Anytime there is a week plus gap in games it just throws everything out of whack. I dont know about everyone else but I'm ready for this lull to end and to see what Self has been cooking up with all the practice time. This team has had a good couple weeks of practice to figure some things out. Against Brown it felt like that was a bit of improvement from NC St which was better then the previous week. I believe we are seeing slow growth.

West Virginia has been a surprise. Have a win against Gonzaga. A familiar name is leading them and will be out for blood against us in Small who leads them in scoring at 20 a game. We almost landed him at various times in the portal this past offseason but it didn't happen and of course he ends up at a conference foe. Seems to happen more often then not. Their perhaps best player Tucker Devries has been injured and not sure of his status for the game but if he's out then that's a huge boost. He is the protypical bad matchup for KU as he can really shoot it. Anyone know if Devries is out??

From what I've seen they play 4/5 out with Hansberry the lone big, an athletic big who can shoot from the perimeter as well. He gives up tons of size to Hunt but would be a good matchup for KJ to find his inner Cooper Flagg motivation and lock him down. Small is going to get his it looks by the way he's improved but Hansberry seems like the guy they need to limit otherwise. Glad this one is at home because I think this game is going to be very challenging for us to score. 27th ranked D via Kenpom isn't imposing but we have tanked against teams throwing multiple different defensive looks like zone and ball pressure and that's what this West Virginia team does well so far. Good thing we had a week to prepare.

Would love to see the Zeke Mayo hot streak continue. He's been our best player the last two games and he's our difference maker when he's on.

More minutes for Shak Moore. Having that backup for Harris is beyond vital and it sounds like he's finally getting there to be that guy. He really could be the key to the season as listening to Self talk about certain roles getting defined with Moore healthy seems like a good thing for the team overall.

When will the light bulb come on for Storr. I gather Self really wants him to be in the starting lineup but he just hasn't put it together.. he would also elevate this team's ceiling if he started to figure it out.

Looking forward to this marathon conference season

@BeddieKU23 Devries is out "indefinitely". There is even some medical RS talk

Taking the nephew to this game. Will be his first!

@BShark

That sucks for him and the team. Good player, have followed him a bit at his previous spot. That's huge for this matchup then because all their big wins were with him

I’m expecting a low scoring drag-out fight to the finish. Seems like we always look bad after no games and heavy practice. It’s like a complete start over to the season. I have a feeling it will come down to Hunt and Zeke scoring half or more of our points. I always jinx us on predictions so I’ll predict a loss. 😎

Rumblings: AJ Storr starts in this game.

@BShark said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Rumblings: AJ Storr starts in this game.

IMO this is best case scenario. Hopefully he has earned it practice, and that carries over to games. This allows for Griffen to come off the bench and be instant offense.

@BShark said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Rumblings: AJ Storr starts in this game.

Interesting.

Looks like the first team to 72 or so wins. The time has come when teams stay relevant or not week to week. Let us get off to a relevant start please.

Prediction KU 80, WVU 64.

@wissox

I'll take it. Anything that has KU with more pts.

I'm going 70-61

Ol friend Yesufu on WV

Vegas has this at -13.5..

I'm glad when I was a student I didn't have to jump up and down in the stands.

I'd like to amend my score prediction.

WVU multiple shots near the rim - zero for the Hawks..

Yeah ugly

I do remember some epic comebacks against WVU.

@wissox said in West Virginia- a game finally:

I do remember some epic comebacks against WVU.

There shouldn't have to be one at home, esp. with WVU short-handed...

I think if we come back the fans should storm the court.

Perfect shot adams

Keep on brickin

Wow

How fun is this?

@wissox 🤢

Starters ain't it today

Good things happen when you attack the rim...

It seems like we are acting like it is a pregame walkthrough.

Maybe they will wake up

Maybe someone else should have started the game thread......?

Bidunga not getting that board on that last possession is very frustrating. Did very little to win that battle

Grab some bench Zeke, seemed like that was DaJuans fault.

We're on pace for 28 pts....

I’m at work and can’t watch…maybe a good thing zero energy sounds like

7 points under 9 minutes left.

WVU has 8 made buckets - 7 of them dunks or at the rim...

This offense is pathetic

@wissox no

@Crimsonorblue22 YES! Wait, no to what, I've written like 20 stupid things already?

@wissox zekes bad pass into the back court

Another game unprepared.. I dont get it

can't hit shots

Just got word that in the spirit of Bowl week they've renamed this the Toilet Bowl.

Yesufu is getting more FaceTime than any of KU players.

Not even worth it

And 1

@Crimsonorblue22 should have been.

Can we get to 20 by the half?

Walk

Walk hunter right to the bench.

We have hit 20 with a minute left.

Hard to believe what I've watched this half. I just don't understand it

We should use some fouls here.

Harris can sit

Or let them score

Zeke should have shot the last shot.

I honestly can't remember the last time we played this poor at home. This is up there in the Self era

@patoh3 I mean the layup before the ball went out.

@BeddieKU23 I was about to say the same thing.

Too many lapses in defense allowing WV to dunk or shoot layups.

Shame on me for being excited for a game after a week.

Well we certainly crapped the bed in that 1st half didn't we.-- KJ has got to sit, not rebounding , not scoring exactly what is he doing ? - -I've supported KJ for a long time- - but now geez

@BeddieKU23 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Shame on me for being excited for a game after a week.

I hope you're wearing a paperbag!

Meanwhile UK and Baylor are taking care of business.

Me and Dicky V, beat cancer again this year!

The defense is just alarmingly bad.

What a game for Darryn Peterson to come to watch. Hope he does not change his mind.

All I have to say is , if this is the seventh ranked team in the Nation ?- --Then if that is the case it's a really crap year in College Basketball. Thiss id NOT the number 7 team in the Nation maybe not even top 20

West Virginia with excellent defense from the announcers. All i saw was KU Bricking open shots

KJ and AJ - 2pts combined with zero rebounds or assists...

@DCHawker said in West Virginia- a game finally:

KJ and AJ - 2pts combined with zero rebounds or assists...

Is that good?

Look Self you gotta make a change at pg wtf

This reminds me of watching the White Sox.

Is the team sick?

Ah yes, they have the brickness.

we've committed 1 foul all game.

Griffen is trying to become the new Timberlake for missing the most wide open shots award

you figure W Virginia is smackin that ass without their two best players. Do we have a best player ?

If that's the shot you get out of a timeout it's time to call it quits

I bet that one guy who pisses ya'll off is having a great day.

This game is on self.. same thing happens every time on defense and zero adjustments

As bad as the offense has been, the defense has arguably been worse. They are continually getting shots at the rim...

Why do we not have more than 1 player around the rim? How many bunnies have they made based upon this poor scheme of defense?

Wherre in the GD HELL is the defense - I mean come on for God's sakes

Sure Hunt, slack off on defense in the paint.

@BeddieKU23 I thought this is a trolling and blockable take?

Honestly Juan’s lack of looking to score sucks BUT

The biggest issue is hunter’s defense is so poor it makes his offense irrelevant

And

They don’t guard kj and he can’t do anything offensively

Teams just coaching circles around Bill and he’s lost this team

Just like Saban bowed out Bill will do the same

Wvu more athletic and better coaches this “Bill’s 1990’s way”

A well deserved loss for the players and the coach

@patoh3 Coach has the choice not to play him….

@patoh3 maybe try 4 guards to score???
20 points in a half

We might win 1 road game all year…9-7 trash

@kuballin10 Is there a block on your keyboard that is only released when the Hawks play bad?

KJ can't score -- Hunter is HUGE liability on defense , you knew Zeke --could have an off day with the three- -Storr hasn't played a lick if D in his life - -who knows what the hell is wrong with Griffen--- Moore hasn't barely touched the floor
We have instantly become the laughing stock of the Big twelve

Flory and Hunter

Bill you’ve lost your mind brother

@patoh3 I was here positive and raving all Duke game but hey let’s ignore those facts and be the media just focusing on the negative

@DCHawker Because our coach can’t figure out how to have Hunter defend a ball screen so teams just annihilate us on it

@kuballin10 I know that. I am just kidding you. The positive comments were a good look on you.

I don't get nervous til the last minute.

@patoh3 Short lived I’m honest to admit

I’m just sick of this trash and Bill valuing stuff that doesn’t win titles

OMG. Hunter, don’t slack off ball handler in the paint!

Flory what a move! Best post move by a KU big today

Play flory more!!! Around 4 guards Bill!!!

Flory needs to be playing more then KJ. Much more athletic, much better rebounder

Flory killin it on the boards like right at eight- - just brings so much more then KJ

Atta Boy Flory

Flory flory flory!!!

