🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Officially Leaving:

1) Vick (no more eligibility)
2) Moore (transferring)
3) KJ Lawson (transferring)
4) D. Lawson (NBA)
5) Grimes (transferring)

Returning Scholarship Players:
1) Dotson
2) Agbaji
3) Garrett
4) McCormack
5) Azubuike
6) Lightfoot
7) De Sousa
8) Open
9) Open
10) Open
11) Open
12) Open
13) Open

Incoming Recruits/Transfers Committed:

1) McBride
2) Braun
3) Enaruna
4) Moss
5) Wilson
6) Harris

I hope we don't have to add the worst starter in the entire Big 12 conference to the leaving list.

Azubuike - - - - Gone : just don't see coming back improves his draft status , said before - -say again - don't even see much of a chance in NBA - -he is the old NBA big - - more chance over sea's

D Lawson- - -Gone : - - probably low 2nd round/D-League - -again better chance over sea's

KJ Lawson- - -Gone: - - -Brother gone , - -limited minutes here - - - will be a grad transfer looking for more playing time in his final year of eligibility.

De Sousa- - - -Gone - -NCAA has screwed him - - may wait to see about appeal, - yet that ruling isn't gonna change - penalty will remain - - -more likely then not puts his name in draft

Moore- - - Gone : - - -Transfer - -no future here period

Grimes - - -? : - -50/50 chance - -he for sure needs to come back for another year , BUT what I hear that people in his camp - -Mom/Dad - just an of year , and NBA still likes him drafting on potential - -size.

@jayballer73 I'd have to agree with your projections there. Heard from Petro that Matt Galloway projects that Grimes will leave. Our luck might be that the only one you're wrong on is Charlie (less is) Moore.

Jarret Sutton was on the radio today and he is a NBA scout for the Clippers ( I believe) and he said that the only one that SHOULD leave is Dedric. He doesn't think Doke and Q will get great feedback from the combine if they get a invite.

HighEliteMajor said:

@jayballer73 I'd have to agree with your projections there. Heard from Petro that Matt Galloway projects that Grimes will leave. Our luck might be that the only one you're wrong on is Charlie (less is) Moore.

If these projections play out , then Coach and staff has got work to do - -thots of Scholi's need filled

I think IF ALL of these did happen - which is a pretty decent chance of happening then that would mean we would have still 4 more open even with the 2 that we have committed.

Then the prefect storm to come from that would be for Hurt - - -Precious - - - And the kid I can't remember his name begins with an E I believe - and then Stanley -that would be a really good late signing.

However again I think Hurt's ship has sailed - - I have heard NOTHING on Stanley - -I thought he was suppose to announce pretty soon - but probably stay out west. - -So that leaves Precious and the other - -got work to do for sure. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Woodrow said:

Jarret Sutton was on the radio today and he is a NBA scout for the Clippers ( I believe) and he said that the only one that SHOULD leave is Dedric. He doesn't think Doke and Q will get great feedback from the combine if they get a invite.

Now I could be very wrong on this BUT where was it that I heard or read where Doke might not even be ready for the NBA Combine? - -that he would miss out on that? - - maybe even someone had posted on here sometime back - I know I've seen info about that somewhere. - -Just can't remember where. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Here's my thoughts on who goes, who stays.

Stays..

Starters:

Dotson

Agbaji

McCormack

Rotation:

Garrett

Lightfoot

Pending:

DeSousa

Gone:

Dedric- Dad was shopping for agents already. Go make some money overseas.

KJ- getting married in the summer. Likely can grad transfer if he has his academics in order. Finds a bigger role somewhere else, closer to home maybe.

Grimes- My suspicion that his family had made arrangement's for his pro career under the premise he was a Top 10 pick pre-season has only gotten stronger.
Does anyone really feel like Q plans to stick around? I just don't get the vibe with him. Wish I was wrong here. Wish I felt differently about what he may do. He's bombed his draft stock, his tape will look even worse. Will he get a combine invite on name and previous reputation? I can't imagine he'll test well compared to others. What position is he going to play. He didn't give scouts a good feel for what he could do. A million good reasons to return. But its his life. He'll do what he thinks is best

Doke- Coach all but said he didn't expect him back. This could be one that takes a while to sort our since he's still in the beginning of rehab and could stick around to field offers from abroad. I'd welcome him back if he did return. Hopefully he can get and stay healthy whatever he decides to do.

No Idea but don't come back:

Charlie Moore- What else can we say, he's not a Power 5 or Kansas caliber player. He seems like a good kid but I hope he finds a more appropriate level for his talents.

@BeddieKU23 Haha, I love that "no idea but don't come back".

@BeddieKU23 Moore will be back for one more year. He should graduate after next season so I'd bet Moore is back next year and then grad transfers next offseason.

@BeddieKU23 Charlie Moore was a Kansas caliber player this year....

K.J. ? Really ? Why would he leave a top program? ? Makes no sense at all to me... he will get playing time here. He got better over the year, and there are many many positives for sticking with a top program.

Grimes leaving would be a flat out joke. My god. For what? d-league money and anonymity...? He is nowhere NEAR pro level. Where is Newman now ? D-league right? Newman was better than Grimes.
If he leaves, then my advice to the coaching staff- avoid guys like him like the plague. Get guys who want to play for Kansas and to learn the game under self, not guys who think it’s an ok stop before they “ supposedly”go to the pros.

And why wouldn’t Doke want one more year under self, under the bright spotlight of a blue-blood college program.... overseas can wait one more year for a 20 year old.

Self, will he stay or will he go?

@Bosthawk KJ probably doesn't start next year and if he transfers to a mid major program, he can start for 2 years and give himself a better shot at a pro future than coming off the bench for the next 2 seasons at KU.

Q absolutely should stay, but Josh Selby should have as well. 19 year olds don't always make rational decisions. He may be so hellbent on being OAD that he'll do it even of it would benefit him much more to stay another year and build off of his last few games where he looked much better and consistent.

Doke needs to go because the kid has been injured in all 3 seasons so far. When durability is an issue, he needs to make money while he can because another injury next season may derail any pro future Doke has whether it's stateside or overseas.

Dedric is in a weird place because his draft stock likely doesn't change whether he stays or goes. He's likely a borderline 2nd round/undrafted type player. That'll still be his draft position next season as well.

@Texas-Hawk-10 can he sit another year? One Med red and another transfer year? Is that right? If he doesn't graduate!

@Crimsonorblue22 If KJ is a grad transfer, he wouldn't have to sit out and could play immediately. If he did have to sit out another year, he would lose that season of eligibility and he would only have one season to play wherever he transferred to in D1.

KJ's transfer status largely depends on if he is graduating in May or not.

@Texas-Hawk-10 yeah, that's what I thought. I don't recall if we've heard he's graduating.

K.J. is not nba material... more playing time may or may not help his overseas pro career. Kansas has so many positives for him. The coaching, the top tier program, more time with Hudy... or yes he could play more somewhere else, certainly not a blues blood school, but somewhere where his style and size are needed. You know, committing to relentless D and learning team ball, challenging himself would get him playing time. Marcus garret gets a lot of minutes in those qualities alone, why not K.J.?

@nuleafjhawk that's the sad part, he really wasn't tho.

@BeddieKU23 I dont care if Grimes leaves. Overrated. Total ambivalence toward him. Fill the slot with another Och that will stay and we will shower with love and roses in 4 years. I am sick of the prima donna OADs.

@Fightsongwriter

Grimes Freshman year almost mirrors Wayne Selden's to a T. Wayne was also a Top 15 recruit and stuck around 3 years.

I can understand your frustration towards Grimes. I can't say he's done anything "pre-madonna" though. You wouldn't want a 2nd year to see what the staff could do with him?

@Bosthawk

It would probably help if the staff made him a full time undersized 4 man. He's too slow to guard the perimeter. He can rebound and score inside and his outside shot was all sorts of inconsistent. Wouldn't be a bad back up to say Matthew Hurt..

The reason I think he looks elsewhere is simple most brothers that go to the same schools leave together. You see it everywhere across the nation.

Bosthawk said:

K.J. ? Really ? Why would he leave a top program? ? Makes no sense at all to me... he will get playing time here. He got better over the year, and there are many many positives for sticking with a top program.

Grimes leaving would be a flat out joke. My god. For what? d-league money and anonymity...? He is nowhere NEAR pro level. Where is Newman now ? D-league right? Newman was better than Grimes.
If he leaves, then my advice to the coaching staff- avoid guys like him like the plague. Get guys who want to play for Kansas and to learn the game under self, not guys who think it’s an ok stop before they “ supposedly”go to the pros.

And why wouldn’t Doke want one more year under self, under the bright spotlight of a blue-blood college program.... overseas can wait one more year for a 20 year old.

The unfortunate reality is Kansas is just a hub for these guys professional careers. When you put so many guys into the NBA or into professional careers overseas, logic really doesn't apply when it comes to guys staying or leaving. There are more options becoming available every year and players have more leverage then they have ever had. 5 years ago most of these guys would likely have stayed and it wouldn't really be a question. Now every player down to the ball boy needs to be asked whether they are returning or not. For better or worse this is where we are now

Every year this happens with fans. There are so many other circumstances that play into whether a kid goes pro / transfers or not. It is NOT all about the NBA for some of these guys. Sure they would all love to play there, but there are so many other avenues to collect generous pay checks and play the game of basketball.

If someone offered you half a million dollars to play basketball in Australia or Europe are you going to turn that down? In regards to Doke it has been said he will have a robust market overseas and make at least that.

I’m guilty of it as well , but fans have to take the fandom glasses off and think about this rationally. Sure there are going to be awful decisions as there is every year across college basketball, but that’s life. If a kid wants to move on and thinks that is best for him and his family then best wishes to them. Let’s get someone in here that wants to be here and will buy into the team 100%. Having another Vick situation is not healthy for the program.

@wissox asks the tough question...

I believe he stays and sees the investigation/repurcussions thru

@wissox Self's statements were reassuring from his end, just read at face value. We've heard many times that in other instances, when someone says "I'm not leaving", they leave; or the dreaded vote of confidence by an AD or GM, that ends in a firing. But who knows. Self's statement could be read many ways, and one way is a precursor to issues with the university. But that is just one of many ways to read it, and a negative way. A concern is also from the university end, what is known behind closed doors, what has not become public, what is their intentions, etc. Just haven't heard. Too much uncertainty right now to even know.

