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So the Big 12 sucks? • Mar 08, 2015 09:10 PM

@DoubleDD I live on the East Coast and have had to put up with a lot of ACC and (old) Big East chest-beating. However, I'm a KU and B8/B12 lifer. But, we simply haven't measured up in the tournament over the past decade. That isn't perception, but reality.

From '02-04, KU, OU, OSU and Texas all made the FF. Only KU since then.

Yes, other conferences are top-heavy, i.e., ACC and SEC, but they're top heavy with 2, not just one. And, others have had more depth success. Since '04, 5 different B10 teams have made the FF (although they haven't won). In addition, to Duke and UNC, GT made it (of course, MD won it all before that). In addition to UK and FL, LSU made it. Of course, the old Big East just dominated - both in terms of champs and FF participants.

B12 was the strongest it's ever been top to bottom this year - but, the onus is on all the league teams is to make a strong showing in the Big Dance this year.

@HighEliteMajor Hah. Well, we weren't supposed to have to borrow them. Coming in, Alexander was supposed to be the low post load and at least I thought Mickelson could be Withey-lite - certainly showed comparable shot-blocking skills even earlier in development. Hasn't quite played out that way. Maybe Cliff gets back in time for the tournament (sure) and the light goes on for him and Self has simply been hiding Hunter and he breaks out our secret weapon.

@KUSTEVE I've posted elsewhere that this team is taking on some of the characteristics of the '11-12 team - but that's primarily from a toughness, grind-it-out mentality. That team really wasn't that talented - at least in terms of NBA caliber talent - and which struggled offensively for long stretches.

But, I don't think the teams compare well on a person-to-person basis and on their core strengths. That team was really tough down low - a truly great rim protector in Withey and low post beast in Robinson. Really good perimeter defenders, as well, all with size. They were tough to score on. But, offense often ended up being Taylor driving as the clock shot was expiring.

I would also note that team won 8 straight games or something like that headed into the B12 tourney (lost to a ranked Baylor team in the semis).

The comparison with '11-12 is that I think we are indeed capable of grinding out 4 wins to make it to the FF (depending on match-ups, of course). Recall that team was ekeing out wins - only "easy" one was UNC. But, we also have very little margin for error and it wouldn't be shocking if we fell to a 15 or 14 seed in the first round.

@HawksWin I'm certainly not going to defend Greene on the character front - he clearly has some growing up to do. Nor would I "trust" him to carry us. The question is, who can we count on at the 2 right now??? My point is that whether it's due to injury or not, Selden has contributed nothing over the past several games - no scoring, no rebounding, not much defense and too many turnovers. Hate to say it, but right now, I don't "trust" him, as well. If not Selden, then who? Greene certainly isn't a complete answer - apart from being irresponsible or whatever (just inexcusable when we were already short-handed) - he hasn't been hitting 3s. Improved, but still a net defensive liability. But, I would always take him shooting a 3 over Selden. And, he has been rebounding reasonably well - certainly better than Selden. And, he is our best FT shooter. Svi? We really don't have enough to go on - probably too late in the season to put him in high leverage situations, but I think he can give us a few solid minutes. That leaves with with Graham - still learning, but at this point, I think he is our best option at the two - and gives us the most options on offense. I would be giving him 30 minutes a game now - 20 minutes+ at the 2 and subbing for Mason at point.

@Lulufulu If they could just learn to defend a bit better until that very last tick - or 4 or 5 ticks anyway... ;)

@KansasComet @drgnslayr Maybe we can split the difference on this one. Jamari plays with a lot of heart and he is a bit undersized compared to some of the guys he has to guard. Yesterday, he was a major contributor on offense in the second half. But I respectfully disagree with @KansasComet on the defensive end. While he "held" Thomas to 13 and 6, Thomas actually averages 11 and 6. And, he got beat badly by Thomas a couple times. I don't know about not getting credit for 3 RBs, but he was officially credited with just 2. More importantly, in the context of yesterday's game, Oklahoma had their season high in ORs - 18. 13 of those were in the 2nd half, when Jamari was on the floor for a few more minutes than in the first half. We dominated the boards, esp. the defensive glass in the first half when we had an unusual line-up - Hunter and Landon playing together for multiple minutes.

