Maybe a win tonight? Hmm

By 10

🙋‍♀️ I'm here for whatever!
LFG

RockChalk

House money

Bill mentioned Parker isn't at 100%, so basically 6 guys.

A rare chance to shine for some of these guys. No fear.

Texas LOST ha ha

Great Tornado warning here in Topeka - - two different ones - - wonderful

Dry as a bone in LFK. The two storms split us

It's snowing in Colorado

Hope the tornadoes stay away from KC

Djuan HAS TO SCORE for sure tonight, jut hope he doesn't ry TO MUCH and have a really really bad game. - like they are saying just let it fly - there are no expectations this weekend--- just nobody get hurt

@RockChalkinTexas they’re about to get pummeled with hail. The warning said 3”

Will KJ play the 5 then?

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Dry as a bone in LFK. The two storms split us

Tonganoxie Split working hard tonight!

Dammit , confirmed Tornado on the ground in Rossville- - TOO DAM CLOSE

I'm sort of expecting to enjoy this game... and I think we'll win.

@jayballer67 Looks like Topeka will dodge that line. Stay safe, man.

@DanR said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@jayballer67 Looks like Topeka will dodge that line. Stay safe, man.

Thanks -- Rossville just a little West - and a tad North. To early for these man

The lady in front of me in check out at grocery store saw my #Jayhawks tshirt and said she was for Houston and was sorry for what happened last week! I told her this was the first time in more than 20 years that I wasn't expecting much. I wished her good luck and hoped they win it all for the conference and she fist bumped me 👊

Already cackling at this lineup

starting cold again. Ghahhhh

I don't mind Wes Miller. Seems like a good dude. Not sure if he's a winner yet.

I see Dr. Randall

Yes KJ

Someone tell Nick to ball fake

Timberlake was hacked

These refs suck

@KirkIsMyHinrich Bob Knight rolled in his grave

MARKO

Wow

WTF?

Good D

+1

about time

Marko got fouled too. Refs are bastards

Foul

Wtf?!?

put jamari in, Timberlake is a brick

Clank

this game is trash

we have a chance though playing like this

Time out a bit too late

Timber gonna get hot!🤞

Adams didn't even try there defensively. He's tired

And that’s probably all she wrote

@DanR said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

put jamari in, Timberlake is a brick

and I’m drowning slowly.

gave up about 7 points waiting for the under 12 timeout to get Timberbrick out. Jamari sat at the scoring table doing more than Nick the brick.

We already look gassed, unfortunately KSU won so they are still alive for the big tournament. They probably go further than us if they get in so I definitely don’t want that

Our most talented players are freshman. Juan and KJ can't take over a game offensively. Timberlake isn't very good.

Well boys

Hopefully EJ stays aggressive

Johnny where you at ?

Why not Jank vs Nick

Weird almost like KJ is better as a 5

There you go KJ

That was a nice rebound by Marko btw

Cinci's big guy is NOT GOOD

Kj!

Can we pull Zachs redshirt?

@DanR Elmarko blocked him

@kjayhawks no

JAMARI

we have to shoot some threes. Playing with a hand tied behind our back is sure failure

Sorry, just can'tget mad tonight myself with the hand we were dealt

@DanR may as well just let it fly already missing our text book bunnies

we can't even possibly try towin when we get nothing from Dejuan and Furphy really nothing too

@Crimsonorblue22 if he ain’t coming back might as well, that’s what is stupid about CBB compared to CFB. CFB players can play 25% of the season and still redshirt. CBB should change the rule to 5-8 games.

Game plan was obviously to drive against their clunky center, but we still missed most of those shots and didn't even get to the freethrow line. Furphy hasn't touched the ball since the first 6 minutes.

Chuck some threes and crash the boards.

D has been pretty good tbh

Jesus Christ Nick

Should have stayed at Towson. Clearly not ready for this.

Only 1 guy on the floor that's power 5 capable right now

Braun is playing hard so far.

COme on Juando

Newman putting them out of their misery

We maybe headed for another 30 point loss folks

we should be down 30 right now

@DanR keep watching lol, they are shooting 50% from 3

We've sucked all year at defending the 3

Looks like Self may have an attack of some kind. His face is so red and set in anger. Wow.

I'm not sure why he expected any different from this group. It's a hot mess

@BeddieKU23 yeah I can’t bring myself to get upset at this one. Onto the dance

@Gorilla72 I thought he actually looked pretty calm probably just telling the guys to have fun and play hard. What else can he do, we ain’t anything great with Kevin and Hunter so this isn’t surprising. KU was underdogs by 1.5 points, I glad I picked Cincinnati to cover. I’ve start bet against us because it makes feel a little better.

