as his biggest supporter on this site, I'm moving on. If he was coming to KU he would have already done so. All the pressure on him to stay home. And St Johns will visit a million more times to drive that home.
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
Agreed, Lucas just wasn't strong enough in the lower body to get the pass and go up with it strong for a dunk. He really labored with that and I'm sure Hudy will be working all summer with him on that.
Ellis is just too small unless he can effectively seal his man. I think he'd be better with another athletic big to off-set his lack of height.
The other issue with throwing that pass is having good passers. That was another area of concern. Mari is a good lob passer but his touch throwing into the bigs wasn't that great. Ellis is the best post passer we have but we need him to score.
I'd put his odds of going to college at less than 1% if he doesn't graduate by August and join a team then.
Should we hold a scholarship open if he does graduate in August? I'd say no, we shouldn't be worried about adding someone that late in the process.
I don't see any benefit for him joining a team in December as he'd be so far behind in any team system. It's unlike when a transfer joins mid-way because they have been practicing with that team.
His handler would lose all his power if he goes to College, lots of reports about how this Ed Smith has had a role in both Thon and his younger brother Matur.
I think he stays where he is for the year enjoying the year with his brother before going pro next year.
Some great points being made on our offense and what can be done to improve/create unpredictability within the sets.
One thing I wanted to mention about the H/L that has grinded my gears for years was the overhead lob pass from the high post, or a from wing side throwing to an angle into the post when a defender fronts. Especially last year when we didn't have the personnel to throw in to, that pass was as good as a turnover. It's great if you can successfully throw it in and get the easy basket but we saw how ineffective all our bigs were at sealing, catching, and finishing those type plays. And we still tried to throw it in no matter who was in there. I think in the Wichita game it was good for 3-4 turnovers alone because of the way Wichita packed the lane.
Kim K lookalike.
I would have said Graham if he was guaranteed to start. He's going to get around 20 minutes max a game if he's coming off the bench. I still believe he will improve a ton and its likely to not show up in his stats increasing. Collins was given the keys after the freshman year and got a ton more minutes to show how much he improved. Mason was given the same keys. Graham is still got Mason in his way.
I honestly kind of wish Self would start Mason & Graham and slide Selden to the 3 where we don't really lose anything. We could worry about size at positions but its a huge advantage having 2 guys who have great handles and ability to get past defenders.
Funny that Selden's 2 biggest critics are on board for him improving the most. I think it makes the most sense that we know that if Wayne becomes consistent offensively that this team will be even better. 14pts sounds like a lot but he could become that type of player.
As far as the wing situation here is where I see it. If Ingram does sign then you are right that someone looks elsewhere. I think Self checking out Ty Outlaw the JC says that Ingram is staying in-state though. I wouldn't mind bringing another player on board like Outlaw who really isn't a threat to beat out Svi or Greene. Ingram would intimidate them though so I think the difference in getting another wing is how good is he? I think Self wants another wing to bring with him to Korea and for the chance that Greene's injury doesn't heal well or injuries occur during the year. You don't get anything for saving scholarships so I'd rather see Self fill the roster just in case something happens.
Ok Folks, I've talked enough about Diallo and Ingram for a lifetime. I have nothing further to say about them until they decide. Let's talk about something that actually involves our players.
I've been throwing around the idea of this thread for a while but now that we are all grasping for dear life for a Diallo or Ingram commitment I figured we could at least kill the time by talking about who's going to be the most improved Jayhawk this year???
I'll start by saying I think the popular votes are Svi & Graham. Both are expected to make that Fr. to So. leap and strengthen an already deep backcourt KU will have. I will not argue against anyone that believes that one or the other or both will be the most improved Jayhawk this year.
I'll start with my vote which may be different from others. I think the most improved Jayhawk will be Wayne Selden. I fought back and forth between Wayne and Perry. I'm giving Wayne a full chance to redeem his reputation with me this year. Never in my life as a KU fan has a player baffled me more. The popular thought would be to write him off and go with someone else but I truly believe that if Wayne takes the steps this summer then he will put himself back in the good graces of the NBA & help KU get far in the tournament.
What's my thinking on Selden. He's going to start, he's in his 3rd year here which is an eternity with the OAD circus and has a chance to get a full healthy off-season of individual work in. The reason I didn't pick Svi or Graham is because I'm not sure how many minutes they will get to show off an improved game. They both are due for big minutes probably in the 15-25 range but if they are stuck behind Mason or Greene that can effect the impact they will have. Will Svi jump Greene because of the injury? Will Graham improve so much that Self has to role with 2 PG's and slide Selden to the 3. Self has lots of options again this year.
