BShark said:
Easily Leech's first big offer, maybe his first D1 offer. I know KU offered before his SO year. He is so, so good.
Definitely, I'm waiting to see some new video on him. Any clue what AAU team he ended up on?
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
Agree, he should be apart of the class. I just feel that he'll want assurance Newman isn't here first.
jayballer54 said:
Ya know, I realize still another year off BUT mercy looks like sure seems like 2019 if we play it right could be a monster year for us in recruiting. So many players we are high on or they are high on us.
Hurt - - Jeffries - - Leech - - Lawson - - Robinson Earl - - Harvey & then committed Jacobs.
Everyone of these guys we are leading - -and leading big, Example: Leech 100 % KU and not only that - -KU is the only one he shows interest as in warm - all others cool interest, -Robinson Earl the same - -KU only one of interest KU 100 % and warmer all others cool interest. Harvey the same 100% KU all others cool. - -thing is with Harvey sounds like he is planning on attending KU late night AGAIN this yr, attended last year, went to some games - o me - -that sounds like this kid wants to play here bad all we have to do is show continued interest. DJ Jeffries, list us in his top five -all including us is cool right now but could be he is just focusing in play right now no favorite at this point that I see.
Read off there too that yes we are in the lead now as we thought might happen for Chandler Lawson. - CB showing us with 71% to Memphis 29% and we know the story there. Pipeline here to Ku with the brothers so that would look good
My question becomes if we have a scenario where we have the opportunity for same type of players with not a huge gap in talent or ranking using Harvey who seems like he REALLY wants to come and we got another very talented player that wants to come - - what do we do? - -Do we shun/ignore our local talented kid for the other? - -could that not come back to bit us in the ass later? Say we ignore Robinson Earl - -Harvey - -Berry. - - should we just look the other way from local talent that can be really solid? for another player of equal or maybe some better - that's kind of touchy ground if you ask me - -could get a bad rap out of that, bad reputation locally - -so what do we do? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Robinson Earl has UNC and others after him. In the end if KU puts the effort in I do see him staying local. He's not someone you pass on, it just won't happen.
Harvey, same position has others starting to show interest but KU will have the best shot if they make him priority. As long as he continues to improve he's got a great chance of staying home.
Leech likes KU, we'll see if anything has changed with him. We got in early for him which helps.
I think Chandler Lawson is a lock. Have no idea what Jeffries will do.
Hurt I think ends up in Big-10 country, just my gut feeling at the moment. There's been a lot of movement for KU in 19
We don't hear much about Grimes and with Zona, Duke and others invested in him you can never be certain he'll end up here. I think the key to him ending up at KU is Newman ballin out and going pro. We are not going to land his caliber of talent without having the spot handed to him from day-1.
Getting Charlie Moore took the pressure off getting Dotson. I expect we may back off or Dotson will see that KU has already signed someone similar to him. Which sucks because I do think Dotson is really good and have been very high on his game
Agree on the Grimes/Carey pairing, great size, athletic ability, the whole package.
All good points, he's got a battle on his hands. I'm not projecting him to be an NBA All-Star (if he does that would only add to his incredible rise) but I'm optimistic he finds a role in the NBA and has some success.
Defense will definitely be his biggest initial struggle if he ends up in someone's rotation. I'm not worried about him finding ways to score because he is IMO one of the top 5 scorers going into the draft. We'll see what happens, I know a lot of KU fans will be watching to see where he ends up and how he translates to the league
Duke has kicked the tires on Grimes and Dotson (Dotson more so lately then ever). Sounds like McCormack could be Duke's to lose which sucks, he's a huge dude with some considerable upside still to him as he continues to shape his body.
And I agree it would be nice to not be up against them for some of our top targets.
Reid has a handler so if the handler wants him at ST J's, well we know how that goes down
Definitely there's some optimism with Carey right now. I also think that what AS is hearing could be the after effect of him being offered and we'll see if that changes if Carey continues to produce on the AAU circuit. I think a few more big programs will enter the discussion for him because I don't see a tremendous difference between him and the guys ranked ahead of him at the PG position.
We'll see what happens with this guy moving forward, pulling kids from the East is hard if he's not open to leaving (which he mentioned was not an issue)
Frank's PER was 25.5 this season which is pretty darn good. His jump from Jr to Sr year was 7.4..Obviously its an entirely different game going to the NBA but do you think his PER translates to the league if his development from where he is now can continue to move forward?
Isaiah Thomas had a PER of 22.1 in his final yr at Washington on similar usage as Mason. I would have included the others but I did not find any data for them..
I know numbers can tell some of the story but its always a crapshoot to know what drives a player to be All-Star good, like Thomas who's ascended to become what he is through a lot of work and dedication to his craft.
When looking at Frank Mason I think there is a lot of qualities that say he's not going to fail at this. His competitiveness and work ethic are what got him where he is now, which is a chance at the NBA. I know we all love Frank and we might have some bias projecting his future in the league but everything we know about Frank points to a player that will work tirelessly until he makes it
This was in Duke recruiting but relevant to KU.
Question - Jalen Carey
Answer - Kansas
And I consider it reliable from the one person who does have a lot of contacts within AAU
I would think taking care of the football would be apart of any discussion of how this KU team could be better. Was the turnovers an anomaly? This years squad will have to prove its not
I'm pulling for Frank harder then any KU player that's gone onto the draft. He must do well this week in the Combine and I can't imagine he's going to disappoint in a setting where he's in a show and prove situation. As a PG and a scoring assassin he's got an advantage going into this process. I really hope he makes it in the league
Yes he's better then his current ranking and he'll rise up whenever they make their updates. There are definitely not 15 better PG's then him, even with the PG position IMO having the most depth in the entire class. He's got NBA potential down the road
He's 6'3, long and a really good athlete. He also defends which I think enhances his reputation. I think he'll end up in the 40ish area, but it all depends if he gets his team to Peach Jam and keeps performing at the level he's been at. I also think he'll get some more offers which can also influence his ranking..
He had a game recently where he went for 36 and made 6 3's so he's definitely got the ability to take a game over.
I hope we keep after him because the local schools have done their work with him early and consistently. He's been interested in KU for a while and has a good relationship with Norm which can always be a plus. With Charlie Moore on the roster we probably are not going to be as attractive to him as he wants to play early.
Syracuse just offered him after seeing him in the last session. I don't see him as a fit there. Not sure about Notre Dame although he is a program fit for them. Miami has started to go after him and he mentioned the ACC as intriguing for the style of play he wants to play in.
We will have to fight off the 2 East Schools (Uconn, Seton Hall where he's visited unofficially and who talks to him daily) and Miami at the moment. Not sure where he falls in priority list but we definitely have work to make up for him. Said he wants to play early and be in a style of play that fits him (mentioned ACC & Pac-12 for that). We'll see what happens, he's going to get more offers
I don't think the guys wanted to go to Italy anyway, we should just close the doors now. Every fanbase has some jack-rabbits
Good point, I think as you mentioned Self recruited all these transfers to prevent the down year. He knew that years of putting guys in the league was going to come back at some point and after this year with the graduation of Graham he's at a true turning point for the "old recruiting" methods.
Today's landscape has changed and these guys who have D-1 experience, talent, and a sit-out year are going to be better players for KU outside of the Zion/Bagley/Barrett trio. It's a gamble either way but we should be rewarded in the end
He'll play for Duke next year.
Zona would take him as an upgrade to the 2 PG's they have on roster as well so I guess anything can happen as we have seen with Knox.
Seton Hall signed a PG just outside the Top 150 this week to fill their 13 up so that tells you where they stand.
Baylor was never a serious factor and Self kicked the tires enough to stick around but Graham coming back sealed that for us.
Duval is the perfect example of a kid who'd benefit from going straight to the NBA now if the rules allowed. He'd save coaches all the worries of recruitment and all the hoopla he's put fans through for the past year
BShark said:
Agree. I mentioned in a thread on the shiver that I'll worry more when the on court product starts slipping.
which is a good thing we aren't Duke fans right now. that's a depressing state of fanbase right now
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
Yes, Duke & Arizona have spots open. Even Kentucky could take him at this point even though they never were in it for him (which is the most shocking part of this kids entire recruitment).
There are a lot of imcomplete rosters still even in the 2nd week of May.
Yet people are bitching about Self, KU's recruiting etc...
I find no matter what there will be whining..
JayHawkFanToo said:
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
Yes, Duke & Arizona have spots open. Even Kentucky could take him at this point even though they never were in it for him (which is the most shocking part of this kids entire recruitment).
There are a lot of imcomplete rosters still even in the 2nd week of May.
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 Ya , I know. - -The longer this carries on and let me make this clear I by far am not looking for him to say he is coming here, no way BUT seems like the longer he drags his out, doesn't it seem like he loves to be the center of attention ?
It has become very obvious he wants to make sure his announcement is the only one of the day. - -Is he a me, me, me guy? Beginning to look like it , not sure we would really want a player like that anyways, not sure if he would fit or become more of a bigger distraction and cost the team in the long run. - - Might be better that we DO have a Garrett in the mix after all. - -4 year player, more of a team player maybe. Not saying they are on the same level but still. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Agree with all of it.
jayballer54 said:
Just have to laugh when a kid announces that he is about ready to announce when he is going to announce - you follow that lol ? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
you shouldn't be surprised with Duval.
Its been great seeing Self become flexible with his recruiting, he's adapted.
I think he realizes that you take what is available nowadays. Getting the top kids out of HS is becoming even more of a crap-shoot. If your recruiting a top player and you have a player returning that could reasonably be resistance to that incoming freshman for playing time, forget about it. This cycle is a perfect example of that for KU.
I've started to see all these transfers in the thought that Self didn't want them going somewhere else. Newman, Lawson's, Cunliffe, Moore these are all guys that any program would have wanted playing for them. Self has struck "transfer gold"
JhwkSqdn said:
@drgnslayr Too cynical about Danny's leaving, while not giving enough credit to Self's concepts and teaching. Wake Forrest doesnt even look like an ACC-caliber team. Could it be that various kids simply havent panned out, for very different reasons? Lucas no hops, no hands, no fast twitch, not an alpha. Bragg showed promise Yr 1, even in the WUG, then flops in all areas despite KU-level coaching. Watch that Udoka kid. Find some faith.
Wake Forest did make the tournament this year which was a major step forward for Danny and the program.
And the most glaring example of Danny's success with post players is John Collins.
A 3 star recruit (220th on 247) who he's gotten to the NBA in 2 seasons and will be picked in the 1st round.
We've mentioned this kid before.
Jalen Carey 2018 combo guard from NY received a KU offer. Slater and Meyer CB'd him to KU. If Slater knows something that would be something to watch.. Carey is very good! Typical Self guard.
Also to mention, he's having a very good spring in AAU. 6'3 Top 50'ish type IMO
It's tough, other than the Texas schools there is not another recruiting "hotbed" in the entire Big-12 area. So everyone recruits out of state really for players.
I can't laugh enough
BShark said:
Interesting position label he gave himself.
a Center he is not. that's funny
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking
Mystery of the century revealed.
At least he was pretty straight forward in that post. The bit about KU not being done if Tilmon/Duval go elsewhere combined with other bits makes it seem like Svi is leaving and so is Coleby.
Yeah I think the staff can't close 2017 yet without knowing if Coleby is leaving after this semester or Svi stays in the draft. Still lots of players out there.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
If we are to take what Matt is saying we are not getting Tilmon.. Not even a visit..
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking.
I missed this, where is it?
- Basically saying he thought Tilmon would visit but sounds like that's not happening or not likely on the books right now. Things may change but there wasn't much confidence in that post.
It was a really stupid reaction by Kelly. I guess Kelly O had it coming his way from reading some other stuff about it. Excessive, definitely. Likely to miss a game at least
Went all WWF on Kelly Olynyk last night.
Oubre responded to a dirty pick by Olynyk in some kind of way.
WOW.
pic.twitter.com/1KZ62aj71K
If we are to take what Matt is saying we are not getting Tilmon.. Not even a visit..
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking
dylans said:
What happened to T. Mack from Texas? Why'd he get kicked? Seemed like he was coming on strong.
Not much has been released on him, still don't know why he was shown the door but he had to have pissed off Smart because it was him who suspended him and not the school. Here's what I found
Those schools include South Carolina, Clemson, East Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Connecticut, Wake Forest, Georgia, DePaul and North Carolina.
Mack was home for spring break last week but did not visit any schools. He is going to finish the semester at Texas and then go from there to decide on his new school.
“I think he’s really waiting for the coaching changes and what players are transferring out or in,” Ms. Mack said. “He said it’s going to be much closer to South Carolina than he was. When he first talked about leaving, he said it’s more than likely an ACC or SEC school.”
Another interesting note. ASU signed another transfer Zylan Cheatham from San Diego St the other day, plays the same position as Carlton and is pretty good. Carlton might not even start there..
kjayhawks said:
Well this really surprised me, I figured if we were to sneak in a big it would be from the Jusiton kid. Clearly that ship has sailed. This kid looks to be better that Coleby and Lightfoot right now. He will be in the rotation without question. Looks to have great foot work and hands, someone that Doka could learn a lot from and has a fair amount of D1 PT. Bill Self pulls a rabbit outta a hat again.
Definitely the ship sailed on Juiston after the Lawson's came on board. Handler's got involved with Shakur anyway and put him at UNLV..
Whitman might be better anyway from what this team needs. He's bigger, athletic enough around the hoop and has D1 experience which Shakur didn't have. We can probably interchange him at both the 4 and 5 spots in lineups which is another advantage.
I think we made out in this unofficial trade deal.
ASU fans were pissed at Cunliffe for having "baggage"
Well ASU fans you just gained yourself a few more bags with Bragg.
If Bill Self can't get the best out of you, I fail to believe Hurley is some magician.
Maybe a fresh start is all he need but he pretty much blew millions not going pro after his freshman year and may never get that window again.
Good luck to him, except if he has to play us..
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Kevin Young 2.0?
Maybe, I'm not sure he's the comparison that best fits Whitman. He looks like he can take contact and finish which is a nice thing to see from someone who finishes most of his baskets at the rim. I just like how he knows what he is supposed to do, no hesitation, he understands angles and pivoting to get his man going another way. Very optimistic he can fit in the rotation
All the video's I've seen point to a player with some really nice footwork, can catch the ball, survey what is happening around him, and make quick fluid moves to the basket. Unless Preston comes ready to play this seems more then just a depth move.
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 So guess I have this question. With so many misses in high school recruits this year and so many and then relying on so many transfers this year do you consider this year in recruiting a good year - -a so , so year or a down year?
The Lawson's is solid , This guy I feel not so much , Cunliffe , might be fine , Charlie Moore I'm taking a wait and see with him. I know probably just me BUT I just feel that this has been a little frustrating on the recruitment trail this year - MAN I hope I'm wrong. so what do you think? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I'm not sure its a down year, actually we are probably in uncharted territory here with how many transfers we are taking.
Landing Newman last year seemed to have scared off other guards we were so desperately going after. Probably the only one that would have been as good as Malik this season would have been Sexton. So in the end losing out on all guard targets except Garrett sucks but we still have really good options. Newman is likely to be a 1st team All Big-12 player, can't complain if he performs.
Speaking of Garrett, he makes the class good in my opinion. I hope my confidence in his game pays off. Exciting kid, exactly the type Self loves.
The Ayton miss and the non-existent other options in the post besides Preston is the most puzzling aspect of this years recruiting class. Preston is such a wildcard. He thinks he's a OAD, he will be a OAD regardless of his season. I just hope he's eligible otherwise the Whitman signing was more then just "depth". If Preston can be coached Self will have fun with him.
Cunliffe, solid addition if he matures. He better get on board with the rest of the team and fit in. Messy situation leaving ASU, usually where there is smoke of a kid being detrimental to a team usually that isn't the type Self goes after. I'm hoping he was just immature and needed a better situation. Bouncy, can shoot and create his own. Rebounds, some potential defensively. Lots to like.
The 3 sit-outs will be very good here although the Moore signing left us IMO 1 scholarship short for this year that we could have used to create a 6 perimeter, 5 post situation, great depth, covers injuries, etc. But Self is gambling on Moore paying off in the future so we must get on board I guess.
Lawson, definite favorite for Big-12 POY and All American when he's eligible. Seems like the other Lawson still has some potential to max out. Home run signings IMO.
So while its always great to get the best High School kids out there it seems Self has really changed his mind on finding the best talent out there regardless of what it is. Former Top HS kids, Newman- Top 10, Cunliffe- Top 40, Lawson- Top 30, Lawson- Top 60, Moore- Top 75 now find themselves on KU's roster. Will be interesting to see how they all mesh.
and might put up efficient scoring #'s in those minutes. This is potentially a nice move
Looks like KU is officially transfer U
Whitman had 13 and 4 against Duke in 16 minutes
3 and 6 against Louisville in 19 minutes
8 and 4 against Rhode Island in 24 minutes
Had 21 against UNC Wilmington, highest of the season.
Efficient scorer, can't go wrong.
Some advanced stats on Whitman
Made 91 of 132 shots at the rim good for 68.9%. Landen this season was 94 of 131.
Made 14 of 27 2 point jumpers good for roughly 52%. Landen was 19 of 48 on 2 point jumpers.
Terribly FT shooter- 92 of 154.
PER 0f 22, which would have been 3rd best on last years squad. His Offensive rating would have been 2nd on the team this past year.
We'll see, looks like solid depth for either spot.
I'm surprised by this as I thought he had visits to UNC, Clemson & George Washington lined up..
If Coleby is in fact leaving and I think the staff thinks Svi is gone as well that would leave us potentially 1 more spot open..
justanotherfan said:
The question for the combine is simple. Are you a pro or not?
For some guys, they are kind of in a prove it position (Frank is in this group). NBA scouts want to see how they perform against top prospects to see if they have a chance to handle NBA level competition. If you have NBA level athleticism and skill set, there is no harm in declaring and testing the waters. If, however, your skillset is lacking or your athleticism is subpar, there is definitely some harm in being exposed, but if that's the case, you may not be a pro anyway.
@wissox brings up Bronson Koenig. He's a nice player. Very good college player who took and made a ton of big shots in his career at Wisconsin. But if you evaluate him like an NBA scout would, here's the report:
1. Average athlete at best
2. Undersized 2 guard
3. Cannot play PG
4. Solid shooter (but not elite) - never shot above 45% from three in college
5. Secondary skills below average - doesn't rebound, pass or handle at above average levelIf that's the consensus scouting report (and it likely is), why bother inviting him when his ceiling is D-League rotation guy.
As opposed to say, Melo Trimble. Trimble did not have as strong a collegiate career as Koenig. But Trimble's report would read something like this:
1. Decent size for a PG
2. An average to above average athlete
3. Below average perimeter shooter
4. Rebounds well for a PG (nearly 4 per game in his career)
5. Solid defensive chops, needs to be drilled on scheme and technique
6. Turnover happyCeiling as a fringe starter, floor of a backup PG.
That's the cold reality of NBA scouting. Koenig doesn't get the invite because his best hope in the NBA is a shorter, poorer shooting Kyle Korver (Korver is 6-7 and never shot lower than 42.9% from three in his college career - Koenig is 6-4 and never shot higher than 40.5% from three in his college career). Trimble does because his worst case scenario is something like Cameron Payne - a career backup PG.
Really good post.
Do you think Devonte is in a similar situation? He didn't even test the waters for whatever reason but there may have been concern that his scouting report wouldn't have been favorable in some of the things like Athleticism, Size, consistent perimeter shooting etc and that made it easier for him to skip and hope for the best next season. I have read that some really loved him but others wanted to see him be the leader and be the main PG before they could trust him at the next level.
HighEliteMajor said:
I would be interested in the number of seniors who tested the waters last time, and then didn't get invites this year. Not aware of any. One theory I have heard is that once scouts and GMs form opinions, it's hard to change them after workouts. A supposed reason not to test the waters -- in contrast to the "there's no harm in declaring without an agent."
Nigel Hayes of Wisconsin is the only one I believe that wasn't invited back to the combine this year.
Players who attended last season, invited again.
Jaron Blossomgame of Clemson
Josh Hart of Nova
Justin Jackson of UNC
Melo Trimble of Maryland
Caleb Swanigan of Purdue
In this case Swanigan, Hart & Jackson all improved their stock by coming back. Trimble and Blossomgame are who they are.
Interesting to Note. Only 3 players that attended last years Combine are still in College. 2 of them, Newman and Lawson are now on KU. The 3rd, Marcus Lee sat out a yr at Cal and is scheduled to play his final year there.
Self currently has 32 offers extended in the 2018 class. 30 if we subtract the two who already committed to schools.
We know he can't sign all 30, he won't even get 3-4 from the looks of it.
Best bets so far are Grimes and Dotson based on how much early recruiting the staff has done with those. Likely to get 1 of them if we are lucky after getting Charlie Moore.
Definitely need bigs and a top SF would be another need.
It's common for Self to extend that many offers. I think last year they handed out over 30. Cast the net wide, see who bites and recruit from there. Self can't be selective like the other elite recruiting schools.