🏀 KuBuckets Archive

FBI names KU according to KK.

After reading it it's all adidas until proven otherwise

According to the article I read, university of Kansas is a victim of fraud?

NM

@Eric-san Probably legally. But only because someone has to fall on the sword and I seriously doubt it to be Bill Self.

Gots to be JJ's mom. Honestly, how that went down I would have picked him over anyone else that has come here.

That recruitment was to MSU what the Ayton one was to us.

Minus Bill Self allegedly being on tape ordering the payment.

Julian Wright's hamburger story never sat well with me. Preston signing out if the blue threw up major red flags also.

Another report alleging De Sousa is caught in this

Well at least we know that Adidas was trying to do it's part for us against Nike lol. The "embargo" was real for a period of time.

I'm sure other schools are laughing at us right now. But I can't wait to see what comes out of the EYBL raid. Adidas didn't just start paying players $90k while Nike wasn't lol.

Cal and K just landed 9 of the top 25 player for 2018 lol. BUT NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS.

Two players listed with Silvio signing date matching one description. It is between Billy and Garrett for the other one.

@MR11 Link?

https://ljw.bz/2EAC7r6 ↗

@MR11 thanks pal

Small caveat is that no coaches are listed in the Kansas section

Sadly, I think the description on the second matches Garrett closer than Billy

Does sound like De Sousa. If that is the case, also sounds like they got blackmailed by UA. It was KU or Maryland right?

No coaches listed. Players dealing directly with Adidas. JJ's mom could absolutely be in deep shit here though if she didn't claim everything correctly.

I think KU is going to be fine. The first player is Billy, the second Silvio. They payments were intentionally hidden to defraud KU. It says specifically Silvio wanted to come to KU anyway.

The FBI says that player 2/guardian 1 needed Adidas funds to repay illicit payments from another shoe company. The player did not want to attend another school since the player was more interested in KU. So the FBI is saying another shoe company was making payments to players.

Isn't there is a major ineligibility problem, though, if the players received payments? At minimum, vacating the F4, tourney appearances in 2017 and 2018, and all our victories in both seasons?

MR11 said:

Sadly, I think the description on the second matches Garrett closer than Billy

Incorrect.

FarmerJayhawk said:

I think KU is going to be fine. The first player is Billy, the second Silvio. They payments were intentionally hidden to defraud KU. It says specifically Silvio wanted to come to KU anyway.

Facts

The NCAA is going to clear Nas Little and Quinerly. We’ll be fine.

FarmerJayhawk said:

The NCAA is going to clear Nas Little and Quinerly. We’ll be fine.

Lol for real.

I mean, we now know why Preston didn't play. KU was smart enough to actually figure it out. Missed it with Silvio but that situation sounds very weird.

@mayjay If Kansas didn’t know of ineligibility issues during the season, it won’t have to vacate any wins.

I mean just shocking that Preston's mom took money right?

Also this means Maryland paid for Silvio, lol.

BShark said:

Also this means Maryland paid for Silvio, lol.

Don't worry we are still the a-holes to them

mayjay said:

Isn't there is a major ineligibility problem, though, if the players received payments? At minimum, vacating the F4, tourney appearances in 2017 and 2018, and all our victories in both seasons?

I guess it could be seen that way..i still think there needs to implicit evidence that ku was involved which seems to not be the case. Billy never played. Silvio is a different story but I believe what I stated above would be needed as well to implicate the program?

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

Also this means Maryland paid for Silvio, lol.

Don't worry we are still the a-holes to them

Oh without a doubt.

!alt text ↗

@BShark good statement. Repeat the indictment’s language and say you’re good to cooperate with the investigation, and ignore the NCAA.

@BeddieKU23 No one at UMass knew about Camby's money did they? Or Villanova, with Porter?

These days, all KU Athletics needs to do is say the magic words in a tweet... FAKE NEWS!

OK guys so now you get to see my real stupidity .- so bare with me as I ask these questions. - -First I believe whether we are guilty of ANYTHING of not and it says that the University is a victim here not a defendant - but I do think this whole scenario if he hadn't already decided I and some others I've talked too says they feel this here will be just enough to steer Romeo away from committing here. - I think he is now out or we are now out of the picture for him I'm afraid.

Now my questions: - -Guys do you think this will have any effect on our other 4 commits ? - will they ask for a release? - or will they stick with us? - I'm just asking. - -Have we seen the last of Silvio now?

Bottom line my friends where do we end up at the end of the day with this is done? - Any penalities? - I mean we all know for sure it was Josh - -but KU ( the University was not involved there at all - -that was between Gatto and Apples right? - we had NOTHING our hands was not in that kettle right? - -someone help me out - what happens to us? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@SlickRockJayhawk I like the "We're VICTIMS!" card.

@jayballer73 not josh or his mom

People assumed Josh. It was Billy. @jayballer73

Kevin Knox played. Ayton played. Sexton played. Little and Quinerly will play. So Silvio can probably play. Doesn't seem he had any knowledge of it, and didn't see a dime. KU is certainly deep enough in the post to not play him. Wonder how it shakes out.

If the NCAA does anything, they’ll give Silvio a slap on the wrist a la Selby. Worst possible case is the entire season suspension like Wiley at Auburn. But I think a semester may be a realistic expectation.

@mayjay sounds like Joe Monaco has already played that card. But it's not nebulus enough to be effective :)

Apparently on April 25th the basketball commission will be releasing their findings & resolutions for the NCAA.

Yea I reread it, and it is definitely Billy instead of Josh. My bad.

This really sucks. So, i guess this means all the Nike recruits are all going to KY and Dook because they want the college experience, and aren't receiving a dime. Yeah, right. This was simply a plan to take out a foreign competitor through the long arm of the law. If they were actually investigating fraud, I think everyone of the KY recruits have been paid, as well as every one of Dooks. But, we will never know that, will we? Because they will NEVER truly investigate Nike.

@KUSTEVE On the bright side, no way KU sticks with Adidas lol.

@KUSTEVE I'd just give it a minute. I'm sure the Nike hammer will come.

If I was joshs mom......

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23107028/prosecutors-add-more-criminal-counts-adidas-executive-fbi-college-basketball-probe ↗

@BShark ya well sounded pretty logical to umm LOTS - not just jayballer 73 lmao. - But we know you didn't give that a thought right? - - Sure you didn't it's ok. - go ahead cast those stones lmao. still ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY.

Oh ya guess you didn't feel like to answer the important question that I ask huh? - like in the end run how is this going to effect us - Penalities? - De-Commits? - -Ya I'll say it again even if the University has no wrong doing in this - -This kind of pub is just what Indiana ordered for the Romeo recruitment. - -Couldn't have come at a better time for them. - That's ok though if it does - -were still gonna be fine. - We were fine before Romeo- and he now doesn't come- we still be fine - ok ready - -GO - -throw those stones lmao

I doubt there will be any decommits.

Maybe we can get a contract for our shoe's wear the " BIG BALLER BRAND ROFLMAO " - just kidding. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Kcmatt7 Matt... you're just too connected to the concept of equal justice, fairness, impartiality, and general goodness to believe this a true hit, and not a random event under a system of fairness that will eventually getting around to punishing the KYs and the Dooks of the Nike Empire. Adidas- "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" / Nike- "Shuffle some papers. Make it look good". It appears the FBI is doing it's best to run Adidas out of this country.

The indictment says Gatto and others concealed payments to the first Kansas player by transferring money to an AAU team controlled by the unidentified Adidas consultant. He delivered $30,000 to the mother at a hotel room in New York on Oct. 31, 2016, and another $20,000 in cash at a hotel room in Las Vegas on Jan. 19, 2017. The consultant also wired $15,000 to the player's mother on June 14, 2017.

Billy Preston's mom ladies and gentlemen!

@BShark Dodge Charger.

@BShark That IS a bright side.

!alt text ↗

If they bought that charger with the money they are some of the dumbest people

@BeddieKU23 I mean...you've read some of Billy's mom's twitter right?

@BShark

Yes, her son is Jesus or something like that and he's a millionaire, well apparently just a thousandaire. Whatever the case they sure didn't hide their stupidity

How surprising. This woman, who projected her actions were keeping her son pristine, took money? And the Charger was dirty? Shocked.

Doesn't Adidas have interest in Jackson going to KU just as much (if not more) than KU does? I could obviously see how KU would be interested in bending the rules a little to get a talent like that, but I'd bet there's some guys within the Adidas camp that are a lot more desperate than Self and Co. I just hope KU doesn't have to vacate any wins due to Jackson being technically ineligible.

chriz said:

Doesn't Adidas have interest in Jackson going to KU just as much (if not more) than KU does? I could obviously see how KU would be interested in bending the rules a little to get a talent like that, but I'd bet there's some guys within the Adidas camp that are a lot more desperate than Self and Co. I just hope KU doesn't have to vacate any wins due to Jackson being technically ineligible.

Josh is, at least currently, not involved. The current stuff is about Preston and Silvio.

Josh's mom got $90k didn't she?

If Silvio took money, whether KU knew about it or not......wasn't he still an ineligible participant? Hence....aren't any wins that he participated in potentially in jeopardy?

I should have said, If Silvio or his family took money.....

chriz said:

Josh's mom got $90k didn't she?

No

Check the ESPN article. Billy's mom. I was confident from the jump it was Billy just based on the timing when other people were saying JJ.

Hawk8086 said:

I should have said, If Silvio or his family took money.....

Wording is weird. It says his guardian took money to pay pack Under Armor. Odds are he took more but who knows.

KU will be fine either way. Always thought the vacated stuff was funny. The games happened. Also are they going to just vacate the entire season? Some mid or low major NCAA champs?