@Fightsongwriter I am DOA (done and over) the OAD's as well. It might be different if we had one that actually made our team better instead of making it worse. The only one I can think of in recent years that even came close was Josh Jackson, but I'm still not sold.

This was my post way back in 2014 --

/topic/935

Bosthawk said:

K.J. is not nba material... more playing time may or may not help his overseas pro career. Kansas has so many positives for him. The coaching, the top tier program, more time with Hudy... or yes he could play more somewhere else, certainly not a blues blood school, but somewhere where his style and size are needed. You know, committing to relentless D and learning team ball, challenging himself would get him playing time. Marcus garret gets a lot of minutes in those qualities alone, why not K.J.?

bottom line plain and simple - - KJ isn't coming back. - -His minutes will not be increased. - He will never be the defender that Marcus is - - -and chances are with what w got coming back - who's spot is he gonna take additional minutes from.- - -?

You put that with Dedric leaving - - and he is leaving make no doubt about that - -KJ very close to his brother - - - - -KJ gonna be a grad -he will transfer - -play his one year being a grad transfer - and getting more minutes - -won't be at a blue blood school - he will transfer to another school where they can really put his minutes to use - -he not coming back here with limited minutes again when he can go else where. - There is many of school he can transfer to where they will play him with his limited Defense or not - they will still play him -He is not coming back. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

K.J. needs a degree. If he has that there isn’t much left for him in NCAA basketball other than the fun of playing at the highest level he ever will.

@HighEliteMajor That was a very good post back in 2014. I didn't reply directly to you, but this was my response to that post back then:

nuleafjhawk Apr 15, 2014, 6:13 AM
I think there’s room for everyone.

We can have the solid four year guys that want to get an education and play a high level of Division I college basketball.

Then we can have a whole separate league of OAD’s. They could all be on travelling teams sponsored by Barnum and Bailey.

" What in the wide, wide world of sports is a goin on here ? "

I think a lot of KJ's decision side on if Self wants him back at this point. KJ will be able to graduate this semester according to Matt Tate and he is getting married this summer. So he may just decide to be done with basketball or if Chuck and Grimes move on, and Self doesn't land a couple other guys. I could see a scenario that he says but you never know what he has planned going forward. KJ isn't a great player but I always thought he played hard and I do appreciate that from him.

This is becoming a joke nowadays. Only Dotson and Agbaji have NBA POTENTIAL.. Dedric is a REALLY low level athlete and has ZERO shot at the NBA. His skill wont carry him beyond that shortcoming.

@BigBad It is not all about the NBA. You can earn money other places. Why is this so hard to grasp.

@Woodrow I'm well aware. Besides the NBA, this level of basketball is the highest where there are actual crowds and its still fun. Put a lie detector test on everyone who left early and I'd bet 95% wish they hadn't.

Woodrow said:

If someone offered you half a million dollars to play basketball in Australia or Europe are you going to turn that down? In regards to Doke it has been said he will have a robust market overseas and make at least that.

NONE of these guys are making that. It took YEARS for Langford to make that and he was a league MVP.

I know SEVERAL european pros from where I live and they never made that.
A guy who went to my High School ended up the all time leading scorer for a D-1 program. He played in Europe for 8 years. He is a real estate agent now. They dont make set for life money.

@BigBad Langford has made well over a million dollars a year for quite sometime now.

For a couple years he was the highest paid player in Europe.

I honestly dont give a rats ass about these guys. The sad fact is a lot of them "go to college" and can barely speak passable English. Then they leave early out of pressure of supporting their entire family. I'm sick of the low expectations put on the young kids today. Forget bettering yourself as a human being, just go chase money with no other skills but low level pro basketball ones.

@BigBad I think Dedric could make a good living over seas for sure, but I agree it will be tough for him to make in the NBA. I hope for him that he is drafted and at least gets a chance to live his dream. I'm not sure if Grimes has the athletic ability to play in the NBA, he has to fine his stroke from distance to get much of a look IMO. Dotson will get drafted in a few years, he's ahead of when Jacque, Frank and Aaron Miles were during their freshman seasons IMO. Which says a lot about what he could be in the near future. Ochai is prob a lottery a pick in a couple of years IMO. He did pretty darn good for a recruit ranked in the 130s and being thrown into the mix mid season. I'd bet he leads us in 3 point percentage and scoring next season. We've heard both Self and Fran talk about how he is the most athletic guy on the team, give the fella a year or two and he'll be damn good.
Doke isn't on any draft boards that I've seen and really doesn't fit the mold of a Center in the league nowadays but he also could make a good living over seas and I wouldn't blame him if he left to try it out. He's been injured for over half of his time in a Kansas uniform and it tough for me to believe he could be healthy for a full season here. SDS is probably leaves if his suspension isn't lessened, I could see him trying to wait it out if they say he can next season or the second semester next year.
I do agree with your assessment of guys wishing they would've stayed. Think of how much better we could've been this season if we had Newman's shooting and he's just bouncing around the G league now. I get guys like Selby leaving because their family was poor and needed whatever he could get but the guys like Henry, Newman, Wright and a few probably wish'd they'd stayed at this point. Sometimes I wish these kids would look at some of guys before them's mistakes. I have no problem with a guy that is projected in round 1 going, they are gaunteed a contract for 3 years while undrafted and second rounders are not.

@Woodrow International leagues cap how many Americans are allowed per team and the average salary of an American player is typically between $75,000-100,000 per year. Only the elite of the elite Euro players make a million or more per year.

Doke would probably start around $100,000 in Europe.

BigBad said:

I honestly dont give a rats ass about these guys. The sad fact is a lot of them "go to college" and can barely speak passable English. Then they leave early out of pressure of supporting their entire family. I'm sick of the low expectations put on the young kids today. Forget bettering yourself as a human being, just go chase money with no other skills but low level pro basketball ones.

idk about you man but if my family was borderline homeless and I had an opportunity to really help them out ASAP I'd do it in a heartbeat. Thankfully I've never had to make that choice and getting an education has been a tremendous privilege. Some aren't so lucky.

We have several guys that have come back to finish their degrees! Door is always open.

@FarmerJayhawk PHOF!! I've seen first hand what an athletic scholarship can lead to kids who'd have no other hope to get into college. I've also seen with kids like Ben Mclemore what can happen for a kid who grew up as poor as anyone can imagine who does earn a pro contract. Even the pro minimum for several years will get that kid and his family out deep financial problems.

As much as I hate it when kids like Josh Jackson or Kelly Oubre leave early, I don't blame them. I also love it when kids like Frank Kaminsky say I'm coming back for my senior year because another year in college is better than playing in half full NBA gyms.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

We have several guys that have come back to finish their degrees! Door is always open.

This is a great point. KU and most power conference programs honor the kid’s scholarship if he ever wants to come back and finish. Ben finished his eventually if memory serves. I know for sure he was working on it. But he was a one and done so must be a terrible thing for the program

FarmerJayhawk said:

BigBad said:

I honestly dont give a rats ass about these guys. The sad fact is a lot of them "go to college" and can barely speak passable English. Then they leave early out of pressure of supporting their entire family. I'm sick of the low expectations put on the young kids today. Forget bettering yourself as a human being, just go chase money with no other skills but low level pro basketball ones.

idk about you man but if my family was borderline homeless and I had an opportunity to really help them out ASAP I'd do it in a heartbeat. Thankfully I've never had to make that choice and getting an education has been a tremendous privilege. Some aren't so lucky.

Agree with what you have to say. - -Kinda of funny how people need money to survive - -huh? - like you say if these kids family - - Mother/farther - -siblings struggle - -you dam straight I'm going to make that money to help my family. -People can call me what they want - -my family is my Everything - -period. - -" FOE " - -family over everything

Well this thread got cray.

BShark said:

Well this thread got cray.

Apparently kids making money when they can instead of being unpaid labor for their favorite basketball team is a controversial topic!

@FarmerJayhawk I know there are more, but I remember Cole did too.

@FarmerJayhawk Perpetuating the myth of unpaid labor are we?

HighEliteMajor said:

@FarmerJayhawk Perpetuating the myth of unpaid labor are we?

I mean... if a job where you're forbidden from making income is by definition unpaid... and scholarships aren't income. I don't pay taxes on it, it doesn't go on my W2, and it doesn't affect my income tax bill. At all. Neither does their minuscule stipend. If you really want to go nuts with it, you can say they're compensated in kind, which is fair. But they're certainly unpaid using the Haig-Simmons (economic) definition of income, consumption plus change in net worth. Student-athletes can't accept any income that would increase their ability to consume, let alone increase wealth.

I'm an economist by trade and it sure as hell strikes me as unpaid since being a college athlete does not increase your ability to consume. But there is some non-monetary compensation, which fine I guess? If you really want to go nuts, slaves were given non-monetary compensation for their labor and nobody says they were paid.

tl;dr: compensation /=/ income. Athletes aren't getting any monetary benefit from playing and can't accept any monetary benefit from playing. Unless you have a different definition?

@FarmerJayhawk So you actually invoked the word “slaves”? Think this through, my friend. The truth is out there. It all begins with the word “choice.”

@FarmerJayhawk You're right, college athletes are unpaid, but that slavery comparison is way out of line and way off base.

College athletes may not be paid financially for what they provide a school, but they certainly are not uncompensated for their services. These players, all sports and genders, are provided with thousands of dollars of free apparel from whoever sponsors the school, Adidas in the case of KU athletes. The retail price of an athletes regular wardrobe is easily $200+ dollars in the summer time and $350+ in the winter time.

A full scholarship athlete who stays all 4 years is being compensated with at least $125,000 in free tuition, room and board, and dining during those 4 years along with networking opportunities the vast majority of regular students don't have access to.

Todd Reesing does not get the job he has working for David Booth's company without being Todd Reesing.

I would have loved to have been able to afford anything Adidas released while I was a student at KU instead of shopping the clearance sections of the bookstore for KU apparel. I would have loved to have been able to network with David Booth and other high end boosters and alums while at KU, but I had to go the job fairs and compete with all the other regular students for intern and job opportunities after graduation.

A lot of these athletes on full ride scholarships are kids that wouldn't have been able to go to college on their own otherwise because of financial issues beyond their own control.

