KU BB leaders:

Devonte, Frank and Wayne, all strong and capable of leading by example and leading by body language and words.

Leadership is not an issue this year. Devonte is a leader already (he was chosen by a neutral third party during military training last year as the leader of the group...as a freshman!

Here is the most intriguing question: can we play tough, tight and very physical D but loose, free-flowing O at the same time? How does our main man Coach Self and his staff teach the players to be totally committed to the team concept but not to overpass and overthink on O?

Huge congrats to KU players and coaches: GOLD!

Realistic expectations for KU 2015-16:

1) another Big 12 championship (plan B is a tie)
2) a 30 win season (plan B is 29 wins, including the tourneys)
3) an Final Four (plan B is Elite Eight)

As we discussed at the end of last season, it all depends on injuries/eligibilities, match ups and the maturation/development of a few players. But I really like the depth and the moxy, the mix of newbies and the vets, the evolution of our style and our HCBS.

I like this quote: italicised textitalicised text* I believe it was Nic and his 'tude that made our guys quit looking to the bench after misses and mistakes, like whipped currs. They played like confident players, mistakes and all.

We will be an elite defensive team, with toughness and depth right out of the gate. We will defend, get the 50-50 balls and rebound with more energy and determination than the last two years.

Will the offense loosen up? We will be afraid to shoot the three early in the shot clock? Will we look to the bench for approval / approbation / permission...will we play a little less system offense, a little less high-lo pass and pass and pass some more? Will we run and gun and dribble-drive to shoot or pass? Let 'em play a little freer on O this year coach!

We have got enough shooters and play makers and my prediction is that Coach will encourage a more aggressive offensive "make a play" individual style, and three point shooting than over the past two years.

This will certainly make a few board rats happy!

RCJH!!!

In case you missed it:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/02/coach-k-not-best-coach-rick-pitino-bill-self-records-ncaa-tournament-losses-1000 ↗

Fun Facts

Most Final Four teams in history:

18 North Carolina

17 Kentucky, UCLA*

16 Duke

14 Kansas

10 Louisville, Ohio State*

10 Michigan State

Kansas Tourney record through 2014:

138 games, 96 wins, 42 losses = winning percentage = .696

Kentucky:

163 ; 116 ; 47 ; .712

Duke

133 ; 99 ; 34 ; .744

North Carolina

153 ; 110 ; 43 ; .719

Most tourney games by coach:

Mike Krzyzewski Duke 88

Dean Smith North Carolina 65

Roy Williams Kansas, North Carolina 65

Jim Boeheim Syracuse 53

Rick Pitino Providence, Kentucky, Louisville 53

Jim Calhoun Connecticut 49

John Wooden UCLA 47

Lute Olson Iowa, Arizona 46

Tom Izzo Michigan State 46

Bob Knight Indiana, Texas Tech 45

Denny Crum Louisville 42

most final fours by coach

Mike Krzyzewski Duke 12

John Wooden UCLA 12

Dean Smith North Carolina 11

Tom Izzo Michigan State 7

Rick Pitino Providence, Kentucky, Louisville 7

Roy Williams North Carolina, Kansas 7

Denny Crum Louisville 6

Adolph Rupp Kentucky 6

Bob Knight Indiana 5

Guy Lewis Houston 5

Lute Olson Iowa, Arizona 5

Bill Self is only 52. Here is his record at KU:

2003–04 Kansas 24–9 12–4 T–2nd NCAA Elite Eight

2004–05 Kansas 23–7 12–4 T–1st NCAA Round of 64

2005–06 Kansas 25–8 13–3 T–1st NCAA Round of 64

2006–07 Kansas 33–5 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight

2007–08 Kansas 37–3 13–3 T–1st NCAA Champions

2008–09 Kansas 27–8 14–2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen

2009–10 Kansas 33–3 15–1 1st NCAA Round of 32

2010–11 Kansas 35–3 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight

2011–12 Kansas 32–7 16–2 1st NCAA Runner-up

2012–13 Kansas 31–6 14–4 T–1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen

2013–14 Kansas 25–10 14–4 1st NCAA Round of 32

2014–15 Kansas 27–9 13–5 1st NCAA Round of 32

@Wigs2

No the conference winner is not a crap shoot, especially in the Big 12 where we play each team twice, home and away. There is some luck (Blake Griffin being hurt the day we play OU for the conf title, for example), but overall, year after year, the best team will win.

In a series (like the NBA playoffs) the best team will almost always win. But in one game, with little prep, at college level, playing against the top competition...the best team does not always win.

Our 2008 NC team was one of the best, but not a clear dominant team (like UK this year). Down by 9 with a minute to go and we win in OT? Everything has to fall just right and there are so many good teams, one guy gets hot...voila.

Check out year in and year out performance, in pre-conf play, conf play - we know this one with 11 straight titles - and post-conf (ncaa tourney) and you will see that KU is at the top or near the top in the Self era.

The string of 11 conf titles is actually more impressive than a national title or two but the media and fans do not feel that way.

RCJH!

There are favorites every year to make the final four, and those teams do have more talent and preparedness, and have better odds to advance b/c they are better teams. The best programs (like KU) expect to be in the hunt, and rightfully so.

But every year a great team does not make it out of the second round, and another over performs for a while (this year MSU who was no where near the level of the other three teams, or KU in 2012).

IMO, this year we did not have a great team, we got a tough match up second round, and got beat by a better, more motivated team.

