Gone - Mason, Lucas, Josh, Bragg
??? - Svi
Staying - Doke, Mitch, Vick, Graham, Newman
Sad tweet from Frank: 🐦 View Tweet
You have nothing to apologize for Landen: 🐦 View Tweet
As soon as I see anything concrete on players I will post it here.
I would bet Bragg leaves, DG as well. We could have short bench again next year.
I Have this feeling Bragg will transfer out - - SVI will leave either for NBA possibility OR return back home and play ball at home. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Why would Newman leave? He wasn't good enough to after his freshman year and has done nothing to show NBA people those issues are fixed (scouts don't care what you look like in practice). Graham's not leaving. His play in the middle of the season killed those chances, and after the way he played last night, there's no way a projected late 2nd rounder at best should want his career to end that way. Svi's play all year killed his chances.
Bragg is definitely a question mark at this point, especially with the DNP last night and the reduction in minutes over the past few games and getting jumped by Coleby in the rotation.
@jayballer54 Gosh I hope Bragg comes back...........I think he can be a good player. IMO whatever happened off court really affected his play.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Just because Graham and Svi should stay does not necessarily mean they will.
I think Newman is staying, but there were swirling rumours/fake news that he would test the waters. He and his dad promised Self 1 year, which is why I put him in a different group than the bigger question marks.
@Hawk8086 Svi isn't graduating in May and with parents being educators, he's not leavimg without a degree unless he's a lottery pick and that's not happening.
Graham's draft stock has done nothing but plummet this year. He's a PG who played less and less of his position as the year went on. Graham needs next year running the show to be a 1st round guy.
@Hawk8086 Ya I'm sure that could of had some to do with it - -that may not be over for him either, I'm not saying one way or another time will tell, I hope he comes back - -BUT I am thinking he may in his mind think he wants out, go somewhere get a fresh start, he has potential, question is will we ever see it at KU? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Svi has said he is currently undecided when he was asked. That was very shortly after the game though.
@BShark I don't think he is going anywhere, big reason he came to KU was because the NBA pretty much told him he wasn't ready & because the way things turned out for him at his other school. - -Welp he didn't play this year so nothing has changed as far as the NBA goes. - -I fully expect him at KU next season. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
IMO only FM, LL and JJ are leaving.
Frank's tweet breaks my heart. He deserved a better ending than his friends all wetting their pants.
Bragg is gone. No PT, much like Greene last season. Cannot imagine him returning. There seems to be other priorities in his life ...
And remember last spring when we signed Newman? I suggested that his dad's word was not something we should totally bank on. I got a very large dose of anger on that one. But it is still in flux. I heard from a friend who is semi-connected, and his view was that it is "in play" that Newman may look to play professionally. Just that it is not cemented that he'll be here. We'll see. The likelihood of course is that he stays.
@Fightsongwriter Frank did deserve better. My all-time favorite Jayhawk. What a terrifically talented and humble player. THE PERFECT JAYHAWK.
I'm staying
Dwight still has a year.
Sam will help after 9 games
Me too! A lot of KU "fans" should go try being a Missouri fan.
@BeddieKU23 said:
Dwight still has a year.
Sam will help after 9 games
Admittedly I forgot about Coleby. Didn't list Cunliffe since I figured there is no way he could possibly leave given the circumstances.
Im still sad we lost. But much more so that I dont get to see FM in a KU jersey any more. That is heartbreaking and maybe a person shouldn't become that invested. But how can you not with a guy like Frank... There's been alot of kids I was sad to see go. But nothing like this. FM is my favorite all time. Of every kid I ever watched play here. He just is. A great guy and even better role model for others. The kind of story you love to hear about let alone watching unfold. If there's any justice in this world FM is player of the year
@cragarhawk sun didn't come up here ! I wanted the final 4 solely for frank!
@Crimsonorblue22 I'm selfish. I wanted it for me too. And for the program and all the other fans. And for the entire team and for Coach. But no question about it. I wanted it the most for Frank
Woops, sorry I missed the point of this thread.
Funny, I had a feeling people would post fake news about Newman right after the season ended. If Newman didn't have a reputation that would cause this type of rumors to be started in the first place we would have no reason for concern but yet there is the slightest doubt put out there. He'd be crucified by his coach if he did leave. Which I can't imagine would look good on him after all the talk of him coming here and his commitment to play here at least 1 season. I hope for Malik and for KU he's putting on a Jersey this fall
It seems clear to me that Bragg might be moving on somewhere else. Not getting into the Oregon game doesn't seem coincidental. That will really suck but maybe its best. I'll wait to see what happens to comment further..
@HighEliteMajor I remember the conflict over his dad's word. I think at the time I raised the possibility that changed circumstances could lead to Malik leaving without it meaning his dad was acting in bad faith when he said it.
It might depend purely on whether HCBS thinks Newman has a good chance to catch an NBA contract. Bill is pretty adamant that when a player is ready and wants to go, he should go and Bill won't hold him back. I doubt, though, that he could have made that much progress without playing.
