Is that the guy I heard of recently that is being hyped as having a 8'4" wingspan?
drgnslayr
11251 posts
I'd like to see us shooting more 3s. It will happen, for sure, if Svi gets on track. If that happens, he'll be popping them up all over the place. The kid isn't bashful, and Self knows he'll have hot streaks and will encourage him to shoot, perhaps even more than he encouraged Wigs to throw up bricks.
Yes. AFH should be worth at least 5 points. And not playing O'Connell Center should also add in another 5 or so points. That's a solid 10-point swing over last year, and not even considering we have a team that can handle pressure better and Florida is a dud right now.
I caught some of the Badger game with Duke. I became a bit discouraged. It wasn't what I was expecting. Yes... Okafor is as advertised. I'm with you on Kentucky having a fast lane to the big trophy... the only good part of that is Duke won't get one with their prized recruits. On second hand, I'll support Duke over Kentucky any day of the week.
I don't know... I think Wisconsin will improve a lot over the year. They have to mesh in the pieces and find their identity. I can see it happening, and if they do, I see them challenging for second place nationally.
Thanks for the Florida update. I haven't caught one of their games yet this year. Interesting that Walker still can't dominate D1. I remember all the hype. I would think that Walker's failing to come near expectations doesn't bode well for Billy and future recruiting.
I caught that game. I thought the refs were one-sided, especially in the first half, towards the Utes. They were barely whistled for a foul while WSU racked up double-digit fouls.
I catch most of WSUs games and they didn't look like themselves. I thought VanVleet's skin color was green. They all looked like they were suffering from altitude sickness. I just checked Salt Lake City and it is an elevation of 4,226 ft. Not really that high, but maybe it makes a difference in a fast paced game. Or maybe the arena sits on a mountain. Whatever the case, those kids looked sick. Makes me wonder what we will face in Utah. That 7-footer Austrian was pretty dominant.
I think most people in here now realize the Shockers are legit. I just think many in here don't care for either the team, fans, coach or all of above. I'm indifferent, but I like to watch good ball and the Shocks typically provide an exciting game to watch.
Adam Silver made a promise to end the rule creating OADs. I believe most of the "experts" still think it will take a couple more years until change comes.
I know this is part of the problem. But it isn't all of the problem. Let's say players have to stay 2 years in college. The college game will elevate because the top tier talent has 2 years in college. But I think that will only mean instead of just Kentucky being the holder of so much talent, it will widen to a few more teams, like Kansas. We will benefit from it. That doesn't really fix things, it just dilutes the problems, and broadens the base of talent a bit.
My issue is with the discrepancy between those top tier players and the rest of the herd. It doesn't add up in my books. I know these kids get more exposure to better coaches and get into some better game experience before entering college, but it still doesn't add up.
I think the biggest problem falls on the shoulders of the 4 year players. Every year there are a ton of those guys out there, but few are competing with the talent of the young studs. My guess is they aren't putting in the work and focus. That was my theme on the video games post. Calipari's concept of a revolving door team shouldn't be working. Every year he should be beat by a team that hit it right with the majority of their players being seniors and it shouldn't matter if Calipari snags the top 9 prospects. Those guys should be getting schooled by older players. That is the way it used to be.
I just don't think the 4 year guys are advancing their games far enough to own college basketball. That is why the young guys are the focus of all the attention, and earning their way into the FF for several years now.
When I look at our team, and I see guys that don't seem to know the very basics of the game... like head and ball fakes... I wonder just what do they know? When we were smoked by Kentucky, at halftime even the announcers were screaming for Kansas to use FAKES. That was friggin' pathetic. FAKES are something guys should start using in junior high, and over the years they should be able to sell a fake to anyone, especially when players are overplaying the shot. All the Kentucky guys were jumping all over the place the second one of our guys put the ball up over his shoulders. That was pathetic, and I could barely stomach watching such absurd basketball! I'm an old man and I could have fouled out most of that Kentucky team by myself. I'm not bragging, I'm saying that to make my point about the absurdity. Listening to the announcers at halftime just rubbed salt into my wounds.
I think young players today focus all their energy on silly eye candy. They practice silly looking dunks with one hand behind their head, instead of working on a good ball/ head fake. That's what I'm thinking. The basics of the game are boring to kids. They all want to just soak up the glory of an aesthetic dunk instead of working for hours on dribbling skills or learning how to hedge on defense, or learning how to block out on the boards. None of that stuff is glorious enough for these kids to spend energy on. Too bad. It is the kind of thing that will keep most of these kids from every making a dime in basketball. And it is these skills that could make a Kansas "David" team knock the snit out of a Kentucky "Goliath" team.
Svi is a breath of fresh air. Finally a guy who seems to know the BASICS! And because of that he is already being touted as perhaps the future best player in the Bill Self era! I'd like to have a few more Svi players on this team!
Very, very solid post. I'd put your analysis far above anything on the wire out there.
I think you have the %s realistic and accurate.
I know we are pushing for Maker, because Maker is the next Wiggins. He's the guy that is going to attract the cameras. He's a guy that can help KU's image.
The reason why we've been pushing on athletic 3s is the benefit of having Wiggins. Wiggins made it easy to sign Kelly. And if Kelly finally starts to perform, he and Wigs will help us land the next athletic 3. We (temporarily) have street cred at the 3.
