"The kid might be the only player on the squad who sees the court and is capable of thinking and taking action a step ahead of opponents."
Isn't it amazing that it took having a player like Svi to realize how little of the court the rest of the team sees?
I wish we could talk to someone who was near the floor for that Kentucky game. Size differences don't show up well on TV. I think we would all have a different appreciation for that game if we all sat close to the court.
I don't know what Self is going to do if Perry and Wayne continue with their same timid play. He's counting on those guys to be leaders and to run the pep rally on the floor. Granted, there wasn't much to get excited about in that game, but the job is still theirs to do, and the boys needs cheerleaders most when getting pounded.
Maybe Self should see if Kevin Young has some cousins playing in HS right now...
" Famous Alum known for "More Cowbell!""
I'll never ask him the time, because I know where his pocket watch has been!
I'm there....
I'm at that place. Laughing sad tears.
You nailed the agony of probably most of us in here.
This is more than a game for us. It is an expression of what we want to see in the real world: honest, hard working people with lofty goals. Humble, thoughtful. We want to see it played out in a game. We want to see the villain go down to defeat.... again and again, again and again.
It feels like the wrong side is winning. The side of relentless greed and unethical practices.
The worst part is watching these kids who are stuck in the middle. We were all kids once. We all know you have just one shot at youth. One shot at the magic. One shot at your dreams. One shot at your memories.
What will be these kids memories?
I enjoyed magic at KU. I rode my bike up the hill every morning before 8am (often in the snow) so I could play ball in AFH. There were towels around the track so you could dry your shoes before going on the hardwoods. That was my magic. I knew it when it was happening, and I cherished every second of it.
Are these kids focused on the simple things that produce magic? How can they leave Kansas basketball after only one year? They seem to be in a rush to leave their childhood. They must not be enjoying their stay in Lawrence like many of us enjoyed our stay. I can walk the streets of Lawrence today and I can point to places all over town and tell magic stories from my school days. There isn't enough money in the NBA to trade for those experiences. No way. We all know you have just one shot at youth.
Their childhoods end when they play ball for money. When they live on the road in a bazaar lifestyle. No more college town joy. Welcome to the big city. Defend yourselves because others want your job, and the dime in your pocket. Welcome to adulthood. Now get your azz to the back of the line!
I guess it's just the times. When we were kids, our parents would have to call us in at night or we would play outside all night. Kids today live in their own worlds of gameboys.
@wissoxfan83 - I hear you loud and clear! I'll steer my kid away from a basketball... towards a ball, bat and glove! There is just too much bull snit around this game of basketball to take it serious... whereas baseball is still baseball... give or take a few steroid and drug enhancement situations.
;)
Withey and Cole don't play minutes. TRob, is limited, too. I've watched a few games with TRob and he wasn't playing back to the basket.
Now that I think about it... Am I wrong on this... Isn't Embiid the only guy we have in the NBA focused on back to the basket ball?
I've seen TRob a couple of times and I couldn't really tell what his offense was in the league.
The twins both like to go all over the court and score, even Kieff.
Seems like NBA teams want 5 guards out there, and the taller guys they call "post players."
I don't know why the hi-lo can't be adapted to a more hybrid offense. Why can't we go into the low post immediately on possessions if our post player is open, and then he feed cutters, or perimeter guys who are there for more than catch & shoot and they drive on the feed out? It seems like we could run a lot more offense out of that set than we do.
And we pull out one post player to possibly hit midrange or even threes. Give everyone a chance to do more. It seems like we kind of do that in exhibition games. Perry shooting 3s.
I think we could run some hi-lo and turn it to a hybrid between hi-lo and dribble-drive. The ball can go into the post and come out and our perimeter guys can still drive the ball.
I just think coaches like Calipari on the recruiting trail use our hi-lo offense against us.
"You mention the hi-low's possible limitations in attracting bigs, but didnt Cliff choose KU/Self for our playstyle?"
Yes... I just think there are less Cliffs out there and more Myles. And look at pro ball. Hi-lo structured offenses are a thing of the past. HS recruits follow the NBA. The NBA is their dream. They see what is happening. The game has transformed away from grinding post games. It's all about the 3s.
To be honest, most teams would like to stop recruiting power bigs that can't handle the ball and shoot from the perimeter. That's the trend in the NBA.
Think about it. Would you rather recruit a 6'8" to 6'11" big who can handle the ball, even bring it up court, and can run like a gazelle and shoot the lights out from 3? Or would you rather recruit a guy that weighs 25lbs more, can't dribble, can't handle the ball up the court, can't shoot the perimeter shot... probably can't guard his opponent who is netting 3s....
Don't get me wrong. I love Cliff. I love the power game. I love the inside schmack. But I"m a dried up oldie who is in love with a game that doesn't exist the way it used to. Big players didn't shoot outside the lane back in my days. It is a different game. The 3 has changed basketball forever, and it isn't coming back to the old post game.
Maybe that can change. I'd like to see it go back. I got a smile on my face when a banged-up Embiid was picked 3rd. But I have my doubts.
The problem with the hi-lo is the spacing. It's a game where you have to work the low post. You may shoot a high %, but your opposition only has to shoot 2/3rds of your percentage for a tie. The math isn't there. It's not the end of the 2-pt shot, it's just the game pushing away from a low post offense.
And fans love it. Fans want to see the dribble drive.. motion offense.... they want to see guys shake and bake. There are few of us left that can really appreciate a guy who can score with his back to the basket.
One of the biggest reasons why I'm a Bill Self guy is his focus on the hi-lo. But I don't think the hi-lo favors KU any longer. We are now perceived as a top school by top recruits, but we don't land enough of the right players. We should be turning down talent. KU has respect. But many players want to come but don't because we can't help their game the right way. That's why we lost Myles Turner. Myles Christmas list was to come to Kansas and run an offense where he could pop out and be the next Kevin Durant. Myles has a high respect for Bill Self, and he loved the idea of building his body with Hudy. But he didn't come. I'm not buying the junk that he wanted to stay home. He didn't want to be stuck in the low post and go to the NBA without developing more outside game and to be known for an outside game. That's a fact that he has shared publicly for a long long time.
I don't see us landing Thon Maker. He's a guy who can almost play pg. He won't want to come and hang out on offense in a box. Not gonna happen.