RCJH!

@HighEliteMajor

Thanks for the comments. Could we have reached the final four, sure. We did it in 2012. But should we have reached the final four, certainly not. We were not one of the best teams in the nation this year, and certainly not with Cliff (assuming Cliff would have peaked at just the right time which is a generous assumption).

The Final Four is indeed a crap shoot, depending upon match ups, luck, getting hot at the right time, injuries, eligibility issues, one guy making a miracle play at just the right time, etc.

My point is your postings often seem to criticize the coach b/c he does not make it to every final four, and it is somehow his fault b/c he certainly has the talent, and therefore he is doing a poor job, and (full circle) it is his fault we are under performing in March.

I enjoy your analysis but I think this is not a good conclusion and unfair to players, fans and coach.

Winning is very hard. Winning consistently is even harder. Peaking at the right time, with the right team, getting the right match ups, getting lucky and having guys healthy and elgible, etc. are a lot of variables and most of them are not due to coaching.

KU players, teams and our coach have actually done very well in the Self era, most years meeting or exceeding expectations. The tourney has been disappointing the last two years, and the "Killer Bs" have created a complex within the KU nation. The 2012 team was unbelievable and they way overachieved...and got lucky to make it to the finals. . .

The lack of our big man at the 5 during the last two tourneys has been far more significant and the source of our loses than the coaching. This year, we missed Cliff and last year we really missed Embiid. That's the way it goes in March and with a single elimination tourney.

My conclusion: Watching the elite teams this year, and watching KU this year (and last year), there is simply no way we were among the elite teams, and not final four talent. Maybe last year with Embiid, maybe...but certainly not this year, even with Cliff.

Respectfully, you write your post, concluding:

*Seeing Self's comments from last night really just make me angry. This team began the season as a Final Four team. This team was 21-4.

But that all changed, didn't it? We ended 6-5 and played embarrassingly bad against WSU. As Landen Lucas said, WSU just wanted it more.

I'm not sure there is any supposed injury that affects "want to." Though maybe a media member could ask Self. I'm sure he'd speculate on that. *

Respectively, this is in my opinion a cheap shot at the coach, the program and the players,

Having talent and having an eite team are not at all the same thing. How do they mature over the year as individuals and as a team? Duke's freshman actually came together as a unit and outperformed at just the right time. UK's talent was ridiculous (maybe they had the two best teams in the nation), The Badgers were senior laden with a great group and talented big men and they had been there last year...these were only the elite teams in the nation this year.

KU was just nowhere near that level. We could have got lucky, won another game or two, but probably got what we deserved at our level of performance and year end team talent (ability to perfom in a game, not rankings or potential).

I am of the opinion that WSU has had better teams than KU the last two years, and that our lose in the second round this year had more to do with them, than us. Great - game on! We accept the challenge and it is good for us and our program.

But throwing the coach under the bus for not reaching the final four this year...?

I enjoy the board and your posts and the others as well - next year, with one new elite talent big (and we will certainly get one), we will be better and ready to make a run.

Cheers!

RCJH

Being a head coach at this level involves three things:

Recruiting - can you get the horses? can you mix and match the OAD, TAD with the three and four year scholarship athletes? Can you get that occasional transfer or Juco stud? Can you transition kids out of the program without a scandal? What kind of reputation do you have during in-house visits? Would you want your kid to be mentored by the coach? Is there a BB/College Life/Academic balance in a good environment? Does he have their backs? etc.

Coach Self's grade: A-

Representing - does the coach represent the kids and the university well? Does he honestly evaluate his team and have a reasonable public-private dialogue with fans and the student-athletes? Is he good in his relations relations with press and alumni? Is he a good fundraiser? Does he add value to the university as an institution of higher learning (academics) and a first class program? Let's not underestimate the very heavy lifting required by our BB coach in light of our FB weakness, etc.

Coach Self's Grade: A+

Coaching - practice, conditioning, weights, schemes, using talent, getting the most from your players, consistent effort (especially on the D side of the ball), adjustments at half time, motivating players to practice and play hard, creating an opportunity for your best guys to make a play at crunch time (put them in position to make winning plays), preparation and scouting, very intense calm and confident to inspire our young men to perform at the highest level of their abilities, etc.

Coach Self's Grade: B+

I used to think HCBS was at the same level as the great ones (straight A')s, but i think he has gone stall on the O side of the ball, and is evolving too slowly to the evolution of the game. I agree with HEM and others who believe we should "free the three" a little more and let the guards and wings dribble-drive instead of feed the post systematically and "run his stuff" rather than take an open three early in the shot clock. Still too much back to the basket, old school philosophy in the way our head coach AND assistant coaches play offense.

We should run more and press more. We should play more guys more minutes and keep legs fresher. We should adjust a little more our schemes to the talent we have, year in and year out. We should play a little more zone (occasionally), mix up our O and D sets within a simplified overall philosophy.

To get great guards, we need to let them create more and not just be post feeders. Our team play is outstanding but sometimes we overpass. We need to penetrate more on O and less move the ball side to side around the perimeter. I really like our D and our E (effort).

Coach Self should certainly learn to be a little less stubborn and pig-headed ... but he is one of the very best and I believe he is adjusting and will continue to evolve, following in the footsteps of Coach K. We are in excellent hands and we would want no one other than our dear head coach Bill Self at the helm. He is an upgrade over Roy and one of the top five as per the criteria above in the nation. Rock ChalKk

RCJH!

