🏀 KuBuckets Archive

We were on the short end of a 16 point deficit on a 11 point differential from 3 point.

What did we do defensively to try and offset their strength of 3 point shooting from 5 positions efficiently? We played it straight. They made us pay.

2 year’s ago, the difference was that they disrupted us by blowing up our offense beyond the ark (our weave O). They did the same to us this year - not the weave, but ran us off the 3 (our strength) - and we allowed them to shoot relatively freely especially early.

I will grant that they ate us up late when we finally adjusted, but that is a natural transition. At that point we had to come from way back and they were ready for it.

Back to defensive strategy. How long in the game until we took our first 3 point shot even? I don’t know the time butb they had shot 18 to our 1 at that point ( and made 10).

So we’re disrupted and they aren’t to that point.

When we adjust, they are ready.

I don’t like our switching defense. But let me qualify that. I think we did it this year due to personnel shortage. Self had to do that because he couldn’t hold folks accountable with playing time due to depth ( that’s another discussion on recruiting philosophy and issues), so he was forced into trying to make the most of a thin situation.

That said - we over-achieved- and it was a great year. Made it to a dang Final 4 in a year that we didn’t think possible (especially when Preston was gone).

Is it time for Bill to adjust on defensive philosophy like he has on Offense? Wow- isn’t that ironic but in hindsight, not. It’s coming fully into the realization that the 3 point shot ( and attendant player skill level) has completely changed the game.

For a 3 point shooting team- you must disrupt that.

Shouldn't be that hard to make them shoot 2s instead of 3s.

Needed to go small and make them drive. We stuck with Doke(too slow for that) and Silvio(too raw to cover in space).

I almost wish we would have tried Garrett a the 5.

@Bwag kids love chucking the threes so it’s great to continually force them to drive

Both sides need adjusting without a doubt

Your point for accountability based on quick hooks affecting recruiting and development is also another bill short coming

I said earlier in the week we shouldn’t help and switch everything because I’d rather make them hit tough 2s than open 3s. They flatout had more talent and athleticism than we did. It would’ve took a perfect game to win.

kjayhawks said:

I said earlier in the week we shouldn’t help and switch everything because I’d rather make them hit tough 2s than open 3s. They flatout had more talent and athleticism than we did. It would’ve took a perfect game to win.

Agree with this as well.

A hall of fame high school coach I know always said you win by making the one or two guys who never score 30 have to in order to beat you.

Meaning let booth and their other least productive shooter have open shots every single time. If you’re guarding them you help on ever drive and let booth not make 5 threes but heck 7 or 8 because I bet he can’t. Whoever the weakest two players on the floor are you always let them shoot. Do everything u can to guard other guys. What u get is guys shooting who mentally know their role isn’t to do more than chip in 10-15 a night and when left open freeze

It’s Vick against uw at sprint

kuballin10 said:

@Bwag kids love chucking the threes so it’s great to continually force them to drive

Both sides need adjusting without a doubt

Your point for accountability based on quick hooks affecting recruiting and development is also another bill short coming

On one hand Self has completely broken players like Bragg. Otoh you have success stories like Russ Rob and Newman.

He's been...getting better about it I think. Next year will be more of a test. Lots of options.

Recruiting was excellent this year after the shit show in 2017 so hopefully it continues. Some legitimately good ins the next two classes including but not limited to: a top 30 guard whose mom went to HS with Jerrance Howard, a top 30 guard whose dad played for Self at Tulsa, a top 50 wing who had multiple family members graduate from KU (including mom), Ttp 40 guard in Topeka, top 25 modern post player from KC whose dad went to KU etc...

Braggs downfall had nothing to do w/B.B.

@kuballin10 it was why Garrett (still love him) was open.

All this time we thought it was Jay Wright’s offensive philosophy we needed. It is his defensive philosophy.

Though the realization is that is the complete adjustment both offensively AND defensively to the 3pt shot (and improving skill set of players) that needs to be fully realized.

To be even more consistently successful, you need the ability to adapt to the opponent’s personnel and skill set.

Bill’s Hi-Lo is great. But I’m this day and age, that won’t always be successful.

So I think we need more flexibility defensively and the realization that the team personnel needs to allow for flexibility.

Don’t know if college limitations on number of players and practice time ultimately allows for consistent success or it comes down to circumstances year in/year out.

Perhaps Bill needs to adjust on this shortening the bench as the year progresses approach. But he’s the hall of famer and I’m nobody (literally).

At the end of the day, I think he has the recruiting and knowledge to completely dominate. (This year recruiting misses and issues created a particularly rough scenario-and I’d say given that, we over-achieved, which is to give Self credit for recovering from miscues-we are ALL human).

Great season. No bad feelings. Just- how do we get better. What do we need to learn!

@Crimsonorblue22 He wasn't prepared for the barrage from the coaching staff. I hope the UNM staff are sunshine guys.