And how can we land the top shelf guards? What elite guard would want to play this hi-lo? Our hi-lo is about working out of the post, proper spacing, don't let the ball stick, and work it until someone has an open shot. It's called "catch and shoot." Catch and shoot is a very basic talent of any guard trying to make it in the league. They also need to know how to handle the ball, alpha dog drive and finish or feed, and most, be a creator. Our offense isn't about creating... it is about team sharing... sharing the ball at high speeds. Yes. our offense makes perfect sense to everyone except the recruit. We constantly get high efficiency out of the talent level we recruit. But it doesn't help us land top recruits. That's the rub. Then we had Mr. Wigs... but we didn't have an offense where he could showcase or develop from. I still don't know what our offense was last year. It wasn't hi-lo or dribble-drive. It was a mess, then we'd feed Wigs and everyone would shut down and he would struggle with a shot.
We are gearing up for top recruits. We are building fancy suites. We are mimicking Kentucky. The last step would be to partially mimic their offense. We have to be able to offer the same diversity in development that these guys will need at the next level.
Compare D.Rose with Chalmers. I love Mario. We all do. But he doesn't have the skill set Rose has. Rose has been hampered with injuries. But when he wasn't he was blistering the league. He is a creator. Mario is a team passing guy. He's not a creator. Mario fit in on a team with creators, like DWade and LeBron. Most teams need a creator.
"Until I turned to watch " Buying Alaska ". Lol."
Seriously? My wife doesn't want me to watch that show because she's afraid I might try to uproot the fam and move north!
You've got more balls than a bucket on a driving range!
Very interesting thread here.
@HighEliteMajor - You have definitely painted the worse case scenario. I think we all (and you) find it unlikely to come to this.
KENTUCKY WINS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS! We all are feeling this as likely. If it does happen, the ramifications will flow all the way to Lawrence. If Kentucky wins it is likely that most of their 9 AAs turn pro. That is a big bunch of talent, and it helps keep Kansas players in Kansas another year. I wouldn't expect any of the Kansas guys to declare too soon right after the season. They will wait it out and see how many guys enter first. Surely Self can convince them to have patience.
KANSAS REACHES THE ELITE 8! I can see this team reaching the Sweet 16 or Elite 8. Obviously, we could win it all or we could go out in the first round. But I'm projecting here... Reaching that spot would make it a wash on whether these guys go or stay. It's high enough to think they may do better staying one more year, And it isn't too high to think that another year would be a demotion.
Svi ain't going anywhere... unless?! Svi has definite incentive to stay in the USA, build his abilities and cred, and try to go to the real next level... the NBA. He definitely has the potential to make it. It seems unlikely he would want to return to his home country, which seems to be on the edge of war, unless he needed to for personal reasons, like take care of an ailing family member. That risk is there for all players. Svi is no dummy. He knows that every day spent at Kansas is a resume building day. I can't see him leaving until 3 or 4 years.
I am as nervous as everyone else. It wasn't a good sign not signing someone in the early period. We have scholie openings even now, so there was no threat that we wouldn't have been able to meet the commitment.
I don't see us winning any heads-up battles with Kentucky. Not after Tuesday. So we can scratch some of that talent pool further.
Self needs to retool.
His position in the recruiting world is one big contradiction.
He's known as a hi-lo guy and here we are without adequate bigs! Doesn't that say plenty! Maybe the loss of Manning has something to do with this, or maybe the hi-lo just doesn't help in recruiting bigs. Most of the bigs today don't want to go to a school where they will be forced to spend it all in the low post.
The game of basketball has changed. Look at the NBA... the game isn't focused on interior presence. The game is focused on treysville. Pro teams want to recruit bigs that can shoot the trey. This not only helps them make more treys, it helps pull out opposing teams' bigs to guard the trey line. This is probably the biggest reason why Self can't sell the hi-lo to bigs anymore!
A big strike against us recruiting Myles Turner was the fact that we didn't have an offensive structure that could help Myles get to the next level. Myles would have been willing to leave Texas. Myles is not a big that should be restricted to the low post. His goal was to be the next Kevin Durant.
The hi-lo does not help us recruit guards either. Guards like a dribble drive... motion offense... something to help them develop more than "catch and shoot."
I think we need to face facts, and the hi-lo offense is at the heart of our recruiting woes. That... and Kentucky!
BTW: where in the heck is the BOUNCE we were supposed to receive for sending Wigs and Embiid #1 and #3 in the draft?
Good post... especially your take on midrange. You really nailed it when you talk about putting in the reps. It takes patience to work on these reps because players will practice shooting midrange, get hot and then quit practicing them and go back out to treysville. They have to realize that the more they practice in midrange, the more deadly they will be in a game situation. It is very easy to hit those shots without defense and a crowd with big lights on.
I remember back in my day... and I'm thinking of a guy I played with who became a real stud offensive player, and his forte was midrange. Other team members would heckle him for working in so many reps at midrange. He definitely got the last laugh as he raised his ppg to probably high 20s.
Midrange is a mindset. Some guys need to tweak down their egos and be real about the game. No one is saying to abandon the 3-point line, or stop finishing at the rim. I think Kobe made his mark in midrange before mastering the entire offensive end. Jordan did, too.
And while we are talking about midrange... our most needed midrange shot is only worth 1-point but can and will lose us several games this year if we don't become proficient: FREE THROWS! We missed 12 against Kentucky, and several of those were the front end of a 1-and-1. There's about half the points in making up that deficit!
I didn't give myself the option of watching this game again. I'm surprised I made it through the entire game. I wanted to hear the last criticisms and kudos after the game.. but when I was done I tossed it off my DVR. It would probably help us all to watch it again because the first time was too emotional and easy to remember things incorrectly. I just don't think I have the stomach to see it again.
I think we will quickly see an improvement from what we saw against Kentucky. Their size impacted us in many ways. Part of it was their ability to swat shots in the paint off the drives of ALL of our guys, not just Frank! We had NOTHING good in the paint.
I think we are all a bit unfair with Frank. At least Frank had the fortitude to drive the ball. I think our perspective of the game wasn't fair. We didn't experience what Frank experienced.
When playing a normal size team, what Frank did would have worked. Yes, he took too many ill-advised shots. But I think many of those shots he didn't want to take, but was forced into it because no one was open. The length of Kentucky closed passing lanes for Frank. Long wingspans were extended and when Frank drove the ball, he then had no where to go but to try another shot.