I don't know... this still could get interesting. Shooting 32% and 0-7 from three. Can't get much worse than that and not quite out of it yet.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@BeddieKU23 yeah I can’t bring myself to get upset at this one. Onto the ~~dance~~

next year. Just lack the horses.

Everyone looks afraid to shoot

I agree with Fran shockingly, Johnny just hasn’t looked like a NBA player

They get the small carnival rim in the second half

As much as i understand its the new order of things, knowing Jamari and Elmarko are gone after this year really is a kick in the nuts.

dajuan best pg in america lmao

Self doesn't care about the Big 12 Tournament and never has. Was hoping the players would be playing free and loose knowing there's not really an option behind them.

This group just has no killer instinct in them and that's really the biggest downfall of Harris with this group. He's the leader, but his quiet and passive personality has rubbed off as the personality of this team. I'd love to see Hunter step up as the leader next year and have the team take on his personality and play with an edge.

I thibk they felt bad for us and gave us a foul

Hard to make shots when not looking to score except for bunnies.

@Texas-Hawk-10 i dont see hunter as a leader either, hes goofy.

EJ go get it

waiting for the rebound to bounce to him

lol Elmarko. Just grab the rebound and save the and one. 🤦‍♂️

Hunter is a great Shaq to someone’s Kobe. Need a Kobe next year

@rcjhdraft him being voted as the 4th best in the conference is all you need to know about that. Elmarko has out played him today so far.

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 i dont see hunter as a leader either, hes goofy.

I didn't say he was, I said I wish he would step up into that role because he plays with an edge and is as an asshole at times and this team needs that.

Still making some bonehead plays, but this is a new Elmarko that I like

let's cut this to ten and regroup

nope

Shout out to our fans that still showed up for this tournament knowing we had zero chance of winning a game.

He really can't shoot outside that midrange jumper

Fans, like us, are stuned. Just not used to this level of play

@BeddieKU23 for sure I do like him being aggressive tho, you can’t make a shot of you don’t take it.

How Elmarko was a 5 star is beyond me. With the way people change schools now maybe the rating scale should change to reflect what they will be their freshman year and not beyond.

Furphy needs to shoot more. He has shot only 3 times. Timber needs to change his name to Bricklayer.

Not sure which is worse, our shooting or the officiating. It’s a tie. Blech

Trio of Nick, Elmarko and Harris are 4-17 from field.

I honestly don’t think it was that was that bad of a half guys. We continue to miss layups and open 3s that just seems to be who we are as a team. We’ve had that same issue when Hunter and Kevin were here as well. If Juan makes a couple of those floaters and Nick hits one several good looks we are feeling good right now. I just don’t understand why we struggle so badly to make shots, even high percentage ones most highschool teams make.

Not making shots would be ok if we were a good defensive team. Lately that hasnt been the case.

We have 5 blocks so far.

Is it time for football yet?

I just want to see some effort. That's all.

@RockChalkinTexas I hate saying it but we could lose our 3rd game this season by 20+ points. I’d venture to guess that hasn’t happened in my lifetime. Thats why this season has been so depressing. Preseason #1, championship or bust type feel after PR trip. Add in all the streaks broken with the 2018 season being vacated coupled with historically the worst conference season since the conference expanded to 12 or more teams. A lot of good streaks fell this season and will take decades to restore them if it ever happens again.

Well Cinci is only at 40% from the field but 41% from 3 and +6 on boards.

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Is it time for football yet?

Can't get here soon enough - -Dam who would of thought we would ever be saying something like that

@approxinfinity which is odd because early on in the season we looked solid defensively. I think teams have watched the film on our guys and realize they can drive to kick out for 3 easily. We all don’t guard the pick and roll worth a crap. We have gone under screens for shooters all season like a middle school C team.

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Well Cinci is only at 40% from the field but 41% from 3 and +6 on boards.

Actually that's bettr then what I expected that we had to put on the floor

For reference we’re 152nd in 3% Defense

I think these last three games or so that MAYVE Johnny isn't ready for the NBA and ends up coming back

Nick you gotta take that bud

The pass to nick was at his shoes

I dont blame him

@jayballer67 he been steadily dropping and other players will show out in the tournament and likely drop him further. Unless something crazy happens I see zero chance he plays more than 2 more games this season.