I’m fairly worried at this point that the 2018 season could easily be vacated, at least the wins that Silvio played in. Interesting enough a source I trusted today told me before this news broke that KU maybe headed away from Adidas very very soon. I would be shocked at this point if stuff isn’t vacated, hopefully they have stuff on some Nike schools like Dook or we could be headed down real quick.

@BShark I agree vacating is weird, the games happened...but ask Michigan about vacated wins. They happened, but it is not the same.

@kjayhawks Vacate my ass I say. Total joke if it happens.

Nike and UA are just as involved. Football involved too.

KU didn't play Preston after finding out, and the Silvio situation is super weird. I don't see vacating anything but we will see....

Fact is the NCAA cleared Silvio. NCAA and KU apparently had no knowledge of the situation. Would be odd to punish KU for it.

I would think punishment of a school, i.e., vacating wins, would be based on the player status, not knowledge or culpability of the school.

We cannot dump Adidas soon enough. Just bought a new pair of Adidas golf shoes. Going back tomorrow.

KU not playing Preston makes me feel pretty good, tbh.

HighEliteMajor said:

Just bought a new pair of Adidas golf shoes. Going back tomorrow.

That will be a fun convo.

@HighEliteMajor sadly I just bought a pair of Adidas shoes Saturday, I think I’ll stick to new balance til this crud is worked out.

@kjayhawks I'm going to have a ceremony where I burn mine. Way too late to return.

@BShark I’m sure Nike is just as guilty, I’m sure they will get away with it having Coach K like they always do.

It would be fair to limit vacating victories to schools that know, but Camby accepted $28,000 and lots of other gifts from two agents, Howard Porter signed a pro contract mid-year, and Rose was found to have had someone else take his college boards. All three schools had their F4s vacated, and UMass had to pay back all the NCAA tourney money (I assume the others did, too).

Now, the first two seem to have occurred after the players had already been in school for a couple years, so maybe that was deemed under the school's supervision, but Rose was not in school yet at the time of the event and the NCAA had already cleared him for play.

The allegations involving KU players are scary to me because they involve inducements to attend KU. That seems a more reasonable basis to include the school that benefitted from those inducements in sanctions.

Do they make you take down your banners? Do they make you stop printing back-2-back-2-back-2-back etc. t-shirts?

@mayjay Are they going to sanction everyone? Schools could just tell the NCAA to pound sand.

@chriz I think they actually do make you take down the banners under the "full compliance" with any sanctions standard. I.e., if you don't take it down you are not "accepting" the sanction of vacating the celebrated appearance.

See also: Duke and Corey Maggette.

@BShark I hate to say it, but that statement proves nothing I think. I mean a communication from the KU athletic department saying we're victims just doesn't sound real convincing. That's not to say we really are victims in this, but it just sounds funny. I wish the statement was from whoever named KU in this accusation.

@wissox I didn't say the statement proved anything. Just posted it because KU put out a statement. KU was named as a victim in the release though, fwiw. Take from that what you will.

If Billy's mom took the money, it took some huge amount of chutzpah for her to bitch about the investigation like she did!

mayjay said:

If Billy's mom took the money, it took some huge amount of chutzpah for her to bitch about the investigation like she did!

She did, don't really think it can be disputed. And she's completely crazy.

@BShark How do you know Billy's mom took money?

@BShark The entire indictment claims all universities are the victims, not just KU. This is the first I’ve seen where no university employees supposedly knew, like an assistant coach.

@wissox I read the indictment. I mean I guess there is a non-zero (like 0.000000000001) chance that she didn't but I have a hard time seeing it any other way.

HighEliteMajor said:

@BShark The entire indictment claims all universities are the victims, not just KU. This is the first I’ve seen where no university employees supposedly knew, like an assistant coach.

Fair point. The verbage in the release did at least say that it was done w/o KU's knowledge.

You notice who’s not mentioned in all
Of this? New Balance. Maybe the would like to get some 990s hoop style in the college game.

Also If Silvio is not an amateur, I assume we vacate wins.....

It doesn’t matter if the school knows or not.

Better check these top recruits we are getting this year. seems odd we are getting a medium stack out of nonehere.

Also batestradamus has been talking about petro shoe company for a very long time.

@BShark The article I read says it doesn't name specific players.

Well, if our latest F4 gets vacated, we can possibly use USC's clever ploy by no longer counting the loss to Villanova because of it being vacated. They used the Reggie Bush sanctions to claim that their 2006 bowl game loss to Texas was vacated, magically re-making them undefeated by the Longhorns!

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/usc-texas-bcs-rose-bowl-game-2006-vacated-loss-college-football ↗

So, see? Wright doesn't have Bill's number as much as we thought.

@BShark Which makes me question the total indictment — if University actors knew, how is the university a victim? Or where does it become relevant how much the university knew? And who is the university? The case seems to want to disassociate the university from it chosen representatives. Of course, the entire deal rides on the concept that a player is ineligible because of internal rules. Just a sham case anyway.

wissox said:

@BShark The article I read says it doesn't name specific players.

Yeah but it's super obvious who the players involved are. You just have to piece it together.

Even ESPN managed that.

HighEliteMajor said:

@BShark Which makes me question the total indictment — if University actors knew, how is the university a victim? Or where does it become relevant how much the university knew? And who is the university? The case seems to want to disassociate the university from it chosen representatives. Of course, the entire deal rides on the concept that a player is ineligible because of internal rules. Just a sham case anyway.

Yeah, it's a complete joke.

I read the entire release and KU is mentioned as a victim and not as a perpetrator of any crime; in fact, KU is cited as having extra forms that parents/guardians must sign certifying the individual is in compliance with NCAA rules and regulations.

The Billy Preston deal should not affect KU at all since he did not play any official games. Silvio’s situation is a little more complicated since a guardian apparently took money to repay another shoe company that had already paid him to go somewhere (Under Armour, Maryland) but he wanted to go to KU, which would appear to indicate Silvio was not involved and did not benefit from it. Also, Silvio was cleared by the NCAA long after the FBI investigation had started, so KU appears to be on solid ground.

Having said that, I still think it is a huge overreach by the FBI to get involved to prosecute people that conspired to bypass rules of a private, non-government agency. Using the fact that the school receive federal funds seems pretty lame since the Athletic Department is funded mostly by private donations and not federal money. This seems to be a case better suited to Civil Court and maybe the IRS can get involved if the money was nor declared and taxes not paid, but the FBI acting as an enforcer of rules for a private, non-government agency seems like a waste of resources...just my opinion and I could be wrong.

@Kcmatt7 she wont be in trouble because hes in the nba now. Ku on the other hand could be

Gary Parrish is just salivating.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/will-it-be-the-fbi-as-opposed-to-texas-or-oklahoma-that-ends-kansas-streak-of-14-straight-big-12-titles/ ↗

kjayhawks said:

I’m fairly worried at this point that the 2018 season could easily be vacated, at least the wins that Silvio played in. Interesting enough a source I trusted today told me before this news broke that KU maybe headed away from Adidas very very soon. I would be shocked at this point if stuff isn’t vacated, hopefully they have stuff on some Nike schools like Dook or we could be headed down real quick.

KU didn't sign their latest contract with them. Would certainly point to them looking at other options

Blown said:

Also If Silvio is not an amateur, I assume we vacate wins.....

It doesn’t matter if the school knows or not.

Better check these top recruits we are getting this year. seems odd we are getting a medium stack out of nonehere.

Also batestradamus has been talking about petro shoe company for a very long time.

They checked him, the NCAA checked. They cleared him.

Gorilla72 said:

Gary Parrish is just salivating.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/will-it-be-the-fbi-as-opposed-to-texas-or-oklahoma-that-ends-kansas-streak-of-14-straight-big-12-titles/ ↗

LOL our favorite troll back to business

@BeddieKU23 wow. Gary Parrish sure can fill up a page with fecal scrapings can't he?

That's the final straw- we're just going to have to declare Silvio's guardian ineligible,and be done with it. Goodbye, Silvio's guardian...we hardly knew ye.

approxinfinity said:

@BeddieKU23 wow. Gary Parrish sure can fill up a page with fecal scrapings can't he?

I'm waiting for the featured story with him and Elpoyo anyday now.

ReggieKansas said:

@Kcmatt7 she wont be in trouble because hes in the nba now. Ku on the other hand could be

The most troubling part of this to me is that KU's name is involved at all. You don't have to search too far to find less then amusing headlines aimed to make the casual person believe KU is involved. I'm certain this isn't the last we hear of things

BeddieKU23 said:

Blown said:

Also If Silvio is not an amateur, I assume we vacate wins.....

It doesn’t matter if the school knows or not.

Better check these top recruits we are getting this year. seems odd we are getting a medium stack out of nonehere.

Also batestradamus has been talking about petro shoe company for a very long time.

They checked him, the NCAA checked. They cleared him.

Exactly my earlier point.

Not even clicking that trash from Parrish.

I hate that we may be forced to place our hopes of retaining the 14th consecutive Big 12 Conference Championship and Final Four appearance on the Cam Newton NCAA precedent. It's a sad, sad day for KU Basketball. Would someone please name De Sousa's guardian, so I have someone besides Adidas to despise?

BeddieKU23 said:

ReggieKansas said:

@Kcmatt7 she wont be in trouble because hes in the nba now. Ku on the other hand could be

The most troubling part of this to me is that KU's name is involved at all. You don't have to search too far to find less then amusing headlines aimed to make the casual person believe KU is involved. I'm certain this isn't the last we hear of things

Yeah this might be the worst part about it for now.

Also I wouldn't count on elpoyo posts any time soon. :P

@approxinfinity I don't see anything wrong with that article. He covered exactly the same concern dozens of Board rats have expressed since last fall's indictments (would the addidas case roll to KU?), and our worries about the implications for KU if yesterday's indictment leads to NCAA sanctions (SDS ineligible? vacating F4 & victories? end to the Streak?). And, we may not like it, but nationally there has been suspicion about KU that, yes, the indictment appears to confirm if true.
He actually didn't get into the Billy side of things, which surprised me after reading your comment.

