🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@Kcmatt7 yeah a lot of folks where hoping Mitch would be a factor but I was skeptical. Maybe it's the mask affecting him, May be its not. Still have no idea why Dwight left. He would have been our third big and got plenty of minutes. All this "he thought Mitch was ahead of him" doesn't hold much weight right now.

@Crimsonorblue22 doesn't seem right but that is the case at all the Wichita area schools (WSU, butler community college, Newman and friends). Even if you have a scholarship you have to pay for the summer. Maybe things are different elsewhere.

@Crimsonorblue22 agreed. Especially after the diallo debacle. I'm not understanding what summer school has to do with it. Is summer school at WKU part of the scholarship? I think students have to pay out of pocket for summer classes at all Kansas colleges\universities.

Does anyone know if the ncaa has ever granted a waiver to a player that wants to transfer before the school year starts but has already practiced with the team?

@brooksmd he and Billy would play quite a bit together. Mitch would be the safety net as the fourth big.

@BShark saw that he is making an unofficial visit to KU. Maybe there's a chance? To me it would be a no brainer between LSU and KU. Better team, better coaching, best home court in all of sports and a chance to win a title. Can't do any of that at LSU.

@BShark or Bagley. Long shots for both but you never know

I like it - a bold prediction! Even with a somewhat thin frontcourt we still have all the pieces. I mean, did Villanova have four 6'10 all Americans in the post when they won it all? Did uconn not once but twice? The answer is no. Like last year, we can make it work and still be in as position to win it all.

As far as I can tell, there is no Gonzaga or UNC this year that would exploit our lack of depth. Louisville is tall but not particularly talented. Michigan State and Duke are not very big at all. Arizona and Kentucky are the two with the most size and talent but I don't think either is at the level that Gonzaga or UNC were last year.

If our guards play well, we will be just as good as last year. If Dok and Billy play well, this will be the best team since 08. Probably won't be better but I think the potential is there to be the best team come March.

@Kcmatt7 I was out of town and I didn't watch the games just the highlights but I think Dok does have a good hook shot/running hook. Saw him score last year b2b numerous times with those moves. Not sure what happened but just saying what I have seen him do before.

I'll try to watch a replay of the game to see what actually was occurring defensively compared to last year. People typically blamed our defensive problems, erroneously imo, on Landen when in fact our perimeter players were allowing all sorts of blowbys and stuff like that. I'm still hoping to see improvement in that area this year. It puts a lot less pressure on our interior players if our guards play actual defense.

Ok time to shift back to basketball lol

@justanotherfan good post. People overestimate poke a dok, imo.

@BShark don't forget hook shots for Dok. We need some b2b points.

I was hoping much more would have been done over the past few months to improve his mechanics. Even with a hurt left hand he still could and should have worked on his form.

What you do is first show him what proper form is (follow through, set height, etc) and have him first master a close to the basket bank shot with proper form. Once he can do that, you turn it into a jump shot and move out. This isn't rocket science and it really makes me question how the staff addresses the fundamentals. Simply no reason for it to be this bad. None whatsoever. What was he working on all this time? Was there not a coach there or even a teammate to notice a lack of progress? Very strange indeed.

On "poke a Doke". To intentionally foul someone more than three or four times per game is not a good strategy from a coaching perspective. Unless you have five really good bigs, fouls will mount quickly and it gets the other team closer to the bonus, which in turn is a benefit to the other players who drive the lane and attack and are better shooters.

The only time we would see it is at the end of a game, but even then he may not be in the game.

I am not worried about him getting intentionally fouled. In fact, if teams want to do that more than four times a game, that benefits our team.

@jaybate-1.0 man I hope you're right! We are in real need of another solid post man.

He has filed for reclassification, per cbs sports. I think he is probably going to Duke, but he would get all the pt he would like here.

Im all for this and I would be willing to help with the technical stuff if need be.

Bagley just completed a trip to Duke this weekend. He is planning on visiting USC and Arizona soon. Important to not that if he wants to reclassify, which would make him eligible for the 2018 draft, both Arizona and USC are out of scholarships, taking them out of contention for him. Duke would probably be in the lead, with Kentucky and us behind them. I still see no harm in going after him if he wants to reclassify, which financially for him is a good move. He wouldn't have to wait an extra year for a contract.