I think with the hopeful addition of at least 1 player (Diallo) that gives us the anchor inside. Selden needs to improve his scoring get up into the 12pts a game area. If he can do that and show enough consistent scoring games (Greene had almost as many Double Digit scoring games off the bench) then this team has a chance to be special. We need 1 more consistent scorer with Mason & Ellis for the team to take the next level up.
What's everyone's thoughts, I'm very curious what people think who will step up this coming year.
Simmons the #1 recruit is driving it. He was drawn to LSU by an assistant who had a connection with him.
Blakeney followed which was the first report of ShoeCo having influence this year.
Sampson is hometown kid.
These top recruits have had more than enough time and visits to know where they want to, or have to go. What are they waiting on? I always hear such and such school is making a late push and is closing in on such recruit. Really? What kind of pushing are they doing that they could change a kids mind in such a short time?
Very good point. In the case of Diallo, a coaching change and 2 assistants directly involved with him jumped to the home team so in his case probably a lot has changed. But if he's truly hasn't made his mind up then this recruiting has become an uncontrollable wack job.
Exactly and Mickelson had a full year to learn the system and earn minutes and he could only get them after all else had failed. I was intrigued by Hunter's defensive ability but anyone who watched him knew his feel for the game just lacked. I'm not comfortable that the same roster will produce better results. Adding players that exceed our current players talent is the only way to go at this point and those are becoming harder to find.
If we do not land Diallo then Self screwed up royally not locking Tyler Davis in the summer as you pointed out before. I thought Davis was a lock to KU, then we apparently didn't give him the commitment he wanted. Shame on Self if Diallo goes elsewhere, I'll forever hold that one against him.
As a fan, this Spring Recruiting dependency is like pulling your hair out. It will be a recruiting failure of epic proportion if we don't get at least Diallo out of this deal. To think that we went the whole summer/fall/winter/ to spring and get only Bragg seems ridiculous. I couldn't have pictured this in the fall that we'd be in late April praying for someone to join the fold. We have a possible championship team, how is that not appealing. We have a Center position open that will be filled by backups if Diallo doesn't come here.
You are correct on the fear of not getting anyone and then Self is scrambling, not getting the players he should have prioritized before.
We have planted plenty of seeds for 2016 but I have read Self is going after kids with again strong ties to other top schools. I don't see any point in recruiting, Giles, Jackson, Smith, Monk. They already are being full court pressed by other schools.
If I was Self I would be locking down De'Aaron Fox, Terrance Ferguson, & Schnider Herard. Markelle Fultz is a kid that blew up and we offered and he's going to visit. Yakwe played with Diallo and is extremely athletic SF/PF type. The scholarships will be available with 3 Senior's..
I saw all the chatter suggests Duke as well. It is what it is if that's the case. And it makes sense because of the locality and Duke needing anyone to fill the roster.
They signed PF Maurice yesterday.
And because of that Eric Cobb reopened his recruiting. He might have started for them.
Looks like Texas Tech could jump them next year.
Ingram's a guard. I believe he played PG for his team this year. He translates into the league as a big 2 or SF.
Ingram was all UNC before the scandal hit. His mentors are Stackhouse & Bullock, both former Heels. They could still land him if Tokoto does sign an Agent, the 3 spot in his home state and dream school just became available. Duke has done what they can to keep him as well with a depleted roster.
If the ShoeCo has any influence then he's KU bound. Being that he was an Adidas kid and didn't play in the Jordan Brand game because of that. Duke & UNC are obviously Nike..
We will know our fate Sunday, but if we got dragged into the last hour in this saga just to lose to an in-state school he should eliminate us before hand.
Duke getting a 2nd visit in less than a week sticks out to me as the likely winner for him. Just seems odd that they would get another visit unless the 1st one didn't happen in the first place.
If Ingram stays in state, great for him his recruitment dragged on for nothing then, at least in terms of dragging KU along for the ride until the end. His last 3 visits are all with in-state programs so if his mind isn't already set on KU he's not coming.
It just further shows how many obstacles KU has to fight against with out of state prospects. We are the only Elite school in the nation without a plethora of nearby talent to choose from.
We are in the same boat for Diallo, and a home school that has done everything possible from a coaching change, to cornering him with 2 of his lead recruiters from other programs. We all certainly wish that at least Diallo will pledge to be a Jayhawk because of the sheer effort that has been put into his recruitment the past 2 years. A fan base gets more weary each passing day that we won't get anyone.. Some good news needs to start coming our way.
