🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Bagley is reclassifying and Whitman is transferring. Coincidence?

Yes

@Kcmatt7 ok, nevermind then.

@SkinnyKansasDude Probably, Whitman wasn't going to start and was probably behind Lightfoot at this point as well. If he was the 4th big, he wasn't playing much which PT at a bigger program was his reason for leaving W&M.

If you bring in Bagley at this point, you risk alienating Preston as well which wouldn't be good for KU.

It really would have been nice to have four bigs. We saw how valuable quality post depth is. If Self is willing to take Bagley, then it would be a good problem to have, but I doubt he is coming. Most likely he is going to Duke. Any word on other quality, experienced post men?

Are there any footers out there available? You cant have too many footers.

@Texas-Hawk-10 eh, I dont know about alienating Preston. Bill hasnt turned down talent that Im aware of, especially at a position that is thin. We need more than just Dok and Billy, not sure if Mitch is able to contribute adequately against the upper echelon teams. We need someone with more size. If, and yes its a big if, Marvin Bagley is interested, no way should we ever turn him down. Ever.

What the crap!? Why the hell is Whitman leaving!? I don't buy the playing time excuse because he would have had a ton of it. Especially early in the season.

@Lulufulu Not if Lightfoot is ahead of him. The 4th big under Self doesn't tend to more than a few minutes per game.

@Lulufulu I agree, kind of strange. Youd think he knew the situation before committing. In foul situations, he would have played a bit, especially with our front court already being a little green as it is. We would be absolutely loaded if Bagley comes. One can dream right?

@SkinnyKansasDude

How can we hope to compete with U.K., Duke and UNC without a William and Mary transfer?

It's hopeless!

Im hearing from certain folks that there was some sort of attitude issue with Whitman. Honestly wish he hadnt left as we need more size and girth than what Mitch offers. I like the guy and he will be a great four year player, but he doesnt have the size to compete against taller, more athletic and more talented teams. Maybe someone else will come around, but it will be a challenge to play more traditional Self ball, which is better and more effective than last years style, given that the personell is still similar. On top of that, Dok will need to learn how to stag out of foul trouble, and there will be games when he gets fouls early. Billy, talented but still a freshman, and undersized Mitch do not sound like a tremendous pair for long periods. I can only wonder why we cant get a slew of tall and athletic bigs like in the past. Just going to have to hope Self will find someone quickly.

Well that really sucks.

Bagley to Duke is a done deal. He has family that lives in the Durham area.

I really have no clue what's available at this point to just have a body. They have to get someone

Wasn't he the one who Mitch made come back to finish the blown layup in practice? Maybe he didn't like being told what to do by a youngster with no facial hair that could compete with the 'stache?

One name that maybe pops up is Deontae Hawkins. Illinois St's leading scorer averaged 14 and 6 on 44% 3 point shooting. Was supposedly headed to Boston College for his final year, then was looking into professional avenues. Now Gonzaga and New Mexico are receiving visits. He's better then Whitman so maybe we try and get involved late.

@BeddieKU23 44% from 3. looks like he can score down low as well.
[

jaybate 1.0 said:

@SkinnyKansasDude

How can we hope to compete with U.K., Duke and UNC without a William and Mary transfer?

It's hopeless!

It is a known fact that there have been a number of NCAA champions that included players who have heard of William and Mary.

:coffee:

Moving on then.

BeddieKU23 said:

One name that maybe pops up is Deontae Hawkins. Illinois St's leading scorer averaged 14 and 6 on 44% 3 point shooting. Was supposedly headed to Boston College for his final year, then was looking into professional avenues. Now Gonzaga and New Mexico are receiving visits. He's better then Whitman so maybe we try and get involved late.

Jamarko Pickett is also available. Don't know all the details here but he would be a fantastic addition. Late bloomer that committed early in his prep year and went to the same military school as Frank.

Looks like Pickett wants to stay in the DC area.

@BeddieKU23 He's a grad transfer I assume? Hawkins.

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 He's a grad transfer I assume? Hawkins.

yes he is.