Back to Maker. Our offensive sets this year are shifting away from the traditional hi/lo. This is our only chance to land a player like Maker. Maker will not attend a school where he is forced to play in the tiny space of the low post, with his plays coming from "back to the basket." Maker has ball skills, and even has some accuracy on his perimeter shot. He is frail. He is more than a project for Hudy. Even though Maker may not see the value of it, he should be shown how much Hudy can help him on the next level. It's more than just putting weight on his frame. It's about solidifying his body to prepare himself for the rigors of the league. He needs that desperately.
We better get used to Perry popping 3s. It is not only part of our new offense, it is part of the recruiting effort for Maker. A big reason we wanted Turner was to develop him into a KD kind of player... the same kind of player Maker wants to be. Turner was going to help us land Maker. That didn't happen because we had no track record of playing outside the hi/lo. This year Self is going to prove that he can break free of the hi/lo. It doesn't mean we will totally abandon it. We just won't be forcing that strategy, especially when we are playing the wrong teams. I know I have been hard on Perry since he has been at Kansas, because he didn't play tough enough. But by the time Perry leaves Kansas, he will have given a lot more to Kansas basketball than most people realize. He's going to nail a bunch of 3s this year. He's worked diligently on his long ball all summer. He is going to help us recruit the future big men.... the bigs that can handle the ball and don't want to be stuck playing in the low post. There are a bunch of them coming up the system now. We land Maker, he becomes the next Wigs, and we continue to land the future big men.
Zim is a good catch, too. He is extremely capable and athletic. But I'm not sure he stands out for the media like Thon does. I'd like to see us land both of these guys. I'm not sure they will be in the same class, though. But imagine having twin towers who can play all over the offensive side of the ball? Yeah... bring on Kentucky! TIme for a pay back!
"I remember going to the bathroom one Friday night at the Wheel, and one poor guy was laying on the bathroom floor passed out."
I hope this vision doesn't go back to the '70s... if so, it could have been me or one of my friends. That was a wild time period and I can tell stories from every spot in that place, and also outside. I recall one cold night, really cold, and one of my friends passed out on the steps into the wheel and barfed so much the entire steps were covered, and frozen. It took lots of big pots of hot water to wash it down and lots of salt to prevent from freezing over. Needless to say, my friend had a temporary ban at The Wheel. Even though we were all friends with the staff, we all went through little moments of banishment, and we deserved what we got.
I think time will tell at Kentucky. I know Calipari's dream is to sign this much talent every single year. This year he is selling his concept as a permanent one... he's selling to top recruits that they don't need the quantity of minutes on the floor... they need quality minutes. And their practices against other top talent is the best thing to get them ready for the league. He wants to keep the NBA-style combine. It's all part of what Calipari is trying to develop; the best place for the top elite talent to come on their way to the NBA. And if they win another title this year, he is showing that Kentucky has the best chance for playing for a NC every single year. I'd say he is very successfully obtaining his vision.
I'm sitting on the fence with OADs. I like to see players develop over 4 years (and sometimes 5). But I like to have a realistic possibility of winning another NC soon. I'm feeling the frustration of not winning it since '08. And I see what team is in the FF almost every year now... UK.
I'm frustrated that we have all these guys who are just below the top tier, and as soon as their stock rises a little, they book to the league, too. I think that is what bothers me the most about having a non-OAD plan. Right when we finally start getting our money's worth out of the lessor guys, they book to the league, too. Imagine if players like TRob and the twins had stuck around for 4 years?
The entire subject is so friggin' complicated. I have my opinions, but I also trust Self's vision to do what he thinks is best for Kansas... whatever that vision is. I know he would like to sign more OADs than he currently is signing. We are now actively recruiting about every top guy and his dog, but we only land a few. Seems we are just waiting for the luxury apartments to help kick in a higher % of top recruits.
"The Jaylen Brown thing will push Greene out the door. Even if Oubre turns pro, I think Greene would be concerned for PT in his junior season (a year he should be starting). Bringing in a consensus top 3 pick in the 2016 draft would kind of do that, I think."
I think Self is going to have to take one from Calipari on this. How to manage too many talented players. It's hard to say we don't want Brown to come to Kansas... real hard.
I think one of Greene's issues is his strength. He either isn't very strong, or he just plays meek ball. As someone in here posted... the Sir Charles Barkley saying goes... "the meek may inherit the earth, but they won't get the ball from me!"
Teams should take the feel of the coach. Self likes physicality. Greene's lack of physicality has held him back in the Self system. I do think he's been playing with more physicality this year. I hope he keeps that up! Perry definitely has.
I noticed in the MSU game, Self quickly pulled Brannen after he tossed up a 3-brick on a 2-second possession. It showed Brannen walking by Self on the bench. I (and even the cameraman) expected Brannen to catch an earful from Self. Self actually gave Brannen a butt tap as he walked by. I was shocked! Choked on my jello!
John Calipari may not be the most-liked coach in college basketball. But you have to give him credit for trying new things.
His platoon system, to some degree, appears to be working. It may not put his best team on the floor to win for the majority of minutes, but it establishes a message to future recruits; Kentucky will be playing 10 players in key minutes. The system seems to work because none of the players seem to mind only getting to play half a game each. They seem to have bought in to the idea that all of their McD's deserve minutes, so they are willing to share.
Kansas does not have the overall depth that Kentucky has. But Kansas has more guards than minutes, so Bill Self will have to figure out what to do with his perimeter. In past years, Self had a cut off line on his roster. Players were either "in the minutes" or "out." It doesn't appear to be a system that works this year. The numbers just don't add up, and it seems unlikely that Self can just bench a highly-sought recruit for the entire year. That would definitely tarnish his future recruiting efforts because future recruits would see Kansas as a risky proposition for playing time.
