@KUinLA I think he nails the problem whether his prescription is right or not I don't know.
I hope the press helps push the adaptation needed.
Bwag
4841 posts
@drgnslayr is it loss of asst coaches who had standing with Self to sway some adaptation. Or, is it the recruiting failures or, OAD turnover that has just ascerbates the situation on the inside out game?
@ajvan mayb the press will drive the point home. Just need a few recruits bringing it up in in home visits and maybe, just maybe, we'll see some change.
@JRyman but will Coach learn from this?
@KansasComet said:
@Bwag said:
@KansasComet Hunter ranked player...Lucas/Traylor not so much.
Hunter Mickleson is not on any Wooden Watch list, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team list. He is not one of the leaders on this team. I'm not saying he can't play.
HS ranking & Stats for 2 games:
Hunter Rivals 100 (17 at position) 4 stars 8MPG, 1.5 BPG, 4 RBG, 1 PPg and 0 TO's
Traylor Rivals 141 (27 at position) 3 stars 19.5 MBG, 0 BPG, 7 RBG, 7 PPG, and 0 TO's
Lucas Rivals NR 3 stars 11 MPG, 0 BPG, 5 RBG, 5 PPG and 1.5 TO's
Hunter significant shot blocking potential, nice offensive touch if inconsistent over inconsistent PT (short of the WUG). Brings energy and gets hands on lots of balls when he doesn't get RB.
@jaybate-1.0 medical marijuana? No way Self does this. He'd cut both his feet off first. Might as well put all eggs in Diallo becoming eligible as think Self would do this.
Why not Hunter/Lucas at 5 & Bragg/Traylor at 4? Maybe I'm showing my ignorance.
This is THE question:
Why would he play inferior players for a season, if they really were inferior?
Indeed. Is he a practice coach? Why the quick hook for some and the long leash (no leash) on others (Seldon)? Is it his view of 'toughness' and 'energy' that trumps results?
Obviously, he is more successful than not, but our results and the way we get to those results in big games and tournament losses have shown a pattern. Duke has had it's spetacular failures too, but they've had their spectacular success to offset. Very different approach to the game that perhaps has more upward potential versus our consistency.
I'm distressed by the words that come first out of Bill's mouth downplaying shooting prowess and success and then are parroted by our players. Case in point:
“That’s the goal (making shots),” Manning said, “but you can’t expect to come in and make shots" http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2015/nov/14/kansas-hot-3-season-opener/?sports ↗
From Coaches mouth to players ears, then out of players mouths too. Guess what, we now have a 'created' negative culture about hitting baskets from outside. and then we're surprised that it comes to be. Saw Coach K breaking down video of his offense, ball goes in and 4 players all standing at the 3 pt line in shooting ready position...and they are COACHED to do that. Do you think they have a negative pov towards their shots? Do they always succeed and hit, of course not.
We see this negative approach to shooting also in the lack of scheming for outside shooting. And then to top it off after we've run down our outside game, we play our most challenged inside scoring players the majority of the minutes in the big game.
I'm tired of the false talk about "our best shooting team" or "player X showed us so much in off season" ie (Hunter this year).
From now on, it's judging by the results.
One question for the smart people of the board:
If I recall early in the game when MSU was shooting horrific, I think around 24%, Jamari had 4 of his 7 RB's I think before he first substituted out. The ball was coming off the rim like a raindrops in a hurricane. Yet, he ended with 7 or only 3 more for the balance of the game. Obviously, MSU ended up shooting better, but we went from up in RB margin to losing the battle of the boards. How to evaluate in game circumstancial stats that redound to the individual perhaps not due to their particular prowess?
@KansasComet Hunter ranked player...Lucas/Traylor not so much.
@Bosthawk "Self thought"...I'm not sure about that. Was he on auto-pilot?
@Crimsonorblue22 probably, but everything we have heard about Diallo was that he was more raw than Bragg. So I'm not sure having him now would be the magic in the near term. We are good enough to protect the ranking we have, but not if Self plays Lucas/Traylor consistently.
