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Shin?

Broken ankle

BShark said:

Broken ankle

ya Coach said surgery probably - - redshirt

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

Broken ankle

ya Coach said surgery probably - - redshirt

Yes likely to redshirt

Injury bug hits every season

Honestly Enaruna passed him so it’s not a huge hit for this team. But losing this year developing is big.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Honestly Enaruna passed him so it’s not a huge hit for this team. But losing this year developing is big.

Tristan is better than I dreamed he could be at this stage.

Mitch should play 9 is not enough to go the grind. We see it every season when injuries hit

How did it happen?

BeddieKU23 said:

Mitch should play 9 is not enough to go the grind. We see it every season when injuries hit

We need another guard/wing type more than we do Mitch at this point. We have enough for a Bill Self rotation but barely.

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Clip of when he broke it

One of those freak accidents, wasn’t doing anything but cutting. I would imagine he will get a redshirt, no sense in only playing the last month of the season when he won’t be able to do much. I Really was looking forward to seeing both him and Enrauna develop and play at the 4. Gotta be tough for the young fella.

@DanR thx!

JAYHAWKFAN214 said:

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

Broken ankle

ya Coach said surgery probably - - redshirt

Yes likely to redshirt

Coach Self said final decision hadn't been made - -BUT bad enough for surgery - means pretty serious break - I'm sure redshirt

kjayhawks said:

One of those freak accidents, wasn’t doing anything but cutting. I would imagine he will get a redshirt, no sense in only playing the last month of the season when he won’t be able to do much. I Really was looking forward to seeing both him and Enrauna develop and play at the 4. Gotta be tough for the young fella.

ya that's one thing that just blew my mind. - -I was wondering - -well Wilson must really be deep in a hole cause I didn't even see him touch the floor. - -Then to hear he had broke his foot , I thought what the hell. - -The announcers must not of seen it either they said nothing about anyone getting hurt - He was only on the floor for 27 seconds. - -Just couldn't figure HOW the hell he break it

DanR said:

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WOW - - -crazy -- simple cut

Take a look, you can see his his left foot roll over his toes at an angle out. That mechanism would seem to indicate more of a foot type injury vs. the ankle. Surgery likely means a small bone or bones. But they are clearly saying the ankle which is really weird looking at it. Crazy freak injury.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Mitch should play 9 is not enough to go the grind. We see it every season when injuries hit

We need another guard/wing type more than we do Mitch at this point. We have enough for a Bill Self rotation but barely.

Horrible situation to be in already. Self will have to play Braun and let him work through some things. Enaruna was already getting a big role and I think that continues. Feel for Jalen, hope for a speedy recovery

What happened to end that play? I can't believe the announcers didn't say a word! I saw him at the scorers table, getting ready to check in, but that's it. Did he have to limp like that all the way to the bench?

I'm pretty sure he'll go for the medical RS. Hard to see a plus in this except that he'll age a year in our system. He should keep all 4 years intact. He should heal up well from this. Tough break. Wish the best for him...

Crimsonorblue22 said:

What happened to end that play? I can't believe the announcers didn't say a word! I saw him at the scorers table, getting ready to check in, but that's it. Did he have to limp like that all the way to the bench?

that's what I was saying too - I don't think the announcers even caught it till afterwards a little later when they seen him in the boot.

ya if you see as soon as he broke back out to the side line he limped and instantly raised his hand and hobbled off

Wilson wasn’t ready, this may be a blessing in disguise, if he sticks around all 5 years. I sure wish Mitch would’ve redshirted earlier (or not at all).

Jalen had surgery today. His Mom tweeted out that everything went well.

Bill said today that Jalen and his family agreed to redshirt this season. Smart decision based on the recovery and time lost.

Hopeful he makes a full recovery and comes back next season ready to help the team!

Nice. Glad he got to do that.

approxinfinity said:

Nice. Glad he got to do that.

If Jalen was still at KU or in school by the end of this 4th year I'm sure he would be granted the medical redshirt if needed. I wonder if they have to apply early or its just a "redshirt" needed if the time comes to extend his eligibility.

I hate the RIP

@Crimsonorblue22

Rapid Improvement Program

@BeddieKU23 Best part about this is it signifies that he is pretty locked in to KU.

@BShark

Good point I hope he sticks. I still think he's going to be a good one.

@BeddieKU23 yeah, I don't think he was ready this year anyway.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 yeah, I don't think he was ready this year anyway.

Looked that way to start the year. I think he would have been a guy that would have come on in Jan/February when things slowed down. Sucks he loses the year but he may have sat and been discouraged as well so it could be a blessing

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KUbball freshman Jalen Wilson is on the court but going at what KU coach Bill Self described as "a snail's pace" Still a couple of weeks away from being cleared fully. Self said no decision has been made about red-shirting him. All depends on health & how he fits in when back...

BShark said:

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KUbball freshman Jalen Wilson is on the court but going at what KU coach Bill Self described as "a snail's pace" Still a couple of weeks away from being cleared fully. Self said no decision has been made about red-shirting him. All depends on health & how he fits in when back...

hmmm well that's interesting. - -Hell I thought that had already made that decision about him red-shirting.

So the question becomes - -do we want him to come back for the remainder of this season? - - OR just redshirt him and know for sure 100 % healed - might help us yet this year - - BUT I just dunno. - -What we think ? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think we need shooting badly and he might actually fit at the 4. I felt like Wilson possibly returning was less important when it looked like Enaruna might develop into a nice piece this year. However Braun is coming along rather nicely. I trust Bill to make a good decision on it either way.

Self said he would be able to go full in two weeks, and then lets say 2 weeks of practice after that he could be ready to go Feb 1. Will be very interesting to see what he does. Obviously a lot will depend on what Braun and Tristan do the next 3-4 weeks.

@jayballer73 My opinion is that he should redshirt.....unless someone someone gets injured..then we might need him if available.

Woodrow said:

Self said he would be able to go full in two weeks, and then lets say 2 weeks of practice after that he could be ready to go Feb 1. Will be very interesting to see what he does. Obviously a lot will depend on what Braun and Tristan do the next 3-4 weeks.

Braun has been what I would call solid for the last three games. Though honestly UMKC hardly counts.

WVU is always a toughness test.

Hawk8086 said:

@jayballer73 My opinion is that he should redshirt.....unless someone someone gets injured..then we might need him if available.

just don't know. - -I mean I agree with you , think by the time he is fully recovered someone mentioned by Feb 1 - - -makes it pretty late by the time you work him back in get some PT - just not sure how much he could fully help us at the point in the year.

Like you say seems almost like a wasted year for him - - unless Tristian or Braun one or the other get hurt - I truly just don't know

In a perfect world he redshirts and plays 4 full years for Kansas. I just hope he does whatever gives him/the team the best outcome. (i.e. if he’s leaving early he just as well play)

Unless he just comes back naturally ready to contribute why waste the yr?

He’s so far behind, can’t imagine him contributing, especially on D

We’ll see how he and the team are playing a month from now, but I don’t see the fit. I think Enaruna and Braun would be ahead of him, so that makes him the 10th man. Get him healthy and ready to compete next year. Going to need him.

I can see the fit if he's knocking down 3's.

@FarmerJayhawk bet

@BShark Seriously. Who can't see a spot for a guy who can play a stretch 4 and shoot 3's on this team? That's some lack of vision.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@BShark Seriously. Who can't see a spot for a guy who can play a stretch 4 and shoot 3's on this team? That's some lack of vision.

Yep I’m sure a guy who’s played 2 minutes all season and hasn’t practiced in months will come in, play 15-20 minutes per night and shoot a better % from 3 than he’s ever shot in his entire life. But seriously, who’s he passing to get into the rotation when he wasn’t in the rotation to start the year?