In and out! Dang

Flory has added the spark that we needed today! Keep it up!!

Flory got to watch those happy feet when he's attempting to get his shot up. Thought he'd travelled twice on his last two buckets.

If Zeke can hit these, cut it to four

Make these we would be at least within legit reach of this

Flory with nine rebounds - -now ten rebounds

That's the Yesefu that I kind of remember and have tried to forget.

I love it when the announcer’s talking is ahead of the video on the TV.

@SlimShaddy54 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Flory with nine rebounds - -now ten rebounds

And, KJ, playing the same position has - sorry - one...

@DCHawker said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@SlimShaddy54 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Flory with nine rebounds - -now ten rebounds

And, KJ, playing the same position has zero...

EXACTLY

Dang Coit

WHERE THE HELL WAS THAT WHEN HE WAS HERE

Yesufu has more points than KJ, AJ and Rylan combined......

@DCHawker said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Yesufu has more points than KJ, AJ and Rylan combined......

Is that good?

@DCHawker AJ is a waste.- --- he has done nothing all year, kinda like overpaid Hawkings for K/State

That's the hunter we know at the line

Getting some whistles today at least.

@wissox said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Getting some whistles today at least.

Until that backcourt call.

We deserve this badly

This Team will be lucky to make the tournament

We need to foul just to get them to the bonus.

If we need a correct backcourt violation call to help us win we've got some real problems.

Small has completely controlled the game...

Thought he was out of bounds

KJ you're an idiot

Yet once again KJ with a weak ass effort going to the rim...

Man that is some poor refereeing and some poor playing by us, dang

Right call there for Zeke to get layup with and 1

Could see that one coming

Should be 2 shot foul.

Dang can’t catch a break here at the end

That ball should not have been in KJ’s hands.

Well deserved loss. Not gonna argue refs or anything.

So lame, and at our house too :-(

Does not bode well for our conference play

We should of never been in this position in the first place

Zeke absolutely the one carrying this team right now

An absolute embarrassment to this basketball program. Piss poor coaching end of story, guys continually aren’t ready to play. No reason for a freshman like flory to be on the floor in that situation. Zero reason for KJ to get that ball in that situation, he wasn’t fouled just watch it again. Self has lost this team and we will be lucky to go .500 in this conference what a fucking joke this program has turn into the last few years.

It was a hell of a comeback. Went to shit when Flory was pulled for KJ who made three quick fouls and missed an easy game winner. Flory and Zeke you guys were great. Again a KU team that gets down big in the first half like 15 in this game. Storr, Griffen, Coit where are you.

Welp. This hurts! In spite of that, Happy New Year everyone!!

@Zabudda they were on the bench where they should be. Storr is worthless

Until the light comes on for Storr and Griffen, this team won't be any better than last season.

Flory needs to be on the floor more- - he was the one who got us back in this-- Eight points and Eleven rebounds , and Zeke once again leading scorer 27 points- -mercy

When does bad minton start ?

@SlimShaddy54 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Flory needs to be on the floor more- - he was the one who got us back in this-- Eight points and Eleven rebounds , and Zeke once again leading scorer 27 points- -mercy

Yes he was everywhere and even able to guard the guards. His board work and making tough shots was great to see. KJ was out of it from the first play of the game which he screwed up. Flory needs to start over KJ and others.

Time to retire.

@BShark I'm not at all upset that I had to work today and didn't get to see that crap-fest. Come on, football season!

"I’m expecting a low scoring drag-out fight to the finish. Seems like we always look bad after no games and heavy practice. It’s like a complete start over to the season. I have a feeling it will come down to Hunt and Zeke scoring half or more of our points. I always jinx us on predictions so I’ll predict a loss."

This was too easy to predict.

I know playing bad happens to the best of teams. But this showed way more than playing bad. This loss clearly goes to our coaching.

I only caught the last 10 minutes of the game. That told me everything I needed to know. In just that period we must have been beat 5 times on the high ball screen with Hunter stepping out and their big on a pick and roll destroying us every time. You all saw the whole game. How many times did they crush us with that? We all know Hunter is slow... why would we have him step out on a high ball screen? What happened to teaching our guards how to fight through screens?

When the same thing beats us over and over in a game and we don't adjust, who takes the fault for the loss?

Beyond that... it looks like some of our old team habits from many years... not showing up ready to play a game. I was so hopeful this year in our early games where we came out with enthusiasm and ran.

This is way beyond ridiculous. It feels like someone should call it in to the feds for intentionally blowing a game for gambling reasons.

@BShark Dang that coming from you is rough….

levelup!

Excuse me... any new believers?

/topic/13581

Here is his stats for the game:

28 minutes... 2 points on 1 of 5 fg attempts. 1 rebound (def rebound). 1 TO. 3 PF.

This game showed me what I’ve known all along

I’d trade our 1 and 5 for their 1 and 5 in a heartbeat

Small was interested but Bill can’t sit his favorites or recruit over them

A stud pg who can score, defend and beat his man consistently off the dribble

A 5 man who is athletic as heck, defends the entire halfcourt/and rim and dunks everything

@BShark I vote and I'm about to retire with him unfortunately.What happened to the 4 around 1 that won you a Natty you would think that's the winning formula.Instead of reverting back to this shit.

@BShark ya get out while your ahead

I don’t know what DaJuan or KJ has on Coach but it’s essentially neutered my goat.

Kinda sad that the kid we passed on in the beginning is the one who is having to carry us I don't know where the hell we would be without Zeke right now.

Someone needs to put a can of TNT up Hunters ass the guy is such a liability on defense

Pretty saad when the Refs comes up and admits the Back court call was a missed call. Well super little late for that now, but the efs didn't cost us this game - -some players cost us this game, our Coach playing the wrong players

Coach tells Zeke needs to attack more - -Zeke 13-13 from the line, think he got the message

Kj 2 points 1 board in 28 minutes

Bill plays nba guess less minutes and gives kj all the leash in the world

Text thread with former players looking real juicy right now!

Games past Bill by and his lack of adjustments are asinine

Last play was a great call to the wrong effin player

Throw it to Hunt or Flory or Zeke but don’t throw it into Kj so he can’t even get a shot up

Self is so disconnected from the reality with this team. He doesn’t maximize his roster and never has. It’s break them down military style to gain his trust then you can do no wrong. If you get on the wrong side of his trust you are screwed oh and if you are new you are screwed

WVU missing two starters, brand new coach and looked lightyears better than us
Nice to see Joe play loose!

Why recruit hoopers from previous teams and not let them play to get a feel for the way we play.But instead you bench players for a guy who is never gonna sniff the NBA.Its no way you sit on the bench and see teams not guard KJ and say this is good offense.Juan isnt the issue he needs shooters around him and so does Hunter to operate.Get your head out your ass Bill

Bill benched KJ for a long stretch in the second half then used him situationally at the end of the game. He got a steal and drew a foul (both of which were mitigated by officiating errors). I am also disgruntled with KJs overall play today, but I am not really sure what more one would want from Bill in that regard. Benching KJ and then correctly using him situationally for a couple minutes is about all you can ask for.

@NormRoberts AJ Storr was never a good fit for this roster. He's never played any defense, still hasn't here. His idea of playing food defense is the same as most of my 7th grade team who have never played organized basketball before which is chase every pass to swipe at taking himself out of the play. On offense, Storr us a ball dominant player who plays like James Harden, but has about 30% of Harden's ability.

I also believe Storr is a bit uncoachable which is why this is his 7th different team in 7 years going back to high school. Storr has the physical tools to be an NBA player, but he doesn't have it between the ears to be one at this point. I don't know whether that's all on AJ, his family, or whoever is in his ear, but unless he figures something out, he'll be with his 8th team in 8 years next season.

I'd be curious to know which assistant coaches do the advanced scouting for which games and comes up with the scouting reports for each opponent.

It seems like this has become a major weakness for the staff and that's not all on Self. It seems Norm Roberts and Jeremy Case are pretty weak in this area and if there's any discussions about replacing assistant coaches in the offseason because it does seem like our scouting and preparation for games has been a major weakness the past couple of seasons.

I really like KJ and glad he is a Jayhawk - just not as a 30 mpg starter. Against P5 level competition this year - WVU, NC State, Mizzou, Creighton, Duke, MSU, and UNC, he has reached double figures just twice - 11 and 14 pts. More than 5 RBs just once. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't block out, he can't shoot, can't create his own shot, can't shoot over length, and he doesn't use his strength to attack the rim and draw fouls. He can guard the perimeter, knows the offense, and the ball doesn't stick with him. Would be a really good 10-15 minutes bench player who can bring energy and enthusiasm. Expecting more, especially against P5 frontcourt athletes, is simply inexplicable...