Nick got the cold shoulder on the bench

Dooley doesn’t give a fudge

Juan!

New ball game. Let's go!

MARI LETS GO

Keep it up

Want Jamari to come back. He can get minutes.

When Jamari squares up he can make it.

Let's give the boys a little credit - -( clap , Clap )

@jayballer67 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Let's give the boys a little credit - -( clap , Clap )

stand up at least!

@approxinfinity Coach said he had the demeanor of Devonte!

Good d by elmarko too

Bandwagon fans gone?

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Want Jamari to come back. He can get minutes.

FWIW I don’t think it’s a done deal

Crowd needs to get going again!

@FarmerJayhawk good to hear!

@FarmerJayhawk I'm shocked this was a thing before season is over

Hopefully more of that

@FarmerJayhawk not a done deal? COME ON. Jamari's going to be great, and it should happen at KU.

@Crimsonorblue22 teenagers ¯_(ツ)_/¯

carnival rim getting to Cinci now

@DanR oh I agree. He’s got some Releford to him

Need Juando to take some control here

Missing our 7ft guy.

Well shit. Im gonna pay for it staying up for this, make it worth it boys!

@DanR Good call. Glad Cinci got the memo.

Thought that was an and-1 for Adams.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@DanR oh I agree. He’s got some Releford to him

Releford, Garrett and a little bit of Vick without the cray cray

I recorded it thinking I would fall asleep. Good thing I am retired @approxinfinity!!!

He had accepted the red shirt! Can't be to upset

@DanR good comps. I guess more Travis on offense, Garrett on defense? If he could develop Marcus’s on ball game that would be awesome

Come on boys.

Mari gave up the headband

Good job KJ

Wonder what KJs vertical is

Bad call . No foul

Ah crap we needed one of those

Jamari is a glue guy type player at KU.

Good defense leads to good offense

KJ taking the team on his back right now

Ticky tack shit on the floor for them

Wow

Body

Jumped and rode him hard

Shit Juan

need some subs

Bad offense leads to bad defense…

GOD when we need Johnny the most

@DanR said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

need some subs

Who ya putting in?

Bill is not doing anything to help these 7 guys. Should have taken a TO after KJ's second miss of 4

Jank? He is a Senior. If Bill doesn’t care about B12 tourney. Let the Senior play.

@rcjhdraft said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

dajuan best pg in america lmao

Don’t worry we got another year of this….cant wait!

But he won a title (team accomplishment) yet we ignore this team that he’s the sr pg leader

Coach knows we can win this game

Hey , just think - -if the game ended right now- - - we would be averaging 42 ppg over the last 2 games - - Woo- Hoo

@patoh3 He can't do any worse than nick right?

@RockChalkinTexas said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Shit Juan

He’s digressed in his time at KU….but don’t let blind Bill know

Cincinnati shooting 12 % in the 2nd half - -

@RockChalkinTexas Absolutely. He could actually put some points on the board

@kuballin10 glad you are here to crap on our team so i can revert to being a blind homer down the stretch

KJ with 20 points

@kuballin10 wow weird you’re judging him on his writing skill

holy shit KJ hurt

Crazy that if we could just be 25% from 3 (instead of 8%), we would be winning

Welll crap

He’s Gucci

Dam Furphy hits a three and they stop ply

Balls that big are going to get clanked once in a while

there is seriously something wrong with the basket sight line on the right side of the court

Furphy playing the 5 right now, lol! Who had that on their Bingo card this season?

@Texas-Hawk-10 he's been guarding their big most of the night

Tired legs for Furph

@FarmerJayhawk he's 19

Let it slip away with bad shots

It will be good to have Johnny back next year

@DanR and not in KU shape

Well won't have to worry about games for us the rest of the week.

@DanR said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@FarmerJayhawk he's 19

And didn't come through the AAU scene playing 3+ games in a day at different showcases.

@approxinfinity Sr leader with 4 turnovers 6 points and shot 1 three as defenders go under OVER AND OVER

Stockton or whoever would drill triple after triple to make defenders guard you

Need to have the dream team around him to succeed but he’s the best true pg in America whatever the hell Bill thinks that is he’s getting what his awful scouting deserves. Dude watches Juan play more ball than anyone and thinks he’s the team leader.

Juan has zero reason not to score 15-20 tonight and he’s just flat out not good. It is depressing because we got 1 more year wasting talent because he’s a great story (which he is dude’s had it hard) but this ain’t feel good it’s Kansas and I thought we were leveling up.