I think Newman did the combine thing last year, didn't he? And I thought someone said you can't do it and retain eligibility 2 years in a row, so it seems that there aren't a lot of ways for Malik to explore NBA options other than through his coach.
An unrelated topic for everyone to chime in on: do you think Udoka should attend big man camp this summer? I believe Withey benefited from one, and others have, too, but would it be too much in light of the trip to Italy coming so soon after the wrist injury?
I know this was addressed to HEM but I wanted to chime in as well.
If Healthy, Udoka would be a prime candidate for camps especially if invited. I think the kid needs all the experience, coaching and tips he can get. He basically only got his feet wet and lost an entire season of progression. It sucks he wasn't able to learn with Lucas for the entire season on all the fundamental things Landen did well for this team. Going to be an important off-season for Doke
@BeddieKU23 Thanks--really to everyone but especially to those of you who seem to have a better knowledge of bb preparation than I do!
Udoka would be staying regardless. He is not old enough to be eligible for this year's draft. He was always going to be a two year player. It sucks that he got hurt, but he was coming back either way.
My guess
Jackson goes (DUH).
Graham and Svi stay (they might "declare" but won't hire an agent and will come back).
Bragg transfers to a nice mid-major.
What will be interesting to see with Doke is how the injury effects his plan to basically be a 2AD. That was his goal coming in as he knew his age prevented him from leaving regardless of his health or how well he performed as a freshman.
It would seem all the lost time from this year would put him further behind to reaching that 2AD goal. With the NBA going further away from the Doke's of the world it will be very interesting to see how the NBA is going to value him for what he is. An extremely raw player with a high ceiling and size you just can't teach, Does the NBA label him sort of like Diallo or do they take his age into consideration and figure he's 2-4 years of development away from becoming something.
I don't follow the NBA enough to know exactly where his value would be but I would figure a 7 footer who can't shoot and is extremely limited in his knowledge of the game would warrant a first round pick. Again I could find a slew of things GM's might be intrigued with but that would have been the thinking of where the NBA was 10-15 years ago instead of where it is today.
And part of me is selfishly holding out that 2 years won't be enough for him but I'm wondering will he be labeled a high "potential" prospect or an "raw prospect" with down the line potential..
@HighEliteMajor said:
Frank did deserve better. My all-time favorite Jayhawk.
Mine Too. I'm going to retire "Where there's a Wilt, there's a way"
@BeddieKU23 How many games didnhe play in this year? Can't be that many.
The reason I ask is say he does become a project and he stays for all 4 years could he get an extra year due to a medical hardship like Gonzagas Karnowski did afternolaying just 6 games last season????
Not say Dome will be a guy who is here that long but just a question.
11 games.
I suppose they could apply for a medical waiver, not sure the amount of games you can play in and get it.
I would tend to believe Doke won't be here 4 years, from what he said coming here to him being from another country, his goal is probably to get to the NBA and provide for his family. Maybe his mindset will change but Doke is probably smart enough to know his athleticism, size, and age will get him some hard looks from teams that are looking for a project to work with. And there was signs he was starting to improve rather quickly as well before the injury.. This off-season will tell a lot of how much he can improve
@BeddieKU23 No I didn't think he'd stay for his entirety but was just wondering.
Never know though. Maybe he loves the experience of campus life?
Oh who am I kidding.
Yeah there is no point in applying for the extra year if you don't plan to be around 5 years.
I am going to go all Bobby Knight, but we might of tried some shot fakes on bell. That and switching to 2 bigs with Bragg stretching the D could have worked wonders. Simple adjustments Were lacking from the coach I was bragging about for being the KOA (king of adjustments).
2 shot fakes getting bell in the air for 2 early fouls and we may not be crying in our beer. But then that may have been beyond Landens repotoir.
@Fightsongwriter You wouldn't have had to shot fake to try and draw fouls on Bell. Plant Bragg in the high post in the middle of the zone and force Bell off the basline to help on the weakside. Even with all his struggles this year that was something Bragg was still pretty good at and tended to have his most success playing in the high post.
@FarNrthJHwk said:
could he get an extra year due to a medical hardship like Gonzagas Karnowski did.....
Not eligible for a waiver. Here are the relevant portions of the criteria:
An athlete must not have participated in more than three contests or 30 percent of their season schedule (whichever is greater)..... Karnoski played in 5 for the Zags, so he easily qualified.
Unfortunately, Udoka played in 11 out of 35 games, or about 31.4%. If the NCAA doesn't do rounding, he might have been eligible for one if we had reached the championship (29.72972973%).
@BeddieKU23 For some reason I just have this feel that Doke will still be with us for two full more seasons, I feel that with his injury, it set his development back and he needs time to mature develop - I thought originally that he would stay for two years, now with the injury seeing as how he was not able to get that game time exposure/experience I just feel he will end up staying through his Junior year. - -That is unless he comes out this next season and just has a monsterous season offensively AND defensively, otherwise feel like he needs it to take the time to really develop improve ALL phases of his game. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@cragarhawk Agree. I mean I know ALL the players took the loss hard - - maybe I'm reading to much into it, but the vibe I got or that I felt seems to me that Frank more so then anyone would really take this rough. - -Frank was through and through, like you said a true role model will go down as one of my all time favorites, I know he loves his son and wants the best definitely will always be welcome in Jayhawk Nation. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Marsha would eat him alive.