It seems Kansas does have a problem similar to Kentucky, though only on the perimeter.
This should be a good problem to have. We've seen Kansas squander depth before by not giving gifted players enough minutes during the year, and then needing that depth in March but not having it because those players collected too much rust over the past months to 'knock it off" during tournament time.
Will Bill use a platoon system for his perimeter players?
Or will Bill issue playing time based on recent practice efforts?
Or will Bill simply bench some of his talent, and hope he doesn't pay an ultimate price down the road?
Being an American, through-and-through, I value the concept of competition. Competition forces guys to step up and produce. Produce or sit. But watching Kentucky's "socialized platoon system" has challenged my views. It seems like Calipari has convinced his players to "buy in" to his platoon system. In doing so, his players seem to be united even closer as a team. It still doesn't mean guys aren't competing, including for extra minutes, but it has largely removed a lot of the pressure of playing in a system that is "all or nothing." The system based on pure competition can actually divide players and create team issues. We just experienced a taste of that when we lost Kansas basketball diehard, Conner Frankamp. And Conner would have earned some key minutes this year.
Using Kentucky as the experiment, it seems that players like to feel a certain level of consistency. They want to know they will be a part of every game, a key part, and they are okay if their minutes shift a few plus or minus depending on their recent efforts in practice. The pressure has been reduced, so the focus is basketball, with a looser feel, but still very competitive.
These ideas are still new. We will all see how Kentucky's season progresses with the platoon system. Rest assured, for the most part, Calipari will keep this system all year. He has made the commitment to his players, and they have embraced it... so far!
Kansas can not afford to lose another player to transfer, especially coming from a highly-touted player. That is not the message we need to send to recruits considering Kansas. This would quickly send us back to lower recruits, back when our recruiting pitch involved words about how tough it was to get into the starting lineup at Kansas.
"He has a better chance becoming a coach and with KU's coaching tree, he just passed on his best chance for that."
That was my thoughts, too.
I wonder if that even played into his mind.
I think he's so focused on wanting to play a big part for a team somewhere, that everything else gets pushed aside.
I would hope his dad would be thinking about that. And realistic about his chances of playing in the league. Not many guys have what it takes to make it in Europe. There are more opportunities for marginal players, but it's a tough way to go... leaving family and friends far, far away.... having to deal with language and cultural issues. Most guys just go try to make good bucks for a couple of years to give them a cushion for starting something else back here... like... coaching!
" I come to the conclusion that KU just wasn't prepared."
I agree, that we weren't prepared properly for that game. A big part of it was this game coming too soon in the year. The guys weren't ready to be a team. They still aren't. But we all see the way they are improving. Kentucky had something like 16 more days of practice than us. That is huge.
I kind of wonder if Self played an Izzo.... play a tough schedule early, get your butts kicked, then the players listen to coaches, come together as a team, and by March they play well and still have a chip.
We are all here to remind these guys how bad they stunk against UK. The media mentions it in every breath they talk about Kansas. I hope they keep saying that all year!
"Yeah, the Jayhawks looked good today. They sure have something to prove after getting their bells rung by Kentucky in the slaughter of the year!"
I think we all need to sit back and wait on Kelly.
He'll come around and he'll be a factor come B12 play. He may not have the outside touch Svi has (but who does?), but he has the physicality to go get rebounds, and also to probably d-up some in the paint.... areas where Svi is weak.
Come B12 play, Self's game shifts to possessions. He knows we have to win the battle for possessions. Rebounds, suddenly, become very very important.
And what about recruiting? Self just spoke about how if an elite player doesn't get his minutes other recruiters can get nasty with their attitudes. He doesn't want that. We don't want to lose out on more 5-star recruits because Kelly sits on the bench. Self is hot on the trails of Jaylen Brown... we can't easily land him if Kelly is still here or in the way of Brown's minutes. I won't go as far as saying Kelly will be in the draft, but I think Self has played this thinking either Kelly or Wayne will leave for the draft, making a spot open for Jaylen. I know Self is hot for Jaylen.
Kelly is being pushed now to step up to D1 and Self ball. I'm betting he'll be a different player after Christmas, when they get a lot more practice time. He's also adjusting to college academics. This all fits into the play for Jaylen. Kelly arrives to KU and a long ways from playing D1 basketball, and by March he becomes a gladiator. Anyone remember JoJo? I kind of recall him sitting for a while, too.
Point well taken!
Guys in Europe are much better at time management. Their studies are a lot harder, requiring a lot of time to study. Most Northern European countries now require students to be fluent in at least 3 languages.
The rest of the time, they play ball, not video games. The discipline is at a much higher standard. And when they practice, they practice... little just playing around.
We take so much for granted over here. So do players. They have access to all sorts of opportunities for development, but few take advantage of it. Like file tape.
I think we have to know the difference between "constructive criticism" and "bashing."
I really like every guy on our team. I see potential in all our players. It isn't fair for any of us to bash players. All our guys came to Kansas because they believed in Kansas, Self and crew. We should embrace that fact.
Go, Perry!
I totally agree with your post. We haven't had a player who sees the court as well as Svi since Pierce and his BBIQ can be compared with Pierce, too. He, actually, has an opportunity to become a better open court shooter than Paul, but I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to shoot as well as Paul does with a man tightly guarding him. Pierce is the master on that, including drawing the foul while hitting the shot.