@Kcmatt7 most people are very critical of Svi but they never take the time to realize how young he is. Fans of other teams think this too and say how he is overrated. Hopefully he will be more aggressive this year, not necessarily looking to shoot more, but also looking to drive and dish. I've been watching past games and I was reminded that he is capable of being a really good slasher. I watched the game against Vanderbilt in Maui and he had some nice moves. Need to see more of that with the absence of Frank and JJ.

@jaybate-1.0 all the talk last summer was how Devonte has improved and would be a candidate for NPOY. That didn't happen of course, but now I think we have two candidates:Newman and Graham. Has a school ever had two players of the year in a row? I still am not convinced that he was hurt all last year like you are, but I do think he deferred to Frank, as coach has said.

Yes, I know. It will be half traditional half four out. It will work if our guards play good defense.

@drgnslayr I also like playing four guards IF those guards are really good defensively. Im just not sure our current guards are good enough outside of Devonte. Villanova was the best college example of playing four out one in, but each one of those guards were defensive savants.

I would much rather see the traditional two posts, which Bill said he was going to do. Maybe its just him talking again, but I think we will see it if he can snag another post man, preferably someone around 6-10 or 6-11.

@Crimsonorblue22 sounds like he has some good skills. I think we should give him a try. Better than only having three bigs. Unless of course Bill gets Bagley to commit.

@BShark good size at 6-10. I say go for it.

@BShark It might remain vacant or it might not. Self said they were going to try to find someone. You never know.

@approxinfinity Is Svi good enough to get 25 points any night AND defend another 4 AND rebound well? I think we should stick with playing two posts. Defense last year was atrocious at times and that was with a great talent like Josh at the four. I doubt Svi is good enough to do it, plus his 6-5 wingspan would really hurt his effectiveness at the 4.

@Texas-Hawk-10 most likely, yes. Still plenty of pt for the three of them.

@KUSTEVE I hope so too. He struggled against height and was almost useless against Kentucky and Baylor. Besides growing two inches, not sure what he can do to compensate for that disparity.

Honestly, I want to play traditional 3-2, not this other stuff. A balanced inside outside team is the hardest to beat in college. Yes, the nba is moving away from traditional centers, but the nba is different than college and size still rules here.

@Kcmatt7 Yes, but Dok and Billy arent going to play all of the available 80 minutes in the post. We need a third reliable big and Bagley could play 25 to 30 minutes. I just dont think Mitch is our third big this year, at least he shouldnt be. Bagley would get plenty of pt, that isnt the issue.

I say we go after Deontae from ISU. I don't think he has committed anywhere and he was one of the best players in the valley. Good size and athleticism too.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I saw a quote from his dad where he said they were planning on visiting all the schools on his, including KU. Did I miss something or just typical internet rumors?

Im hearing from certain folks that there was some sort of attitude issue with Whitman. Honestly wish he hadnt left as we need more size and girth than what Mitch offers. I like the guy and he will be a great four year player, but he doesnt have the size to compete against taller, more athletic and more talented teams. Maybe someone else will come around, but it will be a challenge to play more traditional Self ball, which is better and more effective than last years style, given that the personell is still similar. On top of that, Dok will need to learn how to stag out of foul trouble, and there will be games when he gets fouls early. Billy, talented but still a freshman, and undersized Mitch do not sound like a tremendous pair for long periods. I can only wonder why we cant get a slew of tall and athletic bigs like in the past. Just going to have to hope Self will find someone quickly.

@Lulufulu I agree, kind of strange. Youd think he knew the situation before committing. In foul situations, he would have played a bit, especially with our front court already being a little green as it is. We would be absolutely loaded if Bagley comes. One can dream right?

@Texas-Hawk-10 eh, I dont know about alienating Preston. Bill hasnt turned down talent that Im aware of, especially at a position that is thin. We need more than just Dok and Billy, not sure if Mitch is able to contribute adequately against the upper echelon teams. We need someone with more size. If, and yes its a big if, Marvin Bagley is interested, no way should we ever turn him down. Ever.

Are there any footers out there available? You cant have too many footers.

It really would have been nice to have four bigs. We saw how valuable quality post depth is. If Self is willing to take Bagley, then it would be a good problem to have, but I doubt he is coming. Most likely he is going to Duke. Any word on other quality, experienced post men?

