🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JayHawkFanToo - You said, "This leaves Duke and KU, although the Squid might have some salary cap left and you never know how and when he will use it."

Just scanning some posts .. busy at work; but the salary cap comment is a PHOF for sure.

@JayHawkFanToo No, I agree with you points. I am not presuming that when we don't get a player, we haven't recruited him hard enough. This is a hard game we're engaged in. Sometimes the pieces don't fall right. Sometimes we would have never won the battle with a kid no matter what we would have done.

I am making the assumption, based on Self's prior recruiting history, that when he wants to land top players in the 15- 80 range, and he puts his mind to it, he's going to get a reasonable share of them. I believe that this year's OAD pursuit has distracted from that mission.

@joeloveshawks You said, "I truly hate being negative on this board but if our starting lineup next year includes either Jamari or Lucas I may cry."

I hate say this too, but I feel about Jamari's minutes like I did about Brady's minutes -- from a purely business perspective, if Jamari were to be deemed ineligible to play, and never set foot on the court next season, we would be a better team because of it. I believe that would have been the case last season, I believe it to be true for next season.

@jaybate-1.0 I think this is really easier than it seems. But first, if it is truly the same goals, then it is not adidas dictating. I am presuming that Self has his own free will.

The issue before us is not Duke, or UK, or adidas, or anyone else. It is selfishly Kansas. And only Kansas. What is best for Kansas?

The point you made Self and adidas, "He wants the best players. They do too. They have the same goals."

This is the classic disconnect. What is the better player for Kansas? Cliff Alexander or Thomas Robinson? Cheick Diallo or Cole Aldrich? Kelly Oubre or Travis Releford? Andrew Wiggins or Andrew White? Stephen Zimmerman or Markieff Morris? Henry Giles or Marques Bolden?

What is the best player for Kansas?

There is no press conference needed. Though if employed as Self's speech writer, I would be happy to assist. But Self need not announce his intentions. He certainly should continue efforts toward presumed OADs as it would be certainly unwise to ignore that group. It would also be impossible because recruiting begins so early - hard to pin down the presumed OADs.

What I'm talking about is the nuance of the offer and guarantee, if you will. Taking a Bolden now. Perhaps taking 20-80 ranked PF now. Committing to them. Guaranteeing them -- not playing time, but their place in the recruiting pecking order based. But very importantly, use your "guarantees" based on recruiting leverage. Some situations will call for more, others less. Build your house that way. And using the OAD as the back-up plan -- not necessarily by word but by deed. Stay in the game, but stay in the game on your terms. If there is an OAD that is a particular fit, who you really connect with, then sure, that can be part of the plan. That will be rare in this day of recruiting. Everyone has their hooks in. But very importantly, and in nearly all instances, avoid the protracted competition into the spring that costs you other recruits.

Of course, there is no reason why you can't engage in such a competition if you have quality recruits locked down and such a pursuit does not violate the promises you made to those locked up.

See, the "great" players are the ones we remember, not the ones that treat Kansas as a pit stop. We aren't talking the same language using the term "great." Wiggins wasn't "great." Not even close.

@REHawk said:

In my not so humble opinion, the Jayhawks will be as good as Perry's knee. Unless those hip spurs were a really serious factor, I don't see Brannen Greene EVER fitting in well to Bill Self Basketball. His motion counterflows...upstream. Selden? Which Wayne will make a show? A dependable nightly show? And can Svi live up to his billing? Seemed like something of a waste, sitting idle after Christmas break last season. Maybe practice-time challenges elevated his game while visits with Hudy and co. sculpted his physique? Time will tell. I sure liked the way he moved the ball before Christmas. Mason and Graham? I've no skepticism re those two...so long as Mason's legs hold up. And from recent photo clips of his work in the weight room, his knees looked strong as iron. Gotta trust that both Lucas and Mickelson take giant steps up the ladder of improvement. At least one of them bound to make significant gain. I still crave the energy of Diallo. Like a pistol in a waistband, he is a certified difference maker.

I really like your post. On Ellis, I'm confident that his knee will be 100%. I'm pretty sure he's 100% right now. It's the type of injury that is easily compensated with by use of a brace. Based on what we saw, this was most likely a grade I sprain. Self said before the NCAA tourney that Ellis was "getting his explosion back." You don't get that back in that timeframe, unless it was just a grade I sprain. Relatively minor injury to deal with once he got two weeks out from the injury. For next season, there is no worry. Heck, if he tore his ACL in February, it would be reasonable to think he would be 100% by the start of the season -- think Branden Rush tearing his ACL in May, then returning the next season.

And I agree on Greene. I don't see him fitting with Bill Self basketball. How much will Bill Self basketball change? Greene could be an incredible force. It all depends on how he's used. For my money, if he's not shooting threes, I don't have much of a use for him in Self's system otherwise.

Selden and Svi are crucial questions. I'm positive in both regards.

I do disagree with you on Lucas and Mickelson. I would say mini-steps. It's hard to imagine either taking big leaps. And with Mickelson, how does he get on the floor? I noticed you avoided Traylor.

But this coming season rides very much on what coach Self has planned for this team. All predictions need to be qualified. If we play Self's system, here's prediction #1. If not, then predictions #2, #3, etc. based on possible changes.

