It seems our boy Perry Ellis has been taking a beating after missing that layup/dunk in the WV game. Well the beating stops now. What do you say KU Buckets faithful? It's time to show some love.
Now for some love
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DoubleDD
3749 posts
Yea schools like KU and UK play almost every game on national televised games. I sure hope you're right about UK losing for more than one reason.
1 I hate UK
2 I'm not a big fan of the OAD. I'm afraid if UK wins another championship then college basketball will forever be changed.
Maybe it's to late? NBA sure seems slow footed to do anything about it.
Yea but I would raise the question. A lot of the OAD's are going to blue blood schools. Is it just a fad among kids? You know it's cool to go to that school or that school. I never been a OAD ok maybe have lol but I wonder how much they look at the style and system when choosing a school?
I think you raise a great point. If you're going to run a certain system than just recruit to your system. Even it means passing on some OAD's. Problem is I think as a fan base and a blueblood school I'm not sure KU can pass on the OAD's I believe we are all in on the craze.
Not really sure how you think I've been mean in my responses? I'm just dishing out like you are.
Kind of funny I haven't said you've been unfair, yet with your every post you act like I have no ideal what I'm talking about and that I'm wasting your time. Yet you seem upset with everything I post. I don't get it? I've neither called you names or attacked your character as a person. I've spent this entire post trying to build my case and you have spent you're whole time trying to pass off my theory as lunacy.
Many times I've said or alluded to that we need to have an inside game to sustain any real great success. However after watching HCBS's High/low system all these years I've drawn the conclusion that it doesn't favor the outside game. As HCBS said himself 3's should come in the flow of the game. So I'm not to far off in my thinking. Not to mention I'm not alone in my thinking.
So one last question as one KU fan to another. Am I so wrong to think that HCBS should change or at least tweak his High/low scheme? Especially in light of the team we have this year can really shoot the three? In a nut shell that's all I'm saying.
P.S If you want to ignore me then that's your choice. Me personally I rather enjoyed the lively debate.
"Another poster is a fan of saying how frequent roster turnover dictates you should potentially change things on a yearly basis. To me, that's the exact reason why you don't change."
I assume you're speaking of me? ')
Let me try a different approach with you. Instead of the you said, I said game we've been playing. I want to ask you a few questions, of course followed with a few points I have.
I believe its safe to say you're a firm believer in playing one system as it helps with the evolution of the team concept and the program as a whole?
So lets say you have exactly what you want. A team of 3 to 4 year players, playing the HCBS High/Low system. Lets pick a year and a team. How about 2011/12? You had everything you wanted. That was a great team, loved them guys. They played with heart and I was completely broken up when they lost. However the reality of that typical high/low HCBS team got beat by a for more talented team whose coach that tailored his game plan to fit his team.
Now weren't you one those that said winning conferences championships wasn't really that important? I believe you said it really means nothing as the Big 12 far is inferior to other conferences? That tournament success and winning championships is the true measuring stick? Please if I'm wrong please by all means let me know.
Now you can say hey we could've had better talent at this position or that position, but that is the flaw in you theory. If the talent was any better they wouldn't be there for 3 to 4 years. Welcome to the one and done world. Last year KU lost their two best players who spent there whole freshman year learning the High/low system, and there gone. Again this year will most likely lose Oubre and yes even big Cliff. Again spending a whole year of teaching the high/low to kids that will be gone. Never really tapping into their true talent. That my friend is sad.
You see it's not about snide remarks, it's more about you're a hard one to pin down. As you say one thing and believe another. And you're about depicting what one says and play avoidance when some returns the favor. I've been nice sir just as nice as you.
Thought maybe you guys would like this.
I guess I'm the dumb one? I guess all the articles I read about how the game is changing with the influx of OAD's is well just fabricated? Huh? All those interviews with HC's even HCBS saying that they have to dummy down the game plan are bogus too? Huh? It must have been my imagination watching post players come to KU only to struggle in HCBS system. Wonder Why? Can't be because the system is hard to learn or anything.