Interesting post on the Phog about Graham. If true his mom wants him to stay and get his degree.
just checked out a couple of the NBA draft sites: - - Draft Net has Josh as the # 1 pick going to the Celtics - - -Frank as the # 48 going to Milwaukee, - - -NBA Draft Express has Josh as # 3, - - -Devonte # 50 going to the Nuggets, - - & Frank # 59 going to San Antonio. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
The NBA is going super small, but Doke isn't an immobile guy. He moves quite well. He's much more similar to a guy like DeAndre Jordan. He runs the floor well, can elevate and finish and can easily play as the lone big man because of his size, strength and shot blocking ability.
The NBA trend to go smaller helps a guy like Doke that is mobile, but it hurts the pro prospects of a guy like Landen that isn't as mobile and would have trouble switching on the PnR. 10 years ago, a guy like Landen would get a very long look in an NBA training camp because of his size and bball IQ, and would probably have a career somewhere. Now, because most NBA teams don't play two true bigs at the same time and Landen isn't a shotblocker, it's tough to play a big that can't either switch onto smaller guys on the PnR or play as the lone rim protector in a small lineup. But that change helps a guy like Doke.
I don't know that the injury changes that plan for Doke. He can block shots and can probably handle some switches. He doesn't need to be a scorer because he won't be in lineups as a stretch four. He will be an anchor 5 (similar to a guy like Jordan or Capela for the Rockets). The NBA would probably prefer that Doke not try and be a scorer because they don't have to create post touches for him if that's the case. Rebound, defend and dunk. That's what they want from a guy like Doke. He can already do all of those things.
@jayballer54 Have often thought this season that Frank would fit very well in Pops system.
He's a smart player. A team player and plays hard. All things Pops likes from his players.
Interesting train of thought on Doke. I don't think we have enough sample size to determine how mobile he would be defensively as far as translating to the NBA. We'll see how much he's learned next year and whether he can be effective on a P&R like Lucas was. He did make tremendous strides with his body and I'm sure Hudy will continue to sculpt him into a man-child. The DeAndre Jordan comp is a good one. Hopefully next season he'll get to show us what he can do healthy. I don't see Doke listed in any early 2018 Mock draft so that's potentially a good thing for KU.
I was basing on foot speed and lateral movement alone, not how he did as a defender in that situation. There aren't enough college PGs that will attack a big off a PnR for him to get meaningful reps in college in that type of situation defensively. Because of that, I don't know that we can really determine his defensive ability at the next level while he's still in college.
Not KU but Baylor's Al Freeman transferring. Graduate tranferring. Big Blow for Baylor.
@BeddieKU23 KU was in on him pretty hard, but I doubt he stays in the Big 12.
Didn't he start out at G-Town?
Baylor his first three years. KU was interested then as far as I can tell backed off.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
@BeddieKU23 KU was in on him pretty hard, but I doubt he stays in the Big 12.
Didn't he start out at G-Town?
Believe he was originally committed to ucla, ended at baylor. will be interesting to see where he lands
@Crimsonorblue22 that's what pisses me off most about that game. everybody let Frank down. If there was ever a college kid that deserved to go to a FF4 more than anyone else Frank is that kid. He's everything you want from a Jayhawk.
We need Bragg with all his potential and blunders.
Svi stays another year. He's got a great chance to improve his stock and if not, he's guaranteed European money.
I like what I'm hearing from Trevon Duvall. Everyone has him going to Dook, but KU has a great chance at this point with Mason leaving. I don't think DG makes too much difference. Either way, Duvall gets some huge minutes if he can pick up Self's system like Mason.
I'm giddy about Billy Preston too. I see him as a match-up nightmare at the 4. Doke will share minutes at the 5, with Bragg spelling Preston at the 4. We will be deeper inside next season. I hope Maxwell and Lightfoot really develop to provide Doke some rest at the 5. I like some of Maxwell's clips. He looks to bring some real solid minutes inside. I'm loving our size and will have Self-ish type bigs. Our perimeter is going to be as dangerous too.
Coleby back too?
3 days removed from the end of the season.. still not over FM being done... Not gonna be. Good to see his unanimous AP first team honor. Well deserved. All day I've been thinking.... Geez it's gonna have to be a tough ticket on the night they hang the MASON III number O in the rafters of the Phog. You can bet I will be there on that day
@cragarhawk you and me both! i wonder how fast they will retire him.
@truehawk93 maxwell left at semester
Coleby should be back. Anything can happen though. Our post situation is a mess with a lot of potential.
Don't get your hopes up about Duval. This isn't forecasting as a recruitment where KU was really in it and the media was focusing somewhere else before the recruit picked KU (Like Jackson, Wiggins). The smoke for Duke from all accounts is accurate.