@ralster - We've said it a million times. Self values experience. Self many times appears impatient with inexperience. He will bench guys for system mistakes, or more regularly, for taking the wrong shot, at the wrong time. While he has moderated slightly on that, it's still in his DNA. There was one game this season where he benched 5 or 6 guys in a row, during a short stretch of time, for misplays. The longer term guys generally just fit with coach Self better. It's that simple. Our best functioning teams have those type of guys in the primary roles.

@BeddieKU23 I can't disagree on Herard. The key is whether one could be the "high" in the high/low. I think it would be tough, like you said, to get two true 5s in one class.

@konkeyDong Ugh. Sorry about that ... I'd rather leave the recruiting stuff to the expert. But don't let this deter you.

@drgnslayr That's a good point on locking him in (the quickest we can do it is, unfortunately, next November ... meaning signature on the dotted line). But we should try hard to get the commitment. I'm quite sure that Bolden is the one waiting. Thus the commitment needs to be reciprocal. How about this -- "Marques, we want your commitment now. You are the foundation of our 2016 recruiting class. We will not sign any higher rated center in 2016. Period. We have spots to fill, and have to try to sign other guys, but we will drop out of the race for the one and done centers. You are our guy." Tell me, anyone, why this does not work?

@JayHawkFanToo -- I thought the same thing on @ralster's mixed metaphor. But I think he meant it that way to make a point. But regardless, he was rolling. You know, "did we give up when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor"?

@joeloveshawks You are so right about highlights. They are to be taken with a grain of salt. My view on highlights (as I've posted before) is that they are much better when assessing specific skills. That's just my view (I know some disagreed with that). When it was most apparent was in the discussion of Joel Embiid when he signed. If you saw one of his videos, it was amazing -- great footwork, the ability to handle the ball in traffic, and an array of post moves. I became giddy. It's the reason why I became so giddy when I first got to see Svi play. The guy oozes skill. When looking at Cliff, the discussion was of his brute force, his activity, his toughness. I don't recall anyone saying, "Wow, Cliff really has moves down low." That's helped sharpen my view a bit. I was certainly convinced by Cliff's apparent force down low. I think if we aren't seeing certain skill sets, it should make one more wary. It's probably why the videos on Selden shouldn't have caused us any giddiness. There were no strong skill sets apparent, right? Further, I think that videos are much harder when assessing guards in the open floor. But with Bolden, I'm struggling to see how that sweet little hook doesn't translate. He's more skilled than any of our post men right now, except for Ellis. If Ellis was 6'11" with arms commensurate with the length of his neck, he'd already be playing in the NBA. Bolden's skills are the real deal.

@truehawk93 A couple of things on your post -- I agree with most. You compared Bolden to Lucas. Bolden does appear longer, he does appear to have better moves right now, and appears more skilled to me. I'm a Lucas fan .. as our 4th big .. maybe. Or 5th insurance big. He might get better. But Lucas, right now, is pedestrian. Best way I can say it. Serviceable, in a 7 minutes per game sort of way. Also, I think Bolden could be just a two year guy. Possibly three.

@jaybate-1.0 So you think Self HAS to go after OADs? Meaning, adidas tells him what to do?

@Blown The alcohol comparison is excellent, but demonstrates the flawed logic of the potheads.

The best argument that potheads have is the comparison to alcohol. But alcohol is one of the scourges of society. It has destroyed millions of lives. It has exacted a tremendous toll.

Yet, "it's no worse than alcohol" is what we hear from the moral equivalency crowd. And it's a relatively valid point on the surface. If this, why not that?

But of course, that's how our society has continued to go down the rat hole.

The only reason alcohol is legal is because it has a much deeper cultural history of legality. In fact, but for the brief period of prohibition, it's always been legal. It's the cultural history that makes it different than pot.

Pot, on the other hand, has really always been illegal. Further, the typical, historical pot crowd fit the stereotype. That didn't inspire any change in thinking regarding legality.

What has changed is that our society in general has deteriorated.

The fact is, our society, our lives, everything else, would be much better without pot or alcohol.

We wait anxiously the decisions by the last few presumed OADs. We're stuck. We have have no choice. The 2015 recruiting season has a thoroughly underwhelming event to this point. Kansas has, however, landed an excellent prospect in Carlton Bragg. Given the current status of our post depth, Bragg's commitment was crucial. I considered Bragg the perfect recruit.

Self didn't let Bragg escape. An excellent signing.

Marques Bolden is the next "must have" recruit -- he's a multi-year, highly talented post player. In recruiting, we may be looking for "10s" -- in reality, we seem to really want and need "5s", as in a true center. A rim protector. A back to the basket scorer. Bolden is perfection in Bill Self's world.

It gets very crucial moving forward. Even if we make the assumption that we land Cheick Diallo, Kansas will lose four post players after the 2015-16 season -- Ellis, Traylor, Mickelson and Diallo. Bragg and Lucas would remain. Even if we add Georgios Papagiannis, that's just three guys.

Enter Marques Bolden.

Bolden is 6'10", 235, and is a true center. Very importantly, Bolden is a back to the basket scorer with an array of skills. He is a long player, with an impressive wingspan. And Bolden isn't considered a presumed OAD, ranked #19 by 247sports, #19 by ESPN, and #29 by Rivals.