@FarmerJayhawk Braun. Enaruna. Moss. Any KU guard who is struggling. People are high on Braun right now and low on Enaruna. A while ago people were high on Enaruna and low on Braun. A guy like Jalen Wilson who can play at the 4 and knock down 3's is going to find minutes on a team where freshman struggle or heaven forbid players get injured. I never said it would be 15-20 minutes per game.

What are you going to say when it happens?

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@FarmerJayhawk Braun. Enaruna. Moss. Any KU guard who is struggling. People are high on Braun right now and low on Enaruna. A while ago people were high on Enaruna and low on Braun. A guy like Jalen Wilson who can play at the 4 and knock down 3's is going to find minutes on a team where freshman struggle or heaven forbid players get injured. I never said it would be 15-20 minutes per game.

What are you going to say when it happens?

If it happens, Bill Self will once again prove he’s better at coaching basketball than me. If someone gets hurt that’s an entirely different question.

And to reiterate my point. Not saying Wilson can’t play or be a contributor. I’m just skeptical of him coming in after a pretty nasty injury and being a significant piece of the puzzle and if it were me I’d redshirt him.

@FarmerJayhawk And by the way I said people who can't see Jalen fitting with this team lack vision. Somehow that became Jalen would play 15-20 minutes per game and shoot a better % from 3 than he ever has.

And he doesn't need to pass anyone in the rotation to get minutes. Braun and Enaruna are behind Dotson, Garrett, Ochai, and probably Moss in the rotation and they still get minutes.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@FarmerJayhawk And by the way I said people who can't see Jalen fitting with this team lack vision. Somehow that became Jalen would play 15-20 minutes per game and shoot a better % from 3 than he ever has.

And he doesn't need to pass anyone in the rotation to get minutes. Braun and Enaruna are behind Dotson, Garrett, Ochai, and probably Moss in the rotation and they still get minutes.

I can read. You said if he’s knocking down 3’s. Well here’s the deal: he’s not a great 3 point shooter, low-mid 30’s at best behind the college line and is coming off a severe leg injury. Not ideal for shooting.

By definition for Wilson to get minutes he has to take them from someone. How many minutes has Self played the 10th man historically? Like 3?

@FarmerJayhawk Even small puzzle pieces can fit with the team. I think there's a role for Jalen to play on this year's KU team and I think we have a good shot at making a deep run in the tournament. If there's one game in March where Jalen's shooting is the difference between winning and losing then I want him to play this season.

@FarmerJayhawk You aren't the coach. You don't decide whether or not Jalen is the 10th man. You don't decide how many minutes he does play if he is the 10th man.

Dotson, Marcus, Ochai, Doke are getting minutes. After that? If anyone else isn't having a great game I could easily see Jalen taking that player's minutes for that particular game.

We'll see. I don't think Self has a definite rotation beyond maybe 4 or 5 players at this point.

There's more than shooting w/coach. I saw a lil of jalen and he didn't look good at all on D. Lost his man, came right out. I think we'd all be fine if he's the player u think!

@Crimsonorblue22 Did he? We should probably never play him then. Freshman rarely improve.

@KirkIsMyHinrich oh smart guy.

@KirkIsMyHinrich not like he has time to really work on improving, I did just say I hope he works out like u want. Jeez

I think there's a role for him on this year's team if he plays. That's it.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@FarmerJayhawk You aren't the coach. You don't decide whether or not Jalen is the 10th man. You don't decide how many minutes he does play if he is the 10th man.

Dotson, Marcus, Ochai, Doke are getting minutes. After that? If anyone else isn't having a great game I could easily see Jalen taking that player's minutes for that particular game.

We'll see. I don't think Self has a definite rotation beyond maybe 4 or 5 players at this point.

Ummm... no s#!+ I’m not the coach. Not sure where you were going with that. I just asked how many minutes Self (who is the coach) has played the 10th guy historically.

Well, Wilson could improve but it’ll be hard to come back and meet Self’s standards on defense when A) he’s never been a particularly good defender and B ) he wouldn’t have played real minutes in 3+ months by the time he’s back.

@FarmerJayhawk Were you actually looking for an answer to that question? I think you already know. Your post implied that he would be the 10th man in the rotation if he played. I'm saying that Self probably isn't even sure who the 6th man in his rotation is yet, and that minutes for rotation players 6-10 are still up in the air.

Yes, he will have to get better defensively and improve in other areas as well. Will he? I don't know. He's a freshman. I certainly think he deserves the opportunity to try this season if he wants to.

At this point Silvio is the last guy on the roster. Never would have guessed that going into the season.

Wilson isn't ready to contribute. You can dream, but him playing less than 5 minutes per game isn't worth burning his redshirt. He isn't a knockdown shooter. He is a cinderblock feet defender. He's a below the rim player. I thought he was a project when he signed. Honestly, I pegged him as a transfer candidate because I thought he'd see no minutes come conference play, get pissed, and leave.

At this point, you might as well play 4 guards instead of Wilson because they'll be better defensively and, in my opinion, better offensively. Wilson has a long ways to go before he should ever see the floor. He will have to develop a finesse game on offense and I'm not sure he'll ever develop enough defensively that we won't get frustrated by him.

The gain to playing him and burning his redshirt is minimal. Keeping him here 4 full years and him walking out with a Master's Degree is the smart move. And I think Jalen and Self will come to that conclusion.

BShark said:

At this point Silvio is the last guy on the roster. Never would have guessed that going into the season.

Unbelievable. Expected him to come in and be a monster. All mental. It's like the game never slowed down for him.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@FarmerJayhawk Were you actually looking for an answer to that question? I think you already know. Your post implied that he would be the 10th man in the rotation if he played. I'm saying that Self probably isn't even sure who the 6th man in his rotation is yet, and that minutes for rotation players 6-10 are still up in the air.

Yes, he will have to get better defensively and improve in other areas as well. Will he? I don't know. He's a freshman. I certainly think he deserves the opportunity to try this season if he wants to.

It was rhetorical. How has he earned an opportunity? If he comes in and lights it up in practice then I’d agree but barring that he hasn’t earned anything but a spot next to Mitch

@KirkIsMyHinrich

We have seen zilch of Wilson's ability to defend, especially the 4.

I get your point about having another shooter available. Not sure it outweighs everything else

I'm puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he'll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.

But heading into the season I think most everyone thought he was more game ready than Enaruna, with Enaruna having more upside.

I understood that Wilson has decent three point shooting ability. To me, that's 33-35%. Wiggins was in that range as I recall. But that doesn't make the big impact it would take to shoot Wilson up the PT pecking order. 40% would. Don't know about that from any freshman.

If he comes back say Feb. 1., we have a very busy February and early March of games. This could have him in decent position to help come tourney time. It is reasonable to the think that he could surpass Enaruna, but I don't think anyone will expect that. I'd expect Enaruna to make the leap before I'd expect Wilson to. But Enaruna's shooting was always considered an issue (switching dominant shooting hands, etc.)

There's no answer here. But to foreclose it as a reasonable possibility doesn't make much sense. Wilson has a lot to overcome -- freshman, no real PT, guys that have that experience now, coming off a big injury, etc. It's an uphill battle to be sure.

On redshirting (a practical consideration) the only way you redshirt a kid is IF he is a four year player. Here, he could play this season and still have three left. Odds are he'll be gone then anyway to the pros. But if the pow-wow between player and coach says that he will like be a full term guy, then I guess we should redshirt. Another reason NOT to redshirt (from the KU perspective) is that he could graduate and leave the program when he reaches year five. So we'd only get him three full seasons anyway.