Exactly what do you find objectionable from a writer not writing for KU fans?

The report called us victims, right? That is HUGE. They feel sorry for us. I think we'll be fine. When the FBI lists you as a victim, I don't see the NCAA coming after us over it, other than punishing De Sousa IF they can prove he knew about it, and gained from it. We're a long way from Death Row, and we didn't hire strippers for our recruits, so I think we will be fine.

I have a tough time finding real victims in this other than the IRS not getting their tax money lol.

@mayjay two reasons:

1.

When is Kansas finally going to get looped into the FBI investigation?

Finally? Really? There is a gleeful presumption of guilt here that is amateurish and nauseating.

2.

If the NCAA can eventually prove that De Sousa's guardian was indeed paid $20,000 (at least) to enroll De Sousa at Kansas, which is what the indictment alleges, the Jayhawks will likely be forced to vacate their 2018 Big 12 title and appearance in the 2018 Final Four.

Likely? How about possibly? Again, he is hopelessly incapable of or unwilling to leave his own bias out of the article.

He's a clown.

@KUSTEVE Remember, unfortunately the "victim" status is based on people defrauding KU into believing the players retained eligibility. If we were victimized, by implication the players were not eligible, and that always leads to sanctions against a program. Even harsher sanctions get imposed if there is a finding that our not knowing was due to lack of adequate control or inquiry (but the cautious handling of Billy would suggest we were diligent when a red flag appeared).

@mayjay Cliff situation too.

@approxinfinity 1. He based that on the fact that the fall indictments were all about addidas funneling money to players and/or families, and we are addidas' flagship program. Did you miss all the posts here that discussed the same fears?

And 2. If any participating players were ineligible, yes, there will be sanctions, and, yes, there will be vacating of victories and F4, and return of tourney money.

Can you recall any instances where a team did not face sanctions where so much money was involved involving a player participating in a number of the team's games, especially throughout the tournament?

Everyone thinking we won't face sanctions is forgetting that the inducements here were to go to KU, not just get an "in" with the family a la Cliff. I think it unfathomable that the NCAA could ever let that go, lest schools continually cry "We didn't know!" while reaping the benefits of ineligible player participation.

The best thing that could happen for KU would be for the defendants to plead guilty in a deal that leaves the documents sealed so the NCAA has nothing to go on.

@mayjay Auburn, Cam Newton.

@mayjay The NCAA is a powerless joke.

If KU played an ineligible player (Silvio) should the wins be vacated?

If Kentucky played an ineligible Davis should their title be vacated? The games were played and outcomes determined by the players, but what if some of the players shouldn’t have been playing? Even a roll player, like Silvio?

This whole deal sucks. Dammit Adidas.

BShark said:

@mayjay The NCAA is a powerless joke.

What power would you like it to have? They basically make sure college athletic departments playing in their sports are not cheating.

If a player takes shoe money outside of the college what do you want the NCAA to do? Should they have FBI like power?

If a school(UNC) creates easy classes that ANY student can take and basically cheapens their institute of learning what power should the NCAA have?

Everyone blames the NCAA and bad mouths them. How about these punk kids who think they are pros go put their skills on the real free market and go to Europe and play for a year. Go cry to the NBA about not being able to try out for a year after graduation. It isnt the NCAAs fault you cant get paid.

@BShark The Cam case might seem to be an outlier, but the money sought by his dad was from Miss State, and he never went there. Auburn had a good case that Cam did not participate in any discussions, and that his father was not authorized as his agent. We all suspected that it was unlikely Daddyo steered Cam to Auburn without a similar incentive, but there was no evidence.

And a big difference (true for Cliff, too): the NCAA investigation was not instigated by a criminal indictment backed by FBI subpoena power.

@BigBad It is not their fault that the players face the OAD rule, but it is their rule that the players cannot get paid (by anyone other than the school, and not beyond the schollie and "cost of attendance" stipend).

But the member schools created it, and if they don't like it they can get rid of either the NCAA or its rules. I would make a strong guess that most schools, over 250 of whom are from non-power 5 conferences in Div 1, are happy with the restrictions facing the powers in recruiting and player benefits. And further, that they would be really unhappy if the NCAA were to not sanction ineligibility just because of a fear that the practice is widespread.

I can’t wait on the football findings, It would make the basketball stuff seem like small potatoes.

chriz said:

Do they make you take down your banners? Do they make you stop printing back-2-back-2-back-2-back etc. t-shirts?

In researching the USC case (my post about vacating their loss to Texas in 2006) the article stated that the USC media guide was required to include the info about their 2004 championship being vacated. I don't know the context, but I would speculate that schools can mention their successes but must include any info about sanctions vacating those.

We could see, perhaps, if Villanova, Michigan, UMass, Memphis, or Louisville have banners with an asterisk.

T-shirts? Interesting problem: can they prevent the sanctioned schools from licensing copyrighted and trademarked logos and slogans (e.g., Rock Chalk, KU, University of Kansas, Jayhawks)?

@mayjay

Isn't NC St probably scared out of their britches more? The Indictment indicates a coach on the staff passed along the money to Dennis Smith Jr? Not that they have a Final 4 to be worried about but that certainly seems more troubling? No?

What do you make of the allegations involving coaches that happened in the first round of this in relation now to these reports.

How is a school or the NCAA for that matter supposed to vet something that was explicitly concealed from them. It took the FBI to find this out. Are we going to be victims and punished for not knowing, or having the ability to be the FBI before admitting Silvio?

BeddieKU23 said:

@mayjay

Are we going to be victims and punished for not knowing, or having the ability to be the FBI before admitting Silvio?

The NCAA cleared him. Unless coaches or university knew he got paid we cant be held accountable.

Why don’t we have boosters give all the Duke and Kentucky guys $20K apiece and make them ineligible (if that’s how the findings go)? Recruiting espionage.

I will say that all previous cases, the athlete was caught by the NCAA. With no real way to prove that the school or a coach wasn't directly involved or aware.

This case may very well be different because the FBI has came out and declared that KU had no knowledge of either situation. KU has proven as well that they will go to great lengths to not play someone when they do have knowledge. To punish our program because of Silvio would shock me. Especially if he is ruled eligible to play this next year. If Quinerley and Nas Little can get cleared to play, Silvio will as well, and at that point there would be no vacating of wins. I'll be surprised to see us vacate anything.

dylans said:

Why don’t we have boosters give all the Duke and Kentucky guys $20K apiece and make them ineligible (if that’s how the findings go)? Recruiting espionage.

Funny you bring this up....

How hard would it be to be a fake source ala Sean Miller? What if the alleged tape of him is a complete fabrication by Adidas to f with a nike school? Arizona is dead now.

🐦 View Tweet

Interesting......

@BigBad Yea that's the solution to the problem... :rolling_eyes:

Kcmatt7 said:

I will say that all previous cases, the athlete was caught by the NCAA. With no real way to prove that the school or a coach wasn't directly involved or aware.

This case may very well be different because the FBI has came out and declared that KU had no knowledge of either situation. KU has proven as well that they will go to great lengths to not play someone when they do have knowledge. To punish our program because of Silvio would shock me. Especially if he is ruled eligible to play this next year. If Quinerley and Nas Little can get cleared to play, Silvio will as well, and at that point there would be no vacating of wins. I'll be surprised to see us vacate anything.

This is where I'm at with it.

@Kcmatt7 You know what I'm sick of? The soft bigotry of low expectations. I'm sick of the media and fans bad mouthing the value of an education. I'm sick of these players going to 2 plus years of college and not being able to speak proper English. You hear coaches talk about holding them accountable on the court, well how about in the classroom? How about teaching these kids REAL life lessons that most if not all of them are not going to make enough money from basketball to provide for themselves until they die at 85. The idea that you get a valuable degree first to set yourself up, then if you are good enough, playing pro ball as a bonus is gone. Whats even sicker is a lot of these kids have parents who teach them to grab the first pile of dough they can and dont worry about the future.

College basketball is becoming gross. I need a break.

Did our coaches know that Preston was driving around in a car he couldn't afford?

It seems like if he didn't have the little accident, Preston would have played all year and nothing mentioned of the car.

BigBad said:

@Kcmatt7 You know what I'm sick of? The soft bigotry of low expectations. I'm sick of the media and fans bad mouthing the value of an education. I'm sick of these players going to 2 plus years of college and not being able to speak proper English. You hear coaches talk about holding them accountable on the court, well how about in the classroom? How about teaching these kids REAL life lessons that most if not all of them are not going to make enough money from basketball to provide for themselves until they die at 85. The idea that you get a valuable degree first to set yourself up, then if you are good enough, playing pro ball as a bonus is gone. Whats even sicker is a lot of these kids have parents who teach them to grab the first pile of dough they can and dont worry about the future.

College basketball is becoming gross. I need a break.

Are you 80 years old?

Completely disagree with this take except the last bit about the parents. Most of the kids are majoring in basketball, no need to be delusional about why they are there. Kids like Mitch are the exception at major programs.

drgnslayr said:

Did our coaches know that Preston was driving around in a car he couldn't afford?

It seems like if he didn't have the little accident, Preston would have played all year and nothing mentioned of the car.

lol

drgnslayr said:

Did our coaches know that Preston was driving around in a car he couldn't afford?

It seems like if he didn't have the little accident, Preston would have played all year and nothing mentioned of the car.

It's a good thing he stubbed his toe (i mean tire) then.

What would have been worse is KU not investigating the car after the incident and ignoring the flags right there. We have to feel pretty good now that KU will always put its program above a single player in that regard.