This recruiting story deserves our attention. Bolden is considered a pretty strong Kansas lean right now. Bolden, however, seems familiar, doesn't he? If you followed the 2015 class about this time last season, Tyler Davis, a 6'10" 270 lb center was in a similar position. Ranked in the 20-30 range, considered a strong Kansas lean -- one recruiting service had said Davis was "in the bag for Kansas" last summer. Different players to be sure, but similar status.

But leading up to Davis' commitment to Texas A&M, Kansas' OAD pursuit was in full force. It became clear that Kansas' time and resources were being focused primarily on the large group of presumed OAD post players -- Simmons, Zimmerman, Diamond, Labissiere, Jeter, Raab, Diallo -- all to varying degrees. Davis suddenly jumped ship and committed to Texas A&M. Davis seemed like a Kansas lock, if there ever was one.

Self can't let this happen with Marques Bolden.

In the class of 2016, there are fewer top big guys. Henry Giles and Udoka Azubuike are the flies in the ointment. Both are big, both are presumed OADs. The concern is that the pattern has become a protracted recruiting process for the OADs, where decisions are made very late, after the "normal" recruits have all committed. This dynamic threatens our pursuit of Bolden. It is not fatal, of course, we got Bragg ... but we need multiple guys.

And with Bragg in the stable, who will be heading into his sophomore year, there is likely room for only one starter. And we can't forget that Landen Lucas will be returning, as well, with all of his "experience." Again, as we've discussed, how does the constant pursuit of presumed OADs affect our overall recruiting efforts?

My hope is that Self makes Bolden THE priority, and that he doesn't repeat the flawed OAD pursuit of 2015. The fact is that Self will need to sign at least three bigs for 2016 (possible just two if he lands a worthy big like Georgios Papagiannis).

What strikes me most about Bolden, in what I have read, is that he appears to be highly skilled. That seems to be the consensus. So not only does he have the physical size, he's got a somewhat ready made skill package around the basket. We need that.

Below are a couple videos on Bolden. This stuff is many times of limited use. We know that. Dunks and blocks against undersized guys. Really, they're just so you can see them. But there are some nuggets. Most importantly the use of his left hand -- and he's right handed.

Here's one video on Bolden:

Here's a second video on Bolden. [Video One](

Bolden's scouting report from ESPN is below. Bolden appears to be the perfect recruit for Self's system -- a guy with skill, size, and little chance to bolt after one season. And that ever elusive back to the basket scoring. Can't let this guy get away.

Strengths:
Bolden is a long and mobile post that runs the floor extremely well. He has excellent touch in and around the lane where he can score with either hand with excellent touch and body control for his size and Bolden loves to go over his his right shoulder with his left hand although he is right handed. He also is stronger than he appears which allows him to score through contact. He rebounds well in his area and blocks shots with his great length and athletic ability. Bolden works to deny the ball out of the low post as well.

Weaknesses:
In addition to continuing to add strength, Bolden must maintain his aggressiveness, keep his motor running and get lower when he post up in order to have a stronger post to hold his position.

Bottom Line:
Bolden is a post that can score on the block, rebound and block shots. He is mobile and athletic and a high major prospect.

Self can't let Bolden get away.

@hawkmoon2020 Go for it.

@jaybate-1.0 Oubre knee injury? Where, when, what, how? Not sure what you are referring to. There was no discussion that a knee kept him of the court, was there? Additionally, I personally think you way overstate the OAD thing. Nothing has changed. Imagine Kansas last season with a third year rim protector, say the quality of Withey in his junior season here. And then assume had Andrew White. And then assume we didn't have Cliff or Oubre. We (Kansas in Self's system) would have been better -- we would have been better subtracting OADs. I am very confident of that.

@BeddieKU23 To be honest, I simply cannot imagine any coach looking at what happened last season, and doing the same thing. It is sickening to me to think that he would continue the feed the post stuff as the focus of our offense if we have Ellis, Traylor, and Lucas in primary roles down low .. guys who have unequivocally shown the inability to score effectively in that role. But then again, that's logical. It is equally concerning to think that he'd run the same four out/one in weave as a regular offense.

I think his use of the four out/one in weave signaled an acknowledgment that the feed the post focus failed. I think he used the four out/one in weave because that was all he had at the time. I am hopeful that with a full off season of consideration and time to plan, he'll come up with a better four out/one in scheme -- he need only look to WSU, or ISU, or Gonzaga.

So many things to comment on from above --

1. @5541-james: Svi won't play the 4. He's a guard, pure and simple. Some coaches might flex him and post him up. Self posted up a guard exactly one time all last season. Unless Self makes big philosophical changes, it's a non-starter. Trust me, you'll want the ball in Svi's hands on the perimeter next season.

2. @5541-james: I do wish that Lucas and Mickelson had the "size and skills" to handle the post. They are just half way there. The skill part is what is lacking. I'd much rather have Mickelson playing than Traylor. But that entire threesome is problematic and there is an argument that none of them deserve any real playing time. But as usual, a player's spot in the pecking order is relative to his competition.