@HawkInMizery I seem to think Coach has a 5 year limitation on that. Idk if that's accurate. Maybe someone else can answer that for sure
@cragarhawk I think Self's latest comments said that they have not acted as fast as they should have for some retirements, and that nothing is set in stone. Also, he said we will see a couple more soon, prob next year. I assume these will be Sherron and Cole.
If Mason ends up the consensus POY, any normal delay times might go out the window since we have never had one.
A thought: If Self decides to retire any time in the next 5, I suspect the retirement of FM's jersey will be before HCBS goes, or in connection with it.
@HawkInMizery said:
i wonder how fast they will retire him.
If they had his jersey hanging up there ...........tomorrow it would not be soon enough. And somebody needs to get to work on a statue - put him right out there next to Phog Allen with a plaque.
"Welcome to the Mecca of College Basketball. Stay four years and you might have a jersey hanging in the rafters and a statue on the lawn too".
Rumours swirling. User made a VIP post on 247. They said to keep it there so I will respect their wishes. Check out the thread if you have VIP though.
Just maybe reporting early what I think most people think is going down anyway.
The 2nd part, not so sure its a 1 for 1 deal. But that would definitely make said recruit more attractive to coming here
Hmmm I have no idea
a hint, its about a player leaving the program as well as saying another will be joining
@BeddieKU23 scares me that ones for sure and the other might not be! Not ready for dg to go
@Crimsonorblue22 It could be Bragg leaving.
If this person is right kudos to her/him for having that information.
Self has not met with players and won't until he gets back from Final 4.
But I don't think one could know both situations from what is currently known about each
Yeah seems interesting that this could already be lined up so quickly.
Could have been lined up before the tournament even started. Self has been on the recruiting trail within the last few weeks.
We need the first-year Bragg... not the second-year Bragg. I've never seen a guy move backwards in development like he has.
@drgnslayr Nadiir Tharpe? Brannen Greene? I never decided if they went forward or backward...
@BeddieKU23 of the offers I saw, I liked our chances.
Can't beat Bama for a PG unfortunately.
Bill Self can also now go into every PG recruits house and tell them that he took two unranked Point Guards committed to App State and Towson and turned them into the best guards in the country and a POY ALL American PG. Sure hope that hits home with some guys moving forward.
We are always going to faced with the issue of kids who want immediate playing time and that will always play a role.
Here are my thought on player status...
Josh, Frank and Landen are gone...duh...
Svi comes back to finish his degree and improve his draft status.
Devonte is back after the Oregon game knocked him way down second round to not-drafted.
Vick will be back and probably start or at least get considerable playing time.
Bragg will use the off-season to sync his mind and new body and with good coaching he might yet be the player we all thought he could be.
Garret will be a very pleasant surprise.
Preston will contribute greatly if he qualifies to play at all. 50-50 chance at this point
Doke will progress nicely and be in beats mode buy Conference play.
Lightfoot will continue to progress and we will see flashes of what he will do in his junior and senior years.
I see Newman as a 50-50 chance of leaving.
Cunlife will be a good contributor but not a game changer.
Juiston, if he comes to KU ,will be a Jamari type of player. He has dominated in JuCo but Division I is a while different game.
Coleby will see increased pay time but not starter minutes.
As usual, Coach Self will gete a surprise recruit in the off-season.
KU will win Conference Title #14.
Interesting news about players with whom we are somewhat familiar.
Lonzo Ball, following on his father's footsteps and family tradition stated that he is better than Markelle Fultz; way to to impress NBA GMs...negatively, of course.
Michael Porter Jr., indicated that he wants to wear the number he had in HS, the problem is that Terrence Phillips, who stared for MU for 2 years, currently wears the same number. Porter indicated they should play one-on-one for the number... ↗ what a way to start your career by destroying team chemistry. I see MU being like Washington was this season, a team with a superstar but still a conference bottom feeder.
@JayHawkFanToo Bragg is not a lock to be back. Newman will play at Kansas next season. He wasn't good enough to go to the NBA after his freshman year and he's done nothing to prove those doubts wrong. Scouts and GM's don't care about how a player looks in practice, they care about game film and there is no game film of Newman that shows he's fixed any of his problems.
Keep in mind that Malik has been practicing all season long against the best guard pair ion college basketball and it is not unfeasible that his play has improved considerably. The combine would be the place where NBA team properly evaluate him.
Bragg's best chance to make it to the League is to shine at KU. If he is not good enough to earn playing time at KU, being the best player in a mid major program will not help much, particularly when he would have to sit one year. If he is not NBA material playing at KU, playing for mid-major will not change this.
@Hawk8086 said:
@jayballer54 Gosh I hope Bragg comes back...........I think he can be a good player. IMO whatever happened off court really affected his play.
Plus I think him playing the 5 is out of position for his skill set and mindset. With others holding down that spot next year I think we'd see different results.
@Crimsonorblue22 I didn't know that about Maxwell. Wow...that was the shortest transfer ever.
@BeddieKU23 I will wait for the fat lady to sing. I may not like the song, but until she sings...