I focus on the post players because HCBS's system focuses on post players. Or am I wrong on that one too? geez
So you think or make an assumption that KU isn't good enough to win the title this year because UK is just so good? Yet you have no problem grandstanding and predict a title run in a couple of years. When you really don't know what KU's lineup will look like. Also I'm pretty sure UK isn't just going to fall off a cliff in a couple years. Here is where you and I are different as fans. You're thinking about two years from now. OK fine, but I think this KU team can win it this year if HCBS would starting tapping into the real strength of this team.
Also I have no panic dude. I'm sorry that my point of view goes against everything you stand for, but it's not like I'm in panic or scared mode. I'm just doing what any good fan would do and talk about the team I root for.
I fully understand where you're coming from. You're a system guy. Keep doing the same thing even if you don't have the right pieces to run it, and never ever change it to get better performance. You're an extreme person, I get it.
Hell yea I think HCBS should change the high/low at least for this year. He is wasting the best offense KU has. But hey lets keep throwing it down low, because it worked so well in previous years. News flash it's not working this year. That's not an assumption or an opinion. You're stat guy look it up.
Oh and by the way I read all you're posts. I always do.
Whose comparing us to Kentucky? I know it wasn't me. I guess you missed the memo where kids are going after one year. How there being drafted on potential and not so much what they do on the court. It's not just a Kentucky thing.
You know it's kind of ironic you and a few others are always talking about how weak the Big 12 is and conference championships don't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Yet your more than willing to preach about staying the course. What gives? Or do you just like to argue? I figured somebody like you who is a bit of a fan of the NBA would understand the point I'm making. Guess not.
I have to be honest you put me on the defense here, as you chastise me for assuming some of my points. However aren't you doing the same thing? I assume the high/low is hard to learn because I've yet to really see a freshman or even transfer come in and just pick up the HCBS High/Low system. Just something I've seen. Yet again I assume players will leave if giving the chance, as I have watched players that really wanted to stay in college pick up and leave like they had no choice. I don't need some stat sheet to tell me this. It's called watching and observing.
You assume the core of this team will back in a couple years. Ok but will it really matter? Are you assuming that Cliff will be back? are you assuming that Bragg will just pick up the HCBS High/low with ease? Is Ellis finally going to figure out how to score over three guys in the paint? Are you saying you see a team that can cut down the nets in March? You know my friend your making assumptions too.
Now if I thought it was easy to come up with a game plan I wouldn't be sitting on a couch watching games just like you. However you can't tell me that this KU can't shoot the three ball and there is no reason why we shouldn't take a few more shoots for three land. That's just common sense. Also I never called for the end of the High/Low or HCBS's head. Maybe you should read what I guy says before you pounce. Just saying.
You're living a dream half this team isn't going to be around in two or three years. I want to believe what you're preaching but come on you know as well as I do Oubre is gone Cliff is gone, Selden is most likely done. This is the new world we live in. There is no time to teach a complicated high low offense. You make your case thinking these players will be back for another year. My friend we are in the one and done.
Now if HCBS wants to stop recruiting OAD's and instead recruit players that aren't good enough to leave after one year, then talk to me. I'm all ears. However if we are going to over recruit the players we already have. Then the game plan should change every year to the talent we have. Just saying.
Only one problem my friend. HCBS's classic high low takes time to learn. It's not like it used to be. Years past we recruit a big and he rides the bench his freshman year only getting a few minutes here and there. All the while learning the system. Today these kids are starting as freshman. It's to much for them to learn in such a short time.
Not only that even you would agree with me that this year's team strength is out behind the three point line. I'm not saying we should abandon the inside game but man this team should be chucking up threes at least 20 to 25 a game. Just saying.
There was a time when teams had one sniper that usually came off the bench. When he was hot it was game over. When he wasn't? Well then you were in a dog fight.
However the game has changed. KU has 4 to 5 players that can hit the three with ice in their veins. How you only take 10 to 15 shots from three land when your strength is taking that shot is beyond on me?
Don't get me wrong I totally understand the importance of having an inside game. Yet you've watched all the games I have. How many times did we force the ball inside when the ball should have been passed out to a wide open KU sniper standing in three land?
I'm getting tired of watching Ellis trying to score over 3 players in the paint with no success.
HCBS's motto is three's should come in the flow of the game, but I say with this year's team points in the paint should come in the flow of the game. Just my two cents.