Well we aren’t at the 1 that’s for sure…just asinine

4 starters not named Adams are a combined 6-31

So is Liam McNeesons Batman?

Furphy is so overrated

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

So is Liam McNeesons Batman?

We need some dogs…hope he comes on down and hunts his shot

Jackson , Harris - - Timberlake , Furphy - -6-31 from the field

Furphy looks like the guy that finishes all the drills first and plays another 5 pickup games after practice is over.

Nick!

Who recruits the portal for us? Can Case do it next year? We need to focus on portal

1-14 from 3 lol

Humility from a ref

White flag time

@approxinfinity Until we look for a legit score first pg in the portal we could have Lebron walk through the door and it ain’t gonna matter

That’s why this is frustrating. The light is at the end of not this year but legitimately next year.

Bill did all this talking about taking the program to another level and he did…to the depths of his career at KU

Guys just can't hit shots. Mind boggling really.

Furphy quietly going 10,6,8,9 last 4 games and 2 pts on 1-7 shooting tonight lol

Good night guys - -have a good night, see who we play in the Tourney Sunday

Hilarious lack of shot creation on this team

@jayballer67 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Hey , just think - -if the game ended right now- - - we would be averaging 42 ppg over the last 2 games - - Woo- Hoo

scored two points since you mentioned this, wise man

It’s a Christmas miracle

Finally. But too late nick

Lol atta boy Nick just about 16 minutes to late -

Great career!!! (…at Towson). Lol Fran’s a low key prick.

they are actually shooting worse than we are

Was Cincinnati thinking it was a time out while Nick hit that shot ? - - Must have cause he made it

4 minutes of decent basketball would have won this

Not sure why you bring Elmarko here with 20-20 hindsight. Nothing wrong with Juan playing big minutes, thats where i disagree with you @kuballin10 . But Elmarko cant shoot, and Nick has been a headcase.

Hang together guys and keep moving the ball.

Like someone else said, Why didn't Bill at least let Jank play some?----Might have made more treys ans as bad as Cincinnati played - -might of just been some different

Furphy been so bad recently he might come back

Johnny will test but my money is on him coming back

@rcjhdraft who wants him now?
That's just BS he's ready

they just look uncoached

terrible

Well, we have been spoiled by Bill giving maybe more of a damn than a sane person would have with some of those rosters he won the league with. Look back at some of those rosters. Sure some were loaded but some were THIN. Hes afforded a mulligan this season. But really hope the portal looks much better this year

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Johnny will test but my money is on him coming back

I will too. this stretch he has been through proves he still need work

2nd shots

Hell now he puts Jank in

Nick a Sterling -22 tonight sheesh

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Nick a Sterling -22 tonight sheesh

:face_screaming_in_fear:

See you for selection Sunday

4 seed if we are lucky

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Not sure why you bring Elmarko here with 20-20 hindsight. Nothing wrong with Juan playing big minutes, thats where i disagree with you @kuballin10 . But Elmarko cant shoot, and Nick has been a headcase.

Elmarko wasn't brought in with the intentions of starting. He was brought in as a potential OAD who could lead the second unit and potentially play some alongside Harris. The Morris situation more than anything else is what screwed this team over from a composition standpoint.

Give Bill a freak shotblocker and glass eating bohemoth. And 2 40% 3 and D guys. That cost 4 mill?

broke 50. yay. I guess I'll try to enjoy our one more game for this train wreck of a season. I doubt we'll see Kev or Hunter in the big dance.

@approxinfinity well got the glass eater back. Doubt we sign a shot blocker but big wings who can score will happen

It was really real really.

@Texas-Hawk-10 yeah thats a valid point. But you can only have so many guys that cant shoot. And when you lose one or two of the few that could then you are screwed.

Will be an interesting offseason

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 yeah thats a valid point. But you can only have so many guys that cant shoot. And when you lose one or two of the few that could then you are screwed.

That's the point. Losing Morris changed so much about this team. He was an elite level defender on the same level as Harris and McCullar and was the guy on offense that could break a defender down and go get his own shot.

Losing that piece meant that KU was sticking a below average defender and player who needs the ball in his hands to fill that role of off ball guard. This altered KU's defensive plans because having 4 very good to elite defenders would've covered Dickinson's deficiencies much better and would've created much better spacing on offense.