The problem I see with Frank is control. This is the exact problem all our guards have had over the years. One that sticks out with me is TT. He constantly drove the ball and was out of control and got stuck throwing up a bad shot, throwing a TO, or just losing the ball. We watched him learn the game before our very eyes his senior year, when he finally learned to take control of his drives. This was something he learned from John Lucas. Lucas was the master of little guys who could penetrate and be effective in the NBA surrounded by trees. The key is to keep control while driving.
The way to keep control of your drives is to learn to variate your speed on drives and position your body and feet properly, always having your feet under your body and be angled and pointing in the right direction. The biggest thing, IMO, is to manage your speed and variate. Be explosive blowing by a guy then slightly slow it down once you have the driving lane owned. The speed reduction is minimal, but it allows the driver to maintain control. He should be able to stop and not travel, or charge, or be forced in the air with no one to pass to or ability to shoot over the trees. Tyshawn learned this and look what he did his senior year! He took a team without a single McDs AA to the championship game!
Frank is a great candidate for a visit to John Lucas. He will really blow it if he doesn't get the proper coaching to turn his game up a notch. He's a guy that could play in the NBA and be one of those little guards that can be effective in certain situations.
We really shouldn't throw Frank under the bus. We should realize where he is in his development, realize what he needs to reach the next level, then plead our case for him to get the right help to get there.
We are kind of contradicting ourselves when we want to see more dribble-drive offense, and then we chop off the head of probably our best driving guard! We all know Frank has a learning curve ahead of him, but we don't help the cause if we just criticize him for trying. I also think Self has a learning curve, too. His forte is hi/lo, not dribble drive. He has to figure out how to teach dribble drive. In that area I give an advantage to Calipari... one area where he knows more about it than Self.
Yeah, it was harsh. And very hard to write.
I am the first one to admit that I'm not fair with Calipari. I can't see straight with that guy. He may be playing by the books. He may not be. But I'm the last guy to write anything objective about him because I just can't stand the guy. I'll admit it. And a big part of what I don't like is that he pushes the status quo on college basketball. I've seen this coming for a long long time. Where he would gain control of the college game, and degrade competitive fairness. Where what we experienced Tuesday would become the norm, and the game would suffer from it. I say all this not because it is Kentucky or Calipari... I'd be even more ticked off if this was Self and Kansas. I would hate to be the culprit of this degradation of the game I love.
I have a hard time rationalizing that he is just that much better of a recruiter than the entire D1 field of coaches. I just don't buy it, and never will. I can not rationalize that these HS kids (and their parents) don't see the value of other coaches and programs to the level this is happening. There is no logic to it. No college coach, playing by the books, has such an unfair advantage to acquire this much talent. He is not the "genie in the bottle."
Anyone in here feel free to call me on this at anytime. When I'm on a Calipari rampage any of you can back me down with, "yeah, but drgnslayr, you can't be objective."
I'm guilty.
But I do feel what I wrote above. And it wasn't all about "hate Calipari." A bigger part of it as how I see college basketball unraveling. I do agree with @nuleafjhawk that the OAD situation is ruining college hoops. And there are other things, too. The over-commercialization and where the actual players can get a college education, but nothing more. Many of these guys face permanent disability from playing college sports. That is something they will have to live with forever and I can't rationalize that they only get free classes from it while the university soaks in millions (actually, it is billions now when you look at endowments, which are largely influenced by sports). There is a big part of my rub.
I think I was 5 yrs old when my dad took me to my first college basketball game. I experienced the magnitude of a big arena, the crowd of screaming fans, nasty salty popcorn and hot dogs made in the 17th-century. It was all magic to me, and through my youth the magic only grew. I've attended probably hundreds of games... from JHS to HS to college to NBA. It is part of my fabric, and I see it as my identity and part of being from Kansas!
Pollard nailed it:
"Of the 32-point margin of defeat, Pollard said: “In the NBA you get beat like that you’ve got a game the next night, but in college they are going to have some practices this week. They’ve got a game Monday (7 p.m. vs. Rider, Allen Fieldhouse). He’ll get ’em back in practice, they’ll be back to playing normal college basketball teams instead of NBA all-star teams and they’re going to be just fine.”"
"Am I wrong to hope for one of those super melt down things to happen to UK? I mean, that would be incredibly awesome!!"
Your frustration makes you think thoughts you shouldn't be thinking. I've done the same. But after calmer thoughts prevail, it's just a game of basketball and we are talking about human life. I think when we have thoughts like that it means we need just a bit more distance from the game. We've made it too big a part of our lives, and we need to look around at other things near us that we should probably put that attention on... like loved ones. I relate very much to what you've been thinking and feeling.
I would disown Kansas basketball if Calipari became the coach. Winning isn't everything. This Kentucky team will probably stomp everyone this year.. but it won't be pretty, and it won't be the game I've always enjoyed. It's just a game of bullying on the playground. And if Kentucky continues to distort the game of basketball, you will see massive herds of fans across America flip the channel to ice hockey and any other game they can get their hands on, because there won't be anything to watch any longer.
Fans across this country all share a common dream; that their team will win it all, either by favorite or by being the next Cinderella. What Kentucky is developing removes that spirit.
Kentucky seems to be building better teams every year. This looks to be their current pinnacle team. But what about next year? Anyone looking at that yet? Do we really think all 9 of those McDs AAs will go pro next year? They've got McD's stacked up higher than McD's can stack burgers.
What you are seeing is the new norm. The platoon system has to work for Calipari, because he will have 9 or 10 McDs AAs next year, the year after that, and the years after that. And imagine if they win it all, and stomp the heads in of everyone, including the rest of the blue bloods. What top tier player will want to go anywhere else but Kentucky? And go somewhere else to get humiliated?
I think this is making a total laughing stock of the entire game of college basketball. Kentucky made Bill Self look really really bad. They will do that to Roy, Coach K, Izzo... They'll make a joke out of everyone.
I could see, if this gets worse, and it goes on for say 5 years, and the fans drop off, and the money tightens... I could see the NCAA finally stepping in and making a recruit system limiting talent on teams. I'm not sure it would be allowed because of federal laws, because we are talking about student-athletes, not pro athletes. Then the education factor comes into play, and a coach like Calipari might even game the system to have what he has now.