Personally, I would play him every minute Self thinks he deserves. All we lose is a possible 4th year. And in four years, heck, we might be bowing to an Ayatollah. Or CBB might have free agency. Play him what Self thinks is deserving.

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Recruiting-Former-Michigan-Jalen-Wilson-KU-basketball-scouting-report-132155545/ ↗

HighEliteMajor said:

I'm puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he'll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.

When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn't played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn't red shirt he is completely wasting a year.

Here's my take: He doesn't redshirt because--like most top 50 ranked freshmen basketball players--he's not planning to be here for 4 years anyway.

Personally, I hope he does not redshirt. He'll be better next year if he sees the floor just a little bit this year even if he doesn't contribute meaningful minutes.

I hate seeing guys sit out at all. Silvio's involuntary year didn't seem to do him any good. I'm worried Mitch will regress with an off year.

Who would be the best redshirt success story at KU? Travis Releford? (second year redshirt)

DanR said:

I hate seeing guys sit out at all. Silvio's involuntary year didn't seem to do him any good. I'm worried Mitch will regress with an off year.

Who would be the best redshirt success story at KU? Travis Releford? (second year redshirt)

Morningstar redshirted the title year and was a major factor for the next 3 years primarily as a starter.

My question on Wilson is he even eligible for a traditional redshirt this season or would KU have to apply for a medical redshirt for this season down the line since Wilson played 2 minutes against Duke?

If he's eligibile for a traditional redshirt, I would be in favor of that because there's very little about Wilson's game that makes me think he won't be a 4 year player.

If Wilson isn't eligible for a traditional redshirt and would have to go the medical route, I would hold him out until he would still be eligible to obtain a medical redshirt then stash him on the bench as depth.

Of the 3 freshmen this season, Enaruna is still the one I'm highest on long term because of his size, skill, and athleticism and the one with the best chance to leave early.

Braun is playing better than Enaruna at the moment, but he's also already closer to what his ceiling is so I don't see him developing significantly more going forward and will be a fan favorite because of his effort. He's going to replace Garrett as the glue guy that does a lot of little things to make his team better.

Wilson looks like someone who will be in college until he exhausts his eligibility whether that's after 2022-23 or 2023-24. His game reminds me a lot of Perry Ellis with a little bit of Svi mixed in. Like Ellis, Wilson is primarily a below the rim player who prefers playing face up and doesn't have much, if any back to the basket game. He was a good shooter in high school so I think he could develop into a Svi like shooter by the end of his career. I also don't see him ever developing into a good defender. His footwork is just too slow to guard wings on the perimeter and he's too much of a finesse guy to deal with physical post players that he'll have to deal with at times.

Jalen Wilson is a good complimentary piece to have, but if he's the focal point of the offense like Ellis was his senior season, it'll be the same result at the end of the year.

I'm not sure it's a benefit, it just doesn't waste a year. If coach is sure he's going pro before 4 yrs? Silvios was a waste for him, was almost for 2. He only has 1 yr left to play. Pretty sure jalen doesn't think he'll be here 4 yrs. 🤔

@DanR Travis

Texas Hawk 10 said:

My question on Wilson is he even eligible for a traditional redshirt this season or would KU have to apply for a medical redshirt for this season down the line since Wilson played 2 minutes against Duke?

If he's eligibile for a traditional redshirt, I would be in favor of that because there's very little about Wilson's game that makes me think he won't be a 4 year player.

If Wilson isn't eligible for a traditional redshirt and would have to go the medical route, I would hold him out until he would still be eligible to obtain a medical redshirt then stash him on the bench as depth.

Of the 3 freshmen this season, Enaruna is still the one I'm highest on long term because of his size, skill, and athleticism and the one with the best chance to leave early.

Braun is playing better than Enaruna at the moment, but he's also already closer to what his ceiling is so I don't see him developing significantly more going forward and will be a fan favorite because of his effort. He's going to replace Garrett as the glue guy that does a lot of little things to make his team better.

Wilson looks like someone who will be in college until he exhausts his eligibility whether that's after 2022-23 or 2023-24. His game reminds me a lot of Perry Ellis with a little bit of Svi mixed in. Like Ellis, Wilson is primarily a below the rim player who prefers playing face up and doesn't have much, if any back to the basket game. He was a good shooter in high school so I think he could develop into a Svi like shooter by the end of his career. I also don't see him ever developing into a good defender. His footwork is just too slow to guard wings on the perimeter and he's too much of a finesse guy to deal with physical post players that he'll have to deal with at times.

Jalen Wilson is a good complimentary piece to have, but if he's the focal point of the offense like Ellis was his senior season, it'll be the same result at the end of the year.

I believe eligibility for a medical is if he played in less than 1/3 of games due to injury.

Gosh.... receiving a RS should feel like a blessing for all players except the obvious OADs. It's an opportunity to be in a system for an extra year, just minus game time. Perfect opportunity to level out your school work and then hammer down on your personal development. I'm always amazed to see players who get that year and only show marginal improvements. At KU, every scholarship player has the desire to make a living at basketball one day. You don't get this time back later. No redo. And though the college experience is a very special time for youth it is something that must largely be sacrificed by those who really want to maximize their career after KU.

I'm still in a bit of shock on Silvio. He almost seems to have gone backwards. I know the pace of our game has picked up and he hasn't made the adjustment.... but a guy like that... with a body and strength like that... Was he just left on his own for a year? Man.... if that was me I would have been in dance lessons, developing my footwork and I'd have walked out this past November and performed the most polished spin moves ever to show in AFH. Am I missing something here? Do these kids realize the opportunity in front of them? Not only NBA. Heck... play in Israel for 3 million a year....

DanR said:

I hate seeing guys sit out at all. Silvio's involuntary year didn't seem to do him any good. I'm worried Mitch will regress with an off year.

Who would be the best redshirt success story at KU? Travis Releford? (second year redshirt)

Ben McLemore

Arguably Landen Lucas. Just because of how much he developed from Year 1 to Year 5.

BigBad said:

HighEliteMajor said:

I'm puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he'll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.

When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn't played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn't red shirt he is completely wasting a year.

Hmmm. Quite a few times. Agbaji, Grimes, Garrett, Selden, Oubre, Graham, Mason, Wiggins -- but you know, kind of a few. It's happened "EVER." Agbaji stepped on the court, low ranked freshman, no PT at all, and average over 20 minutes per game last January. Just a recent history lesson.

No one has said that Self will trust him early in conference play. The guy isn't ready physcially now -- which is "early" in conference play.

No one has said to throw him in at 15 min per game. Straw man argument. The idea, I think, would be to let him get his feet wet and ramp up if he deserves the ramp up OR of if we need it.

And you realize that redshirting him is also likely a waste? All it saves us his is his 5th year. If we get his 5th year, there is high risk that he either turns pro before then OR he leaves as a grad transfer.

@HighEliteMajor well stated and pretty much where I am at with it.

HighEliteMajor said:

BigBad said:

HighEliteMajor said:

I'm puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he'll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.

When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn't played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn't red shirt he is completely wasting a year.

Hmmm. Quite a few times. Agbaji, Grimes, Garrett, Selden, Oubre, Graham, Mason, Wiggins -- but you know, kind of a few. It's happened "EVER." Agbaji stepped on the court, low ranked freshman, no PT at all, and average over 20 minutes per game last January. Just a recent history lesson.

No one has said that Self will trust him early in conference play. The guy isn't ready physcially now -- which is "early" in conference play.

No one has said to throw him in at 15 min per game. Straw man argument. The idea, I think, would be to let him get his feet wet and ramp up if he deserves the ramp up OR of if we need it.

And you realize that redshirting him is also likely a waste? All it saves us his is his 5th year. If we get his 5th year, there is high risk that he either turns pro before then OR he leaves as a grad transfer.