Do I think there should be some changes made to the current system? Absolutely, but you cannot realistically tell me these athletes aren't compensated for their services to their school.

HighEliteMajor said:

@FarmerJayhawk So you actually invoked the word “slaves”? Think this through, my friend. The truth is out there. It all begins with the word “choice.”

I did! As a similar condition where they were compensated in-kind and not allowed to make income outside their little fiefdom. To be clear, comparing the plight of a KU player to that of a slave in the antebellum South isn't great, but it's an example to show that in-kind compensation is sufficient for a just labor market.

I get the choice argument in that they aren't required to attend college. I'm a libertarian for chrissakes. But you're talking about two different concepts. One, is the individual required to attend college to make a living playing basketball? No, of course not. So there's nothing preventing the player from getting paid to play basketball. Two, if the individual attends college to play basketball, are they paid while attending? Also no.

It's a normative question about whether the student-athlete should be paid in some form. My feeling is yes. They should be able to command what the market will pay from anyone who's willing to pay them, including shoe companies, universities, the G League, NBA, international teams, or the freaking Globetrotters. The NCAA member institutions should be able to play in this sandbox too. The NCAA and member institutions take in billions in TV and merch revenue each year, so how about they use that to actually pay student-athletes what they could command if there wasn't a price ceiling of zero?

@Texas-Hawk-10 I literally said they were compensated, even in the tl;dr version. Unless "But there is some non-monetary compensation, which fine I guess?" isn't clear enough for you.

HighEliteMajor said:

This was my post way back in 2014 --

/topic/935

Thanks for the memory. I miss the more thorough analysis of posts of that period of Buckets. You were a big part of that.

Strong PoV. Sound analysis to support. And sure, they sometimes got some pointed (sometimes too personal) responses. But a lot gave a counter PoV that was helpful to better analyze the game and team we all love.

Also, know that it was a huge investment of time and thought on several posters part most notbly yourself and a few others. So thank!

We should start a FAN Declaration thread. Except we'd have the same issues with any other team. Our society has deemed that a player's potential is worth more than his actual worth. The players and their families are exceptionally greedy - I don't buy the sob story that they're poor and need the money - if they've been broke for 18 years, they can make it another 3 years and then they and their families really will be set for life (assuming they have a good agent and financial advisors).

I'd bet money (because I'm exceptionally greedy.....) that if you polled 100 players that had gone the OAD route, at least 80 of them (the 80 that are sitting on the bench or playing in Madagascar) would tell current students - STAY IN COLLEGE. Have some fun. Enjoy your life. This is a JOB.

Here's something interesting about Lawson's chances of sticking in the NBA.

He ranks #8 in WARP, Wins above Replacement level at 1.9.

6 of the 7 above him will likely go in the lottery. One, (Haliburton of ISU) will likely return to College.

We know his limitations as an athlete but analytics say he'll do just fine in the NBA.

Lawson feasts on matchups he won’t have in the NBA. I wish him the best, but it’s likely overseas.

@BeddieKU23 The eye test says: "Negatory."

@nuleafjhawk Spot on.

Oh well so it starts. - A poster of the Phog - -posted that someone had a screen shot of Grimes at KCI airport - - -Bags Packed.

OH NO ! ! ! ! - Quentin at KCI with bags packed? - -Well this is it -- he is gone lmao. - -Couldn't be going to Texas for extended weekend seeing his Mom or any other GaZillon things - - JUMPIN - - GEE -- HOSSA - - -FATS - -surely not. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Bag, adidas bag

Not that there was much doubt, but Ochai posted this today.

🐦 View Tweet

Woodrow said:

Not that there was much doubt, but Ochai posted this today.

🐦 View Tweet

IT DID NOT MEAN ANYTHING BAD

nuleafjhawk said:

We should start a FAN Declaration thread. Except we'd have the same issues with any other team. Our society has deemed that a player's potential is worth more than his actual worth. The players and their families are exceptionally greedy - I don't buy the sob story that they're poor and need the money - if they've been broke for 18 years, they can make it another 3 years and then they and their families really will be set for life (assuming they have a good agent and financial advisors).

I'd bet money (because I'm exceptionally greedy.....) that if you polled 100 players that had gone the OAD route, at least 80 of them (the 80 that are sitting on the bench or playing in Madagascar) would tell current students - STAY IN COLLEGE. Have some fun. Enjoy your life. This is a JOB.

Seems to me calling players and families you know little about other than what you see on TV "exceptionally greedy" is a bit much. Also, maybe if you've been broke for ONE year you'd know "making another 3" isn't really an option. The complete disregard for other people in this post is gross. Learn some empathy friend.

Also, people talk about potential vs. actual worth a lot. Truth is, a dollar now is worth more than a potential dollar in the future. I see posters writing about how this player or that should come back so they can make more money later, but there is absolutely ZERO guarantee of that. It's completely in the realm of possibility that let's say Grimes comes back, has a similar season to this one and his draft stock goes DOWN. Add to that potential for injury and yeah, I'm not going to judge (call greedy) any kid that makes a decision he/she thinks is best for their future.

You say "stay in college. Have some fun. Enjoy your life." Maybe for that person it's not fun and they are trying to enjoy their life.

@benshawks08 Well, i had to take some time to think about what you said. After looking at it, i definitely could have worded it better. A LOT better. I said I had to take some time to think about it because when you mentioned the lack of empathy, it kind of got to me. In real life (as opposed to an anonymous basketball blog life) I do consider myself to be empathetic. I'm a Christian and I take the way I talk to and treat people very seriously. Having said that, that also means I'm a human and we tend to goof up sometimes. I slipped on that post and I apologize.

I'm still not a fan of the OAD thing, but I"ll try to really watch what I say from now on in regards to those kinds of things.

@nuleafjhawk The only reason I think I responded really was because it surprised me coming from you. I don't post on here a whole lot but I do keep up with the threads I find interesting. I've grown to expect certain things from certain posters and was caught off guard. Thanks for really thinking and not clapping back like anonymous posters are sometimes wont to do.

I'm a teacher so empathy is pretty important to me too. As I'm currently helping kids make decisions about going to college and what they can and can't afford I'm ALWAYS amazed at the struggle so many of my kids go through that nobody ever sees. You can just never tell what another person is going through at any given moment. I see the value in a degree and do what I can to help my students understand that value but other needs have to be met first before anyone can go out and try to better themselves and improve their future earning power. The poorer you are, the less opportunity you have to invest in yourself and the future. Privilege of all kinds are real and a lot of our current systems are set up to continue to benefit those that have over those that don't.

Good job guys! I think one of the best examples of this is when Ben Mac left. I've never seen a kid so happy to be in school. Do you remember how he loved school? I'm sure a hot shower, his own bed, heating and ac, clothes, food, classes, help w/classes, surrounded by so much love was something he never had before! The day he left I cried so hard, he wanted to stay so bad, but his family was in such poverty, he didn't have much choice to leave a place he loved like none other! He even bought a home here, and gave back to this community and his home town. This past year his brother passed away and I don't think he's on a team. He has been dealt some bad breaks. I love that kid! I pray somebody sees that talent.

@nuleafjhawk @benshawks08 @Crimsonorblue22 Thanks to all of you for your insightful and thoughtful posts. We could use more of this on this board.

@Crimsonorblue22 I can't begin to tell you how many tears I've shed over guys leaving whether graduating or moving on to earn a living to help their families.. There have been so many that just hated to see go. Ben Mac was certainly among them. I'll join in your prayer that someone sees his talent.

BMac is a Jayhawk forever.

Updated to reflect the Moore transfer.

Estimated odds to return:
1. Lightfoot 99%
2. Garrett 99%
3. Agbaji 99%
4. McCormack 99%
5. Dotson 80%
6. Grimes 65%
7. KJ Lawson 50%
8. Azubuike 40%
9. De Sousa 33%
10. D. Lawson 15%

dylans said:

Estimated odds to return:
1. Lightfoot 99%
2. Garrett 99%
3. Agbaji 99%
4. McCormack 99%
5. Dotson 80%
6. Grimes 65%
7. KJ Lawson 50%
8. Azubuike 40%
9. De Sousa 33%
10. D. Lawson 15%

C. Moore 0%:blush:

On Dotson-
correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the nba already overstocked with his type??

And our boy Frank is currently riding the pine with the Kings

Talen Horton Tucker declared and reading his message about it, the decision seems final.

!alt text ↗

@BShark umm who? Outside of Culver and Wiggington it didn’t seem like there was much NBA talent in the big12 this season.

He's going to be taken in the first round. Very good player that I was worried would stay at ISU for a couple years.

@BShark

Agree he will probably be a late first this year. Talented player with a linebacker body

I only watched ISU play against KU, but he really didn’t make an impression. One of only 2 big12 players projected in the draft (depending on where you look); Culver the obvious best talent in the Big12 is the other. Dedrick is on the outside looking in just ahead of Dotson and Larry Bird Jr.

What do I know? I thought Devin Booker was a turd.

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2019-nba-mock-draft.html ↗

All I know is that Carsen Edwards kid is a stud, and has nerves of steel. Yes, I know his 6'0", so if a lecture about short guys in the NBA is coming, I get it. Please deem me lectured.

HighEliteMajor said:

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2019-nba-mock-draft.html ↗

All I know is that Carsen Edwards kid is a stud, and has nerves of steel. Yes, I know his 6'0", so if a lecture about short guys in the NBA is coming, I get it. Please deem me lectured.

He was a ton of fun to watch Saturday night. Tournament record 28 3's in 4 games. He definitely put in the work this past off-season on his body. I think he sticks in the league, scoring is in his DNA

A couple things to keep in mind when looking at early entrants. Starting this year, players can hire an agent and retain eligibility as long as they don't take impermissible benefits. And the big one, players can return to school if they're not drafted and maintain eligibility.

Does anyone know if the season ending banquet is this weekend? Or is it after the final 4 since I guess Self might have to be there...

Just seems like that is usually when we hear some announcements of players leaving.

FarmerJayhawk said:

And the big one, players can return to school if they're not drafted and maintain eligibility.

Really? What’s to keep everyone from declaring just to see what will happen? Can you only declare twice?

If you’re drafted and don’t like the team can you go back to school? (I don’t think this is currently possible, but will it be?)

dylans said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

And the big one, players can return to school if they're not drafted and maintain eligibility.