@Texas-Hawk-10 from the pregame, I think it was Norm, he said they did 2, one w/ and w/out their star player.

Obviously at this point it’s time to call a spade a spade. Bill Self sucks ass at roster construction, Moore, Griffen, Coit, Storr and KJ combined for 5 points and 5 rebounds. That’s maybe the most ridiculous line I’ve ever seen. All guys hand picked by Bill Self. As I’ve been saying for 2 years now KJ has no business playing 30 minutes a game and should be in a Lightfoot type role of 15-20 minutes. He played 28 today, if it was 15 we win no question.

The switching 5 defense is a J-O-K-E, yes I realize it worked in 2022. But you’re comparing apples to oranges. We had 4 guards and David McCormick was dam good at ball screen defense. None of our bigs are , the last play for them was too easy. Guard switched to a big, then draw the foul. Bill needs to take a long hard look in mirror at this point.

I’m not normally a ref complainer… Absokute hose job.

Besides that, KJ is either scouted completely or hurt. Either way Flory needs big minutes moving forward.

Diggy needs more time.

Self NEEDS to figure out how to get Storr going and aggressive. Times he has a driving lane he passes. Times he’s completely guarded he tries to drive/dribble.

Still not worried. Team has all the talent, just need to figure out a few more things.

@Kcmatt7 I couldn’t watch with work but listened to bits and the final minute. We shot 22 free throws to their 6, that stat lines are pretty even outside of shooting from the floor. In which I’m hearing Hunt, KJ, Juan and Zeke missed about 5 bunnies a piece. Just not sure how much I buy into the refs costing us.

It was a good call by Self when he took a chance with Flory during our rally. I don't believe WVU grabbed an offensive rebound after that.

@Texas-Hawk-10

I don't know either but he is likely costing himself a fair price of change with the path he has chosen.

@kjayhawks When KU got the lead down to two the first time, the refs blew a call against KU that gave WVU momentum back. Zeke Mayo chased down a bad pass, jumped before crossing the half court line and passed the ball back into the front court, but the refs called him for a halfcourt violation that they admitted after the game was a bad call.

I'm not screaming about the refs costing KU, but that missed call significantly altered the momentum of the game and let WVU go on a mini run to get the lead back to 3 possessions late.

@Texas-Hawk-10 sounds like if a senior led team showed up in the first that wouldn’t have mattered. New nickname for this team: the Lazies, I’m rewatching the game now and we are just flat out getting out hustled to every damn rebound and lose ball. Absolutely unacceptable on all levels.

@Texas-Hawk-10

We first cut it to two they hit a jumper to go up four, Coit missed a trey badly and Yesfu didn't miss and we were seven down just like that with 5 minutes to go. We were still down by six at the 1:36 mark. So for 3 and 1/2 minutes we only made up one point. Their 5 point run shortened the game when we were defending much better.

The last times KU ran with 4 guards:

2022: Juan, Och, Braun, Wilson and McCormick- National title

2020: Dotson, Moss, Garrett, Och and Doke

Number 1 seed in a canceled tournament.

2018: Devonte, Newman, Svi, Vick and Doke

Final four

2017: Mason, Devonte, Svi, JJ and Lucas

Elite 8 likely NC with Doke uninjured

Every year we have ran two bigs since 2014 we have gone home in the first weekend in March. Anyone noticing a trend? Is Self starting to slip mentally? Watching parts of todays game the high low did work for a run with Flory and Hunt. It’s fine periodically but isn’t what you want to be running continuously throughout the game in 2024. There is a picture on X of KJ with the ball at the top of the key, No one within 10 feet of him. To his left Juan, no one with in ten feet of him. To his right Storr, no one with in 10 feet of him. In the corner Mayo has a guy about 6 feet off between him and the bucket. 4 WV defenders have their feet in the paint 3 of them completely surrounding Hunt. Boy Self really went and got shooter folks. I have lost all faith in our head coach friends. Any basketball coach will tell you how important spacing is on offense. Can’t have spacing when no one respects your team offensively

@kjayhawks said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Kcmatt7 I couldn’t watch with work but listened to bits and the final minute. We shot 22 free throws to their 6, that stat lines are pretty even outside of shooting from the floor. In which I’m hearing Hunt, KJ, Juan and Zeke missed about 5 bunnies a piece. Just not sure how much I buy into the refs costing us.

WVU was shooting a lot of floaters vs Zeke driving it to the rim.

The back court violation was not one. Objectively. Cost us a possession. Blown call.

The foul that was a tie up should have been a tie up. Would have been KU ball.

The KJ “foul” on the sideline was not a foul. Guy just went OB.

I’m 100% convinced that KJ was fouled on the final shot/possession.

All of this under 3 minutes to go.

Like absolutely this team needs to learn how to play in the first half. Not sure we deserved to win the game. But I can’t believe the calls missed late.

Zeke Mayo was mad at himself for not getting the and one shots to fall but 13/13 from the line is impressive especially when the announcers had tried to jinx him. He makes scoring look effortless and I think he should get even more points per game going forward. Whatever flipped the switch IDK but it's sweet to watch.

@Kcmatt7

Bill was really pissed by the last call but cut it off and went thru the sportsmanship line.

@Kcmatt7 Funny thing is I'll complain about refs, like I still remember 1986 FF against Duke and getting hosed.

But today we got so many calls go our way today, nothing specific, but fouls and FTs disparity made it hard for me to point at the zebras.

The backcourt violation if you can watch again you'll notice the ref in the front court was right there and saw exactly what happened and I think it was the backcourt ref, not in the best position who anticipated the call and called it.

The play that flat out cost us this game was when we forced the TO with about 20 seconds and KJ inexplicably thinks he's MJ or DrJ and has about the same chance I'd have of making one there. I wish Bill had quick used the last TO, but KJ didn't give him much time to make that decision.

Kudos to WVU and their new coach. Big moment for them.

And I'm wondering what happened to this team who was on top of the world seemingly in November after beating Duke?

@wissox said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Kcmatt7 Funny thing is I'll complain about refs, like I still remember 1986 FF against Duke and getting hosed.

But today we got so many calls go our way today, nothing specific, but fouls and FTs disparity made it hard for me to point at the zebras.

The backcourt violation if you can watch again you'll notice the ref in the front court was right there and saw exactly what happened and I think it was the backcourt ref, not in the best position who anticipated the call and called it.

The play that flat out cost us this game was when we forced the TO with about 20 seconds and KJ inexplicably thinks he's MJ or DrJ and has about the same chance I'd have of making one there. I wish Bill had quick used the last TO, but KJ didn't give him much time to make that decision.

Kudos to WVU and their new coach. Big moment for them.

And I'm wondering what happened to this team who was on top of the world seemingly in November after beating Duke?

KU has been on the bad side of foul disparity all season and I haven’t felt like KU was jobbed. We shot a ton of floaters. Today Zeke got to the line and took it to the defenders. It isn’t unfair officiating.

Thinking foul disparity means bad officiating is silly.

People continue to roast Bill on Twitter/X for continuing to defend KJ and play him as much. He said the last play was drawn up for KJ (stupid). He defended KJ saying he just had a bad game and then threw Storr and Griffen under the bus. Hes gonna lose this team if he already hasn’t. If he has any coaching sense he’d start the two of them and actually let them play thru those mistakes like he does KJ, Juan and Hunt.

For the other team's trolls who are checking out this site - this is the greatest New Year's Eve in the history of the Universe.

Self described the showing as “as miserable (an) offensive team as I’ve seen play in this building in 22 years. That was horrid.”

Pretty much sums it up. So, coach, why couldn't you do anything to fix it????

I'm losing faith.

-- If this were baseball ... it's time to send Storr and Griffen to outright waivers. Would we miss them? Not tonight for sure. What purpose do they serve? They are stiff as boards and shit their pants every time they get in the game.

-- Honestly, how can Self defend KJ any more? Yes, he had a great game vs Duke. But I was so freaking happy when he took him out for a good long stretch today. I didn't keep track, but i assume we made our comeback with him on the bench.

-- The lone positive tonight: Zeke. Although he had his share of F ups. One in particular may have cost us the game (driving to the rim and dumping it off in mid layup instead of taking the shot).

-- We knew our defense was going to be bad this season. We knew our offense would have to carry us. Surprisingly the D has played well on occasion, but even more surprisingly, the offense has not played well on occasion.

-- How can we have ONE freaking guy trying to make shots??

-- I'm at the point where you say F it and play Passmore as a starter. Let him at least put some effort in on D. He's athletic enough to score a few every game. Can't be worse than Storr, right?

