must be cheating! If we help them, I might now win!

This to me is what our systems do. To think any “for all” policy would really benefit everyone equally seems naive to me and even if it did, some of us have already had so many advantages for so long, fair would not be a word I’d use to describe it.

@approxinfinity So what would you call unwillingness to give up the status quo (wealth unfairly earned and maintained by whites because of white supremacist/racist policies) to promote racial equality?

This quote Has been and continues to be very true in my experience:

“ The broader finding here is clear: White Democrats — definitely before Floyd was killed but most likely afterward too — are more circumspect about ideas promoting racial equality that might be disruptive to the status quo for white people.”

Racism (individual and systemic) continue to be an issue beyond political divides.

Don’t skip the line though about white democratic support for these ideas far outpacing that of republicans. Both sides have work to do but that does not mean they are equally bad on race.

Another thread with good questions to be thinking about right now with school reopening plans.

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This could challenge (and likely upset) some of our libertarian posters.

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The link in the tweet is a long read but definitely thought provoking.

@approxinfinity keep on bringing it! Because I’m struggling to find it at the moment.

@approxinfinity I feel like I’ve heard that before. COVID will not scare certain people away from the polls. Voter suppression is real and does anyone have any doubt he will do his best to make it the BEST VOTER SUPRESSION anyone has ever seen? Anyone think he is above cheating to win? No doubt others will be doing their damndest to stop and point out any and all improprieties but that hasn’t slowed him down yet. I honestly think he wins in November.

Can I do Ted Cruz here too?!

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@kjayhawks I feel for ya. I was a special ed teacher for my first 5 years so I know a little about how necessary that structure is for a lot of students. I spin out about 2-3 times a week racking my brain to figure out how this can work in August and am yet to come to an acceptable solution.