Why keep bring up Morris? He shouldn't have been here.We didn't lose that POS

@DanR said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Why keep bring up Morris? He shouldn't have been here.We didn't lose that POS

I'm not seeing anyone here saying he should still be a part of this team, but his bad decisions off the court are a central part of KU's issues on the court this season whether you like it or not.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I'm saying he never should have set foot in Lawrence. It sounds like you are explaining if only he was still on the team, we could have been better... because of his non rapist defense and shot creating skills. If you're saying the mistake was recruiting him instead of going full on for Harrison Ingram then I agree.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Morris wouldn’t makeup for this mess

Please don’t insult Mccullar by saying juan is on his level

Everyone watched the game and our best player was clearly evident…..and it sure as hell wasn’t Juan but yeah gotta replace the4

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Morris wouldn’t makeup for this mess

Please don’t insult Mccullar by saying juan is on his level

Everyone watched the game and our best player was clearly evident…..and it sure as hell wasn’t Juan but yeah gotta replace the4

Can you explain in depth your thoughts on Harris again? I don't think you've explained it well enought the first 1,000,002 times this season.

Well I was spared watching the 1st half. Recorded game, accidentally saw the halftime score. Fast forwarded, got a little excited, but pfffffffttttt!! Oh well. Not a surprising result to be honest. I hope the chat wasn't too harsh. I hope the team knows some good doctors to get Hunt and Kev healthy by next Thursday/Friday! That's our only hope for winning a few more games.

The conference streak ended a few years back and it was a bit tough to take. But when the day comes that the season ends this week, then the realities of what almost every program goes through will really hit hard.

10 on vacation:

“Hey! How’d it go?”
“Good.”
“Cool! Do anything fun?”
“Don’t want to talk about it.”
“Ok… anything not what you expected?”
30 minute tirade about how a waiter (named Juan) brought him a Coors instead of a Bud

@Texas-Hawk-10 It is because our multi million dollar coach thinks his d2 athlete pg is the greatest gift to KU pg’s. It is such a befuddling scout that I can’t shut up about it

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 It is because our multi million dollar coach thinks his d2 athlete pg is the greatest gift to KU pg’s. It is such a befuddling scout that I can’t shut up about it

Can you be a little bit more detailed about Harris please? This 1,000,003 explanation still isn't clear enough for me.

BREAKING: Juan did 9/11

@Texas-Hawk-10 tbf multi syllable words give him trouble

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

BREAKING: Juan did 9/11

I call BS on that, he only shot Kennedy.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

BREAKING: Juan did 9/11

I call BS on that, he only shot Kennedy.

Wait that can’t be right he can’t shoot 😂

“Juan needs players around him and tonight we didn’t have that” - Self just now in postgame. Goes on to list shooting stats of everyone but Juan.

From the other board and 100% true…Juan can’t score “when he wants too” glad @BShark finally can’t argue anymore on this

Bill is a genius but on this player opinion he is 100% wrong and an idiot

I just rewatched post game. Coach said that we had 4 starters shoot 8-39. That's it. Figure it out? Somebody is lying! It's on espn+, feel free to watch it. Let me know if you can't figure it out. I hate lying! Can't trust them ever again. If you do it to belittle someone, it's even worse.

@Crimsonorblue22 yep, starters sans KJ were 8-39

The positive: Elmarko with potentially the best play of his college career.

The negative: Everything else.

The why award: everything Juan did. Wow.

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 It is because our multi million dollar coach thinks his d2 athlete pg is the greatest gift to KU pg’s. It is such a befuddling scout that I can’t shut up about it

When Coach brought up Magic Johnson to save him from criticism a few months ago…I knew he was too far gone to save.

Hope this offseason all positions are recruited and no position is safe.

@rockchalkjayhawk I like Juan, he’s a good kid but he is a long shot from best PG not only in the nation but this conference. He was honorable mention for a reason. Not a stat that proves he’s great sorry but he limits us.

I love everything Juan has done for KU but 5 years is too much. Imagine Tyshawn Taylor getting a 5th year. It would be more of the same. But he is one of Self's favorites so he's not going anywhere.

@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying

@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.

The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……

@RockkChalkk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Hope this offseason all positions are recruited and no position is safe.

I’m laughing because you and I know that won’t happen……you guys have watched his career and Self’s protection of him for half a decade and you think just magically Self is gonna recruit a pg to start over Juan….hecckkkkk no.

It will be a “you can start at the 2 next to Juan”…just ask LJ Cryer

@BigBad Tyshawn was really good his Sr. year. I’d take another year of that.