Being an old man I look back on my life and marvel at how much things and places have changed. What was cutting edge became obsolete. What was cool became lame. No matter how much we want things to stay the same. Change is always around the corner. Maybe it's a product of capitalism or maybe it's just a product of our society. Either way to sustain success or grab the brass ring one needs to change, or be left behind.
While some have questioned HCBS's coaching abilities? I've spent most of this year being silent and in some occasions defended him. However after watching the WV game I can no longer be silent.
I'm so frustrated with this team, and HCBS. For the life of me I can't find the rhyme or reason to the method at which this team plays. I've watched just about every game this year. I see the talent, the ability. It just blows my mind why this team can't put it together. Don't get me wrong KU has won a lot of games this year, and are mostly likely are going to win or at least share another conference championship. However the reality is this team is underachieving.
So who do we blame? The players? or The HCBS? A HC creates the game plan and the players carry out the game plan. However what if the players can't carry out the game plan? Is it not the HC's responsibility to play to the strength of his team? Instead of trying to force a square peg into a round hole?
HCBS is a great coach, in fact he's one of he best. He has cut his teeth on playing inside. He has buttered his bread with a strong inside game. Boys and girls playing inside has made him a great coach and sure Hall of Famer. However I'm afraid if he doesn't change and adapt his plan, the game will indeed pass him by.
How many times have we watched KU come out and pound the ball inside only to watch Ellis miss 3 of 4 shots and have a couple turnovers? How many times have we watched KU overcome a deficit with outside shooting only to have HCBS demand they go back inside? I fully understand that having an inside game is key to any real success. However I think HCBS is overlooking the fact that unlike previous years, this years team has no interior passing. That's it right there. In previous years KU always had somebody that could score and someone that could do the little things. Like passing, rebounding, and blocking shots. KU doesn't have it this year. Not all is lost though. This KU team can shoot the three ball like none I've ever seen. They don't take hurried threes, and when they do take threes they are good shots. If HCBS wants to bench a player for not playing defense, hustling, or not rebounding then I'm all in. However if one of KU's snipers takes a set three to early in the shot clock a trip to the bench is uncalled for. KU shoots threes this year. It's what they are good at coach.
A new era of basketball is coming to the forefront. It means change. Some old thinking will need to be forgotten or at the very least tweaked. I still have I hopes for HCBS but he's reached the crossroads of his coaching career. He'll either cling to what got him here or he will adapt. Either way change will come. With the OAD era in full force, the player that sticks around for 3 or 4 years are gone. What worked in the yesteryear won't work today.
Failure and losing is apart of anything we do in life. However if I'm going to lose I rather lose doing what we do best, than trying to do something I'm not good at.
Before I get into my rant. I just want to say I'm a KU homer, and always believe KU is the best in the College basketball world. I always believe they are going to win.
However I'm a realist also, and can no longer dream with this team. I love them and I'll keep rooting as any other KU fan. However the time has come to temper the expectations, This team isn't cutting down any nets in March.
I just watched a team at home with a wild crowd and over matched at every position on the court pull off a stunner. Bottom line this game should have never been close. WV didn't win this game KU lost it, and that my friends isn't the markings of a champion. Champions don't lose they get beat.
Ok so I've had a few beers and high hopes of this game, but I was left a buzz and a reality this KU team isn't cutting down no nets in March. Sorry KU nation I mean no disrespect but this team isn't a championship team. "(
Now if we can just get 810 am talking heads to respect KU?
I just don't see HCBS adding any former players, especially if he ends up with a loin share of top recruits.
It would be really counter productive to add former players. Unless the agenda is just to win at all cost, or that HCBS wants to show his mad coaching skills to the NBA?
Think about it? Unlimited practices with a young star studded team? No way you leave current players sitting at home. Just my two cents.
Welcome aboard. Nice topic.
I believe it all comes down to who stays and who goes. I do believe in your theory that this could indeed help KU in recruiting. I believe I read some where that Bragg and some other top recruits wanted to play together. Not sure what Bragg committing early does to those plans.
Oh yea ;)
Well as a parent you don't want you're children to do anything that would harm their body or their mind.