@jaybate-1.0 As you say..."howling"

@BeddieKU23 I agree for sure, I don't care what personal opinion of him was- - myself I thought he would be a nice quality player for us -he will be missed unless they get a quality replacement - - - Believe that. - - I was totally caught of guard by this like WOW, where did that come from?

People saying there is a Bagley/Whitman connection? - - - -Come on let's be real here if people think there is a factor with the two on this - -I got some swamp land in Florida I can sell you real cheap. Bagley has Duke, Duke, Duke written all over him. It would just as much of a Shock for him to land here as Whitman leaving. - -Need to get this fixed really thin up front now for sure. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

The timing of it all sucks. We have no idea exactly why he's leaving but at this point he can go find that swamp land your talking about because its ridiculous that a kid would already be leaving for whatever reason. Where does the madness stop with this transfer stuff

I would hope that we hound Bagley for a visit at least now that we have PT and and open spot. Preston isn't going anywhere else at this point. He signed an LOI and would have to sit out this season if he did. Get Bagley on campus at least. I don't care if we land him or not, but no excuse for not getting him on campus.

Kcmatt7 said:

I would hope that we hound Bagley for a visit at least now that we have PT and and open spot. Preston isn't going anywhere else at this point. He signed an LOI and would have to sit out this season if he did. Get Bagley on campus at least. I don't care if we land him or not, but no excuse for not getting him on campus.

To this point he doesn't seem interested in doing that. We can hope he notices Whitman gone and reconsiders..

He may not take any visits past Duke. Lots of inside chatter about how he will make the transition to 2017 to play for Duke. And with him having family in the area this is becoming the Duval situation all over again

Hard to tell why a player like Whitman would leave.

Realistically, his chance of playing at the next level are extremely limited at best, so, one would think he came to KU with the idea of being a role payer at best and collecting a ring or two in his one year, the othre option being playing a much bigger role at a smaller program such a mid-major. Thinking that he would start of play substantial minutes at KU seems unrealistic.

Maybe he has come to terms with his limitations and has decided that investing his one year getting a degree at a higher level academic school better serves his future and I can understand this. If he has no future in pro ball getting a degree from, say an Ivy League school, compared to one from KU would be a no brainer. Where he lands will probably be a good indicator why he left.

@mayjay didn't jack also miss some camp scrimmages due to an elbow to head from, lt👟?

@jaybate-1.0 I was never thrilled about him

Well, if Jack was destined not to gel smoothly, now is probably the best time for him to sign off. Whether we sign another player before the international trip or not, is best not to waste playing minutes with a recruit who would return to Lawrence, then depart. With so many new players at the current 2, 4, 5 slots, the coaching staff must get a handle on future lineups pronto.

Bagley is good at basketball. Really good. When you're trying to win national titles, finding people that are really good at basketball helps you do that. If Bagley wants to come to KU, come on down. We can figure out minutes and rotations later. He's good at basketball, and that helps win games.

Additionally, Bagley is versatile, as is Preston. They could play together with Azuibuke because they can both handle and shoot from the perimeter (that front line would be HUGE). Playing them with Newman and Vick would be a pretty scary lineup. You could also go semi-small with those two, Svi, Vick and Graham together, or smaller with either Bagley or Preston, plus Svi, Vick, Newman and Graham. That's a fun lineup that would probably be very explosive without giving up much in the rebounding department if Bagley were in there as the only big.

Whitman was going to be a backup. Bagley could potentially start. That's an upgrade (if Bagley comes). If not, KU is still okay because Whitman was depth, not someone they were relying on.

@justanotherfan

Who's the backup for Azubuike's minutes though?

Preston is more of a SF then a 5, Lightfoot the same.

He had a role here, especially one that could be fluctuating by opponent, foul trouble, etc.

This is a crushing blow to the rotation.

@Kcmatt7 An LOI is not a legally binding agreement. Preston could still leave and play elsewhere without sitting out because fall classes haven't started yet. That's why Frankamp had to sit out at WSU, he left KU in September after classes had started.