I wasn't able to read all 140 posts. Obviously if Billy Preston is involved, and it was known (due to him being suspended) that he accepted money, I find it hard to believe Self would be naive about this happening to others on his team, given that he's been around the block a time or two before. I'll argue he may not have done enough to stop this systemic (perhaps 3 players already identified over the course of the last few years) influence of agents within the program. He may not have known anything directly, so can take the stance of a victim, thankfully.

@BigBad Oh your argument is beyond tired.

@Kcmatt7 What is my argument that is so tired?

Does anyone still actually think college basketball is amateur athletics?

@KUSTEVE Ya your right we didn't. - I need to talk to Coach about that - -I love me some strippers lmao - I mean JUMPIN - - GEE - -HOSSA - -FATS - I bet Granny would be really mad though. - -sorry bud - poor timing on trying to put some humor on this - but if I don't I sit and think and try and over analyze this and just get super P- - - - - - so I went to my happy place - - thus - -Strippers lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@approxinfinity Clown is putting it mildly. - he is an absolute joke. - The indictment says the University is a Victim - nobody knew about this going on - The University - -The Coach Or Staff is not connected with this in anyway - Now Silvio guardian? - different story - and I'm not so sure about Silvio not knowing anything about this - hope I'm wrong - I'm afraid we have seen the last of Silvio on the floor and that sucks

As everyone knows I do my trolling other boards but NOT TODAY I don't even begin to want to check UK fan boards - -they like Parrish assuming a lot - an hoping - HATERS HATE- people like him just sit back and wait like a Vulture for anything bad at KU to happen. - as do the UK idiots

@HighEliteMajor Maybe you had best wear your old worn out golf shoes until all this Big Shoe mess is unveiled. If you plan to buy some Nikes, talk to the store manager to see if an agreement can be made to return fairly new but worn Nikes, just in case that noble outfit goes down, too. Heck, KU might even be a Nike school in the not too distant future. Or perhaps the University will go with Red Wing!

@mayjay The games would be stripped of would only be the games he played in and not all tourney money would be foreited

@BShark THANK YOU ! ! ! ! !

So what are you guys saying? F it pay them? Do you think Self and co. should be involved? Is this where we are?

@BigBad Well in one aspect of it they already are being paid. - - How? - by getting that full ride schlorship , now fully understand that this is renewable every year as it can be taken but ya their paid that way. Think if it hasn't already in place that they do receive a small amount for living expense - could be totally off but thought I had heard that some where - but was being tossed around about the possibility of getting more - Different ways of getting quote unquote being paid

Also the "poor inner city kid" the media always uses as an excuse to pay them are all eligible for a Pell Grant. So they have room, board, tuition, food, a stipend, and a pell grant. Poor guys. I dont know how they survive being so exploited. Oh and on top of that if they end up sucking they can get an education that at least makes them employable and a network of alumni that always helps ex-athletes.

@BShark no need to get personal, we've got people of all ages here, 80 is just a number.

@BigBad I'm not going to repost my entire response from another thread. But if it bothers you enough, don't watch it. Simple problem.

If you think the Universities are getting used by these kids, especially the OADs, you have it completely backwards and there is no convincing you otherwise. Put in the same shoes as those kids, you would be making the exact same decision and I guarantee it.

The money isn't the same as it was in the 90s. The sport has exploded and salaries have nearly quadrupled, completely outperforming inflation. You could earn enough money playing for 5 years at league minimum now to live comfortably the rest of your life. And some of these guys only have 5 good years in them. Wasting 3 of them in college doesn't make sense.

There is clearly a market for these players. That's really all that needs to be said.

If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn't have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.

Kcmatt7 said:

If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn't have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.

Agree.

Also that the rules apply to only athletes is part of what makes it so stupid. There is nothing stopping a music major from performing a concert and making money off that.

@mayjay

A few salient points to consider.

First, KU is listed as a victim which at first sight would indicate lack of culpability or perhaps it is the FBI’s way if saying we will call KU a victim until we can prove someone in the programs was involved.

Second, the indictment mentions that KU has additional steps in place to insure accountability by parents and/or guardians which go beyond what the NCAA requires.

Third, KU chose not to play Preston even when he was at the time officially cleared by the NCAA which would indicate an abundance of caution.

Fourth, Silvio and/or guardian were not paid to come to KU. Apparently Under Armour paid his guardian to go to Maryland and the Adidas money was used to repay Under Armour so he could go to KU which is whe he wanted to go in the first place and for no pay.

All the above show lack of intent or knowledge by KU despite the steps in place to ensure compliance which bides well for KU, particularly if no one in the program is proven to be involved. Now, if someone connected to the program was involved or aware it changes everything.

Billy Prestons mom only had to wait months!🤬 go to the G league, overseas, get a job, don't ruin our program for 💰. Do the the Mitchell Robinson route. Seems to me billy was enjoying his time at KU, I blame his moms. Go ride the bus in the g league and eat sack lunches and play in little gyms w/ zero fans. Do it! Does KU have any legal recourse on the people that sign those papers illegally? I'd be surprised if Silvio knew anything about that exchange. Jmo

Hmmm ... how about if a recruit takes $50,000 from UA to go to Maryland. Tells them to stick it. Goes to KU. Keeps the money. What is UA going to do about it? Maybe that's where Guido comes in.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/apr/10/bill-self-responds-allegations-federal-indictment-/#comments ↗

Bills response last night. Nothing big other than he doesn't think himself or a coach will be named.

Yeah I really don't see how Silvio knew about it, because it sure reads like he put a wrench in the plan by wanting to go to Kansas.

No idea on Billy, but we all pretty much read the bad vibes coming from his mom from the jump.

REHawk said:

Heck, KU might even be a Nike school in the not too distant future. Or perhaps the University will go with Red Wing!

I think it's high time Zips makes a play for the college athletic market. Or maybe Kangaroos.

Kcmatt7 said:

If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn't have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.

Even if the NCAA allowed it how do you resolve the kid wearing NIKE at an Adidas school with Adidas jerseys? Not against it but it would be interesting.

Oh and BTW I'm only 44 not 80.... LOL

Sorry for getting a little chippy earlier btw.

@BigBad The structure of shoe deals with the universities would have to change.

@Kcmatt7 Don't fool yourself. I think that this is a common mistake. We think if we give a mouse a piece of cheese each day, he'll be good. He won't raid our pantry. Then we give him two pieces of cheese, that will suffice. The fact is the pursuit of money is never ending. Folks will lie, cheat, steal, and demand more money, no matter how much they get. Athletes feel aggrieved in the NFL signing a one year franchise tag of $18 million, guaranteed -- money that, alone, sets them for life.

So if you think that if we'd, "just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn’t have an issue", I think you are sadly mistaken. This is just not the way of the world. And I use the word "sadly" because it is a bit sad.

People always want more, and there will always be voices demanding more. And in their minds, they will always justify the rule breaking because "they deserve it."

Doing anything more for the players is not a panacea, it is a curse.

The only cure here is competition. This will allow the NCAA to find a tighter niche. It would be much better if there was a league with real pay, as a better option.

I guess my frustration is that folks want to change NCAA rules to fit their agenda. The college game, as is, is more attractive than the alternatives. That escapes most. That's why they play NCAA ball. An inescapable free market fact.

@BigBad They do it now in the NBA. The jerseys are Nike but shoes don't matter. I think it would be an easy restructure honestly. It would end up evening out. Nike would pay some Adidas kids and Adidas would pay some Nike kids and before you knew it, you wouldn't even think about what shoes kids were wearing.

Any Chance the NCAA would throw KU's shoe deal at them as reason to hold them accountable for this?

@HighEliteMajor They are getting money for those endorsements one way or another and it is ignorant to think otherwise. Right now, it is just behind closed doors, and the NCAA is obviously accepting of it or else Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, Collin Sexton, etc. wouldn't have finished the season. It only makes sense to change the rules, if nobody is following them anyways.

It is more like the reason that they just upped the speed limit on Hwy 71. Nobody was following the speed limit anyways, so it was more dangerous for those traveling on it at the speed limit.

This was happening already. Because this was happening already, we now have people potentially going to prison for a crime that most would consider victimless.

Plain and simple, it is no longer a rule if nobody abides by it and you don't enforce it.

@HighEliteMajor Again, you want players to stay here for 4 years, yet you don't want to offer them any reason to pick college over the pros.

It is a contradicting idea. You literally can't have it both ways.

Anyone who thinks playing players for their services probably will end corruption in NCAA sports probably doesn't understand human nature very well. The shoe dudes, agents, boosters, random overzealous fans are still going to want to be influencers in where whomever goes to college.

We'll find out that some kids are getting paid more than other kids, some schools will figure out how to pay more than other schools and athletes will still have to make decisions to walk with integrity.

@Crimsonorblue22 I would prefer she go find a one-way ticket for a long bus ride in Dumbshitistan, or wherever he played his 2 games overseas.

@JayHawkFanToo Your 4th item simplifies to "addidas money was used to allow him to go to KU", doesn't it? That still means it was an inducement.

@BigBad Well, maybe they would have to stop letting the schools get paid for making kids wear (read: endorse) products they don't want to use. Are you okay that currently the school gets paid literally millions to endorse a product while the person whose name and image are publicicized with that product gets nothing he wouldn't get anyway?

@mayjay how much did he get for that plus his share of, did his mom cut him in or not?

@Crimsonorblue22 Ay, there's the rub.

I always wonder how the teammates feel when players get caught and vacating wins is a sanction, voiding all their hard work. I would be really po'ed if I were clean and some selfish SOB cost me my ability to point to my career with pride.

mayjay said:

@JayHawkFanToo Your 4th item simplifies to "addidas money was used to allow him to go to KU", doesn't it? That still means it was an inducement.

