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HawkChamp
3175 posts
We Need a Title • Jul 13, 2017 10:21 PM

I have been saying over the course of the past three months that the 2018 team will have as good of a shot at a title as any in the past six years, if the players contribute in expected ways. The balance should be as good as it was in 2011 and 2008. We have speed, length, shot blocking and post presence.

But some people just have hurdles placed in their lives, for whatever reason, that are a major factor in preventing success. I'm sure we all know of someone that has such challenges, as we all most likely have those as well. For one William Self, the elite eight is the bane of his existence. He even admitted as such this past year prior to the Oregon game that it is the hardest round of the tournament.

The truth is, that statement proves everything I have thought for years - Bill Self gets a little tight. You might not be able to see it from your sofa hundreds of miles away, but the team in shootaround, the locker room and the pre game meal is feeling it. Bill thinks it is the hardest round, therefore it is.

I don't know how much longer Bill is going to be around at KU. Will he coach till he is 65? 70? I wouldn't bet on it. Squandered isn't the right word, but three or four really good chances at bringing home the university's fourth or even fifth title have been squandered. Coincidentally, with exception of 2010 (hard to count 2013), every one of those teams has fallen in the "hardest round". And its always the same reason, right? "We just shot poorly" is the reason given, almost without a second thought.

But the analytical watcher and one who has given time to reflect on all this will pose the question: is there a correlation amongst all these elite eight losses? Is it possible that there really is pressure on Bill and he, perhaps unwittingly, passes it on to the team? How do teams with multiple great shooters all of a sudden become terrible? And no, despite opinions that shooting comes and goes in short periods of time in rather dramatic fashion (don't want to mention names but his profile reads Jaybate), I have a very hard time believing it. As a shooter in high school myself, who, not to brag but I was regarded as perhaps the best at my 4A school by an assistant coach, did not experience such a phenomenon as described by some, I whole heartedly dismiss such flimsy conjectures on the point. A sample size of various teams over the course of ten years, coupled with those teams also experiencing the lowest scoring output of their respective years, proves that these occurrences all have one thing in common - Bill Self. The only year where I would say it was more than nerves or it was some other cause would be against Villanova, as in a one possession we had, IIRC, six more turnovers than them, which is a significant amount.

I love having Bill here and I don't want to see him leave. BUT, he has to figure this out. He needs to figure out what went well in the 2012 elite eight game and try to improve things this next year.

From the looks of things, KU will be at the top for the third year in a row. I believe Arizona, WSU, KU, Michigan State and maybe some other team will prove to be the best teams this coming year. I like our chances once again and I think that Bill will eventually sort this out. He is too smart and cunning to let this go on forever. But if he doesnt, maybe its time a player, like a Devonte Graham who has plenty of moxy, puts the team on his back and says "I'm tired of losing in the elite eight and we're going to make it this year to the final four." Devonte has the Ryan Boatwright/Kemba Walker/Shabazz Napier court attitude. I've been saying this for a while now. People around on other boards have said that Devonte is just a good senior player, nothing more. But like dragonslayer pointed out a few months ago, Devonte is the real key to March. We saw how good he was leading up to the Oregon game, and how brilliant he was against Purdue.

This year's team has all the pieces, if it can put them together. We have senior leadership, capable scorers, shooters, decent depth in the post and a seven footer that isn't going to let someone like Jordan Bell own the paint. Because of Dok, I think our team defense should also reflect his shot blocking prowess and rim protection, but we still need better perimeter defense. Last year, Svi and Devonte were probably the worst we had and they will be counted on to perform. If they don't guard well, it doesn't matter who is back waiting at the rim. It puts the team in a bad decision when there are breakdowns one on one and can lead to foul trouble for both forwards and guards. Hopefully someone on the team noticed this glaring problem from last year and they have been working on it all summer. We'll see in a few months.

@JayHawkFanToo Yep. Not sure what he/she is talking about

@wrwlumpy thanks for the link and update

@Texas-Hawk-10 "not a good enough shooter to be a stretch four".
What??? Perry was a complete boss at hitting outside shots his senior year. Not good enough compared to who?

HOW BILL SOLVED THE RUBIK'S CUBE • Jun 27, 2017 08:18 PM

@HighEliteMajor against oregon, from the tip, our guys did not have the same energy and intensity as oregon. It was painfully obvious. Twice now a zone or matchup zone has contributed to our elite eight loss - you know, the thing bill doesn't believe in. It would be nice to see him use something to that effect.

HOW BILL SOLVED THE RUBIK'S CUBE • Jun 27, 2017 01:22 PM

@JayHawkFanToo it's never the coach, yet his teams, which means different players same result, keep having their worst offensive performance of the year in the elite eight. 07, 08, 11, 16 and 17. We got fortunate in 08. You know why they played better in 2012 in the elite eight? They weren't tight. When Bill doesn't feel tight, his team isn't tight. Those terrible performances keep happening for a reason. Maybe this year will be different....

HOW BILL SOLVED THE RUBIK'S CUBE • Jun 27, 2017 03:42 AM

@HighEliteMajor careful! Saying it's all luck will get you in trouble! Lol

We can't hang on to 08 forever, even though it was perhaps our best KU hoops memory. Sooner or later, Self will need to get the job done again. Can't keep making excuses - at some point we need results.

Mitch to have a Huge Huge Role • Jun 21, 2017 01:22 PM

@dylans Agreed. Really is useless to quibble over the EXACT amount when it is silly that some of these people get paid so much for having a part in a game that involves putting a little ball in a hoop. It is pretty ridiculous when you think about it. Sure, we all love it and watch it a lot but really? Tens of millions of dollars? Things are bad all across the country and the world and this sort of money is involved in entertainment? Doesn't seem right but that is how it is and it is unlikely to change anytime soon.

Now The Real Fun Begins: May Rotation Talk • Jun 20, 2017 12:45 AM

@REHawk I think some are still caught up in "what are we going to do without Frank and Josh?". It's all about overall team talent and balance. There was very little balance last year after Dok went out with the injury. Even though the games haven't started yet, I feel as though this team under Self, who has really shown a superb skill at making adjustments (as if we thought he wasn't any good) is definitely a title contender. The Italy trip should really help team cohesion and a W over Kenstinky would be a great start to the year. As usual, West Virginia will be our main competition. Will this be the year our losing streak finally ends in Morgantown?

Now The Real Fun Begins: May Rotation Talk • Jun 20, 2017 12:39 AM

@BShark yep. No doubt about it.

Lets not worry about that yet. Hard to tell how each player is going to shoot months before the games are played. We will know by big 12 play how skilled of a shooting team it will be.

VIDEO FROM YESTERDAY"S SCRIMMAGE • Jun 08, 2017 06:30 AM

After watching the video, I feel good about this next year. As I have been saying, the summer trip will really help kick start team chemistry, cohesiveness, play running, etc. Would be nice to start out with a W over Cal's uber hyped group of freshman. @Kcmatt7 - that's called Dok not playing for six months and he had little experience prior to that. He's the one that will benefit the most from the trip as he will learn what he can and can't do.

I have heard a lot of bad stuff about Billy regarding his work ethic from internet coaches, but it sounds like from all reports that he is working hard to improve his understanding of what coach wants and expects on the court. Dok and Billy are our x factors. We all saw how hard it is to beat a team with good inside outside balance (Gonzaga and UNC). Yes, playing small is in vogue, but at the college level, inside outside is king and is what I am looking forward to seeing.

I predict that this year's squad will make it back to the elite eight and this time they will finish the job. Feels like a title season to me.

VIDEO FROM YESTERDAY"S SCRIMMAGE • Jun 07, 2017 07:34 PM

@Kcmatt7 "Udoka is going to foul out of every game this season."

Based on what? He is clearly in much better shape and quicker, contrary to what our internet coaches guessed.