Bagley isn't coming to KU. It's as likely that I suit up for KU this season.

And Whitman was going to play a bit, how much we can't really say. It's unfortunate, especially during the first semester as KU will only have 8 scholarship players.

@BShark Well, I for one welcome you to the team, and I am looking forward to you taking it in to the rim for a last-second victory at the Octagonnorhea of Doom!

@BeddieKU23

There are so few true 5's in CBB now that you don't have to have a true backup to the position. It's more important to have versatility than having a true 5, even as a starter, let alone as a backup.

@mayjay

I'M READY COACH, PUT ME IN.

@BShark

All righty then...how tall are you and how much eligibility you have left?

P.S. Can you play defense?

@JayHawkFanToo
6'1'', fat and old. Defense would be a problem. :grinning:

@JayHawkFanToo He defends his position on here pretty well usually.

justanotherfan said:

@BeddieKU23

There are so few true 5's in CBB now that you don't have to have a true backup to the position. It's more important to have versatility than having a true 5, even as a starter, let alone as a backup.

Line-ups without Doke will be trickier now. Lightfoot definitely isn't beefy enough to pull it off against most opponents. So it will be Preston by default I guess. Certainly Doke is going to get every last minute he can handle.

BShark said:

@JayHawkFanToo
6'1'', fat and old. Defense would be a problem. :grinning:

So you sound more effective as a thoroughly offensive player?

BShark said:

@JayHawkFanToo
6'1'', fat and old. Defense would be a problem. :grinning:

OK...never mind then.

Hopefully we hear something soon about potential replacements. If only we had non-goober insiders.

I think Whitman came to KU expecting to be the #3 option up front, but has discovered that Mitch's improvement has bumped him to #4. Without a history of excitement about KU, the uncertain possibility of getting a ring while not playing much might not be as attractive to him as playing a lot somewhere else.

As mentioned before, he may not go pro anywhere. Therefore, if he loves to play he would do well to go where he maximizes that opportunity. Unlike an underclassman, he is not able to project into the future knowing if he pays his dues now he might get more time later. This is it for him.

People who are scholarship players at places like W&M are likely not hugely motivated by dreams of Final Fours. Especially if they end up being merely an afterthought to 7 or 8 other guys.

meanwhile Evan Maxwell has surfaced at some place I've never heard.

Said KU was the worst year of his life. Apparently the KU life ain't for the weak

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/indiana_wesleyan_hoops_embracing_high_expectations_20170719 ↗

@BeddieKU23 Wow, I thought my phone was a crystal ball like Tolkien's palantír or something. I read your post, wished you had included the link, and then blue letters magically appeared on the page.

To test this, I will try to wish the winning numbers in Powerball to appear....

Thx for the link.

justanotherfan said:

@BeddieKU23

There are so few true 5's in CBB now that you don't have to have a true backup to the position. It's more important to have versatility than having a true 5, even as a starter, let alone as a backup.

Agree. But look at the Big-12's big's this season and I think KU has to get another body with size.

The Big-12 is going to have much improved post play this season. Acuil Jr, Lattin, Brodziansky, Smith, Wade, Maston, Williams are all experienced bigs with skill. Throw in Bamba at Texas who will be the highest drafted player of the bunch.

I think its better to have a 4th big then nothing at all

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 Wow, I thought my phone was a crystal ball like Tolkien's palantír or something. I read your post, wished you had included the link, and then blue letters magically appeared on the page.

To test this, I will try to wish the winning numbers in Powerball to appear....

Thx for the link.

Forgot that people usually like to see for their eyes so went back and edited it real quick.

if those winning numbers come through please help out a fellow bucketeer!

@BeddieKU23 "Said KU was the worst year of his life. Apparently the KU life ain’t for the weak."

I don't think it was the toughness, but the fact that he was suddenly in a public school (secular) environment after 2 years in a rigorously evangelical school, Liberty. The coach said he felt lost at Kansas, and I suspect the off-court shenanigans first semester soured him on his teammates if he wanted prayer-group instead of party buddies. Indiana Wesleyan is also an evangelical school, so he probably feels right at home.