Not quite. Apparently Silvio wanted to go to KU in the first place for no pay but his guardian had other plans. Silvio could have gone to KU anyway and his guardian would have been in trouble with the Under Armour “collectors,” so Silvio personally had no say in the Under Armor decision and did not get paid by Adidas.

Moving forward, schools need to be extra careful with all these “guardians of African player since it appears they do it for the money and not necessarily from the goodness of their mercenary hearts.

@JayHawkFanToo Do you think the enforcers would have targeted the guardian only? Interesting twist. But bottom line, "I didn't know my guardian took a second batch of money from addidas to pay back the first from someone else so I could go to addidas school KU" is not very convincing against a presumption of ineligibility.

I could be wrong, of course, but I see a lot more wishful thinking going on here today than compelling arguments.

@wissox Anyone who thinks NOT paying players for their services is still a good idea doesn't understand human nature very well.

Even if it continues to be "illegal," it will still happen because it has happened since sports were invented and the NCAA was established. So instead of being a stubborn old fool, the NCAA should find a better way to regulate these payments out in the open so that men never have to go to jail over something this stupid ever again.

If something is happening when it is illegal and still accepted by society, it is NEVER going to stop. Once you accept that, then you can solve the problem and begin to regulate what is happening instead. That is what I understand about human nature. Apparently you do not.

Playing players is a huge mountain of an issue. We view it from the comfy couch of a blue blood. But take a school like Southern University of the SWAC where we used to live in Baton Rouge. Watch the highlights and see 500 people in the stands. Drive around the crumbling decaying campus and it's hard to imagine them coming up with the money to pay players. And I would guess that the majority of DI schools play in front of nearly empty arenas too, meaning they have to find a way to pay players.

Where does it end? Do we pay rowers too? Gymnasts? Swimmers? Soccer players? They put in vast amounts of time for practice, travel and whatever else goes with it. If the football player down the hall in their dorm is getting pay for play, they would feel entitled to it as well.

Kcmatt7 said:

@wissox Anyone who thinks NOT paying players for their services is still a good idea doesn't understand human nature very well.

There are other options for that. Why must the NCAA change their model? 99% of NCAA basketball players are worth ZERO in a free market of professional basketball players.

wissox said:

Where does it end? Do we pay rowers too? Gymnasts? Swimmers? Soccer players? They put in vast amounts of time for practice, travel and whatever else goes with it. If the football player down the hall in their dorm is getting pay for play, they would feel entitled to it as well.

How would Title IX play into this? Oh you are paying basketball players? Well you have to pay the female golfers the same amount...LOL

BucknellJayhawk3 said:

"I wasn't able to read all 140 posts."

You weren't ABLE - or more likely, you weren't committed to it. Why don't you tell the truth once in a while? I'll tell you why:

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

Sorry, all in jest - saw the "Bucknell" thing and had flashbacks. Deep breath. All better now.

@wissox THE SCHOOLS DO NOT PAY THE PLAYERS. THE PLAYERS FETCH ENDORSEMENTS ON AN OPEN MARKET.

If a rower can get someone to pay them for rowing, by God, let them get paid.

@BigBad I firmly believe that the schools are paying the players plenty in free education and infrastructure. And that is fair across the board for all sports and athletes in college.

But the top recruits could easily be fetching $100k+ from endorsements every year while in school. How do I know this? Because they are literally getting that right now even while it is against the rules. Allowing them to get endorsements based on an open market takes title IX right out of the window. It isn't gender based, it is what the market is willing to pay for a player.

Stifling those players abilities to earn has created a strange legal issue that could be fixed if we just let players fetch endorsements. Again, the school would not pay one single penny more. The open and free market would dictate what players got paid and what players didn't. It's that simple.

I live in Ohio. I know maybe 3 people who could name a player on Kansas team this year before the final four. I cant believe the money that is out there for them. Crazy

mayjay said:

@BigBad Well, maybe they would have to stop letting the schools get paid for making kids wear (read: endorse) products they don't want to use. Are you okay that currently the school gets paid literally millions to endorse a product while the person whose name and image are publicicized with that product gets nothing he wouldn't get anyway?

Not quite. I don’t believe anyone thinks that players wearing a certain brand of sports gear constitutes an endorsement; they wear it because that is the uniform the school provides to them. Even the schools don’t really “endorse” the product, they provide mostly exposure.

Now, student athletes know exactly what they will or will not get or be allowed to do or not do when they agree to play for a program and in return they get a full ride, luxurious accommodations, meals specially prepared for them by sports dietitians, the best coaches and trainers, state of the art facilities, a monthly stipend and national exposure. Seems like a pretty good deal to me and this is why every up and coming player aspires to play for a program like KU.

The option is to play in the G League or overseas for a low salary, sharing an apartment with a couple of other players, taking bus rides to the next game and playing before a couple of hundred fans. They can endorse anything they want from shoes to dog food. Nobody forces them to go to college, obviously they do it because they believe is the best deal for them.

JayHawkFanToo said:

Nobody forces them to go to college, obviously they do it because they believe is the best deal for them.

There is a trend nowadays to constantly show how EVERYONE is somehow a victim and being exploited.

mayjay said:

@JayHawkFanToo Do you think the enforcers would have targeted the guardian only? Interesting twist. But bottom line, "I didn't know my guardian took a second batch of money from addidas to pay back the first from someone else so I could go to addidas school KU" is not very convincing against a presumption of ineligibility.

I could be wrong, of course, but I see a lot more wishful thinking going on here today than compelling arguments.

It really sounds like Silvio did not know of the Under Armour deal and when he decided to come to KU it threw a monkey wrench on the guardian’s plans. I believe the Cam Newton defense would apply in this case.

BTW, non enforcer would mess with the athlete, particularly since he apparently was not even part of the deal. The last thing they need is publicity.

@JayHawkFanToo maybe on the guardian. Could have pocketed the cash.

@Crimsonorblue22

It is possible the guardian conned both Under Armour and Adidas.

@JayHawkFanToo I don't see how a case (that involves a kid who went to a different school than the one who paid his dad) provides a defense in a case like this (where the money paid to the guardian was paid by a company with the specific intent to steer him where he actually went).

@mayjay

Like I said, if the kid was not involved and he ended up going to a school other than that negotiated by the guardian, then the Cam Newton defense kicks in.

@Kcmatt7 I appreciate your passion. I am not tied to players staying four years. I don't like OADs.

But here's what's important. I want players that want to play in college. I am all for competition.

Further, I don't think you have to pay players to entice them to come. If you do, then they should choose something else if they want to get paid.

The concern I see above with universities getting paid for their players is off base. What company or entity does not make money off those that perform services for them? It's a red-herring.

Further, if the value of a college player's services is what the market will bear, right? Where is the market? It certainly isn't restricted.

See, what you and others want is for a private organization to change its rules to accommodate the desires of a few. Instead of competing, folks want to change an entities rules and make them something they aren't. See, the NCAA works great for most every athlete.

The market is there and open to be exploited. Start a league. Pay the players. Let them get endorsements. But if it was there, wouldn't someone have done it by now?

Ah, but that's the tricky part isn't it -- the players derive most all of their value from the stage that the NCAA provides. That's right, the universities have the facilities, the tourney, the TV contract, the national exposure, the marketing, the brands, right? Without it, there's nothing.

Thus is why the players just don't sign with UA, or Nike, or Adidas out of high school, or go sign autographs, or whatever, and skip college.

@HighEliteMajor

Exactly.

@JayHawkFanToo for some reason I don't think he did.🤔

@BShark

Hell yeah, Silvio plays. This is pure bull crap. Its a damn conspiracy. Its ridiculous. I havent heard as much as a peep from the NCAA on these other issues. The NCAA says these are merely FBI investigations and they wont act.

What happened to Zona? Nothing from the NCAA. This is more about the shoe companies, not the players. NCAA will not touch schools or players.

Any school who recruits the top end guys will be tainted at some point.
Cal and UK are Trump and any slip up is front news and repeated over and over. K and Duke are Obama and any slip up gets buried. Go look at the Marvin Bagley situation.

Too much to backread in this topic with how this board loads. That's really my only complaint with this forum software.

“Your first reaction is being upset. You work hard for something. You sacrifice so much. I know Silvio’s family, where she (De Sousa's mom) lives. If you saw where she lived right now (Angola), that article would really make you upset because he is going through what he is going through to pursue his dreams and take care of his family, take care of his mom. He is doing it the right way. For people to take that away from him and away from me, it is crazy.” Of KU, Falmagne said: “Coach Self is not about that (paying players). That is one of the things I really appreciate about him. He is, like ‘Coaches are gonna offer you this. What I'm going to say is I am not going to jeopardize my livelihood for that. I can guarantee you if he really wants to be an NBA player, I can make him NBA. It’s going to take a lot of work from him, but I can get him there. That’s when his reward is going to come. Right now is not the time for it.’ I was like, ‘Wow, Coach Brown was right about this guy.' That’s when we went over there (to visit KU).’’’

I recall Preston's mom reacting to certain things with a good dose of indignation as well, but I could be wrong ...

So did he take the UA money as alleged? I wonder if money was sent to Angola? I speculate on wire transfers. Prosecutors love those.

@BShark Wow, hard work and time put in equal success? That's a hard sell these days.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 I appreciate your passion. I am not tied to players staying four years. I don't like OADs.

But here's what's important. I want players that want to play in college. I am all for competition.

Further, I don't think you have to pay players to entice them to come. If you do, then they should choose something else if they want to get paid.

The concern I see above with universities getting paid for their players is off base. What company or entity does not make money off those that perform services for them? It's a red-herring.

Further, if the value of a college player's services is what the market will bear, right? Where is the market? It certainly isn't restricted.