@HighEliteMajor - you sir are bitter and delusional.

I enjoy your posts but the tirades against Coach Self seriously take away from your otherwise interesting analysis. Railing against a coach or manager usually involves deep rooted parental issues...

And there is NO WAY the KU team last year was a Final Four talent. Get real.

WSU had a better team than KU the last two years. Period.

Lighten up and enjoy the team and the game. No excuses? Hip surgery is a pretty major operation. Our coach and our guys are fine, competitive and have plenty of 'want to win'.

RCJH!

Late in games this season, Coach K has put the ball in his freshman point guard's hands and told his bigs to set ball screens and let Jones go to work. That's how he'd make the go-ahead three with just over four minutes left and the dagger three that put the Badgers away.

"Throughout the season, when it's gotten to late-game situations, we've gone to him, and he's made the right play," Scheyer said. "So tonight was going to be no different for us. What he did to come through, I don't know how many people there were tonight—60,000 or 70,000—you would think there was five people the way Tyus was. He lives for those moments, and he put us on his back."

Okafor, the best player on the roster, sat and watched most of the comeback saddled with four fouls.

Scheyer and assistant coach Jeff Capel could see the hurt on his face. Okafor was ready to take the blame if Duke lost.

"You're going to win the game for us," Scheyer told him. "You're going to win the game for us."

Okafor came back in with 3:22 left on the clock and his team ahead by one point, and eight seconds later he was spinning around Kaminsky and putting Duke ahead by three. Next possession he followed a Winslow miss and put Duke up five.

"He capped it off for us," Scheyer said. "Other guys kept it going, but he capped it off for us. What he's done as a freshman, I think it's overlooked a little bit, because he's put us on his back so many times and he did the same thing tonight at the end."

http://www.ukathletics.com/blog/2015/04/the-building-of-an-all-american.html ↗

The 25 Most Successful College Basketball Teams Since 2000, Scored By NCAA Tournament Bracket Rules - written in 2013

Matt Lombardi

1. UCLA – 36 Points

Despite the Bruins’ recent struggles (which led to the firing of Ben Howland), the mid-2000s saw great success. UCLA reached three straight Final Fours, even reaching the title game once (losing to Florida). A few Sweet 16 appearances early in the 21st century round out the majority of the scoring for the Bruins, as the school has only produced two NCAA Tournament victories since its Final Four streak ended. UCLA is the only team in the top ten without a National Championship.

1. Syracuse – 38 Points

Despite a four-year period sans scoring (2005-2008), Syracuse finds itself checking in at No. 9. The 2003 National Championship definitely helped the Orange’s cause, as did the 2013 Final Four run. The Cuse has reached the Sweet 16 in seven of the 14 tournaments, but has only reached the Final Four on those two occurences. Four of those seven Sweet 16 appearances have come in the last five years, however.

1. Louisville – 42 Points

Louisville has registered more than half of its points (24) in the last two seasons – that’s what a Final Four run followed up by a National Championship will do. The Cardinals have produced a total of three Final Four appearances, the other coming back in 2005. The school has reached the Elite Eight in five of the past nine years.

1. Kentucky – 44 Points

Kentucky, like Syracuse, had a down period in the mid-2000s that cost it from being higher on the list. The school has produced two Final Four appearances, and similar to Louisville, they were in back-to-back seasons (2011 & 2012). Also, like the Cardinals, the Wildcats won the title in their second trip, knocking off Kansas in the title game. UK was a consistently mediocre tournament participant until Coach Cal arrived.

1. Connecticut – 52 Points

Yes, UConn gets a little screwed here considering it won the 1999 NCAA title, but hey, rules are rules. Still, the Huskies have won the tournament twice since, in both 2004 and 2011. UConn is sixth on the list despite not registering any NCAA victories in six of the 14 seasons this century. The school reached the Final Four on three occasions; the two mentioned above as well as 2009, when it lost to Michigan State in the national semifinal.
The 25 Most Successful College Basketball Teams Since 2000, Scored By NCAA Tournament Bracket Rules

Matt Lombardi

1. Florida (tie) – 59 Points

We all remember the dominance of both the 2006 and 2007 teams that won their respective NCAA titles, but it’s also worth noting that the Gators reached the championship game in 2000, falling to Michigan State. Florida has also made three straight Elite Eight appearances, meaning that the Gators have won at least three games in the NCAA Tournament in six out of the past 14 years. Five seasons without an NCAA win cost Florida a chance at checking in even higher.

1. Duke (tie) – 59 Points

Like Florida, Duke has won two national championships in the 21st century – in 2001 and 2010. The Blue Devils have surprisingly only reached the Final Four one other year, 2004, when they were ousted by UConn in one of the greatest comebacks in NCAA Tournament history. Duke has reached the Sweet 16 in 11 seasons, but has advanced just four times to the Elite Eight. The Blue Devils are consistent, however, winning at least one NCAA game in 12 of the 14 years.

1. Michigan State – 63 Points

Tom Izzo is always mentioned as a great “March coach”, and the statistics completely back it up. Michigan State has reached the Final Four five times this century, winning it all in 2000 and finishing as the runner-up in 2009. Nine Sweet 16 trips in 14 years is another amazing accomplishment, as is the fact that the Spartans have never gone longer than five years in between Final Four appearances. For that theory to hold true, 2014 will need to be a big year in East Lansing.