Next summer, Svi needs to develop a tight relationship with Hudy. He needs to focus as much as he can on getting stronger while not losing the rotation on his shot.
The real reason why people are boasting about his shooting isn't based on the rumors of how he hits shots in practice. It's what you see, even on his misses... he has a shooter's rotation on the ball, something only the really great shooters have. That's why everyone who knows much about basketball thinks it is just a matter of time before this kid gets hot in games. I'm expecting him to start lighting it up when B12 play starts. I'm thinking all the teams we play will be focused on matching up with him, and less worried about Perry, Cliff and our other threats.
It would be great to see Svi light up the nets in his first B12 game for about 30. He's definitely been built as a volume shooter, one that can actually pass about as well as he can shoot. Something very, very rare! When this guy gets hot, you'll see Self on the sidelines spinning his arm like a vertical helicopter blade and screaming, "Keep shooting! Keep shooting!" Svi is a guy who could possible put up 30 points in a half. We all know he isn't afraid to shoot, and when he gets hot he should put on a clinic, all by himself!
"That is basically it and with this information we second guess, make wild conjectures and pretend we know more, not only about player management and development but even game strategy than (arguably) the most successful college basketball coach in the last decade. Pretty presumptuous on our part, wouldn't you agree? We all do it and I do it myself, although I always try to give Coach Self the benefit of the doubt since, as shown above, he has a hell of a lot more information that I do.This is just my opinion and I am sure some fellow posters will tell me I am all wrong."
That entire post you put up gives us all things to think about, and we are all making wild conjectures. That's why coaches like to steer players away from forums like ours. We can make convincing arguments based on tiny bits of true facts... that doesn't mean those arguments are sound, and they definitely aren't based on the facts coaches are blessed with.
We all throw out our two cents... and that is what this forum is about. It's pure fan-tasy.
But I think it is good to post what you posted, now and then, so posters stay grounded in the truth, which is... we are all making wild conjectures!
I idolized Sir Charles. I played that kind of game... undersized but own the boards. So I laugh when I read about us being undersized.
It truly is the size of the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog in the fight.
Frank is proving that out.
We easily can match our rebounding edge that we usually have, even with this short team. I can see Frank averaging 5+ rebounds a game, far more than the typical Kansas PG. Cliff is going to become a very good rebounder. Perry is starting to play more aggressive basketball and has the potential to become a good rebounder. Bam-Bam is a scrappy guy, capable of rebounds. Landen and Hunter.... yes and yes.
And then what about our other guards? What about Wayne, Kelly and Brannen? Those guys should be snagging several rebounds.
I really think this team could develop into one of our better rebounding teams, even comparing with years of having bigs like Withey, TRob and Embiid.
Hard to believe that little Sir Charles used to win NBA rebounding titles!
I just built a scenario that totally cut out Brannen. Yikes!
So maybe give Svi a few less minutes... say 20. Build Brannen into about a 15 minute player.
Svi may end up being a better player than Brannen, but we need to keep feeding Brannen minutes so he is game ready by March. One problem last year was Brannen didn't get enough minutes during conference and he wasn't game ready in March. We can't waste away talented depth this year. We need to make sure all our talented guys are getting some minutes.
Good depth needs to be one of our weapons this year, especially since height won't be one of them!
I think the focus shouldn't be on Kelly not playing.
I think the focus should be on how to use Svi. The kid has game. He's really a 2... but his height says 3... though he sees the court like a PG should.
Self has mentioned all year that Wayne could be played anything from 1 to 4. That was a huge mistake. Wayne needs to stay a 2.
Kelly needs to stay a 3.
Frank is a PG.
And Svi? Svi should play some of 1 through 3. He definitely needs to get some grooming at 1. He's our big guard answer if we want to play big ball with teams like Kentucky. Wayne isn't a PG.
Svi should be used as an enhancement player for this team. Instead... he's been used to unsettle players. I have no doubt that he was a big part of why Conner left. And now he's giving grief to Kelly, even though Kelly shouldn't be starting yet or playing much until he gets on track with Self ball.
It's still too early to tell. But I hope, by conference play, Self figures it out. If Kelly's game comes along, I'd like to see him start at the 3, and Wayne at the 2, and Frank at PG (or maybe Devonte). And then I'd like to see our 6th man be Svi. And I'd like to see Svi get about 28 minutes a game, subbing in anywhere from PG to 3.
Then we are using Svi as a team enhancement, and he'll just be unsettling to other teams!
There are not many slow guards in the MVC. There are slower guards in the B12. Mid-majors tend to have small, quick guards. They swarm like nats!
"Alexander isn't a classic back to the basket scorer"
I don't think we know what Cliff is yet. He hasn't showed us a lot of back to the basket moves yet. He's mostly been about taking lobs for slams, or muscling up a shot off a rebound.
I can't even recall seeing him make a basket off of having his back to the basket. Anyone remember if he has?
He needs to focus on using his strength, along with enough footwork so he can leverage his strength without fouling. Getting position by using his footwork and strength, then being able to finish strong at the rim. Swing his arms around with the ball and two-handed smack downs. He should watch old footage of NBA players, like Sir Charles Barkley.
"Guys and Gals who knows maybe that UK loss is the very thing KU basketball and it's fans needed? Just saying."
Right on!
Yeah.... we lack swagger. Real swagger... the kind you have to earn... the kind you can't inherit just because your jersey says "Kansas."