I have no issue with the game, just timing I find it hard to see why we couldn't have fit this at a different time in the non con but that's my thinking of the matter.
A good chunk of our players remember losing at home to them and I'm sure bill will use that as motivation but we will be underdogs in that gym.
Just saw Duke has another in-home visit with Ingram after already meeting with him this weekend. Is that writing on the wall or what?? Where's Self's 2nd in-home..
Not trying to assume anything but it does say something. Plus UCLA out with no schedule visited.
We play Michigan St next year and in Maui so our RPI will not be hurting. Plus the Big 12 will be just as tough so RPI is really not a question again.
The last 2 years schedule's were overkill and look where it got us..
I wouldn't have an issue if the game had better timing.
What's the point of traveling across the country right before kids fly around to their home's anyway. We should be playing some cup-cake or a game in Allen where the odds are good we go out to break with a W.
The way the Big 12 is set up now, we play 9 Super Bowl games, no reason to keep adding to it.
I thought we would learn from last years before X-Mas debacle when we traveled to play Temple. That worked so well for this team.
Rinse & Repeat a year later
KU will travel to San Diego St. on 12/22/2015 to play in their home gym just before the break.
I suppose we continue to think scheduling games like this will be a great benefit except when they are not. Great for RPI, stupid for timing.
I understand the game was already set for this year as part of the deal for them coming to KU 2 years ago. But what about finding a better time when kids minds won't be on returning home.They have a menacing home court advantage of late and will be an extremely difficult game.
Whatever happened to "softening" the schedule Bill???
Agreed, he was overmatched in the World Game. Those games can also be all about guards. He did have 10 rebs & a couple blocks so it showed that he knows how to impact the game more in those area's than offense right now. I doubt he goes to College at this point and that works out well for his handler who'd have a diminished role if he went into college. He would have been great to get in the perfect world because his talent would be easier to teach then what we have but it's a longshot he makes it to College
Did Embiid come into KU with all those posts moves he had in his one year?
I just don't remember him having those before he got here. He was one of the best Bigs we've ever had there is no questioning that. I could be wrong but I could have sworn he was supposed to be a multi year development talent that just blew up with coaching and PT.
I agree Diallo is nowhere the player Embiid turned out to be but if all it takes is coaching to accelerate his learning curve because of his high level of effort then I'm optimistic we can get more than serviceable play from him next to Perry.
Question:
Do you trust that the KU staff could help Diallo develop a go-to move B2B.
Or would you rather deal with Lucas, Traylor, Mickelson B2B non existent game.
All great responses. This just better work out for us then, we better start praying to the KU basketball gods.
Maker isn't going to graduate until until August at the earliest and then there's still a big chance he stays with his brother until December. And then there's still a good chance he just works out until the NBA draft. With all those varaibles with him its likely we should stay away and just hope we land Diallo.
I didn't see your response here before I posted in the other thread about Diallo.
He is the only guy left who can start from Day 1. It's rare to give a Freshman praise for hard work and that's probably one of the things that gets Self so giddy about him. His hard work could really push Ellis & Lucas & Bragg to be better players. We cannot afford to lose him if we want to have a serious chance of the Final 4. Hence why Self met with him right after the game last night, smart because St. Johns has their visit today.
Looked like a nice post move to me?
I understand what we want or what we need is a post who can score when he gets the ball down low. The thing about Diallo is he can score and he's done it very easily in these all-star games. I think if he couldn't score he wouldn't have been the MVP in 2 of the 3 games he's played in recently.
His effort alone says that Self and Staff can teach him a few post moves this summer. He just started playing basketball 4 years ago and look at where he is already. He might get 10 pts a game in College just on put-backs, hustle, and Lobs. He also has a good FT motion so he shouldn't be a liability when he gets fouled. He's not polished I know that and everyone can see it. I don't think Embiid was farther along offensively at this point either but KU certainly accelerated the learning curve. He might have just been a once in a lifetime type big that picked things up quickly but you have to think Diallo could do the same if taught.
because its a nike event. They did mention him with KU a few times but a few times they also failed to mention them. The announcers know as much as us which is nothing.
I suppose we misjudged his interest in the other schools. I would have thought that he might take all his visits first and see where other domino's might fall. Illinois certainly had the PT available. Can't say that they would offer him the path to the NBA that KU could have.
Landing Diallo becomes all the more important now.. Did you see the Jordan game? He was an absolute beast out there. Someone kick me and tell me he's not the best big besides Simmons in this class. Effort is off the charts.
"Check Diallo plays like he's a Great White Shark and there's nothing but blood in the water. Beyond relentless. Doesn't know how to stop."
dont we want that?
Absolutely agree about finding a wing who will stay more than a year. We have Greene who's made it to his Jr. year and he was highly ranked and thought of. Who knows maybe he will be completely different after this surgery heals. Svi has the size but I view his skill-set as more of a SG than anything.
Mack the former VCU signee is a kid with tremendous upside. His film looks pretty good, long, not an explosive athlete but good enough and can shoot. Maybe the closest thing to a developmental wing with upside to play as a freshman.
At KU you seem to have to be undersized for a NBA position to get past your freshman year. Mason if he was 6'2 probably would have tested the waters. Probably would be thought of as a pro as a Junior but the reality is he's small for the league and KU benefits from that. Same with Ellis, skill level says he can play in the league but he's a tweener position wise. He comes back and has a chance to be an all-time great, top 10 scorer in history, All Big 12, All-American. Great for KU again.
At least we don't have to listen to his mother. She just sounds annoying by the amount of involvement she has in his every move. Twitter me this, Twitter me that comments. We could have benefited from his basketball skills, but not everything else or his own comments on College.
He's a great talent and I bet he moves up some spots in the final rankings that ESPN or Rivals will do.
He loved his visit, he's good friends with Bragg and from all accounts Carlton did a good job telling him to come on as well.
You are right about us making perimeter shooters a black hole of some sorts. We all saw what happened in the last month of the season how a top 10 3pt shooting team just fell off the face of the earth. The H/L system will do that because it's just not run to showcase an above average reliance on 3 pointers.
What I don't know about Ingram is will he make the team that much better if in fact he only spends 1 year in school. Is he a good passer? Can he defend and hold his own? Can he fit in the guys already here and learn the system fast enough..
He has more Kevin Durant in him than anything. That's what he reminds me of. He'll be asked to put on enough weight and muscle to sustain his body type. Before these All-Star games came around I think people were sleeping on him a whole lot and he wasn't generally thought of as a OAD because his body really needs work. But he's improved a ton since the grassroots season last summer and is now on the NBA radar as a guy with great potential that already has a polished offensive game.
Not sure what kind of defender he's going to be off the bat and that's something that Self values a ton. Brown offers more immediate defensive prowess but Ingram shoots it better and can be plugged into the 4 if needed on height alone.
Duke could land him but they also have Allen & Kennard as well as Jones. I think all 3 are interchangeable at the SG/SF position. They clearly need a PG or 2 at least and that's why they are now after the Jamal Murray and Ennis kid from Nova.
What I thought was interesting about Zim going to UNLV is that I don't think he made them any better. They had a plethora of bigs to begin with. Wood is still 50/50 on going but if I'm him and I have a chance at somewhere in the 1st round you take it now that a player of similar size has signed. If he does leave then they traded a potential Mountain West player of the year for a 1 year stop and go OAD. Can't say that's an upgrade.
Zim's going to play, you could bet Dave Rice's salary that he'll get 25-30 minutes a game easy regardless of who's there. They signed 2 highly rated bigs last year, Carter from Oregon transferred in and sat out and they got Jones who's a high flyer signed with Zim. What that team clearly needs is a backcourt after their pg graduated and Vaughn left for the pro's..
I doubt if Ingram signs he'd be a 2 guard. He's got 5 inches on Selden. Ingram might not even be done growing and we certainly know he will have to put on a significant amount of muscle and some weight to help balance out his size.
I agree we need the SF position to have an Athletic player and right now we don't have one we've been accustomed to lately. Greene is out at least 4 months and will miss the most important off-season of his career. We all think the world of Svi but Self must be not convinced those 2 are the answers.
What's interesting to me is that if Self was happy with his guard rotation especially the SF position then he wouldn't be recruiting players. He's on Paschall (has to sit), Ingram, Brown, and now Ty Outlaw a Juco scoring machine. Whether we get any is another question but he's clearly recruiting like we have an immediate Starting position open.
Can't count out NC State now that Lacey bolted for the pro's. They clearly have a need for a guard/SF type now.
We are visiting Diallo this weekend as well. I expect he'll make his decision by end of next week..
Article makes it sound very appealing for KU with Ingram. I've thought that if he did go out of state it would be KU. The in-home visit is encouraging sign but we all know that we are fighting against 2 in-state schools..
I'm surprised he didn't want to win games. They are still a few quality guards short.
And I would assume that their best player (Wood) might leave now that a 5 star player is coming that plays same position. He was already on the fence about declaring.
I am surprised of that myself but Texas has a lot of returning guys if nobody decides to leave from the current team. The 2 guys Texas has signed are Top 50 guards so I can see why they would want to stay.
I think if anyone follows Smart it will be Tevin Mack who was a huge score for Smart over UConn. I think Mack picked VCU solely to play under Smart but now that he bolted now he's going to get a lot of attention like (KU) is showing. Mack would be great depth on the wing, can shoot and can play the 2/3.
Williams was a huge get over UNC, not sure what he's going to do or the level of interest in KU he might have. He's a shooter but is a pg in College, not a position we have a need for unless Self is planning to run both Graham & Mason together in the starting lineup. Those 2 together seemed to work best so I wonder if Self needs a 3rd small guard to spell them.
I think Bragg is a legit 6'9 and he has very long arms. We are spoiled to have him. Just hope we get another big to complement him.
Interesting that Paschall is looking at KU. Maybe we will get an Offical Visit from him. His 15pts a game as a Freshman look pretty good. If you dig deeper though you do see he wasn't a great shooter and was on a horrible team. He would be the candidate for sitting out the upcoming year. Honestly would rather find a big who can sit out.
I see we have thrown our hats into 2 former VCU signee's Tevin Mack & Kenny Williams. Mack could definitely help from Day 1 especially if Greene is slow to recover. Some more Wing Depth wouldn't hurt.
This Greek guy we offered a while back didn't we? If we strike out on the others I'm assuming we might get involved.
The open scholarships can be a double edged sword.
On one hand open spots can mean that players looking to go to KU may not have a huge position battle and immediate PT is there.
On the other hand as soon as fill your roster with depth, now you have 2-4 players or more unhappy with their role on the team. Nobody wants to Red-Shirt anymore unless an injury or academics force it. Landon Lucas is a rarity now. You will see less red-shirts and more transfers which we are seeing.
As far as 2015 It doesn't sound like KU will get 3 players to fill the roster. I could be wrong but at the moment it looks like the max we will sign is 2 more. If it was up to me I'd sign a transfer who can sit and be eligible in 16-17 for that last spot. We will have plenty of open spots, could be as many as 6-7. We could still have a bunch of upperclassmen left after next year but we clearly will be relying hard on a good 2016 class to supplement the roster. Self should maximize 15 to set up future years.
Duke & KU were 2 of the top 10 youngest teams in the country. Young isn't an excuse. One wins the Championship, one goes home early.
Yes their leading scorer Williams had a huge restriction list. I think he'll end up at Michigan St where he wants to go. Izzo recruited him in HS. Crazy the restrictions he had, makes you wonder how bitter departments are handing these waivers out.
I think Uthoff lost only a year of eligibility in the end since he had already red-shirted and sat one to begin with. His situation was really weird and I think Wisconsin basically gave him a free pass after it made ESPN and Bo had to be interviewed about it. But my impression was they lost 2 years.
The NCAA approves waivers but the school must appeal for one when the kid signs. And they were widely inconsistent (Shocking) in awarding them. A lot would apply for the waiver to be closer to home or a sick family member but some were trying to take advantage of the instant ability to play instead of sitting. The NCAA finally caught wind of that and put a end to it.
I honestly don't agree that kids should have to sit for anything but I understand it prevents flat out free agency so the year is a deterrent to that. It also gives kids the chance to academically get things in order when they transfer as I'm sure schools have different requirements for accepting credits.
One last thing, Schools do have the right to restrict kids from where they want to go with waivers unless the player makes it a media circus that eventually gets overturned. Case in point was Jared Uthoff who red-shirted at Wisconsin, he wanted out, Bo Ryan gave him basically a no transfer list to anyone until the media got hold of it. He actually ended up at Iowa in the same conference which is very rare to happen. This was after Wisconsin and Bo finally gave into the media pressure of the situation.
Hamilton of UCLA had to sit a year and lose a year of eligibility because Tim Floyd was convinced them and USC were poaching him to stay out west. He eventually transfered anyway but lost his Freshman year basically they wouldn't release his letter of intent.
Appalachian St forced DG to go to prep school because they were so vigilant about not releasing him. Seemed to work out for us in the end.
Who knows what would have happened with Frank had Towson not released him..
Thomas played 3 years at Houston then his coach left. He applied for a waiver and won. Those were the old rules.
The new rules in place for this year don't allow such occurences.
DG's case was the school playing hard ball because they suspected Gotfried of NC State was contacting him and it got ugly so they wouldn't release him because he had a good Sr. season. It forced him into prep school before they finally gave up and released him.
I believe those 5 schools come directly from him as I believe he's already set up visits. Maybe we can get involved but silently all that is speculation.