Really? What’s to keep everyone from declaring just to see what will happen? Can you only declare twice?

If you’re drafted and don’t like the team can you go back to school? (I don’t think this is currently possible, but will it be?)

You can only withdraw twice. And to your last question, once you’re drafted you forfeit your eligibility. I can’t see the NCAA going the route of letting drafted players play unless it’s a draft and follow kind of thing that the NHL does.

@FarmerJayhawk lol not realistic, but it might be a way for the ncaa stick it to the nba after the oad fiasco. I mean the oad rule is the NBA’s rule and the NCAA’s mess.

My twisted take - No need to kick talented kids out if all they did was get a job offer they declined.

Jalen Lecque will try and go to the NBA from High School. Looks like he'll have a good chance of getting approved to do so.

As my friend told me who worked with him this season, he has some bad influences in his corner. Huge gamble for this kid. Needs a lot of work.

BeddieKU23 said:

Jalen Lecque will try and go to the NBA from High School. Looks like he'll have a good chance of getting approved to do so.

As my friend told me who worked with him this season, he has some bad influences in his corner. Huge gamble for this kid. Needs a lot of work.

This is my fear with the OAD rule disappearing. After LeBron, there was a significant increase in the number of HS kids entering the draft and that was 15 years ago before YouTube and social media existed. Now, I fear that so many HS kids will have a false sense of how good they are and will ruin their lives by declaring for the draft, hiring an agent, taking impermissible benefits, being told they aren't good enough for the NBA, not able to go to school, and not able to play pro ball anywhere.

The NBA and NCAA really need to work together on this so that kids don't ruin their lives because I can already see 20+ HS kids entering the draft and doing everything to ruin their potential college careers when they aren't drafted or invited to a Summer League team.

@HighEliteMajor Carson Edwards is an interesting case. Kind of streaky.

Watch Carson and the rest of the purdue team lose their minds on the famous buzzer beater. 3-4 guys start chasing the ball down court instead of staying home and forcing a half court prayer. No way should that guy have been wide open. Heartbreaking loss for sure, but they can shoulder some of the blame for just losing their heads. And while I understand the strategy, the foul when winning by 3 in the last 10 seconds strategy took a major hit in that game.

@Texas-Hawk-10

This is sort of one of those Mitchell Robinson type cases. A talented player with a lot of ears telling him one thing and reality being another. Lecque could have technically tried to enroll in College this past year but he wouldn't have qualified at most schools. He went to Brewster for a reason (academics being the biggest). I'm not sure he would get qualified at NC St if he did go. Tennessee backed off at the end with those same concerns.

I agree that the OAD rule ending might cause an initial wave of players wanting to try and get to the league ASAP. I think it will take some time to know the year to year expectations of what kids these days may do. I think NBA GM's have gotten smarter as well. I can't imagine the College game will allow the HS ranks too many combine invites (they may have to extend the total) to meet the demand.

If the NCAA will allow the undrafted HS kids to maintain their eligibility it may not be so bad. Especially with Bill being good at pulling kids late.

dylans said:

If the NCAA will allow the undrafted HS kids to maintain their eligibility it may not be so bad. Especially with Bill being good at pulling kids late.

I think that’s where we’ll eventually wind up. Kids just have to maintain the NCAA’s version of amateur status.

Simi Shittu going pro.

OK , so as I've heard and the way I'm understanding it - -right now at this present time - -we have 1 Scholi available right? - -that's after Braun & McBride right? - -Charlie's Scholi right ?

With that being said when all is said and done - - what do we end with? - - I think we got some decent shots at some players - -I think we get ONE of these grad transfers maybe I think pretty decent shot at Stanley and Hurt - -and maybe one other of some type - I think we will still get 4 more to in some form or another -- -WHAT YOU THINK GUYS? - - rock chalk all day long baby

@jayballer73

We have 2. Only had 12 players this yr

@BeddieKU23 Unless I’ve missed something the only roster movement I know of is -Charlie -Vick +McBride +Braun. So back to 12 scholarship players (of 13) currently. 2-5 more guys will likely leave though.

BeddieKU23 said:

@jayballer73

We have 2. Only had 12 players this yr

just Curious cause I have no idea - - just read off other sites saying we just had Charlie's

@jayballer73 @dylans

You guys are right. I can't COUNT

We had Vick, Dotson, Moore, Garrett, Agbaji, Lawson & Grimes at Guard/Wing. (7)

Dedric, Azubuike, De Sousa, McCormack & Lightfoot, in the post. (5)

Vick leaves the team. Moore transfers. (-2)

Signed recruits- McBride & Braun (+2)

Technically KU has 12 scholarship players at the moment. We all know that's unlikely to stick.

Lindell Wiggington has declared with plans to hire a agent and stay in the draft.

@Woodrow Surprising figured he'd stay and be one of their man guys next year. Don't believe I've seen him on many draft boards.

@kjayhawks

He Almost left last yr. It is a bit surprising he is leaving when he had a good chance to lead them next yr

@BeddieKU23 to Port over your news from another thread. KJ gone (-1) = 11

Ok so , Charlie -now KJ so that now gives us two available right?

KJ come as no surprise for sure - -which just also just validate the point even that much more that Dedric is gone - -which we all knew anyways - -So that's for sure 3 scholi's available. - -I had been saying KJ was gone anyways - -getting married and his brother leaving - pretty close to Dedric - -had heard this quite some time ago - -If Dedric left which we know he is - -then chances were KJ was leaving - -no surprises here . -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Things not looking so hot in Ames. And yeah glass houses and whatnot but I'm still laughing.

approxinfinity said:

@BeddieKU23 to Port over your news from another thread. KJ gone (-1) = 11

Ha I was just coming to say I got the math right, just a few hours off.

@jayballer73 Yep Dedric is gone.

Is KJ gone for sure? I haven’t seen that reported anywhere...

Woodrow said:

Is KJ gone for sure? I haven’t seen that reported anywhere...

Never mind. Just saw it. No surprise to me. I expected him to leave with Dedric. I doubt Self was surprised either.

Is it just me or is the cupboard is getting pretty bare if Dok is not back? We have 5 open scholarships unless I'm missing something.

PG: Dotson
SG: Grimes (assumption)
SF: Ochai
PF: ?
C: Big Dave

G: Garrett
G: McBride
G: Braun
F: Mitch

Grimes will leave. Gonna need to add a lot of guys. Ideally 3 HS guys and a couple grad transfers.

Blackshear at VT will seek a modest fortune in Europe, like his dad did, [instead of transfering]. Not official, but he will is my guess.

I don't know why guys are just point blank proclaiming so and so will leave like it's a fact? Grimes will leave, Doke will leave, Dedric will leave, I keep hearing people say this as fact. I understand speculation. But good grief, are you texting these guys? Are you Self's bff's so he tells you everything?

BShark said:

Grimes will leave. Gonna need to add a lot of guys. Ideally 3 HS guys and a couple grad transfers.

They was talking About this on the recruiting today - -saying Grimes leaving will play a major factor in Stanley rather he comes or not.

Grimes comes back - -chances are really slim - -if Grimes leaves - -a lot better chance of him coming here. - -also said if Dixon takes the UCLA job - -that would be the best thing that could happen for anybody/everybody else that is recruiting Stanley - -more or less insinuating Dixon goes to UCLA - -Stanley won't be going there. lol

wissox said:

I don't know why guys are just point blank proclaiming so and so will leave like it's a fact? Grimes will leave, Doke will leave, Dedric will leave, I keep hearing people say this as fact. I understand speculation. But good grief, are you texting these guys? Are you Self's bff's so he tells you everything?

Let me put it to you this way - - if you think that Dedric is coming back next year? - - - - - - -let me ask you if your interested in some swamp land in Florida reasonably cheap? lmao - -he has nothing to gain here - -another year will not improve his NBA stock status very much by returning next year. - - Now with KJ transferring out - -is also a pretty good sign Dedric is gone. - -those two pretty tight , Dedric I'm sure has already informed KJ what his decision was - thus the KJ transfer - in the end run with KJ getting married he might not even end up anywhere - -just start his social life the ol grind of life - -Don't worry he won't be back.

The only reason Doke would come back would be for his degree. He for sure is not going to improve his NBA stock , and like they were talking on the show today - -he is ready to start making money - whether somebody gives him a shot just off being 7 ft and 280 lbs - - -the way he has been injury prone - -hell he isn't going to come back and risk getting hurt again - -maybe an injury that could keep him from playing NBA - -OR oversea's either one an make nothing. - -99% - -to 1% he won't be back.

Grimes of those 3 would be the most iffy. - he would be THE one with the most possibility of coming back. - -yet that happening - -with his parents in his ear - -talking to NBA personel getting feed back - in the off season getting input - -parents saying this was just an off year - - an no matter what type of season - we all should know and most do know they still draft on Potential and ceiling and the NBA still loves his potential - -good size I -have no reason to be texting any of these guys -- seems pretty simple for the reasons I mentioned. - but it's ok - -everyone can hold on to their opinions - - and eternal hope - - - - - -na he not coming back -IF he does I'd be mildly surprised , but not holding my breath. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

wissox said:

I don't know why guys are just point blank proclaiming so and so will leave like it's a fact? Grimes will leave, Doke will leave, Dedric will leave, I keep hearing people say this as fact. I understand speculation. But good grief, are you texting these guys? Are you Self's bff's so he tells you everything?

KJ announcing that he's transferring is pretty much the writing on the wall that Dedric is leaving. It's pretty much always been assumed they were a package deal and with KJ going, it's probably just a matter of time until Dedric declares.

@Texas-Hawk-10 did you think dedric would declare first?

@Crimsonorblue22 I did!

Updated the Opening Post to reflect the KJ transfer. Waiting until something official comes out regarding Dedric to update him but we all can see the writing on the wall there.

Come on grimes... do it. Leave... listen to all your people and parents... ones who’ve been telling you how great you are, your POTENTIAL... you are N.B.A. .. materiel dammit!!! Self was and is making you play in ways that are NOT conducive to your development, all that emphasis on defense and switching and setting picks and passing... these really are not needed in the NDA (the NoDefenseAssociation) that is your goal. You are wasting your time here.