-- Where's Shaq?

-- This team is incongruous.

@rockchalkjayhawk Agree on all

I've been a KJ supporter for a long time , but now after the way things have played out for him this year, sad to say probably not as much. I like so many others love KJ , great kid , he will bust his ass, do dirty work, however I think he would be a great 6th man - -a 15-18 minute man NOT close to a 30-31 player, He just takes away too much for times such as that. Would be great he come in to give Hunter a few minutes break , Flory a break , back up at the five for those two. , maybe a small, small period at the four - -KJ can't play the four- -well successfully anyways-- he just can't

This has got me wondering /questioning on a couple of things. A couple of questions & not trying to be disrespectful to anyone KJ- -Staff but as we all have seen KJ play enough we know what KJ brings to the floor, My question is I just wonder what the staff, Coach included what did they see in KJ in the first place coming out of high school to offer him a Scholarship ?

I mean come on let's be serious- the poor kid doesn't have a shot---- - he doesn't or won't rebound - -he does play pretty decent defense- - he is a fairly good passer , BUT those things just does not play a big enough part to over come the other area's we need the guy for KJ to be starting and playing the minutes he plays- - Again what did they see coming out of High School?

My other question is you all know if we can see the things where KJ is lacking then , for dam sure the staff has to see these things. Question is , has there been a really serious effort to work with KJ one on one , another step in developing the player taking him and spending sufficient time , I'm talking long periods of time working on his shot , I'm talking like they should of dedicatetd someone to during an entire off season have someone working with him, be in the gym daily to develop a shot - -working on his technique , his form. He needs serious long reputation's on a shot form and technique.

Same thing can be said for his rebounding. the kid needs work on positioning and boxing out, KJ is built like a brick shithouse without a brick missing- -the guy has the ability to just use that body and rebounding positioning to average about 7.5 -- - 8 rebounds at least-- not 4. Again love KJ he tries , well in some he does , other times I just don't know , but if we want to do any damage KJ can JUST NOT be playing right at 30 minutes a game , he just can't. - -We need another scorer on the floor at that position We need someone that is going to force the opposition to respect that player and actually guard against his shot. With Kj they know KJ can flush the hell out of the ball , but they just sag off , clog the lane , and help defend Hunter and force KJ to if he is going to , they force him to make jumpers- Coach has to realize there has got to be a change. Hell put Rylan at the four, maybe not the best option but better then KJ OR put Passmore let him play a small four for a bit something-- -we just can't continue like this and expect to do any real damage

Didn’t enjoy the game, but the game thread meltdown is as expected, hilariously entertaining.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in West Virginia- a game finally:

-- If this were baseball ... it's time to send Storr and Griffen to outright waivers. Would we miss them? Not tonight for sure. What purpose do they serve? They are stiff as boards and shit their pants every time they get in the game.

Storr - 2nd team all big 10 averaging 17 a game

Griffen - third leading scorer at 11 ppg on a final 4 team last year

They now look like they’ve suddenly forgotten how to play basketball……this has been a theme with transfers so is it the transfer who’s the issue or the coach?

Answer is plain as day but homers don’t want to admit it

If the trex arm Morrii every rebounded like kj they’d be railroaded by coach for not hustling

Kj hasn’t rebounded for 4 years but man does he hustle is all we hear. He never hustles to the glass…..

What happen to the offense running pnr with Juan and kj? That’s completely disappeared and we cooked missery with it two years ago….

@dylans Oh ya I'm just enjoying the hell out of it, I mean come on. We have a great kid who busts his ass but does not belong on the floor for 30 minutes a game , in any way shape or form. geez - just ugly,- - - then we have a 7'2 guy with a three inch explosion who thinks he is Steph Curry draining three's, He did not show much if anything from about the middle of last yr , to now this year trying to knock down three's. PLANT YOUR ASS down in the block -- get your position - -demand the ball- -and take the fricken ball to the Hole. Kid is as slow as a sloth constantly getting his ass beat when he is extended out to the top of the key

Bill's response when asked about what he saw from AJ Sorr & Rylan Griffen after the WV game --- I didn't see much. Well hell no Coach you sure didn't see much when you had their ass on the bench for 3/4 of the game. Hard to see anything when it's like that unless you lean forward and stretch your neck and look down towards the end of the bench

Looking like 3 seasons of Bill coddling KJ and dajuan and three seasons of second round exits. Thankfully next season we'll have the top 5 pick echelon level of talent that we haven't seen in years and hopefully Bill remembers that spacing is important.

@kuballin10 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@rockchalkjayhawk said in West Virginia- a game finally:

-- If this were baseball ... it's time to send Storr and Griffen to outright waivers. Would we miss them? Not tonight for sure. What purpose do they serve? They are stiff as boards and shit their pants every time they get in the game.

Storr - 2nd team all big 10 averaging 17 a game

Griffen - third leading scorer at 11 ppg on a final 4 team last year

They now look like they’ve suddenly forgotten how to play basketball……this has been a theme with transfers so is it the transfer who’s the issue or the coach?

Answer is plain as day but homers don’t want to admit it

lol lol lol. All transfers to KU suck! (Omits the two leading scorers from the team.)

I’m not 100% sure why, but the meltdown on here is so humorous to me. People losing their shit over something completely unimportant (entertainment) just warms my heart to know you’re all in such a good place that this little unimportant stuff matters so much to ya. Happy days, happy new year!!!

@kjayhawks said in West Virginia- a game finally:

People continue to roast Bill on Twitter/X for continuing to defend KJ and play him as much. He said the last play was drawn up for KJ (stupid). He defended KJ saying he just had a bad game and then threw Storr and Griffen under the bus. Hes gonna lose this team if he already hasn’t. If he has any coaching sense he’d start the two of them and actually let them play thru those mistakes like he does KJ, Juan and Hunt.

He’s lost this group. And I can’t blame the transfers. You miss one defensive rotation or jumpshot and you’re pulled. KJ gets to go out there and put out a prime Matt Kleinman stat line and gets to play 25 minutes no matter what.

Upon further review…there were two bright spots last night. Zeke and Flory.

Bidunga was great. (I’m ignoring that last second freshman mistake)

Love his energy and enthusiasm.

I'm just not sure that KJ over Flory is a winner. We put KJ and Hunter and together and we get Hunter trying to scramble back from the top of the key to cover the easy layups. It's been a disaster and KJ and Flory together we get the same damn thing, And as opponents get so many easy shots they could get more. WVU could have been up by over 20 instead of 15 in the first half. Also we are last in the conference in giving up offensive rebounds. When we had Hunt and Flory together we owned the glass. Flory is a freak on defense. Did you watch him smother whomever was his man? He played belly button to belly button with athletic guards even better than KJ does. He showed us and them and the guards didn't know how to react to that 7'2" wingspan who is quicker than they are. We lost the game when he was pulled out and that's the truth. Hunter was able to play down low and get in position to rebound and when he gets that position he is in his element and he can be his bad ass self. We are wasting a guy who is a preseason first team AA selection. He gets the board and is as good as it gets making the outlet pass. Flory even showed a couple of nifty moves on offense. It looks like we are setting up Hunter for failure. KJ averages 9 pts on 55% shooting and Flory averages 6 pts on 82.9%. KJ averages 29.4 minutes per game to Flory's 12.6 minutes per game. Teams are making a joke of our defense and we are playing hard.

Juan on point, Zeke as the #2, a big guard ScorrGriftPassShak at the #3, LeFreak at the #4 and the Big Game Hunter.

We have to make 9 to 12 threes per game to be a top seed. Winning the 16 team conference is good but we are looking for bigger things aren't we?

Happy New Year my peeps.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Upon further review…there were two bright spots last night. Zeke and Flory.

Bidunga was great. (I’m ignoring that last second freshman mistake)

Love his energy and enthusiasm.

How Flory reacted to getting faked out was very telling. He pressed his lips together and walked away. No bull no poor me just acceptance.

I could question that call. Flory went straight up and the dude literally lunged under him from a long ass way away. An offensive foul move if I've ever seen one. Try that with Hunter or Charles Barkley and you could be on your way to the Medical Center. I wouldn't wish anything serious just a 48 hour observation and safely back to Morgantown which is known as a party town at the downtown strip. Sounds familiar somehow,

On our way to UCF and remembering we are two and three in our last five games. Need a win against a good offensive team.

@dylans

You are welcome! Ha.