BShark said:

kuballin10 said:

@Bwag kids love chucking the threes so it’s great to continually force them to drive

Both sides need adjusting without a doubt

Your point for accountability based on quick hooks affecting recruiting and development is also another bill short coming

On one hand Self has completely broken players like Bragg. Otoh you have success stories like Russ Rob and Newman.

He's been...getting better about it I think. Next year will be more of a test. Lots of options.

Recruiting was excellent this year after the shit show in 2017 so hopefully it continues. Some legitimately good ins the next two classes including but not limited to: a top 30 guard whose mom went to HS with Jerrance Howard, a top 30 guard whose dad played for Self at Tulsa, a top 50 wing who had multiple family members graduate from KU (including mom), Ttp 40 guard in Topeka, top 25 modern post player from KC whose dad went to KU etc...

Modern guy is n’faly, and Topeka is Harvey

Who’s the other ones?

@BShark I think Self needs to look at using his depth and experimenting with various ways of playing.

Hope Doke stays and we develop both Hi-Lo and 4 guard offense.

Like to see us show more accountability on defense and have a lock down and flexible defensive strategy used.

@BShark

Exactly let Garrett shoot
During our run he chucks two wide open threes as Wright wants.

Make guys who aren’t “the guy” beat you

Bwag said:

@BShark I think Self needs to look at using his depth and experimenting with various ways of playing.

Hope Doke stays and we develop both Hi-Lo and 4 guard offense.

Like to see us show more accountability on defense and have a lock down and flexible defensive strategy used.

I’m afraid we will be decent at both but not great at one or the other which is the issue.

He just said his talk of live by the three die by the three wouldn’t apply tonight

Go figure

Yeah. The 3 point shot and the growing skill level of players is changing the game.

Adapt or die.

Both offensively and defensively.

@kuballin10 JRE is the modern post player actually. I didn't include Dante in that mix. KU will have a solid shot but that will be a war.

Duh big blank on my end with jre

He’s talented but more Wiggins in terms of attitude than josh Jackson unfortunately

@Bwag Preston would have been an athletic 4-5 we could have used.

@kuballin10 The others are Adam Miller, Bryce Thompson and Sam Williamson. Plenty of other good targets as well but those are all very good ins. Thompson and Williamson can both really shoot it.

They left Garrett open on purpose no doubt but I didn’t mind him trying to help get us back in, Malik missed a good look and Svi missed a shot at the rim with Garrett’s 2 3 points misses that would’ve cut it to 7 there with about 8 to go when actually got a few stops. What makes them hard to gaurd on night like tonight is they had 6 guys hit atleast 2 3s and a 7th hit one. Their starting 5 man went 4-5 from distance. No college team I’ve seen in recent memory was gonna beat Nova tonight, know our luck they be icey against Michigan like they were vs TT and lose. Which I’ll be pulling for Michigan anyway.

Go to 42:01 of video.

So again why not Lightfoot once Spellman was shooting well?

kjayhawks said:

They left Garrett open on purpose no doubt but I didn’t mind him trying to help get us back in, Malik missed a good look and Svi missed a shot at the rim with Garrett’s 2 3 points misses that would’ve cut it to 7 there with about 8 to go when actually got a few stops. What makes them hard to gaurd on night like tonight is they had 6 guys hit atleast 2 3s and a 7th hit one. Their starting 5 man went 4-5 from distance. No college team I’ve seen in recent memory was gonna beat Nova tonight, know our luck they be icey against Michigan like they were vs TT and lose. Which I’ll be pulling for Michigan anyway.

I minded him shooting. Played right into what nova wanted. Garrett is like Doke if it isn’t s layup or dunk it isn’t going in.

His job is drive and kick to an open shooter

If he hits it, yes. But we’ll-coached playing %’s

He actually had shot it better here recently, thought he could’ve gotten one to go. If he can work on his shot he’ll be a dam good player in the near future.

I've never seen anyone go from being this bad a shooter to a good shooter. Maybe decent is in his future.

Doke should have never started this game. This was obviously a game in which we needed to surprise and we did nothing. We played like scared little pussies giving them so much space along the arc.

I am really disappointed in Bill this time. I am not going to hide it. Yes, they hit a ton of threes but how many were open? Too many. And that is unacceptable. We didn’t put any pressure on ova defensively and gave them exactly what they were expecting. This was a a disaster. Someone tell me otherwise.

Who would u have preferred?

@Crimsonorblue22 if you’re asking me, I leave Doke out most of the game. I also probably sit Svi in favor of another big (yes I said it). You’re not going to beat Nova the normal way. They were always better than us, and it appears that they have a better coach too.

I love Bill Self and our team. I am satisfied with the progress we made this year. We were inferior. Our coach was inferior.

But who you putting in for them?

It just seemed, to me, that Jay Wright and company, had a plan and worked that plan. On the other hand, we looked like our plan was to hope they missed shots. Self even said after the game that they knew V was going to have to miss shots in order for us to win. OOOPS! We have 6 days to prepare and that’s the strategy we come up with? Could we have at least put some pressure on the shooters? Practically all of their looks were WIDE open.