See, what you and others want is for a private organization to change its rules to accommodate the desires of a few. Instead of competing, folks want to change an entities rules and make them something they aren't. See, the NCAA works great for most every athlete.

The market is there and open to be exploited. Start a league. Pay the players. Let them get endorsements. But if it was there, wouldn't someone have done it by now?

Ah, but that's the tricky part isn't it -- the players derive most all of their value from the stage that the NCAA provides. That's right, the universities have the facilities, the tourney, the TV contract, the national exposure, the marketing, the brands, right? Without it, there's nothing.

Thus is why the players just don't sign with UA, or Nike, or Adidas out of high school, or go sign autographs, or whatever, and skip college.

But you are ignoring the fact that they ARE getting paid with endorsements right this second. Ignoring that Nike and Adidas are never going to stop finding ways to pay players to attend certain schools or involve themselves in basketball. I do not think the NCAA should pay players. Or the Universities should pay players. I just do not think that they should restrict players earnings.

Why do you think they should restrict players earnings? How would that change the already screwed up landscape of College Basketball and College Basketball recruiting? How would it change KU basketball? What would it do?

Why continue the song and dance? Instead of players taking dirty money and the NCAA looking the other way full well knowing it is happening, why not just accept it and regulate it.

Your argument is, "its free market," and that is it and if the players don't like it, go somewhere else. I mean you are basically just opposing something just to oppose it if you can't tell me simply, why you think the NCAA should not let players fetch endorsements when it would cost the NCAA and its member schools absolutely nothing or, more likely, it would save everyone millions from the reduced compliance and investigating that would need to take place.

These rules were made to only apply to the small number of athletes in the first place. So saying a rule works for the large majority of athletes when it wasn't created for them in the first place is not actually digging into the problem.

You are basically saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Except it is broke, and now you are really saying "well it still kind of works and we don't really want to fix it, so just leave it how it is." What happens something comes around that actually does work, effectively ends CBB, and all we had to do was change a simple rule that was created for and only effected a small number of athletes? I love CBB and don't want to see it go away. But not being proactive about these types of things is exactly how you see large companies go out of business all the time.

@Kcmatt7 I'm not saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Really, I'm saying competition would be good. Competition would allow CBB to be more clearly in one lane. I do appreciate that endorsements are your focus. I think your approach is the same as many folks, with many issues -- make it legal and then regulate or profit from it (taxes).

I have told you in bold exactly why players should not fetch endorsement money. It is not their right. The NCAA owns the product and creates nearly all of the value. The players are interchangeable. That is a strong argument. It's not different than an employer with a non-compete. You can't sell your wares if you are working for us. That's akin to the voluntarily executed LOI. You agree to the rules when you sign.

So, I am not opposing just to oppose. Please then address my point about the NCAA creating the value. You avoided that. You agree there, don't you? I mean, the players -- the interchangeable parts that move in and out at 8 months to 5 year increments -- don't own anything, correct?

The rules apply to all NCAA athletes. Different sports have different specifics, but a rower can't sell their likeness, or endorsement (which is your topic).

And when you say it won't cost the NCAA and schools anything, you may be missing a small point. Don't you think what has been uncovered, under the table, with the top guys, will then engulf the game? Meaning, the company will say, "You go to this school, and we'll pay you. You go to Texas El-Crappo, and we won't." Further, the schools reap endorsement monies. There are only so many dollars. Further, the player endorsements will inevitably conflict with the school -- think of the shoe issue alone.

It would destroy CBB. You know slippery slopes. This is one, as I mentioned above with no on satisfied with whatever money that they get.

The better solution is the market. If there was a better alternative to the benefits college players now receive, they'd do that.

But the issue there is what has folks stumped -- there is no real market for these guys. If there was, we'd have a league where they could make enough to get the value over what they get from the NCAA (which should give you pause).

The CBB product -- the stadiums, arenas, schools, mascots, everything that goes with it -- that's what sells. Not the players at this level (to a very large degree).

And don't forget what the NCAA does to propel these players to their future earnings. Can the NCAA claw back money paid to players for the value provided?

That's an idea .. pay the players. But as part of the deal, the NCAA gets 20% of future earnings. Most wouldn't like that. Jay Bilas whines about paying players, but without his CBB notoriety, he'd just be another lawyer making a good living.

@BShark 100% agree, issus perusing long threads may be addressed in newer versions of software... Not sure. Will update to latest and greatest some day in the doldrums of summer most likely.

@nuleafjhawk LOL @ "you aren't committed"

@BShark where did you see this? Tears me up! Good read.

@Kcmatt7 @HighEliteMajor The Olympics used to claim it would destroy everything to let the athletes collect salaries and fees. The endorsement model doesn't stop the schools and the NCAA from continuing to collect broadcast fees and their other revenue streams from licensing, etc. Both, incidentally, collect their millions as non-profits, as bizarre a legal fiction as exists.

@Kcmatt7 it unbalances the playing field even more. Most Colleges/Universities lose money on sports programs (however, I'm open to facts and arguments that would show impact of sports on 'pure' University funding efforts that could be indirectly fueled from athletic persona of the school).

I think a thorough analysis of all intended and unintended consequences needs to be completed.

To some extent, athletics is an unnatural situation set up to put some element of a level playing field in place.

@approxinfinity That would be a nice bonus.

@Crimsonorblue22 From the statement Silvio's guardian put out.

@HighEliteMajor The NCAA absolutely creates a ton of value for these athletes. No doubt about it. It is a smart move for the players to come play through the schools, gain exposure, have an opportunity to get a good education, receive top of the line training, etc. But to think you could throw 10 white guys all under 6'5 out on that court and get the same National exposure, you would be mistaken. It is a balance of future pros, America's thirst for live sporting events, and school pride that have driven NCAA Basketball and Football into another level of profitability. The NCAA is honestly a victim of it's own success. It has done a great job building up amateur sports. But now things have changed and there is more money in the sport than they could have ever anticipated in 1910.

I do not think what is going on behind the scenes could get any worse when brought into the light. Companies are dictating where players go now. I think there is a better way of doing it. One where the NCAA is essentially the middle man. Once a player has chosen his school, they can then work through the "endorsement office" to secure any endorsements that are offered. And I honestly think that it would work just fine.Sure a Nike rep could say that if you go to an Adidas school, we may not sponsor you. But that would then be the same thing that is going on now.

Texas El-Chapo isn't going to be effected by this in the slightest. We are talking P5 schools and a handful of mid-majors with a decent basketball product. And that is it. Trying to regulate this doesn't make it any more of a slippery slope than it is right now. Especially when it is based around what the players value, itself, is. This isn't giving someone a raise and not others. It is whatever someone's market value is.

I'd love to read any response you have, but I'm exhausted on the subject and done responding on it. I think we have aired out all of our points by now.

The players are not interchangeable. College basketball would plummet if the players were D2 level.

@Kcmatt7 nice counter. I enjoy the back and forth and the subtleties that are exposed so we all can deepen our understanding. Appreciate you enjoining the debate.

@Bwag Universities that lose money from their sports teams just shouldn't have sports teams. Problem solved.

@Bwag The truth though, is even teams that lose money from operating a sports program itself have actually found that they make money from it through enrollment. Two great local examples. When WSU made their FF run, enrollment JUMPED immediately. I don't think the program was any more or less profitable as a result. But the university became more profitable as a result of having an Athletic Department through increased enrollment.

Then there is Missouri. The issues they had with there football team has cost them tens of millions of dollars from enrollment dropping.

So, I would say that some Universities should probably drop their sports. But most that can get even close to breaking even, it is probably worth having an athletics department.

I'm sure you have seen this but still it's the first time I had seen. pretty interesting to see the names that have be mentioned in the probe:

Iowa St - - Virginia - -Vanderbilt - -Norte Dame - -Creighton - -Clemson - -Wichita State - -Arizona - -Xavier -- - Utah- - Louisville- -S Carolina- - Washington - -Duke- -North Carolina- - Texas- -Kentucky- -Michigan State- - USC- -Alabama- -North Carolina St- -Seton Hall- -LSU- -Maryland. - So ALOT and I mean a lot of teams under the gun in some sort in this dam thing - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Kcmatt7 said:

Well at least we know that Adidas was trying to do it's part for us against Nike lol. The "embargo" was real for a period of time.

I'm sure other schools are laughing at us right now. But I can't wait to see what comes out of the EYBL raid. Adidas didn't just start paying players $90k while Nike wasn't lol.

Cal and K just landed 9 of the top 25 player for 2018 lol. BUT NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS.

I know, right!? @ NIke, Nothin to see here!! Gimme a break!! GTFO!

For the NC if vacated, there is no champion crowned. So if we vacate season who wins the big 12.? If no champ then we could win 14 in a row twice as it were.

@jayballer73 Ummm a lot of those are Nike schools...WTF? Im confused

@Lulufulu This thing not just Aidias this thing is crazy - -all dirty

Kcmatt7 said:

@wissox THE SCHOOLS DO NOT PAY THE PLAYERS. THE PLAYERS FETCH ENDORSEMENTS ON AN OPEN MARKET.

If a rower can get someone to pay them for rowing, by God, let them get paid.

Why you yelling at me bro?

@wissox My bad dude. Works been too slow lately. Misdirected boredom.

I'm curious where the IRS fits into all these payments. Surely it must be declared as income to the parents. "Follow the money" is spot on here. If reported, it's definitive (unless hidden as another type of income). If not reported - well, who wants to mess with the IRS??? Will/can the FBI subpoena tax returns? Your thoughts are appreciated, as I haven't seen the IRS mentioned anywhere....

@Gorilla72 Still a few days to report the 2017 payments, but there might be penalties for not making sufficient estimated tax payments when the money was received.

Unless, of course, the IRS waives the penalty because of the unexpected nature of accepting a large corruption payment from a shoe company.