1. North Carolina – 64 Points

Roy Williams returned the Tar Heels as an elite college basketball program in 2004 after leaving Kansas. He’s since won two national championships (2005 & 2009) at the school, along with notching another Final Four appearance (2008) and three more Elite Eight showings. Throw in the miracle Final Four run in 2000 under Bill Guthridge and you’ve got yourself a scoring machine (for our purposes, at least). But the real irony? It’s the school Williams left that checks in at No. 1.

1. Kansas – 68 Points

I’ll admit, I was even surprised. UNC, Duke, Florida and UConn have all won more championships this century than Kansas, so how could the Jayhawks come out on top? Consistency. Kansas has reached four Final Fours, winning the 2008 national title and finishing as the runner up in both 2003 and 2012. The Jayhawks also have three more Elite Eight appearances, making it seven years in which they’ve won at least three games. Like Duke, there are only two years (2005 & 2006) in which they didn’t win an NCAA Tournament game. When all the numbers were tallied, it was clear that Kansas is the team that has performed (statistically) the best in NCAA games since 2000. Rock Chalk.

@jaybate-1.0

Good post! That's the JB we know and love...you and HEM get the gold star for analysis, with several others close behind.

Good comments! RCJH! This team actually overachieved but it could have been a very special year if Cliff had developed and played the last third of the season, and Perry had not got hurt, and we had jacked a few more threes per game, and we had not met this false 7 seed so early, and...

Great website and blog posting by everyone, we had another good (but not great) year...to be continued.

@drgnslayr

I am afraid no one is even close to UK and they probably have the two best teams in the nation! Better than even Vegas odds to win the tourney at the outset (never been seen before in the history of the game).

We gotta cheer for WSU in the next two rounds (heresy for KU fans, I know)...

@drgnslayr

Is this an issue about recruiting OAD players? Or is it that we are teaching a philosophy that takes a long learning curve but OADs and TADs are not here long enough to make good on it? Or is it that we don't have the right assistant coaches that should be here because they know how to develop instead of just recruit?italicised text

Yes, it is. Coach Self is outstanding but we could use some new thinking on the O side of the ball. But now is not the time to pile on. Believe me, our coach and players are hurting bad...

Is Snacks gone? Could that open up a slot for an OC (do any BB teams have this role?)

Certainly we need to shoot more threes and be able to play better one-on-one spread O but also a spread D man-to-man. Both ISU and WSU ate our lunch with individual match ups in the second halves of the last games we lost. Team D was peaking...or so I thought.

Watch WSU beat ND and then the ultimate match up with UK (re last year's match). WSU has been very good the last three years and could now be considered the best in the State. KU has slipped just a little and the Big 12 is not quite the powerhouse we thought it was.

Let's see how WVU can create havoc with UK...wish they only had a day to prepare instead of a week...

@KUinLA

Agree. There was no intent and deliberate "let's hurt Perry so we can win" strategy. Come on, man up JB! We got beat by a better team. Get over it and move on...BTW, Perry had a decent game and the time off the court was minimal (re coach's assessment).

@Hawk8086

To say they wanted it more, meaning we wanted it less, implying a lack of desire/effort/will to win is just not accurate. We were trying just as hard as the other team but we were not as good, as a team, as the other guys.

It does appear that way when one team outperforms another team and on paper one (KU) is better than the other (WSU). But this is simply not the case - even the infamous "effort play" where Kelly was "out hustled" might just be that the other guy is faster than our guy and outran him to the ball.

When their shots are falling and they get loose and confident and comfortable and start believing, and at the same time our shots are not falling and we get tight and stressed, and start pushing harder and it gets even worse, it might look like lack of effort or lack of heart or lack of will to win, but it is not. It could be panic and fear of losing but not lack of effort by the players.

We had a couple of guys who did not show up and played poorly on the biggest stage in that game, but I think it is incorrect and harsh to conclude they had no desire to win and put forth no effort to make it happen.

This is mental team and individual toughness and hard to come by with underclassmen. I really think this team and all our teams at KU really care a lot and want to win just as bad as the other guys, but maybe they were just not quite as good as the other guys on this one night, and as soon as things went south, there was no one to take over and change the dynamic of the game. Lack of seniors and juniors, yes, lack of effort, no.

Sherron, one of the greatest Jayhawks in recent history, could not even get it done and forced the action in that last game loss when he was a senior (like Frank tried to do yesterday). He hurt so badly he did not even have the energy to show up for the year end events ceremony.

No one is claiming he lacked effort or heart or attachment to KU.

Do you really think Baylor and ISU and Virginia and KU players want to win less than the other guys? Competition is hard and everyone can have an off-night in a single elimination tourney (read my post: tourney reality).

In the case of KU vs WSU, it was less about an off-night than getting beat by a better team, in my opinion, and yes in a three or five game series, we would get beat this year with these players, theirs and ours, most of the time.

Very tough for us as KU fans to stomach, but here we are, playing a very strong 7 seed in the second (third) round.

Could we have won - of course! Should we have won - probably not because we are simply not the better team this year.

RCJH - don't hate on our guys. They wanted to win even more than us.

Exactly, plus we know them very well and hope they continue their run!

Congratulations to the boys on a fine season with a disappointing ending.

Big 12 title is a huge accomplishment and the guys hung together in the face of all the adversity. Big 12 as a whole has underperformed in the tourney this but we are still an elite league and we can be very proud of our season (once the sting subsides).