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 "Said KU was the worst year of his life. Apparently the KU life ain’t for the weak."

I don't think it was the toughness, but the fact that he was suddenly in a public school (secular) environment after 2 years in a rigorously evangelical school, Liberty. The coach said he felt lost at Kansas, and I suspect the off-court shenanigans first semester soured him on his teammates if he wanted prayer-group instead of party buddies. Indiana Wesleyan is also an evangelical school, so he probably feels right at home.

Then don't we have to question why he ended up at KU in the first place? If the evangelical side of things was so important why did he choose the "big stage" KU scene..

@BeddieKU23 Why did any of us choose things we changed our minds about later? Perhaps because you expect things will be different? Maybe he connected well on a visit with someone who turned out to be different. Maybe someone threw up on his bed and everyone just laughed. More likely in my mind, he simply didn't realize how important a structured religious environment was to him until it was gone.

@BeddieKU23 As a further note to my last comment, you see many discharged servicemembers struggling to adapt to an unstructured life even after looking forward to getting away from military life.

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 Why did any of us choose things we changed our minds about later? Perhaps because you expect things will be different? Maybe he connected well on a visit with someone who turned out to be different. Maybe someone threw up on his bed and everyone just laughed. More likely in my mind, he simply didn't realize how important a structured religious environment was to him until it was gone.

Your probably spot on!

I think KU does have one thing they can use to help with Bagley. I believe Bagley and Josh Jackson were prep teammates before Bagley transferred to Sierra Canyon. The prep school they were at had NCAA accreditation issues which caused both to transfer away Jackson's senior year in 2015-16, but I do believe they were prep teammates in the Phoenix area in 2014-15 which was Bagley's freshman year of HS and JJ's junior year.

That'd be something worth using to try and get Bagley to KU for a visit and possible commitment.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I saw a quote from his dad where he said they were planning on visiting all the schools on his, including KU. Did I miss something or just typical internet rumors?

I say we go after Deontae from ISU. I don't think he has committed anywhere and he was one of the best players in the valley. Good size and athleticism too.

Blue Devil World‏ @Bluedevilworld · 2h2 hours ago

 More

Marvin Bagley is on his Duke visit earlier than expected.... he is on campus today!! #MarvinComeToDuke

What sucks is that he will have all the PT in the world at Duke or UA.

We have at least two mouths to feed no matter what, and not a great rep with Bigs these last few years. Not that Duke does either...

@Kcmatt7 Yes, but Dok and Billy arent going to play all of the available 80 minutes in the post. We need a third reliable big and Bagley could play 25 to 30 minutes. I just dont think Mitch is our third big this year, at least he shouldnt be. Bagley would get plenty of pt, that isnt the issue.

I thought we already had Whitman's minutes covered. Starting in place of Whitman, Clay Young will now play the last minute of games instead of Whitman.

I hope that Lightfoot has really made the strides necessary to be a factor. I hope the positive stories turn into positive results. We need for him to take a step up.

@KUSTEVE I hope so too. He struggled against height and was almost useless against Kentucky and Baylor. Besides growing two inches, not sure what he can do to compensate for that disparity.

@HawkChamp Bagely would start over Preston from day 1.

@Texas-Hawk-10 most likely, yes. Still plenty of pt for the three of them.

I think this is pretty crappy news. I highly doubt Bagley is gonna even end up reclassified or even at KU at this point. Only having 3 bigs could translate to trouble in the games that Doke is in foul trouble. I would be shocked if we didn't add a Juco or someone just to have a 4th big. The positive is that Mitch is likely ahead of where most thought he would be hence Whitman not thinking he would play much. One other good thing with the Italy trip is Billy should be ahead of most freshman entering the season.

I wonder if Svi kicking ass this summer has something to do with this. Was Self considering minutes for Svi at the 4? A 6'8 stretch 4 that can get you 25 points on any given night? Sounds pretty great to me.