@dylans 20-14 in the year of 2024 and a losing record in big 12 play but yeah keep thinking it is humorous

We are becoming Indiana right before your eyes but you won’t see it until it’s too late - suit yourself

Hunter hasn’t ever won anywhere he’s been and now I can see why because he can’t defend, block shots or board anything outside his 2 inch vert

Mayo turns it over but he boards better than our 4 man and has taken to it because he has a longer leash. Took Bill a few games to figure this out

If you are a transfer that comes here and doesn’t play D according to Bills trash standard (see our ratings for the last 7 years) than you get the quick hook and no leash

Offense wins in todays basketball and Bill’s methods on both sides of the ball suck

Dude wants to play 3 bigs…can’t be more disconnected from todays game and reality than that even if it was in jest…..he’s more apt to do that vs 4 guards around Bidunga

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Roll the core 3 and every dumb KU fan in his moms basement said “yeah that won’t work” - Bill - “I’m smarter than you I’ll prove it” - gonna result in 3 straight 2nd round losses and 5/7 years with multiple blowouts of 25-35 points in the ncaa tourney and more talk or “we uh uh gotta get more athletic and longer” #leveluphellnoleveldowndumb@$$

Bills wrong but he values crap that doesn’t translate to the highest level of basketball

There’s a reason why we get down and then start to fastbreak and go figure we come back

Bill wants no easy baskets yet gives up dunk after dunk as guards hammer hunter on the pick and roll. He’s going against his own principles but is too stubborn ane sawft to change

Same when we throw it inside and Hunter has the ball STICK and NO ONE CUTS OR MOVES!!! Trash 1980’s offense

Bill slows the game down and limits possessions which has been proven how you keep good teams in games as they want to limit possessions….common practice for any sport when you aren’t as talented and can’t score with another team.

Yesterday and the two road games are just proof we need to temper expectations way back from what we've become spoiled with under Self. This group has taken a step back even from last years struggles. The offense doesn't look like it can compete, guys don't make shots they should and the way we generate offense is predictable and very easy to scheme against.

We lost to a team at home that was down 2 key starters. Yikes

I'm not sure a team has been further away from the standard then this group looks.

Zeke and Flory were real bright spots. We don't run enough offense through Zeke and Flory showed that he really can impact the game when he's on. Most impressive was watching him defend on the perimeter at that size, he's got a chance to be special.

Ball screen defense was exposed in a bad way. I can't understand why they think hunter 30 feet from the basket is a good option. There's tons of film proving otherwise. Drop coverage seems like something to explore.

Yesterday was about as bad as I've ever seen at home win/lose. Not good. Maybe in February this group will figure it out.

I am actually for real beginning to think , these kids coming in from the portal , Rylan , AJ , not that long ago Joe Y-- - when they come in Bill just scares the crap out of them, shell shock, he has to loosen up some, These kids if they make a mistake they are out- - that's how Bill looking at it, gets these kids so focused and tight they are afraid and over, think so worried about making a mistake and getting yanked They can feel Coach glaring at them like a Vulture just waiting it seems, they play scared shitless. I think Bill needs to relax some, the kid makes a mistake , let him play through it, put it in the past and go on let him play through - He already knows he made the mistake, he is getting on himself already, but right now they make the mistake and it becomes for him WELP i'M DONE look over see Coach's face bright crimson red-- that destroys a kids self esteem confidence more then anything. Just let it go play that the mistake not become Two mistakes.

We need to loosen the reins and let these guys go - let them run. Anybody remember how Roy would have us running up , up tempo so much go - -go- -go. -You think I'm blowing smoke out my ass? - -Looked to me like in the Game Joe sure wasn't feeling that heat like when he was here.--- Drained the two three's he took, stole the ball-- relaxed. Didn't have to worry about the lightning hook if he made a mistake -I'm tellin you, you got to just let them play free

@SlimShaddy54 Glad you are coming on board

He always has the quick hook with certain players and not with others

And who he trusts and allows that longer leash to has always been the guys that lower the ceiling of the team each year

It’s been so bassackwards for decades it is finally catching up with him because ncaa allowed the super seniors ect

His decision making for who he grants trust and who he doesn’t has been proven poor

Lastly, you are 100% correct if you’ve played any competitive sport at any level. If you know that if you make 1 mistake you are put on the bench you play tentatively the entire time trying not to mess up

No one plays an entire game without making a mistake so it’s comically bad how he operates

Bill made his bed and now gets to lie in it with his pathetic coaching thought process

People see results but ignore the ncaa’s because “it’s luck”……we had luck help us once and we haven’t made our luck much because of his high low trash offense and horrible defensive principles that don’t work in 2024

If it weren’t for kalkebrenner getting hurt 2022 doesn’t happen same with bacot. Even Self has admitted 2022 “everything lined up for us”…

Honestly, I'm about to throw in the towel. Not just on KU, but all college sports. It's all out of control and nobody gives a crap. Someone asked when KU's next game was and I said "who cares"?

A recent championship helps me to maintain some perspective on this. I'm not nearly smart enough to know what the deal with Storr and Griffen is. Of course I saw a lot of AJ and he was a dynamic scorer for the Badgers. Would you take that if his defense still sucked? We needed more scoring yesterday to make up for the no one guard the lane defense we played.

Thanks for the perspective @dylans !!

@wissox AJ played 2 more mins than Joe Yesafu. Joe was a -1 scored 6 pts, 1 board and 1 steal. AJ -14, nothing. AJ 15:23 joe 13:25.

Didn't feel like AJ played that much. I remember a missed corner open 3 and then did absolutely nothing else which is why he sat I guess... 15 minutes and zero stats besides 2 missed shots. That's usually not going to work for any coach and certainly not for Self. Got the start and that's the response so yeah, not a good look. Got called out in the post-game so I'd expect Sunday to see a more engaged player?

A few streaks were broken and I guess they were bound to be at some point..

West Virginia was 0-11 in Allen coming in, we've certainly had some epic comebacks against them at home to keep it going and a first-year coach got them over the hump. How fitting.

33-year streak of winning the conference opener was broken. This one stings given how poorly the team played. Shocking this team didn't get up for a conference opener at home. December was a bad month for this team.

Wait for the next 4 with 3 of them on the road.

If we don’t win at ucf we will start conference play 1-4

I’m glad they lost. That uninspired effort deserves a L. Now learn from it and move on.

@dylans It isn’t uninspired……the team lead by 3 guys is going on another season of the exact same L’s

They just aren’t that good is the reality

I think they could be decent but the HOF coach isn’t maximizing his players and playing to their strengths let alone playing the right players to their potential….

@BeddieKU23 Maybe if you see him at all- - I think he is digging that deep dog house with Self going to be hard to get out

I think we have seen the days where Ku has run rough shod over the Big twelve is done- - those days are over

@SlimShaddy54 It’s something fans hold dear but truly is meaningless

People say hey it shows consistent winning but based on other big 12 teams not doing anything in the tourney 90% of the years it was a step up from what we hammer Gonzaga over dominating a weak conference

I’d trade the streak for 1-2 more titles without blinking an eye

Titles are all that matter

@kuballin10 i think we made a false dichotomy around that one. “Trading” the streak for titles was never on the table. We won the conference in 2008, 2012 and 2022.

TEMPO - What’s that? We don’t know because we aren’t aware of it. I was so optimistic for a couple early games when we ran… we literally got our shots up within about 5 seconds. Everyone was in full sprint. We even started games in a press. Use all those bodies!

STRENGTH vs WEAKNESS - Quit trying to force a style of play that clearly isn’t working. All those transfers had good numbers before arriving. Watch their past games and feed to their strengths. Create conditions they already know and make them feel comfortable.

JUAN - his strength is running an offense with structure, spacing, and timing. Handing him the ball and telling him to make magic doesn’t work.

KJ - he needs a male mentor to kick his ass. He doesn’t have a dad in his life… right? Someone has to make him into an alpha or he has ruined any professional ball ambitions he might have.

HUNTER - didn’t think we could find a big with worse feet than McCormick… but we did. He shouldn’t be allowed to step outside the paint on either side of the ball.

ZEKE - make him into a volume scorer. Set picks for him and run clear outs. Give him the ball and let him know none of his shots are bad shots. Get him up around 30 per game. Then start feeding others as he draws double teams.

KJ has a dad, his mom died from cancer last yr right before the maui tourney.

@kuballin10 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@dylans It isn’t uninspired……the team lead by 3 guys is going on another season of the exact same L’s

They just aren’t that good is the reality

I think they could be decent but the HOF coach isn’t maximizing his players and playing to their strengths let alone playing the right players to their potential….

Bless your heart.

@approxinfinity said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@kuballin10 i think we made a false dichotomy around that one. “Trading” the streak for titles was never on the table. We won the conference in 2008, 2012 and 2022.