The program is in good shape and our coach and players are hurting even more than us fans, so please refrain from piling on.

RCJH in the thrill of victory AND the agony of defeat!

KU got beat by a better team, pure and simple. WSU deserves all the credit: 2013 Final Four, 2014 perfect season stopped by UK, 2015 another UK match up on the horizon. I hate to say it but we got beat by a better team, period.

The symbolism of the bloody nose is good, but there was no foul play. WSU front court so much better than KU's. The D disappeared when the O was not working, and out guys let them get comfortable and confident.

Once that happened (at the end of the first half?), the game was over.

I thought the only chance for the comeback was when Frank drove the lane and Wessel jumped out in front of him (clearly a blocking foul) and the ref called a charge and took away the 'and one' which had us right back in the hunt. That play was a killer and we never recovered.

The hi-lo clogging the lane makes dribble drive impossible, so when we started to make a play (Frank, Devonte, Kelly...) the lane was clogged. Spacing is the issue with KU's O and when they cannot score, their D effort and intensity breaks down against superior opponents.

Truth be told, this team, this year actually over-performed and if we had a series with WSU this year with these two teams, we would lose as well.

RCJH and on to 2015-16. We will be better next year for sure. Guard play is the absolute key in the dance and ours will improve over the next year and the year after. Future is bright. Don't call out the guys for lack of effort or heart or desire to win. WSU just beat us with a better team of players than ours.

See my post Tourney Reality for a more likely explanation.

Maybe they should have shot more threes?

RCJH Tourney Time!!!

Here are the most important things to consider when you go dancing:

Match Ups - who are we playing and how do they play? Advantage KU, We have played all styles and types of teams. We are well prepared to play any match up at any pace, any size and any offensive/defensive schemes.

Injuries/Out of Action - who can play and how healthy are they? Disadvantage KU. Cliff not playing is a huge let down (not as big as Jo-Jo last year but still our best rebounder by far). Perry is not 100% and our other guys are not at their physical best. I hope Coach does not practice them too hard as other teams are now getting key pieces back...and getting healthy. We need fresh legs!

Luck - how does the ball bounce possession by possession and game to game? KU Neutral. Sometimes luck is huge (bank shot three goes in, ball barely touches someone just as it is going out of bounds, someone gets two fouls in the first 30 seconds...). KU will have to get some lady luck to make it past the first and especially the second weekend.

Skill - who can elevate their game to make a play? KU Neutral. Could be a shot, a defensive stop, take a charge, a rebound, an assist, a save...we all know of the singular individual who outperforms at just the right moment. And then that one player who can take over a game for us and/or for our opponent. KU has less high skill than last year (Wigs and Jo-Jo) but might have more Alpha Dogs this year (watch us drive the ball and make FTs).

Toughness - who can out "bad ball" us? KU advantage. We do have grit and determination. We will not beat ourselves and I think the boys will play like men and make a run...until they hit the UK wall.

My prediction: an elite eight trip and a strong UK challenge, falling a couple of possessions short (like 2012 game). Rock Chalk!

Is this another Snacks issue and is he gone at the end of the season?

Why was Kelly riding the pine most of the second half?

NCAA tourney:

Match ups (luck of the draw)

Injuries (who can play and who cannot)

Luck (how does the ball bounce)

Voila tout!

@ralster : Two issues to discuss:

Can a team be tough on defense and able to grind it out and win and still be a predominately jump shooting, three ball jacking team on offense? Or do they have to drive the ball and mix it up in the paint on both ends to have this personality? Does toughness mean you cannot open up too much the offense b/c then you "settle" and become content with shooting outside shots?

Is KU's offensive scheme outdated and lacking in ability to allow great players to dribble-drive, exploit individual match ups, take advantage of great shooters, spread the floor, etc. Or are we stuck in a hi-lo design which is great for 3-4 year talented post players and guards who "feed the post" as a first option? Do we still not shoot enough threes or run plays for our best shooters?

Not for now, not for this year (too late in the season), but going forward, I believe Coach Self could use a new fresh offensive mind to up our game on that side of the ball.

@Shanghai_RCJH you, sir, are a player!

@HawksWin I politely disagree, UK is by far the clear favorite.

One should never beat a single team against the field in the NCAA but I do not recall ever seeing one team at even money against the entire field.

UK is getter better on offense (already by far the best D in college bb) with each game. They probably have the top two teams in the nation! or at least two of the top five. So they are injury proof and do not depend on any one or two players to play well...and the Squid can coach. I really do not like them or their coach but what an assembly of superior talent.

I think one would have to go back to the Wooden years for an equivalent. Maybe UF for the two years in a row they won it all?

I think the shoe stack conspiracy requires more drill down after the season, requiring another round of Jaybate.

RCJH!

Good offense and hot three point shooting will ALWAYS beat great defense and standard offense on any given night. And the Dance is single elimination tourney (unlike the NBA playoffs). KU would have a great advantage in a 2 out of 3 format.

But great defense and high percentage standard offense will ALWAYS beat great scoring offenses over the course of a season, multiple games. It is much easier to have consistent D than consistent O, especially from three point range.

I think we have arrived at the following conclusions:

1) It is harder to have tough consistent aggressive play when a team is primarily a jump shooting, three bombing team. Running disciplined offense and driving the ball to the hoop and concentrating on defense and rebounding makes the toughness factor more real game to game and creates a better and more consistent product on the court.

2) Self is a tremendous overall coach and an outstanding defensive mind but is not a great creative offensive wizard. His "stuff" (offensive sets) has grown stale and lacks modernity. KU offensive is sophisticated and requires great post passers and knowledge of where to go on the court, and is especially hard to learn for OAD and TAD players.

So, we will need to upgrade and modernize and run more plays to get more open threes on offense with this group and future recruits as well. But even if he wanted to, Coach cannot make these big changes at this time, this year - just too many variables and moving parts. All the comments are valid, but not for this year, at tourney time of the year.

But we all agree he could tweak a few things a get a few more looks from beyond the arch, but there are other priorities and things to emphasize short term.

Very good debate on this site concerning our team and coach. Now is the time to win in the ways we best know how. RCJH!

Kentucky 1/1

Duke 17/2

Wisconsin 9/1

Arizona and Virginia 12/1.

Gonzaga 14/1

Villanova 16/1

Kansas Jayhawks 20/1

Utah 28/1

Iowa State, North Carolina, and Notre Dame all at 33/1

Where would you put your $ ?

Season Averages for FoY consideration:

Turner vs Oubre

MIN - 22.9 ... 20.4

FG% - .459 ... .451

3P% - .276 ... .373

FT% - .838 ... .683

REB - 6.6 ... 5.1

AST - 0.6 ... 0.8

BLK - 2.8 ... 0.4

STL - 0.3 ... 1.1

PF - 2.4 ... 1.8

TO - 1.4 ... 1.0

PTS - 10.8 ... 9.0

The impressive stats for Turner are rebounds (# 8 in conf, Ellis # 5)), blocks (#1 in conf by quite a margin) and FT % (# 8 in conf ahead of all KU players). Kelly has also had a great year and I predict both will be lottery picks this year.

@ParisHawk : we do not "disappoint in March" unless you say (like some write on this site) anything other than a National Title is always a disappointment. This is not the case in a tourney like The Dance. Lots of random factors come into play (match ups, injuries, luck...). The real issue is do we play to our level and give ourselves a chance to overachieve? We do this more so under Coach Self than under Coach Williams, and certainly as well as any other program in the nation, year in and year out.

We have actually preformed at level in the tourney, in my opinion, over the years of the Self era (good but not great) : some years over performing (2012) and some years under performing (2005 and 06), just like all other teams and all other coaches.

KU has done better than most teams, but we all want our teams to do better every year! Sorry to disappoint, but this year's team is certainly not one of the elite teams in the country (top 2-8), but rather a second tier elite team (5-15).

People outside of competitive sports often make no distinction between 'could have won' and 'should have won', and become emotional about what the team "should have done". Let's remember how hard and exceptional it is to win six straight games against elite competition. 'Should have' this year is only UK. For all the other top four or five teams 'should have' is realistically to make the Final Four.

If KU does not make it through the first weekend (two tourney wins), we will be disappointed (underachievement) every single year. Remember 2013 when UK did not even make the NCAA tourney? (It was not that long ago...).

If our team makes it through the second weekend (regional winner and into the Final Four) we should be delighted (overachievement), regardless of the ensuing results. For this team, round of 16 is at level and round of 8 (regional finals) is a little above level, depending on all the other factors mentioned previously (match ups, injuries, luck, etc.).

Truth be told, shooting more threes, playing bad ball, and all the other fun comments made by board rats and fans have less relevance in the NCAA tourney than being blessed with favorable match ups, staying healthy and having some good luck at crunch time. Making free throws is very important, and we are money at the line. But sometimes the ball bounces in strange ways and luck plays a role in a single game elimination. The very best players can create their opportunities, and a single great player can make a difference. But most of the time, either team can win and there is more 'could have' than 'should have' in the Dance.

Here is the Kansas Season By Season NCAA Tourney Results under Coach Self:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history/_/team1/6292 ↗

Naismith Men’s College Coach of the Year Semifinalists (my vote goes to Bennett - list was established on Friday, before Sat's games...glad to see Turg made the cut)

Tony Bennett, Virginia (ACC 28-1)

Mike Brey, Notre Dame (ACC 25-5)

John Calipari, Kentucky (SEC 30-0)

Scott Drew, Baylor (Big 12 28-2)

Mark Few, Gonzaga (WCC 29-2)

Chris Holtmann, Butler (Big East 21-9)

Ben Jacobson, Northern Iowa (Missouri Valley Conference 27-3)

Larry Krystkowiak, Utah (Pac 12 22-6)

Archie Miller, Dayton (Atlantic 10 23-6)

Steve Prohm, Murray State (Ohio Valley Conference 26-4)

Bo Ryan, Wisconsin (Big 10 26-3)

Bill Self, Kansas (Big 12 24-6)

Wayne Tinkle, Oregon State (Pac-12 17-13)

Mark Turgeon, Maryland (Big Ten 25-5)

Jay Wright, Villanova (Big East 28-2)

@Lulufulu : agreed, ISU did it on offense by hitting shots (like Baylor), but KU made the comeback against WVU on D (no three point makes) which is even harder and more amazing...

Glad to see Hugs get CoY, he deserves it, but Coach Self also deserves it.

Mason = mvp of the KU team this year, no doubt, but Ellis is first team all conference, no doubt.

The last 4-5 games Perry has really stepped it up and if he had had the same statistical performance in the last two games (WVU and OU), and we had won them, he would have been awarded Big 12 PoY.

Voted on by Big 12 coaches who are supremely well positioned to judge the value of the selections...

Let's have some more humor, 'best of' and 'worst of' ... this is the chance to show your fun side!

Here is the link to the official results:

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209934691 ↗

A great conference this year (#1 in RPI), very fun and highly competitive top to bottom. Great year and a lot of excitement! Here are my nominations for individual awards.

All conference first team:

Hield (PoY)
Niang (best player with least talent)
Staten (makes his team a competitor)
Gathers (my person al choice for PoY)
Ellis (personally responsible for another KU title)

Mason (2nd team) and Oubre (3rd team) ; Turner (Freshman of Year)

Coach of Year: Huggins and Self (both teams overachieved)

Here are some quick thoughts on the teams:

KU - team of the year, overachievers, only undefeated at home, best fans, most pride and tradition - what a run!!!

ISU - best offensive team and scheme, best offensive balance (6 players averaged double figures!), play fast and jack the three

OU - best all round talent and balance across all categories, gotta love coach Kruger, sweet 16 team, I love their style

BU - best raw talent in terms of length and athleticism, Drew is a great recruiter and getting better at coaching

WVU - best defense, best pressure, most scrappy, gotta love Hugs and his style, would not want to play them in March

OSU - worst team for KU to play, bad mojo for us, they always overachieve and we underachieve against OSU

UT - most disappointing (again) and a program which deserves to do better in all sports, great talent, poor results

KSU - most 'punk' team, coach and basketball program (opposite in football), would be delighted to beat them again next week!

TCU - most improved and wonderfully competitive, tough and good rebounders, most improved over the year

TT - best doormat, but best upset 'Ws' (beat OU this year) with wins over much better teams each year (re: Topeka YMCA game)

What say the board rats? Nominations for best 'cry baby', 'best shooter', stupidest quote ...' etc.

Have some fun with it! RCJH

KU's sting of Big 12 titles is remarkable and it matters a lot to our fans and to our players and to our coaches. Focus on the immediate goal of winning each individual game, leading to another title, #11 in a row, a phenomenal accomplishment in any sports at any level of play. To do it in today's game at Division I level is truly special.

It matters most not to denigrate or belittle this remarkable achievement, embrace it and be proud you are a fan of KU basketball!

The Dance matters most, but it is not everything that matters. As Coach has said, you can only have a good season (but not great) if you do not perform well in the Dance. We all want to have a deep run every year, in March. But to read how some fans are currently stressing out about our potential seed or our probable loss the first weekend is a negative vibe which says more about the individual psychology of the fan than our current group of players. Our post-season record is very good (not great) and our seeding will take care of itself. Is there another program in the nation who has done better over the past 11 years?

To believe that the only thing that matters is the Dance and winning a national title is just not true. That is the media take and the whole bracketology hype which distracts from the game at hand, and from the moment before us, and the joy and passion we get from watching each game and each group of players grow and (hopefully) come together as a high performing team.

The moment at hand is the next home game against a good UT team (talk about disappointment!) and then the revenge game against a WV team every more offensively challenged than ours. They have overachieved but we need our revenge - and to demonstrate that we can be better ball handlers and break their press for easy baskets. This will be a very good test of our resolve and abilities to dribble and pass like a Big 12 Champion. Then OU for all the marbles...this is fun, not depressing! RCJH!

When we lose, especially on the road in the Big 12, it is not b/c we blew it or we did not try hard enough or our Coach is not smart enough or our players do not have heart. Be loyal and continue to challenge our team and coach, but in a positive way. Everyone is trying very hard to win, including the other team and coach.

We have good players and a good Coach and a great program. Every team we play on the road storms the court when they beat us. The energy from the home crowd to beat KU is really something, and hard to overcome game after game. KSU played their best game of the year, and we were below average. Shit happens over the course of a season. Sometimes when we lose we just get beat.

I personally think we overachieved early on and were able to close a few games with our great guard play and lack of strong post play which made us think that this group of players were better than they truly are. We can play at a high level, but not consistently and our youth has shown our vulnerability on the road in close games recently. We are every team's Super Bowl in our conference. Storming the court when they beat us at home during the regular season just shows how great our program truly is.

We will do better on neutral courts with the strong KU fan following in the post season. For now, on to another Big 12 title! RCJH!!!

Yes, player development is a good thing and Cliff should stay another year.

But considering this year, and this team, the most glaring weakness is post play and post rebounding especially on the defensive end.

We are playing very good first shot D now (Coach has worked his magic again as the team is peaking on D at year end), but the way other teams can get offensive rebounds in bundles and get second and third shots and wear down our D has the KU nation concerned.

The best (only?) answer over the next four weeks is Cliff grabbing a boatload of boards and limiting second and third attempts against other very good teams. Perry is doing much better on the boards, Jamari is a weak rebounder and Landon is limited. Hunter is MIA and it seems that only Cliff is capable of stepping up down low and snatching 8-12 / game ... if he gets the minutes.

Think about it - 22 offensive rebounds in a game against a KU team, Scary!

Guard play is very good this year and is betting better on both ends of the court. Great game by Frank and Devonte and Brannen.

Nice sting of posts, but horrible title. The season is not dead and we are playing well. TCU is a good team and we are in a great conference. Too much drama in the speculation about the Dance. We are in first place and a top ten team nationally.

However, the lack of playing time accorded to The Big Red Dog is - we all agree - baffling. Yesterday, fouls played a part, but in general we agree that Cliff looks and acts confused about where to go and how to play, no instinctive competitive drive, just hesitation. This is not lack of effort or laziness. Watch the way he sprints up and down the court. This is a confused player and the game has not yet slowed down for him. Cliff has good body language on the court and on the bench.

So why is he playing so few minutes?

This is a little on the coaching staff and a little on the player, and a lot on the Freshman reality of being overwhelmed and banged up. His body is sore, like most players, but especially that first year it has to be a huge physical challenge for the big guy. Last year we had an exceptionally smart player in the post in Jo-Jo which makes the contrast even more glaring, but he was hurt too and had to sit.

Remember the Morris twins their first season, how T-Rob played year one, all the KU late bloomers at the 5 over the past ten years...

But there can be no doubt that Cliff is by far our best talent in the low post at the 5 this year, and far and away our best defensive rebounder which is our greatest need at the moment (we were bolded textagain outrebounded by an inferior opponent).

Why does Coach not play Cliff in spurts with little advice tips (real time coaching and learning lessons whispered in his ear) in between 5 min stretches? Why play him and when he does not do well, sit him for long periods of time (sometimes an entire half!).

The premise is that he will learn more on the court playing in games than on the bench watching the action, and he is still not being given enough court time to work through his mistakes and learn by doing rather than watching (or worse being "punished").

This is all about Coach Self not having confidence in Cliff's ability to play D and get into the right position on the court. But the key to playing at our highest level, in my opinion, is one word: (more) rebounds. We gotta have the Big Red Dog crash the boards and limit second and third chances to be at our best. RCJH KU!!!

Good post - KU D is actually not that bad considering that we basically exchanged Wigs for Kelly and Cliff for Jo-Jo. Kelly has done fine but Cliff is a defensive on the ball liability on D, big time. But he is still our best rim protector, a better than average shot blocker, and a very good defensive re bounder.

Overall our front court are average defenders and rebounders, at best.

Our back court is very good as a unit but not great individually. And you are right, no stopper.

I am actually a believer in the KU D on this team and think it has won use a boatload of games this year. Maybe we can peak defensively over the next four weeks.

Remember guys, a D breakdown can also be due in large part to an outstanding offensive play and Staten was by far the best player on the court last night. The best player made the best play and is obviously ready for the pros with that two step spin move, with the left hand. It was simply a great play by a great player and happened very fast.

Believe in the D! Now shoot more threes and rebound the ball and we are in good shape.

PS Jamari and Perry almost made the play of the year. What a pass! What a catch! And why did Perry just barely miss it? Staten came all the way back and disrupted ever so slightly his rhythm and timing. Great play TWICE in eight seconds. Gotta tip the cap...

But how does this justify losing a game in Morgantown that might have iced the eleventh title by not taking more treys, and by not playing your OAD center more than 6 minutes?

That, indeed, is the question, in this game and with this group of player, this year. And we still do not have an adequate answer. It's not that tough:

1. Run plays specifically to get open threes and let them fly.
2. Play Cliff 20-25 min every game.

If we shoot 18-22 threes instead of 11 and Cliff plays 20-25 min instead of 6 (and none the second half when we just could not get a defensive rebound), I truly believe we increase our chances to win last night's game and EVERY game going forward.

One word response: Rebounds.

KU cannot win games against top opponents without more three point attempts. 11 TPA will not get the job done. Simple as that. As some of you have pointed out: we have to run plays and have an offensive scheme to get three point looks (like the first ten minutes of the second half).

Conclusion: run plays to get Seldon and Green open three point set shots. They are our two hottest shooters and best percentage beyond the arc but cannot create shots on their own, or in the standard hi-lo deliberate offensive outdated design.

KU cannot win games against top opponents giving up 22 offensive rebounds. We simply have to have the personnel in the game and the court position to limit second and third chances.

Conclusion: Cliff has to play more minutes, period! Our guards and wings have to crash the boards. "Jamari and Landen were without question our best options." Maybe (not sure) for ball handling on their pressure, certainly not for rebounding.

It was a great game and our guys played their hearts out and almost got a W.

I cannot help but challenge Coach on his rotations, offensive schemes and playing time decisions. The bench time of The Big Red Dog is the most baffling (just like ISU earlier in the year). At the very least we would have picked up a few more rebounds...

Freethe3 !bolded text

That is funny and exciting and amazing...RCJH! KU fans and sports writers are the best! Way to go Jesse! HEM is on a role...we have found a flaw in an otherwise perfect machine. Good stats.

Reminds me of Alabama this past year with its tremendous program of success based on Sabin's defensive prowess, using a passing offense to outscore opponents in the SEC. Role Tide fan were beside themselves.

That team last year would have never been able to compete at the highest level in the traditional Coach Sabin way. They just were not up to standards to physically dominate up front as they had for the past several years. They need to pass to run and find a new big play offense.

He brought in Kiffin (whom he does not even like) who completely transformed his stodgy "run the ball up the middle three times for a first down" and they became an offensive powerhouse, winning games 50-45.

An amazing transformation which got them to the final four.

KU has moved from 18 threes/game on average to 20...imagine if we were gunning 25/game. #Freethe3 !

If I were British, I would call you cheeky!

We could use an offensively minded assistant coach at KU, I am thinking of the great coaches and leaders and business executives who hire guys to complement their skills.

The point was, my cheeky bloke, that Coach Self is not a great offensive mind...