@Texas-Hawk-10 agreed. Is there even a decent chance we get Grimes? Seems like landing some of the top recruits to fill "needs" has not always been a for sure thing.

@mayjay it's whatever you think "didn't show up" means. To me, that can absolutely mean a bad night, but lets not quibble over trivialities. The point is, the EE performances have sucked and there is an obvious trend - you can call it and describe it however you like.

@mayjay I'm with you on Carlton. His case is baffling and it's for the best that he's gone.

Where you are wrong is the portion where you say people blame the losses on lack of effort and Devontes 0-7 night. I don't ever recall someone saying lack of effort, but when a 40% three point shooter goes 0-7, that's going to hurt the team. Even if he made his average and made three of those, that changes the entire complexition of the game.

That goes back to the question - why do Bills teams seem to routinely have inexplicably terrible performances in the elite eight? What I'm suggesting is that their entire mentality takes on a "not to lose" mind set, making everyone tight. That's why shots don't fall, see 07 against UCLA, 11 against VCU and last season against Oregon, along with other bad showings in 08 and 16.

But eventually he's going to make it to the final four. Devonte is the type of player that can lead the team over the top and overcome the mental block, imo. We shall soon find out.

@BeddieKU23 Yes, I heard Bill say in an interview that Devonte has gotten better. I would like to see him show improvement in three areas. 1. Ball handling/protection - honestly, he was not that great at it this past year but there's no reason he hasnt improved it 2. Driving the lane - I think he was too passive in this area and 3. Defense - which was discussed earlier.

@Texas-Hawk-10 sometimes the losses have been from a result of playing not to lose - IMO, 2007, 2011 and 2017. For last year, KU missed way too many open threes or threes they normally make for me to think it had much to do with Oregon. I mean, how many times has Devonte gone 0-7? I dont recall another game where that has happened. They beat themselves.

@Kcmatt7 but its much more reliable to give up closer to 60 rather than 70. You have more room for an off game with a stiffer defense.

@wissox I think you are right wissox. I like the suggestion someone had on another thread that we schedule more difficult non con road games. Yes, I am fully aware of how "top notch" our schedule is, but we are also not getting the results in March that we all want. Why can't we play more at Duke, or Villanova or Michigan State? Seems like it could only help rather than harm.

In order to have a great defensive team, or at least a very good defensive team, it all starts with the individual players. Average defenders will never form a very good or great defense. Just not happening. Each has to have the necessary positioning knowledge and lateral quickness in order to be effective at stopping the opposing player from getting to where he wants to be. Some defenders, like Mario and Russell Robinson, were extremely adept at being disruptive not only with positioning but also with their hands, poking away passes and getting deflections that in turn made life miserable for the opposition. This individualistic philosophical fact about defense MUST be present before larger collective strategies can be employed.

We all know and remember just how effective the 08 team's collective and individual defensive prowess was - "Help the helper's helper". That's fine and dandy.

Villanova and Oregon were brought up in the other thread as well. There are only a few coaches whose systems give Bill a problem, and those two, along with West Virginia and Michigan State, give him the most problems. For some reason, those styles of play have elements (body composition and attitude of players, defensive schemes, etc) that promote difficulties for our coach to combat. A few months ago, I recommended that we start recruiting the types of players that give us trouble, but I doubt that will ever happen, and it doesn't necessarily have to.

I will offer a prediction. We have lost in Morgantown the last four years and each of those years (minus the Stanford loss) has resulted in a defeat at the hands of a similar team to West Virginia. This year, in spite of the absence of numerous players, WVU stil has Jevon Carter, Lemonte West, Elijah Macon and Esa Ahmad, all players that have given our guys fits the last few years. If we can secure a W in Morgantown, then I predict we will be headed to the final four. Why? Because it proves that our guys can compete successfully against tough, talented and defensive minded systems with HOF level coaches, something they have been unable to do the last few years.

Now the summary of our present roster. The last really good or very good defensive team Self had was the 2012-2013 team. Yes, they had a bad mid season slump, but every team goes through that. I advise you all to watch, assuming it is still there, their home game against K State from 2013. Their defensive level is a bit higher than the past three or four years and it is plainly obvious. Yes, I know about the rule changes and what not. But rule changes have zippo, zilch natta to do with good positioning and active hands. Let's stop making excuses for bad mechanics and fundamentals and say that the past few years have been under our, and Self's, normal standard.

It seems to me that after the mass exodus of the 2013 team that the defensive aptitude of the players Self recruited was lacking. And this is a very bad trait, IMO, to lack. Texas Hawk is correct - defense wins championships. In college basketball, I can think of a bunch of teams that went to the final four that relied primarily on toughness and defense, but I can't think of many that went there with primarily offense. And no, you should not reference Roy. If you haven't noticed, even he has amped up the level of D his teams play at, and it became noticeable to me in his 2009 championship team, and plain as day in 2016 and 2017, which by the way was his THIRD time taking a team to back to back final fours.

In order to see a title for this upcoming season, it all starts with Devonte's defense out front. His lateral quickness and agility, at least to me, has always seemed a bit short of where a point guard should be. I am not aware of how Bill teaches individual defense and how he relates lateral quickness to defensive aptitude, but I would imagine that he works on it. If Devonte and Svi don't get it together, there will be no title this year. Probably not even a final four. That's just how important it is for success. But there is little reason that I can think of why it can't be better, as in holding teams to 65 or fewer ppg, as Texas Hawk pointed out.

Like I said before in the "We Need a Title" thread, this next year is very important. We have a good combination of balance and experience plus three players that are capable of being first team all americans and/or Big 12 player of the year in Graham, Newman and Dok, each with an outside chance of NPOY. We have shooters, tons of offense, legit post presence, rebounding, shot blocking and speed. All we need now is some perimeter D and we are set to go.

@approxinfinity I agree with you. Im open to discussing any topic. Nothing wrong with conversing amongst people you know and appreciate.

@brooksmd no, I clearly stated that Bill is our guy. I also said that I think and am hopeful he will figure out the Elite Eight puzzle sooner rather than later. His teams have been close the last few years and I believe if they get there again this coming year they will finish the job.

@DoubleDD there are just too many unknowns with Billy and Dok to know how they would stack up. Do they have the potential to match the 08 team in the post? Absolutely. I think Rush is a definite upgrade over Svi. No question. Now if we're talking Josh Jackson, well I would take him over Rush any day without a second thought.

Maybe I'm still after almost ten years disillusioned by their thrashing and domination of Roy in 08. That was them playing their best game of the year, and they normally did not play at that level, or else they would have finished the season 40-0.

I hope this year's team can come close to 08 - that would mean a final four and possibly a championship. I'm skeptical because no team since has executed or defended at that level. The east coast media ignores them, but the 08 team is one of the best since the new millenium. I mean, outside of Kentucky in 2015, what team is there that you can say "Oh yeah, that team was better than 08"? I can't think of one.

@bskeet the only way to get better and accomplish more is to be critical and evaluative of the past. I personally believe that the tournament is not nearly as much of a crap shoot as some make it out to be. Whenever a coach's teams over a long period of time keep having losses in the same round in the same fashion, one naturally comes to the conclusion that there is something going on.

Even at the beginning of the Oregon game, you could tell that our guys didnt have the same energy or speed as Oregon and looked nothing like the team from the previous three rounds.

Why? I think it is because of the pressure they feel which leads to feeling tight.

I should point out that I was not meaning that coach would leave for the NBA, but rather how much longer he has til retirement. I would say about ten or twelve years.

@KUSTEVE I too hope that he cracks the code. Kind of disappointing to see how well Roy has done since leaving, having amassed as many titles by himself as KU has in its history (Helms dont count). But all it takes is a title or two to change everyone's perception of him, not just in comparison to other current coaches, but also historically. I am feeling confident that he will grt there this year.

Even if this years team matched their potential, I dont think that would be good enough. When the 08 team was playing loose and relaxed with no pressure, I would have to go way back to find a team that would beat them in a series. How many teams have beat two other national champions and been champions themselves? They would smoke the Duke teams in 10 and 15, Uconns teams in 11 and 14, would probably beat the Unibrow but the biggest challenge of recent champions would be Villanova. They had the largest margin of victory of any national championship team.

Dok is not at the point where he would be a problem for Kaun, Arthur and Jackson, especially on double teams when a guard like Chalmers comes down from a wing or from behind. Graham, Newman and Vick would not be able to handle Chalmers, Robinson and Collins.

I'd say the 08 team would win by 15.