The lose the conference to win a national championship was the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard. Total loser mentality - could not handle the stress of winning. I can’t believe that anyone as seemingly knowledgeable about the game as posters on here would die on that hill and yet they did.

@SlimShaddy54 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

I think we have seen the days where Ku has run rough shod over the Big twelve is done- - those days are over

The 12 year win streak wasn’t due to anything other than being adidas flagship program at a time other schools were less willing to pay their players than KU, Duke, and Kentucky were. More talent due to a bigger investment (cheating better) but the table has been leveled and the transfer portal makes it hard to retain all the talent.

When is the last time you can think of a team, not in a poor conference like Gonzaga, that won the conference more than 2 years in a row? It just doesn’t happen often and with the transfer market/player movement the way it is, it’s not likely to happen again.

Let’s calla spade a spade. The recruiting scene has changed - the NCAA witch hunt cooled recruiting and the rule change reduced KUs advantage.

@kuballin10 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@SlimShaddy54 It’s something fans hold dear but truly is meaningless

People say hey it shows consistent winning but based on other big 12 teams not doing anything in the tourney 90% of the years it was a step up from what we hammer Gonzaga over dominating a weak conference

I’d trade the streak for 1-2 more titles without blinking an eye

Titles are all that matter

If KU was undefeated at this moment none of us would have heard a pep from you. That matters 😂 😂 😂

https://m. ↗

@dylans bless your heart….

You are like a talking parrot that repeats the same thought over and over

For proof yet again and I’ll repeat myself….please reference my posts during the Duke game this year as they were all positive and @approxinfinity can attest

I talk about the team but I heavily weight big games or when they play bad

When we play some crappy big 12 school at home and roll or some non con average team and roll that doesn’t show me anything. Opponent strength matters….

@kuballin10 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@dylans bless your heart….

You are like a talking parrot that repeats the same thought over and over

Pot meet kettle

@Texas-Hawk-10 Haha as I was typing that I was thinking about what you’d say cause I’ve harped over and over about DeJuan 😂 - pot has met kettle for sure!

I can take a ribbing so keep it coming

Boards are to talk about the squad, bs back and forth but I never take it too seriously even when I’m ticked at Self

@kuballin10 problem with what you do is you kill any legitimate conversation because you derail just about every conversation you join by repeating your same points ad nauseum to anyone who has a different opinion than you. It's killed a lot of the legitimate conversations here because people are tired of you derailing every conversation back to your difference of opinions on Self's approach.

You like to repeat how much Self got lucky in 2022. Remy didn't do what he did in 2022 until after he finally bought into Self's plan and vision and that's when Self finally started trusting Remy on the floor amd giving him extended minutes. That's what everyone is waiting for with Griffen and Storr, particularly Storr. I just don't see it ever happening with Storr because I've said from day 1 of him committing that he was a bad fit at Kansas because he's a Temu version James Harden and that style of player doesn't work in Self's system.

@dylans said in West Virginia- a game finally:

"If KU was undefeated at this moment none of us would have heard a peep from [kuballin]."

I have accomplished that blissful omission of all those peeps by simply pressing that magical button @approx has graciously supplied us. More certain than better W/L!

It’s feeling pretty dark post Christmas this year. Hope we can find stuff to feel good and engaged about.

What are the odds of KJ starting against UCF? 100% 200%.
We have a 7'2" center who can operate but he is being triple or quadrupled guarded or trapping with Juan beyond the three point line. That's with KJ on the floor. We saw what happened with Flory in the game. Everything changed for the better. No second chance opportunities, No triple teams. No effective penetrations. It made it possible to release the Kraken. There is no other player like Flory there just isn't. KJ is foul prone and so in Hunt but Hunt isn't foul prone with Flory with him on the floor. AJ and Rylan are butterflies at this point but Bill has to change and park one of his beloved guys. The status quo is a losing painful to watch season. What are the odds Bill will change about this? Zero or negative prime of a gross?

@Zabudda Flory will start by end of year.

This is the way.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I just argue my point and people can’t argue back so they either name call, or block me.

The ad nauseam comment is I’d say due to the exact same style of playing for two years with the with minimal adjustments or minutes changes. The adjustments that have been made aren’t working and our hof coach is on the sidelines looking dumbfounded because he can’t figure it out.

How did Remy buy-in in your mind?

He didn’t play any different D than he did earlier in the season. What happened just like many years is the offense stalled because of the archaic positioning of players and Remy came in and showed he can get his shot off and create offense when Self’s fails. Very much Mahomes to Andy Reid….when the play breaks down Mahomes just overcomes it

Remy showed this in big 12 play and his offense not defense is what helped us and continued through March.

He had 1 game saving block but if you watch his defense he’s very jitterbug like - like coit or Yesufu. He was never some outstanding defender and even in the replay of those games he had missed assignments….

@approxinfinity For who? If you say KJ I’m going to laugh :)! Self will never I repeat never sit KJ and we all know it

@kuballin10 yep KJ. If only Bidunga had Tarik Black ahead of him on the depth chart…

@kuballin10 Remy bought into on offense and finally understood his role on the offensive side and where to be on the floor. There were quite a few times that season where Remy ruined end of half or end of game plays because he didn't understand what his role in those situations were and he would bring an extra defender with him into the set play and ruined what KU was trying to run for Ochai or Braun.

That's where AJ Storr is right now. If we talk about Self's offense being too complicated, then why have there been plenty of other newcomers that haven't had the same struggles that Griffen and Storr have had? Zeke Mayo is a newcomer just like Griffen and Storr so why hasn't he had the same struggles or leash as those two?

Two years ago, why did Gradey Dick or Kevin McCullar not have that same short leash that Yesufu, Udeh, or Ejiofor had?

It's not about Self being blindly loyal to players like you claim, it's about players understanding where they are supposed be on the floor together create the best opportunities possible for the offense and defense to work. We saw that with Bidunga on Tuesday in the second half until fouls dictated his substitution patterns and that Self left KJ on the bench. Flory just isn't consistent yet, but it's obvious the light is coming on for him.

Storr and Griffen aren't there yet, but Mayo is.

People keep talking about Storr's mind being messed up right now. Storr absolutely has the physical tools to play in the NBA, but he doesn't have the mentality to make the NBA yet. There's a reason he's in his 3rd year of college instead of the NBA despite his physical tools. Storr needed to be mentally broken to get to the next level and that's what we're seeing right now. Is AJ Storr patient enough and tough enough to allow Self to finish rebuilding AJ's mentality to get AJ where he wants to be?

Rylan Griffen is a different story. I believe many people here overhyped or overvalued Griffen's talent simply because he was a starter on a Final Four team. Reality is Griffen was the 4th scoring option, had the lowest PER of any of Alabama's rotation players, and was the second worst defender among their rotation players last season on a sub 100 ranked defense. Simply put, Rylan Griffen is a catch and shoot player who's pretty much useless when he's not making shots. Griffen was much more of a project player than what many here want to admit and we're seeing that play out now with his inconsistencies.

It is a bit shocking to me we are still tweaking with the starting lineup and playing 9-10 guys meaningful minutes during conference play.

Very not Bill Self.

On the bright side he hasn’t just gone to a 7 man rotation and is still pulling different strings

@Zabudda Had to laugh. Media ask Self about the three bigs and if there was a chance of seeing more of Flory with Hunter, Bill says ya that's a possibility , we just have to figure out a way to score -- I guess he meant with that combo , well here is a news flash Coach , Flory with Hunter sure the hell can't be any worse then KJ with Hunter with the scoring aspect of it.

I'd be willing too- -it will never hsppen BUT I'd be willing to bet the farm if you put Flory on the floor and had him play the amount of minutes KJ is playing right now I'd bet you anything that Flory would dam sure be putting up better scoring numbers then KJ-- 7 bet you again he would make KJ look silly in the amount of rebounds he would get over KJ if he was getting KJ's minutes. Flory wants every rebound if he can. Give that kid the rest of this year and like possibly 1/2 of next , he is going to be really good
j

@Texas-Hawk-10 I agree with most of your assessment but Remy is so hard to compare with anyone with not only how good he was but him being hurt and missing basically 2 months in the middle of the season. I compare coaching to parenting in a lot of ways. I believe it helped me parent being a HS assistant and coaching rec league for my nieces and nephews. I can’t imagine not getting mad at one of my kids if they played with a lighter and burned my house down. Then beating one kids ass red if they spilled a glass of milk.

Hunter, KJ and Juan never get pulled for mistakes no matter if it’s major or minor. I feel like Coit and Mayo don’t get pulled unless it’s major. Now AJ, Rylan and Flory they get pulled instantly regardless of the level of mistake. I’m fine with that being the case with Flory because he’s a freshman. The other two you can’t treat like freshman because they aren’t. They have played a lot of ball at the power 5 level. They should be allowed to screw up like everyone else seems to be.