Kentucky will dig their own grave. No teams will want to play them. I hope we never play them again. I'd rather play Mizzou. Uk is playing demoralizing basketball... dehumanizing... they are set to rape teams, players, fans... strip them of their dignity, murder their dreams. I've never felt it this bad in KU chat rooms. Fans feel stripped and naked. Is Coach Self really a great coach? Really? We have to ask ourselves that? We are searching for identity. That wasn't just a loss, it was rape.
What @Lulufulu mentioned is thoughts that probably raced through many of your heads. Those thoughts went through mine. I don't think us fans are people normally having these thoughts. I don't think that way about the guy who cut in front of me at the market, or the guy who flipped me off with his road rage.
Basketball is truly America's game. And in Kansas... this is who we are. We identify with having the fortune of Dr. Naismith walking our very campus. We appreciate good basketball, excellent coaching, hard fought battles. We don't appreciate agency teams stock full of McD's AAs tromping on the dreams of other teams and players, from Kansas or anywhere else. I'd feel just as sick to my stomach to watch what happened to us see it happen to anyone else. Those are the kinds of events that scar players permanently... or can. Players can also get stronger from it. Just like rape. Some people spin their world in a victim circle perpetually afterwards, some actually develop into something else that is stronger because they don't want to lose to rapists their entire life.
Maybe I"m overreacting. Maybe Kansas just played so so bad. And maybe Kentucky won't have it so easy all year. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I think Kentucky is going to murder teams, while high-5ing, hugging and laughing.... right over the dreams of guys who have given so much of their time and energy to the game... a game that helped form their identity. And identity of hopes and dreams. Shattered in a couple of hours. A game turned into a nightmare. A game where they used to have a sense of control, and now they experience no control, only pain, and left in an identity crisis. Like I said... rape.
It is hard to think positive about Jayhawk basketball right after this stomping. But this game was like sending a group of new army recruits into slaughter. Kentucky is stacked and had more time to prepare. I'm not saying we will be able to beat Kentucky in March. I'm not saying that about any team!
We can't just compare ourselves to Kentucky. We first must compare ourselves to teams in our league. Yes... OU and UT look tough. Yeah, I remember when KD played for UT. We thought they would kill us then, too.
Look at history. Look at the last 10 years because we have the same coach today. We are the only team that seems to know how to play on the road in our league. And we don't play too shabby at home. There is a reason why we won 10 consecutive titles. It's the same reason that holds true today; "the B12 championship goes through Lawrence!" And until that statement is proven otherwise, it remains the best indicator for what will come.
Let's see what Texas does against Kentucky. I bet Myles Turner gets batted around like a praying mantis.
I feel the same way you do. Calipari couldn't get a date with my sister or daughter... over my dead body! His recent interview, questioning his past made him stink more. He turned it into a recruiting interview. And then him and Rose settle out of court on the lawsuit from Memphis ticket holders. I understand why he wouldn't want to go to court. He's like a kid standing beside an empty cookie jar with crumbs around his lips, but no proof he ate them!
And it is worse for all of us because we feel like we become the victim of his cheating (if he is cheating). Imagine Chalmers missed that shot? We later wouldn't have been given the crown.
"With a game like we just had, is our ceiling really that much higher for the rest of the season?"
Yes. We will improve dramatically over the next months... especially over Christmas, when guys can just focus on ball and we are allowed longer practices.
This game came too early. We are young, and we played a team that had been practicing about TWICE as long as we have!
Have some patience. We've lost to a lot worse teams than Kentucky in November!
Getting humiliated should help these guys focus harder and remain humble.
I think we are going to be pretty dang good this year. We just have to settle down. We aren't used to getting our doors blown off, but we have to remember the facts:
Kentucky is damn good! Never been a D1 team with more talent on it.
Kentucky had more than 2 extra weeks practice. Heck... we haven't had time to do much of anything yet.
We are still a very young team. Very young teams struggle until the newbies start catching on.
The issue we have with size is a bit over-rated. We are used to being taller than our opponents so we freak out now if we aren't. And it showed up big against Kentucky because they are the tallest team ever to assemble in NCAA history. We still would have been smoked if Embiid was with us. He would have been swarmed under the basket for rebounds, just like Bam-Bam and Perry was. The key factor in this game was that we didn't block off the boards. How many times did UK score off their own missed FTs? That has little to do with height and everything to do with not blocking out.
Rebounding has always been a problem at Kansas. Yes... you heard me right! Even though we typically had (in the past) huge rebounding edges over our opponents. We also had SIZE, and we used our size to mask that we never have been really good at blocking out for rebounds. Maybe this year our coaches will finally realize they have to work hard on teaching rebounding fundamentals. Perhaps they became lazy (just like our players did) in teaching blocking out because we typically had a huge rebounding edge. We will not have that edge this year if we don't block out! We either learn to do it or we give up several possessions each game and lose some games because we don't have enough possessions.
The focus on this team is wrong. We are busy now trying to teach these young guys the Self play book on offense, and some of stuff on M2M defense when the immediate focus has to be on fundamentals. I think Svi might be our only player that knows what a shot fake is. None of our guys know how to block out. None.
This is stuff they should have learned in HS... actually... they should have learned it in JHS.
Basics come first. Then... teach offensive and defensive schemes.
Am I the only one that listened to the half time report when Greenberg and others were SCREAMING at KU to use shot fakes?!
I've been screaming that stuff in here for years! Shot fakes are an art and a skill. Those have to be worked on. You are selling something you aren't going to do. Blocking the boards out also takes some skill because you also need to have an idea where the rebound is going.
I saw something I didn't know prior to.
Kentucky had something like 16 days more of practice than us before this game. Talk about a crazy advantage! I wondered why they looked more polished than us, especially playing a platoon system.
@ralster - I like your comparisons, and I would take the bait if Kentucky didn't play with 2 teams. They can't really get in foul trouble.. and they play fresh legs every few minutes. Kentucky will wear down Duke and UNC... especially in March. March comes and most teams are already a bit beat down from a long season, then the big lights come on. There is big stress in March, and guys do rise to the occasion... but that rise comes with a cost; energy. As long as Kentucky brings motivation to their games, there isn't another team that can run with them. It's brute force basketball.
Kentucky let up on us in the 2nd half. They really put the romp on us because we melted down. We were exhausted.
Now imagine Kentucky in March, in a heated battle and a tied half time score. They will come out and put the big pressure on. They'll run and run and run. That's all they have to do to win. They are playing 2 teams. They actually have at least 12 guys that can really ball, maybe 13.