That's what we've been missing. And that swagger should tell opponents, "Yeah, we got it! Try to take it away from us! Go on, try!"
Last time we had some swagger was TRob. We made it to the championship game without a single McDs AA.
I'm not sarcastic. Of course, Kansas is intense. But we play a different game. We play guard play based on having big guards. WSU's game is based on small guards... a better fit for Conner. Look... Conner got edged out by a 17 yr old shooting guard that has something like 9 inches of height on him!
"“I really connected with Coach Marshall,” Frankamp said. “(WSU coaches) all sound very intense and they live and breathe basketball. They can help my game improve a ton.”"
I think he's right. If Conner wants to continue playing basketball after college, he'll need to up his game, and the area where he needs it most is defense. He needs to play that level of intensity they require at WSU... full court pressure... half court traps... WSU plays more x-axis style ball because they don't usually recruit big guards.
Good luck, Conner!
"I know I have went off the rails a little, but lets face it, the Spurs and the team play they play works for basketball. It might not be flashy or the in thing to do, but to me it's what the game is about. Five guys working together, competing as one."
Couldn't have said it better!
Right on!
Good reads in here.
I'm looking at these guys and wonder why most of the them don't know what a ball fake is. Something so basic. Something you know how to use, to bluff a guy into the air so you can draw a foul. Something you use when a guy has already smoked your shot before. Something you know you need when the defender is overplaying your shot. Something so friggin' basic in basketball. Something I used in junior high. The game has not advanced past the ball fake. Or the head and shoulders fake.
Back in my days, young players got schooled by older players. We didn't need AAU. We got the college-bound guys to play street ball to pickup their toughness, to learn from the old guys (sometimes, as others have mentioned in here, to learn some bad habits, too). That's where I had the opportunity to play big name players who went on to big NBA careers.
We discussed this before... the meltdown of street ball.
Another point I was making in this post is video games. How youth would rather spend their time strengthening their thumbs than putting out the extra effort in something that will help them. Our guys all talk about video games. I know they need something to also relieve themselves from everything else. But does it go too far? Are these guys really developing enough of their game in 4 years?
Think of it this way. Does the medical student have time to play video games and become a doctor? I seriously doubt it. Well, these guys pretty much ALL want to take their game to the next level. NBA money (to some degree) equals medical money (for a while). These guys need to become "Doctors of Basketball" to make it to the next level. That is the level of commitment they must make to get there. And though they would also like to be kids and enjoy their youth playing... they need to make a bigger sacrifice if they want to reach the top. Unless they are born with the extreme height or extra long reach, they need to gain their advantage by working hard pretty much all the time.
I think this gets into who really LOVES the game. Who really LOVES to train. Only SOME really have it in them.
I don't know if Perry LOVES the game. I do think he LOVES to train. I think he's a guy that could easily write his own NBA ticket had he been exposed to street ball in his youth. It would have toughened him up. He would have earned some needed swagger. You can see the missing piece in his game.
@JRyman - Right on about euro players. Euro players are a unique breed. Basketball does not have the social level it has over here. You've got to really WANT to play basketball over there. And you have to SEEK OUT clubs, and even more important, SEEK OUT the few coaches that know how to develop. The problem in Europe has always been coaching. It has constantly improved over the last 30 years, and the networking has definitely improved. So if there is a young talent, it is much easier for him to get connected into a good coach (program) where he can improve. Plus... many euro players come to America to go to basketball camps.
The one constant with euro players... they always (and still today) watch NBA ball. They idolize players and their skill sets, and they tear down the moves, study them, practice them, and incorporate them into their games. It's a much bigger deal then what players do here. Many players here don't really even watch NBA, even though they want to play it. They'd rather play video games.
If I was a D1 coach, I'd always have at least one Int'l player on my team. Just to help educate the others how hard they had to fight to get to where they are at. Svi is a tough kid because he had to fight for what he has. He's only 17 and for the most part, he can school everyone on this team, including coaches. That doesn't mean he isn't being schooled on other parts of the game. He is. He also has a lot to learn on how the game is played over here. It remains a team game, so he has to learn to mesh into the game here.
I'm lost.
I don't understand why elite HS players can come out in their first year of college ball and can play with the big boys.
It rarely happened back in my day. Back then, players usually didn't even play on the same team... schools had JV teams.
How can it be? How can 18 and 19 yr old kids play to the level of 22 and 23 yr olds? How can it be?
I know elite talent has some things going for them. They usually have extra long arms. They have experienced some extra coaching along the way. These are the top players, so...
NO! It still doesn't add up!
Many of us would love to see a KU team without OAD players. But we all had to face the same facts that Bill Self had to (when he lost with a veteran team to a team with OADS); it ain't gonna happen! We simply have too big a hill to climb if we don't stock up with some OADs. It stinks that we just get to start knowing guys that turn around an leave. Next bunch in. Next!
Back to why it doesn't add up.
Could there be reasons why the young studs come in an dominate the old studs?
I wonder why players who play college ball for 4 years don't totally throttle the newbies, regardless of their talent level. They should.
Could it be that they don't really develop as much as they should be?
Could it be that they don't spend the extra hours in the gym?
Could it be that they have things outside of basketball distracting them?
Could it be?
I think I need another shot of VO before I confuse Svi with EJ...
You raise a good point. The point being that Self probably recruits and tries to build teams with players filling out specific roles he wants to see.
Anyone else notice how well Perry is using "pick and pops" on the perimeter?