@BigBad

Tough topic, It's either a business first and only where you discard them like the NBA or still hold onto the fabric of College Sports where your coach cares about you as a person and wants to set you up for success. We know that Self is still the coach that cares.

@BeddieKU23 I think that Self for sure cares and no personal attack to Juan but he’s gone as far as he can as a player. Literally pull up his stats. They are identical from sophomore year to this year in most categories some he’s actually regressed in. He obviously cares a great deal about KJ as well but having those two in guaranteed starting spot is as mentioned above absolutely killer in recruiting.

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying

@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.

The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……

Coach told us the guys around Juan have to be better. Which is 100 percent true. But if you’re only serviceable when you play next to pro wings and all conference bigs…then how good are you truly?

@kjayhawks Juan is literally propped up by team accomplishments and bill’s absolute blindness to his actual abilities is what has brought the team to this low level.

KJ actually can contribute he showed that last night. He can be a Royce white point forward type when given the leash. Whether 6th man off the bench or what he has a clear role with our squad.

I said it earlier and was called negative ect and it is literally playing out exactly as expected. Juan is not a good player at the D1 level. He would be a great backup but the fact our coach thinks he’s the best pg in America is comically bad.

This all hurts recruiting when it comes to guards and guards are what win titles. You need more good guards…u can get away with only having 1 legit big.

Bill has lost it

@TYOHawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying

@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.

The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……

Coach told us the guys around Juan have to be better. Which is 100 percent true. But if you’re only serviceable when you play next to pro wings and all conference bigs…then how good are you truly?

The constant defending and pushing the blame on other players just shows Bills true colors. It is literally never Juan’s fault in Bills mind.

@kuballin10 u were called negative because you are negative. Juan would be fine if he had the right crew around him. You just can't have this many guys who aren't shooters. want Juan to be one of them fine.

@kuballin10 why arent you dogging Elmarko? Kid can't shoot the 3 ball, or dogging Nick? Clearly underwhelming. Or bitch about Self recruiting a rapist that has made exactly zero threes for KU. Juan is better than all those guys. You're barking up the wrong tree.

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@kuballin10 why arent you dogging Elmarko? Kid can't shoot the 3 ball, or dogging Nick? Clearly underwhelming. Or bitch about Self recruiting a rapist that has made exactly zero threes for KU. Juan is better than all those guys. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Greta questions let’s dive in.

Elmarko has played organized ball for what 3-4 years he wasn’t to be relied on as some come in and dominate Wiggins type.

Nick - staff whiffed and he is bad.

Morris - On self

Two of the three suck because guards know the pg spot is untouchable it’s the reason we can’t get anyone worth their salt.

The reason I dog Juan is because it’s his team he’s the senior he knows the system he’s supposed to step up and score 12 ppg and LEAD the team.

It’s the expectation for every KU pg who’s jr or sr here!!! Why does Bill and you and the entire fan base excuse it or not replace him with a better pg???

I couldn’t fathom Dotson not scoring and everyone was cool with it and instead blaming our bench for not picking up a starters production.

What about Mason or Graham did we blame the bench as to why Mason or Graham didn’t lead successful teams? No, cause they took the reins and scored.

This whole crux of the bench needs to step up is asinine. The top 5 guys all have to be a threat to score and look to score.

We got a Sr pg who it’s his time and he can’t cut it and we got an entire year with him doing this crap all over again

Aaron Miles couldnt lead the team through scoring when we lost to Bucknell. Russ Rob wouldnt have done it by himself. We knew Dajuan wasnt a score first guard. Everything around Dajuan is a dumpster fire. Come on man.

I just dont understand recruiting Elmarko. Again, with 20-20 hindsight. Not a scorer. Should have recruited 3 capable scorers at guard and got none.

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@TYOHawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying

@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.

The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……

Coach told us the guys around Juan have to be better. Which is 100 percent true. But if you’re only serviceable when you play next to pro wings and all conference bigs…then how good are you truly?

The constant defending and pushing the blame on other players just shows Bills true colors. It is literally never Juan’s fault in Bills mind.

I thought I would never see a player beat out Jamari or Frank as Self’s favorite. But I truly believe Dajuan has surpassed them.

@approxinfinity for sure, Self should take some heat for this roster. I said he seat should be warm after this on another thread and got in trouble lol. Not saying you fire the guy but he needs to take accountability for this team in some light. Talking heads will do it if we get bounced early next week.