@JayHawkFanToo Bragg leaving KU would not be his choice. It would be a Brannen Greene/Connor Frankamp/Naadir Tharpe type deal where he's publicly allowed to leave on his own, but he's really getting kicked off the team. Bragg not playing at all against Oregon when his skill set was exactly what KU needed should be sending out huge warning signs that Bragg may not be around KU next year.
Newman was practicing against a pair of very good guards, that doesn't change that there's still no game film on him to show he's fixed the deficiencies in his game and there's no way he gets a combine invite. Graham is the only on the fence player who will likely get an invite. The NBA invited only 61 players last year and will probably be close to the same number and Newman won't be among those players because he didn't play this past season.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I was just thinking through Newman's situation. I can't help to think practicing and cutting his teeth with FM was tremendous. If you add in DG, it's really a great benefit to Newman. Something tells me after his initial pick and transfer, he has a little something for KU. He sees this as a great opportunity.
I think it's possible Malik Newman could aspire to following Frank's example on the court. Let's hope if we miss on any other guards, that Newman steps up and gives as much as Frank "the tank" Mason. Mason is an all out stud. It's time for Newman to put up or shut-up.
Video of a Chicago recruit
@nuleafjhawk I completely agree!!!! :100:
We might be waiting a while too. Don't expect Duval to decide before the underclassmen draft deadline. I expect this will go into May.
Yeah Newman's practice year has been a big benefit to him, Coach talked about him a few weeks ago. They sound very optimistic about his role next season.
@drgnslayr IMO, Bragg did not seem to handle the added weight very well. He seemed to lose quickness and hop. This is not meant to be a shot at Hudy, her successes are many.
It could be just the off court issues too!
I would love to see him bounce back in a big way.
@BeddieKU23 When is that deadline?
April 23rd is the underclassmen deadline
@BeddieKU23 OK thanks. Will be a long spring with lots of anticipation.
Definitely, if Graham enters the draft its going to be even more tense
...and they have 10 days after the NBA Combine, which is is set for May 11–15 in Chicago, to withdraw, so May 25 will mark this year’s deadline; until then, we will not know for sure. I would expect Devonte, Svi and maybe Malik to give it a try, provided they are invited.
@JayHawkFanToo said:
maybe Malik to give it a try, provided they are invited....
Earlier I posted that Malik might not be able to do it because he has done it before. But apparently it was changed last year so kids now can enter the draft multiple times and attend combines again.
@BeddieKU23 He was saying last night at the game that he would like to make his decision in April. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@BShark Well, watching this , well I'm not sure you could actually say he LED them to the win. - -From what it showed us, ya he played OK. - -Seem on more then one occasion where he just kind of stuck a hand out against an opposing player driving to the basket - -made a couple of shots, looked like his team was getting it taken to them multiple times - -BUT ya did ok , looks like he hit a couple of three's , got faked completely out of his strap on one drive. - -On a side note you see the number he is wearing? - - -ZERO - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Newman will play a year for KU. He promised Self.
Yeah kind of an odd highlight video. Markese is good though, probably gonna be a McDAA and top 25 before it's all said and done. Esp if he gets taller.
I don't understand why Trevon is pausing IF he is all Dook and they are pulling away in the "crystal ball," then just commit already. However, unlike the other highly touted pg in the nation we missed, think Trevon has a set of different circumstances. I think if the kid is all Dook, he would've committed already. Something is causing him to pause and don't think he's 100% sold on Dook. He may go to Dook at this point, but hopefully KU is giving him fits. I also think Billy Preston may be our best recruiter at this point too.
I'm sure if everything happens the way he's talking maybe he decides in April. I wouldn't hold my breathe for Duval, he's an expert at what to say. Nike wants him at Duke, UA wants him to skip College so that UA doesn't have competition for him after his 1 year. This is much more then just Colleges trying to convince him to go to school
@truehawk93 I read somewhere..........maybe posted here........that he said, among other things, he was waiting to see what DG does......some interpreted that it might be to play with DG.......I think one of the things........maybe many things.......he is considering is that if DG leaves...........Trevon would be the man........doesn't totally make sense given Self's system, but I could see where a kid could look at us as having a full backcourt if everyone returns.
I think you interpreted that correctly, he's most interested in what happens at Duke, then Kansas and Arizona as far as roster movements go.
Duke has told him he can have the keys and I'm sure that both KU & Zona have had similar pitches. The problem for KU & Zona is they currently have PG's so predictably his answer is going to be "waiting to see what Devonte Graham or a Kobi Simmons does at Arizona.
@BeddieKU23 said:
I'm sure if everything happens the way he's talking maybe he decides in April. I wouldn't hold my breathe for Duval, he's an expert at what to say. Nike wants him at Duke, UA wants him to skip College so that UA doesn't have competition for him after his 1 year. This is much more then just Colleges trying to convince him to go to school
How are conversations like this happening? How does this not affect amateur status?
@truehawk93 said:
think if the kid is all Dook, he would’ve committed already.
Maybe he wants to wait until after the final 4 so he can have the media attention all to himself.
@BeddieKU23 said:
The problem for KU & Zona is they currently have PG's so predictably his answer is going to be "waiting to see what Devonte Graham or a Kobi Simmons does at Arizona.