I'm speculating that they won't have a super melt down this year. Like... Kentucky goes under NCAA investigation... or a plane crash... or Ebola hits the campus of Kentucky. But otherwise... they can afford to lose a couple of guys to injury and they can mend over it and still dominate.
I've never seen a college team anywhere near this team in quantity talent. It is overwhelming. The size is one aspect... but just the quantity and quality is over the top!
When you know you are going to be contested on the dunk, you've got to bring your most brutal dunk to the hole. Your only thought is preventing a defender from blocking you before you get the ball high enough to slam down. And if you have your body leveraged, if a defender gets in the way of your slam down there is a good chance he'll break his wrist/fingers/hand, trapping it between the ball and the rim. I've seen it happen 3 or 4 times now. Then use the two-hand throw down. Your leverage should have the entire weight of your body behind it because you are in the air coming down, so your arms are flexed with the strength to hold up to your own weight, similar to a bench press of your own weight. And your grip on that ball also has to be with a similar force.
The mindset is simple. When you are capable of slamming easily (like being 6'8" ) then when you go up your mind is set to the FACT that you OWN that rim! Any wimpy attitude will show and you'll look the fool when you get smoked.
Cliff is the only one on this team that gets that. Before him, it was TRob.
I'd give Perry an exercise... send him into the vid room and show him Chocolate Thunder for hours. Tell him to visualize it in his consciousness. Then spend hours learning what a throw down is.
Play at the rim is not for the meek!
Cauley-Stein was just one more recuit at the time. He was a recruit swimming in a sea of other players.
This wouldn't be a point if we landed Myles Turner. We did land Embiid.
We need a crystal ball to know who we should land. Or do the shotgun approach of Calipari and go hard after everyone, and don't be caught without size.
I am amazed... that right here at Big Man U... we are weak in the post concerning depth.
Maybe it is time for Self to revamp his strategy. Switch to a motion offense. Stress development at the guard position. And run a hybrid offense somewhere between UCONN and Kentucky.
What worried me about this Kentucky game before the tip-off was Bill saying we won't change who we are for anyone. I'm not sure that is always the best strategy. We continually ran the ball right into the teeth of Kentucky's big men and they continually rejected our shots. I'd like to see us run strategy and heavy tweaks for who we are about to play. All these guys need to learn fakes on their shots, regardless if we play Kentucky or Emporia State. There is so much basic basketball that we don't teach our guys. Even the broadcast guys were screaming it out at halftime.
I believe we are too rigid. And that makes us outrageously predictable. We must be one of the easiest teams to scout.
When was the last time we pulled a rabbit out of our hat?
Perry is extremely talented, but his personality is a beta-dog, not an alpha-dog. I've been saying for two years now I'd like to own him for a summer and find some old street ball and make him spend a summer earning his cred on the street. That's the only way I see how to break him out of his designer personality. The best thing that could happen is he gets his arse kicked all the way off the court! He'd go home and cry, lick his wounds, look himself in the mirror and say to himself, "I'm not taking this sh_t any longer!" Funny how a good butt kicking can turn someone's life around to a hard focus and plenty of fortitude! Unfortunately, if Perry doesn't have something like this happen to him, his pro days will be spent in Europe, when he really does have the skill set to the play in the league.
What was Perry doing taking the ball to the hole and not slamming it down?
I think we focus a little too hard on National Championships in November. We really haven't even begun to play ball. We have lots of youth, and many guys with good upside.
This will be a different team after Christmas, a better team.... it always is.
We have pulled some real crapola play in November before... we've lost to a lot worse teams than Kentucky.
I'm looking forward to a great conference season. We've got a talented conference and it will be good times watching it all go down.
And we'll be there in March.
Let's not forget how 2011-2012 ended. We were a team without a single AA. We suffered a horrible tragedy with the loss of TRob's mom. And we went on to be National Runner-up!
I think this team can develop into every bit of what we had with that team, but we have to show some patience.
I apologize for bemoaning my grief about Kentucky dominance. We can't swim in that pool of swill any longer. We just have to do what every team has to do: play it one game at a time.
This team will surely play tougher after being humiliated this week.
I've always said this... we need to carry a chip. We last carried a chip when TRob lost his mom, and it took us all the way to the championship game. This team should carry this humiliating loss on their shoulders, and from here on out they should play for blood!
Here is my assessment of this team:
My overall view is that we will end up a better team in March and perform better in March than we did last year. It is a sketchy statement because it does matter if I'm considering Embiid's absence.
Frank - Frank still has a ways to go before he is a legit PG. He seemed to panic in this game and showed a bit too much of what he did last year. Too many drives where he tries to finish himself. But... Kentucky had us sped up and a bit freaked out.
Devonte - Looks good. He's obviously young and inexperienced, and experience is what really counts at point. But I have little doubt that he'll get a big chunk of the PG PT before long.
Wayne - He is my mystery guy. I thought he was healthy and know he is capable of being explosive if he is healthy. Anything could be going on here. Maybe he is physically healthy but needs mental time to heal and play full bore.
Perry - Perry's numbers on paper have always looked good. He's a guy I've followed all through school leading up to Kansas, and he is a guy I've always been a bit disappointed in because he doesn't push hard enough. He needs some alpha dog blood and he will limit his professional career without it. That is a pity.
Kelly - He simply doesn't know what he is doing out there yet. The light bulb will come on some day, hopefully when we move into league play. He will continue to have more to offer.
Cliff - He is in the same boat as Kelly. He's like a power tool that isn't plugged in yet. But he will become a big asset for us.
Brannen - I swear the guy reads my blog on him. He has a long ways to go, but his stance has improved and it is starting to look like he will engage better in the game by lowering his center of gravity.
Svi - He's a guy who grew up playing euro-style ball and we can't forget his age. He sees the game probably better than all other players we have. He will definitely help us this year... some on shooting... some on being a play maker.
Landen - He wasn't a top tier recruit when he came to Kansas, and he still isn't top tier talent, but he has improved a great deal since coming to Kansas. He is our most fundamentally-sound player. That's a good thing to have available for post minutes.
Hunter - Who knows what he can do? He seems like a decent shot blocker, and he has some offense. But he isn't getting much time yet.