All frustration aside, we did overachieve this year, and we have a ton to be proud of/ thankful for. Making the FF is a huge accomplishment. It just looked like we ( Bill Self’s staff primarily) were content with being there, while Jay Wright and company were there to do work. Props to them.

Jay Wright is making a great argument against one and done. He has even managed to convince talented players to redshirt. Lots of players are going to play professionally after playing at Villanova, after putting in the hard work in College and not rushing out the door. Also, it appears he has a grudge against us after the 2008 game with Collins and Chalmers. Just my opinion. I don't think Coach Self has to change his model after losing this game. I would have liked to see Svi and Newman shoot more baseline 3's which is what they are excellent at. 6 more 3's fall and maybe we are having a different conversation.

@KansasComet you may be right on the grudge.

Their philosophy was to not let us shoot 3’s. And we didn’t for the longest time.

The last time we played in E8, they also disrupted our movement on the perimeter, our game wasn’t so much a full embrace of the 3 at that time.

@Bwag Thanks. I thought back to what was said in Beyond the Phog.

Our defense was not good the whole year. This team got blown out on several occasions throughout the year. We never guarded the 3 point line in last night's game. Next year, we will be much better defensively. Our front line will be massive. If Spellman wants to go out to the 3 point line, Lawson will be in his grille ( we play Nova the next two years).

http://m.ljworld.com/news/2018/apr/01/villanovas-defense-3-point-line-just-crucial-its-s/ ↗

Article discussing their approach on defense

@kuballin10 @BigBad He actually had a decent mid-range pull-up game in HS. He was over 60% from 2. Never been a three point shooter though. He just needs to get more comfortable at this level and he should be good.

@kjayhawks The answer to this Villanova game becomes the last chapter of next year's book and the rest of the chapters should get written from there. Silvio doesn't need to be able to hit the 3 but he should be able to guard it come March.

Given that our team this year shot 40% from 3 and next year is very likely a regression, winning a game like this one will likely have to be mostly on the defensive end.

betterfireE said:

Doke should have never started this game. This was obviously a game in which we needed to surprise and we did nothing. We played like scared little pussies giving them so much space along the arc.

I am really disappointed in Bill this time. I am not going to hide it. Yes, they hit a ton of threes but how many were open? Too many. And that is unacceptable. We didn’t put any pressure on ova defensively and gave them exactly what they were expecting. This was a a disaster. Someone tell me otherwise.

I’m disappointed to but we overachieved by a mile.

Honestly I had people saying we need to defend like nova in the gameday chat which I 100% agree with but the players did what Bill wanted defensively as his game plan was hope nova misses which is horrible.

That’s why I preached offense because defensively we haven’t been good all year. We may get a stop late sure but nothing continuous.

Offensively is what got us here and we needed to freely let it fly which we didn’t. Some of that nova and plenty of it self inflicted with “feed the post” to start.

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Four of the best ran offenses in college hoops this year. And Self went away from what made this team good on offense. :shrug_tone1:

Not sure KU wins even if he didn't but it's disappointing.

Villanova would’ve been ranked #1 all year if it wasn’t for Virginia. No shame in losing to that team on an unbelievable shooting night. I don’t care how guarded or unguarded the shots were they knocked them down.

@BShark I seem to remember lots of posts here over the last few days about how we should force it inside to get Pascall and Spellman in foul trouble defending Doke.

@mayjay Not from me, at least that I remember.

@dylans For all the talk of troughs and peaks, if you rewatch those games, it’s clear than defense can dictate how well you shoot. And we did not play perimeter defense in the beginning when we got down 22-5 or whatever it was.

@betterfireE There are not 7 guys on KU’s team that can hit a three. Don’t take away from what Villanova did, they were far more awesome than KU was bad.

@dylans Apparently we don’t have 5 guys, or even 3 guys that can guard the perimeter. I’m proud of this season, but this team, Coach Self included, was unprepared for the most important game of the season. And they know it. It’s not like we gave it all, and they were just better than us. We gave no pressure defensively, had a horrible game plan. Players and coach. The bitterness is really because we didn’t leave it all out there.

And it’s tiring to hear people on this board complain about criticism of the coaching staff. Bill Self makes more per year than many people reading this will make in their lives. I think he is deserving of criticism.

This is Kansas. We should expect more. And last night we were embarrassed on National television.

I admit I did hope for more with a week to prepare. I thought that would be an advantage for CS. We just weren't able to to take advantage I guess. Personally I believe this team achieved well beyond their depth and overall talent level. So I'm not disappointed in the players or coaching staff for this particular season as a whole.

Hmm wonder how much coach K makes?

@BShark I think you have nailed it. KU went from a 4 guard offense to an inside-out low post oriented offense the first 10 or so minutes in the game.

BShark said:

@mayjay Not from me, at least that I remember.

Yes, you are correct. I got lost in all the flipping up and down.

@Bwag I just don't understand the double teams. They had no inside presence at all and we just left the shooters wide open.
This game eerily reminded me of our game against Syracuse. Crazy first half shooting and they were out of the game.