Frank just won national player of the year next to Devonte. I dont see how Devonte's status affects a point guard. Devonte plays a role like Chalmers did and is better as the secondary ball handler.
@BeddieKU23 very true, I hear what your saying. I will say that during his interview at the McDonalds the question was brought up about the whol over sea's scenario - -he seemed pretty adamant saying NO he was not saying he had things to take care of here that over sea's was not an option I dunno, but sounded pretty convincing that was not part of the equation. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yes Duval wants to play in College. He's also smart enough to deflect the question so that the schools recruiting him don't start asking questions. Slater of 247 is in the know about this situation and he knows for a fact that UA has tried to convince Duval to skip College and take a deal now. They are scared that if he ends up at Duke (a premier Nike school) that this could affect their future endorsement deal with him. Crazy times!
@BeddieKU23 Ya I hear ya, You know for me anyways these shoe company getting this involved which in turn has an effect on how a recruitment may turn out. - - I think there has gotten to be so many factors anymore with the recruitments of these guys Seems to many outside factors playing into recruitment anymore - -it's all about money in one sort or another. - 100% correct Totally Crazy times. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@nuleafjhawk said:
If they had his jersey hanging up there …tomorrow it would not be soon enough. And somebody needs to get to work on a statue - put him right out there next to Phog Allen with a plaque.
"Welcome to the Mecca of College Basketball. Stay four years and you might have a jersey hanging in the rafters and a statue on the lawn too".
He should get his jersey in the rafters, get a statue and we should call the playing surface "#BIFM & Son Court"
Definitely. The top kids have too much behind the scenes around them and it starts at a young age. We have landed top kids in the past where shoe affiliation didn't matter like Wiggins & Jackson but those kids were just different. They also had parents that were involved and kept a tight ship on things. It's the families that invite the "other stuff" like Duval and his father that bring on a whole new ballgame when it comes to recruiting. Too many kids have handlers as well and most of them are not involved for the right reasons other then personal gain.
@BeddieKU23 said:
Too many kids have handlers as well and most of them are not involved for the right reasons other then personal gain.
Yeah I read a comment the other day from Slater about Brandon McCoy and I was suddenly a lot more okay with him losing interest in KU...
Summary for people here that don't want to go find it: McCoy has a handler that is very involved. Said handler has basically made it clear that McCoy (a very raw offensive player) will be OAD. And no doubt money will be required to secure his services.
I think DG stays, he's very close to Newman.
@kjayhawks didnt his mom say he was going to Italy? He should stay and be a part of a potentially dynamite team.
@HawkChamp I don't know what his mom has said. I follow him on Snapchat and he is with Newman all the time.
@HawkChamp Yes she did, for what it's worth.
Will post in here since its not official or anything.
One of Svi's best friends is saying he'll be back next year. Who knows how true but that would be a great thing
@BeddieKU23 I'd think they would at least go check it out and not hire an agent. No harm.
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 I'd think they would at least go check it out and not hire an agent. No harm.
The thing about "checking it out" is that if you are told you are ready, you have to go - otherwise they think you (and your college coach) are jobbing the system.
If you have no intention of going pro, you can't go to the combine just for the experience: they will hold it against you.
"Would you like to go the prom with me?"
"All right"
"Well you know, I was just wondering. Actually I'm out of town that weekend. No hard feelings?" Sure...
I hope Svi returns. He made a huge leap this last year, and he is still so young. I think we can count on him making another big leap this year, too.
@ParisHawk If players don’t sign with an agent after declaring for the NBA Draft, they have the opportunity to return to school if they aren’t satisfied with their draft status.
@Crimsonorblue22 Yes of course. What does that have to do with my post?
My point was if you go to the combine you have to be open to going pro. You can't just go as a tourist. Was that not clear?
@ParisHawk guess not. Did you read kusports?
@ParisHawk If you aren't satisfied with a rating of "likely second round" no one is going to hold it against someone who goes back to school to improve their position. Teams would rather have those guys come back the next year as more skilled players who get "1st round probable" ratings instead of staying in it and being undrafted. That is one reason they set up the combine and changed it last year so there is no limit to how many you can be invited to.
@kjayhawks said:
I think DG stays, he's very close to Newman.
I saw Newman and Graham out shopping together. I als so Vick at the same mall. I wonder if they were all just trying to keep their minds off the tourney.
@mayjay I agree with what your saying , and I am now leaning more to Devonte coming back, earlier I just thought he was gone, really didn't have anything to base my thoughts on . now those feelings telling more then likely he comes back. I don't think it has anything to do with being close to Newman , a lot of players can have a close bond with other players, but when it comes to your future you do what's best for you - - not your friend.
Having said that I will be glad if Devonte comes back , no problem with any of the guys going to the combine and see where their at. -The one thing I feel differently about is I've thought this most of the year and I STILL feel this way, -- I just really think that Devonte quite possibly has hit his ceiling - -I really do not think he is going to improve his stock that much, he is at where he will probably still be in the draft NEXT year. - - This is not a knock on Devonte I really like him but I just don't think he will make a 1st round draft - - I just don't. Now I've seen where some people said he was even listed anywhere in the projected draft - - and I've seen where he was middle of 2nd round. - -I'm just not seeing a guy going from where he is nowhere to be found on a projected draft , to middle of the 2nd round , to a 1st round draft pick.