@approxinfinity Is Svi good enough to get 25 points any night AND defend another 4 AND rebound well? I think we should stick with playing two posts. Defense last year was atrocious at times and that was with a great talent like Josh at the four. I doubt Svi is good enough to do it, plus his 6-5 wingspan would really hurt his effectiveness at the 4.

@HawkChamp We need a Dwight Coleby.

Whitman is leaving because he was behind Lightfoot.

And yes, Bagley would start and play 30+ mpg.

Lightfoot is a much better option than Svi at the 4. Hell I would posit that Vick is as well. We don't want to see Svi at the 4.

@BShark Lightfoot is, except if Svi finds his consistent trey gun / mid-range shot and Udoka turns into an overpowering glass monster. In that case I could see Svi working out at the 4.

@approxinfinity vick would be better than svi. Gator arms. Josh was perfect.

@Crimsonorblue22 but Vick is 6'5. Josh was 6'8.

@HawkChamp somebody's poisoned the waterhole.........Oops.

@approxinfinity that's why vick didn't play there! He's still better than svi there!🤣

@BShark Curious, where did you hear that Whitman was behind Lightfoot? @JayHawkFanToo might only be a year off in his breakout prediction, which is still earlier than I would have thought.

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 As a further note to my last comment, you see many discharged servicemembers struggling to adapt to an unstructured life even after looking forward to getting away from military life.

Not me. Never looked back after 20 years. Looked forward to settling down in one spot for a change. Think about the AF twelve times a yr when I check to make sure the retirement check is in the bank.

@brooksmd ah but you are always one step ahead of the rest!

@KUSTEVE I myself believe everyone of my fellow Crimson and Blue know how I feel about Mitch. - -I think the kid is a scrapper and when all said and done is going to represent himself and KU just fine.- - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@HighEliteMajor

Just rumours. I could have been more clear.

Oh and per Matt Scott Whitman was NOT pushed out by Self. It was just a poor fit and a decision completely by Whitman.

@BShark Whitman reminds me of kip LOL!!!

@HighEliteMajor

Coach Self indicated that Lightfoot has been having a terrific summer ↗ and gaining confidence.

Self doesn't sound too optimistic about being able to fill Whitman's scholarship this year.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

Self doesn't sound too optimistic about being able to fill Whitman's scholarship this year.

Yeah, it's pretty difficult at this point. :/

“We’re not gonna sign somebody just to sign somebody,” Self told the Journal-World. “The pool of players is so small.”

“The idea is to find someone to help you this year,” he said. “I think that’s the best way to put it. But if you can’t find someone to help us this year, there’s no reason to burn it.”

“This does not affect us on how we will play as long as everyone’s healthy,” Self said. “If you have an injury, that will obviously change the way we play a little. But, right now, I still see us playing two bigs more than we did last year.

“We’ve gotta get our best players on the floor and we’ve got a pretty good seven or eight right now. And that wasn’t including Jack. So not having Jack doesn’t affect how we play at all. Where it could affect us is, if a guy becomes injured, now you’re gonna probably be playing small a lot more.”

Staying healthy is a key part of any team’s success so nothing changed for the Jayhawks there. And Self will spend the next several days, including Friday, looking at every possible avenue to add a player who could impact the team in a positive way right away. He said the chances of adding such a player before the trip to Italy were “next to zero,” but added that he would still have time to look around at potential additions after their return on Aug. 8.

“We’ll go wherever we have to to find a body,” Self emphasized. “But the chances of finding somebody I don’t think are real high.”

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2017/jul/21/self-will-seek-fill-scholarship-opened-whitman-dep/ ↗

@BShark doesn't sound good or planned. Now the broken nose.....

tl;dr like @Texas-Hawk-10 said it seems like the spot might remain vacant.

Also it sounds like Whitman wasn't going to play much at all but that could be perceived as damage control. I think Self is being honest though.

@BShark It might remain vacant or it might not. Self said they were going to try to find someone. You never know.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article162966863.html ↗

@Statmachine can't get it. Over the limit

@Crimsonorblue22

More of the same.