Jalen would be a medical redshirt so it's a bridge to cross if the situation arises. If Wilson is still playing college basketball in 2023-24 (what would be that 5th year) and is a grad transfer, that would mean that he's majorly underachieved at KU and wouldn't be looking at many minutes that season anyway at KU and therefore not a big loss to the success of that team.

If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn't need to apply for the medical redshirt so it'd be a moot point.

@Texas-Hawk-10 It's not a "moot point." The issue is whether we play him this season. So, if we play him this season, he loses the chance to redshirt. If we don't play him, we lose potential help. So if he turns pro early (the item you suggested created the mootness), we lose his potential contribution this season if we choose to redshirt him, in that eventuality.

You make the assumption that grad transfer is not productive. That's many times not the case. Moss? Tarik Black? Many times it's just change of scenery, coach issues, could be PT -- say if we brought in a presumed OAD. But at KU, I agree, that the grad transfer thing is less of a risk and would likely indicate other issues that might make us less harmed by the loss.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 It's not a "moot point." The issue is whether we play him this season. So, if we play him this season, he loses the chance to redshirt. If we don't play him, we lose potential help. So if he turns pro early (the item you suggested created the mootness), we lose his potential contribution this season if we choose to redshirt him, in that eventuality.

You make the assumption that grad transfer is not productive. That's many times not the case. Moss? Tarik Black? Many times it's just change of scenery, coach issues, could be PT -- say if we brought in a presumed OAD. But at KU, I agree, that the grad transfer thing is less of a risk and would likely indicate other issues that might make us less harmed by the loss.

Jalen Wilson played 2 minutes in the Duke game before his injury meaning he's not eligible for a traditional redshirt this season since he appeared in a regular season game. The only way Wilson gets this season of eligibility back is through a medical redshirt which he wouldn't apply for until the spring/summer of 2023 if he's still playing college basketball at that time.

My understanding of how the medical hardship waiver works is that if Wilson comes back and plays at any point this season, he would no longer be eligible for a medical redshirt for this season.

Since his injury happened prior to the midway point of the season and Wilson played fewer than 30% of KU's games, he'd currently be eligible for a medical redshirt if the situation arises.

So the question for Self is does he think that Jalen Wilson will be around in 2023-24 (I would strongly lean towards yes on that one) and does Self believe Wilson can help KU more in 2023-24 than in 2019-20. If the answer is yes, then the logical choice is to sit Wilson the rest of this season to preserve that year of eligibility.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Right, completely agree. You just agreed with my post. You said it was "moot" in your previous post. In this last post you said there were choices -- see your last paragraph.

It is my understand that he can't wait until future years to apply for the medical redshirt for this past season. He would need to do it now (or within a certain time period after the season).

I could be wrong on the rules of medical red shirt, but what I found:

1. The injury must be season-ending.
2. The injury must occur before the second half of the season.
3. The athlete cannot have competed in more than 30% of the season, or 3 competitions, before an injury.

Jalen qualifies for a MRS. If he comes back and enters a game, he loses this option. There may even be exceptions possible by filing a challenge with the NCAA.

Unless we lose several other players, I don't see a scenario where Jalen comes back this season. Even if he was up to full speed (he won't) he will have not be up to speed with the team.

I think it is important for him to keep this year of eligibility moving forward. I know I really appreciate 5th year seniors. Regardless of how many minutes they actually play, they provide needed leadership to young players, too. And almost regardless of their individual talent level, they are typically needed on the court at times because they know what to do, they know what Self wants.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Right, completely agree. You just agreed with my post. You said it was "moot" in your previous post. In this last post you said there were choices -- see your last paragraph.

It is my understand that he can't wait until future years to apply for the medical redshirt for this past season. He would need to do it now (or within a certain time period after the season).

You really didn't read that entire post then. I said the redshirt issue is a moot point if Jalen left KU early, but that doesn't fit the narrative you're trying to create, but what else is new with you changing the parameters of a discussion to fit whatever narrative you're trying to create on a given day.

I've also seen nothing that indicates a specific time frame for applying for a medical redshirt in the NCAA by-laws that I've seen on the matter. If you're aware of that rule, feel free to share where in the NCAA by-laws it is.

Honestly I think the risk of Wilson going pro early is overblown. Check out guys ranked 40-55 in the 247 composite from 15-17. Most are still in school, and many of those that did declare had extenuating circumstances.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Honestly I think the risk of Wilson going pro early is overblown. Check out guys ranked 40-55 in the 247 composite from 15-17. Most are still in school, and many of those that did declare had extenuating circumstances.

Pretty much my belief. A 50ish ranked recruit in a very weak recruiting class that would be in the 60-75 range in normal years isn't very likely to leave early for professional basketball. Wilson also doesn't have an NBA skill set even if he reached his ceiling at KU. He's about 80% Perry Ellis and 20% Svi mixture. Wilson is a better shooter than Ellis was, but he's a poor rebounder for his size, isn't very athletic, and plays below the rim.

There's very little about Jalen Wilson's game and skill set that says he'll be an NBA player at any point in his career.

dylans said:

Ben McLemore

I thought he had to sit out for academic reasons. But he was pretty dang good after that year off, regardless.

@DanR correct. He would have played right away if he was eligible.

Same deal with Jamari. I don't know if he got any better with the off year, but he was about as raw as possible to start with.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

Morningstar redshirted the title year and was a major factor for the next 3 years primarily as a starter.

How could I forget about Brady!

Mario Little sat out a year also after his JuCo stint.

All right, I'm starting to get on board with the redshirt for Jalen if it's possible.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Try tracking here. You claim the redshirt decision is moot if he leaves early. It's not.

The medical redshirt decision DOES matter IF he turns pro before his eligibility expires. Why? Because if we chooses the redshirt, then he won't get to play this season and loses his PT this season (and we lose his services for that time). That is lost playing time that he/we can't recoup when he leaves early. It's not moot at all if he ends up leaving early. Where it is moot is if we get the redshirt AND he stays for his entire eligibility. Taht way we get the full amount of his services and he gets a full amount of college PT (four seasons of PT).

But, you know, just creating a narrative.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Try tracking here. You claim the redshirt decision is moot if he leaves early. It's not.

The medical redshirt decision DOES matter IF he turns pro before his eligibility expires. Why? Because if we chooses the redshirt, then he won't get to play this season and loses his PT this season (and we lose his services for that time). That is lost playing time that he/we can't recoup when he leaves early. It's not moot at all if he ends up leaving early. Where it is moot is if we get the redshirt AND he stays for his entire eligibility. Taht way we get the full amount of his services and he gets a full amount of college PT (four seasons of PT).

But, you know, just creating a narrative.

You try tracking. There is no official deadline to apply for a medical redshirt until 2023 for Wilson because that's when it become necessary. If he plays this year and left early, the redshirt decision doesn't matter. If Jalen sits this year and eventually leaves early, the redshirt decision doesn't matter. That's why it's a moot point if Jalen leaves early.

BShark said:

@DanR correct. He would have played right away if he was eligible.

A technicality, but I do think it was a redshirt year.

@Kcmatt7 Landen Lucas may have had a bigger impact due to 4 years played, but I think some may argue that impact was akin to being championship blocked.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

HighEliteMajor said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Try tracking here. You claim the redshirt decision is moot if he leaves early. It's not.

The medical redshirt decision DOES matter IF he turns pro before his eligibility expires. Why? Because if we chooses the redshirt, then he won't get to play this season and loses his PT this season (and we lose his services for that time). That is lost playing time that he/we can't recoup when he leaves early. It's not moot at all if he ends up leaving early. Where it is moot is if we get the redshirt AND he stays for his entire eligibility. Taht way we get the full amount of his services and he gets a full amount of college PT (four seasons of PT).

But, you know, just creating a narrative.

You try tracking. There is no official deadline to apply for a medical redshirt until 2023 for Wilson because that's when it become necessary. If he plays this year and left early, the redshirt decision doesn't matter. If Jalen sits this year and eventually leaves early, the redshirt decision doesn't matter. That's why it's a moot point if Jalen leaves early.

Now you look like a fool. If he does not play this season, taking the redshirt, AND he ends up leaving early, he lost the playing time for THIS season. And we lost his services for THIS season. We can’t get that back. He can’t get that back. His games played are lower.That makes the decision clearly NOT moot and the decision DOES matter.

Example 1 - He comes back Feb 1 and Self plays him in 13 more games this season. Next season he plays 38 games. The following season he plays 36 games. Turns pro. Total games 87 games played .

Example 2 - He does not play anymore this season (redshirt). Next season he plays 38 games. The following season he plays 36 games. Turns pro. Total games 74 games played.

Not moot. The decision DOES matter even if he turns pro early. He/we lose games. Comprehend?

How hard is this?

Always fun to see people arguing with each other over conjecture.

HEM, you misunderstood his initial use of "moot". TexHawk used the term in discussing how Wilson's potential 5th year impact at KU would change for the team if he left early due to going pro or by transferring out. He suggested if Wilson transferred out then he was likely not going to have a big role on the team that year anyway. Thus, "moot" was limited to the context of whether KU would benefit from Wilson's 5th year.

Your points are well-taken about all the other possible ways both KU and Wilson could benefit starting this year by not redshirting. But whether he benefits KU 4 years from now would indeed AT THAT POINT be moot if he leaves after 3 no matter the cause.

As always, trying to find understanding rather than leaping to snippiness and name-calling might help.

@mayjay Thank you for your ability to comprehend my initial post.

@HighEliteMajor if Jalen Wilson never plays year 5 whether at KU or elsewhere because he developed enough to turn pro before then, the redshirt issue is moot because it wouldn't be necessary regardless of whether he played at any point this season or not. But again, thank you for creating a narrative that wasn't there by changing the context of a post. Have a nice day.

@mayjay - Nope, sorry. He said, “If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn’t need to apply for the medical redshirt so it’d be a moot point.”

My example holds. It’s not moot because if he leaves early then a if he sits out this season he loses games. You’re not following and you make the same mistake he did. You ignore the fact that Wilson loses games of the decision is made to sit him out this season (which is the redshirt decision). If we play him he can’t redshirt.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t change the context of your post.

Tell me, then, if the decision is made to sit him now and not play him (thus the redshirt approach), how is it moot if he loses those games he could have played this season?

The decision has to be made now. Because if you don’t sit him now, you can’t have a redshirt. See .. it’s not moot then or now.

@HighEliteMajor

!Sisyphus-quote.jpg ↗

Not worth it. Ain't no Sisyphus here.

HighEliteMajor said:

@mayjay - Nope, sorry. He said, “If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn’t need to apply for the medical redshirt so it’d be a moot point.”

My example holds. It’s not moot because if he leaves early then a if he sits out this season he loses games. You’re not following and you make the same mistake he did. You ignore the fact that Wilson loses games of the decision is made to sit him out this season (which is the redshirt decision). If we play him he can’t redshirt.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t change the context of your post.

Tell me, then, if the decision is made to sit him now and not play him (thus the redshirt approach), how is it moot if he loses those games he could have played this season?

The decision has to be made now. Because if you don’t sit him now, you can’t have a redshirt. See .. it’s not moot then or now.

Thanks for proving my point that you take people's comments out of context to create your own narrative. My narrative this entire time has been that if Jalen Wilson left KU early to turn pro, it doesn't matter if he played this year or not because the redshirt issue would never come up for debate. There would be no "what if's" about Jalen in 2023-24 because he would already be gone from KU.

If Jalen plays this year and gets to 2023-24, there will always be "what if's" about sitting Jalen this year.

Been my point the entire time, but keep claiming I'm making some other point when my statements have been the same this entire debate.

The decision has to be made NOW, not later. By holding him out. That decision costs games. That is the decision. Regardless of when the technical redshirt is granted.

If he leaves early, the decision to redshirt ... by not playing him .. is not moot.

Good thing it’s jalens w/his parents and coach’s decision. I’m sure the dr/trainer is helpful too

One thing I might say , I'm not so sure Jalen will be leaving early. Might very well be that 4 year player. Something that will have to play it'self out I know - -I'm just not really that sure , think he gonna have to have some really good yrs ahead. - -So that's yet to be determined

I think this whole debate is moo. It’s like a cows opinion. It doesn’t matter.

Glad we solved that!

benshawks08 said:

I think this whole debate is moo. It’s like a cows opinion. It doesn’t matter.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

jayballer73 said:

benshawks08 said:

I think this whole debate is moo. It’s like a cows opinion. It doesn’t matter.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Oink

@benshawks08
I have no beef with that. You are right--this is a bunch of bull, udder nonsense in fact. Can you steer us somewhere better? Just steak out a position and let us know.

Sorry for milking this so much. I herd that people hate puns but I won't be cowed.

@Crimsonorblue22 just take it by the horns

Just one big cow pattie!

@Crimsonorblue22 Hay--how ya doin'? Getting far afield, aren't we?

@Crimsonorblue22 You can run but not hide!

@mayjay time to pen this up and hit the hay!

@Crimsonorblue22
Hope nobody pulls a calf before it’s over!

@FarmerJayhawk ewww me either, seen it before, close enough.

You guys are milking this for all its worth. :red_heart:

Well, I guess I throw out too much bull-sh**. I seem to have butchered this one. No one was amoosed. My apologies. Time to hide for a while.

The only reason for Wilson to redshirt would be if he is still not ready to go come mid-February. If able to go I think that he will contribute in a variety of ways, like at the 4 rebounding the ball and getting put backs, even stepping out for the occasional three. If able to play coach will play him.

FarmerJayhawk said:

@Crimsonorblue22
Hope nobody pulls a calf before it’s over!

Well I didn’t pull one, but I did have to warm a calf up on my floorboard this week. Little dude got to cruise the country side for 5 hours before finally coming g back to life. (Pretty neat when they live). No pun here sorry.

@dylans You and Billy Crystal! Congrats! Did you name him Norman?

@mayjay lol I named him after his momma - 417. !60000201-199A-4713-8D80-FFA6BF9B633E.jpeg ↗

@dylans Much more satisfying than trying to educate K State farmers, I would guess!

@mayjay lol smarter subjects.

Gotta stay busy in the winter, I’d hate to have some time off.

@dylans ahhhh! Maybe @HighEliteMajor could hide out there around your place? No inner city violence there either. He could pull some calves and milk some cows. Etc, farm chores.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

He wanted to go! At least we are not this bad! I'm not, well maybe w/my dog?🥴

Self reports Wilson doing more but not a full practice participant.

They expect to make a decision within 2 weeks on his season.

Jalen says he wants to play if healthy, family supportive.

It would have been interesting to see where he might be in his development without the injury.

Can he help this team at this point? I'm struggling to see where both from a chemistry and performance standpoint. We'll have to see where they go with this one..

Jalen makes a nice quick-twitch cut and run to catch a pass in this video. Coach puts some zip on the ball, too!

Nice to see the team having some fun. Hopefully it will bring out some of that 'personality' Coach feels is lacking a bit on the court.

https://www.facebook.com/KansasBasketball/videos/785298881969182/ ↗

BeddieKU23 said:

It would have been interesting to see where he might be in his development without the injury.

Can he help this team at this point? I'm struggling to see where both from a chemistry and performance standpoint. We'll have to see where they go with this one..

Well Enaruna has become unplayable for Bill and while Jalen didn't look the best early if he is going to be played at the 4, guarding a wing or even a post player and can help space the floor that is at least intriguing.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

It would have been interesting to see where he might be in his development without the injury.

Can he help this team at this point? I'm struggling to see where both from a chemistry and performance standpoint. We'll have to see where they go with this one..

Well Enaruna has become unplayable for Bill and while Jalen didn't look the best early if he is going to be played at the 4, guarding a wing or even a post player and can help space the floor that is at least intriguing.

It sounds good, I really wish he was the type of talent you just rush in to try and see what he has but I dont think that's the case with how Self runs his offense and his expectations on defense. I have always been extremely high on Wilson and I dont want to see him transfer away at any cost. If he could really add some meaningful minutes to perimeter scoring while also defending at a level like Moss I'm all for it.

Lace your chucks young man. Your up

BeddieKU23 said:

Lace your chucks young man. Your up

is he physically ready ?

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Lace your chucks young man. Your up

is he physically ready ?

Nope but this changes everything now. KU may have 7 eligible players for the foreseeable future. There's an opportunity if he can get healthy.

Some talking about Marcus and suspension . What did I miss , did he throw a punch? - I've heard some say he was pushing BUT just trying to separate people. - -Anyone? what did anyone else see with Marcus.

Actually after watching other angles it actually looks like the juco point guard for K-State , is actually the guy that throws the 1st punch. - As far as Silvio several saying they think his days at KU are over. Some saying they would be surprised if he was on the KU roster at the end of the day.

The big thing here is even with what Bill thinks, this is now over his head. - Like has been stated this has now become an administration decision. - The AD decision - - the Conference decision , I think Long trying to save face for KU - -hell Chancellor may be involved saying face for KU. - This is where Silvio being told to pack it up comes into effect. - We got enough issues going on with the NCAA at this point , thinking maybe we don't need any extra fire. - nothing will surprise me at this point.

@jayballer73

Marcus was in the corner doing something to I believe James Love. Dave was also in that corner. It wasn't all on the up and up. If I was reviewing tape, I think it would be debatable on him getting a 1 game suspension.

BeddieKU23 said:

@jayballer73

Marcus was in the corner doing something to I believe James Love. Dave was also in that corner. It wasn't all on the up and up. If I was reviewing tape, I think it would be debatable on him getting a 1 game suspension.

that's just lovely. it was just a really ugly situation

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

@jayballer73

Marcus was in the corner doing something to I believe James Love. Dave was also in that corner. It wasn't all on the up and up. If I was reviewing tape, I think it would be debatable on him getting a 1 game suspension.

that's just lovely. it was just a really ugly situation

If you focus on Marcus he definitely wasn't innocent.

Simultaneously Dave comes in and makes it worse. One view looked like he threw a punch.

Ochai straight up pushed James Love and launched him, Marcus & Dave followed him after with Silvio.

Dave & Silvio were out of control that much is known

I will be shocked if Marcus is suspended but I've been shocked before. Maybe Ochai and Marcus get a single game. I'm finding it hard to be outraged over this though. Yes it was a big pile of stupid but just suspend guys (on both teams) and move on.

@BShark

Just saw another replay focusing on the Marcus/Dave in the corner and it doesn't appear Marcus did anything. At the end he starts boxing out

I was looking and looking could very well just missing it. I just don't see Marcus doing anything either, but could be wrong for sure.

I’ve watched a bunch of different angles and you can’t see the punch Garrett threw in any of them. But he definitely did, down against the wall in the scrum.

BShark said:

I will be shocked if Marcus is suspended but I've been shocked before. Maybe Ochai and Marcus get a single game. I'm finding it hard to be outraged over this though. Yes it was a big pile of stupid but just suspend guys (on both teams) and move on.

Not outraged? I guess this is all within the realm of reasonableness.

If Marcus were to be suspended then there is going to be a hell of a lot of suspensions. He didn't do anything. At the very end he shoved #34 but it was a get the F out of my face shove and not violent at all.

There are way too many hot takes firing out about this.

Bruce looked like he was drugged in post game!

@HighEliteMajor Again with extremes. There are many levels of reaction between "that is reasonable" and "I am outraged!"

Being upset without being mad is one possibility. I am upset, but not so much it ruins my day. I save outrage for things that are far more threatening to life, limb, loved ones, and safety.

@Woodrow Marcus was blocking guys off the bench player on the floor. Love then slithered off. IMO, the main instigator.

mayjay said:

@HighEliteMajor Again with extremes. There are many levels of reaction between "that is reasonable" and "I am outraged!"

Being upset without being mad is one possibility. I am upset, but not so much it ruins my day. I save outrage for things that are far more threatening to life, limb, loved ones, and safety.

Something like this. I'm disappointed but at the end of the day no one was hurt and punishments will be meted out. Silvio deserves a long one for his part in it. I'd say at least 5 games.

BShark said:

I will be shocked if Marcus is suspended but I've been shocked before. Maybe Ochai and Marcus get a single game. I'm finding it hard to be outraged over this though. Yes it was a big pile of stupid but just suspend guys (on both teams) and move on.

I’m kinda the same on this. I’m surprised this stuff doesn’t happen more often. The kids screwed up, that’s what kids do, that’s what adults do. Not justifying it at all, they need to pay the price. But it’s much more of a story if we talk about how ridiculous it is. But I don’t think it’s that ridiculous. Putting myself in these kids’ shoes, I can’t sit here and say I would’ve done anything differently. Doesn’t make it right, but it’s not ridiculous to me. Mike Tyson biting an ear or Artest going into the stands. That fits the bill for ridiculous.

@BShark I am surprised no one was hurt. Someone in a suit got tossed down like a rag doll wandering into the middle of pro wrestling practice.

If this was game two without the rematch coming, I would say go easier on the suspensions, but this was the first meeting so I would go harsher on both sides to send a message to try and deter another incident happening in Manhattan.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I have zero confidence that the second game of this series will go well. Bruce and his "we will take what they give us" on the punishment, the history of KU @ K-State, and just the overall nastiness that building seems to add to every game we play there. The boos for EVERYTHING, the F KU chants, that stupid Sandstorm song, storming the court, the chickens, this list could go on and on. Not sure the KSU fans are as bad as the Antlers but they sure have their moments. I just don't see that whole situation going well.

One of the KSU assistant nailed one of our walk ins in the back of his head with a clipboard. The whole deal was nuts. I think I have pictures of Bruce’s chin getting scuffed when he pulled a kstate player back. Looked like his chin got rug burn on his jersey/back.

Bruce said he breaks out due to stress, seriously.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

If this was game two without the rematch coming, I would say go easier on the suspensions, but this was the first meeting so I would go harsher on both sides to send a message to try and deter another incident happening in Manhattan.

I say, and I hate to, do not go light on any of them while staggering the suspensions out. This was a nationally televised game, no time to go weak on this one - especially with all of the other stuff clouding our program. Picking up a freaking chair? What a dumb ass move. Life lessons, people, and they are all fixing to receive some. This might all but seal the deal for Baylor to win the conference (hope I'm wrong), but it is what it is.

mayjay said:

@BShark I am surprised no one was hurt. Someone in a suit got tossed down like a rag doll wandering into the middle of pro wrestling practice.

that was Jeremy Case that went flying through

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Crosstown_Shootout_brawl ↗

This is the most memorable brawl in my mind. And it was way worse than ours. So I'd imagine Silvio gets like 6 games. And then anyone else might get a game or two. I couldn't imagine more.

Kcmatt7 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Crosstown_Shootout_brawl ↗

This is the most memorable brawl in my mind. And it was way worse than ours. So I'd imagine Silvio gets like 6 games. And then anyone else might get a game or two. I couldn't imagine more.

Imagine worse.

bskeet said:

Kcmatt7 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Crosstown_Shootout_brawl ↗

This is the most memorable brawl in my mind. And it was way worse than ours. So I'd imagine Silvio gets like 6 games. And then anyone else might get a game or two. I couldn't imagine more.

Imagine worse.

It sure was... The Chair picture really did him in.

12 games for DeSousa and 2 for McCormack?

Please forgive the ignorance. With everyone debating whether Wilson should take a medical redshirt or not made me wonder if Doke can take a medical redshirt for last year. He only played 9 games, and I was wondering what the cut off was for being eligible. Also, there's been discussions on whether he's even a fit in the NBA. Now if he technically can take a RS I don't at all see him doing it, I was just wondering if he's at least eligible.

Please keep rude comments to yourself if I'm just completely wrong on this. I believe that even when I disagree with people on here I do it with respect. We're all Jayhawks here.

@rockchalkwyo Why, you little...

Just kidding! I hope someone knows the answer because I have been wondering this, too.

He could but he won't.

rockchalkwyo said:

Please forgive the ignorance. With everyone debating whether Wilson should take a medical redshirt or not made me wonder if Doke can take a medical redshirt for last year. He only played 9 games, and I was wondering what the cut off was for being eligible. Also, there's been discussions on whether he's even a fit in the NBA. Now if he technically can take a RS I don't at all see him doing it, I was just wondering if he's at least eligible.

Please keep rude comments to yourself if I'm just completely wrong on this. I believe that even when I disagree with people on here I do it with respect. We're all Jayhawks here.

I believe so. I think you can apply for a medical if you play <30% of possible games and the injury ends your season. Crazy he could get a master's and still be the age of a typical senior (assuming his listed age is correct, which is debatable).

Thanks @BShark and @FarmerJayhawk

rockchalkwyo said:

Please forgive the ignorance. With everyone debating whether Wilson should take a medical redshirt or not made me wonder if Doke can take a medical redshirt for last year. He only played 9 games, and I was wondering what the cut off was for being eligible. Also, there's been discussions on whether he's even a fit in the NBA. Now if he technically can take a RS I don't at all see him doing it, I was just wondering if he's at least eligible.

Please keep rude comments to yourself if I'm just completely wrong on this. I believe that even when I disagree with people on here I do it with respect. We're all Jayhawks here.

Don't think Doke is or would be eligible for a medical redshirt my friend - I think he has already taken that.

guess I was wrong but I thought Doke had already taken his medical redshirt. - -Guess that shows how much I know

@jayballer73 @rockchalkwyo Maybe he has no interest in doing a graduate school year. He has apparently been a fine student and is set to graduate, I believe. NBA is his goal, so 5 years in college may be risking too much.

jayballer73 said:

rockchalkwyo said:

Please forgive the ignorance. With everyone debating whether Wilson should take a medical redshirt or not made me wonder if Doke can take a medical redshirt for last year. He only played 9 games, and I was wondering what the cut off was for being eligible. Also, there's been discussions on whether he's even a fit in the NBA. Now if he technically can take a RS I don't at all see him doing it, I was just wondering if he's at least eligible.

Please keep rude comments to yourself if I'm just completely wrong on this. I believe that even when I disagree with people on here I do it with respect. We're all Jayhawks here.

Don't think Doke is or would be eligible for a medical redshirt my friend - I think he has already taken that.

Doke should be eligible for a medical redshirt for his freshman or junior seasons of he chose so. He only played in 11 of KU's 36 games as a freshman and 9 of 36 games last season. I don't see it happening, but Doke should have the option should he choose to come back and further refine his game.

mayjay said:

@jayballer73 @rockchalkwyo Maybe he has no interest in doing a graduate school year. He has apparently been a fine student and is set to graduate, I believe. NBA is his goal, so 5 years in college may be risking too much.

this too , I don't think he would really want to come back for that 5th year

Texas Hawk 10 said:

jayballer73 said:

rockchalkwyo said:

Please forgive the ignorance. With everyone debating whether Wilson should take a medical redshirt or not made me wonder if Doke can take a medical redshirt for last year. He only played 9 games, and I was wondering what the cut off was for being eligible. Also, there's been discussions on whether he's even a fit in the NBA. Now if he technically can take a RS I don't at all see him doing it, I was just wondering if he's at least eligible.

Please keep rude comments to yourself if I'm just completely wrong on this. I believe that even when I disagree with people on here I do it with respect. We're all Jayhawks here.

Don't think Doke is or would be eligible for a medical redshirt my friend - I think he has already taken that.

Doke should be eligible for a medical redshirt for his freshman or junior seasons of he chose so. He only played in 11 of KU's 36 games as a freshman and 9 of 36 games last season. I don't see it happening, but Doke should have the option should he choose to come back and further refine his game.

Oh , ok thank you wasn't for sure - - wrong again , appreciate your information though. I like you don't think it will happen BUT looks like then he Could if he wanted

It won’t happen but how cool would it be if doke came back, Silvio and gethro RS and we’ll have Dave and Mitch as back up 5s. Again won’t happen but that would be sweet.

Wow a 5th yr of Doke would be rockstar level awesome. I honestly didnt even think of that since the only reason he was here 4 yrs was because of the injuries. Doke has even said it wasnt the plan. The staff has done a great job recruiting guys back so I guess it's not impossible but likely Improbable

I believe the Big 12 rule is you have to make the request by Aug 1 of the following season. See rule 6.4. I think this is it.

https://static.big12sports.com/custompages/pdfs/handbook/conferencehandbook.pdf ↗

Has anybody heard anymore on Jalen's progress ? - - I know a ways back they was talking like another couple of weeks. - something like was doing some running wasn't he? - Anybody heard any scoop ? holler. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I have not seen a update in the last couple weeks but unless he had a setback he should be a full go in practice.

I personally think he will play this year.

Woodrow said:

I have not seen a update in the last couple weeks but unless he had a setback he should be a full go in practice.

I personally think he will play this year.

I think he does especially with Silvio out. Those 9th man minutes aren't much but hes another shooter

@BeddieKU23 It's not hard to imagine a situation where he is better than Tristan.

@Woodrow you feel better now?

FarmerJayhawk said:

rockchalkwyo said:

Please forgive the ignorance. With everyone debating whether Wilson should take a medical redshirt or not made me wonder if Doke can take a medical redshirt for last year. He only played 9 games, and I was wondering what the cut off was for being eligible. Also, there's been discussions on whether he's even a fit in the NBA. Now if he technically can take a RS I don't at all see him doing it, I was just wondering if he's at least eligible.

Please keep rude comments to yourself if I'm just completely wrong on this. I believe that even when I disagree with people on here I do it with respect. We're all Jayhawks here.

I believe so. I think you can apply for a medical if you play <30% of possible games and the injury ends your season. Crazy he could get a master's and still be the age of a typical senior (assuming his listed age is correct, which is debatable).

That would be a major ruling, and once again he would be an unstoppable beast.... But (rethinking myself a bit) the big guy has an NBA (or elsewhere) future - he needs to leave after this season for his own benefit. He can still return to get his masters.

I think If Jalen plays it will be Saturday, any later than that, I see very little shot of him cracking the rotation. I’d say his odds are super slim anyway with how Braun has played the last month.

Self said today Jalen Wilson hasn't practiced at all, not because of the ankle but because of Back Spasms.

Said no final decision made on coming back but added they will soon. Added "getting close to the point where it's probably not worth it".