I think at the very best Devonte would still be a 2nd round pick somewhere- -but 1st round pick , I'm just not seeing it, that's why I say I think he has hit his ceiling, and that's why I've said during the year as far as declaring then if that's what he wanted to do might as well do it now, not getting much higher. Bottom line I hope he does come back, let the marbles roll , see what happens. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@JayHawkFanToo said:
I think @mayjay post makes sense, don't you think?
Of course. Again, I think some are misreading my original thought.
I said "if you are told you are ready, you have to go- otherwise they think you (and your college coach) are jobbing the system."
Being told "second round" is not "you are ready".
And when I said "you have to go", read the "otherwise". They don't "have to go" because those are the rules, but to avoid getting a bad rep.
Let me say it another way: going to the combine is not "testing the waters"; going to the combine is not "checking it out". Rather, going to the combine is applying for a job as an NBA player.
Don't apply if you don't want the job.
How does that not make sense?
I really want him to come back and continue to become an aggressive player. We saw some pretty good strides in his ability to get to the hoop this past season.
I look at the development of Justin Jackson of UNC and I see a lot of similarities in how Svi can take the next step. Jackson came to College with a lot of hype and a deadly midrange/close the basket game. He put in a ton of work to become a perimeter shooter, a true dual threat player.
Svi came to College known as a shooter and has started to take steps towards becoming a dual threat player. I can only imagine he'd be even better next season.
@ParisHawk Try Googling "nba combine test the waters"
Your notion that the phrase is not properly descriptive of the combine process seems to have been lost on all these players who are announcing they want to, gasp, "test the waters." And the articles announcing the combine changes last year all seem to use that phrase for what it allows players not hiring agents to do.
But what do players using the system, or writers who deal with ncaa and nba personnel involved in managing it, know?
I also think there have been many nba players who were second round draft picks who would be shocked to find out that their draft status by no means would suggest that they were "ready" for the careers they enjoyed or are still enjoying.
Bottom line, as expressed in the post by @Crimsonorblue22 to which you have taken such exception, I also hope a few of our players test the waters if the nba invites them to. It will give them valuable information about their games and their propects for pro careers. If they decide to go pro, good for them. If they don't, it will give them a chance to train and practice with specific goals to close gaps invtheir skills.
Vegas doesn't see it as a rebuilding year either.
Vegas- Default Duke/Kentucky as title favorites 364 days away, bound to be right some year
Makes sense for taking bets. I'm sure there are Duke/UK fans that bet on their team every year.
@dylans Those are some good odds for Florida. I would consider them at 20-1. They're consistently making very deep runs, have multiple Final Four's in their recent history, they don't lose a lot of talent, and they have a pretty good young coach.
Losing Hill is not even a big deal for Florida because they have Chiozza to fill in who is pretty good himself at PG.
They're going to be a really good team next year and I hope that's who we get in the Big 12/SEC challenge since we know it won't be Kentucky.
@mayjay One last time, I defend the idea that instead of disagreeing we are not talking about the same thing.
I never said a prospective second round pick was wrong to declare anyway. Anyone who can get a combine invite and afterwards decides to go pro goes with my best wishes.
I merely said that if a player has no intention of going pro then he shouldn't go to the combine. The risk is that he would be highly rated and the refusal to stay in the draft would be held against him and his coach. I don't see any reply that addresses this point.
Do you really think the NBA personnel at the combine would be happy to hear that a player was just there for the experience and had no intention of going pro no matter what?
@ParisHawk Do you think teams that want a guy one year will decide not to take the same guy the next, or a teammate, because of a petty feeling of having been stood up?
In any event, the original dispute was over "testing the waters" because you said no one declaring should see it that way, but instead only declare if they intend to go pro if they are told they are ready. I leave it to you to convince the guys saying that how much they are damaging their future prospects. I think your real dispute here is with the rule change that gives early declarants that chance to back out--regardless of how many team want them.
The risk is that he would be highly rated and the refusal to stay in the draft would be held against him and his coach. I don’t see any reply that addresses this point.
I think this is where we disagree. Players go to the combine to see if they ARE highly rated so they can join the draft. If they are highly rated I would think they would go on the draft and not back to school. They would go back to school only if they ARE NOT highly rated...wouldn't you agree?
Maybe it depends on what highly rated means. Kids have been projected as 20 to 25 and not drafted until mid-2nd round. Or in the teens but falling into late first/early 2nd
If a kid rates at the mid-twenties, he would get a guaranteed contract if drafted that high. Clearly, "ready." But if he projects as closer to lottery level the next year if he develops, say, a better driving ability, or improves his 3 pt shot both accuracy and range, he might well decide to wait and try to get a more certain first round draft status, and avoid the risk of falling to second round with no guaranteed contract.
@ParisHawk How "ready" does someone have to be before you think he has no option to go back to school? No one gets promised anything at the combine; at best, they are provided a critique of a range into which they might fall.