The best chance this team has is to bench KJ and start AJ/Rylan. KJ is the same exact player he was 3 years ago he’s stats are looking like this will far and away be his worst year as a starter. I love KJ and think he’s a good dude but the best players should play. Spread the floor with Mayo, Rylan and AJ. Then you have room for big Hunt to operate. I have no problem with Self trying to break the colts a little bit but at some point we have who we have and this is our best line up.

Zeke plays with poise.... he assesses the situation and finds ways to help his team. This is not just because he knows spacing. AJ/Rylan are thinking too much, hence they play slow until they commit on a move. Zeke is completely untethered from thought. It is a joy watching him play, and a pity other guys can't pick up on his poise and apply it, too.

Self should ask Hunter and Flory the same question... "Are you willing to stay in the low block and fight it out for positioning, rebounds, and shot selection?" Hunter is more gifted at low post scoring, but if he doesn't apply himself it doesn't translate to the stat sheet. Flory brings energy. It's the energy many people thought KJ used to have. KJ was never much of an energy guy. People thought that because he has monster slams. Energy guys get rebounds, even if they are small guys (Zeke).

Hunter needs to always have a foot in the paint. He offers nothing when he's not there. Flory... just needs to play from half-court to under the basket... the guy has a motor, speed, and enthusiasm!

I would now bring KJ off the bench. See if we can get him inspired to fight for minutes.

We should run more scoring plays for our guards not named Harris. This will help Harris' esteem because he'll go back to doing what he knows... being the assist leader.

This team has bad body language right now. Self has to find a way to get these guys jacked up. He's never been that type of coach and I've been amazed how many wins he has without playing the role of cheerleader.

I wonder if there is some active dissent within the players. This is not a group of guys who seem like best friends, and friends with their coaches. There is ZERO team playing shining through.

My expectations for this team are quite low now. I see a middle-of-the-pack team in B12 standings. If a few things went wrong even worse, we could miss March Madness.

There are so many things wrong... but as Self said... all those things are magnified when you play with no energy. He has to take responsibility for this... it is part of the responsibilities of the coaches. Right now I'd like to trade 20% of Self for 20% of Shaka Smart.

Meanwhile... ISU is looking legit! Coach Ox seems to know how to make the transfer portal work for him.

AJ and Rylan are not playing good basketball and they are causing our struggles. They are not the only factors but are the biggest factors by far. I find that fact to be obvious. Is there anyone who disagrees?

@Jhawk69 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

AJ and Rylan are not playing good basketball and they are causing our struggles. They are not the only factors but are the biggest factors by far. I find that fact to be obvious. Is there anyone who disagrees?

I really think the three of KJ, AJ and Griffey are the main issues.

KJ has been a total non-threat offensively. The other two have not been very good. Flory and Coit need more run with how things are going.

The last game i coached last year was against an aau team with my 15 year old rec boys. We were down by 4 i think at half. Second half the aau guys shot about 5o% from three and there was nothing we could do. They practiced every day. We didnt. They shot 3s way way better than us because thats all they did.

Bidunga needs to be the only dude who cant shoot the 3 on the floor.

@Kcmatt7 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Jhawk69 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

AJ and Rylan are not playing good basketball and they are causing our struggles. They are not the only factors but are the biggest factors by far. I find that fact to be obvious. Is there anyone who disagrees?

I really think the three of KJ, AJ and Griffey are the main issues.

KJ has been a total non-threat offensively. The other two have not been very good. Flory and Coit need more run with how things are going.

Anybody recall if we have had these kind of discussions about players BEFORE the KJ/Harris era? I don't recall anything this stern. Maybe the McCormack days?

@Jhawk69 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

AJ and Rylan are not playing good basketball and they are causing our struggles. They are not the only factors but are the biggest factors by far. I find that fact to be obvious. Is there anyone who disagrees?

Yes as well as KJ @Kcmatt7 said and as I said above it’s because they are scared of getting yanked at every wrong move. They ain’t playing free minded in the slightest

@approxinfinity Tarik was a transfer in right? KJ is a 4 year player and what 3 year starter and in Self's mind he contributes as much to a game as nba player Ochai Ogbaji.......there is 0% chance actually negative % chance that KJ doesn't start.

The only way he doesn't start is if he's injured....

@Texas-Hawk-10 Remy had 1 mishap down in Orlando when he drug his man too close to Big Dave on the last second play when Bill was drawing it up for our 4th scoring option (way to go Bill - trying to outsmart them all when you have Ochai & Braun & Wilson)!

Yeah actually you are 100% wrong. Bill does have blind loyalty and does play favorites. Would you like proof?

Picture this - Marcus Morris (4 man) just played in a game where he got 2 points and 1 board and we lost. Bill would be all over Marcus having to be a better player for this team to reach its potential. He wouldn't throw other guys under the bus.

Instead of mentioning KJ's AWFUL performance - he drew the last play up for him no less and talks about starting 3 bigs. He doesn't once mention the 4th year player needing to contribute more especially a 4 man who flat out sucks at rebounding (never allowed on a Bill Self team - he was reluctant to go to 4 guards cause he is afraid of rebounding but Svi proved OFFENSE >>>> defense).

What's Self do - he slams AJ & Rylan. It is simple - when Juan and KJ fumble the ball for a turnover literally at the elbow he doesn't throw his hands up in disguist. He doesn't throw his papers on the ground EVER when D2, Hunter or KJ do ANYTHING negative.

Yet, the second AJ or Rylan do ANYTHING REMOTELY poor he is absolute throwing papers like a child in disgust as if HOW DARE THEY NOT PLAY A PERFECT GAME.

Perfect game you say Self----how the efff has KJ done you dumb@$$. Yeah the same KJ that DOMINATES A GAME LIKE OCHAI......geez he's so blind and you are as well if you can't see it.

He doesn't grant every guy the same encouragement or leash. Instead of encouraging AJ to go dominate he's messed him up (billy's own words) and instead of running plays for Rylan to hit 3's (elevator play) he doesn't call trash.

The State of the Program: 2019, 2021, 2023, 2024 and about to be 2025 all teams with ZERO final four chance. 2023, 2024, 2025 all have 2 players in common and 3 if we just go 2024 & 2025. These players Self values things that don't win.

You know what I haven't heard much of lately.....how much Juan and KJ are winners.....HUH WONDER WHY? Because people can literally judge talent and roster construction better than Bill. What he values won in 1990 and early 2000's consistently but not in today's game.

Instead of Koby Brea chucking 3's here he'd be in the doghouse cause he didn't rotate defensively well enough on ONE play MEANWHILE KJ, HUNT AND JUAN BLOW ASSIGNMENTS ALL GAME AND PLAY.

I've never seen a KU team get blown out and play so poorly on the road until the Lawson bro's and we are about to have 3 straight years of this trash #levelupnahleveldowndumb@$$ - #adjustorretire

@BShark2 knows........

@Kcmatt7 Yeah 2 new guys are the issue that play 10 minutes a game not the 3 guys who have played together going on 2 years while playing 30-35 mpg.....YOU NAILED IT!

@kjayhawks said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Jhawk69 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

AJ and Rylan are not playing good basketball and they are causing our struggles. They are not the only factors but are the biggest factors by far. I find that fact to be obvious. Is there anyone who disagrees?

Yes as well as KJ @Kcmatt7 said and as I said above it’s because they are scared of getting yanked at every wrong move. They ain’t playing free minded in the slightest

Genius and not difficult to see. I've harped on this though with Bill on many many freshman. He gives leashes to a few but he just absolutely hates some.

He's the literal parent that plays favoritism and unless you have 4 years here to fix it he won't view you any differently. You show up and within an few practices he either likes how you play or doesn't.

AJ was brought in as a volume scorer who couldn't defend well or rebound

Self tries to make he rebound and defend and in the process kills his aggression so now he's left with a guy who can't score anymore either....took the Alpha right outta him

I got connections with the Bama program and don't be surprised to see Rylan jump back there this offseason. He's tired of watching guys get to play through mistakes after getting blasted in the RD32 last year while he played big minutes and contributed in a final 4

@kuballin10

The conversation about Self and his quick hook has been around for years. Your posts on this makes me think more about specifics and impact. I’ve always questioned PT with various players. I think this year’s issues over the last couple weeks has taken an optimistic fan base to an angry, pessimistic group quickly. The real season has just started and few fans feel any sort of optimism, including myself. I feel like this is probably the least-prepared team I’ve experienced under Self while we are touted as the most-experienced team in America.