Bam-Bam - I can't say absolutely anything negative about Jamari. He was barely capable of playing D1 ball anywhere when he arrived in Lawrence. He may not compete with Kentucky bigs... but this was a guy who lived in a car and has little basketball experience. He is being asked to do a lot more than he should and he's doing his best. He doesn't lack energy... he just needs to round out his skill set and add more experience. He will be playing ball at the next level. Most likely euro ball.
This is not one of our better individual talent teams. But it may be one of our better group that can learn to play team ball. We've seen moments of good defensive pressure, even in the Kentucky game. Let's not forget how winded these guys were. Kentucky replaced their guys every 4 or 5 minutes. Wave after wave. Add in the nerves, and you've got guys that are exhausted and playing on spirit alone.
We may not lose so many guys to an early exit this year. Maybe 1 or maybe 2... I don't see more than that. We should have the nucleus of a good team next year and just need to nail down some size for the post.
I see good things ahead for Kansas basketball... just not necessarily a possible title. Mostly because of Kentucky.
"And board rats that think KU played poorly against UK are not letting in just how incredibly talented UK is and how many pieces this year's KU team is missing."
I think that sort of sums up everything. KU does have holes. And UK has platoons. In order to make that a game last night Calipari would have to let Self pick any 3 players he wanted for the game (to switch sides to KU). Maybe 4 players.
If Embiid and Wigs had stayed?
We still would have lost.
I still think people haven't digested Coach Larry's comment that Kentucky has the best 2 teams in Division 1.
I understand Calipari. He is able to bring in that much talent, so he does. He's like a machine... a corporate machine. The bylaws state nothing about right and wrong or empathy for anyone. The bottom line is make money. The bottom line for Cal is to win. He is able to scrape off the icing off the top of the cake, so he does. I don't blame him. But it isn't good for college hoops. And if he continues to even build stronger teams, it will take a toll on D1 gates. Fans need to feel that their team has a legitimate chance at the big prize. That feeling is starting to dissipate... even at blue bloods, like Kansas.
I'm trying to think of what other team in college basketball that can match up with Kentucky, and I can't think of one. That doesn't mean Kentucky goes undefeated... but it makes it highly likely they win out in March.
I know basketball has just begun, and we have a long season ahead... but I only see improvements for this Kentucky team. Last night Aaron had a scare with his wrist. Most teams would panic. I'm sure he is okay, but if he was out for the year, his departure would just be a tiny talent loss for this team. They can afford to lose 3 or 4 of their top players and still be a Final Four team.
My blood pressure is inversely related to our score. Our score was really low last night. My blood pressure was so high I think I was floating on the ceiling like a helium balloon.
I don't throw stuff, but I say plenty, and sometimes scream. I understand why many people call TV a "stupid box"... because I look really stupid during Jayhawk games. I'm usually asked politely why I'm screaming at pixels. After the first time the polite question is not so polite.
I never want to be in public during a game. Anything could happen, and if we aren't playing well someone will surely see me suffering and add to it.
I still think we are in for a great season!
I am no longer in a state of delusion in regards to us possibly beating Kentucky. But we will battle for a B12 title, and hopefully we will advance far in March. There is always possibilities for a NC, even if it is slight.
I hope the guys take this lump with dignity and just fight that much harder and become a better team!
"This was a beatdown that did not resemble any Kansas team in a long, long time."
I think we must give Kentucky a lot of the credit. We are young, short, and we missed a boat load of FTs and didn't play great, but the guys also showed a base level of composure while being completely disemboweled by the Wildcats.
And I know Self could have approached this game differently where the outcome might have been closer. But I really don't see a way for him to coach us to victory on this one. I thought there was a way... but it would only happen if Kentucky beat themselves.
I applaud our players. That was an impossible game and even though the outcome stunk.... they put out plenty of effort and heart in that discouraging loss.
Check to see if you have an influx of hits out of Kentucky. I'm sure many of their fans want to read us up today as they enjoy themselves.
HEM... another one of your spectacular posts!
I agree with everything you say. You are a guy I'd like my son to be coached by.
We could have done a lot of things different. We could have done what I was also saying to do... screen off the boards and fakes.... head/body/ball fakes. Even the halftime guys were screaming for Kansas to use fakes and rebound.
We could have done all of that and only lost by 20.
Yes... Kentucky can be beat. But this is one time I will quote Caipari... "they determine their own outcome." When Kentucky shows up with enthusiasm, they are going to crush everyone. This is like a remake of Houston's Phi Slama Jama but times 2. They have 2 teams.
I believe we are on the cusp of seeing college basketball turned into a circus freak show. Kentucky's talent and height is to the extreme of being a "freak show."
All of the great coaching and game strategy isn't going to produce a win on Kentucky. It might bring the game closer, and some hope that Kentucky's players are focused on the cheerleaders... but it isn't going to produce a win. This is one time I can say that Kansas does NOT control their destiny. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional. I've been totally delusional in thinking we could play the right game and beat them. No friggin' way.
If you are a guy who focuses hard on National Championships, then I wouldn't focus too hard on this year or from here on out. Better take the smaller victories and just enjoy those. How about another B12 title?
Yes, this Kansas team will improve. But don't you think Kentucky will improve, too? And who will improve more? Which team has the most upside? Seriously?
That game wasn't basketball. That game was just a form of humiliation. I'm not going to shell out our guys for not doing better because it still wouldn't have produced a win. They are college kids fighting to improve and there was no way they were going to make it over that hill last night. I was in denial about all of this until I witnessed this mugging.
Kentucky is in line for the title... and the title for years to come. They've already got a gigantic leap on next year. And do you think all 9 of those AAs are going to declare for the draft this spring? Guess again.
How hard is it going to be for Calipari to recruit in the future? His job gets easier all the time. His sales pitch of "play with AAs every day at practice and you'll develop for the NBA" seems to work. And if that isn't bad enough... his sales pitch moving forward will be "do you really want to play someplace else... do you want to be humiliated when you play us!" Realize the impact it has every time Kentucky drubs a blue blood school!
I'm not going to get into whether or not Calipari is playing legal ball. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he is just completely skilled at recruiting. But recruiting to this level creates an ugly game. It creates a game that I don't really care if my son plays. It's a game of ugliness based just on the ability to collect height and talent and shove it on one team. That is the formula moving forward. None of it is real coaching... it is babysitting... and it is acting like a player's agent. That is the future of coaching college ball because Calipari is proving his system works. And his system, moving forward, is going to humiliate all the blue bloods.