Selby is by far my least fav player ever to don a KU Jersey, and grimes, you will be very close second. Do it!! I will follow your career thru whatever league you end up in... and however long you can manage to play for whatever $ you can make. Just leave KU so we can get someone who actually WANTS to play ball for KU, wants to invest their selves in college and the program.

@Bosthawk

I don't share your disdain for the players but I do share your disgust for what college basketball has become. I almost wish the roster was nothing but 3/4 stars that we can actually watch develop. It's becoming more like a pro game with massive free agency.

@Texas-Hawk-10 See you have enough sense to say it's "pretty much handwriting on the wall". You didn't say Lawson is gone for sure. I agree, he probably is, Doke, I'm not sure. Grimes? @BShark wrote it like it's a fact. It's not a fact. I want Grimes back. I have hope that he'll improve, be more experienced. We enjoyed the junior year Wayne Selden, but were all pretty frustrated with the freshman version.

@wissox Remember the Wayne dunk on Baylor when his Uncle went berserk? Remember when Paul Pierce went nuts against OU. Junior Year Great Memories. He absolutely needs to come back or Q will wind up on the "Might Have Beens Basketball Scrap Heap"

@wissox Come on man, if it's on the internet somewhere - it HAS to be true.....

Question for the board- what your take on the Lawson’s now that their one-year stint at KU is over... how will they rank for you as the years pass.. how would you assess their impact on the current program.

For me, Dedrick was pretty essential in winning games, because of the weird year we had with no doke, no desousa, the second disappearance of Vick (will we ever find out the full story in that?) but.. he always just seemed like he was doing his thing, forcing as many shots as he was scoring them, and he never felt like a team leader type. I never sensed that playing for KU for him was a big deal vs any other decent program. I never got the Love-for-KU vibe very much from him (and does that really matter?) He behaved exactly like a guy who knew all along he was here for one year, showcasing his skills in a marquee program before going pro. That is the new reality. He certainly won games for us for sure.
kJ? I wanted to like him.. he seemed a bit lost at times, but got better as the season wore on. He must have known all along it he was here just a year as well. Mercenaries comes to mind.

@Bosthawk I liked Dedric. I just didn't like him for our team. He's a piece that is good enough to win you some games but not good enough as a centerpiece. I've always wondered what he would have looked like with a full cast around him.

I think for those who point at Doke going down as the moment our dreams of title contention were dashed gloss over the fact that Doke and Dedric did not play well together. On paper, we always assumed that they would, but in reality, the lack of athleticism while still both clogging the lane, and inability to pass from both of those guys made me doubt that it would ever really gel.

Bosthawk said:

"I never got the Love-for-KU vibe very much from him (and does that really matter?)"

For me, that's one of the most important things. I LOVE the guys that come here because they've always respected KU, or the ones that get recruited who have maybe very little knowledge of KU, but quickly learn the history and grow to love it.

There's literally too many to name, but even this year, Mitch LIghtfoot is that guy. He was the Arizona player of the year and, while he's no Zion, you don't get to be the player of the year in any state without being very good. He probably could have played at a lot of schools and done very well, but he loved KU and chose to play at KU knowing his PT would probably be limited.

I want a whole dang team full of MItch Lightfoots - guys that bring the energy, have a great attitude and put the team first.

Dedric not dedrick was here 2 yrs. While he was here he won several awards. His D drove me nuts, but I believe he loved being a Jayhawk, cried like a baby after our final loss.

@nuleafjhawk NIT?

@Crimsonorblue22 HUH? Not following you ....

@Fightsongwriter That dunk was great, but his dunk against Kentucky in AFH that same season was just as great! It was against a 7 footer forget the name right now, but whoa, he threw it down!

Speaking of Selden, the Bulls pitiful roster has given him the chance to be starting right now, been holding his own.

nuleafjhawk said:

@Crimsonorblue22 HUH? Not following you ....

Team of Lightfoots = NIT

@dylans yes, I love Mitch too, but.....

@dylans What I meant was Mitch Lightfoot attitudes.

But, NIT might not have been so bad this year.....beats our one and done.

@wissox I have connections to the Grimes family (know people who know the family), don't hold your breath on Grimes coming back is my opinion on Grimes. He should come back because he needs a solid full season instead of a few games at the end of the year to show his worth, but it sounds like Grimes is dead set on being a OAD like Josh Selby was.

@Texas-Hawk-10 And we will hear his name in the news the same amount as we heard Josh's

Josh was better.

At the very least Grimes should test the waters. Like the rest of you I don’t think he is ready but perhaps there is someone in the NBA that does. With the current rules not taking the chance to get honest feedback is a bit silly.

I never gave Cheick Diallo a chance based on what we saw here, but he's putting together a decent off the bench season. Oubre, must be hurt now, but he was one of our best former Hawks in the league. Hard for me to tell sometimes who's gonna make it and who's not.

dylans said:

Josh was better.

Selby actually hasn't had a bad career over in Europe and Asia. He's been a 2× Israeli League all star and that's one of the better leagues over in Europe/Asia.

I also fully believe KU probably wins the 2012 national title with Selby on that team.

wissox said:

I never gave Cheick Diallo a chance based on what we saw here, but he's putting together a decent off the bench season. Oubre, must be hurt now, but he was one of our best former Hawks in the league. Hard for me to tell sometimes who's gonna make it and who's not.

Self just blew it with a top 5 player (Diallo). A classic Self screw up. Players that other top coaches would embrace and incorporate, Self finds an excuse to go with low talent. One of Self’s low moments and it may have cost him a NC.

@HighEliteMajor My memory is of Cheick being a very raw talent, not ready for prime time. It was a few years back, I'm not going to argue a point I don't remember much about, but my memory was not of Cheick being a key cog in a National Championship run.

@wissox diallo is just now figuring it out, he needed a lot of time. I think he'll be in the league awhile though!

@wissox He was well ready for prime time. Just needed PT to get there. Back then, folks argued with me claiming players didn’t improve during game action. Self went with his security blanket. Now Self sings a different tune. He plays a much worse player (Grimes) all season. Revisit the Nova EE game. They were able to take away Ellis, ignore LL.

We had zero rim protection with LL. Diallo had nearly four times the blocks per 40 than LL.

Diallo had a PER of 20.5. Let that sink in. There is no way to refute his production.

LL was a rebounder. Take time and compare their rebounds per 40 min. He just needed minutes to get acclimated. He needed some patience. Self gave him neither.

Diallo went to the NBA. He isn’t now just figuring it out. LL still in the BB mecca of Japan? Laughable.

He was a top 5 player. Self blew it.

It’s simply perpetuating a myth to claim that Diallo wasn’t ready. It’s indefensible.

Self played Charlie Moore more than twice the minutes as Diallo. Diallo only got 202 min all year.

It was an absolute travesty of coaching incompetence.

@HighEliteMajor :100: I'm pretty sure Self would have used Diallo this year!

:)

@approxinfinity Diallo was a bit the type of step out big that is now the rage. Not to three range but he could hit the 15 footer. LL was a serviceable sloth. On a KU roster with LL and Traylor is not a place any big would want to be ... at least a few years ago. I think Self would do it differently now if the same situation presented itself.

I’m confused.

Why beat a dead horse in front of the choir you’ve been preaching to for years while claiming to turn over a new leaf?

Dedric gone according to Goodman. In the least surprising news of the year

Come on down, literally anyone that can play the 4 and stretch the court. Dont know who it will be

BeddieKU23 said:

Come on down, literally anyone that can play the 4 and stretch the court. Dont know who it will be

Hurt

Well, Self certainly has minutes for him.

@BShark Getting a top recruit is huge right now, while we languish in NCAA/Adidas/Self-created limbo.

Oubre is one of the most maddening OADs we've had IMO. He was interviewed and ran his mouth before the WSU game and then just stood around. I definitely remember twice where we had a run started and he just flat out refused to get on the floor for a couple of balls and we in turn didn't get them. Diallo's athletic ability was never in question, dude just had to learn how to ball, him and Selby are both first rounders of they stay for another year IMO.

@kjayhawks Diallo and Selby are mine. If Diallo stays for 16-17 we absolutely run everyone. We start NPOY Frank and designated sniper Devonte, then the fun starts. We can go small and start Svi at the 3, Josh at the 4, and Cheick at the 5, or Josh at the 3, Cheick at the 4, and Landen at the 5. Either way we’re great. And you’d still have Bragg and Doke as your backup bigs. Cheick would’ve been the perfect matchup for Jordan Bell and Oregon. What could’ve been.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Officially official

Opening Post has been updated to reflect D. Lawson's departure.

Rock Chalk to Dedric. Had I known him longer I think I'd be more mushy now. I was sad to see Perry retire a Jayhawk after 35 years of playing basketball at AFH. Another guy with old man game. Perry also had a great sense of humor. Loved his vine account. I digress.

Dedric were the man this year, and it's a shame we didn't have more pieces to compliment him. I have been a harsh critic, but I wish him the best. He's conducted himself with class, and I echo his sentiment. Jayhawk for life! Thanks and Rock Chalk.

FarmerJayhawk said:

@kjayhawks Diallo and Selby are mine. If Diallo stays for 16-17 we absolutely run everyone. We start NPOY Frank and designated sniper Devonte, then the fun starts. We can go small and start Svi at the 3, Josh at the 4, and Cheick at the 5, or Josh at the 3, Cheick at the 4, and Landen at the 5. Either way we’re great. And you’d still have Bragg and Doke as your backup bigs. Cheick would’ve been the perfect matchup for Jordan Bell and Oregon. What could’ve been.

You make the assumption that Self would have started him over LL. Logical in all worlds except the one we live. I have zero faith that would have occurred. Diallo was the perfect match vs Nova in the 16 EE. And he sat. NC chance down the drain.

HighEliteMajor said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

@kjayhawks Diallo and Selby are mine. If Diallo stays for 16-17 we absolutely run everyone. We start NPOY Frank and designated sniper Devonte, then the fun starts. We can go small and start Svi at the 3, Josh at the 4, and Cheick at the 5, or Josh at the 3, Cheick at the 4, and Landen at the 5. Either way we’re great. And you’d still have Bragg and Doke as your backup bigs. Cheick would’ve been the perfect matchup for Jordan Bell and Oregon. What could’ve been.

You make the assumption that Self would have started him over LL. Logical in all worlds except the one we live. I have zero faith that would have occurred. Diallo was the perfect match vs Nova in the 16 EE. And he sat. NC chance down the drain.