The fact is that Jamari averages just 2 DRs per game (actually a tad under that) - on a per minute basis, his rebounding rate exceeds only that of Wayne and Devonte - he is well behind the other bigs and wings - half the rate of Kelly, and even behind Graham. To your point @KansasComet, it's not lack of effort. But the facts are the facts. His production on the glass is consistently less than one would expect - or needs out of a front court position. I agree here with @drgnslayr that it's a fundamental skill that he hasn't been coached-up on. Not really putting the blame on him. This is where we miss Manning.

@KUSTEVE Health may be a part of it, but having watched him closely for the past two years, I think that maybe Selden is what he is - which is a solid, but limited ballplayer. I had really thought that based on his freshman year, he would be a consistent 15 ppg scorer, tough defender and someone you could post against smaller guards down low. Alas, it hasn't played out that way.

The reason I'm a bit skeptical that it is all injury related is that he's shown a fair amount of hop on several occasions trying (and succeeding) in blocking breakaway layups. And, lack of hops or bad ankle doesn't have that much to do with his ball-handling, which, putting it mildly, is not good. He is one-handed and cannot deal with pressure and he is simply clueless driving into traffic.

I don't mean to be down on the guy - he seems like a really solid citizen and I'm glad he is a Jayhawk. But, right now, he isn't our best option on the wing.

@Crimsonorblue22 Agreed - huge missed opportunity for Brannen - would have been looking at 25-30 minutes. With regard to Devonte, he's struggled a bit (including yesterday), but I give him a pass because he is still a freshman and hasn't played the full season. In his last 3 games where he's gotten more than 20 minutes, he's scored 20, 10 and 8. More importantly, he contributes in other ways - unlike Selden, he can drive fairly effectively. And, the offense opens a bit more when he and Frank are in at the same time - allows more chances for him, Frank or Kelly to attack the rim. Whether it's injury or not (and I'm not convinced that it Is), I think Devonte gives us a lot more than Selden right now.

@Crimsonorblue22 Apparently so, but we've seen this story played out many times with Self over the years - he stays with certain guys even if they aren't producing. Not sure if it's loyalty or the stubbornness trait coming through. There was a stretch over 4-5 games where Selden was a major contributor, but that isn't the case over the past six. The way he has been playing lately, esp. if it is due to injury, personally I would much prefer to see his minutes go to Graham, Greene (if he gets out of the doghouse), and yes, Svi.

@VailHawk Unfortunately, with Selden, the 3s are almost turnovers, as well - he's 0 - the last 4 games and 2 - 19 over the last 6 games. I get that he may have a bum ankle or other physical ailments, but he's killing us on the offensive end. Throw in TOs and non-rebounding, and he really should just be subbing in for a few minutes a game until he is healthy - not getting 30 minutes a game (and 18 yesterday). But, we know Self likes to ride certain horses, regardless of what the data and your eyes tell you.

@drgnslayr @HighEliteMajor You both touch upon what I think is a key issue with this team - rebounding. We are not a particularly good rebounding team, at least compared to other other Jayhawk teams. We especially give up a high rate of ORs. OU, which itself is small up front, had their highest number of ORs last night, almost all of them in the second half. Some of that is attributable to not being as big as years past, but a lot of it is attributable to poor fundamental.

And, while I also admire his energy, much of the blame for that is attributable to Jamari - not just last night, but all season long. Simply put, he doesn't contribute much on the glass generally - and he is just terrible on the defensive end. He averages less than 2 DRs per game. Almost everyone else has a defensive rebound rate higher than he does - Oubre collects DRs at almost twice the rate. The more minutes Jamari plays, the more rebounds and points we will give up in the paint.

This may be where we miss Manning the most - coaching up the bigs on fundamentals. Jamari doesn't defend well on the ball, he doesn't rotate well, and he gets caught out of position. Cliff has had the same problems. Landon is much more sound fundamentally (as is Hunter) but doesn't have the athleticism (and very weak hands).

Jamari gives us energy, and maybe a bit more optionality on the offensive end, but I'm not sure it's enough to offset what we lose on the defensive end. If he's playing 20-30 minutes (rather than 12-15), it's going to be a problem on defense for us - especially against other teams that attack the glass.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:48 PM

@Bwag I think the key was the turnaround on the glass. We dominated in the first half, they did in the 2d. We had 14 ORs in the 1st half, just 1 or 2 in the 2nd. We had a 12 RB advantage in the 1st half and just ended up with a 2 RB advantage. They didn't hit 3s in the second half, but got second chance points. The difference - Jamari, who doesn't rebound, played more minutes in the second half, and Hunter fewer. Maybe gave us a bit more on the offensive end, but Jamari got beat by his guy too often and he doesn't block out. I would rather have the ability to make stops, but that's just me.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:30 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 Alas, blocking out has not been one of our signal strengths this year - sarcasm dripping.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:29 PM

Really bad defense on that last play, and tough way to lose, but otherwise a truly valiant effort by the guys. Hat's off.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:19 PM

@Bwag I don't think they will let anyone shoot - will foul

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:09 PM

@Bwag Not sure I'm familiar with that sound...

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:03 PM

@brooksmd Agreed - no heart palpitations on this one. No expectations coming in - it's all gravy.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 11:00 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 He's where he belongs. All other starters in double figures. Everyone who has played has scored - except Selden. And, no rebounds.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:52 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 I'm already past Cliff - more minutes for Hunter and Landon

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:51 PM

@brooksmd Not sure Hudy can do anything about that - would have already happened.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:50 PM

Gotta say - win or lose - this is fun - short-handed, weird line-ups, on the road against a good team and the guys are hanging in there.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:47 PM

@ajvan You just got it!

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:44 PM

Bad Ball from here on out - Mason or Oubre take it to the rim every time, get to the foul line - get a few stops - voila! a 2pt win on the road!!!!

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:42 PM

@ajvan Because they have to think every time whether it is "in the flow of the offense"

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:40 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 He isn't adept - yet - at finishing, but I want him to take to the hole every damn time

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:31 PM

Landon Lucas has a double-double!!!

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:24 PM

Nice drive by Jamari, but he is getting beat down low by his man every time.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:23 PM

@KansasComet Yes - but this is like the beginning of the game - we're getting beat down court.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:20 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 10 for friggin' 37 from the field (27%) - but only down 2 on the road against a likely 5 seed. Guys getting it done on the boards - 14 ORs. If we could just get to 50% around the rim... Bad Ball rears its ugly (good) "self" again!

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:04 PM

@brooksmd Although it was his best looking shot yet - had more of a chance to go in that any of his other bricks.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 10:02 PM

Hunter missed that shot, but I would love to see Self use him on the high post - I think he could make some of those 15 footers near the FT line, and he's a pretty good passer. Think he could open up the paint for Perry or Kelly in future games.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:59 PM

@KansasComet And, they're a decent team - they played WSU pretty close in both of their earlier losses to them. Probably a favorable crowd in St. Louis.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:53 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 Selden is a sizzling 6-30 from the field over the past 5 games - o'fer today

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:47 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 The second one was just lazy defense - beat him down to this spot.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:43 PM

The bad news is that we still can't make shots beyond or at the rim - 5-22 so far - and, against a team that doesn't have length and certainly isn't known for its defense. The good news is despite that, we're only down 7 going to the free-throw line.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:38 PM

Poor Landon has zero strength or touch around the rim...

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:27 PM

This could get ugly - and not ugly good like the past couple of games...

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:23 PM

@Crimsonorblue22 All-time great - no, But, he is a damn good coach - has been successful everywhere. OU will be competitive as long as he is there.

Kansas @ OU • Mar 07, 2015 09:20 PM

Oubre probably done for the rest of the half with two quick - not very smart - fouls

So the Big 12 sucks? • Mar 07, 2015 08:49 PM

@HighEliteMajor You make the key point - it's fairly consistent underachievement by the conference as a whole in the tournament. Last year was a particularly harsh example - B12 got the most bids - 7 - but only won 6 games total. In some years, there have been as many as 5 or 6 conferences with better results - in just one tournament. I believe the only year that the B12 had the most conference wins was when we won it in '08 - KU's 6 wins and 6 by other conference teams. Showed well early in the century - '03 and '04, as well, but we were still only 2d or 3rd best those years. You're right - we can say its a crapshoot, but other conferences have had better results at the craps table over time.

Hopefully this is a year that the entire league shows well - with a little of that luck, maybe we can get a couple of teams into the FF.

So the Big 12 sucks? • Mar 07, 2015 03:15 PM

@DoubleDD All the power rankings have the B12 as the top conference this year, but that needs to be qualified a bit. It's a product of the fact that we had the best non-conference record against mostly non-patsy competition, which boosted power rankings early and everyone got the benefit or playing against each other, all with strong power rankings. However, the league really didn't get any top tier wins in non-conference - mostly it got a bunch of solid wins and managed to avoid bad losses. Other conferences, such as the ACC, while having several inferior teams, also have more ranked highly than does the B12.

And, you are spot on that the conference has underachieved in the tournament. 1 NCAA title in almost 30 years. You noted the two KU FFs in the last 11 years - Texas made it in '03 and OSU in '04, but that is it this century. That is well behind the other power conferences. Unless and until others step up in addition to KU, we won't get the respect we strive for.

@drgnslayr I hope you are right about B12 teams making a mark in the tournament. The league needs a good showing. One of the talking head roundtables the other day was focused on whether the B12 is overrated. They were making the point - and it is hard to disagree with - that while it is most certainly the toughest top to bottom - really no easy outs, esp. on the road - it's difficult to identify likely FF candidates - including KU. Whether we get 6 or 7 in, I think all will be tough outs and the league will probably be seeded well, I'm not sure I see ISU, Baylor or OU - all probably seeded 3-6 and thus favorites - as slam dunks to get through the first weekend. Would love to see 4 in the sweet 16 and 2-3 in the elite 8 - and, of course, the Hawks in the FF.

@Crimsonorblue22 Yes! Mickelson, Svi, Graham, Greene and Oubre getting serious minutes together - not sure they can defend well enough, but I think they would be fun to watch - good passing and (potentially) shooting group.

@Crimsonorblue22 Not sure what his idea of a "fun" line-up is, but I would sure love to see Hunter, Svi and Devonte start - or at least get starter minutes - and just see what happens. Selden sit to rest the ankle and Frank get some rest period, just taking Devonte's sub minutes.

@jaybate-1.0 I'm interested in your comment that Self has made a decisive move to Bad Ball. My impression over the past few games, esp. the last two, is that he has resorted to Bad Ball in the second half only after first trying "run our stuff" and that failing miserably and 3 point shots not falling (again, putting aside causation, e.g., whether being spooked, better defended or reversion to a mean). I thought his post-game comments after WVU were particularly telling - saying he told them to just constantly attack the rim.

Who knows what the approach will be at OU without Perry, Cliff and probably Wayne, but I'm still expecting him to choose to try to "run stuff" in the tournament against teams that won't know us as well, but that he will have no hesitation about falling back on Bad Ball if it ain't happening....

@jaybate-1.0 Reposting portions of another thread, it appears that Self is intent on trying to "run our stuff" every game until it becomes painfully obvious that we aren't able to do successfully, in which case he resorts to Bad Ball - which I thought was elevated to Badder Ball against WVU.

As Self noted in his comments, nothing was working on the offensive end, so he just told the boys to attack the rim. Translation - we couldn't run our stuff. In fact, we can't run our stuff with this group against teams that know us - and probably not against good teams that don't. And, the guys know it, so they just go through motions. So, second half let's forget about running our stuff and just attack the rim. Doesn't really matter that we can't finish there - we'll get to the foul line, wear 'em down and win a war of attrition. And, it was the recipe for success the last two games. We got 45 friggin' percent of our points from the FT line last night - and 38% the game before. Remarkable - is it sustainable? Apart from the frequency of shots, I certainly don't recall a prior KU team hitting FTs at an 80% clip over 4 games like this - typically FTs have been a problem for us.

And, the forget about running our stuff tack seems to get the guys in attack mode on the defensive end, as well. 40 points in the 1st half, just 19 the second. Perhaps just correlation, and not causation?

Given what we now know and understand to be the very real limitations of this team at least in terms of fundamental skills and capabilities, both individually and collectively, and that the inability to execute Hi-lo or 4 out-1 in or much of anything else consistently, Bad Ball may be the last best hope for success post-season. We'll start out running our stuff, and if it's working great, but, if not, will fall back on Bad(der) Ball, because we know we can "execute" that, right?

Given that:

Mason is tough as nails and our most consistent player over the course of the year, but isn't really a true PG - although better than last year, he doesn't have PG instincts and doesn't distribute the ball well - esp. when penetrating or on fast breaks. There have been countless times on breaks when he should have laid if off to a trailer.

Perry has really stepped it up recently and is our best pure scorer, but is really only effective when the paint is opened up and he can maneuver against one defender (and who can't be equally athletic and longer) by driving from the outside or spinning inside.

Oubre is the most skilled two way player (by far IMO), but is still a bit raw and learning the game - he will only get better - unfortunately, probably not in a Jayhawk uniform.

Selden is a solid citizen and solid on the ball defender, but doesn't use his size effectively, can't finish at the rim, and simply is incapable of dribbling or passing in traffic or against pressure (to think that there was some discussion, including by HCBS at the beginning of the year about him getting minutes at the 1).

Traylor has made some spectacular "energy" plays, is the emotional guy (for better and worse) and he was a difference maker yesterday, but he is undersized, turns the ball over too much, and can disappear for parts of all of a game - or multiple games.

Alexander is a big body and is our best rebounder, but doesn't have a back to the basket game, gets lost on offense, and gets easily beat by mobile big men.

Greene is the best pure shooter and clutch on FTs, but can't create his own shot, and, while improved, is still a liability on defense.

Graham is a solid back-up at PG now and can be very effective at the 2 along with Mason, and will only get better, but is still inexperience and inconsistent - growth hampered somewhat by injury.

Lucas is the best big fundamentally, but has no verticality and has perhaps the weakest hands of any big ever at Kansas (well, along with Withey early on).

Svi - who really knows since we've not seen much of him since early - clearly great ball IQ and skills, just physically overpowered now.

Mickleson is mostly an unknown, although he was our best player in the 1st half yesterday (admittedly not a high bar) and showed some skills - would like to see more, actually.

And, collectively, the team doesn't box out well, doesn't space well, doesn't pass well and doesn't rotate well on defense.

So, what's left - blood, sweat and tears and a war of attrition. Mask our McDs fundamental shortcomings, but mix in their superior skill and athleticsism with toughness and chip on the shoulder attitude of our non-McDs and win UGLY!. I think this team is taking on some of the character of the '11-'12 team - they won't out finesse anyone, but maybe, just maybe, they can Bad/Badder ball their way to another FF. Not much margin for error, but perhaps a better ability to respond to adversity in the moment and still prevail.

RCJH!!!

@Crimsonorblue22 Wholeheartedly agree. Hallmark of most Self teams has been the ability to clamp down and get stops on multiple consecutive possessions - allowing leads to be protected or extended. Defense was very good in the second half last night, but this team has yet to demonstrate that it can consistently get stops down the stretch - and not giving up 2nd chance points is a big part of that.

With acknowledgements to @jaybate-1.0 and @lincase and apologies to both and the English language, we've graduated from Bad Ball to Badder Ball. A truly remarkable game and season in so many respects, esp. when compared and contrasted to other teams during the Self era.

Listening to the audio of Self's post-game comments was truly enlightening - I thought the joy, relief and pride in his voice was palpable - both for the guys and frankly for himself. Even though he doesn't really need the validation, I expect he took great satisfaction (with a side smirk to all the board rats here, me included) that we could 0-15 on 3 pointers (putting aside causation for that performance) and still pull out a win. Classic Self win ugly.

And, boy was it fantastically gloriously ugly. Down 18 at home to a good, but not great team missing 2 starters and its best player on senior night. Getting killed on the boards. Getting beat to every loose ball. Hitting nothing from outside. Turning it over with alarming frequency. And, yet, come away with a win.

As Self noted in his comments, nothing was working on the offensive end, so he just told the boys to attack the rim. Translation - we couldn't run our stuff. In fact, we can't run our stuff with this group against teams that know us - and probably not against good teams that don't. And, the guys know it, so they just go through motions. So, second half let's forget about running our stuff and just attack the rim. Doesn't really matter that we can't finish there - we'll get to the foul line, wear 'em down and win a war of attrition.

Indeed, that's been the recipe the past two games. We got 45 friggin' percent of our points from the FT line last night - and 38% the game before. Remarkable - is it sustainable? Apart from the frequency of shots, I certainly don't recall a prior KU team hitting FTs at an 80% clip over 4 games like this - typically FTs have been a problem for us.

And, the forget about running our stuff tack seems to get the guys in attack mode on the defensive end, as well. 40 points in the 1st half, just 19 the second. "Fun" to watch, but the fun part was after they had pulled it out - really wasn't particularly enjoyable during the moment and I'm still struggling to understand how it happened - and, to be honest, I didn't believe it was going to happen until it did. Full props to the guys for continuing to grind.

I would posit that given what we now know and understand to be the very real limitations of this team at least in terms of fundamental skills and capabilities, both individually and collectively, and that the inability to execute Hi-lo or 4 out-1 in or much of anything else consistently, that this may actually be Self's best coaching job to date (although I might argue that it is also the worst "coaching-up" job on the part of the entire staff given continued fundamental lapses.

Consider:

Mason is tough as nails and our most consistent player over the course of the year, but isn't really a true PG - although better than last year, he doesn't have PG instincts and doesn't distribute the ball well - esp. when penetrating or on fast breaks. There have been countless times on breaks when he should have laid if off to a trailer.

Perry has really stepped it up recently and is our best pure scorer, but is really only effective when the paint is opened up and he can maneuver against one defender (and who can't be equally athletic and longer) by driving from the outside or spinning inside.

Oubre is the most skilled two way player (by far IMO), but is still a bit raw and learning the game - he will only get better - unfortunately, probably not in a Jayhawk uniform.

Selden is a solid citizen and solid on the ball defender, but doesn't use his size effectively, can't finish at the rim, and simply is incapable of dribbling or passing in traffic or against pressure (to think that there was some discussion, including by HCBS at the beginning of the year about him getting minutes at the 1).

Traylor has made some spectacular "energy" plays, is the emotional guy (for better and worse) and he was a difference maker yesterday, but he is undersized, turns the ball over too much, and can disappear for parts of all of a game - or multiple games.

Alexander is a big body and is our best rebounder, but doesn't have a back to the basket game, gets lost on offense, and gets easily beat by mobile big men.

Greene is the best pure shooter and clutch on FTs, but can't create his own shot, and, while improved, is still a liability on defense.

Graham is a solid back-up at PG now and can be very effective at the 2 along with Mason, and will only get better, but is still inexperience and inconsistent - growth hampered somewhat by injury.

Lucas is the best big fundamentally, but has no verticality and has perhaps the weakest hands of any big ever at Kansas (well, along with Withey early on).

Svi - who really knows since we've not seen much of him since early - clearly great ball IQ and skills, just physically overpowered now.

Mickleson is mostly an unknown, although he was our best player in the 1st half yesterday (admittedly not a high bar) and showed some skills - would like to see more, actually.

Collectively, the team doesn't box out well, doesn't space well, doesn't pass well and doesn't rotate well on defense.

Notwithstanding, we're 24-6 against a very challenging schedule, the deepest the B12 has ever been, just clinched #11 and are a near lock to be a 2 seed in the Big Dance. Remarkable stuff. Still not quite sure how we've gotten here and less sure how far we can advance in the tourney, but this team seems to be taking on some of the character of the '11-'12 team - they won't out finesse anyone, but maybe, just maybe, they can Bad/Badder ball their way to another FF....

WVU vs Kansas Chat - It's payback time! • Mar 04, 2015 03:19 AM

@DoubleDD Yes, but who do you have confidence in recognizing it, and then making it? WVU was double teaming well above the key - someone has to be open - 1 or 2 quick passes and make them pay.

WVU vs Kansas Chat - It's payback time! • Mar 04, 2015 03:17 AM

One of the more remarkable stat lines of a remarkable season - Hunter is the team's leading scorer in the 1st half. Now what would have been the odds of that. And another remarkable stat line - Selden 0 pts, 1 RB and 4 TOs.