Gary Parish was on 810 AM in KC and the interview was interesting to say the least with a clear anti-KU bias. Some of the statements include...

In the last 6 months the question I hear the most from coaches I talk to is...Adidas is the target of the investigation, why is it that KU, the flagship program from Adidas, is not yet implicated?

==> I seriously doubt that any coach would ask such a question, even off the record.

Question: have you ever heard of any player that was paid money that the program was not aware of the payment?

Answer: I never heard of a program where a player was paid that the program did not know, it would stretch my imagination to think that the program did not know about the payments.

Everybody was wondering when KU was going to be mentioned in the investigation.

I know that Gatto is more than a business acquaintance and he isa close friend of Bill Self.

The FBI has Gatto’s computer with all the correspondence with KU and they will find out what went on.

Gatto is not a street thug and he does not have an honor code like snitches get stitches and he does not want to be away from his kids and grandkids so he will cooperate with the FBI and will name names.

The entire interview had a heavy undertone of presumed KU guilt. For being the new KU station the entire interview sure sounded like a hatchet job. Of course, with Kietzman in charge we should expect nothing less.

So after all the investigating of billy Preston and holding him out, Self decides it's ok to pay Silvio's guardian, months after the investigation has started. How dumb would that be?

Kcmatt7 said:

@Bwag Universities that lose money from their sports teams just shouldn't have sports teams. Problem solved.

Then college sports would cease to exist. No woman’s sports program, not even UConn with its string of national titles, makes a profit. Since Title 10 program requires equal participation then the men’s sports would need to shut down as well. The truth about college sports is that only men’s football and basketball, particularly football, make a profit, the rest just live off that income.

As far as endorsements, who exactly would be doing the endorsement? Realistically there are 30-40 athletes that will move to the NBA every year out of app. 6,000 players in Division I and maybe another 30 that will go overseas. The question is...should the NCAA change the entire college sports structure and provide a free marketing platform for that 1% of players who already derive well over $60K per year in benefits? More importantly, who would be the target audience for an 18 year old kid fresh out of HS endorser who most people can barely understand? Would you be swayed to buy a product just because athlete, say Devonté, endorses it? I believe the potential market for college athletes as endorsers is way overrated.

@Crimsonorblue22

There seems to be this idea among the East Coast MSM members that it is impossible for a program like Kansas, in what they call flyover country, to do that well without cheating but they don’t give a second though to programs like Duke and UNC or even a Kentucky.

I suspect this "universities are the victims" distinction means more than most laymen realize right now.

@jaybate-1-0 In fact, without the distinction, there isn’t even a hint of a case. The entire premise relies on this assumption. Which begs the question — how many university actors does it take, with knowledge, to change the university from “victim” to “co-conspirator”? I note that in most of the cases, there is an assistant coach (university actor) with knowledge. What if a head coach knew, who is likely the highest paid university employee (or 2nd to the football coach)? What if a university president knew?

@Gorilla72 You are joking, right? A scuzzball taking large chunks of dirty shoe cash is going to report that on their taxes? Thanks for the early morning laugh.

@jaybate-1-0 It lept off the page and whipsawed me when I heard the sound bite. The "victim" spin bordered on OTT. the interesting twist is how adamant and vocal Silvio's guardian was about not taking any money. The guardian said that Silvio never played for a 3 stripe AAU team or had any affiliation with Adidas. Cue movie plot twist: what if the dastardly villains at Adidas went after Silvio in retaliation for never joining their petro shoe complex. Maybe they fingered him and tried to drag him and KU into the muck. Many forces don't like to see flyby schools in the F4. This thing is getting juicy! (read: out of hand ridiculous). It would seem stupid for them to go after a player at an adidas school, but weirder things have happened. Now if Preston took money it would not surprise me in the least. Seems like very dim bulbs in that camp.

@JayHawkFanToo Wortying about media bias is distracting you from the real areas of concern. We would be engaged in exactly the same speculations--for example, the thread on Stumpy trashed him and UAz completely. Other media, not just east coast, are wondering where it could lead, and many posters here are worried about it. Rob Dauster's article on NBCSports started with him saying exactly the same thing about all the questions since last fall about when the addidas inquiries would get to its most heavily supported program.

Here is my bigger take from your informative post about the interview: The discussion of Gatto being a close friend of Bill is pretty much a bombshell because I hadn't seen that before. Why Parrish would say it was more than a business relationship is puzzling. Unless Bill knew him before, or got him the job at addidas or something. That road is one that doesn't lead anywhere good.

Incidentally, for him to say he doesn't believe someone on staff didn't know about the payments should not concern us about bias or think that means he is smelling blood in the water. How many people here have stated as absolute certainty that Pitino, Boeheim, Roy, Cal, and K had to have known what was going on when their players or programs got in trouble? How many have responded to this indictment by trying to deflect it to Nike programs ("UK and Duke must be dirty to get so many 5-stars").It is an almost instinctive suspicion and it is only when our own get questioned that we scream "Bias! Innocent until proven guilty!"

@JayHawkFanToo I meant more like for entire schools than just individual sports. I also explained the importance of athletics immediately following that post. Don’t with this topic.

Yes they should change their rule. Done with that topic too.

@JayHawkFanToo and yes people would pay Devonte to use a product. He has 116k Instagram followers and could probably make about $5k per post he made advertising a product. It is super cheap advertising considering the reach you get.

If you don’t see the market, it’s because you’re too old to see it.

Now I’m actually done.

@JayHawkFanToo Lol. Was Parish on KK's show? Can't imagine more hatred for KU in one place....

@mayjay

I am sure 810AM has a recording of the show on its website and perhaps you could find It and listen.

It was not the speculation that bothered me but the presumption that KU was guilty and that it would stretch the imagination if KU was not aware of it. Yes, we speculate here but we are anonymous posters and not journalist that are held to a different standard where facts guide or should guide the discourse and speculation should be presented as such.

Do you really believe that the main question coaches with whom he talks would be ...since Adidas is the primary target why is KU not inducted since it is its flagship program? Really? Coaches are a tight knitted group and they really do not criticize each other and why would they ask Parrish who know as much or as little as we do? Listening to the conversation sure sounded like made up BS spoken to give himself more importance.

As far as stating that the FBI seized Gatto’s computer and that all the incriminating evidence will be there is also BS. If and that is a big IF there were communication between Adidas and KU about anything not kosher it certainly would not have been via official communications but in person and waaaaaaay off the record.

The bit about Coach Self being close friends with Gatto when he said that Coach Self pretty much confirmed it when he talked to reporters after the banquet is again BS since Coach Self said nothing of a kind, all he said is that he is aware KU is the flagship Adidas programor words to that effect.I believe that at one time he indicated he knows Gatto because he is the lead person for Adidas marketing the brand to elite programs and I am sure he was involved in negotiating the deal with KU.

Here is Coach Self’s quote:

“You have an apparel company and we are obviously a big player with them,” he said. “That's not saying anything positive or negative. Those are facts. Of all the schools that are out there affiliated with apparel companies, we would be one of Adidas' biggest schools. So, yeah, there's some unknowns there that obviously would be a concern to anybody that is involved in the sport right now. But I'm not to the point where I feel like there's been wrongdoing on behalf of anyone associated with us.”

Again, why don’t you find the recording and listen for yourself and firm your own opinion. I am not saying that journalist cannot or should not speculate but when they do they should present it as such and not as facts. BTW, his click bait headline that the FBI and not a conference team would end KU’s title streak was highlighted at the beginning of the interview.

@BShark

yes the only thing missing was Elpoyo to trash Andrew Wiggins.

And we thought the off-season was going to be boring.

@BShark

I believe the show is called between the lines and goes from 2 to 6 in the afternoon and is led by Kietzman.

@mayjay

Here is a link ↗ to the podcast you might have to scroll down to the Garry Parish interview. I had forgotten the part about Larry Brown; I am on the record as saying that Larry Brown and his history of rule breaking is troublesome and that I would prefer he is not associated with KU. Just a few days ago on the Memphis thread I mentioned that the AD would have trouble hiring Larry Brown precisely for this reason. Wouldn’t it be something if KU ends up being penalized, again, because something Larry Brown did...

JayHawkFanToo said:

@BShark

I believe the show is called between the lines and goes from 2 to 6 in the afternoon and is led by Kietzman.

Trash radio lol

@BShark

Unfortunately last year it replaced 610AM as the official KU station in the KC Metro area. Another bonner by Zenger, handing KU sports broadcasts to Kietzman, a KSU fan and KU hater.

@JayHawkFanToo I will listen to it sometime. I agree the headline was provocative, but it certainly reflected the concerns that have been raised everywhere. Sort of like when Michael Phelps got caught with marijuana here in Columbia with some SC students, along the lines of: "Has Phelps' Run of Olympic Medals Gone to Pot?"

As to coaches and writers talking: I absolutely believe they talk and speculate about all types of stuff. They go to the same locales, they eat together, they talk to the same people, they yak OTR constantly, and I am sure they speculate (again, OTR) constantly. It boggles my mind to think you believe no one, in those conversations, would ever have said: "God, that payola crap looks messy. And it is addidas! Look at Louisville--that is a big-time take-down. You think KU will get caught in this--they get more money from addidas than anyone?"

I am not saying I think the writers haven't gotten their quills sharpened to make more hay out of this. But I think most sports journalists see and hear about far worse things than they report, including athletes getting tons of benefits from boosters, etc, so I think they are quite cynical, not biased against any particular program, conference, or region.

@mayjay

I am not saying that coaches never talk about it but to state that THIS is the question he has been asked the most by coaches sounds like a gross exaggeration; why would they ask Parrish in the first place? Listen to the interview and form your own opinion.