We would've gone with 2 bigs, Cheick and Landen.

@FarmerJayhawk I don't know. You have more faith than I do. But my opinion, no team is winning a national title starting a LL at center. As discussed back in the day, ATHLETE -- LL just had matchups where he was horribly exposed. '16 Nova, '17 Oregon as examples. You know, the most important games of the season.

Back when LL was on the team, I think we looked back over Self's tenure and could only locate maybe one NC team with a similar post handicap, thinking Louisville maybe 2013? My LL/Traylor notebook is in storage maybe.

PJ Washington _ UK
Jared Harper - Auburn

Both declared today.

Notable not declaration: Ashton Hagans.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Notable not declaration: Ashton Hagans.

Lack of a jump shot seems like something that may keep him another year in KY. Just wonder how him and Maxey will coexist though

BeddieKU23 said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

Notable not declaration: Ashton Hagans.

Lack of a jump shot seems like something that may keep him another year in KY. Just wonder how him and Maxey will coexist though

It does seem like an unforeseen circumstance. I have to think one of him or Quickley is not on that roster in a year.0

Grimes is at least testing, and probably gone for good.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Quote from Self. He’s gone for good.

I don't believe this to be a smart move on Grimes part but Good luck to him. Remember we are jayhawks everyone, I hate when I see our fans bashing our guys social media.

@kjayhawks Is this social media?

I bash the continued failure of Self bringing in presumed OADs. This was a complete failure. A complete waste of time.

I sure wish Grimes would have stayed.

The presumed use of KU as a pit stop has NEVER paid the anticipated dividends for KU, except maybe JJ — but there was no FF even there.

We need to focus on non-OADs, and commit to those non-OADs that we will never recruit over them with a presumed OAD. But I’ve said that for quite a while now.

@HighEliteMajor No, this is not social media lol and I agree that the OADs have mostly been failures here. I just don't like seeing people target these young guys for following their dreams even if I disagree with the Decision. Dook fans have been hammering, I mean hammering bad at RJ Barrett for turning pro. We are better than that.

@kjayhawks agree 100%. I honestly not sure he even gets drafted. If he wants to move on and pursue his dream then so be it.

@kjayhawks I agree 100% too. Everyone is should be entitled to make money, leave college, do what they want, when they want.

It’s his choice, but it sure seems like an unbelievably stupid one.

@HighEliteMajor
“We need to focus on non-OADs, and commit to those non-OADs that we will never recruit over them with a presumed OAD. But I’ve said that for quite a while now.”

I’m in 100% ageeement. Welcome to the G league
Quentin... at best. Here’s betting that he will never see a full season on an NBA court.

When self and the staff go recruiting, listen to the messages coming from the family. and if it’s all about playing their kid playing pro ball as fast as possible, move along.

...and my love affair with college b-ball continues to die a long, slow death.

How will KU recover from losing the actual worst rotation player on the team?

@Blown
Well compared to anything else, it appears we may have to hang in there ...( maybe the chiefs will win the super bowl next year... ? )
there are still players who come here for the right reasons... there still is SOME good. Dook, Kentucky and North Carolina did not even make the final four. !! (Trying to cheer you up..) The greatest OAD in many years, Zion the Marketable, with a STUD cast around him, couldn’t put dook in the final four.

Self said he is more energized than ever. Let’s see what kind of coaching and leading he can pull off now. I doubt too many top 25 kids will pick us what with the ncaa cloud. F em...
We still have some KU guys who will most likely play 3 or 4 years... we will get to see them at senior nite !!
Let’s go get hungry guys who will bleed crimson and blue.
No more Grimes types, PLEASE... a 19 yr old who has been given spectacularly bad advice from his fam and circle.

Let's talk about noted KU fan RJ Hampton. We should pay what it takes.

4 guys now either gone to the draft or transferring. Maybe more to come. I can’t believe I’m saying this but is this a situation where there is smoke there is fire? Do these kids know that KU is going to be in some sort of legal trouble this year. Please let that just be my paranoia.

At the beginning of the season, Grimes was the player I was most excited to see in a jersey. Now he's the probable departure I feel most ambivalent about. If he's gone, meh. I'll regret all the time I spent screaming at him to move his butt on D and go get a rebound.

@joeloveshawks They were all leaving anyway.

The FBI crap did cost us JRE though.

@BShark who is JRE?

We invested an entire year for nothing with Grimes. Nothing. No return investment. If anything the perception of a OAD having a poor year at KU again or whatever it will say does enough damage. Oh well. KU doesnt ever have enough successful NBA Players to cover the ones like Grimes and many others over the years. Just get out of the game of these kids.

As I've suspected when he was pre season top 10 the outside influences got into q and his family, maybe even before. No matter the season he was going to leave.

I wish him luck. He goes down as a huge bust given the commitment. Some kids are not ready to be stars off the bat. Another season could have helped both sides. Instead we again lose a player early that has a real uphill battle at an NBA career

joeloveshawks said:

4 guys now either gone to the draft or transferring. Maybe more to come. I can’t believe I’m saying this but is this a situation where there is smoke there is fire? Do these kids know that KU is going to be in some sort of legal trouble this year. Please let that just be my paranoia.

I don't think so. This was always a possibility entering the season. The only departure so far that wasn't really discussed back in the summer was Moore. Both Lawson's were discussed as a possibility, Grimes was an assumed OAD, and Doke and SDS were also discussed as possible early exits as well.

This is just playing put as worst case scenario for maximum departures.

there is SATILL a possibility for 2 more. IF that turns out to be the case - -that is SEVEN available that's insane. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Blown

Amen.

Between these one-and-dones and the situational officiating, I've really become cynical.

I even picked Virginia to win the NC because I figured the NCAA would want to take the sting out of last year's historic loss and get an exciting story line.

Virginia was not the best team in their conference, and I don't think you can even say that they "caught lightening in a bottle" in March and rode a wave to the championship.

No, that was more Texas Tech, which won the first 4 games by a huge 15 pt average margin of victory. And then beat Mich State by 10.

Virginia's average margin of Victory for the first 4 games was 9.5. Then they beat Auburn by 1.

Yet somehow, Virginia won it all.

In Wednesday's WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-most-unlikely-story-ever-how-virginia-pulled-off-the-improbableagain-11554817507 ↗ An article was devoted to the statistical anomaly of Virginia's late game comebacks:
1) Virginia beat Purdue after trailing by 3 points with 17 seconds left, when they had a 9% chance of winning. They had to hit a shot as time expired to force overtime.
"No team that would go on to win a national championship in at least the last decade had ever come back from such an improbable position in the tournament."

2) Next game they had a 4% chance of winning. Auburn led 61-57 with 17 seconds left, and by 2 points with 1 second left. Of course, the foul on the 3-pt attempt bailed out Virginia.

3) In the championship vs Texas Tech, win probability was 11.7% when Virginia was down 3 with 22 seconds left.

Chances of pulling off all three comebacks (9%, 4% and 11.7%) in succession is 0.04% -- roughly 1 in 2500.

But that's just to win the championship.

Consider how likely it is to be the first 1-seed to lose to a 16-seed and then win the championship the next year -- not to mention, to do it in such an unlikely way.

I'm kind of an Ocham's razor kind of guy. Is the most likely explanation of this the "natural randomness of life", or is it that things were unnaturally nudged?

Or maybe God just loves Virginia Basketball.

BShark said:

How will KU recover from losing the actual worst rotation player on the team?

Qharlie Grimoore?

@bskeet great post! I do think Tony Bennett had those guys defying all odds. Its the sign of a great coach. Much like KU down 9 with 2 minutes to go against Memphis. Bill Self and his players never burned so bright.

Updated the OP to reflect Grimes' seemingly all-in declaration to move on and try to play in the NBA. Thats 4 Open spots to fill that aren't spoken for yet and high likelihood of at least one more. Yikes.

@RockkChalkk 2 of them are spoken for.

approxinfinity said:

@RockkChalkk 2 of them are spoken for.

There are definitely 4 open scholarships right now. The two commits account for Vick and the previously vacant scholarship. It's gonna get wild and tough.

RE Grimes there is a rumor that he didn't even attend a class all 2nd semester. And, not even surprising here that his dad and handler still believe he is an NBA LEVEL PG (I know...I know...) and that Self mishandled him.

@BShark When LeGerald Vick is in Memphis tending to necessary personal business ... uh, allegedly ... my guess is that young man isn't attending classes either.

What gives?

Self's only mishandling of Grimes was not sitting his tail on the bench. I'm not sure what else you can do for a kid.

HighEliteMajor said:

Self's only mishandling of Grimes was not sitting is tail on the bench. I'm not sure what else you can do for a kid.

Exactly. Just goes to show that some people are going to think what they will, and no evidence can change that. Grimes lacked the speed to play PG at the D1 level, let alone the NBA level. Honestly Grimes' speed made him a 3/wing, if anything. You are what you can defend.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

@Crimsonorblue22 waaay too long of an article for an ex-Jayhawk who never produced in his one year. If he comes back I’ll read it with interest.

Jaxson Hayes from Texas declared today

Woodrow said:

Jaxson Hayes from Texas declared today

Makes sense. He’s a top 10 prospect. Then there are the KU guys. 🤦‍♂️

@dylans what are his stats at Texas?

@Crimsonorblue22 A 6’11” springy athlete. 10pts 5 rebs, but more importantly 4.3 win shares, 27 PER. Lots of upside, no reason to get exposed in college.

Grimes is a non-athlete. 8 pts 2.5 rebs, 2 asts. 1.4 win shares, 8.7 PER. He wasn’t good according to advanced stats or the eye test, even though his points per game and rebs+assists are very similar in stats to Hayes. If he thinks he can play better he should come back and improve his draft stock. If he thinks he’s been exposed, he had better go while his HS reputation still means something.

I know which one I would take as an NBA gm if those were my two choices.

@dylans I wasn't comparing them. Shaka just doesn't seem to get his bigs to score much

@Crimsonorblue22 Shaka sucks. He’s wasted 3 straight loto big men

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@dylans I wasn't comparing them. Shaka just doesn't seem to get his bigs to score much

Sorry crim, I figured you were making a statement since his stats are readily available.