"I have to part ways with you on Landen not getting more minutes tho, yes he has height, but I've been pretty disappointed about all aspects of his game beyond giving some good breather minutes to others."
We definitely need solid play from either Landen or Hunter... definitely down the stretch of a long season.
Self has to commit minutes to one of these guys. If he doesn't, we'll be toast, especially in games where our bigs get in foul trouble. It's not enough to just have Cliff, Perry and Bam-Bam.
Landen has been at Kansas for a while now, but he is pretty much a newbie in games. He doesn't have near the experience of Bam-Bam or Perry. But he does play fundamental offense. For example, he's the only guy that hedges back the man guarding him to open up a lob pass into him. He does still make basic mistakes (like his high ball screen foul).
Right on!
Frank will have to score sometimes off his drives, or he'll be less effective driving and feeding. It's a tough challenge, but Frank is a tough guy. I have confidence he'll figure it out. He has to know what space he needs to get his shot off, and he has to stay within that buffered space. He can also learn a bit more of the game so he can have more opportunities to score on bigs. That's where he needs to use his body to shield the ball, and use the backboard (when possible) as a better pathway for the ball. On some of those drives, he has to realize his goal is to get the ball to the backboard without getting it blocked (then it's goal tending if they touch it). This is a needed lesson from all our guys on how not to get smoked at the rim.
We've all seen boat loads of little guys shooting (and scoring) on post players at the rim by using the backboard and guarding the ball with their bodies.
Having said all that... most of the time, Frank needs to drive and PASS! If his drive opens up a 3-pt shooter then he needs to do the math, and go for the 3-pt attempt over the 2-pt attempt.
Wayne has been taking some ill-advised shots. He definitely forced up some shots that didn't look natural and flowing at all. That was my point. And when he does that he looks more like a freshman than a sophomore.
It's pretty tough to go 0 for 10.
I don't consider it a slump. He's never going to make a high percentage on some of the shots he took (forcing it). He's just off track right now.
And his feeble stuff attempt at the end was the possession loss when MSU made it a one possession game. That wasn't the Wayne we know. Taking up a weak, one-handed stuff attempt. He should have gone up strong, with both hands on the ball, and smashed it down. The guy can jump out of the gym. Maybe his esteem is down.
I agree. The kid Svi plays more like a veteran than most of our guys. He sees the game better than everyone on our team. Hard to leave a guy like that on the bench. You know, eventually, his shot is going to come, and when it does, this team will be hard to beat. Svi is the only perimeter player we have that can create his shot at will.
Oubre should get some minutes when he plays up to D1 (and Self ball) speed. Let's not forget, Kelly is a 3. He gives us some muscle, which we can really use at the 3, especially with this short team.
Who is our other 3? Wayne? Maybe playing the 3 has created issues for Wayne's game. Wayne is a two.... though... many of us felt he could play anything from a 1 to 4, but maybe that isn't really true.
Svi is definitely not a 3. He just doesn't have the strength. Yet.
Brannen also doesn't have the strength, or the toughness, to play well at the 3. He's a 2.
When we get in B12 play, we will need strength at the 3. League play is all about possessions... and we'll need a decent rebounder at the 3, as well as someone who can d against other strong 3s.
The guy who seems most lost today is Wayne... and I think that has to do with the fact that he is being asked to do different things this year... like play at different positions. I think it has been too much to ask him to play everything from 1 to 4. Now he seems lost. Problem is... we now have two tall 2s that can nail the 3.
I always felt Wayne would like to play some 3... slashing muscle ball. Maybe I'm wrong.
"You say you liked what you saw from our offense, I'm not as sold. It looked like it was Ellis or bust for a lot of the game. If they couldn't get it to Perry or if he wasn't in the game, it was pretty bad. Mason would do what he could, but it's obvious that we're not dynamic enough in the post without Ellis to run high post offense, and with Wayne struggling it really hampers the rest of the perimeter threats."
There are things I'm not thrilled about... mostly... that our #2 guy on offense (Wayne) is yet to show up this year. I'm totally puzzled on Wayne. His game was way off today. Most of his shots were ill-advised. I'm thinking his confidence is off. If he hopes to go to the league next year he certainly isn't starting the year off right. It will be a lot tougher for him to earn confidence at the next level.
What I liked was the structure of our offense. Hey... we just beat MSU and we didn't have a great stat line. But we did generate just enough offense to win.
Now imagine running this offense with an upbeat Wayne... hitting shots from 3 and penetrating. And a few more shots from others, like Svi.
I'll be surprised if this team ends the year NOT hitting a higher % from 3 than in recent years. We've got several capable shooters, but also, this offense favors the shooters more than our past hi/lo "pass fast enough to create spacing" type offense. The offense we are running now has the capability of pulling defenders far out of position, giving our shooters more space. More space should equal better shooting %.
Perry is the key guy to make this work. He has to continue to become a threat all over the offensive floor. That will help create opportunities for all our guys. Throw in Frank's drive and feed, long ball shooting from Svi and Brannen... post scoring with Cliff.... Yes, I think we have a lot to cheer for.
And we have a defense that is starting to apply pressure. I think I have to go back to '08 as the last time we had a perimeter defense capable of pressuring the ball.
It is important that we keep improving every week and we have good fortune of few or no injuries.
"UK did a good job by blocking his shots and Texas and even Oklahoma are going to do the same."