@kjayhawks

Perhaps that's true about Juan being maxed out as a player here. But he does have 1 offseason left to work on his game and we can all just hope that Self not only brings in enough quality depth where Juan can actually get a rest in games but the competition it will bring by having others in the room will help to keep Juan sharp and continuing to grow. I mean there has to be a % of Juan's struggles this year being attributed to zero competition at the PG position and no opportunity for a rest. No iron sharpening iron here. Elmarko cannot play the position and is frankly overmatched at this level currently. Same happened the previous year with Pettiford and Yesufu.

I would agree I don't think Juan is going to become the athletic & offensive player we want. It is what it is.

Let's remember that Coach was either just getting out of or was still in the hospital this time last year. That health issue, coupled with the SELF imposed discontinuing recruitment visits and the first 4 games of the season, helped create the roster we were left with. He is, in my opinion, a part of the reason for the season that was just played out. We went from #1 in preseason to losing the most conference games in decades. Injuries have always plagued us (Embid, Doke, even Dave McC and on and on) but there were reliable shooters/defenders always on the bench. We just plain and simple didn't have a one that we deep down knew could pull his weight.

No offense = no points.

@kuballin10 So why don't you start your own topic - "Bill is Juan blind dude with respect to the PG" and voice your displeasure all you want and you can vent and we can just ignore your opinion. People that are interested could read what you have to say. That would save a lot of irritation for all of us unless you like being irritating. You have been heard! We know your stance! You have given us Pete (original opinion) and repeat ad nauseum! It would be good to hear other opinions that you have other than dogging Juan. Just saying. Have a great day! (Seriously).

I totally get the frustrations with Juan and its nothing to do with how good he is as a person. I think we all agree on that. Its just really tough to watch him out there still playing like a freshmen when he is a senior with so much experience.

@patoh3 i agree with this request that you @kuballin10 make your own thread but also i am fully prepared to talk this out there. I think it warrants its own thread on the merits (if not for toxicity containment)

I think Aaron Miles, Russ Rob and Marcus Garrett are all the right comps here. As much as I love Frank he didnt get to a FF. All three of these guys and Dajuan did.

@BeddieKU23 definitely valid points about Juan and the situation but not very many good PGs are gonna want come in and play second fiddle to him. Best bet to me is to get a guy from the portal that is proven to be decent just needs to improve his game while having 2 or 3 years left to play.

@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

I think Aaron Miles, Russ Rob and Marcus Garrett are all the right comps here. As much as I love Frank he didnt get to a FF. All three of these guys and Dajuan did.

All 3 are better than Juan imo and it’s not really close either.

@kjayhawks said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

@BeddieKU23 definitely valid points about Juan and the situation but not very many good PGs are gonna want come in and play second fiddle to him. Best bet to me is to get a guy from the portal that is proven to be decent just needs to improve his game while having 2 or 3 years left to play.

True best case scenario is Philon becomes a star immediately. Very unlikely though

@approxinfinity I don’t think making a FF is a must for a great PG. I think at least one good run is true but I think Frank gets a FF is one of our best players in Doke wasn’t injured. Who they play with is a great measuring stick to me. Looking at Juan, the other guys on the floor with him on that title team. Ochai- NBA, Braun- NBA, J-Wil - NBA and Big David is carving out a solid career over seas. You look at RusRobs best team in 08 it also is filled with NBA talent. I think we all agree having talent around you not only makes you better but is able to mask some of your weaknesses.

Edit: few other PGs had a back ups like Sherron Collins (RusRob) and Remy Martin (Juan). It’s worth noting that Sherron played 34 minutes to RusRobs 20 in the NC and Remy Played 21 to Juan’s 27 but played almost all of the second half and more than Juan in other tournament games.

@TYOHawk The list of PGs I think Juan is better than since Self has been here. Tharpe and Hawkins, that’s the list. Yes he has a NC but as I said above he didn’t play a ton the last 15 minutes and had a bone head turnover and when he did. Also the minutes logged is a factor to me.

Stat I just came across on X, anyone wanna guess the last time Kansas lost back to back games by 20 plus points? 1919 under coach Hamilton against Fizzou in back to back games.

Well that is depressing.

My 2 cents: Russ Rob and Sheron are a good comparison. As a tandem, Russ was the floor general but Sherron found more and more minutes as the season progressed for his contrasting abilities, including scoring.

In 21-22, Juan worked out well with Remy similarly. i recall the team looking very sketchy during many games that season when Remy wasn’t available and Juan had to play the majority of minutes.