I think Arizona at 1 and us at 2 is pretty reasonable. I would enjoy a home and home with Arizona but I don't know the interest level for both sides. I will believe USC is a top five team when I see it - a little unproven at this point. I have seen Duke also listed as a top ten team but again I think it is probably due to their typical hype. WSU will be a legit contender next year.

Doke Update • May 26, 2017 02:58 PM

@Kcmatt7 yeah it's pretty silly. Not sure the reasoning on that.

SVI returns for senior year • May 26, 2017 02:55 AM

@drgnslayr thats what I noticed a lot last year and commented on. His focus is lacking periodically and he makes silly mistakes. Frank isnt eligible anymore, so he will need to step it up.

@Lulufulu I agree. He is going to be a problem for every team we face. Inside outside balance should be good next year - thats what made last year's Gonzaga and Unc teams tough. Teams couldnt take away an area because it would present huge problems elsewhere.

Now The Real Fun Begins: May Rotation Talk • May 25, 2017 03:43 PM

@Kcmatt7 good point. Our game with Kentucky right off the bat should be great and a good gauge of what the team is capable of.

SVI returns for senior year • May 25, 2017 12:43 AM

@Texas-Hawk-10 I have a feeling this is our year.

Ok simple • May 24, 2017 06:36 PM

@BeddieKU23 yeah theyll be loaded again. What we really need for next year is another wing player.

Transfer talk • May 24, 2017 06:27 PM

@BeddieKU23 He is a really solid player. Would be a great get since I think Svi is gone.

@BShark nice. We could use more size

@RockkChalkk how tall is Kanter?

@RockkChalkk no he hasnt. People are just assuming things. We won't know for sure until he announces.

DG news! • Apr 10, 2017 10:18 AM

@BeddieKU23 isn't Frank Jackson staying though?

DG news! • Apr 10, 2017 09:44 AM

@BeddieKU23 it isn't over until it's over, which is when Duval commits. He hasn't committed yet, so it's not over.

DG news! • Apr 10, 2017 03:18 AM

Now we need Svi to come back and sign another big man. Tilmon would be fantastic but Misery looks like his destination. But you never know. Duval or Juiston would be terrific gets as well.

@KirkIsMyHinrich I believe Carter will be graduating after this year.

Just realized: 2017 Tarheels = 2015 Royals • Apr 04, 2017 03:56 AM

Coaches can be like wine - they get better with age. Wooden and Roy are examples of that. Also, you have to have length, athleticism and balance to beat the opponent multiple ways. Roy had that the last couple years. We might have it next season.

Gonzaga vs UNC Game Thread • Apr 04, 2017 03:54 AM

@Crimsonorblue22 that's why depth is so important

Gonzaga vs UNC Game Thread • Apr 04, 2017 03:48 AM

@wissox yep. Ten year anniversary of Mario's miracle. Eventually, it will be our time to hoist the trophy again. Next year could be it

Gonzaga vs UNC Game Thread • Apr 04, 2017 03:42 AM

@approxinfinity not a bad start. Dok fits the bill.

Gonzaga vs UNC Game Thread • Apr 04, 2017 03:39 AM

It seems like Roy has started to figure out the tournament. Maybe Bill can do the same as he gets older?

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:55 PM

@KUSTEVE excellent summation.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:39 PM

@drgnslayr But on the other side, it makes it harder for the other team to score inside and we have an advantage on the other end. I like the traditional 3-2 the best, particularly when we have a stretch four. Honestly, I think there are advantages both ways but Gonzaga and UNC proved you can get to the title game playing that way.

I hope Billy can learn quickly how to play the spot because he would be huge next March if he could drive and shoot the 3 like Perry.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:32 PM

@drgnslayr Iirc, Curry had the ball and passed it up. Our guys played great defense and forced the other player to a tough 30 foot jumper.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:29 PM

@drgnslayr I agree its less about the shots and more about personnel. Bill may never get over his difficulty with coaching in the elite eight, so the only way to counter that is by having a balanced team that can lock down defensively, like the 08 team. We could have that next year and with a summer trip to boot.