UK did a horrible job of stopping Frank from driving. They did a great job of blocking his shots. The key is for Frank to pass off on his drives and only take the shot when he can get it over the defense. Texas lost their PG, and Frank will be able to drive by their stubby PG with ease. Set your DVR for next Friday..... Kentucky vs Texas This should be a good game to analyze Texas. I caught their win against UCONN and they already showed quite a bit of capability. I was amazed at how much muscle Myles Turner has already put on. He used to be a skinny boy. Not any longer! I guess they give those guys steroid-fed longhorn meat for din-din!
The key is to create off the drive, not gun it off the drive. Driving guards tear down defensive structure, opening shooters up.
"the rule interpretations killed us, but worse was Tharpe and Ellis on D. And then throw in the absense of Embiid!"
Oh so true! We also could have played better defense all around, but Tharpe and Ellis were atrocious. Self later said he coached it wrong. He kept telling guys not to foul, so they just backed off the pressure.
This current team is already a better defending team then what we took into March last year (after losing Embiid).
The big warning going off in my head is Wayne. His game has all but vanished.
I'm going to make a stab at what I think is wrong with Wayne. My guess is Wayne is a bit of a slow learner. Self has definitely changed up his offense this year and I think Wayne is almost as off-track as Kelly is.
I hope that is the issue, and I hope both of these guys play about 500% better after their Christmas break, when these guys practice a lot longer.
What I found to be most-fascinating about this game was the last few seconds. We were up by 3 and Self ran the in-bounds play to Bam-Bam. He's only a 63% FT shooter.
I think Self is trying to boost his confidence. Luckily Bam-Bam knocked down both FTs to ice the game!
Frank is starting to realize that he must put his body between the defender and the ball, if he hopes to get up his shot in the post area. The other thing he has to do is use the backboard right... once he gets the ball to the backboard it is goal tending if they touch it.
Extreme kudos to Frank for crashing the boards, and proving, once again, that height is over-rated! If he continues to go 30+ minutes a game I expect he'll average at least 5+ rpg. Funny.... Frank has become our rebounding "equalizer" for our missing height!
There is no one in the country that can stop Frank from driving. No one. He's starting to do a better job with his drives.... starting to see more and set up better scoring situations.
We didn't always execute well... but I like what I see of our offense. It looked like a mix of a 1-3-1 and 2-1-2 set where we try to work the high post (FT line). We mix our motion from both pass and drive. This is so much more interesting than the old hi-lo.
I think we are going to have a very effective offense this year, with a higher % of taken (and made) 3-ptrs.
Svi is like a breath of fresh air! He hasn't exactly been scorching the nets... but when was the last time we had a guy who knew how to use a shot fake? His first half buzzer beater was beautiful, and what you expect to see from shooters in the league (or on their way). He's going to help teach Brannen to become a better shooter. I think Svi is helping all our guys see more of the court. That's what happens when you have a guy who sees more.... he helps the guys he practices with see more, too.
I'm not sure why Landen didn't get more minutes. We complain about our lack of height, and we have an effective 6'10" post player on the bench for most of the game. I'm guessing he's in the middle of some "Self toughening." Hard to believe, since he has more fundamentals than everyone else on the team.
I agree... and he is starting to pop some 3s. It feels like every time he hits a 3 he picks up a bit of swagger... something he has needed for a long time.
"Don't you think the killer instinct thing was at least partially on display by the nice finish?"
Finishing well is probably the #1 characteristic you want to see in a team.
But for me... "killer instinct" is the instinct of pouncing on your prey when you already have them down to finish the job. Killer instinct is another positive characteristic you want to have because it prevents you from always having to finish well just to win.
We clearly were the better team. We brought the best players, and the better athleticism. There were times when we lowered ourselves to their level of play and Tenn responded with a come back.
Still... it's November and we are young. This was a nice victory, especially on the road in an early tourney, where kids are often distracted by things like Disneyworld.
I hope we bring the focus and effort against Izzo.
I'm not expecting a lot out of Kelly until January (at the earliest). Kelly is in desperate need of the Christmas break, when players have more time to dedicate to the game. Kelly needs that extra time to "get it"... at least, get enough of the game where he can start translating his skill set to D1 ball (and Self ball).
Right now, D1 basketball has swallowed up Kelly. He's lost out there.
He just needs more reps, more times of coaches pounding it into him during practice... and after that he'll need some positive play on the court to lift his confidence back.
He's going to be a great player, he just needs time.
We've been hearing about Perry's potential since his days at Wichita Heights, where he was a scoring monster, setting city league scoring records and being more than a builder of stats.
Perry's play at Kansas, up until now, is best expressed as a stat line. Perry has consistently lifted his numbers since becoming a Jayhawk. Those numbers help his team chalk up wins. But sometimes a player needs to earn an asterisk. And beside that asterisk it should make note of exceptional play. It should mention "MVP" and it should mention how a player stepped up to take charge.
We all see Perry as a timid guy. A guy who gets his points while playing invisible. It's time Perry became visible.
Perry has been playing with a more dominant tone ever since his play was smacked down by Kentucky. That game had to smack some sense into Perry. He was playing against players who will mostly play at the next level and are near his age. Perry took a smacking from his peers.
Today, Perry is faced with another challenge. Going toe=to-toe with another blue blood program. Going toe-to-toe with his peers once again. He will be doing so surrounded by his team full of young guys... guys that need to witness elders stepping up and taking charge. Perry needs to step up, not only for himself, but for his team and the Jayhawk mascot representing more than a century of basketball tradition.