“We’ll go wherever we have to, to try to find something,” Self said. “If there’s an unsigned (high schooler) or a juco (player) or overseas or whatnot, but the chances of finding somebody I don’t think are real high. If there’s a big walk-on out there, we’d probably be interested in him,” Self added.

Self said the loss of Whitman “doesn’t affect how we play at all. We’re going to play three bigs. We’ve still got three bigs who are going to play. Jack would have provided depth. Where it could affect us … if a guy becomes injured, now you are going to probably look at playing small a lot more.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luka-Samanic-98706/ ↗

@Crimsonorblue22 Clear your cookies. The count starts all over.

@approxinfinity I'm not sure about Svi's numbers. They seem more predicated on volume than efficiency. I don't see him playing the volume shooter role on the team unless his 3 pt % improves.

Statmachine said:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luka-Samanic-98706/ ↗

I'm intrigued. Realistic possibility?

@Bwag lots of to's too

@BShark good size at 6-10. I say go for it.

@HawkChamp no chest and no rear?

@Crimsonorblue22 sounds like he has some good skills. I think we should give him a try. Better than only having three bigs. Unless of course Bill gets Bagley to commit.

@BShark There are several possibilities over seas. This is just one possibility. You better believe Coach Self, Staff, and some foreign guy on this years team are on the hunt. Something more than team bonding, extra reps, and playing a few games will come out of this over seas trip.

@Statmachine maybe the cafeteria did not serve enough steak and nachos!

@BShark self seemed miffed in his comments with several veiled slights at the Whitman.

@JayHawkFanToo I definitely like the Lightfoot upside. If he is truly a competent 3rd big this season, that's a huge recruiting win there. Love the way he moves on the court. Lots of bounce.

@Fightsongwriter Can't blame Self for feeling that way this time. Whitman didn't tell Self face to face, he just left and told Self by phone after he was already home. I hope Self blocks Whitman from transferring wherever until Whitman comes back for a face to face exit meeting like whoever it was a few years ago Self temporarily blocked from leaving until the kid did it the right way. This really isn't a great look for Whitman because it really does come across as him quitting on the team.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I think Self should just move on and let him go. No need to stew. Looking vindictive would hurt future recruiting. Let Jack be the one who looks bad by himself.

Then again, I hate any coach who tries to block a transfer because I believe kids should be able to move more freely, so this is just an extension of that philosophy. If Self did it before, I have forgotten.

@Texas-Hawk-10. Who said i was blaming him. I read the papers. Bill is a master communicator (despite the stutter), he made jack the nit Whitman without looking petty imho. He is super savvy with how he says things. He clearly made him loook like the classless coward he must be for slinking out of town. Man up Whit, a grad transfer should be old enough to handle his junk....wait that came out wrong!

@mayjay It doesn't hurt future recruiting though. Self has a way of doing things and when players don't do things the right way according to Self, there's negative consequences to that. In this case, telling Self face to face and having the exit meeting. I want to say the player Self did it to previously was Rio Adams, but I could be off on that one.

I think the loss of Whitman is bigger than advertised. But what I'm not willing to say is that this will necessarily be a bad thing. It is starting to look like we will be playing more 4-guard lineups. I like 4-guard lineups, especially if we can have a monster like Udoka in the middle. I just don't know how many minutes a game we can get out of Udoka and Billy. They are both inexperienced and you can bet foul trouble will be an issue, especially as teams will attack our low depth in the post.

I think the issue with Whitman was his strength. He didn't have the strength to translate his game at KU. He just wasn't going to get there in a few months. Hudy is amazing... but she needs time to build players. So... perhaps we wouldn't have received much help from Whitman in depth.

Bagley? Yeah... that would be awesome to sign him. I think he is Duke bound.

Maybe we can still land a senior transfer? How does that work this late? I would think it would be tough to steal one because of timing. Isn't it likely that most or all of them have now accepted aid already?