If you're a 1st round pick, leaving is a no brainer. If you are a 2nd round pick, I think leaving is probably the right decision. That's a lot of money still. If you actually do latch on to the roster, it's millions and you're set for life as long as you aren't an idiot. You're very likely to make 6 figures overseas even if the NBA doesn't pan out for you as a 2nd rounder.

All in all, you should become very rich playing basketball if you are projected to get drafted in either round.

If you are not guaranteed to get drafted, I think it is very very very very very stupid to leave. Get your degree or bust your tail for a summer and get yourself in a position to be guaranteed a lot of money to play basketball in the coming years.

I don't have a problem with OADs. But I will say that Grimes is going to go down as one of the most disappointing players we have ever had step foot in the Fieldhouse wearing the Home Whites. Which is really sad.

@Kcmatt7

Great post.

Cam Reddish declares for the draft.

@kjayhawks If that is so....Hammering RJ Barrett is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. He was a presumed sure fire OAD when he stepped foot on campus . And...he is going to be a lottery pick.

@Kcmatt7 Second round picks don't have guaranteed contracts and don't sign for enough to be set for life if that's their only contract which does happen. Playing pro ball in Europe doesn't make one rich either unless you're among the best of the best in Europe.

The only reason a projected second round pick should stay in the draft is of their projected to be undrafted the next year if they stay.

Grimes is an example of someone who should not be leaving at this point. If he's even drafted, it'll be a non guaranteed deal. Based in how he was playing at the end of this past season, had he stayed for his sophomore year and built off those last few games, he likely would've played himself into being a first round pick instead of the second round/undrafted player he will likely be this offseason.

You know what they say about that ugly gal? I wouldn’t draft Grimes with your pick.

My take on Grimes, and this may come as blasphemy to some, is that Hudy should have changed it up with him. I know at this age the normal thing is to increase strength. It is the rare case that enough base strength is there already, yet I think with Grimes if you look at him that was the case. He would have been better off on a program that lightened his weight. He would have been quicker and possibly had better stamina which may have helped his jumper.

@dylans no what?

@BigBad I could be way wrong on this, I've been wrong before. I never perceived that his problem was anything physical - looked like he had what it takes to play the game.

But he just never looked "all there" to me. Like he was thinking about his girlfriend, or what to post on facebook, or what was for dinner that evening. Just always seemed like he wasn't mentally prepared.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@dylans no what?

You are truly blessed if you haven’t heard and I won’t be the one to tell you. Wait! I mean the saying!!! Nothing more, please don’t read into this. You're beautiful human being. Yikes. I’m done.

Devon Dotson declares with an agent. We will see whether he returns

If Dotson is gone, yea, we’re going to struggle. I don’t think he is though.

WOOF

BShark said:

WOOF

Come on down RJ Hamp, oh wait probably go to Memphis followed by
Duke, followed by some random team not recruiting him with cash

His comment said he was keeping full ncaa eligibility so I would not say he was gone quite this quick. I would say he was doing the smart thing personally.

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Bill-Self-KU-supports-Devon-Dotsons-NBA-testing-decision-131145689/ ↗

Crimsonorblue22 said:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Bill-Self-KU-supports-Devon-Dotsons-NBA-testing-decision-131145689/ ↗

Yep. Sure sounds like he's done at KU forever and ever. /s

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

WOOF

Come on down RJ Hamp, oh wait probably go to Memphis followed by
Duke, followed by some random team not recruiting him with cash

I Just said the same thing. -- If Devon does well enough in the NBA combine nd decides to stay in - -with him and Grimes both gone - leaves the door WIDE OPEN for Hampton to step right in - - major minutes. - Only thing is he said he would love to play with other elite talent? - - - - must be talking about mitch - -lmao - -but wait Mitch going to be playing point next year - -Garrett playing the 2 - -where would we play him lmao

After seeing this - - wouldn't surprise me at all - - Ochai see's what's returning and HE declares for the NBA - I mean hell why not? - -heard the trainer is declaring for the NBA might as well lol

Hearing breaking news just now.

KU ball boy John Doe declares for NBA draft with intent to sign an agent.

When asked why he is forgoing his NCAA Eligibility with 3 years left, John cited KU's 2018 2019 struggles with shooting the ball.

"Too much work tracking down missed shots this year". " In the NBA These guys make shots at a higher rate and I think I'll able to score a few autographs over time".

" great opportunity for the kid" was Self's comment when we caught up with him outside Allen Fieldhouse.

Self was confident his program could absorb the loss citing the ever growing transfer market these days. " we will get a few real guys in here".

John was asked where he'd like to play, saying "LA of course, Lebron is out there, they tryin to get AD and some others". Magic is gone, Walton is gone but they will rebound.

John thanked KU for his time as a Jayhawk, "God put me in a great position to have a successful career and of course Bill Self, a Hall of Fame coach has put me in the best position possible as well". "Look at all the guys in the league"

John becomes the 18th program member to leave since the shocking 2nd round defeat against Auburn in the NCAA tournament. Currently KU has just two recruits signed for the 2019 2020 season. Self mentioned they are busy on the recruiting trail this time of year.

BeddieKU23 said:

Hearing breaking news just now.

KU ball boy John Doe declares for NBA draft with intent to sign an agent.

When asked why he is forgoing his NCAA Eligibility with 3 years left, John cited KU's 2018 2019 struggles with shooting the ball.

"Too much work tracking down missed shots this year". " In the NBA These guys make shots at a higher rate and I think ill able to score a few autographs over time".

" great opportunity for the kid" was Self's comment when we caught up with him outside Allen Fieldhouse.

Self was confident his program could absorb the loss citing the ever growing transfer market these days. " we will get a few real guys in here".

John was asked where he'd like to play, saying "LA of course, Lebron is out there, they tryin to get AD and some others". Magic is gone, Walton is gone but they will rebound.

John thanked KU for his time as a Jayhawk, "God put me in a great position to have a successful career and of course Bill Self, a Hall of Fame coach has put me in the best position possible."

John becomes the 18th program member to leave since the shocking 2nd round defeat against Auburn in the NCAA tournament. Currently KU has just two recruits signed for the 2019 2020 season. Self mentioned they are busy on the recruiting trail this time of year

Dam you beat me to the punch - -I said the Trainer going to declare. - like I said wouldn't surprise me - Ochai see's who is returning and HE declares - wouldn't surprise me at all

@jayballer73 , @BeddieKU23 - Any rumors on the guys selling soft drinks and food? You guys are hilarious!!

Gorilla72 said:

@jayballer73 , @BeddieKU23 - Any rumors on the guys selling soft drinks and food? You guys are hilarious!!

lmao - - not yet - - -stand by - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@BeddieKU23 Good stuff!

FarmerJayhawk said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Bill-Self-KU-supports-Devon-Dotsons-NBA-testing-decision-131145689/ ↗

Yep. Sure sounds like he's done at KU forever and ever. /s

You about gave me a heart attack. I thought a new statement had been released.

I need a sarcasm font.

dylans said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Bill-Self-KU-supports-Devon-Dotsons-NBA-testing-decision-131145689/ ↗

Yep. Sure sounds like he's done at KU forever and ever. /s

You about gave me a heart attack. I thought a new statement had been released.

I need a sarcasm font.

I tried with the /s man!!

Welcome to Kansas.

Where you dont even need to play to declare for the draft.

http://m.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/15/ku-sophomore-silvio-de-sousa-facing-potentially-im/ ↗

All out redicilous

@BeddieKU23 Are you referring Grimes? Hold on, I’m being told Grimes actually DID play this past season.

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 Are you referring Grimes? Hold on, I’m being told Grimes actually DID play this past season.

I can confirm he played, he just didn't play very well.

I guess when you play at KU now your so famous and good playing in games isn't even required to try and make the NBA

BeddieKU23 said:

Welcome to Kansas.

Where you dont even need to play to declare for the draft.

http://m.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/15/ku-sophomore-silvio-de-sousa-facing-potentially-im/ ↗

All out redicilous

Do you blame him? Might as well go through the process while the NCAA decides whether you get to play this decade.

FarmerJayhawk said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Welcome to Kansas.

Where you dont even need to play to declare for the draft.

http://m.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/15/ku-sophomore-silvio-de-sousa-facing-potentially-im/ ↗

All out redicilous

Do you blame him? Might as well go through the process while the NCAA decides whether you get to play this decade.

I dont blame him at all but if this is what playing for KU has become, I'm not impressed. Such as life as a fan these days. Silvio has been screwed every which way this year. Shocked he didnt leave already

@BeddieKU23 at least he can show himself. Not a lot of choices for him.

If Silvio can’t play for KU next year he needs to figure out his best course of action. The feedback will be invaluable to his decision making process.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 at least he can show himself. Not a lot of choices for him.

Show himself where? Very unlikely he's getting a combine invite. Maybe he gets a few workouts.

@BeddieKU23 Just curious - why do you feel like he won't get an invite?

nuleafjhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 Just curious - why do you feel like he won't get an invite?

Only about 60 guys, give or take a few, get invited. I very much doubt Silvio cracks the 60 most intriguing players. It's not out of the question, but it's also very unlikely imo.

Besides the 60 guys getting mocked, you have guys going undrafted I know teams will want to see more than Silvio. Kerwin Roach, Martin Brothers, Luke Maye, Donta Hall, Matur Maker.

Throw in some guys from overseas. Throw in a few more guys that inexplicably leave.

I think it will be very hard for Silvio to make the cut as he is not elite size, and has not shown any ability the NBA is currently coveting.

@Kcmatt7 but those that don't get invited, don't they still get some feedback of some sort? I'm pretty sure they know they won't get in that 60.

@Kcmatt7 Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering, because everyone (KU fans) made such a big deal about him the past ....hundred years - however long it's been since he's been our pine rider. I thought he was supposed to be like Zion if he ever got to lace up.

nuleafjhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 Just curious - why do you feel like he won't get an invite?

For starters the fact he didn't play last year.

I was optimistic about his potential this past season and felt his absence was as big as losing Doke. He just fit what the team needed down low.

@Crimsonorblue22 Yes, it does let them get some feedback usually.

KU basketball banquet tonight at 6:30, I believe. Maybe some announcements regarding staying or going?

Anyone going?

Gorilla72 said:

KU basketball banquet tonight at 6:30, I believe. Maybe some announcements regarding staying or going?