If you have a guard oriented team, you have to do everything just right to win a ring. With post presence, it gives you a larger margin for error. We did not do everything right and lost.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:23 PM

@drgnslayr But we also had zero inside presence. When the shots arent falling you have to be able to do something else. I wouldnt put too much stock into that game other than how important it is to be diversified. Just think about how much better we would have fared with actual size and athleticism down low to counter Bell - would have loved to see Dok dunk on him! Oh, and defense. That has to be better next year too.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:16 PM

@drgnslayr We will have to see what Devonte does when it is "his team". Look at the two teams playing for the title - each has one main point guard that they rely on. I think Devonte is capable of doing that as well.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:10 PM

@drgnslayr I see what you're saying, but that leadership did no good two years in a row against Oregon and Nova. I am starting to think that some of that is a little overrated. Basketball is never about one player even if that player is the POY.

At some point, you have to have the talent, length and athleticism to overcome Bill's usual stuff in the elite eight. Doke, Malik and Devonte will be the best players on next years team - thats pretty dang good trio to build around. Svi and Lagerald both did some very good things in the tourney that keeps me hopeful that they can replicate those things. Cunliffe is another 40% three gun plus more length. He will benefit from the summer trip immensely. Billy is a stretch four and could be a good compliment to Doke. Coleby provides more muscle and rebounding.

We could have more depth, height, shooting and athleticism than this past year - a larger margin of error. Hopefully we can dish out to our opponents what Oregon and Nova did to us instead of being on the receiving end of it.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:01 PM

@drgnslayr Yeah it is disappointing. Everyone keeps saying "no one can run with Carolina". Sorry, but our guys would have.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 10:00 PM

@drgnslayr And only three titles (I dont count Helms titles) We are falling behind and have had several great opportunities under both Roy and Self to win one or two more. If all goes well this off season, 2018 is our year.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 09:55 PM

@drgnslayr Wasnt it because he didnt want to recruit against Dean Smith? I like Roy, but it is maddening to think that he could win his third title at UNC but couldnt win a single one with us. Mental block? Not enough talent? Not sure what it is. The 02 and 03 teams were super good.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 09:25 PM

@BShark yeah, I dont expect Doke to be at that level but he has the potential to completely dominate the paint. He will be "the man" at the 5 next year, so he will learn how to stay out of foul trouble and be in better shape.

We SHOULD have so many options next year that Cunliffe wont feel pressured to make a play. If he could just play solid defense, get four or five rebounds a game and make some open threes, that will be just what we need for a title run.

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 09:04 PM

@BShark For Davis and Okafor I was referring to the impact they had on the game. Davis was not really a prolific scorer, and we dont know what Doke can do B2B wise for a full game. He has a nice hook shot and a running hook, both of which he used this past season several times.

Cunliffe this next year will be a more athletic and quicker version of Brennan Greene, though I think his athleticism will allow him to drive to the goal. He will play because otherwise we will be too thin on the perimeter even if both Graham and Svi stay (which they should).

Roy: Master of Illusion • Apr 02, 2017 07:53 PM

@JayHawkFanToo if everyone stays, we will be on more equal footing with the other top programs in terms of talent. I am looking forward to seeing what Doke can do when he is fully acclimated to D1 ball. He has the type of Okafor/Davis type ability to be the x factor that leads us to a ring. Our inside outside balance could be spectacular. It appears as though Cunliffe and Newman are really good shooters, so we could have five three point perimeter threats plus Billy. The summer trip should really help our new players/transfers to learn more about the system and gel together.

@jaybate-1.0 I like it! If everyone stays, I really like our chances.

KU Players Leaving/Staying Tracker • Apr 02, 2017 07:32 AM

@kjayhawks didnt his mom say he was going to Italy? He should stay and be a part of a potentially dynamite team.

Final Four Game Thread • Apr 02, 2017 04:35 AM

@kjayhawks +1000

Final Four Game Thread • Apr 02, 2017 03:30 AM

@dylans Worry not my brother. We'll be back in the elite eight next year and get the job done.