How do we have so many seasoned players unable to play basic offense or defense? Why does our 5-yr PG look lost? What exactly is KJ doing out there for 30+ mpg and hardly even gain a single stat on the stat sheet? Why isn’t HD setting up in the low post and averaging 20 ppg?

I am quickly confused. I see some of your points then I wonder how we won in 2022? I coached kids for probably 20 years and I played for 20. If I taught a kid to do something then asked him to do it in a game… he did it. This isn’t rocket science. My son is 11 and I guarantee you his team plays better set offense than this team.

Something stinks in Denmark. I don’t know what it is yet but I feel very negative news is coming our way soon.

Self gave an update on Clemence that didn't sound good going forward. Mentioned his injury is not good and hasn't done anything in weeks, can't practice.

Mention this because playing both Flory Hunt at the same time means we have no bigs to sub. Yikes

@rockchalkjayhawk Marcus Garrett, Land Lucas, Naadir Tharp come to mind…

@Kcmatt7 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@rockchalkjayhawk Marcus Garrett, Land Lucas, Naadir Tharp come to mind…

Brady Morningstar as well.

Lucas for me is the huge one.

@BShark said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Kcmatt7 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@rockchalkjayhawk Marcus Garrett, Land Lucas, Naadir Tharp come to mind…

Brady Morningstar as well.

Lucas for me is the huge one.

The Lucas bashing sounds on the same level as the KJ/Harris banter. Undeserved in the end?

I don’t recall Brady reaching this level, nor Garrett. Tharpe maybe. He just wasn’t very good?

@rockchalkjayhawk lucas’ senior year we had dwight coleby, freshman udoka and sophomore carlton bragg. The talent was there but bragg was a headcase, and udoka was not in great shape until junior year.

As far as I can tell, Bidunga is a better option than any of those. The only problem is he is not a 4.

@kuballin10 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@kjayhawks said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Jhawk69 said in West Virginia- a game finally:

AJ and Rylan are not playing good basketball and they are causing our struggles. They are not the only factors but are the biggest factors by far. I find that fact to be obvious. Is there anyone who disagrees?

Yes as well as KJ @Kcmatt7 said and as I said above it’s because they are scared of getting yanked at every wrong move. They ain’t playing free minded in the slightest

Genius and not difficult to see. I've harped on this though with Bill on many many freshman. He gives leashes to a few but he just absolutely hates some.

He's the literal parent that plays favoritism and unless you have 4 years here to fix it he won't view you any differently. You show up and within an few practices he either likes how you play or doesn't.

AJ was brought in as a volume scorer who couldn't defend well or rebound

Self tries to make he rebound and defend and in the process kills his aggression so now he's left with a guy who can't score anymore either....took the Alpha right outta him

I got connections with the Bama program and don't be surprised to see Rylan jump back there this offseason. He's tired of watching guys get to play through mistakes after getting blasted in the RD32 last year while he played big minutes and contributed in a final 4

AJ Storr came to KU to be developed into an NBA caliber player, summarized version of his words when he committed. Being a volume scorer as a career 43% shooter and 35% from 3 wasn't going to get him to the NBA.

Here's a scouting reports on Storr after last season and what he needed to do to become an NBA level player.

"The swing skill for Storr as an NBA prospect will be his ability to score efficiently. Many players around the country can put up points on a high number of shots, but in the NBA it’s about making each one count. Storr has been fairly up-and-down as a 3-point shooter in his career, so that perimeter efficiency will be something teams monitor. Furthermore, his shot selection has been poor at times, so continuing to develop as a decision maker will be key.

At 6-foot-7, Storr has the ability to play multiple positions. However, if he’s really going to take that next leap, his ability to make those around him better will be of extreme importance. In each of his first two college seasons, he produced less than an assist per game on average. On the defensive end, he has the positional size, athleticism and ability to be impactful, but will need to become a more consistent player on that end of the floor to emerge as a two-way threat."

I find it curious how a lot of the things you're criticizing Bill Self for in the skills he's attempting to develop in Storr line up pretty well with what NBA scouts believe AJ Storr needs to work on to get to the NBA.

I also believe that Storr now being at his 7th different team in the past 7 years says a lot about his mindset. I understand moving from a public HS to a private school basketball factory like Bishop Gorman. Why leave Gorman after a year to go to another top private school in Arizona? Why leave that school for IMG for a post-grad year? He didn't leave Gorman for better exposure because Gorman is one of those schools at the top of that food chain. When he gets to college, why did he only stay with Rick Pitino for one season? Anybody going to make a legitimate argument that Pitino isn't one of the top coaches in the sport?

His career trajectory screams one of two things to me. Either AJ Storr doesn't have the mentality toughness and desire to put in the work to get to the NBA, or he's got someone in his ear (dad, if stories are accurate) being way too involved as a parent to the detriment of AJ.

Rylan Griffen was overhyped from the moment he committed to Kansas. People were expecting him to step in and replace McCullar when Griffen has never been that style of player. Griffen was the 4th scoring option for Alabama last season and the 2nd worst defender on an already terrible defensive team.

He's a role player than many claimed would be more than a role player here. His main skill is shooting, but he hasn't been making shots recently and he doesn't add enough in other areas of the game yet to justify giving him the minutes that Coit is getting right now because those two guys largely fill the same roles and Coit is playing much better than Griffen right now.

@approxinfinity said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@rockchalkjayhawk lucas’ senior year we had dwight coleby, freshman udoka and sophomore carlton bragg. The talent was there but bragg was a headcase, and udoka was not in great shape until junior year.

As far as I can tell, Bidunga is a better option than any of those. The only problem is he is not a 4.

Doke got injured 11 games into his freshman year and had taken over the starting spot from Lucas prior to his injury, but not playing big minutes because he was still extremely raw on offense and couldn't play defense without fouling yet.

@Texas-Hawk-10 ah thats right.

Are you in the “Bidunga will start by years end” camp, if you had to guess?

Wasnt there a players only team meeting after which the consensus was that Lucas should start in 2015-2016? Did we put Mickelson on mothballs after something like that? A precedent to put a Hunter on the shelf.

@approxinfinity said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@Texas-Hawk-10 ah thats right.

Are you in the “Bidunga will start by years end” camp, if you had to guess?

I don't see Flory becoming a starter barring an injury to Hunter and I don't see him starting at the 4 under any circumstances.

Flory is a worse partner for KJ than Hunter is because Flory is a non-threat from 3 that doesn't need to be guarded out there like KJ. The reason the Flory-Hunter pairing works well is that Hunter is enough of a threat from 3 that he needs to be accounted for and that opens up the paint for Flory and KJ and when they've had the most success on offense.

Also, Flory fouls way too much still be think he can play starter level minutes yet. If he starts over KJ, he's going to be targeted and likely pick up 2 fouls pretty early most games and sit the rest of the half and not be available to gove Hunter a break.

@approxinfinity Lucas became the starter on that team because he was the best rebounder on that team which was the biggest hole on that roster. That team was by far the worst rebounding team I can remember.

@approxinfinity said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Wasnt there a players only team meeting after which the consensus was that Lucas should start in 2015-2016? Did we put Mickelson on mothballs after something like that? A precedent to put a Hunter on the shelf.

I don’t see Hunter being benched. He’s a walking talking double double! He could improve his effort level for sure, but the coaching staff needs to help him out and spread the floor to give him some room to post. If dumb asses like me can see that, surely Self can. Why he won’t is a mystery.

Would love to see him at least try four out for a spell more often.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in West Virginia- a game finally:

@approxinfinity said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Wasnt there a players only team meeting after which the consensus was that Lucas should start in 2015-2016? Did we put Mickelson on mothballs after something like that? A precedent to put a Hunter on the shelf.

I don’t see Hunter being benched. He’s a walking talking double double! He could improve his effort level for sure, but the coaching staff needs to help him out and spread the floor to give him some room to post. If dumb asses like me can see that, surely Self can. Why he won’t is a mystery.

Would love to see him at least try four out for a spell more often.

This is a flawed roster that has a major weakness somewhere no matter what line up combination Self puts out there. A 4 guard line up couldn't average 85 ppg, but that 4 guard line only has 1 good defender and would give up 95 ppg.

Self has always prioritized defense first and that hasn't changed this season. Notice how Dan Hurley's name hasn't been thrown around as the model much this season even though UConn still has one of the top offenses in the country, their defensive ratings are pure trash and why nobody has them as a legit title contender this season.

Foury Flory

@approxinfinity said in West Virginia- a game finally:

Foury Flory

I really hope we can get him NIL money and to stay. I think he’d be a lottery pick next season no question. A second round project like Furphy is.