However the argument of cannabis is really pointless. I say if it's legal for someone to go to a bar and get drunk. Then why is Cannabis not legal? That's the question that needs to be asked. Remember Cannabis was legal at one point in this country.
Thousands if not hundred of thousands of innocent person have been killed by those that chose to drink and drive. Alcohol has wrecked millions of families and destroyed many of livers. Yet there is no plethora of voices clamoring for it's demise.
Smoking cannabis or taking it orally is no more harmful than someone drinking a 12 pack of beer or a bottle of whisky. Think about it? It's like someone saying hey buddy I can drink my whisky but you can't smoke your pot?
@Crimsonorblue22 the fact of the matter is there are lots of things I don't want my children to do. However our society is one born of freedom, and though I could and will try to keep my children safe. In the end they most choose what path they shall walk. Trying to just eliminate the things that one may find harmful from the plethora of choices never really works.
I would smoke it today if it was legal, but it's not.
I always marvel at those that condemn cannabis, while popping the top off a cold beer. Not realizing how many people die from the use of Alcohol every year. Just saying.
As society changes what was once legal becomes illegal, and vice versa. Though there is a movement to legalize Cannabis it is indeed still illegal in most states.
Some will say the law is the law and so forth and the law was broken. Therefore he is guilty and must be fired or released as to save the image of the University. That he had a leadership position and therefore there is no second chance.
And some will say what's the big deal. Is getting caught smoking cannabis any different than getting caught drinking while driving. They will make a case why cannabis should be legal and point to the fact that is indeed becoming legal. No they will say to releasing Snacks, instead will say give him a second chance. What's the big deal.
Well you are both right and wrong.
In the end Snack's real crime will be he didn't tell HCBS. That my friends is a no, no. '(
Come on boys and girls?
First you don't want to play UK when the stakes are high. That team has shown to rise to the occasion.
Second if the stakes are high for them then they will be high for KU. I know KU isn't having a stellar year here, but they are indeed still KU.
No lets play them early when UK is just getting warmed up. They're a young team if they see KU in the Final Four it will be game on, but if they see them before the Final Four it'll be like we already smacked these guys around once.
They come thinking hey we showed up we win. That's win KU comes out and hit's them in the mouth. They won't know what hit them.
Remember my friends it's not where you start in the tournament it's where you finish.
Thanks everybody for all the great advice and info. My eyes have been opened to some things I wasn't aware of. My daughter and I are going to sit down and do some serious homework.
Geez I haven't done homework in decades. There was this one time I seen my daughter sitting at the table doing homework. So I sat down and asked if she needed any help. She looked up at me with a twinkle in her eye and said with a smile from ear to ear, "Nay I got it Dad" :P
Ok my daughter is about to graduate, and she is off the charts with language arts skills. (she didn't get it from me) (lol) Somehow my love for the Jayhawks has rubbed off on her. ') She wants to attend KU. Everything is great.
This is my problem. She is going to be valedictorian. With this honor She receives a paid two year scholarship for her first two years. However she has to attend the local college to receive the benefit.
She is torn she wants to attend KU but wants to save old dad some money. Her plan is to take the scholarship then attend KU for her last two years.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for saving money but I want my baby girl to fulfill her dreams.
Any advice?
Thank you sir. I was half expecting to log on to KUBuckets and start a topic on how sad I was. Watching KU lose in grand fashion and watching UK yet win again left me somewhat sad. Yet your simple no nonsense words have renewed me. :)
I think it would be great, but I'm not sure Ol'Roy and the Brass at UNC would be on board with that.
I'm not sure the whole KU and MU thing was about a rivalry as it was just pure hate. Think about it KU owned them in basketball, and except for the recent success in MU football the records were a wash.
Even in a good rivalry the opponent will tip their cap when they are beat. Something no MU fan has ever done. They just make excuses, and turn to name calling.
As for a true rivalry for KU, the problem is they are a national brand. They recruit with the best and their HC's can X an O with the best. Nobody in the Big 12 is even close. Though some rise to that level for a season or two, they never seem to maintain it.
Iowa St could be that team but I'm not sure they can sustain the recruiting to stay with KU. Really the School in the Big 12 that could do it, would be Texas. However they need to change their mindset and HC when it comes to basketball. I know some like to defend HCRB but man he has had some very talented teams, and never did nothing with it.
Other than a Blue Blood willing to trade punches with KU I'm not sure KU gets the rivalry they want and the fans need.
Well if you haven't seen the kid? He's a monster.
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I'm not so sure about Thon Maker. Some of the stuff I'm reading is he might not pass the clearinghouse, and has said if he doesn't he will go over seas. I know this is the OAD era but something doesn't seem right here. Maybe I'm wrong.
Who knew a peach basket and a leather ball could change the world.
As fans we love to compare. We compare players, we compare teams, we compare stats, we compare SOS, we compare size, we compare wins and losses, we compare rookie seasons, and so on. Yet we don't compare the mindset of these kids, what they have been through or their heart. Welcome KU to the world of the OAD.
Last year with the signature of Wiggins KU really got their first taste of the OAD. Embiid was never recruited to be a OAD. He just turned out to be one. With any OAD comes great potential but what is the reality? Already some even in the KU nation think and feel that Wiggins is a failure and will be nothing more than a journeymen in the NBA. Saying the potential did not live up to the reality. I disagree.
Gather around I'm going to tell you a story. A young man whose Dad played a NBA career for the Chicago Bulls and Houston Rockets, and a mother that won two NCAA titles in track and then two Olympic silver medals as part of relay teams at the 1984 Summer Games. This young man decided to play basketball. I wonder what Wiggins would have done as a Track and Field athlete. ')
Imagine what the local high school coach thought when he first saw Wiggins trying to make the team? For some reason the young Wiggins makes the team. Young Wiggins is living the dream. He's playing basketball, hanging out with his friends and taking girls out for a hamburger or cheeseburgers. Turns out Wiggins isn't to bad at playing the game of basketball. So Dad and Coach (I'm assuming) says hey lets send him some big name tournaments. His buddies are like you're the man, and the girls are starting to see Wiggins in a different light (wink, wink). Wiggins being a young was having the time of his life. Until it happened?
Some talent scouts who had watched Wiggins play, studied his game, crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that Wiggins is the next LeBron. Could you imagine what Wiggins was thinking? I'd bet the house his first words were (huh?). Poor Wiggins. Welcome to the world of potential versus reality.
This is the problem with OAD's and potential versus reality. Even if Wiggins becomes the next Paul Pierce or Scotty Pippen he will be considered a failure. All because some talent scouts claimed he would be the next King James. The same scouts who miss year after year on talent. Think about how many 1st round picks fail, hell think about how many top ten picks fail? Yet for some reason their word is golden and the player is the failure. Go figure.
However like I said previously we fans don't compare heart and mindsets. For you KU fans that think Wiggins is a misfire. That book is still open, there are many more chapters to be written. I made up most of that story, and I don't know Wiggins personally. However I know he's got talent and I believe he has heart. Remember the OAD's are just kids chasing a dream and taking the money like you say they should. Just saying.
Just for conversation sake and to keep the thread going. What about the Charlotte Bobcats. The Blue Devils and Tar Heels don't seem to be hurt by their inception, or am I wrong? Maybe it has hurt NCstate and Wake Forest?
Though NC is one of the fastest growing states in the country, if my memory is correct.
I've often wondered why Kentucky doesn't have an NBA team? Is the NBA afraid of Wildcats and Cardinals? Though there has been some back room whispers of the NBA putting a team in Louisville.
I've often wondered what effect an NBA team would have with KU? It is often said by many that KU is Kansas City's NBA a team or fourth sports team.
It seems KU draws from both sides of the state line?
I guess some think Wiggins sucks ???
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That's not really the luck I'm talking about, but yea I get your point.
I marvel at threads like this one.
Winning the championship is just as much luck as it is, players, and coaching. It really is. How many times has the favorite or the best team won it all? Was Florida the last favorite to win it all?
Well I'll go on a limb. If this KU team continues to grow and gets better, and can find a few breaks. Then sit back and enjoy the ride, because a trip to the championship game will be in the order.
I understand your point. However you can't just dismiss the danger of this trade for Cleveland. They could be left holding the bag, and mud on their face. The same if's we want to apply to Wiggins can be applied to James and Love.
Will an aging James have enough left in the tank to make the Finals? After all look at his minutes per game. Will Love be ok being the third wheel on this team? Remember both James and Love can both leave after this season.
Though I respect you love the trade, however I will have to disagree with the concept this was a no-brainer. Cleveland is indeed risking a lot on this trade.
You know you like to point out that we don't know what to expect from Wiggins yet. Well I think he's showing us he's going to be pretty good. ')
You proclaim this was a great trade, yet we don't even know if Love and James will be in Cleveland next year. :P (unless somebody inked a new deal here lately). So if Cleveland doesn't win the championship, James decides to opt out and Love doesn't resign. Then what? Cleveland is then left with nothing but a ball hogging point guard. This deal could very well blow up in Cleveland's face. They very well could've gambled away the future of their franchise. :o
Still think that's a good trade? You don't get to play the We don't know what Wiggins is card and proclaim the trade was a no-brainer. There is a lot of if's and buts in this whole deal. B| However there is and old saying we're there is smoke there is fire.
When this trade first reared it's ugly face, most people were like no-brainer. Yet the tide is changing, and more info has been processed, the stage is offering up insights to this trade. Some are starting to change their mind.
Bottom-line when you offer up everything in the house and your grandma too for a run at a championship. You can lose everything and have nothing show for your no-brainer trade. (Poor Grandma '( )
Interesting conversation. Just for the record I'm all for KU running a little more of the 4 and 1 type of offense. For one thing I believe we do have the pieces to run it well.
However I'm not all for the helter skelter type of game it can bring. 4 and 1 breeds the run and gun philosophy. I'm trying to remember the last running team that actually cut down the nets? Not sure I like that.
A team has to play to their strengths and this KU has to many weapons on the outside to play outside in. ;) Just glad HCBS sees the writing on the wall.
However we can't forget about the inside game. Live by the three die by it. However DoubleDD is happy. ') Just saying.
Another aspect is King James might not even stay? Imagine that you trade away a future star to kiss the ass of King James an aging star that divorced you once and might do it again.
I get why the trade was made but I still don't agree with it. Think about it these kids are really drafted on potential, and Wiggins was called the next great coming of potential. Yet when they get drafted they are traded like bail bounds ???
It's like poker in that you look at your cards to see what you got, before you bet. That's all I'm saying. It's so rare to find a franchise player, that I don't know how you don't take a look before you pull the trigger on any deal.
However as @Crimsonorblue22 said, I'm glad Wiggins is a TimberWolve.
LOL Not sure but I know a hair cut makes me feel like a new man. ')
Ah were just getting old my friend. ') I want to see the Mohawk. LOL
You're a prude. ') Oubre hair is bad to the bone. :)
You know it brother, I'm with you.
It's a solid case you make. However lets not forget Selden had four blocks? With my hands in the air I say I don't have an answer. :)
I guess all I can say is we KU fans are blessed that we have so much talent. B|
I guess the real question is could BGreene carry the ice cold touch if he was starting? You know as well as I do. Starting and coming of the bench are two different things......
Oh no my friend I totally understand the argument. Also lets not forget before the season started I was on record as saying BGreene was going to be a stud. :) (When some weren't so sure)
However lets raise a couple of points here. Any other team except maybe UK (and that's a maybe) BGreene has to start. Yet here in KU land I'm not so sure. Now I know we're talking about just increasing his minutes not starting, but how do we increase is minutes unless we send somebody to the bench?
I have no qualms saying if BGreene is open the shot is going in (as I'm already celebrating when the ball leaves his hand). He is a great shooter maybe the best but that's all he is. He doesn't create and lacks on the defense side of the ball. However I have to admit he's getting better. (A lot better) Yet that raises the question who do we send to the bench?
I wouldn't argue BGreene needs more minutes or even needs to start, but the question who goes to the bench? Also BGreene is a catch on the fly kind of shooter. Opposing coaches can X and O against that all day. Until BGreene can create his own shot (as his defense is acceptable) he needs to be the first man off the bench.
Just for conversation sake who would you sit?
Seen the same replay, not sure agree. I guess the question is what is considered in the cylinder? Not saying your wrong my friend. The play just left ??? marks in my warped mind.
LOL Damn it now I have to wipe off the beer from my computer screen. LOL