@drgnslayr The biggest issue is that KU will only have 8 scholarship players until mid-December when Cunliffe becomes eligible. Garrett, Svi/Vick, and Lightfoot will be the bench. If an injury or major foul issues happen, there will be a walk on playing relevant minutes for KU this season.

@drgnslayr I also like playing four guards IF those guards are really good defensively. Im just not sure our current guards are good enough outside of Devonte. Villanova was the best college example of playing four out one in, but each one of those guards were defensive savants.

I would much rather see the traditional two posts, which Bill said he was going to do. Maybe its just him talking again, but I think we will see it if he can snag another post man, preferably someone around 6-10 or 6-11.

@HawkChamp KU doesn't have the depth to play a traditional 3-2 line up all the time. Lightfoot is too small to play in the post on offense so when he's in, KU will be in a 4 out set. KU is also not likely going to find a capable body to fill that spot at this point.

Yes, I know. It will be half traditional half four out. It will work if our guards play good defense.

@HawkChamp It doesn't matter if the defense is good or not, KU doesn't have options because they don't have the bodies. Garrett, Svi or Vick, and Lightfoot are the sub options for the 1st month of the season. Lightfoot and Vick don't have the bulk to guard bigger 4's, Svi is just a below average defender, and Garrett is a question mark on defense until we see him play. Cunliffe is the best fit as the 4th big, but he doesn't become eligible until mid December so KU has 3 subs to start the year before they get into walk ons. KU will be very limited in their options this year as far as subs go.

@Texas-Hawk-10

I flip both ways on the issues of depth.

It sounds great to have a load of depth every year... but then we get into the issue of keeping the rust off of all of them. That sometimes creates friction within the team... I know it is a good thing to have competition for minutes... but when it gets too far out of balance, where we can't give minutes to players that really should be getting some, it can be harmful.

Sometimes teams with a short bench do very well because those players get all the PT they need to come together as a team.

What counts (to me) is the guys carrying a chip. Rarely does the most-talented team win in March.

HawkChamp said:

Im just not sure our current guards are good enough outside of Devonte.

If we have that problem, then having two bigs in there won't solve it. It usually ends up creating foul trouble for our bigs if our guards can't move their feet well enough to stay in front of the competition.

I hope Udoka will sharpen his defense. Right now, I just see him getting into foul trouble often. That can change dramatically if his defensive game is coming along.

Remember the transformation of Withey?

Some of you are talking about Lightfoot not being big enough for the post. I helped at a camp recently and saw Billy and he's not all that big himself. Tall, but not muscled up all that much as of yet. Mitch was not at the camp so I don't have a comparison but from what I've seen elsewhere he has the superior 'motor'.

Doke on the other hand has lost weight, Devonte said about 30lbs, and I'm guessing from the look of him he would have lost more except for he has been building muscle. I said last year that for as big as he was he was light on his feet and moved well. This year he looked even better in that regard and he has good hands. There was not a full up scrimmage so hard to say what his stamina is going to be however it is quite apparent that he has spent some time with Hudy while he was recovering. I worry about his ability to stay on the floor like many of the rest of you but I think Lightfoot is going to be the best option after Doke and not Billy this season. Mainly because I think Mitch wants it more and is going to put out more of an effort. I will say that I hope I am proved wrong!

@Kubie Reason why Mitch may not be big enough has nothing to do with height. 6-8 is plenty tall enough to guard in the post against other 4's as most college 4's are in the 6-8 to 6-9 range. The concern is his weight. He may have a great motor, but that motor doesn't change the physics of what'll happen when he's guarding someone who has 25-30 lbs. of muscle of him which will happen in the Big 12 and NCAA Tournament against other P5 programs. Mitch should be fine against the low majors KU will play in the nonconference, but that's not where the issue ever was since that's about 10 games out of potentially 40 for KU.

@drgnslayr I believe in the adage that it's better to have and not need than to not have and need. I'd much rather have the issue of trying to find minutes for everyone than not have enough players for all the minutes.