3. @jaybate-1.0: The important issue for our talent is the level of functioning. You make the assumption that simply because Oubre will get drafted, he is a better player. All Oubre has is a very high ceiling. He was not near that ceiling. And that is the entire issue -- we get guys that have high ceiling, but their current level of functioning is not better than a player with experience in Self's system. It's exactly why I am completely convinced that Andrew White (as junior) would have been a better player last season than Kelly Oubre (higher ceiling, but lower level of functioning). Ingram, Brown, whoever .. go somewhere else. Let's roll the dice with our highly talented perimeter, all of whom now know our system. I'm not interested in the freshman learning curve.

4. @jaybate-1.0 You are right. If Self moves Perry to the three, he will have officially lost his mind. But he hasn't lost his mind. It won't happen. We shouldn't worry about it. We have a perimeter stacked with talent, five deep. All while our post is perilously thin, now with just Ellis and first year guy Bragg. The other post guys are as I said before -- not worthy of playing time. Why would you take Perry away from the 4 spot and shove him into a spot we have well covered? It will not happen.

5. @jaybate-1.0 Don't concern yourself with the 4/5 distinction right now. Ideally, yes, I think Self would like that 6'11" dude with long arms; the rim protector. A back to the basket scorer. But Diallo is long, and he is a rim protector. The back to the basket scorer ship has sailed (unless that Greek kid lands here, and he has those skills). With Diallo, we might have a very nice grouping of 4s that man the two post spots -- Ellis, Diallo, and Bragg. Both Bragg and Ellis can play that stretch 4 role. I firmly believe that a Diallo signing will not impact Ellis' possible time at the 3 (which is nill). Ellis will only be emergency back at the three if we have injuries. After last season's fiasco in the post, one thing I'm quite confident in is that Self won't go through that again. He'll attack things differently.

6. On the shoe thing, there were three adidas teams (Wisconsin, ND, and Louisville) in the Elite 8 (the other five were Nike). I resist the idea that you need to stack OAD talent to get to the Final Four. Louisville wasn't stacked in 2013. UConn was certainly not stacked in 2014 or 2011. Duke wasn't stacked in 2010. No winners were "stacked" with OADs ever until 2012. We now have 2 OAD national title winners in the last 4 seasons, though. Has the landscape changed? Sure, a bit. But you don't need to be stacked to get to Final Four.

7. The home run right now for Self -- Diallo and Ingram, plus the Greek kid, Georgios Papagiannis. I just don't see us getting Ingram though (or Brown, for that matter). A home run in my mind would be the two bigs, Diallo and Papagiannis. That's our need. That's our system's need.

8. If Self strikes out on Diallo and Papagiannis, our system will change. Logic demands it. Logic meaning that Self wants to win. He can't compete for a National Title relying on Traylor, Lucas and Mickelson (two of the three) as our 3rd and 4th bigs, in his system. He can compete emphasizing our perimeter talent combined with Ellis and Bragg, and using our low talent bigs in minor roles.

We discuss Calipari and how he runs his program. But we would support our coach whoring out our program for a half season guy like Maker?

I'm all about national titles. But I don't want the 2016 national title if it means cheapening our program by bringing in a guy who plays half the season. As shocking as it may seem, I'd rather wear a 2011 conference title t-shirt than have "that" attached to our program.

@dylans I would have concerns regarding chemistry and disruption. Don't we have to draw the line somewhere? A kid wants to come in a play 1/2 the season?

We would simply be whores for supposed "talent."

I'll say Perry Ellis. I think we'll see the same player next season, much as we saw pretty much the same player this season from the prior year.

In 2013-14, Ellis was 13.6 points per game, 6.7 rebounds, 1.0 assists, and .6 blocks.

In 2014-15, Ellis was 13.8 points per game, 6.9 rebounds, 1.2 assists, and .7 blocks.

Marginal improvement at best. We discussed many times that he'd be better with a real center. Well, he had a real center much of 2013-14. Numbers were a touch worse then. We pretty much know what we'll get from Perry, which is pretty darn good.

My prediction is premised on the assumption that we run the same Bill Self system offensively. If that changes, I could see Perry bump to 17-18 ppg pretty easily.

@Lulufulu I think Svi will prove exactly that .. he's the third best ball handler on the team; excellent at the post feed; has proven that he can drive and dish; plays solid D. Really, his shot just didn't go in regularly. I could see Svi being our best all around player next season (I mentioned that as well back after a first game or two this season, when I was giddy).

@justanotherfan Your post is excellent and very insightful. The unpredictability you cite makes it very difficult to game plan to stop the offense. It's no different than football. If you run the same stuff, out the same formations, good defensive coordinators will stop it (unless the athletes are far superior).

The reason Self's system is supposedly so complex is his demands within the system. Which goes to your point on flexibility.

I had mentioned yesterday, as well, a couple easy additions to our system. You mentioned options. Have we ever seen our wing screen for the high post with the low post clearing out to the opposite wing? Imagine that ... Ellis accepts the screen from Selden, Selden clears wide and rolls. Ellis attacks. The low post has cleared wide to the roll/Selden side. Selden provides an option for the pass. Meanwhile, Greene lurks on Ellis' side, at the three point line (corner). If Greene's man helps, pop to Greene for three. Of course, if the lane is open, Ellis goes to the hoop.