Today's game is within Perry's grasp. He won't be playing against a stacked deck (Kentucky). This is a game of equal proportions, and it will be controlled by players who want it most and are able to express that through the game.
"Asked if he has come to like those “Big Ten” type of games, Ellis said, “I don’t have a problem with it. You want to compete as a player, so I mean, it just makes you better, makes you better as a team, makes you better as a person, so I have no problem with it.”"
(SOURCE - Column: Ellis proving himself at holiday tourney ↗ )
Perry should have already experienced enough hardship games that will make him better later. It's time he proves that all those past thumpings actually did him some good. It's time he stops viewing every hard game as something to learn from, and starts viewing every hard game as something to teach from.
It's time for Perry... and I have no problem with it!
"The perimeter defense, I thought, could be better. I thought they got past our perimeter guys too often......does anyone agree? Interesting that he had Greene in the game for the entire crunch time....I thought Svi might see some more minutes. Jamari had a bad game. Oubre continues to look lost."
I saw the same as you. And, yes, they drove by our perimeter guys too easily. We had plenty of defensive breakdowns in this game.
I, also, thought it was interesting that Greene got the crunch minutes. That may be because he knows the system better than Svi... Svi had some bad moments on defense where he let his man cruise right by him. I don't think we want to run both of those guys at the same time or our interior guys will never see the ball! ;)
This team doesn't seem to have the killer instinct yet, but they did finish this game nicely. They had earlier moments when they could have sealed the victory, but they kept Tenn around.
I watched the game with a good buddy and when Tenn got close, I told him this will be a frustrating game for them because I didn't think they'd get over the hump. Luckily, my crystal ball was working today.
This game came in waves. Our big pushes came off of defense. There were times when we put up some pressure and was rewarded. Those were the moments where our spurts came. And when our defense went soft, everything went soft.... offense... started turning the ball over... bad fouling...
This team needs to keep up the energy, momentum and upbeat attitude! When we do that we are a tough team to beat. When we don't do that we become mediocre real fast!
Nice to see Perry start to assert himself. He was more the leader today, even over Wayne. Wayne's foul was atrocious and brought Tenn back into the game. That's not what we need from one of our team leaders!
There is only so much Hudy can do to prevent injury. They can build muscles and tendons around joints... but in the end, the more guys build up and do more, the more stress they put on the joint. These guys are increasing their verticals.... well... that means harder compression on the joints.
She does help them trim down, and that is a real plus when considering joint compression.
I noticed some stiffness, too. Makes me wonder if he has an injury we aren't hearing about.
We had read so much about him being "Hudyized" and how his vertical increased 6 inches or so and what a great shot blocker he was at Arkansas. I think we are all expecting to see more of Hunter, but wonder why we haven't. He had a few good scoring moments in exhibition. And we are complaining about the lack of size when we thought we had the next Cole in Hunter. It really seems everything is right for a guy like Hunter to get some minutes, especially now before Cliff gets totally engaged in Self ball.
"Amazing, isn't it. Tharpe didn't leave because of his daughter. It was just a blatant lie. But we knew that, didn't we?"
You just described the real reason why Tharpe was removed. He lost his credibility. His walk wasn't matching his talk.
Compare him with Tyshawn. Tyshawn had quite a few problems at Kansas. He was constantly in Self's dog house. However... Tyshawn didn't fill the air with bs and then not put the effort into matching his words.
I'm afraid Naa still doesn't get it. Leadership is based on trust. And it works that way in the NBA, too. He might get a few minutes and make some points/assists. But that leap into real minutes relates to trust. Gotta have it. The worst thing you can do is promise and then not perform to the promise. That is why Naa was advised to leave.
I think I'd keep Perry at the 4, and then variate him through the post with occasions to pop out for the trey. Perry will have more opportunities at trey if he's still the 4, because some of the 4s won't be good perimeter defenders. Plus... Perry popping out can help remove opponent's rebounding 4 from the low post, opening up possibilities for KU rebounds. Oubre will still get some treys with his role as slasher.
The key is for these guys to start playing as a team. Look for the open shooter and set enough screens to constantly free up a shooter. That's what teams do!
We've got to have a more active offense, and be just a bit less about having three guys on the perimeter passing back and forth with crisp passes hoping it creates enough scoring space or a seam. We need to actually CREATE some offense with MOVEMENT!
I wish we played offense more in the style of the SA Spurs. MOTION! And through it opportunities come on all parts of the court... perimeter... midrange... low post.... because they create isolations where you want them.
Many times our guys go off to special camps over the summer to improve their game. I'd like Coach Self to go to a private special summer camp with Coach Pop next summer. Develop a more contemporary offense, one that he knows works at the next level and he can recruit off of instead of fighting the image of the hi/lo with recruits. It's time we land a top PG and 2.
You want to see KU really nailing 3s? This will be the answer because the offense works and opens up recruiting on top perimeter players.
"Self's has said before that he thinks good teams prefer being pressed."
Yes, he said that. But he shouldn't have because he, basically, inferred many of his teams were not good teams. I've never actually seen a Self team "prefer" to be pressed. I've seen many commit big time TOs under presses and perimeter guard pressure.
"Svi on the court makes the others look short."
Heck... the guy is only a 17 yr old kid. He's probably growing!
Maybe he's our answer for March. Maybe he'll be a footer by then!
"How exactly are you supposed to deny an entry pass to someone six inches taller?"
You'll have to review some Charles Barkley tape for that answer. Unfortunately, I'm not sure college basketball refs will allow the contact.