@Buster-1926 Not sure I buy the theory that SZ might be secretly undermining KU. Bad things that happen in college sports usually cause AD's heads to be among the ones rolling away from the chopping block. And, when institutional control is implicated, they get fired for cause, not collecting their big buyouts.

But it definitely shows creative thinking!

@mayjay

In all fairness, Zenger negotiated contracts for TV and now radio are head scratchers and KU fans in the KC are are not happy. You will not find many Zenger fans in this area.

@Buster-1926 @JayHawkFanToo

Don't get me wrong: I think he is clearly an idiot. I just don't think a KSU alum could ever be capable of pulling off a scheme that sophisticated. Incompetence is a more believable explanation!

I'll toss out that I like 810 -- better than the 610 in large part. KK has hammered some topics pretty well (on many other matters). We just know he's a KSU guy, with that bias. They include Clinkscale who's pro KU. At other times, Petro is pretty unbiased. The early morning guys are MU/KU, but I think both are pretty fair. I don't know, I think we are maybe a touch sensitive when a topic like this hits home.

@Buster-1926 -- I enjoy the old X-files episodes. There's a new version. You might get the older versions of Scully and Mulder on this pronto. I like a good conspiracy theory.

@HighEliteMajor 810 is better in the morning and afternoon. I agree. However, the 610 evening show, I like better. Unless Jack Harry is getting made fun of by KK. Which is my favorite weekly segment.

This article suggests that the "hear and see no evil" defense might work to avoid vacatings. Based on the infamous Myron Piggie case and how Duke avoided losing its 1999 NC despite David Maggette having taken money. So, I take one step back from my pessimism. Then again, it was Duke....

http://m.kusports.com/news/2018/apr/13/former-prosecutor-ku-not-clear-yet-one-past-case-p/ ↗

More importantly...kubuckets is back!

@Buster-1926 I am going to make a few calls trying to get contracts for a few of those 5-stars going to Duke. Give their parents some frequent flyer miles or something.

@Kcmatt7 that would make it a small group from everything I’ve seen.

@mayjay

It's called a "Duke call" and it is the same thing as what refs often give them. But other schools get Duke calls... UNC... Syracuse...

Buster 1926 said:

@mayjay FWIW this is the first (contract) year that any KU sports coverage has been broadcasted on a clearly KSU & MU biased Entercom station & to be quite frank, Zenger is the first place anyone should look for a trail, whether it be blood, paper, or just the ever-so-subtle (HA!) shoe co tracks ... :shoe:

Since when did 810 become Entercom?

All eyes are focused on KU and DeSousa? All the recruiting experts are pissed they predicted him to Maryland and he chose KU?

Yet...Zion Williamson was predicted by the SAME recruiting experts to South Carolina, and yet he commits to Puke? Not one "expert," or investigator finds that ODD?

Zion can choose Puke and it's perfectly understandable, and DeSousa picks KU and the they investigate the Adidas shoe whore. They bring KU into question? Yet Coach K and Puke remain UNTOUCHABLE. Does anyone else see the bias? And yet the bball world is calling the "KU victim" claim bullshit? WOW...I can't wait to see how far these investigations go into other programs and how many other programs are "CAUGHT" from their shoe whores influencing recruits. I'm sick of this shit and KU getting crucified as a villain. These same haters better be concerned about their own favorite programs because they are next.

@truehawk93 I don't get it either. What about Nike?

Jay Bilas weighs in..

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article209167479.html ↗

BeddieKU23 said:

Jay Bilas weighs in..

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article209167479.html ↗

HEM trigger warning.

@BeddieKU23 Great read. I've always been a Bilas fan, he certainly had Kansas' back in that article.

BeddieKU23 said:

Jay Bilas weighs in..

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article209167479.html ↗

HATERS PLEASE READ: (AKA DAN DAKICH)

JAY BILAS: … I read (one) article the other day, the one that was using unnamed sources on people like balking at Kansas using the term ‘victim.’ That’s not Kansas’ term. That’s what the government claims. That’s what the the government says. They (KU officials) didn’t pull that out of thin air. The United States government says they are a victim, That is their theory. I don’t understand why people won’t go on the record. What’s so horrible about it? If you’ve got the opinion that Kansas, they’re not victims, then why wouldn’t you stand behind that? I didn’t understand that one. To me that’s like an issue of petty jealousy. It’s like claiming UCLA wouldn’t have won all those championships if not for Sam Gilbert. The hell they wouldn’t of. They would have won them anyway.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article209167479.html#storylink=cpy ↗

Bilas makes a strong case that the whole system relies on massive hypocrisy. But he is wrong about whether the schools are technically victims. You can be defrauded even if you get something as a result. Sure, KU got SDS as a result of the 2nd payment that sprang him from Maryland, but look at Billy to understand what harm a school can face when a player falsely enrolls as an amateur and that eligibility then gets questioned or rejected (financial waste of the scholarship, obviously, but also the risk of competitive imbalance, severe planning disruption, and, had he played, possible retroactive forfeits).

@BeddieKU23 I love it when Bilas backs up KU. Some here dont tolerate his opinions too well but I kind of like the guy. He is intelligent, well spoken, appears to be honest. I love it when he goes to bat for Coach Self and KU. Especially since he is a Dukie.

He could have easily piled on, but he didn't. You have to respect how he sticks to his guns at all times.

To be honest, I know guys who played football at Butler CC and they even got paid. Random envelopes of cash would just end up in their mailboxes. Everyone is getting paid and has been for a long time.

@Lulufulu

I liked his interview. I don't always agree with him but he made some good points.

Its disturbing if what's he saying about the basketball commission comes true, it doesn't solve the issues at all. But he was absolutely right, the money talks, the money will always win out.

@mayjay

To further add, the Billy situation led to Silvio in this convoluted mess. Which ugly duck is worse? We didn't play one player we found to have eligibility concerns. But we ended pushing the other to come early and play only to find out his recruitment was full of back door dealings from the FBI. I fear the NCAA comes at KU and tries to connect the dots, especially if they rule Silvio ineligible a 2nd time around.

I agree with Bilas, there's no way a school can monitor everything or be expected to.

Nothing is going to happen to KU, or Silvio. Worst case Silvio would be suspended for a game ... maybe. Sexton was suspended for a game.

@Lulufulu I've always like Jay - and this was a very sweet article backing KU and Coach Self for sure

KUSTEVE said:

Nothing is going to happen to KU, or Silvio. Worst case Silvio would be suspended for a game ... maybe. Sexton was suspended for a game.

Not the same circumstances. I hope this all settles itself but there is probably no clarity in sight

I just hope Silvio and his Guardian are cooperative with the NCAA and get it sorted out now instead of dragging it out into the season. I honestly believe that if Silvio had no idea he shouldn't be penalized for his guardian.

If the FBI wanted to really make a difference, they would go after the parents.

BShark said:

Kevin Knox played. Ayton played. Sexton played. Little and Quinerly will play. So Silvio can probably play. Doesn't seem he had any knowledge of it, and didn't see a dime. KU is certainly deep enough in the post to not play him. Wonder how it shakes out.

Why the hell would DeSousa not play? How long were the above mentioned players suspended? a game, a semester, or season? I call bullcrap. He better play and the NCAA better not touch Silvio.

The bball "Commissar," I mean Commissioner...said the NCAA will not act. They did not act against Zona or Ayton. We still don't know what the hell happened with Baggerly. This is a mess of smoke and mirrors...cloak and daggers. It simply shows just how inept the NCAA has been doing their job. If anything, this shows how horrible the NCAA has been at enforcing their own stupid rules. But like everyone knows, everyone makes money. Who is going to miss the gravy train?

It sucks they are using KU as a the guinea pig or case study. Let's see what happens when the NCAA finds out that a Nike shoe whore snatched Zion at the last minute from SCarolina. Funny how SCarolina was also named as one of the earlier violators too. I guarantee this has given many of these teams like UNC, Puke and Kensucky a chance to cover their tracks, and consult with their shoe whores. Not one article has questioned how Puke stole Zion from SCarolina. Not one writer has even implied that Zion could possibly have the same violation.

This is what pisses me off how KU is crooked in the eyes of the bball world. And...they havent' even been accused of doing anything wrong. Listen to Mellinger with the KCStar and Gary Parrish. They just keep feeding people bullshit about KU.

I spoke with a UK fan and they are very concerned their program is next. They have no idea what Cal has done. I guarantee you Coach K has been working night and day to clean up any signs of wrong doing.

I guarandamntee you this...If KU or Silvio gets any kind of punishment from this shit, KU's legal team better be ready to unleash hell. This is bullshit to call out one program and penalize one program. You people thinking a "slap" on the wrist is going to happen, you better think again. The NCAA will have to cover their asses and make an example. Now, they have KU for their example. The sad thing is, this will take forever, but Silvio has done nothing, nor has his guardian. We should not have to sit him out, lose any games, or wins.

These other programs better be VERY NERVOUS. All these articles have all said one thing...all programs do the same thing to get recruits.

mayjay said:

@Buster-1926 I am going to make a few calls trying to get contracts for a few of those 5-stars going to Duke. Give their parents some frequent flyer miles or something.

NO worries...Coach K has that covered. But its all legal... :wink:

truehawk93 said:

The NCAA will have to cover their asses and make an example.

That has been their history. But they only slapped the wrists of Syracuse and North Carolina. Heck... what North Carolina did should have brought the feds in to prosecute. Their academic gift giving diminished the value for all other students graduating with a diploma from North Carolina. Cases of such magnitude should have invited federal prosecution.

"It sucks they are using KU as a the guinea pig or case study."

--@truehawk93

Cui bono?

@Buster-1926 what was he like on the air?

What does this have to do with the FBI investigation? Did I miss something?

Disappointed to see him go, he was the voice of reason for KK