Calipari's system is being mimicked at Kansas. Do you really think we thought of the idea to build luxury suites for our players to live in?
That game was nauseating to me. Not just because I'm a Jayhawk fan. I would have had equal vomitus from watching Kentucky do the same thing to Duke or another blue blood. What nauseates me is the ability for one team to collect 9 AAs and then go out and commit rape on everyone else that works hard and has dreams. That game was beyond humiliating. It was the kind of game that can strip players and coaches of identity. The discrepancy made us look like HS ball.
I won't be a fan of Kansas basketball if we become like this. I fret to think of a Jayhawk team with 9 AAs. It just isn't right to stack the deck like that... where it hardly matters what you do, as long as you don't fight amongst yourselves... you will win! What do I teach my son out of all this... to grow a wingspan to match a Cessna or forget basketball? That is pretty much it and why I hope to direct him towards baseball. I'm not blaming Kentucky for this aspect... it is just the direction basketball is headed.
But what about the coaching? Calipari isn't really a coach. He's a babysitter and an agent. He brings in kids that have been coached up and they just need a choreographer. But I will hand some credit out somewhere.... the twins made huge improvements from last year! I don't know if that came from Cal or the fact that these guys are just freaks of nature anyways and were bound to leap forward. Well... they leaped forward!
"Which begs the question...do we really want a player whose defining criteria is a Snapchat post? I mean...really?"
Didn't think I would ever say this... but after the raping last night... YES!
RENTLESS ONSLAUGHT!
Sorry for the computer glitch... this was mistakenly posted on the UK fan site!
RENTLESS ONSLAUGHT!
That is what we need to do!
Bring it, Kentucky!
Rock Chalk!
"I must confess some disappointment that we two are the only ones into the Hype/Counter-Hype game so far. :grinning: I just got home. Reporting for duty..."
Hey, wait a minute! I just got home, too!
We are a couple hours away from taking the hammer-drill to the Wildcats!
Mickelson has been busy watching old tapes of Cole during the UNC game in '08 and is ready for the job!
"This move is representative of the REASONS why Cal gets these recruits."
Hey... thanks for your post! This thread is about finding out what Calipari does to snare the high amount of top tier recruits. I agree with you that there are several reasons... and even Snapchat could be one of them, if for no other reason than conducting activities that HS students relate to. That can have an impact, and maybe it is just a sign of other things they do to relate to HS students.
GROUND & POUND!
It's football at it's best. Keep the ball on the ground, and continue to pound your opponent into submission.
Think of short, stout running backs... running close to the ground and hard to tackle because of their low center of gravity.
Think Frank Mason!
"The Mole" needs to come out and play the most aggressive game of his career. Drive drive drive on the twins. And when you get by them either pop a quick jumper, or hit an open man, or use a fake and get fouled!
Create create create... we need Frank to be a Picasso today and churn paintings out faster than he can count!
"Cha-ching!"... that's what I'm talking about!
"Bring us the head of the Kentucky Wildcat mascot pithed on a spike, afterwards, so that @drgnslayr can at least get a hint of what Meso-American Ball once was like!!!!"
...and throw the carcass over the temple's edge into the sea while asking for mercy from the Sun God!
I'm cool with preserving life, whether from beast or man... so we can just take the mascot's costume and perform the ritual.
I agree with your post. Yes, the Harrison twins still might be in D1 at 6'1"... just not at Kentucky!
I definitely don't discount the value of height. Wish we had our current skill level and all our guys grew another 3" last night!
That's it!
But in here, even with all the good basketball minds the focus is strictly on height. And why should it be different in here, it is the same in the NBA?
Everyone thinks the Harrison twins are so good. Imagine if they were 6'1"? You think they would even be skilled enough to play D1 ball? Doubtful.
I'm not saying this Kentucky team isn't skilled. They are. But a big part of their skill level relates to their skill matched with their height. Take their height away and this is not a great team. They probably had more diverse weapons last year with Randle and Young. Both of those guys were alpha dogs and offered unique scoring options. I can't count how many times Young saved their butts.
Obviously, we can't take their height away from them, but we can neutralize a huge part of it by positioning for rebounds. We have several stocky, physical players that should be capable of sealing off around the rim. If they do that well, Kentucky's biggest weapon (offensive rebounding) will be neutralized. Then they have to do what every other team has to do; run successful offense. Then their height is not such a huge factor and they have to be able to shoot well and do other things well.
If Self can get these guys pumped up, not focused on height disadvantages, block out well on the boards, play respectable defense, Self should get his game in the 60s or 70s. Self loves the grind games and this seems like a team capable of winning most grind games.
I'm curious what Self will do with his perimeter defense. It seems like we need to play two styles of perimeter defense. Style #1 would involve high perimeter pressure. Run traps, push the ball to the sidelines, trap more. But if we do this and it backfires, we leave our post guys in a battle with their titans in the post. Or if it works, we create steals, we force Kentucky into speeding up their offense, and we just don't allow them to run any kind of real offense. Style #2 would be to set our perimeter defenders back and see if we can double-team when they feed the ball in the post. Force them to prove their ability to hit the outside shot. We may run some of both of these. Obviously, I'm hopeful in Style #1... a better, more aggressive version of x-axis basketball!
On offense, we need lots of head/body/ball fakes. All these UK guys want to do is block shots. It's like using a screen play in football on a defense with an aggressive line. Get their guys in the air and draw fouls. If you do it well enough you not only put them in foul trouble, you start earning some "respect space" and it becomes much easier to get our shots off (and over the defense). We need lots of off-ball screens, too. Make this a physical game. Kentucky is tall, but also proportionately leaner then us. Use our muscle!
Yes, we have to execute a game plan. If we do, I feel comfortable in predicting victory!
This win could really help build us some poise and esteem moving forward, especially if Kentucky starts playing better and loses few games after this.
Even if Kentucky goes through the season without injuries and they learn to play together fairly well.. they will still carry some disadvantages into March and they will still be a team capable of losing. Last year was not really the best UCONN team and they stuck it to them.
We really just need to do one thing well to beat Kentucky; screen off the boards.
This Kentucky team is not a great shooting team. They rely on second-chance points off of rebounds.
So if we play decent defense and we screen them off the boards, this Kentucky team is headed back to Lexington with a loss.
I could see that platoon system really melting down Kentucky this year.