I agree with you that anyone projecting in the first half of round one should not opt out of the draft. Beyond that, I think it is an individual decision based on the player's own risk/reward assessment, plus ego, plus financial need. And I think NBA GMs will respect any decision made.
Maybe our issue stems from part of your scenario that I thought was facetious but perhaps underlies your misgivings. I think no player will go and say, "Hey, just screwing around here--don't intend to really go pro. So whaddya think?" I think they all declare planning on trying their damnedest to impress if they get invited, and to go pro if they get monster feedback. They all want that Willie Wonka ticket, but some know it isn't yet very likely yet, so they describe it as testing the waters.
@mayjay said:
@ParisHawk Do you think teams that want a guy one year will decide not to take the same guy the next, or a teammate, because of a petty feeling of having been stood up?
In any event, the original dispute was over "testing the waters" because you said no one declaring should see it that way, but instead only declare if they intend to go pro if they are told they are ready. I leave it to you to convince the guys saying that how much they are damaging their future prospects. I think your real dispute here is with the rule change that gives early declarants that chance to back out--regardless of how many team want them.
I don't dispute the rule change. Players have that new freedom and I don't want to limit it, but I think like all freedoms it should be exercised reasonably.
The first time after the rule change, Calipari told all his players to declare for the draft. They were indeed "testing the waters". Selden after his sophomore year said he knew he was coming back so he didn't declare. I think Selden was wiser and more respectful of the process.
@mayjay said:
Maybe our issue stems from part of your scenario that I thought was facetious but perhaps underlies your misgivings. I think no player will go and say, “Hey, just screwing around here–don’t intend to really go pro. So whaddya think?” I think they all declare planning on trying their damnedest to impress if they get invited, and to go pro if they get monster feedback. They all want that Willie Wonka ticket, but some know it isn’t yet very likely yet, so they describe it as testing the waters.
Right. It wasn't facetious.
I understand better why my very minor remark sparked these reactions.
I would rather my remark be dismissed than misinterpreted. So dismiss it.
Just checked a couple of the projected latest draft boards of course - - of NBA Draft Net they have Josh as the # 1 pick going to the Celtics. -- - They have Frank as the # 53 pick going to the Celtics.
NBA Draft Express has: - - -Josh as the # 3 pick going to the Lakers- - -They have Frank as the # 59 pick going to the Spurs, - - AND they have Devonte as the # 50 pick going to the Nuggets, I dunno we shall see. - -One thing is SVI not listed in either projected draft - -would be really good if he came back - -But could be to he returns over sea's and plays - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Was listening to an interview of my local WIBW sports talk show, they were interviewing CJ Moore from bleacher report. Was talking about Bragg, and he said he fully looks for Bragg to come back for his JR year.
He said normally rumors fly - -people talk right around final four time, or at the final four you will hear the rumors about transfers or firings this and that and he said the thin g is he has heard absolutely NOTHING about Bragg transferring, saying there was nothing about a possible transfer, and again he said usually if that's happening or talking about happening your gonna hear something.
He said he thinks because of the way things played out he thinks that it's just goin to serve as a HUGE motivational factor for Carlton next year, saying that KU for sure seen enough in his Freshman year, they know the potential is there. Soo Maybe Ya Bragg DOES return - -I for one hope he does I still believe in him, I think he has things where he could really help out. Put this season behind him and progress hell he might bust his butt this summer to improve things for himself - -for the team. I think he has what it takes, I think the kid has a huge heart, awesome personality, I just think he got side tracked this last year and it snow balled on him - -Everyone deserves a 2nd chance I for one am ready to give that to him for sure. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I still think and hope he stays.
Gonna hire an agent?
I wish I could respond to y'all tweets the way I really wanted to 😩🤦🏾♂️😂
D Graham
cryptic, it could mean anything.
If he was going why couldn't he respond the way he wanted to?
is he indicating he is going to end up doing what he didn't want to do?
@Crimsonorblue22 my guess is even he doesn't know for sure
Could be waiting for the Banquet to say anything. I also read that KU puts out a video for its underclassmen going pro now instead of a presser?
OK , OK , I know - -I', saying this with tongue in cheek , but just saying as I read another well actually more then one - -but there was posts saying/asking WHY hasn't Josh come out and announced that he was declaring yet? - - -What is he waiting on? lol. Now I know guys - -I'm not THAT stupid, but yet I mean it does kind of bring up a point - -WHY hasn't he?
I mean and has been noted he was quoted after the Oregon game that his Mom and him hadn't decided about that yet. - -To me You would think it would be a no brainer. - - Gonna be a lottery pick - -probably top 3, no place to go already at the top. - -Why would he even consider even the remotest of coming back - risk possible serious injury jepordizing his NBA career?
My thinking is that maybe, his is waiting to announce at the banquet Tuesday night. - -BUT yet, makes the mind wonder - -even if it is just a smidge, - -that tinsy little bit - -MAN if for some insane reason he announced he was returning for his Soph yr? - -What shock waves would that send across the sports Nation, lol - - - --ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY