This trade is back firing big time, I suggest to bench him
AsadZ
2224 posts
He said something like that Coach Self has told him that he will turn over the keys to him. It would appear that Self has a feeling that Mason will leave after this year.
@Hawk8086 LOL, Thanks for the assist
@jaybate 1.0 Great pot. I really hope that AW3 stays and finishes his career at KU. I envision a good 3rd year and a great senior year from him.
@konkeyDong Examples on changes have been posted many times but you either failed to read or acknowledge.
Implement variety of zone defenses, 1-3-1, 2-3, triangle and 2. Teach them to the players, practice on a regular basis and execute on game day. Keep teams off balance, mix and match your d
Implement more pressing. It was a pity that we had such a talented, athletic and deep team but Self did not press more. He did it on couple of occasions against WV and Stanford but by that time both games were out of reach.
Create more drive and dish in your Offense, stop doing the same weave over and over again.
@justanotherfan Well done and thanks for the analysis.
Below is from Calipari. I am not sure if he really means it but it is interesting to read.
''Every player that I've recruited, and they will tell you, I say the same thing: 'Don't plan on coming to school for one year. You make a huge mistake,''' Calipari said. ''But if after one year, you have options, that will be up to you and your family.
''Enjoy the college experience, enjoy the college environment, because the rest of it is work. It's not about family, it's about business. So enjoy it.''
@HighEliteMajor I think your pills are describing the extreme situations. In my opinion reality is somewhere in between.
Bill Self is a great coach and I'd not trade him for any other coach. His system as some call "Self Ball" works very well. However, it is a complex system and requires experience for good execution.
We are seeing College BB landscape changing at top programs where highly talented players are coming in but they are going to NBA at a much faster pace. As such it is difficult to get the continuity and experience that is an essential element of Self Ball. With that in mind I believe Self needs to adapt too. He needs to be more flexible. He needs to tweak his system a bit.
Furthermore, he needs to get his mojo back and become a better game day coach. I am not saying that he is not good. But it seems that he is getting outcoached more often now. Other coaches are exposing his weaknesses. They are eating his lunch more often.
I will give two examples. First one is the Big 12 Tourney semi finals against ISU. In the 1st half ISU was not doubling up on our post players allowing Ellis to score freely. In the 2nd half ISU changed the game plan and started effective double/trip teaming our post players. They pretty much took Ellis out of the game. But Self did not make any change to the plan despite seeing his guys struggle against ISUs double/triple teams.
The 2nd example is the Stanford game. While Black was the only Big doing any scoring it was clear that scoring inside against the Stanford Bigs will be tough but we kept going inside and kept on missing the shots. It was very frustrating. In addition, Stanford was playing without a pure PG. Self should have recognized the weakness and put this in his game plan for more pressing. But he waited till about 10 mins left in the game to start pressing. By that time it was too late.
In summary, Bill Self is a really good coach but he needs to adapt and make necessary tweaks in his system.
@drgnslayr He may not be the King of College BB but he needs recognition for his accomplishments, he is recruiting top talent, making them play as a team and he is winning. He is hanging banners in the Rupp arena and providing tremendous joy to the UK fans.
I agree that he is not the best as far as Xs and Os of coaching are concerned but overall he is a very good coach. He is teaching and his players make progress during the season. I personally don't like the guy but I give him credit for his achievements.
@drgnslayr I agree 100% with your analysis.
@truehawk93 I have a different opinion. I give tremendous credit to Calipari for what he has accomplished not only this year but in year's past. I know and I am sure most people will agree that even most talented kids needs a lot of coaching and direction. Also, Calipari did not have such high number of OADs at his previous stops like Memphis but he accomplished great success. He has taken his coaching success to an elite level at UK.
If it was only the players, Baylor would be winning Big 12 titles and going to Final Fours but it is clear that Scott Drew is not a very good coach and is unable to maximize the potential of his talented players.
If one takes your approach how would you feel if fans from mediocre programs put KUs success over the past decade only on talented kids coming to the program and giving absolutely no credit to Bill Self.
@HighEliteMajor Definetly our guards - Tharpe, Mason and Selden. I had defended Tharpe and I was hoping that he will show further improvement but I was proven wrong. Its a shame as he had solid progress from his year 1 to year 3 but he could not get it done this year.
@drgnslayr While he has not made a decision as of yet did anyone believe that Embiid would be an OAD before the season had started?
If Turner is a top 3 prospect don't be surprised if he becomes an OAD as well.
@icthawkfan316 I hope Self shows the tape of UConn and FL game to our players especially our guards on how to attack the 1-3-1 zone. The whole game I kept saying to myself what if our guards could do what Napier and Boatright have done this season...
I was really counting on Tharpe to deliver. I actually defended him on this site but after the tourney I realized that he did not get it done, what a shame considering how well he had advanced in the previous years.
@icthawkfan316 I could not believe it myself. I was curious as to what is the criteria?
In the same article there is an update on Mario Little. I am extremely happy to see that he is finally making some noise in the D-League and hoping that he will get a chance in the Big L. I have tremendous admiration for him after he had redshirted as a JUCO transfer and becoming the 1st member in his family to get a college degree.
It is also interesting that KU is looking at 5'10" soph guard from Boston U. I would not be surprised if Tharpe is shown the door.
@JRyman If AW3 decides to transfer I hope he goes to WF and plays for Mr. Manning
@drgnslayr While I don't like the guy I give a ton of credit to Calapari. He has done an incredible job with his talent this year. I concur that teaching OADs is not easy, last year was a disaster for him. I would not have been able to recognize his amazing job I had not witnessed our own challenges with OADs and understand how challenging is to win with Frosh regardless of talent.
Every coach in America tries to recruit the most talented kids, our own coach is no different. Calapari is landing more and more OADs and he is getting into Final Fours and hanging NC banners. The OAD rule is not his but he is maximizing it to his advantage and a ton of joy for the KY fans, hats off to him.
I hope that Self can learn a few things from his coaching style and hopefully we will hang a few more NC banners in AFH.
KUSports.com has put an incredible collection of Wiggins photos under a gallery called "The Best of Andrew Wiggins"
There are some mind blowing pictures of his Dunks, Pure Energy and Super Elevation...
I give him a 10+, What a classy individual, will miss him dearly here at KU but will always root for him.
I'd like Bill Self to be more flexible and play to his players/team's strengths. He seems to be too rigid on his BB philosophies. I am not saying that his style of play doe not work. I admire Self ball immensely, however, it requires tremendous experience and can backfire if you do not adapt.
I'd like Self to implement variety of zone defenses. In addition he should try to utilize his teams strengths, as an example this years team was very deep, long and athletic, perfect for press defenses but Self for the most part did not use it. Stanford game is a perfect example where he should have pressed more from the beginning of the game but he waited till about 10 mins into the 2nd half.
He needs to become a better game's day coach and he can do it if he implement such schemes in his playbook and utilize them on as needed basis.
This is the biggest change needed in my opinion.
@HighEliteMajor I think calling Taylor's career a disaster is too harsh. He did have several off the court issues but on the court you not be realizing that he played out of position after arriving at KU. Furthermore he had to deal with injuries, literally played on one knee in some games and the arrival of X caused some issues regarding his role on the team. Overall he was clutch though.
@HighEliteMajor Taylor was 6ft 6" and Mason is 5ft 10", some difference on finishing at the rim in traffic.
@bskeet Thanks for posting the story on Tarik, what a wonderful story.
@HighEliteMajor Hmm, That's pretty close to how I'd rate them although I have Tharpe rated a bit higher, big surprise :)
Below is my rating and I am taking into account entire body of work:
Tharpe 6.5
EJ 5
Collins 8
Chalmers 9
Robinson 7.5
Miles 8
BTW, What a game last night, full of highlights.
@ajvan AJ, Thanks for the clarification. I can understand where you are coming from on this matter.
@HighEliteMajor HEM, I value you as an extremely knowledgeable and dedicated KU fan. As such I'd like to ask you a question.
When evaluating Tharpe as a point guard, emphasis is on point guard, how would you rate him between the scale of 1-10, 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest.
Furthermore, with the same evaluation criteria, how would you rate some other PGs who have played under Self - EJ, TT, Collins, Chalmers, RR
@drgnslayr BTW I enjoy your posts/comments immensely. I particularly liked your player by player analysis commentary with BBall. It will be nice to go back and read those posts now that 2/3rd of the season is over.
@ralster I heard HCBS entire PC from this week. He was quite pleased with Tharpe's performance and had overall positive comments. Couple of comments below from his PC:
Naadir Tharpe hasn't shot it great the past week. But he's been a consistent shooter this season and is a good passer, creates shots off penetration.
I agree that Tharpe can do better on D, I said it in my original post. But there are many other players who can do better on D, take Perry Ellis as an example. You have highlighted that Tharpe is a junior but you also know that he hardly saw any PT as a FROSH, he was always on a quick hook. With your logic same can be said about Perry Ellis, he is a sophomore and has been in the system a lot. Is he a doing a good job in your opinion on D, I don't recall seeing any comments to that effect. Why haven't you posted any analytical analysis on Ellis D? Do you hold him to a higher standard because he was a McD?
I agree that Tharpe did not play a good game a K-State, but come on you know better that every player, even elite players, go through ups and downs, CBB is a long season.
There is nothing wrong with demanding more but what I am saying is that fans continue to find fault at his game and don't give recognition for how well he has done under the circumstances.
@drgnslayr I appreciate your feedback
When I talk about slamming I was referring to criticism that has been put on him on this board recently:
Passive
Cant defend
Out of control
Ineffective
Some of this may be knee jerk reaction but what amazed me most is that some folks are now suggesting that a projected #24 ranked Frosh could replace him as the starter next year.
Speaking about the Yankee fans, I hear you loud and clear.
I am tired of posters continuing to slam Tharpe and find fault at his game. Earlier in the season some fans were claiming that Mason is the best PG on the team. Now some folks are alluding that Jacquan Lyle, who has not played a single min of Div 1 BB, would replace him simply because he is 6'4". Come on give me a break.
Its amazing how quickly people forget. We had a long and athletic Freshman PG on the roster last season and we know how difficult it was for him to adjust to this level. It happens with most Frosh. Even TT was mediocre in his 1st year and we know what had happened to Russell Robinson.
Is Tharpe a perfect PG, absolutely Not. Does he have deficiencies, absolutely Yes. I also believe that a lot of his D issues are caused by rule changes this year. But overall he has played well this year. He is the QB of this team. I am so grateful for how well he is doing because if we did not have him we would be in deep trouble. Even his HC is pleased with his performance, just listen to Self's press conference from yesterday.
Every player has off nights, look at our Star players - Selden, Ellis even Wiggins, they all have disappeared in a few games.
Instead of being thankful for what Tharpe has done well this year fans are continuing to bitch and I hope that this negativity comes to an end.
@wissoxfan83 Just one comment that Justin is not getting free education. He is a walk on and his brother Keith L has been paying for his college tuition.
I agree that just the overall experience of being part of the tradition rich program like KU is priceless, and I am glad that Justin has enjoyed his time at KANSAS. He has always had a good attitude which I really appreciated. I hope that he can make good coin playing Pro ball overseas.
Mario Little's suspension was indefinite. Good news is that he is practicing with the team. I am optimistic that he will be back for the next game.
On a different thread a lot of fans were pointing out Tharpe's shortcomings. Fans were asking questions like "Can We Get More" from Tharpe. While it is OK to ask more from every player I have one question for Tharpe's critics? What would be our record without Tharpe's contribution to this team?
I saw below from Jesse Newell Blog today that summarizes Tharpe's contribution very well:
Stat of the Day
"Win share" is an advanced statistic on Basketball-reference.com that attempts to measure how many wins a player contributes to his team through his offensive and defensive contributions. In KU's 10 Big 12 games, the team leader in win share is not Wiggins (1.3), Embiid (0.9) or Perry Ellis (1.2) ... instead it's Naadir Tharpe at 1.5. In conference play, Tharpe has made 63 percent of his 2s (19 of 30), 51 percent of his 3s (18 of 35) and 88 percent of his free throws (21 of 24).
Just imagine the scenario if Tharpe had not developed into a solid PG like he has done over the last two years. Some folks are saying that Mason is a better PG that Tharpe. I disagree 100%. If Mason was a better PG Bill Self would be starting him over Tharpe. Self did give the keys to Mason for a few games earlier in the season when he thought Tharpe was not doing enough and we had seen how did that change turn out, not too good. Mason is not a creator PG. He has a scorer mentality like Tyshawn. I admit that Mason has amzing speed and he has the ability to become a solid PG but right now Tharpe is the better option. Mason is looking to score first rather than making plays for his teammates like Tharpe does. He drives into heavy traffic and most of the times his shots are either blocked or he misses them. Tharpe had taken over in crucial games when he had realized that he had to, other guys were not scoring.
Come on folks, enjoy the ride with what we have in our point guard.
@icthawkfan316 A lot of fans are complaining about Tharpe's shortcomings. I ask them one question? What would be our record without Tharpe?
I saw below from Jesse Newell Blog today that summarizes Tharpe's contribution to this team:
Stat of the Day
"Win share" is an advanced statistic on Basketball-reference.com that attempts to measure how many wins a player contributes to his team through his offensive and defensive contributions. In KU's 10 Big 12 games, the team leader in win share is not Wiggins (1.3), Embiid (0.9) or Perry Ellis (1.2) ... instead it's Naadir Tharpe at 1.5. In conference play, Tharpe has made 63 percent of his 2s (19 of 30), 51 percent of his 3s (18 of 35) and 88 percent of his free throws (21 of 24).
Let us enjoy the ride with what we have in our point guard.
@HighEliteMajor Tharpe will never be an elite defender but his D has improved a lot. He is what I call adequate. He has a size disadvantage but he is now able to hold against opponents fairly well.
He had a tough game yesterday but keep in mind that he was going against one of the best/quickest guards in the Big 12. Not many guards have been able to stop WV guards. They are really good, Self complimented as best in Big 12.
I do agree that he needs to attack more against Zone D and I am hopeful that with greater coaching emphasis and practice he will be able to get it done.
@ralster Scott D is the only HC I have seen come to a game with prepared notes. You can see him going over the notes and talking to his assistants about the notes. He must be inept at coaching during the games so he has to rely on the notes.
@RockChalkinTexas Thanks a lot. It is always great to see HCBS in the locker room after the victor.
@icthawkfan316 Just read below from Jesse Newell:
Naadir Tharpe has failed to put up 0.90 points per possession in just four games this season. In each of those four contests (Villanova, Florida, San Diego State, Texas), KU lost the game
@JayHawkFanToo I hope that you are right as I firmly believe Embiid is one player who can dominate on both ends for us to be playing in Dallas come April. I hope that he can get back in form when he was shooting over 60% from the floor but has struggled badly in the last two games.
@icthawkfan316 That had caught my attention as well and I am glad that you have brought it up. I agree with your assessment that TT was a better scorer and Tharpe is a better shooter. Also, TT was a much better defender, simply due to his size although Naa has gotten much better.
Mid way through last year I did not believe that Naa would survive at KU, too many TOs and lack of confidence, he was in HCBS dog house big time. But what a turnaround by him, hats off to Tharpe for his accomplishments.
@JayhawkRock78 It is obvious that Joel E is not the same player. One can tell from his facial expressions. He is playing scared. He is lacking aggressiveness. He is unable to finish. His control is not good.
Is he too consumed in the 1st overall pick hype or is this the result of playing with a bad knee. If injury than I blame the coach as he should be given the rest, sit him in the next couple of games and let Black and Lucas handle the duties because I really believe that he is the key for our title hopes this year
Changing the topic to Mason, when will he learn. Not only he allowed Heslip to get open 3s in the first half he is out of control on Offense. He is a point guard. He should be looking for his teammates instead of looking to score all the time. He continues to drive in the paint in heavy traffic and most of the times his shot is either blocked or he cant finish. Very frustrating
He has tremendous abilities. He must learn to use his speed to create team Offense and not be looking to score himself.
Furthermore what's up with our guys in not understanding to milk some clock late in the game. There were at least two occasions I can remember from last night where Ellis and Embiid took ill advised jumpers within 5-10 seconds of the shot clock and missed them giving the ball back to Baylor. When will they learn to close become smart BB players. Ellis is now a sophomore and he should not be making such mistakes
@FarSideHawk On point 3 , below is from Jesse Newell
KU's offensive gameplan still confused me, though. Much like the San Diego State loss, the Jayhawks continued to try to challenge big men on Saturday after it had been established in the first half that KU wasn't having much success inside.
I understand that the Jayhawks' interior offense is a strength, and I also get that KU coach Bill Self would like to have his team do what it does best in as many games as possible.
Saturday seemed like an obvious example, though, when KU should have adjusted to shoot more 3-pointers.
It's not exactly a secret: The Longhorns struggle to defend the 3-point line. According to KenPom, 36.6 percent of opponents' field goals against UT have been from 3 (59th-highest mark nationally), as others have recognized the Longhorns' strength inside and tried to not play into it.
@FarSideHawk All good points. TX exposed us. KU has a tough time long and athletic teams, recall games against FL, SDSU.
Perry is not the same player when going against long/tough Bigs. Once his shots get blocked he gets frustrated and that impacts his overall game. Embiid was having difficulty keeping his balance, perhaps the knee was bothering him.
Coach Self will have to figure out a way how to utilize his weapons effectively when faced with similar teams in the future
TX exposed KU weakness - match up problems against long, athletic guys, recall games against Florida, SDSU.
Our guys have not figured out how to play against these L&As and look very soft in the process.
This was a tough game to watch, KU got beat at its own game. Hope that boys will bounce back on Tuesday.
@JayHawkFanToo What happens if Embiid is back next year, serious log jam in the front court. Embiid, Alexander, Traylor, Lucas, Ellis, Mickelson - Self will have a real problem in his hands with PT and managing egos and expectations.
@bskeet Wiggins shoulders are BROAD. He has also lean muscle. One can tell that he has got more muscle definition since his arrival at KU, thanks to our strength & conditioning star coach. If he gains another 10-15 lbs. he will be a monster.
On the same topic look at Embiid's body now compared to 6 months ago, night and day.
@drgnslayr I strongly believe that Lucas is an extremely bright and intelligent young man. One can tell that he has a solid up bringing by the parents. I am convinced that he will have a great college and pro career.
Off topic and not to look ahead the game on Sat in Austin will be a tough challenge. TX has won 5 in a row with several quality wins.
This is great JB. I like your taste, lady (red hair) in red.