Think of everything that can go wrong with it...
I don't think it is realistic to have "team A" and "team B." That is what you would truly call a platoon system.
I think Cal will find some kind of hybrid instead, like substituting groupings of guys, like 3 guys at a time that he thinks have developed good chemistry together, and then still doing individual substitutions.
What happens when a guy gets in foul trouble?
What happens when a guy is late for practice and breaks team rules?
What happens when a guy gets hurt?
What happens when one team does a lot better than the other team? Still limit both to a half of basketball?
It just seems like his platoon system creates a sort of expectation level for the players, and later on, when the system is changed to give certain players more time, certain players less time, it is asking for trouble.
I wonder if Cal made this platoon system a commitment to his players? Maybe even to some while being recruited?
How did he land some of these guys who knew they were going to have to fight for minutes? Kentucky didn't exactly own the NBA draft last summer.... all those guys back... makes it seem like some underachieving.
The very thought of a platoon system illustrates oversimplifying the game.
From what I've heard, from sources really not that close to the locker room, is that Kelly is just having a few issues adjusting to D1 and Self. He needs a bit more breathing room on learning plays, philosophy, etc. I believe he is 100% healthy and he has a great attitude.
I hope I didn't come across like I am carrying a prejudicial torch on anyone... because I'm not. This is a case where I'm speaking about athletes as a whole. There are plenty of excellent student-athletes out there, many have played at Kansas.
But there are many top recruits that are not good students. This is a known fact. So when such a high number of elite athletes are on one team and there really isn't a great reason why they all should have committed to the same school, that makes me wonder.
I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything directly... but I am wondering what is going on and it is enough of a red flag that if I was in a position to investigate the academics at Kentucky, I would do so.
I would investigate Kansas, too, if we were hauling in that many top recruits and there was no apparent reason why we should be landing that high concentrate.
Our recruit classes are a long ways away from what Kentucky lands in top tier talent. So does anyone really think Calipari is that much better of a recruiter than Self? Or HS elites really want to attend UK over KU by the margin we are seeing? I'm just not buying it. And I'm not buying it from a guy who has been very close to previous academic issues with his players... or at least, one player we know about that was nailed on his SAT.
Maybe it is just the fact that UK has a great dorm for their players. Well..... we shall see what our new dorm does for us soon enough, and from what I see, our dorm may even be a notch up on Kentucky's.
Anyone in here still buying the "charisma" angle?
Thanks for posting the info on OU. They are going to be tough!
But I believe the same line that has been said now for a decade:
"The championship for the B12 will go through Lawrence."
There is a lot to that. It's a deflection of another fact... KU is the only effective road team in the B12. So it sort of helps us when there are 3 or 4 really good teams in our league, because they knock each other off constantly and help us out.
We've got two major factors helping us; first, we are tough to beat at home. Second, we are tough to beat on the road! We only need to win X-amount of road games, and all (or all but 1) games at home to win our conference. We make it look easy, mostly because we know how to win on the road!
True. But UK has a big part of their team back for year 2 now. Those guys have to make it over the academic bar.
We may have had a player or two going that route. But we graduate most of our guys, even if they go on to the pros.
Maybe a big part of it is just ethics. Imagine yourself a college coach.... will you do absolutely ANYTHING to win?
These kids are student-athletes, and lets face it, some of these athletes are not involved much in being students. But as a college coach, do you recruit the guys that really aren't students? It does feel like "gaming the system" and I'm not sure I would sleep well at night having a team full of guys that don't have a basic grasp of the 3-Rs. Maybe other coaches feel the same. Maybe they have a line they won't cross.
I know we are on the books for recruiting and offering most of the top talent. We have to be if we expect to get the athletes that can legitimately pass a college-level class. That doesn't mean we sign them. We've had players with academic issues... like BMac and Traylor. I believe Self had discussions with them about working in the class room. They were instructed where the bar was and how they could become eligible.
"What could it be?"
I really think a big part of it is the academics. Schools like Kansas and Duke promote educational standards, even to athletes.
Kansas recruits players like Ellis, a 4-pt GPA student. It is less likely to see the smart kids going to Calipari. A big chunk of top talent are not good students. They may get through by the skin of their teeth, and I think Cal sells it to them how he can help them with their academics.
Let's face it, even for good HS students, college is an intimidating step. Imagine what it must be like for athletes that aren't good students and want (and do) spend all their energy, time and focus on their sport?
It is just my opinion, but I think Cal is doing something other coaches are not doing. The recruiting discrepancy between Cal and all other D1 coaches is immense. Yes, Kansas is starting to get more top tier athletes... but we are a long ways from garnering the amount of top tier that Cal does. And people really think Cal just has a magic charm over these guys? Really? I remember hearing that for quite some time now and people are just starting to see through that lie. The next lie to defeat is that they get to practice against top talent every day. There is something to that, but not to the point where you can line your bench with McD AAs. It just doesn't add up.
Thanks for the spirited post!
If we keep working on what we did Friday, we stand a good chance of beating Kentucky.
Backcourt pressure, pinching on the sidelines... I think some people learned what can happen when an athletic Kansas team starts applying pressure!
We created several TOs, and even better, when we ran pressure we completely sped up the Gauchos. I'm not sure we would have won that game if we didn't use the pressure, because when we started to lax, they were able to run better offense.
Really... the issue for us is to control tempo. We ran pressure on the Gauchos and sped them up and they couldn't score... but we also sped ourselves up to an ineffective speed. We have to get better at speeding up on defense and then running a bit more methodical offense. It might still help if we run fairly quick offense, but not if we aren't being effective.
It was great seeing us create some TOs. I'm trying to think of the last Jayhawk team to do that... hmmmm.... '08?
"Notice how the substitutions settled down in the second half?"
Yes... and it paid off. We needed guys to settle into a rhythm and that happened when we found a group that played well together. Sometimes all the substitutions just add chaos and disjoint... especially with a young bunch. Guys need to find more team chemistry if they hope to maintain a good flow when subbing frequently.
Welcome! Been a long time!
"Nothing personal if he's @drgnslayr friend"
This was my first encounter with Zenger, though I plan to bump into him again. He mentioned how hard he is focused on making football profitable and how tired he is of basketball having to fund football. After that, I went into full sales pitch mode for Bowen.
I know that many of us will have a lot more patience (and attend a lot more games) with a KU man coaching our team!