Dang looks like KU going to be playing 8 guys the rest of the year...

... leg issues can create back problems compensating. Not a shocker. That's likely what led to Embiid's back issues.

@BeddieKU23 Just read that as well. I think if it wasn't for the back spasm setback he would have played this year. Bummer for the kid, but hopefully it works out in the long run. Don't see him playing this year now.

At this point the possibility of Wilson playing a 5th year is more enticing to me than what his hobbled, behind schedule self could bring this year. However, I thought Ochai should’ve saved his red-shirt last year too and he tore it up. 🤷‍♂️

I would not play Jalen this year, if it were up to me. Let him get healthy.

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Bill-Self-give-update-on-KU-basketball-freshman-Jalen-Wilson-back-spasms-injury--143099121/?utm_source=247Sports%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=200130_151611_KansasJayhawks&utm_content=Link ↗

tl;dr he was looking to play against Tennessee and injured his back in practice. JEEEEZUS.

@Marco I normally would agree with you. But, if they really think he can contribute ....and in my mind that means can he help our outside shooting...then I would say let him play. You have to go for a NC when you have the chance. That said, I recall that he looked pretty tentative in the pre-season? That would suggest that he would not be ready to really help. But we are all only guessing.

I don't see much benefit in playing Jalen this year. Unless Dave or Doke go down long term, there's just not much upside to bringing Jalen back this season. He wasn't practicing most of the time because of his injury so his conditioning and development is going to be pretty bad at this point. With Self going to the 4 guard line up, that might be the one thing working in Jalen's favor because he is a stretch 4, but Self has multiple options in that spot already with Ochai, Garrett, Enaruna, and McCormack.

His video and skill set also don't scream that he's a strong candidate to leave early. He has a lot of Perry Ellis in his game and I just don't see NBA athleticism when I look at Jalen. A full season of Jalen Wilson in 2023-24 is going to be of more benefit to KU than a handful of games in 2019-20 coming off of multiple injuries.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Neither do I.

Selfs latest update today.

Translation. .01% chance he plays this season

I hoping he gets healed enough to start playing some scout team minutes here in the next few weeks. A scout team with Harris, Mitch and Jalen seems pretty stout. Will be interesting to see what Self does with Silvio with him not announcing anything at this point. Obviously he still has 7 games left on his big 12 suspension. I’m thinking he probably clears him going into the big 12 tournament. We may need him to eat up a couple of fouls in the postseason.

@kjayhawks I don't think Mitch is doing much of anything on court right now. He had a brace on his right wrist yesterday and wasn't going through any of the pregame drills or shoot around. All he was doing was rebounding for guys. Jankovich also had a boot on his right foot and didn't dress out yesterday either. KU doesn't have much of a scout team right now.

No clue if Mitch is hurt but I saw videos of him shooting half court shots and making one yesterday at shoot around...

@Woodrow I know Jalen made a half court shot, do you have video?

Here is video of Jalen making one: 🐦 View Tweet

I’m pretty sure it was on the KU basketball IG story or their Twitter

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

@Woodrow must have been on the shot, or walking around amongst the cowboys?

I saw him hit it too

@Texas-Hawk-10 as @Woodrow said he was shooting at practice from what I seen on the guys Snapchat’s.

@kjayhawks said in RIP Jalen Wilson:

@Texas-Hawk-10 as @Woodrow said he was shooting at practice from what I seen on the guys Snapchat’s.

Still doesn't change the fact that Lightfoot had a brace on his right wrist and didn't participate in pregame other than shagging rebounds. Like I said during the game chat, I don't know what the injury is or when it happened and since Mitch isn't playing this year, it's not likely to be addressed by Self in a media session either.

It's possible it's nothing serious, or it's possible he hurt it between when that shoot around video was recorded and game day.

I also saw some Instagram pic of him hunting this weekend, guessing today. He was holding up 2 birds, ducks? Forgot, but they were big. Not sure what season it is, there was also a coyote.

Aren't there a few games a player can play in without losing their redshirt? Does that mean we could have played Mitch in a few games without burning his shirt?

@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t believe it’s anything serious personally because Self has announced injuries to those guys in the past like Dwight Coleby. At this point it probably doesn’t matter.

@wissox said in RIP Jalen Wilson:

Aren't there a few games a player can play in without losing their redshirt? Does that mean we could have played Mitch in a few games without burning his shirt?

I believe that’s only for injury that you can play and then redshirt. I’m pretty sure if Mitch plays in one game he burns the redshirt.

Self was asked that question. No not even one game.

Someone asked him on Instagram on a scale of 1-10 how much he is enjoying KU and he replied with 18. You love to see it.

@BShark That’s good to hear. I thought he’d be a flight risk after the injury.

Rj had a weird twitter message about that

@Crimsonorblue22 what?

@dylans said in RIP Jalen Wilson:

@Crimsonorblue22 what?

He's just talking up his friend basically.

🐦 View Tweet

Not really weird at all. He is just saying Jalen will be even more locked in now.

@BShark good!

@Crimsonorblue22 What were you thinking about it?

Next year will be very interesting. Losing our two best players from a team that already struggles to score.

@BShark said in RIP Jalen Wilson:

@Crimsonorblue22 What were you thinking about it?

Next year will be very interesting. Losing our two best players from a team that already struggles to score.

I like next year's squad more from a pure scoring standpoint:

Dotson -> Garrett (downgrade)

Garrett -> Thompson (upgrade)

Ochai -> Also Ochai (upgrade)

Braun -> Braun/Wilson/G-F/Enaruna (upgrade)

Doke -> McCormack (downgrade)

19/20 bench -> 20/21 bench (upgrade) depth! Yay!

@FarmerJayhawk said in RIP Jalen Wilson:

@BShark said in RIP Jalen Wilson:

@Crimsonorblue22 What were you thinking about it?

Next year will be very interesting. Losing our two best players from a team that already struggles to score.

I like next year's squad more from a pure scoring standpoint:

Dotson -> Garrett (downgrade)

Garrett -> Thompson (upgrade)

Ochai -> Also Ochai (upgrade)

Braun -> Braun/Wilson/G-F/Enaruna (upgrade)

Doke -> McCormack (downgrade)

19/20 bench -> 20/21 bench (upgrade) depth! Yay!

Bench should be a pretty big upgrade. Interested to see how Tyon battles for minutes. He does all the things Self demands. Next year more than ever we could see a deeper rotation but will Self do it. We go from Moss, Dave and a barely functional Enaruna to having a bevy of options. How many are all that viable remains to be seen but if the starting line-up is what you suggest in Garrett, Thompson, Agbaji, Braun, Dave... That leaves Tyon, Harris, Jalen, Tristan, Mitch and Silvio all as real bench options. That's pretty deep. The really good news is we should essentially be playing 4 guards but the 4s will have really good size.

I'm not sure Doke to JR McCormack is a straight downgrade in all situations offensively either. Yes Doke is EXTREMELY good at one thing, dunking when in position to do so. We have seen good coaches scheme him out this year. Dave actually being able to hit a jump shot is intriguing and I would expect him to be better than this year with another year of experience under his belt and the offseason to train. I think the bigger loss there will be defensively. Doke is a straight animal on that end this year.

I’m looking forward to watching Marcus Garrett run point next year. I don’t necessarily think it’ll be an upgrade over Dot, but I don’t think it’s as much of a downgrade as most. Obviously he’s not as explosive, but he makes up for it with his IQ. If he can continue to improve his shooting, he’ll be an absolute nightmare for other teams. Of course, in typical MG fashion, it won’t be flashy, but you’ll look after and see his stats and the W and think, Wow. This kid’s good. And that’s not even counting his defense.