I'm not sure with them in the game that it doesn't upset the balance of the overall system, putting pressure on the guards to feel they have to compensate and thence come out like they did last night.
@BeddieKU23 But his trust in Traylor / Lucas...what because of truly unmeasurable things like 'energy' and 'our best sealer'.
Neither of those things with these players is giving us results. Not last year, not this.
I'm fine with working Bragg's minutes up over time, 3 minutes for Mickelson is inexcusable.
Bragg/Mickelson 14 minutes which is what Lucas had.
@drgnslayr This team was over-rated. WUG built plenty of delusion of the quality of this team.
But Self didn't play the WUG roster...he left Mickelson on the bench all but 3 minutes.
@BeddieKU23 said:
The answer to bench Lucas is to #Free Diallo.
Not in our hands to decide.Hunter is the last big for a reason (in Self's eyes). Bragg will not get the minutes he deserves until he stops playing like a freshman on defense.
Point is that Self has an obvious blind spot.
Diallo most likely would play like a Freshman too . Other Coaches seem to play their talented Fresh. Not sure what our problem is.
@betterfireE I don't disagree at all.
Front court min distribution needs to be different.
We saw and played differently this Summer. We didn't see any evidence that Self learned or carried things over.
That's why the huge disappointment by many of us.
We could take losing if we felt the coach was putting in best position to win, and we just came up short.
Look at the negativity around shot making that comes out of Coach's mouth and then gets picked up and parroted by players. Then we see things like best shooters not taking any 3 pt attempts. Starts at the head.
@betterfireE Traylor had 6 points.. If that was 12 or 14 which Bragg or Mickelson in combination might have made up with superior offensive game, we'd have won.
@betterfireE said:
Traylor was NOT the problem in this game. Frank and Devonte had poor games, and the wing position was dreadful as usual. Valentine is everything we wish Selden would have been.
That's fine, but must evaluate the play of the individual within the group on the floor.
If your bigs are poor options, what stress does that put on your guards and how does that affect their game. Consider the whole.
@ralster But Jamari is not overall effective.
Leave the heart in the chest and coach the game with frontal lobe of the brain.
@DanR Don't disagree, but why in God's green earth is Self (inside out man) playing his worst options on the inside, forcing outside players to carry the weight.
It's inexplicable. Really.
Self has hit my lowest regard ever. I really begin to question his ability to see clearly and adapt.
I don't give a flying crap at this point about what he sees or doesn't see in practice. It's results in games that matter.
Did Seldon play better when Mickelson and Bragg got more PT this summer. Why, yes, I believe he did along with the other guards. So lest's leave them on the bench for the majority of the game.
PLEASE JESSE or other media types
Ask Self about his 5 rotation!
@Statmachine yep
Mickelson had 3 minutes.
Our best big (barring ongoing Bragg development) gets 3 fricken minutes.
On Self 100 %
Jamari/Lucas no offense game... how much pressure does that put on our guards who also sucked royally! Better when they don't have to force stuff.
@MoonwalkMafia Mickelson, our best big of the Summer got 3 damn minutes.
Game, set match..
Self 1-4 in this series.
@JayHawkFanToo said:
We were talking rebounding and since the numbers don't fit your narrative now you switch to offense...
The players play both offense and defense in BBall. Nature of the game.
Mick/Bragg mintutes were 14 combined. The same as Lucas alone.
Mick - 3 min
Bragg - 11 min
I'd argue that Mick should be starting and taking Jamari's 18 mintutes. I'd argue that we'd be even on RB and have more on Offense.
Give Bragg (for now) Lucas 11 minutes and what would we have? That is less clear at this point on RB (def) but certainly more offense. And more points win.
Let our less talented players- Mari and Lucas pick up the spot minutes.
I'll bet our overall offense would run smoother and we'd see more efficiency.
Most importantly, not lose the fricken game.
@JayHawkFanToo said:
Traylor 7 rebounds in 18 minutes, Lucas 7 rebounds in 14 minutes...How many did you expect them to have in those minutes?
What were Bragg/Mickelson minutes? I'm trying tofind that.
Want to find the EFF numbers.
@JayHawkFanToo said:
Traylor 7 rebounds in 18 minutes, Lucas 7 rebounds in 14 minutes...How many did you expect them to have in those minutes?
AND 8 points between the two of them. Do you disagree that they are our worst offensive options in the 5 verses Mick/Bragg?
@cragarhawk Our worst Rebounders wer in the game despite the actual numbers.
@Eric-san said:
I don't like the Champions Classic anymore. What is KU now 1-4?
Good thing Self won 1 NC. Otherwise, we'd be saying he doesn't manage talent and big game situations well.
@JayHawkFanToo said:
top rebounders for KU:
Traylor 7
Lucas 7
Ellis 6
And those stats mean NOTHING. They had nearly all the PT. They got outrebounded. Ithink Traylors first 4 RB's were when MSU was shooting about 24% at the start of the game. Hell Mason had 5 RB's so Trayor /LUcas Rebounding nubmers mean nothing until you start to look at RB/min like HEM has shown.
@tundrahok key point is 3 MIN.
@DinarHawk said:
@Bwag Yep. I was watching UK and was impressed with what Cal does with freshman. He is better at getting his players ready and playing defense well. Been that way the last five years. Self needs to take notice.
X100
@JayHawkFanToo said:
Very poor game for Graham and yet he was the leader in assists with a measly 4.
KU 12 assists, Valentine 12 assists
MSU 9 blocks, KU 1 block
KU 3-15, 20% from 3...
Several front end misses of 1 and 1...
Our best Shot blocker sat on bench and was in warm ups towards end of game.
Crying shame
@JayHawkFanToo Graham had 3 asssists in 1sth half I think.. means 1 in 2nd half.
100% on Self.
Player rotation absolutely a disaster.
The bigs he plays don't pass the stat nor the eyeball test. LOSE/LOSE
and we are 1 - 1 because of it.
@cragarhawk They beat the world.
HEM has demo'd with stats that Traylor is the nearly worst RB/min in self era & he doesn't bring much production in offense.
Lucas about the same offensively.
Hunter blocks shots, gets hands on ball. Keeps it alive.
Not sure how the guards got so screwed up this game but if you don't have an inside game, how much pressure does that put on them. Bragg was 2/2 but how many minutes did he play.
This is a disaster. Self recruits incredible talent and then leaves it on the bench.
@cragarhawk We are outrebounded. Our worst rebounders are getting majoriy of minutes.
NO defense against those stats
@cragarhawk look at at production per minute.
Game 1
Bragg /Mickelsson highest EFF I think.
They get very little PT in this game.
Self has a glaring blind spot and it costs us over and over.
@cragarhawk said:
No rebounding. Msu boys just flat out want it more. Tired of that same ole story..... And we have absolutely got to start getting Big Men who are actually big and actually men
We have them. Just don't fricken play them
First question for Self:
YOur best big play this summer was Hunter Mickelson. Why so little PT?
Again, want to see PT minute distribution of the 4 man 5 rotation.
Bragg/Mickelson v Traylor/Lucas
@DCHawker said:
@wissoxfan83 This one is on Self. No making any adjustments. Just getting killed on penetration and second chance points in the second half. Absolutely no interior D. Why no Mickelson I can't understand.
X1000
Interior game outside of Perry - NOTHING.
Does that put pressure on our guards to force their game?
UGLY!
@Red.Rooster said:
Self gets ALL flustered and red faced at the end of tight games. I'm NOT convinced that he can coach end of game situations. He gets flushed and I think that carries over to his players. They all tighten up too!
I don't care what Self sees in practice. His personnel rotation absolutely sucks.
Why is this game on still at 11:30 pm?
@VailHawk are you seeeing things ahead of the rest of us?
That Seldon 3 big
4 of Lucas's RB's occured when MSUwas shooting 20 something % early in the game. I'm not buying stock in that stat
I want to know the minute differential between:
Mari/Lucas
Bragg/Mickelson
Not going to say that is the whole story, but damn, it's a major point that Self just has to friggen see and figure out.
Fools gold for MSU
@SoftballDad2011 Way too many