That 2008 team was the deepest KU team perhaps ever. That team also suffered through injuries to multiple players throughout the season. Without the depth they had, they don't win that title. 2012 was very fortunate to not have any injury issues because that team was even thinner than this team will be in terms of depth.

If Mitch is ahead of Billy this team is in TROUBLE imo. I don't intend this as a slight towards Mitch at all, he will be a key piece for this team but Billy is needed to be very good.

I hope that Preston fully comprehends just how important his development is in terms of this squad's advancing to the Final Four. If he is mature and determined, capable of handling Bill Self's coaching, this team is bound for glory.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Sorry I was not clear, I know it's a weight issue with Lightfoot, I just wanted to point out that Preston isn't built either. He looked like what we used to call a beanpole back in the day. Now that's not saying he isn't strong, just that it doesn't show.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Mitch played at 209 pound las season and since then he has gained 8 pounds as of June and he expects to gain another 8 by the beginning of the season and get to 225 pounds ↗. Not bad for his build.

@REHawk I'm guessing the vets are working him over pretty good, maybe why jack Walt Whitman left? lt👟 Already worked over jack during camp scrimmages and somebody broke lt👟'S 👃. 🤔
Has Preston been cleared to play?

@Crimsonorblue22

Jack Quitman

Not particularly witty of me, but it's true.

So our post situation is a composed of a seldom used sophomore, a sophomore who played 11 games due to injury, and a freshman.

Let that sink in for a minute

Self needs to pull some magic tricks and find himself another player with size and for depth.

Bagley just completed a trip to Duke this weekend. He is planning on visiting USC and Arizona soon. Important to not that if he wants to reclassify, which would make him eligible for the 2018 draft, both Arizona and USC are out of scholarships, taking them out of contention for him. Duke would probably be in the lead, with Kentucky and us behind them. I still see no harm in going after him if he wants to reclassify, which financially for him is a good move. He wouldn't have to wait an extra year for a contract.

HawkChamp said:

Bagley just completed a trip to Duke this weekend. He is planning on visiting USC and Arizona soon. Important to not that if he wants to reclassify, which would make him eligible for the 2018 draft, both Arizona and USC are out of scholarships, taking them out of contention for him. Duke would probably be in the lead, with Kentucky and us behind them. I still see no harm in going after him if he wants to reclassify, which financially for him is a good move. He wouldn't have to wait an extra year for a contract.

Arizona would make it work if he was serious about going to them. They have a player who sat out last season due to injury that they added for depth purposes only.

USC definitely doesn't have any openings and I can't see Bagley wanting to play behind 2 potential NBA forwards that they currently have.

He's been a done deal to Duke for a while if he can make it work reclassifying. Kansas should have pushed for one of his visits after Duke..

We have a starting position to sell him. Crazy that we can't fill it.

BeddieKU23 said:

So our post situation is a composed of a seldom used sophomore, a sophomore who played 11 games due to injury, and a freshman.

Let that sink in for a minute

Self needs to pull some magic tricks and find himself another player with size and for depth.

So you're saying KU has tons of experience on Kentucky!

@BeddieKU23 It has sunk in. Deeply.

dylans said:

BeddieKU23 said:

So our post situation is a composed of a seldom used sophomore, a sophomore who played 11 games due to injury, and a freshman.

Let that sink in for a minute

Self needs to pull some magic tricks and find himself another player with size and for depth.

So you're saying KU has tons of experience on Kentucky!

Technically yes, although Gabriel played more minutes for them then Doke/Lightfoot have combined..

I wasn't worried when we had Whitman who was expected to blend his experience, big body, and scoring around the rim to sprinkle into the rotation but now its looking bare down in the post. We hear great things of Mitch's progress and the potential that lies within Preston if we can get it out of him here. We know how good Doke is potentially. It's all potential. We need another body no matter if he doesn't play a ton.

@BeddieKU23

Well, at least it's better than just a limited 5th year sr. So not ideal, but improvement from last year....

@Texas-Hawk-10

I definitely hear what you are saying.... I just think every team is different and sometimes the struggle of having less can be a plus.

And then... other times... the depth really pays off!