Very happy to see some optimism from fellow fans!! Did you guys read all the comments about this on KUsports? I've never read so many negative posts. Jo Jo is a huge part of this team but injuries happen and other guys need to step up and make it happen.
At the end of the day we still have Bill Self and that is an advantage few other teams possess in March.
@Crimsonorblue22 Thanks for posting the link. Pretty shocked Wiggins is not on the All Big 12 Defensive Team.
@ralster I can't imagine we are in the #1 seed conversation at this point. We have lost 2 of our last 3 and even if we win the Big 12 Tournament I think our 8 losses will be too many. Also I saw that Nova is now a projected #1 and if it comes down to that obviously they beat us head to head.
I'd love to win the Big 12 or get to the Finals and lock up a 2 seed...hopefully in the Midwest with WSU as the #1. That would be the best thing for KU in my opinion at this point of the season.
@ralster I am totally with you that I would strongly prefer being a 2 seed. I suppose that is obvious but the 2 seed really should have a very easy first round game and a #7/10 in the next round. I have no stats to back this up but I feel like 2 seeds simply get to the Sweet 16 more than 3's.
We will likely see OSU in the Big 12 and that should be enough to get our guys really fired up. Worst case scenario we lose...do we get a 3 seed?
@JayHawkFanToo I recalled 1st team as being...
Beasley, Durant, Blake Griffin and 2 other non-Jayhawks.
I must be wrong but Fran Fraschilla tweeted the same thing earlier today. Perhaps we are both wrong? Is Fran ever wrong?
I certainly did not mention them as being not decorated. I just thought they all made 2nd Team...and my stats (wrong or right) were all Big 12 related.
I see great arguments for multiple guys in the Big 12. Wiggs, Kane, Ejim, Foster, etc. At the end of the day it is a personal achievement and I don't really get caught up in it. In 2008 when we won the National Title we did not have anyone on First Team All Big 12 as I recall. I'd rather have the balanced play we currently have and have guys "in the discussion" for player of the year. Wiggs had a great year as did Embiid for KU and they can impact games as much as anyone whether or not stats are there to back it up.
Can't wait for the post-season. Let's beat WVU and move on to what this team is capable of doing...cutting down nets.
@globaljaybird I would love nothing more than to win it all this year and then have Embiid come back anyway. One can dream!!!
On a more serious note, has the consensus #1 pick in the OAD era ever decided to play college ball instead of going to the NBA?
The comments that Marcus Smart made about Self saying they would be "cutting down nets" etc should be unbelievable but they are not. They are just another example of his lack of maturity.
I honestly can't believe I am even typing this but after all of Smart's flopping, chair kicking, back flipping, finger licking and flat out lying I seriously wish the worst for Smart and OSU for the rest of their season. Once the brackets are out I ALWAYS cheer for the Big 12 teams. I will have to make an exception this year as everything that I have seen from Smart and his coach has been pathetic. IF they make the tournament (with their conference record they shouldn't) I truly hope they have a similar run they had last year...one and done. College ball is better off without Smart and Travis Ford being on the floor.
@wissoxfan83 I agree that even though we have 10 straight Big 12 titles that the NCAA tourney streak is even more incredible. Duke, UNC, Cuse, Zona and all of the other big boys have had years off and KU just keeps putting up great seasons. I know we would all love to have a few more Final 4 appearances / National Titles but you have to love that every year we have a chance as we are in the tournament.
It is unbelievable that Selection Sunday is only a bit over 2 weeks away. It is one of the best days of my life every single year.
Win or lose (I think we win by 10) I hope that Jo Jo does not play much. It is hard for me to believe that he is healed up after such a short break. I'd like to see him play if needed and be closer to 100% for the UT game and for the rest of the season to come.
@Kapone2323 I agree that Wiggins was a great get for us and that he will help us compete for a title this year and will help with future recruiting once he becomes a stud in the NBA.
Wiggins could finish better and he could pass more, no question. The thing he does best is plays tough D. If the rest of our team played D like Wiggs we would probably be looking at 1 or 2 losses instead of 6. Our D will be what makes the difference in March.
@dylans At the beginning of this year I know most of us thought that Embiid would be a project and not nearly as good as he has been so far this year. We have been really lucky that he has developed so quickly and I am thrilled to hear that he is going to sit out for a bit. I hope he stays out multiple games honestly. We need him to be at full strength for the 1st round in March.
I love Bill Self. We are so incredibly spoiled to have him. One of my only beefs with him has been that I think he has made kids play through injuries before. EJ / Tyshawn are two examples that come to mind. I know he is a hard ass but I feel he may have gone over the line a couple of times making these guys get out on the floor. Very pleased that he is taking Embiid off the court for a bit. If he is back to who he was pre TCU injury I think we are a Final 4 team.
@Blown What does everyone think about Jo Jo's knee? Is this really something that can be rested? Is he just banged up or is this basically an injury where he will play at 70% for the rest of the year? I unfortunately think he is truly hurt and won't be the same this season. Certainly not trying to be pessimistic. Just a realist.
@HighEliteMajor Love these points. When you bring in the #2 recruiting class in the country and the #1 overall recruit and you have 3 McD's All Americans in the starting lineup you have to have high expectations. I for one am tired of us hanging our hat on our Big 12 title streak. It is a fantastic streak and we should be really proud of it but I would much rather go to Final 4's and cut down nets. We have the talent. We just need the will to win and I hope that we can get that between now and mid March.
@DinarHawk I fully agree that we can make a run and will probably get a 2-3 seed. Maybe even a 4 depending on how many more games we lose and who we lose to.
The thing that I love about the tournament is exactly your point. Last year an 8 seed and two 4 seeds make the Final Four. Those teams just got hot at the right time. Michigan and Syracuse last year were both up and down but played their best ball in the tournament and like us had a ton of talent. Hopefully that will be the case with us this year and hopefully we will be healthy by then...especially Jo Jo.
After last night I assume we are out of the discussion for a 1 seed unless we win out and get a ton of help such as WSU losing, Zona, Cuse, Florida all losing, etc. My gut says we get a 3 seed. I know there is a ton of season left but my assumption is we lose another game or 2 and that a 3 will be fitting.
@JayHawkFanToo Great analysis. It would obviously be great if we could run the table but I tend to doubt it. The OSU game in Stillwater seems like a loss and I think we will probably drop another game we don't expect.
That said, I actually like the idea of getting a 2 or even a 3 seed in some ways. Last year in the first round it seemed like we played with SO much pressure on us. That pressure carried over into the first half of the North Carolina game as well. As a #2 we could potentially fly a bit more under the radar (sort of) and maybe even play with a chip on our shoulder. Either way as we have found out in the past March is all about matchups and the seeding is only part of the problem.
@globaljaybird I was just looking at the rest of our schedule and on paper it looks to be pretty good for us. Most of our toughest games should be played at home. That said, what game is not tough? Every team in the Big 12 plays up when they play KU.
Realistically, how many games can we lose from here on and get a #1 seed? As HEM has pointed out numerous times getting a #1 seed results in the greatest chance of winning the title. Obviously 8 seeds have been in the Final 4 often lately but I am just curious what everyone thinks about our chances of getting a #1. The game at OSU sticks out as a probable loss to me but not really any other games. Can we lose 2 more regular season games and lose 1 game in the Big 12 tourney and still have a chance at a #1 seed?
@JayHawkFanToo You are right. Good points.
@drgnslayr I totally agree. Good win and partially because we won it big. That is something we need to have happen more often.
The starters are really taking turns having big games. Ellis and Tharpe showed up last night and the 3 Freshman looked bad and we still win big on the road. It is exciting to think how good we could be if 4 of the 5 starters have quality games at the same time.
@tis4tim I honestly think Embiid is pretty hurt. He just does not look like the explosive freak athlete he was before the collision during the TCU game. Obviously I hope that I am wrong but he just looks like he is laboring a bit and struggling to plant and not getting much on his shot that looked really pure just a couple of games ago. Also, he was really late to his spot last night multiple times on D which lead to his foul trouble. I would love to see a blowout or 2 down the stretch where we barely need to use him so he is healthy or close to it by the time we have our first round game. As we all know he is pretty scary when he is 100%.
I am scared about our weaknesses as I always am. We are a pretty soft team and a streaky shooting team but we play with heart and have a ton of talent. The way the season is shaping up is great, though as far as seeding for the NCAA is concerned. I would love to get a 2 or a 3 seed and play with a chip on our shoulder but still get a relatively easy first round...if those exist.
These bruiser teams seem to be just too much for us this year. UT, SDSU, Nova, etc. These teams are not afraid to play tough D in the paint and on the perimeter and we don't seem to have an answer. I am still very high on our potential for March but games like this do worry me a bit as if we run up against a big / strong team in the tourney this could be a sign of things to come. I don't remember a KU team with this much talent but I also don't remember a KU team in recent memory being this soft.
Zona - battle tested team. Great athletes all over the floor. Veterans.
MSU - this is the team to beat in my opinion. They will be healthy by the time March is upon us. They have veterans and they have guys who can score and they have Izzo. Not one group of seniors has ever played for him and not gone to a Final Four.
Okie St - I hate this pick but I do feel they have all the pieces to make a run. No need to say what they are as we know.
KU - We may have the most pure talent in the country.
Cuse - Their zone is as tough as ever and Ennis and Fair are dynamic.
Kentucky - I don't think Cal can coach but I think that Julius is one of the toughest guys to guard in basketball and that they have too many guys who can score.
Florida - we all saw first hand what they can do. Veterans (this is a trend in my picks) who know how to win. They seem to go to the Elite 8 every year!
Duke - I hate making this pick as well. Jabari and Hood are a great tandem and you can't count out a Coach K team.
@drgnslayr No matter what Jay Bilas says about Embiid looking into "what other great big men say to do" I still can't imagine he will stay...or Wiggins for that matter.
I may be speaking out of turn here as I have never seen the Embiid or Wiggins family bank statements but I always think it is funny when people say that they don't need the money and that they are comfortable due to their families. They may not be in the dire situation that B Mac was in but are they really in a spot where a guaranteed signing bonus of millions of dollars does not look attractive and nearly impossible to pass up? With these two kids we are not talking about possible lottery picks...we are talking about the current #1 and #2 player on Chad Ford's draft picks.
@HighEliteMajor I suppose what I mean by "I don't think it is a big deal if we lose" is exactly your point about the games I think we can afford to lose...at ISU, at Baylor and at OSU. Those to me are very acceptable losses to the best teams in our league not called KU while on the road.
I fully agree with you about not being concerned about the Big 12 regular season title. I really don't care about winning another Big 12 title. Like you HEM, I want to win it all. I would be happy having only won 5 of the last 10 Big 12 seasons if we had another National Title during that same period. I would trade that any day of the week. We have the pieces this year as we have had so many times.
@RockChalkinTexas OK. 2-2, then...if we win.
@HighEliteMajor I loved the way we reacted to the double team against KSU. I don't see any reason we don't continue that this evening. ISU is certainly not an elite team defensively and they are pretty small so I assume they will be forced to double. This should lead to a number of open shots and hopefully that translate into made shots. If we shoot as well as we have the last 2 games I think we win. If we don't look go from outside I agree with you guys that it could be a very long night.
To me if KU loses this game it is not a big deal as we are due to lose to this ISU team that should have beaten us twice last year. If we win it is a pretty big win and we move to 3-0 while ISU goes to 1-2.
@Blown The way Wiggins stands does look a little odd, I agree. It is funny though that we are judging his posture. The guy can run like a deer, can hit his head on the rim and probably has the quickest first step in college. He could probably do hand stands during timeouts if he felt like it.
It is hard to hate Greene based on his lack of play. He looks to me like he has the tools to be a great player in future seasons at KU. He probably does have a bad attitude but that is not abnormal for an 18 year old kid. He will mature.
Does anyone think that between Greene / AW3 / CF we will ever see a consistent piece of our puzzle? We have discussed this ad nauseam but I am starting to think Self may never pick just one to get big minutes. We may be looking at this one game this guy one game that guy philosophy for the entire season based on matchups.
Love the hustle plays. Love the diving on loose balls. Love Selden having a breakout game. Love that we can put up 90 points with Wiggins and Embiid being essentially non-factors. Love that CF gave us nice minutes.
Hate the fact that we continue to play horrific defense. In all my years of watching KU basketball I have never seen so many open shots for the other team. I know that Clark is a great player and that he put up 32 on MSU earlier this year but a lot of his shots were essentially open looks. We played pretty solid defense against SDSU so I know we are capable of elevating our level of D but for the most part this year I have really struggled to not throw my beer through the TV every game due to our defense.
Nice win on the road, though. Rock Chalk.
@Blown Gotcha. I appreciate the answer. I truly hope that Greene can figure out how to stay. He looks like he will turn into the real deal at some point. It would be best if he is wearing a KU uniform when he realizes his potential.
I know we are supposedly still ranked #1 in strength of schedule and it only gets worse from here. Our next 5 game stretch is brutal. What do you all think? Is this good timing that we have to play 3 top 10 teams in the next 5 games so we know we need to get pumped up for every possession or is it the worst thing possible for a young team lacking confidence?
@Blown What did Greene say?
I agree with the posts that we can't shoot and that we can't rebound and that we get out hustled but I don't really agree that CS was out coached. We played great D against a tough veteran team and had our chances down the stretch to win the game. We missed a ton of open shots...again. It is an unfortunate trend and now the entire Big 12 has the blue print for how to make it difficult on our offense. I hope we can get it together and not have another 3 game losing streak like we did last year as this team may not be mature enough to recover.
I hate to say it but I agree on AW3 being a probable transfer. It honestly seems like it is between the ears when he gets in a game. He presses. According to stories we all read he is a lights out shooter in practice, is a gym rat and put on like 20 pounds of muscle in the off season so he is certainly preparing for the big time the right way and has the talent. We just have not seen it consistently in games.
It is especially tough to think he will stay if Selden stays for next year. That will leave him pretty far down the order if things stay how they are. I have watched quite a few Oubre highlights and he looks pretty incredible. That said, I thought the same thing about Greene, White, CF, etc. I know he is a top 10 guy and not a top 50 guy so he should be closer to "as advertised" but I think it would do us all some good to taper our expectations for any and all recruits. When we signed Wiggins I assumed he would be putting up 25 a game and as we have all seen that has not been the case.
I don't think we land Turner. I'm not trying to be a downer but I think Alexander is a beast and that Turner will want to be the star of the show and will get a better chance to do it elsewhere.
Embiid is gone. He is being mentioned as a potential #1 pick and the lowest board I have seen this week had him at #4. No reason for him to stay.
I think Ellis will stay and that he will start along with Alexander with Traylor the first off the bench and Mickelson and Lucas sort of as interchangeable parts as the next guy in.
Great posts. I agree with HEM on a number of his reasons why we will win it and I agree with a number of other posts including Jaybate about how we don't play defense and that is a huge issue. My gut reaction is that this has to be "the year" we have all been waiting for since 2008. I doubt we will ever have this much talent on one team again...ever. Wiggins has been hyped as the 2nd coming of Lebron and now he may not even be the best future NBA star on our roster. Think about that. Wiggins and Embiid are being discussed as possible #1 and #2 picks in the draft. That formula worked out pretty well for Kentucky 2 years ago. Wiggins and Embiid are amazing enough, not to mention Selden, Ellis and a couple other guys who will probably be in the NBA in the near future.