Anyone going?

Who's left to go? Everyone but the mail man has left already

I fully expect Garrett to declare his intentions at the banquet.

BeddieKU23 said:

nuleafjhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 Just curious - why do you feel like he won't get an invite?

For starters the fact he didn't play last year.

I was optimistic about his potential this past season and felt his absence was as big as losing Doke. He just fit what the team needed down low.

You know - - I dunno , but for some reason I'm just stating to think that just MAYBE - DOKE does come back. - - Didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell at 1st BUT - - I mean why hasn't he announced already? - -you would of thought that with the way I was thinking and a lot of others were thinking that beyond a doubt he was gone - -If DOKE was the same train of thought - he would of just came right out and said I'm declaring.

I think like has been mentioned , with his injury I don't think he will be available for the Combine - and as we know that's pretty much an informational thing. Well he was told LAST year what he needed to work on - - well with his season injury didn't get that chance to work on it. So nothing has changed in that perspective

Probably crazy - -just starting to feel Maybe. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

BeddieKU23 said:

Gorilla72 said:

KU basketball banquet tonight at 6:30, I believe. Maybe some announcements regarding staying or going?

Anyone going?

Who's left to go? Everyone but the mail man has left already Silvio and DOKE that's it - -right? - -Garrett isn't going anywhere - not really sure his name has EVER been brought into that conversation. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@dylans I hope he declares his intentions to get a jump shot.

Fightsongwriter said:

@dylans I hope he declares his intentions to get a jump shot.

You win the internet for this week! Bravo

When is the deadline to declare and back out to maintain your eligibility? I know it’s on here but I can’t find it. Thanks

rockchalkwyo said:

When is the deadline to declare and back out to maintain your eligibility? I know it’s on here but I can’t find it. Thanks

Late May I think? Something like the 25th. And you go undrafted you can return to school starting this year.

Does hiring an agent still mean that you waive your eligibility?

@approxinfinity no it just has to be a NCAA approved agent

We are a faaaar cry away from games like this: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2003-03-29-arizona.html ↗

So many pros in this game and many were JR/SR.

BShark said:

We are a faaaar cry away from games like this: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2003-03-29-arizona.html ↗

So many pros in this game and many were JR/SR.

Can we talk for a second about how Kirk took 17 3’s

Well it looks as though we will be finding out by Monday morning at the latest on Doke and also will play a big part about the decision of Silvio's future at KU. - Sunday Night is the deadline for a player to declare early for the NBA draft - So if either Doke or Silvio is going to declare - -they have to have it done by Sunday Night. - -So I guess we will know if Doke OR Silvio declares. If Silvio doesn't - -then he may just ride it out - -see how this appeal goes.

Speaking of that Matt had a pretty good article trying to break down Silvio's appeal and the time frame. - He also talked about WHY it had taken KU 75 days to actually file the appeal - -which I thought they had already doen, and then when I saw that they had just filed I was thinking what the hell - -but he explains why - -makes sense.

I'm still starting to think more and more that Doke might just actually return next year but I wouldn't bet the farm on it - -we will see - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

EJ Montgomery declared for the draft from UK. Although I think he is more so just trying to get feedback...

@Bosthawk

I feel your frustration. I agree that I want players who put KU and their opportunity to play for KU paramount.

But I draw the line getting down too hard on Grimes. I don't think he ever pretended to be a huge KU fan. He was a guy that came into Lawrence "hyped up" and ranked. That is what we get for gambling on him.

As long as we play this concept of putting much of our eggs in the "elite basket" we can expect to have more of the same. I guarantee you this happens at all the elite schools who are busy recruiting elites.

I know I'm becoming more of a Virginia fan every single day! I hope Bennett doesn't use his new added prestige on going towards higher recruits and selling out his damn-good model on how to coach D1!

But I'm not the normal D1 basketball fan. I'm a basketball geek who loves defense... loves rebounding!

It's hard to say how Grimes will turn out. He may end up in the league and fulfill the hype forecast. And then we will all say, "See! He didn't try at Kansas! He merely used us to get to the next level!"

From what I have seen of Grimes, he isn't anywhere near ready to dribble on a NBA court. But that doesn't mean he won't be later, and that later could be within a year!

When these kids get hyped up they get a free pass to an opportunity at the next level. That means they get exposed to the developmental tools to get there. Money fuels all of this, and marketing creates money! A hyped kid is already floating around with followers, dreamers and the like.

I've read plenty about Grimes. He sure seems like a really good kid! I advise rethinking all of this. The problems are in the system. Not the kids. In fact... even the players that seem the worst... there is a reason why they are the way they are. It's a little too much to just expect these teenagers to be wise beyond their years, spiritual, and without any tarnish from the fairytale existences they have suffered with their entire lives!

I'm back coaching kids basketball. The problems start far before a kid dribbles a basketball. I personally went through this with my son, who within his first year of life was projected to be in the top 2% in height. That built all kinds of fairytale thoughts in my head. I'm back to reality now and I will accept him for who he is and what makes him happy!

Smelling sauce, anyone?!

@drgnslayr

Since the title win UVA picked up a recruit that was ranked #400 when Penn State first had him. He got out and opened his recruitment up and now is the #200 ranked player committed to UVA.

UVA also has the 57th recruit (out of NC), and the 59th guy, from Washington D.C. So two very solid guys from their backyard and a project. I expect Bennett to start recruiting better.

You already see Jay Wright having to take "Presumed OADs" now because of holes created by guys leaving he didn't expect. It's the nature of the beast. Success breeds success, but also higher expectations. Both for yourself and from fans...

Kcmatt7 said:

UVA also has the 57th recruit (out of NC), and the 59th guy, from Washington D.C. So two very solid guys from their backyard and a project. I expect Bennett to start recruiting better.

You already see Jay Wright having to take "Presumed OADs" now because of holes created by guys leaving he didn't expect. It's the nature of the beast. Success breeds success, but also higher expectations. Both for yourself and from fans...

Yeah I don't see Wright taking Quinerly without all the departures. He was not the type of character player he usually takes and as we saw his antics didn't last long.

Wright and his staff spend a lot of time identifying talent and getting guys that fit their culture. They win a few championships and all of sudden the type of players they are recruiting changes because of departures and visibility. They developed success and it came back to haunt them after the last championship. Hard to plan for even with planning

🐦 View Tweet

Nick Ward is super done.

@BShark He heard Doke might be coming back.

Silvio has declared for the NBA Draft - - yet if he wins his appeal - his attorney and him says he will be coming back. - Just read this off the phog

jayballer73 said:

Silvio has declared for the NBA Draft - - yet if he wins his appeal - his attorney and him says he will be coming back. - Just read this off the phog

From Matt Tait so definitely legit.

BShark said:

jayballer73 said:

Silvio has declared for the NBA Draft - - yet if he wins his appeal - his attorney and him says he will be coming back. - Just read this off the phog

From Matt Tait so definitely legit.

yep. - -it doesn't surprise me - would be a smart move - -what if he stays out and doesn't declare he would be screwed - doesn't hurt to declare

BShark said:

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Nick Ward is super done.

Never to be heard from again tbh

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

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Nick Ward is super done.

Never to be heard from again tbh

Bosnia is looking for bigs.

Silvio asking for feedback should be quick.

Report should start and end with, you didn't play. Come back when you actually played

jayballer73 said:

Silvio has declared for the NBA Draft - - yet if he wins his appeal - his attorney and him says he will be coming back. - Just read this off the phog

This is what he should do.

BeddieKU23 said:

Silvio asking for feedback should be quick.

Report should start and end with, you didn't play. Come back when you actually played

Tait was trying to break this appeal down - - - if he falls under one part of appeal says usually takes a bout 7 days read somewhere else should be pretty quick decision

Cassius Winston stays at MSU. They'll probably be a deserving preseason #1

Langford back. Winston back. Yea, they'll be good.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

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Nick Ward is super done.

Never to be heard from again tbh

Bosnia is looking for bigs.

Maybe find Preston there chillen

Kcmatt7 said:

Langford back. Winston back. Yea, they'll be good.

And tilmon

Kcmatt7 said:

I expect Bennett to start recruiting better.

I think he recruits the right guys for his system.

He's starting to figure out that he still needs some offense to win titles. I'll tell you one thing... he puts Self to shame when it comes to playing "BAD BALL." No "offense" to Self... but UVA used to like games in the 50s, and once in a while they get one in the 40s.

I'm still surprised no D1 coaches have figured out how to find some real rough-cut diamond future defensive specialists... For those, go to D1 football recruits and look at defensive backs. Many of those guys that are just under being the top but are multi-dimensional athletes would be great pickups. If Self really ends up with many holes next year he should pick up a couple. They will toughen up the entire team and make all our guys better on offense, too, because no more easy baskets in practice.

Football players have different attitudes... especially defensive players. There are plenty of these uber athletes out there that run 6'2" or taller and can jump out of the gym.

Look at our prized Garrett. He sort of fits this mold. I'd love to have a couple Garretts on our team.

Remember Clint Normore? He made a HUGE difference on our NC '88 team!

Doke has one more day to declare for the draft.

Was just thrown for a bit of a loop...I turned on the TV to watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on CBC Hockey Night In Canada, and the first face I see is Quentin Grimes!
Didn't realize he has a half-brother who plays for Winnipeg. The network was doing a feature on the two. If Q makes it in the league (a BIG if in my book), they'd be the first pair of brothers to play in the NHL and NBA.

@nwhawkfan

It's frustrating... but don't be surprised if he makes it in the league, at least as a reserve.

Reality will set in with Q before long. No more easy street cred. From here on out, his game will do the talkin'. That's the first reality to come for these young guys. There is a million guys that "came close" out there. It's a brutal awakening... the NBA clock starts now and it's a short clock. Q has to get hooked up with someone to develop. If he picks his agent right, the agent will set him up, or a team who is interested will. The real work starts now. No time to goof off. No time for KU classes. Just train. We will quickly see if he can really stand a chance. Within 6 months his body should look completely different. No more pudgy thighs! Right now he is a full step behind any NBA player.

@drgnslayr He was a full step behind A LOT of college players. He may be 3 steps behind the ave. NBA player.

Edited OP to reflect Enaruna commitment.

@RockkChalkk Just saw the thinking emoji next to Grimes NBA. That's quality work. :joy: