yes looks like they can go along and be student managers at least..
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
Tough to say because if you factor in 30 minutes min for Ellis and assume Diallo starts off with 25 minutes at least you would have to say Bragg is lucky to get 10-15 minutes a game.
What will be interesting is that Self can use Bragg as a backup to Ellis, you bring in a more athletic, longer, post with legitimate 3 point ability. I think defensively Bragg will struggle early as most do but I expect his contribution to be noticeable as the season goes by. The best thing for Bragg was Ellis coming back so that he could learn from him, and get enough PT to set him up for a big Soph campaign.
You make very valid points about first year bigs. The norm has been that Self bigs take at least a year to grasp the system before the light-bulb comes on. If Cliff had stayed and been eligible its hard to imagine he wouldn't have corrected a majority of the issues he had. He probably would have gained a great deal of skill in the off-season and been a key member but we will never know. He wasn't ready but we didn't have much of an alternative. So we rinse and repeat the cycle again with 2 new bigs with completely different skill sets.
I'm not going to bias my opinion of Diallo or Bragg based on the past though. I think this year we will see Diallo have a similar impact that Embiid did. From an effort standpoint alone, he's already ahead of most freshman. That will accelerate a lot of his coaching and effort is something Coach always prides his players on. The skill within the system will have to be taught, and who knows if he will learn it quick enough.
What's the alternative to Diallo...Lucas? Mickelson? Short Traylor? In the past our freshman bigs have been stuck behind talented kids with years in the system so they had no choice but to learn by waiting. Even Embiid had to learn initially from Tarik Black, but there's no NBA player sitting in Diallo's way. We really don't have a choice this year, its all in Diallo or nothing. I don't think we will be disappointed, defensively he could be a game changer and offensively he will do enough to earn his keep.
Bragg has the more traditional approach waiting for him. Learn from Ellis and make the most of the minutes you do get. We will like his outside game, it will allow a lot more offensive flexibility in the post. We won't need Bragg to be a star from day 1 but hopeful he will learn to be a serviceable backup like Graham was last year for Mason in his first year.
We might all be over-hyping these freshman but we won't know until we see it in action. And we won't have to wait long either, Bragg will be in action In June-July & I'm sure we will get updates about Diallo's progress as well. I would tend to be optimistic that we see a positive impact from both.
It's a bummer they cannot even play in exhibition games. Not really familiar on why that would be. But at least practice wise it will be great for them.
Coach should have much more flexibility running his Hi/Low offense this year. Diallo & Bragg bring a lot of dimensions to this team. The question will be how quickly can they adjust to the demands of his system. But if Self uses them correctly in the system then we should benefit greatly from their additions. Bragg is more pick and pop until he grasps the college game. Diallo you probably want to screen & roll him a lot and keep him close to the basket because he's a magnet going after the ball. I don't see any reason to drag Diallo away from the basket at any point other than to set up an attack that will lead him 2 feet from the basket.
I sure hope that "dream weave" goes away. Just ugly offense that even 7th 8th graders could guard. It was effective in some games, especially when it came out of no where but when its scouted there was no chance that it could keep getting results. We used to wrinkle that offense in with set screens for shooters but I didn't seem to notice those wrinkles last year. It didn't seem to be effective in spacing either..
And it looks like we will still add a wing either by Vick, Eubanks and unlikely Mack to our deep back court. Self will truly have a roster of riches at that point to which he can scheme for this season with. Honestly I didn't take much from his comments that he shouldn't have already known during the season. The story on Lucas shed light to the amount of injuries he had including a surgery. Hopefully he's back in the weight room soon which is my biggest goal for him this year. How much did his plethora of injuries cost him last year? Regardless he tried hard, he may never be the talent we need down low but at some point you would think 4 seasons in that a step up can happen.
Just saw neither is eligible for the exhibition games. Bummer but at least they can practice
I would assume they can practice and participate in the exhibition games. The exhibition games are not part of the WUG but tune up games for preparation.
Practices & exhibition's fall under the NCAA rules and the Korea games under the WUG rules.
You would think they get to at least participate with the team in everything leading up to it.
June 7th start of practice, I'm sure something will come out soon officially stating if they can or not.
I wonder if the NCAA or NBA will end up taking this guy to court. All it's going to take is 1 high profile kid to take this kind of deal before they take notice and fight back. I mean the NCAA wants the top kids in school at least a year, and the NBA wants them in school at least a year to protect the product and the development process.
The money is definitely enticing for kids to consider but it sounds like a glorified European tour. A lot of things to consider. Will this guy pay for all their travel and stay in cities. Who's going to coach them?
I believe we are not involved with either at this point. Mack visiting Texas and committing next week means he's making sure Texas is the place for him.
Ballock is a must sign. We complain that top talent isn't available every year for KU to choose from in the KU area. Well this is one of the rare moments. He's going to be somewhere in the 25-50 range by the time he's a senior and that's perfectly okay. He does a lot of things already that Self would like to have on his team. Have to lock down the local talent when its worthy and this is one of those times.
San Diego St is a true road game. Michigan st and a potential sec game against a top tier team will carry this schedule. Harvard always good, Oregon St returns a lot plus added a bunch of highly rated recruits. UC irvine has a 7"5 guy and they made the tourney last year. Then potential good games in Maui it's not going to be easy..
Then you add in the big 12 being just as hard again we will have top 10 schedule again. But a much better chance of 30+ wins
Seems clear we will get somebody. Mack seems out with him visiting Texas and no scheduled visit to KU before his announcement next week. Vick, Eubanks come on down...
He's good, he can shoot and has good size to play the 2 and could probably slide to the 3 if needed. Has had good showings this spring and played well against Jackson #1 a few weeks ago. Be shocked if we can't lock him down.
There has been some good talent in Texas lately. Texas A&M just pulled an entire class from the state with 4, 4 star players who all will play a big role in making them a better team. We were after Davis, a lot of us fans wanted Davis. The top 10 kids in Texas this year is pretty strong, 4 of them staying in the Big 12 and as mentioned 4 going to the SEC. 2014 class was so strong Winslow was the 5th best prospect in the state who we wanted btw.
Couldn't agree more, Texas is the most fertile recruiting lands in proximity to KU. I think because we don't have the amount of recruits every year near us to choose from Self has made all his recruiters National guys. It would be great if Snacks could be the Chicago/Texas connection. We know he can recruit the Chi area but what else. If he really is the lead recruiter for Ferguson a top 10 kid, then getting him would really put us on the map with future Texas kids. I think Snacks is definitely coaching for his stay here after his law altercation so if he doesn't start producing then maybe Self will get a guy from Texas with connections.
Your right our recent winning % in Texas has been dreadful. But this 16 class could be different because a lot of our main targets are Texas kids. Ferguson, Fox, Bolden especially, Herard to name a few all kids with KU connections and all from Texas.
Turner was a small town kid who felt obligated as you said to stay in Texas. Not sure the circumstances with others but especially all the 16 kids we are after it would be really nice for the staff to get at least 1 of these talented kids from the state. It's been just as hard trying to pluck kids from the UNC/Duke/Kentucky area and just as frustrating when they decide to stay close to home. At least with Kansas and Texas, kids are in somewhat of a geographical region where family can see games and in a market where they will be on TV all the time. So I do wonder why so many in the past have not come to KU but I'm sure it can all be changed with 1 signing.
Absolutely agree, we need a guard for Korea before hand with only 3 guys able to go from the 5 we have. Seems though that Mack & Vick are guys with loads of potential that could get playing time as a freshman. I'm all for getting a guard as we will have questions surrounding Svi & Selden going to the draft plus losing at the min 3 frontcourt guys. So getting a guy in the system now that can be an impact going forward is a must.
Ku staff has visited Ferguson 3 times and he came to KU in January. The team that worries me for Ferguson is Alabama with Avery Johnson as the coach. Johnson is going to get kids with his NBA ties. They seem to have the recent action on him, but I'd say if we are able to get him to visit for Late Night that our chances will be as good as any. Not sure what kind of timeline the kid has for deciding.
what i find interesting about KU recruiting Mack & now Vick is the staff must not be satisfied with just Svi & Greene at the wing. Especially since Greene will be returning from injury. I'm all for getting another wing but I'm interested in the reasoning.
KU should have the experience & added talent needed to negate advantages certain teams have had on KU the last 2 years. Both of KU's loses last year to Iowa St. were because KU beat itself. We will matchup with them next year spot for spot with Diallo & Bragg in the rotation.
Smart if he tries to run his havoc, we've already gotten that from West Virginia so it won't be new to us seeing that style of play. Will be interesting to see how much he incorporates his style with a squad that has maybe 2 to 3 ideal players for what he wants to do. Year 2 and on will tell us what he can do in the Big 12. His comments towards KU in his acceptance speech should set Texas up as a renewed rival year and year out. I know Self will be gunning for him.
Oklahoma has 1 more good year before it goes back to rebuilding.
I believe KU losing was one of EPSN guys Medcalf's bold prediction for 2016 as well that's already made it to circulation. Goodman at least smartened up for now saying he won't pick against KU again but he's got plenty of time to become an idiot KU hater.
The ESPN poll just baffles me. Yes Iowa St. is going to be a good team again with 6 key contributors back but 2 big loses in Hogue & Jones. Their replacements 6'3 Cooke & December transfer Burton 6'4, certainly not as big as Hogue & Jones played at 6'6. I'm sure they will sign a transfer big man or somebody late (hopefully not Tyler Harris). What I don't understand is how some are viewing them as a better team when KU returns just as much or more. And then add the fact that we added 2 Top 20 kids to our biggest weakness area. Our experience matches them as well.
Interesting, creating his own shot is something he hasn't really shown yet. But do we really need him to? The 2 point jump shot is statistically the worst shot in basketball. He excels at 3's and can hit the jumper when he gets the chance. I wouldn't want to sacrifice his marksmanship from 3 for him to create contested jumpers. I don't think Greene is going to show a transformed driving game in College, at least. Maybe at the next level if he's good enough to get there. I could be wrong but he seems more likely to become a better player by focusing on his defense, BBIQ, and other area's than becoming a create your own shot kind of guy. A guy like him can be a Kyle Korver in the league but he must learn to become a better all around player first. I think his chance of sticking in the league is obviously his shooting from 3 and everything else after that.
I think Self's system will limit his create your own shot mentality just like it limits everyone else's personal creativity. If its not in the flow of the game you get yanked whether it goes in or not. Greene could be one of those RJ Hunter type's where you have to give him the freedom to miss a bunch to gain the overall impact of him. That's the player that immediately I see Greene's game in with more polish..
I agree but he signed with Smart before, got out and the one school he was considering before KU and Georgia got involved was Texas. I wonder if he will stay loyal to Smart or break his heart and play for his rival. I don't have a good feeling that he would do that but I'll never be able to predict 18 year old kids minds either.
UK will have a strong 16 class, a lot of top prospects in their area.
KU has a lot of targets as well but guys like Bolden, Ferguson, Fox, Herard, and others are guys that we've been in on for some time. I know Self is after the big fish as well but I don't view him as having much of a chance with them. Josh Jackson keeps getting thrown around as a KU lean but zero info to back that up. He's more likely to skip College than end up here...
In this case I think its KU saying that we need this guy and not so much the other way around. It's not like we were involved the first time around with him so the mutual interest is coming from Self's choice to make him a priority. Remember he's the backup plan to the back up, back up back up plan.
I agree there's basically what 3 to 4 guys who get some information like Meyer and such and then everyone follows suit after the fact of Meyer making a pick. But I wouldn't say that its useless or means nothing because usually it gives you an idea where kids may end up.
Brown said very little so the speculation he was going here or there was never factual information. But the limited info that was out there didn't point to KU at any point and nobody had him going to us even though we made his top 5.
The Cal pick is shocking to me because I only thought he was interested if Rabb & Swanigan both went there. Swanigan was always a Mich St lean from the beginning so I just thought it was odd that that they won out. I don't view Cal as a team to fear and I do think he will go pro after 1 year no matter how much he says he wants to stay and develop. Kids with his talent don't pass up on the money.
Mack's mom said something about KU pushing the hardest saying "they really need him". If the crystal ball means anything we are really behind Texas (smart angle) and Georgia who he reportedly visited.
If Self's interest is that much he must really know something about our perimeter that we don't.
I think we might all be underselling Greene's stock as a player. He has his weaknesses we all know what they are and he's had trouble with his maturity. But he is a big time shooter and when he was making shots on the regular KU fans weren't the only one's noticing. Announcer's were calling his the best shooter in the country, that's a lofty praise for a kid who was coming off the bench.
He had almost as many double digit scoring games as Wayne Selden had in half the minutes per game. And Wayne is a guy many (myself included) think will take a big step up this year. An underrated skill of his was he could come in the game and hit shots right off the bench. Not many can be good at that without game flow. He's almost automatic at the FT line, with starters minutes its conceivable that he gets a lot more attempts especially late in games.
Obviously the biggest issue is he'll miss the entire summer to improve but if this surgery truly benefits him I'm optimistic he will still help this team. Maybe his role again is 15 minutes a game and let Svi start because his all around game may be better for the team.
If Greene was a better defender, I think he would fit the mold of our system better. We've had guys in the past who's only weapon was the 3 ball but they could defend the way Self wanted them too so they were so valuable to the system. His Basketball IQ still needs work and that can come with maturity. Self has really had to get on him like he did Tyshawn Taylor and others.
Will the surgery help? I'm sure it will have an effect but the surgery also stops any progress he can make towards his game in the off-season. I don't think Greene will take a red-shirt because we do need his shooting. I admire that he didn't transfer out after lots of speculation from fans he might, and this injury really dampers what could have or could be the light-bulb season for him.
After Greene's NBA Jam month or so of shooting the 3 ended, teams started playing him tighter from the perimeter. They also knew that this was the worst 2pt shooting team in the Self era so they could afford to play Greene tight because of our horrible shooting inside the arc. I doubt this team can replicate that woeful shooting so if Greene spaces the floor with defenses guarding him closely then we could benefit from him being on the floor. Especially if our other guards (Selden & Graham) take a step up.
still doesn't make cal a good team
I fight back and forth between that situation of Graham starting. It presents a lot of advantages having 2 PG's on the floor. The only thing I wonder about is how sub's would be utilized. I can't say I would trust our other 3 guards to be left in the position to run the offense. Do you sub Mason first or Graham and play 1 during sub rotations then bring the other out and play the traditional PG SG combo. I think we will see plenty of the 2 guard offense. I'm sure matchups might favor that happening a lot. I do think Selden will step up this year and make it easier to trust the traditional lineup.
I think Bragg will see a lot of time because he can score the basketball. Other than Perry that has been the biggest issue with the leftover bigs we have. Bragg can shoot the 3 as well as any guard we got. He is a gifted offensive player. I do worry that defensively he will be behind because effort might be something Self will have to push from him. He's a wildcard until we see him in the flow of the offense. We should see a bunch of what he might able to do this summer. He's certainly as talented a big as we've brought in, the hype just isn't there with him. That's great, we might get 2 maybe 3 really good years from him that way.
I think if Self wants to win and I'm sure he doesn't want to repeat the last 2 years, you ride Diallo from the start because defensively he's going to change everything for this team. We got beat up inside a lot of games and when he's in the game he's going to have that Withey type of impact. We all thought Cliff would play bigger than 6'8, well Diallo definitely plays bigger than 6'9. I certainly don't fault anyone who looks back at prior experience with Self and his bigs but this guy is really a talented player that is better off just playing from the start.
I think Traylor will play, I just don't think he deserves 20 minutes or to start. It just wasn't effective enough over the season or consistent enough. 2 years ago when he was with his bash brother Black it worked out so much better because they both brought energy, toughness off the bench. That's the role Traylor needs to be relegated back to. Mari has great energy but over the course of playing a lot of minutes he looked tired, worn out, and noticeably injured sometimes. I trust him in the system and he was a good passer in the zone for lobs and such. But he was a poor screener, shooter, etc and always has been. I know Self likes to value his experienced players but when he obviously recruits over him its tough to see him not being out back to role player.
I just don't think Self signed 2 McDonald's All-American's at his position to sit them. Especially with them both getting practices in May/June and games in July (except Diallo) is going to greatly benefit them learning the system. Instead of learning Self's plays in October, they get to learn in June. From all accounts it sounds like Diallo learns and applies things at a fast rate like Embiid did. Certainly gives the chance to "get It' quicker than bigs in the past but we won't know until we see it.
what's hard to understand that Brown cut us? We were never seriously in it with him, twitter just made us believe we were after Diallo signed. Would have loved to see how Jaylen would have fit in our system but oh well.
The one concern I have about the SF spot being left to Svi & Greene is rebounding. Neither showed much in that department. Oubre, Wiggins, Releford, to name the recent one's were very Athletic & gifted rebounders for their position. Brown would have been that type of player again for us and that was one of the big reasons I was hoping we could land him.
I think the Diallo signing pushes Traylor to the 4th spot vying with Lucas. Whatever opinion we have of Traylor we know one thing he is undersized to play any of our front-court positions. I just can't see Self playing him 15-20 minutes again while being limited by size & limited offense. Traylor couldn't out-rebound Frank Mason. Let that one sink in for a second. Self was very upset with his rebounding. Diallo & Bragg will rebound the ball better. I think using Traylor a few minutes here and few minutes there will directly benefit him from showing his weaknesses over a long stretch of time.
Diallo will get a jump start on the adjustment period starting soon with the practices and exhibition games for Korea. Same with Bragg, they will get accustomed to Self's practices earlier than any bigs in the Self Era. That does bode well for them going into the fall. Cliff didn't bring effort all the time, something Diallo will not have a problem doing.
As far as Greene, missing the summer is the biggest issue and because of that Svi will get a lot of reps that he won't.
Who do like to start?
I wouldn't put much faith in getting anyone else. Brown has said nothing, Mack is down to Texas, KU & Georgia. Greek kid is a pipe-dream. Regardless the only possible way a shakeup would happen for me is if Brown signed. Here goes..
PG- Mason
SG- Selden
SF- Svi
PF- Ellis
C- Diallo
First off the bench
PG- Graham
Role Players
SF- Greene
PF- Bragg
C- Lucas
Reserves
Traylor
Mickelson
I think Svi wins the SF battle because of his defense & improved game now til fall. Summer games would have been ideal but what can you do. Greene is going to be behind unless he gets cleared in August.
You start Diallo from day 1 because he's night and day an upgrade to Lucas. Lucas can keep developing with backup minutes and not be relied upon like the end of last year. Yes a freshman is our best hope at the 5.
Graham 1st player off the bench, allows you to bring in a 2nd ball-handler if he doesn't sub Mason. If you start both you would have no PG sub for either.
Anybody else differ?
Not that it was any surprise but it was just announced via twitter that KU's own Andrew Wiggins will be named Rookie of the Year.
Congrats Andrew, you were at times amazing this year for your crappy Minnesota. With a great off-season he has a chance to be an All-Star next year, he was that good at times.
Brown said he liked KU & UK the most in the fall.
UNC is his dream school and made his final 5. They lost their SF to the draft so he could definitely go there. They are a top 10 team without, but with him could be the favorites??
Michigan as noted has the family ties. Doubt that many people that picked him in the crystal ball could be that wrong.
They opened a scholy for him, but with Irvin & Levert there its hard to see him looking at them and seeing a clear PT advantage.
Cal is the only team I think has no shot.
I assume they will play in the Exhibition games. Can't believe that they would be held back from those as they are not apart of the WUG.
Lucas has the chance to solidify a spot in the rotation this summer. I see him starting in Korea, unless Self roles with Bragg.
I had to check to make sure I wasn't losing it but are we talking about the same Mari that scored 3.8pts per game in his last 5?? Yeah he had 2 good games in March and before that a terrible stretch. We will never be able to rely on him for offense. Not having Diallo in Korea will remind us one last time why there was such great urgency to get Diallo and push Traylor to 5th big.
Comparing the 2 its easy to say that Brown is the better play now and would probably impact the game more as a freshman.
Brown:
Freak Athlete, gets to the lane at will, College ready body, good ball handling skills, and has shown defensive ability.
Needs to work on FT's, Outside Shooting, decision making.
Mack:
Good Athlete, Great Shooter from the perimeter, untapped potential both physically and athletically.
Needs to work on lateral quickness, ball handling, driving ability.
Brown is College ready now, he's got a great driving game reminiscent of Wiggins with maybe a little more power. Wiggins struggled at KU with contact but Brown welcomes contact. His outside shot is streaky but can definitely make them in rhythm.
Mack reminds me a lot of Brannen Greene as a freshman. Known as a lights out shooter with great size, they are not exceptional athlete's nor great defenders. That's where the potential for Mack comes in a few years after he's had weight training and individual work would probably make him a star by Junior season. He was a great Coup for VCU when Smart did get him and you know Smart doesn't go after you unless you have shown some defensive ability so clearly he saw something in Mack.
Mack offers the safe route with room for great development, Brown offers the 9 month pit stop with the ability to impact the game immediately.
Your right he isn't the 2nd coming of T-Rob, can't say anyone will ever be like he was. Diallo is a unique talent that is really going to change the dynamics of our frontcourt.
I thought Cliff was going to be a monster last year but that clearly didn't happen for us. It ended ugly but I'm not so sure it ever was a honeymoon to begin with. Diallo is more athletic, works & gives more effort, and runs the court better than he will ever.
I'm assuming Diallo will be able to play in the exhibition games and surely will practice leading up to the games that will help him even more. Same with Bragg, they are going to get a lot of experience before the fall and that is a huge benefit.
Awesome post, feel the same way I celebrated maybe a little too much off 1 High School kids announcement. Who would have thought that things like this can excite you so much.
I wonder if we will over-hype him because of the fact that he was such a need to the team. I don't think he will disappoint though.
I agree that I haven't seen a HS kid that plays as hard as he does. The game he had against Thon Maker I think it was in the fall was the game I was convinced we needed him at all costs. At that time Maker was the most hyped player around. Diallo outplayed him, out-hustled him and did all the things that he will do here at KU.
Brown is likely gone to Michigan as the family connection looks legit.
Mack would be great depth for any situation and a body to throw into Korea as we will be lacking them. Probably the only safe recruit that won't scare our 2 off.
one of the best parts of this huge signing is the impact it has on the traylor Lucas mickelson playing time. someone will be the 4th big and 2 will be regulated to the bench or spot minutes.
Athleticism for a big is as good as it gets. He's not yet your Iso post back to the basket but if he couldn't score he wouldn't have been the mvp of 2 all-star games. He showed he plays harder than every kid coming into college.
Too bad he can't hoop it in Korea with us..
ESPN underselling his ability. Offensively he will find a way to help, his effort to the ball is like a magnet
Joel Embiid with the assist!!
Official stat line for Philadelphia this year.
Opts, Orebs, 0blks, 1 Ast.
🐦 View Tweet[link text]
All over twitter, he announced to ESPN