A great example of teams scheming to stop our offense -- When we ran our 4 out/1 in weave against Oklahoma, it caught them off guard. We had the advantage. By the time we reached the Big 12 tourney, coach Hoiberg was ready, and shut it down in the second half. All ISU did was pinch the wings, kind of create a mess in the middle, and shut the lanes down. We had nothing. WSU just plagiarized ISU -- it's what good coaches do.

Self needs an offensive coordinator.

@KU-Flyer You said, "No one is going to transfer."

Ok, I get that. But suppose you are Svi or Greene, and we sign Ingram. You know Mason and Graham get time because of their ball handling. Out two point guards. You know Selden plays. You know Self goes with a five man (or smaller) perimeter rotation. Always has. You saw that Wiggins and Oubre played as OADs. We sign Ingram. You connect the dots and figure that Ingram will start.

If you are Greene, aren't you risking a lot? This is your junior season. And you might get shut out of PT? The best you would be is the 5th guy. Transfer or redshirt?

If you are Svi, you are going to sit the bench again? You are in the lottery spots of 2016 mock drafts? Again, the best you would be is now the 5th guy. Transfer or go back to Europe for pro ball?

If a Juco guy comes in, different dynamic of course. But an OAD? Guaranteed -- if we get an OAD -- Graham, Brown, or Newman -- roster pressure will demand relief. Transfer, return to Europe, redshirt. Something.

Heck, if it's Newman, he wants to play point .. you are Devonte Graham. Your not only staring at Mason's rear end for the next two seasons, but now Newman?

Just speculation.

Not to be a negator on Bad Ball, but how about we run a more diverse offense and actually vary our screening patterns and our personnel placement? And perhaps .. just perhaps .. work a touch harder to get those three ball looks? These are not complex adjustments. Our current offense can easily be adjusted to make it more dynamic.

Don't be confused, the offense we ran late with four out/one in (the weave) late was not an "offense" that you can rely on. It was a simplistic stop gap. One that you could teach a bunch of 7th graders in a few practice sessions. It has its place, to use as a change up .. and of course, to use until it is stopped. But it's not anything we want to rely on.

Good topic to distract from the recruiting drama. I agree that the most improved will be Selden. I see the guy averaging 12-14 points per game next season. He's that close, I think. It takes some guys a little time. He was obviously overhyped, and was ranked probably 20 spots too high, given what we have seen. No shame in taking some time to develop.

I do think Svi will be our surprise .. won't be a surprise to the folks here, but to the rest of the basketball world, he will be.

I know we want that OAD wing. We think we need him. It's enticing. But I am much more excited about the prospect of Svi starting alongside Mason and Selden, than any of the other options right now. I hope it materializes.

Remember, if we get that OAD wing, that makes a very crowded group of six -- a transfer is really likely if that occurs, or something else to eliminate the roster pressure (redshirt).

Ok, I'm playing this twitter game. Perry Ellis just followed Diallo tonight.

@Statmachine I just can't imagine a better power forward in Self's system. He and Withey were quite a combo down low. By the way, great work on this recruiting stuff.

@Statmachine Man how I loved TRob. My favorite player of the Self era. Diallo's got a lot of TRob in him.

Here I am rooting we get an OAD. I long for the days where we can throw it into the post of an easy basket.

@JayHawkFanToo No, they can. But with a scarlet A.

Diallo had an in home visit with Calipari tonight didn't he?

Edit .. sorry, that was yesterday.

@ralster Why would the offensive schemes and plays stagnate?

I would first say that I don't think our plays stagnate. Our set plays are by and large effective.

But on our offense, it's because it is not dynamic. It is easy to guard. There is never an inversion of roles. It's easy for defenses to know where offensive players will be. It relies on execution first and foremost, which of course most offenses do. But its execution does nothing to confuse the defense. In other words, we try to do what we do and do it so well that we'll beat you. The roles in the offense are very regimented. The stagnation occurs because there is little freedom to deviate from the rules of the offense. Rules aren't bad, of course, they are a necessity. But there are too few options within the rules.

Best way I can say it.

One example I have used is we rarely use the high post to screen the wing, away from the ball. This creates 1) the opportunity for an open three pointer, and 2) a re-screen to set up a pick and roll on the wing. This seems like a very easy concept to incorporate and use all the time.

@justanotherfan I am hopeful that your optimism is well placed!

@justanotherfan You said, "Self has realized that his offense stagnates too easily against the better defenses in the country, or when opposing coaches have time to prepare."

I am curious -- what exactly has occurred on the floor in the past two seasons that gives you any indication, belief, or hope that coach Self has any appreciation for this fact?

@Statmachine Why do you think Mickelson was so hopelessly stuck behind Lucas and Traylor? I guess I tend to think that won't change much. Plus, Mickelson doesn't appear to be Withey from a skill standpoint at least at present; but Withey looked rough, too. I really worry -- @stupidmichael like -- about our post play in our current system, with our personnel.

@ralster By the way, was able to read all of your posts over the weekend about your contact with coach Self. Great stuff. Really appreciate you sharing all of that.

@BeddieKU23 The Davis thing was really strange. He seemed like a dead-lock for Kansas. It is perhaps the most stark example of the price we have paid for the OAD dance. Right now, I'd still rather have Davis than Diallo, if given the choice.

If we do not land Newman, Brown, or Ingram, we seriously have to question our investment of time and effort in the OADs.

If we are able to land Diallo, it will be a big relief. But it won't really change the discussion points after this drama is done, if we whiff otherwise.

Diallo is a must have. Ingram, Brown or Newman -- one of them -- appear to be must-haves in the OAD arena. Are we a player, or aren't we?

If we land one of the perimeter guys, and Diallo, Self's investment of time and effort would seem to have been justified.

@drgnslayr On the Jordan Brand broadcast, one of the color guys .. Simon or Biancardi .. said that Diallo really liked ISU's offensive system. As you said, "imagine that."

@jaybate-1.0 Excellent post ... What do you think is being offered? From KU's end, I think it's a starting spot. Has to be. Self has a rep for not providing a guarantee, but at this stage, how do we land Diallo without that? Could part of the deal be a sweet adidas contract upon graduation? Surely not ...

Interesting on Dakari Johnson. That guy would have been much better off choosing Kansas. My bet is that he would have been a two year guy, turning pro right now, but in a much better position. He would have been the unquestioned starter at the 5, and it would have been post feed heaven. And I think Kansas would have been much better off record-wise (No Embiid or Cliff).

@jaybate-1.0 So, are you saying we need to sell-out for the OADs?

Dangerous territory we are venturing into now.

My wife walked by and said, "I thought that was a basketball website."

I'm trying to explain ...

@JayHawkFanToo Did you just say, "On the other hand, he might be thinking that without competent/capable bigs, might as well go small with a potent long range array of shooters ala ISU, it worked well for them, it might work for KU as well."

I don't know what to say other than "bravo", to quote @drgnslayr.

@jaybate-1.0 We should not be an injury away from .500. Again I'd look at our talent. Our talent is high, thus matched to the right system, would maximize our potential. Maximizing our potential means that Lucas and Traylor don't play a large role. But Mason, Selden, Greene, Graham, Svi, Eillis and Bragg do. That those latter seven guys are the entire focus of our offensive scheme.

@JayHawkFanToo mentioned ISU's scheme. There are three schemes I really enjoyed .. Gonzaga, Oklahoma, and Michigan State. WSU was solid, as well.

I will say that we could focus on those seven guys and still employ the high/low. Again, I prefer this approach. I think that a lot of variations could be run.

We could start Bragg on the low box -- the low post. But give him freedom to roam, which would allow flash reposting, which can create angles much easier than our stagnant attempts to post. The key is finding his favorite shooting spots, and set the rules to get him there when he is in. Ellis would be the high post in a classic pick and pop scheme.

But here's an important element -- because Ellis could flex to the perimeter, and Bragg to the high post, we should exploit match up advantages as they arise, permitting perimeter guys to post up their defender. It's something we never do.

Another element which we fail to exploit is isolating for the pick and roll. I think in a high/low scheme, this is a terrific part of the attack; and even more of a necessity when you don't have a true post feed option.

There is just SO much we could do.

The comedy routine continues.

Did you know that President Obama is right, and is always right? I mean, he is the president. And you'll never be president. So there. You shouldn't question him. He knows more about his job than you do, so your opinion is irrelevant. There is no way that anyone who is not president could be actually right in their criticisms. And there is no way that president Obama could be wrong.

What a joke.

@JayHawkFanToo Those are good points ... I struggle with an explanation as to why guys would not want to play here. Given the focus of our offense, it seems like a post player's dream. Why would Kansas, of all the schools, miss on all of the big guys I listed?

When you describe Cliff, I disagree a bit. I believe the kid just needed to play and play a lot. The constant yo-yo in and out, and changing of his role, creates a lot of the kid's uncertainty. The handling of a player is crucial. We've had this same discussion on other players.

I'm not sure why he and Oubre would be such fish out of water, and the Duke trio, UK guys, and other top 15 guys seemed to be fish in water (as well as other guys right on that fringe like Blackmon, Ulis, and Russell). When I looked at this at about the 10 game mark, it seemed like on Theo Pinson was struggling like Oubre.

But that all goes to perception and negative recruiting. Regardless of truth, untruth, or validity of explanation, I am quite sure it's a big factor in our empty OAD boat so far. No doubt that Cliff's season here didn't help us.

Right now, I'm concerned about the power of negative recruiting. Call it the Kelly/Cliff affect.

Cliff is now the biggest deal, Kelly was the bigger deal.

Imagine the narrative of an opposing coach -- Cliff came to Kansas a virtual lock as a lottery pick. Cliff couldn't adapt to Self's system. Self couldn't teach Cliff his system. Self pulled Cliff multiple times from games. Self wouldn't let Cliff mature on the court. Self was impatient with Cliff. Self publicly criticized Cliff. Self won't guarantee your role. Self played Traylor over Cliff, and Traylor will be a senior next season. Self values experience. There is Landen Lucas who will be a junior and Mickelson a senior, as well. Cliff was statistically better, but Self wouldn't let him perform. If you were going to be in college 2-3 seasons, sure, hard to argue with Self, but you have just one season. Kansas hurt Cliff's NBA chances. How do you screw up the #2 player in the country? Well, Self did it with Josh Selby too. And look at Oubre, Self would hardly play him the first 15 games. Even with Wiggins, they wouldn't let him show his game. Cliff will now be lucky to be a first round pick. Why take that chance? Why risk your career?

Every possible negative can be spun. This is what I'm sure Self is facing. And I think this is the exact reason why we have struck out on the OAD post men that Self has been so strongly pursuing this season (Simmons, Skal, Stone, Raab, Zimmerman, Jeter). Why take a chance at Kansas?

Hard to believe Kansas, with its post centered offense, got none of those guys. The power of negative recruiting. After the negative, others have selling points:

From St. Johns, you will be the star here. The focus of our team. You'll play 30 minutes per game guaranteed.

From UK, look at our system, and our results. Four final fours in five seasons. Constant ESPN exposure. We are America's team. Look at our draft picks.

From ISU, look at our system. You'll fit right in. We run, that's your game. We will exploit your strengths. The space we create offensively will let you attack.

Of course, this is ignoring all the positives Self can throw at him about Kansas. It's a battle that we are losing right now. But getting Diallo changes that narrative and gives Self a big win. It now all comes down to Diallo. There is no way to dress it up, though .. if we miss on Diallo, this was a disaster. But it ain't over.

Let's look at the positive -- If Self does not get Diallo, could this force Self move outside of his bubble and install a system that is suited to the talent on his roster?

It was reported by Rustin Dodd that heading into last season, in October, Self knew we'd have trouble scoring inside. That was literally our downfall on offense.

Now there is no need to wait until October for that announcement. If we strike out on Diallo, the dye is nearly cast. Why not install a system now that is focused on the talents of our roster? There are many to choose from. Perhaps start with Gonzaga, Oklahoma, WSU, or Michigan St., and go from there.

Heading into next season, doing the same thing that we've done offensively, would be insanity (as Einstein defined).

@dylans Try this, don't read what I write. It's the same as it was at the other site. I know my approach is not everyone's cup of tea. I've mentioned that before and I'm fine with that. Or, if you choose to tell me why I'm wrong, do that. But don't expect that I will accept "because Bill Self says so" or "he's won 500 games" as a reasonable argument most of the time.

Remember, the 90% is nice. We like coach Self for it. But it isn't much for conversation or discussion. Because it is the 10% that frames whether we get better, or we get worse.

I still love your avatar.

Good lord, I've been air-dropped in Blue Pill territory. You know, where Bill Self is God and the peons run around with their crimson and blue colored glasses doing ritualistic chants. Places where objectivity has died. @Wigs2, you better run. They don't like your kind around here. It doesn't matter what you think. Don't you know that? When a Bill Self circle jerk is occurring, you best head for the hills my friend. Blue Pill territory is a dangerous place for free thinkers.

@JayHawkFanToo is great a citing links where folks revere the conference streak. Yay for @JayHawkFanToo for the ingenuity. And, of course, for the standard "NCAA tourney is luck" stuff. You know, isn't it interesting how since about March 19, no one cares about the conference streak except some of us? It's weird how that "lucky" NCAA tourney gets all the run -- you know, the place where a true champion is crowned? How do these top programs keep winning if it's so darn lucky?

@KansasComet is helpful for telling everyone that somehow, someway, Bill Self "made us competitive this year." Amazing feat. I mean really, without coach Self the most talented roster in the Big 12 would have surely collapsed. He just had to rely on Mickelson and Lucas, didn't he. He had to play conventionally. He had to play his system. He had no other choice.

@jayhawk-007 for citing NCAA tourney achievements for a guy who has made exactly two final fours in his entire career (and of course, is only 52 years old). Why would anyone want more? Why should we expect more. And of course, our roster is littered with highly ranked players that was just not talented enough to get to the final four. Just not enough "talent." What is an elite program to do? I mean, WSU was surely more "talented." Stanford too.

@dylans - last but not least, for helping us all to understand that we were lucky not to lose "15-16 games" this season, but for Bill Self's amazing coaching. How he managed not lose big, we will never know.

There you have it folks. Blue Pill territory. A tight knit group. Loyal, you know, like a dog. Where objectivity, critical thinking, and strategy analysis come to die. Where the occupants wouldn't know X's and O's if they hit them in the side of the head. No time for those complexities and complications. Don't want any of that game planning crap in Blue Pill territory. No sir. Simple thoughts. Keep things simple. Follow Bill Self. Cite the good stuff, ignore the bad. All is well. Makes me happy.

Now, don't get me wrong. The Red Pill folks do like coach Self. It's just that view squarely up his a** that we don't care for.

**Edit - Please note that @jayhawk-007's post is noted as an example. Clearly a critical thinker. Maybe not Red Pill, but certainly leaning that way.

@BeddieKU23 Of the two options, I trust the staff to develop Diallo .. no doubt.

@BeddieKU23 I'm truly not trying be a contrarian here. Your link is on the spin move where he got the ball away from the basket. I had mentioned that move specifically today in another post today. Nice move on Zimmerman.

But Diallo is nowhere near Embiid near the basket. Embiid had an array of options, He did well with ball in his hands, he could put the ball on the floor in traffic, he had a drop step, he could pivot and shoot, and he had a nice little one hander (using both left and right). Again, just referring to back to the basket scoring -- throw it in, make your move, and score. I have never seen Diallo do that. And Embiid was far more advanced. If I could have Embiid or Okafer, I'd take Embiid (healthy, of course).

Embiid would have been the at least the third greatest college player at Kansas had he been healthy and stayed three seasons. He was incredible.

All that said, I'm confident that Diallo can be taught. His effort does say a lot. It's just the accelerated necessity since he'd be at Kansas about 9 months total.

@BeddieKU23 I had posted this on another thread - Miles Simon made the point that Diallo was not a guy you'd throw it into on the block. He's not a back to the basket scorer yet. He called him a "garbage man." Diallo is amazing in literally every other phase. But that back to the basket scoring is our biggest need.

Here's ESPN's comment on his weaknesses: This is where significant improvements must be made. He lacks feel on the offensive side and while he's got major awareness as a shot blocker he's opposite in terms of catching and scoring. His touch is fleeting. Needs one move and he'll be a kid that can impact games. He must continue to work to develop on the offensive end of the floor including his ball handling.

One post move. A little baby hook might be nice.

For our system, I would have liked Simmons obviously, but Rabb or Jeter would have been my choice regarding presumed OADs.

But no sense in worrying about that now. It's all in on Diallo.

@JayHawkFanToo said:

@Crimsonorblue22

I'll take Junior Selden over any OAD.

Absolutely. No question in my mind. Selden is the kind of guy that could just explode. I'm very optimistic on Selden for next season.

@SoftballDad2011 - He appears to be a tremendous rebounder. Long, active, quick off the ground. But you are right on the blockout thing. Saw your post and scanned through the first half. I'll cut him some slack as it is an exhibition. I'd say that Self will drill that into him, but we saw Traylor regularly fail to block out in his fourth season in the program. Can't imagine a guy that plays like Diallo wouldn't be receptive. Doesn't appear to have a lazy bone in his body.

My big concern with Diallo is our biggest need right now for a fully function Self system -- back to the basket scoring. Every evaluation of Diallo notes this as a significant deficiency. Watching him doesn't change that concern. In Self's system, it's a must. Really, though, it is a bit irrelevant. There is no Ivan Rabb or Ben Simmons on the board.

Diallo, paired with either Bragg or Ellis, is the best we can do. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Diallo is a rim protector, to be sure. That will help. And his clean up ability -- "garbage man" as Simon called him -- will make us better. Again, though, we don't have any other real options at this point now that Thorne is off the board.

@Wigs2 He was recruited because we were stuck, but IMG was a nice link (and @DanR's recollection might be right). Here's what I recall: Self stated that he was surprised when both Morrises turned pro (really, it was Markieff that surprised him as I recall. He wasn't surprised when it happened in April, but he didn't think Kieff would be turning pro until late in the season). That was the spring/summer we scrambled and signed Traylor, B. Anderson, and KY. Only Anderson was on our radar before the Morris announcement. Traylor was likely to go to Ok. St. or Minnesota (or something like that). Self was in a tough spot because if the twins returned, and we had TRob, those were big roadblocks to top guys. But after the Morrises turned pro, we missed on DeAndre Daniels and Otto Porter. Can you imagine if Porter would have been on our 2011-12 team? Yikes.

@KansasComet I make it all pretty simple. Self did a good job getting Cliff to KU. Self did a bad job getting Cliff ready to play in his system. And Cliff did a bad job getting ready to play in Self's system. However, when Cliff played, the statistics show that he was productive.

With or without Cliff, I believed our chances were low to get to the Final Four playing our offensive system, which didn't fit our talent. But 21-4 showed we were in the game. With tweaks offensively, and "freeing the three", we were at least as good as Notre Dame (and probably better).

The discussion was on "talent" -- there is not doubt we had the talent.

@brooksmd No, you're right. There was one early reference to all of the schools in on Diallo, and Kansas was mentioned. But then later when they were going through the guys remaining, they said "Iowa St. and Kentucky" related to Diallo.

I watched the Jordan Brand classic from last night.

Cheick Diallo is an amazing athlete -- really amazing. I wanted to watch him again. He is a way better athlete than Cliff ever thought of being. His skill set is running the floor, rebounding, defense -- Miles Simon, one of the game announcers mentioned that. He also said that Diallo is not a guy that you're going to throw it to in the post. That is a concern. I have compared those concerns to Cliff, meaning lack of skill around the basket. But Diallo superior athleticism could take him places that Cliff will never go. I cannot imagine Diallo ever being benched for effort or motor.

Simon also said that Diallo was more of a "garbage man." (go to the 16:04 mark for Simon's comments). In watching Diallo, he may be 6'9" but he definitely plays bigger. Diallo did have a nice spin move around Zimmerman for a lay up over the front of the rim. Hit an 8 footer. Scored a lot in transition. It was also mentioned that Diallo really likes Iowa State's "style of play."

No doubt in my mind that he'd make us better, and there is no doubt in my mind that he'd start alongside Ellis -- of course, after the first few games coming off the bench watching Traylor start. Ugh.

We have moved into "must have" territory.

This season might be a referendum on the pursuit of OADs. If we don't get Diallo, we've literally been shut out on all the top presumed OAD big guys (Skal, Raab, Stone, Simmons, Diallo, Zimmerman, etc.) Diallo seems like a must.