Other than are high level talent the other reason that I feel this is our year to cut down the nets is that we are incredibly deep. We may not have the 3 point shooting we have had in 2010...or the incredible defense we had in 2008...or the Senior leadership we had last year...but we have never been this deep. We have great guys coming off of the bench. My main hope is that the trio of Greene/AW3/CF contributes a bit more. We have all beat that to death so I won't get into it but I do feel that those guys add greatly to our depth. Deep teams tend to make deep runs in March and I am confident we will be one of those teams this year.
The last couple of games have been fantastic for Embiid and I think that will continue tonight. I have posted this before, but what I am still really hoping to see is a breakout performance from Wiggins. He has obviously been solid but I don't think I am alone in wanting to see a 10-15 from the field game where he puts up 30 and has a break away dunk or two.
Great points. Regarding Greene, I am 100 % sold that he will be a great Jayhawk when all is said and done and that he will not transfer. But are we really comparing him to B Rush? Rush struggled to take over games when he could have but let's be honest...Rush was the leading scorer his Freshman year, was a lock down defender and was probably the best player on our national title team and was a 1st round NBA pick. That is a lot to live up to as far as comparisons for Greene.
It is truly incredible how fast Embiid's stock has risen. We are talking about a kid who started playing the game only a few years ago, is unranked as a Junior, then all the way up to a top 10 recruit by the end of his Senior year and now is potentially the #1 pick in the NBA draft. I have read quite a few articles and comments about how Bill Self is not great with OAD's and how Wiggins has had an average year so far (which I agree with considering the hype) but Embiid is yet another example of what Bill and his coaching staff can do with talented big men. It took T Rob a few years, The Morris Twins a couple of years , Withey an entire college career and now Embiid 1/2 a season to be considered NBA ready. I am really excited to see what Embiid can do moving into Big 12 play. His attention may even take some of the pressure off Wiggins.
I tend to think this will come down to the wire. Wayne is a big body and a great athlete but so far I certainly have not seen anything from him that will make him a lock as a lottery pick. If he has a fantastic Big 12 then things could change but as of today I would assume he is coming back as he would not be a "for sure" in the lottery. Embiid is gone. We can stop dreaming about that right now.
HEM - great points as usual. All valid concerns and interests going into this game. My #1 thing I am watching for is if Wiggins has the ability to start and finish a game with a hot hand. 10 games into the season we are still yet to see what I know everyone expected from Wiggins. Please don't give me the "he is young" answer. Did you see Jabari Parker last night? I'm 100% sold that Wiggins is going to be incredible and will be the reason we can get to the Final 4. I love this kid and his potential...I am just ready to see his potential realized.
I think a mix of man to man and zone would be great. I highly doubt we will see a zone defense start to finish but it does work for Cuse. Most of their teams are long and athletic and appear to be well suited for the zone. We have been burned so much from 3 this year that I don't know what to think of playing zone but I agree with HEM and Newell that it could help with our foul problems and that we need Joel on the floor.
I just read the article on KUsports about Wiggins early struggles. There are a number of comments about how Self can't coach OAD players and that Cal and Coach K get more out of these superior talents. I can't disagree as Self does not have a great history with OAD players but we just need to be patient. Wiggins struggles in Atlantis were not issues caused by Self...he missed layups, travelled multiple times, was in the wrong place on the floor multiple times and was not solid from the line. These are not things you can blame on CS. These are simply early season jitters/flu. Wiggins is going to be huge this year
I fully agree that Embiid should be in the starting lineup. I am sure that the pressure of being a starter will wear on him for a few games but it is the best thing for us in the long run. Traylor and Black will simply get the other minutes and that is fine as they are similar players in a lot of ways.
For the 2/3 minutes behind Wiggins and Selden I am totally convinced that AW3 is going to get that slot. He is a year older, a year wiser and lets be honest a bigger and stronger guy at this point. If Greene can't wait his turn like AW3 has I will be disappointed but would also have to question his reasons for leaving. So many great players before him have had to wait their turn and it has worked out well for them...Releford, T Rob, Brady, etc. The list is obviously quite long.