There were three ways Remy made Juan better: 1) Remy was a scoring threat — especially 3s — so he took significant scoring burden off Juan, 2) Remy sometimes replaced Juan and that allowed Juan to be more fresh, and 3) Remy was stylistically a completely different kind of PG, which was complimentary but also - don’t underestimate this - hard for teams to adjust back and forth.

I believe Self was trying to get a similar pair this year with Juan and Arterio. It never had a chance to play out but I can imagine that a second guard like Arterio would have been a game changer because he’s so different/complimentary to Juan. Juan has some solid qualities. He clearly has Self’s confidence in running the offense and is a good passer. He can be a solid second tier scorer.

This year - and especially in these recent games where we’ve been without a tier 1 scorer - we needed him to be something he is not.

I think it’s wrong to beat him to a pulp for this. I even give Self some slack because I think he knows Juan’s limitations. You can’t win championships if you aren’t intimately aware of each player’s strengths (and weaknesses) and set them up for success.

Shit happens. Sometimes multiple shit happens. That’s where we are right now. But that’s not where we have to be next year. And let’s not sound like whiny, overreacting Kentucky fans while we process our disappointing season.

It’s a fricking miracle we haven’t had a similarly down year in the last 25 years.

Appropriately, Self and the staff will do some reflection and look for ways to improve. The game is evolving. I can see changes to the officiating and I also see teams scouting us much more effectively. Maybe we are too predictable. I leave it to the basketball minds to figure it out.

Anyway, go back and look at Juan in 21-22. The 23-24 version is largely the same. Self values that consistency and predictability in the PG. Remy drove him crazy. Sherron had to grow into that role. Devonte did too (recall it was Mason.and Graham initially)

It is what it is. And what it usually is, is 25 wins and a conference championship. Not this year, but… usually.

We will still be in the tournament (I would not be surprised if the committee hits us with a 6-seed). We still have the same opportunity that every other team in the tourney has.

We could capture lightning in a bottle and win 6 straight.

Or, we could lose in the first round. That would suck but I doubt any of us would be shocked.

Either way, the sun will come up tomorrow

@bskeet I agree completely and would add that Harris’s presence on the team allowed Self to slow walk Remy and in essence force him to play better D before getting significant PT. And dollars to donuts Harris helped Remy with how to do that. Harris is a solid team player. But, as you point out, he has limitations and needs to be paired with complementary players to be at his best. And this year, sadly, he wasn’t.

@kjayhawks said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:

Stat I just came across on X, anyone wanna guess the last time Kansas lost back to back games by 20 plus points? 1919 under coach Hamilton against Fizzou in back to back games.

Oh, we were a mess back then too. "Send Hamilton to the Germans, maybe we'll finish them off" was a common comment on the Bucket.

@wissox the immortal Leonard Hamilton.

@kjayhawks

I think we go after the top end guards to find a starter and then hopefully pick up a mid-major guy who's proven himself or a young P5 Player on the rise.

If we don't have at least 3 PG options going into next season I don't understand what we are doing. All year it's been a glaring issue. Juan shouldn't be playing 36 minutes a game even if he was your star scorer. It's nuts.

Philon coming in is going to be good but tough to know how good he can be in year 1 until we start hearing what's going on in summer/fall

As I look at the highly rated teams, most have PG’s that score and have a number of assists. Would really like to have that next year…

@Gorilla72 Guards win in March…see big 12 and big east title games.

We aren’t looking at any starting pg’s because in Bill’s mind we have the best pg in America. I’ve read many other posters on this site and especially the other site that are the most disinterested in next year because who is at that spot.

Pretty frustrating when the coach who supposedly never guarantees starter minutes has two guys that are absolutely untouchable (especially Juan next year).

Juan is the 6/7th best pg in the big 12 and that’s proven to be who we are even with TWO all Americans around him.

@kuballin10 two injured 3rd team all americans, to be clear.

I dont buy the “untouchable” business. Sherron didnt ride pine. Malik and Remy had time to shine, etc. If we had a capable scorer that could spell Dajuan we would use them.

@approxinfinity Bill is notorious for starting guys but finishing with other guys. There's no reason roster spot 6 and 7 shouldn't be getting BIG minutes unless they just aren't producing. Which is what is happening this year. Those 8-10 spots are really role dependent but we always need a back up big and a back up guard that can come in without any drop in level of play or even provide a spark or a little different look. If the dudes were there, Self would play them. He always has.