I also agree that CF / Greene are the guys who should come in and get emergency minutes. My hypothesis is that they trade off on who is in that spot for the rest of the year and that there will not be a clear cut player who is benched for the season. They are both too good and I think Self will go with who has been better at practice that week or is in his better graces.
Fully agree with HEM. If Embiid bolts for the draft and we miss out on all of these bigs we are in trouble. I have always liked Traylor for his athleticism and his ability to block shots but he will probably never be an elite player.
My worthless opinion is that Embiid stays. I know that draft boards have him as high as the top 5 and that smart basketball minds like Pitino say things like "Wiggins and Embiid should go 1 and 2" but from the very very small amount we have seen he looks even more green than I expected. Another year of college ball could turn this kid into a beast and would probably help out his confidence playing a game he just learned a few years ago. My other thought is that we don't get any of the big recruits. Not sure why I think that but it may be good that I think that. I am almost always wrong. I literally bet money with a friend that we would land Randle and that we had no chance at Wiggins. Who knows. I guess we will find out in 3 days who goes where and we can analyze it to death for the coming year.
All that said, if we can win the title this year with big contributions from Embiid, Wiggins and Selden I really don't care if they all bolt. Winning titles is all I care about and unfortunately I feel we have not won nearly enough with the incredible teams with have had under both Roy and Bill. I think most of you out there agree.
I will admit it. Duke is my least favorite team in any sport. I can't wait for this game tonight.
Anyone else in Chicago for the game?
We are going to see a different Kansas team tomorrow night than what we saw in the opener. These guys are going to be incredibly up for this game and they know all of the Duke players well. I would be shocked if it is not a close contest and a high scoring one at that with the new foul situation.
Another post earlier pointed out that we can't keep referring to our team as "young" and using that as an excuse. I fully agree with that. Freshman and sophomores have been dominating college basketball the last number of years...it just happens most of our studs in the Self era have been upper classmen. I think that Wiggins and Selden and the other Frosh are ready for the challenge and will step up tomorrow. My other bet is that we see a break out game from AWIII. He looks like a beast and is ready to show the country how much he has improved.
I missed the game as I have been out of the country and am pretty shocked to read about Wiggins not getting after it 100% the entire game. He has so much hype that I will probably need to get used to being a bit underwhelmed with him even when he has 10 points and multiple huge dunks.
I am actually excited to read that we are not red-shirting anyone this year (or so Self says). My reason is simple...this is the year. We have more talent this year than we have had potentially ever and like it or not at least 2-5 of these guys are gone next year. I know we are going to be really solid next year no matter who stays but I say we put all of our effort into this year and if a shooter like CF can bail us out of a game in March even after playing sparingly all year, then I am all for it. A lot of people on KU Sports have complained for years about how we don't win titles with great teams. This has the potential to be a great team even though it is young. We have the #2 class in the country including #1 recruit in the country and incredible athletes from last years squad to round out the lineup. I really do think this is our time. I for one can't wait to see these kids in Chicago next Tuesday. I will be there cheering as loud as I possibly can and will hopefully be able to rub it in some Duke fans faces on my way out of the United Center.
I laughed out loud when I saw this article. Obviously he is gone. What is apparently not obvious is if he will go #1. I read an article earlier this week on ESPN that said Julius will be going #1 over Wiggins. Who knows. We have an entire season to speculate. I suppose it will be fun to watch and if AW plays up to his potential I think we will all enjoy seeing him picked 1st overall next June.
Slayr, I have to say this is a large stretch. Your posts are typically 100% accurate but I can't even imagine a situation where a player of CF's talent would "walk on" or play D2 ball. He is one of the top players in the entire country coming out of high school. Top 30 or top 50 depending on what poll you choose to read. He may not be ready to make an impact right away and he may red shirt, but he is going to be a good if not great D1 player. His scouting report says "unlimited range". You do not hear that often and whatever shortcomings he has physically will be corrected by Bill Self and Hudy. Think of some of the other "shooters" just in the Big 12 who have made a large impact on their teams...Brady Heslip is a good example and CF has a far higher ceiling than he ever had.