🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@approxinfinity I tried to take care most times to say a "Karviar Shepherd-like guy" or something like that just in case he flamed out. Just hedging.

But you are right, his stats aren't great. But this is where I have faith in Self. I think Shepherd would have been better here. More talent around him. A system that would be directly geared toward getting him the ball on the block.

So yes, right now, if I could go back and we would get Karviar Shepherd, and we would never have had Embiid, Cliff, or the next guy (Diallo/Thorne) this season, I'd do it.

On your tiers, I used Rivals ↗:

1. 1-10: I'll go Skal Labissiere.
2. 11-20: Here I'll be a homer and pick Bragg.
3. 21-30: Gotta go with my favorite recruit from this class for Self's system, Tyler Davis (meaning, a big guy that will be in college three seasons, high talent).
4. 31-50: Thomas Bryant, Indiana.
5. 50-100: Doral Moore, Wake Forest.

My last three guys, Davis, Bryant, and Moore, are all post players that I would have loved to see at Kansas (given what Self likes to do). And obviously, not OADs. Broken record stuff here, but I'd take any one of these guys now and skip the Diallo, etc. OAD drama.

By the way, on Baker, you can't fault Self for not recruiting Baker. I know we'd like to think that guys like him should be spotted -- that's for WSU to do. Self's focus on top 100 guys is his focus, as it should be.

@justanotherfan Your post above was terrific. A point and a half though? That is significant if we're dealing with a guy averaging 7 points a game. But a guy averaging 30? Stated another way, Russell was only a point and a half better than the other schmucks guarding Wilt. Anyway, @nuleafjhawk posted it before I could, "@JayHawkFanToo I don't think it is just your opinion." But again, @justanotherfan, excellent post -- we're just a little Wilt biased. Russell clearly brought the intangibles you mentioned.

@JayHawkFanToo great post as well. The numbers really are astonishing, Makes me wonder if there ever was a more dominant athlete in any sport than Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt was obviously ahead of his time.

@jaybate-1.0 You said, "Imagine a 1-3-1 zone of all athletic footers." -- you know me, I'm always imagining a 1-3-1 zone. Heck, playing it with a bunch of midgets .. er, little people .. would excite me. The best defense in all of basketball, in my humble opinion.

@jayhawk-007 I do think that you, and a few others, fail to recognize that with most that offer criticisms of Self, we are granting the positives -- meaning, we understand that Self is a great coach. We get that. 90% is great. We just focus on the critique of the other 10%. I appreciate that you suggest that I have "otherwise interesting analysis." But part of that is critical thinking is challenging what I see from coach Self, and that leads to the analysis -- If I don't do that, I'm not thinking.

If you've read my posts, you know that I'm a big fan of the high/low. I think the post feed is the best way to score the basketball. I think playing inside out is the most effective offensive approach. Now, isn't that pretty much an adoption of Self's philosophy right there on offense? My disconnect with Self is related to 10%.

This season, we had a different team. A different skill set. An inability to score at the rim. Looking at the talent that you have, and adjusting your attack to maximize that talent. Ironically, this season, we had three final four teams that embraced three point shooting, all in a year when Self said we had the best perimeter shooting team he's had at Kansas. All in a year where this team proved regularly that it struggled to score at the rim. Yet Self took a much different path. Thus the critical analysis.

I saw your own review Self above. You just said "Coach Self should certainly learn to be a little less stubborn and pig-headed." Isn't that what most of the discussion this past season has centered on? Really, haven't you captured my entire criticism of Self in a nutshell? Be flexible, adjust, and adapt.

I'm interested in your proclamation -- you said that there was "NO WAY" that this past KU team had "Final Four talent". I'm completely stumped.

Here's our roster: 1) Perry Ellis, ranked 24, 2) Cliff Alexander, ranked 2 3) Kelly Oubre, ranked 10, 4) Brannen Greene, ranked 29, 5) Frank Mason, ranked 76, 6) Devonte Graham, ranked 36, 7) Svi Mykhailuik (foreign so not ranked, but noted as a lottery talent), 8 ) Wayne Selden, ranked 12, 9) Hunter Mickelson ranked 55/100 -- and two unranked guys, Traylor and Lucas.

I'm not understanding how one can say we don't have enough talent. Would it be incorrect to state that anyone who looked at that roster of talent, and felt that it was not of Final Four caliber, might themselves be delusional? I don't know.

I will say that my unequivocal opinion is that if .. "if" .. this team's offensive weapons were maximized, we certainly had a chance to reach the final four. But there is no doubt that we had the talent on the roster.

@dylans Wouldn't you agree that Kansas, under coach Self, has had better talent than all other Big 12 contenders every season during his tenure, save two or three (maybe)?

Whose job is it to ensure we have the "center" on the roster?

Whose job is it to adjust Kansas' attack when we are missing a piece or two that are preferred pieces?

@RockkChalkk Agree completely.

Here's the thing that I struggle with -- Landen Lucas plays the same spot. Terrific kid. Hard working. All the good stuff.

Then you have a Zimmerman, who may be a good kid, but just doesn't prioritize college. KU would be the proverbial pit stop.

But, is the talent gap so significant that we could overlook Zimmerman's baggage, if the alternative is Landen Lucas starting at center?

I can't stand OADs. But I also can't stand having low level talent in key spots.

And while I think Lucas could make some progress, I don't expect anything significant. Much like Traylor. Could have some good games, but the normal level of play is not good enough for a post-focused offense.

It makes me feel a little dirty to say that I'd probably rather have Zimmerman.

Now, if it is a comparison to a 15-80 ranked guy, easy choice there.

@Lulufulu - Thought you would be interested in this. New info. The injury was apparently not a progressive one, but a traumatic one. This from kusports.com:

Jeffrey explained the injury: “He had a torn labrum he did in early February that he didn’t tell anybody about. He couldn’t push off his right leg and jump off his right leg. It got worse. The inflammation was the pain he was feeling. It continued to swell and swell. “Genetically when you are 7-years-old you start to form that ball socket. The ball socket was a tiny bit bigger than they felt it should be, so they shaved it down a bit. He had no bone spurs. It went well. He is in recovery in a good amount of pain. Give it a day and the pain should subside.”

Jeff Greene said Brannen wanted to keep playing thus didn’t inform anybody about a possible hip problem this past season. “I noticed he wasn’t getting any lift on his shot. It was flatter than normal at times. It wasn’t the same repeating motion,” Jeff said. “After a few games I was saying to him, ‘Why is your shot different? It’s a different shot than the one that got us here.’ He was trying to keep his condition from everybody, me, the staff, the trainers. He was saying, ‘I just need to stretch out a little more.’ I knew he wasn’t getting lift on the shot. He didn’t want us to know he was injured other than, ‘I think I tweaked something.’’’ Greene’s dad noticed his son had trouble getting out of a chair at the team hotel during the Big 12 tournament, but Greene again said he was just sore from the previous game.

“He came home two weeks ago. He yelled getting out of a chair and had trouble walking. I said, ‘What in the heck is wrong?’ He said, ‘I hurt it. I got hit in a game, hit in practice, my hip has not been the same.’ I said, ‘This happened right before the (shooting) slump didn’t it?’ He said he hurt it but it wasn’t as painful but keeps getting worse,” Jeffrey said. So it was checked out and surgery was deemed the solution. The surgery was performed by Dr. J.W. Thomas Byrd at Nashville Sports Medicine and Orthopaedic Center. The Tennessee Titans team physician has authored several textbooks on hip arthroscopy.

Div. III looks kind of small -- Ohio classifications ↗

As long as he's not really 6'6" ...

@joeloveshawks I think you hit the nail on the head .. "we don't have to go all in."

I've always advocated OADs when there is an obvious hole. We have a hole right now. Diallo is the only real remedy. But, we don't have to be in this spot. We have a hole because we chose not to address it early -- we chose not to take a possible lesser talent (assuming, of course, Self could have snagged one).

@Bosthawk - I would suggest that Withey wasn't a total gamble, though. He was a top 40 player. Lucas and Withey aren't in the same league. I'd say Mickelson is maybe a more reasonable comparison.

I will say this, too -- I don't want any players outside the top 100 as rule But we'll have a few, fliers, etc. If we do, I want the guys that we really locate as overlooked guys, not the fall back plans that Traylor and Lucas were. That's scrambling.

But our core, we need solid players 15-80. That range should be our rotation guys. Then, if the flier or developmental guy is ready by junior/senior season, fine. But as an example, Traylor ain't it. This is a guy playing because we have to play him. That's what hurts us. Of course, I appreciate both Lucas' and Traylor's hard work, etc. It's just business.

I'm kind of intrigued with the Greek freak that @JayHawkFanToo mentioned last week. 7'1" is 7'1" -- heck, that's the kind of gamble to take.

@drgnslayr See, I don't think we have to recruit in this circus. We just don't. Kansas, with coach Self, using all of its leverage and muscle, focusing on non-OADs like Bragg, surely would trump the Texas A&Ms of the world if Self would guarantee recruits that he wouldn't bring in OADs. Why couldn't this work?

@KUSTEVE - The reason we can't teach Landen is the same reason that we couldn't teach Justin Wesley. Lack of talent. It's that simple. Lucas can only get so good. He's only got so much going for him. Can he improve? Sure. But it's the reason why some make it and some don't. Teaching is only a part of it. He's been here now three seasons and is barely serviceable.

Imagine the disaster here if we don't get Diallo. We do not have to be doing this ridiculous dance.

Worst case scenario .. Diallo commits and signs, and we don't get Thorne or another big. Then Diallo bolts because of either ineligibility or like Emmanual Mudiay did to China.

Ah, the OAD merry go round. Where it stops, nobody knows.

Somehow I think it would just be nice to have a Tyler Davis-esque guy in the bag right now, wouldn't it?

But we just gotta recruit the best talent, don't we? No one would turn that down, would they?

Man, with all this shoeco stuff, I'm surprised they aren't manufacturing 7 footers. You know, paying Joel Embiid to partner up with Brittany Griner ... er, bad example. Not sure she is really a woman ... Partner up with a really tall woman then. All paid for by Nike (or Nika, as we should probably say). Harvesting the next generation of OADs. Coach Cal in the birthing room. Coach K pacing the halls. Nike execs monitoring every move. All hoping the kid has the swoosh birth mark on the back of the neck, and not one with three stripes, which would indicate a genetic mutation. Coach Self obviously in the waiting room, ready to pounce if that occurred. Seems like a Sci-Fi drama waiting to happen.

@JayHawkFanToo Maybe .. that would be a non-OAD (in the technical sense), and would equate to an NBA level talent. Guys like that, the fifth year seniors, of course, want playing time. Circumstantially, I'd doubt that is a match. And I think with perhaps the top transfer coupled with KU, it wouldn't be hush-hush. There has to be something else going on beyond what we are considering and the names we have heard.

@Lulufulu Curious, do you feel the same way about our roster if we don't get Diallo?

I don't disagree that the hip surgery was needed ... he wouldn't get it otherwise. No issue there. Sounds like it's something being done electively, to remove the source of irritation. I do, however, think the hip thing had zero to do with his shooting. This issue is the start to the drop off -- in reality it was like falling off a cliff. That doesn't happen on something progressive. Break your hand? Sure. Self said he's always had the spurs and it's just got progressively worse. He seemed to shoot fine for 80% of the season through the TT game. Sounds like an irritant that has just gotten to the stage where it's wise to remedy it. He didn't develop the spurs just after the TT game. Again, I don't think the two are related at all. I mean like zero.

Self mentioned the supposed "minor" concussion as it related to his shooting. That is just silly. If the kid had any concussion issues, he wouldn't play, or practice. If he had concussion issues that affected his shooting, then he wouldn't be able to shoot in practice/scrimmaging. A concussion isn't going to discriminate between the driveway, a practice or a game. If your head is jacked up -- movement, sensitivity to sound or light -- it's jacked up. And if he had any of those in a game, they would pull him related to (my assumption of) concussion protocol. He obviously had been cleared. It's not something where magically the "minor" concussion would affect him only in the game.

I'm just curious, question for Bill Self, did the rest of the team also have "minor" concussions following the TT game?

@BeddieKU23 This is pretty funny .. here's your quote about Rabb:

"Close to home, the Cal coach made him a priority and gave him that family atmosphere. I bet if Zeus went pro he would have went to Zona. At Cal he can play 30 minutes a game with no competition."

Now change that to Diallo:

"Close to home, the St. Johns coach made him a priority and gave him that family atmosphere. I bet if Ellis went pro he would have went to KU. At St. Johns he can play 30 minutes a game with no competition."

Hope my attempt at humor isn't reality.

@drgnslayr I know you want that additional perimeter player, and with Greene perhaps on the shelf, that certainly may make more sense now. @Crimsonorblue22 made a good point. Ingram seems to be down the mock draft boards and ratings a bit; maybe not a presumed OAD. But certainly in that discussion. I saw him as high as 10 in a mock. He at least might have a chance at staying, but I think @BeddieKU23 is probably right .. hard to see Ingram past one season. That's just my hunch, as well. But Self may have just given us a big hint there. Maybe our hooks are more in Ingram? It always seemed like we 3rd behind Duke and UNC. Mentioning Ingram, though, makes me look at the other guys, too -- none of those guys are staying more than one season. Ingram is the only one that is even a possible TAD. Can't imagine who he is talking about if not Ingram.

@BeddieKU23 said:

@HighEliteMajor

The one defense for Self I have is that he's not going to come out and blast the team negatively at the Banquet. He made some jabs but they were all in joke format.

You are right, we shouldn't believe much because it was a PR move to keep everyone thinking positive and closing the season on a good note, recognizing players for hard work over the season.

Every team in the nation had injuries and they were not talked about. Whatever it is that caused the late season collapse is on him, and he knows it. What he does to correct it remains to be seen.

This is a perfect way to explain it.

I hope everyone can sense an excuse when they see one here. It's always the same from Self. After the season, guys had these multitudes of injuries that impliedly affected their performance.

It is ridiculous to even give this stuff any credence at all.

I'd bet quite a bit of money that Greene hit bucket loads of threes in practice. If he was injured and his hip or supposed slight concussion caused him to be affected, he wouldn't have played. He just isn't that good otherwise. If he missed a bunch of shots in practice, they would have reacted to that.

Don't get sucked into allowing this disinformation to be molded into an excuse.

Seeing Self's comments from last night really just make me angry. This team began the season as a Final Four team. This team was 21-4.

But that all changed, didn't it? We ended 6-5 and played embarrassingly bad against WSU. As Landen Lucas said, WSU just wanted it more.

I'm not sure there is any supposed injury that affects "want to." Though maybe a media member could ask Self. I'm sure he'd speculate on that.

Comments from Bill Self. I'll be honest, I don't know what he's talking about when he's referring to a "difference-maker guard" that's "not necessarily" an OAD. The only guys out there are presumed OADs.

If we add another guard, one of our players will transfer/leave, whether it be now, or nearer to the season like CF did (after roles are more defined):

“I think we are one ‘big’ away, obviously. We need to sign a big that can anchor it for us. We are actively involved with a couple guys. We hope we can get one of ’em,” Self said. “If we can get a difference-maker guard, a pro, not necessarily meaning a one-and-done guy, but a guy who can come in when you watch him, whether he be a Ben (McLemore) type or somebody like that where you know he’s gonna be an NBA-type guy. If we can get one of those, I think our talent level will be as good as it’s been in a long time.”

And as we can see, Self's only hoping for one more big. He mentioned being actively involved with a couple of guys -- Diallo and Thorne most likely are the "couple", of course. We have a nice group of five very talented perimeter players. I'd be more worried about our post players. The trio of Mickelson, Lucas, and Traylor are the three worst players on our roster, and will be the three worst players on our roster next season. Yet we'll rely on two of them at a minimum for significant minutes as the 4th and 5th bigs (if we're lucky), or more if one of our new guys "doesn't get it" as seems to be the deal with new guys at Kansas.

When you have major studs starting, that can mask bench deficiencies. But we don't have major studs. Ellis is good. He's not a stud. It's nice he's coming back, but we shouldn't think that he's going to be anything much more than he was last season -- and his significant deficiency, scoring in the post against length or height -- really crippled what Self wants to do.

I'm struggling to see how the dynamic in the post changes on the offensive end no matter whether we get Diallo or Thorne.

@JayHawkFanToo My initial impression was that he's just another guy. But when I looked at his numbers over the weekend, his numbers compared pretty well with Black from Black's season with Kansas. But more importantly, look at Black's numbers at Memphis vs. Kansas. Black's numbers got much better at Kansas. His rebounds and blocks went up quite a bit, turnovers down. The biggest stat for Thorne was the turnovers. But I don't know Charlotte's offense, and whether he had to come out on the perimeter, which would likely increase turnovers. What we can see is that Black's turnovers were almost cut in half at Kansas.

1. Thorne - .385 points per minute played, .281 rebounds, .038 blocks, .094 turnovers.

2. Black - .405, .286, .038, .034. (at Kansas 2013-14)

3. Black - .388, .231, .030, .064 (at Memphis 2012-13)

4. Traylor - .233, .182, .051, .074.

5. Lucas - .230, .286, .037, .063.

6. Mickelson - .338, .255, .142, .067

I think it's really tough to speculate. But if we assume that Thorne will improve at the same rate as Tarik Black, I think he'd be better than Traylor or Lucas. I think it's fair to assume Thorne will be better just by being in Self's system, with our talent, with Self as the coach. I kind of disregard Mickelson because he's clearly not Self's cup of tea.

Black is a perfect selling point to Thorne. "See what KU can do for you?"

Seriously, what if we don't get Diallo?

Our post situation was an unmitigated disaster last season.

We might then add Mike Thorne, who doesn't look that impressive.

And we've added Carlton Bragg, the only real reason for hope.

We're in a box. OAD Diallo please come save us.

Editor's Note: We shouldn't be in this spot in the first place.

I agree on Smart to an extent .. in watching Louisville, though, Pitino runs a pretty high paced system as well. Not as constant in pace, but certainly a big chunk of his system. I think that Smart will struggle with the top 15, OAD guys with that system. That's probably a positive. But I do think he can really compete for the next level of guys.

@jaybate-1.0 -- If we lose Ellis, I could see landing Diallo and Thorne. But if Ellis is back, I think we only get one. Diallo decides first. Thorne comes only if Diallo goes elsewhere. Thorne made those comments about wanting to be a starter or in the top 5 .. something like that. If I was a betting man, I think Diallo comes here, no Thorne. I'm just dreading the possibility of Self favoring Traylor over Bragg or Diallo, or Lucas for that matter.

On Thorne, I did look at his stats. He is big, but his stats say that he's nothing to get excited about. The stat that stuck out to me was that he had a very high turnover rate -- .094 per minute played. Compare to .059 Ellis, .056 Cliff, .074 Traylor, and .063 Lucas.

Thorne's rebound rate was .281 per minute, compared to .236 Ellis, .300 Cliff, .182 Traylor (unreal), and .286 Lucas.

However, his points per minute were solidly better than Lucas (.230) or Traylor (.233) at .385. Compare to Ellis .479 and Cliff .404.

What's pretty obvious there is that Cliff was better than Traylor or Lucas quite easily, and my bet is Diallo will be too -- and I think Diallo would outdo Thorne just as easily. It's just a matter if Self will just play him.

Anytime stats are cited, they just demonstrate why Jamari Traylor should never play another minute in a Kansas uniform. We've talked about addition by subtraction .. that would be a big addition if Traylor were subtracted. As Michael Corleone said in the Godfather, "It's not personal, it's strictly business" -- [Link](

@VailHawk He may have created the army himself. And they are learning and getting smarter each day.

@brooksmd They might need to push back the late signing date?

@drgnslayr I agree with you completely on Oubre. I felt that he most definitely should return. He's the kind of kid that could explode into an all-american, top 5 pick. There's a big difference in top 5 money, and 15-20 money if he slips a bit. McLemore got picked 7th and I think Oubre has more tools and skills than McLemore. I know it's hard to turn down the money in the mid-first (probably the lowest he'd go), but I think he should have stayed. A better business decision.

A nice afternoon watching KU hoops is tough to top, but watching the Royals put it to the Angels again with the Masters on as well is a pretty good afternoon.

@JayHawkFanToo @Lulufulu - I completely agree that Diallo appears ready to contribute in a number of ways. But the point about needing time to develop is my concern regarding Diallo's back to the basket scoring.

I watched Cliff last year at this time. He looked like he had long arms, and was athletic and physical. A beast, if there ever was one. He looked like a man. I'm just not sure I can say that Diallo looks better than him.

And going to Cliff, the "one move" thing is what he lacked, right? Cliff had no "go to" move. In fact, that was a point of discussion here back in the first few weeks of the season. It didn't appear that Cliff ever came up with that "one move."

However, every player is different. Regardless of who I (we) may compare them to, they each have their own learning curve and challenges.

My only concern with Diallo, really, is just that one season may not be enough to meld the back to the basket scoring. And we need that now.

@RockkChalkk You are exactly right on the put backs/rebounding.

But I hate to be pessimistic here -- didn't we say that about Cliff?

You mentioned that you don't think that we'd need Diallo to be a scorer if Ellis came back. But let's just think back to the past season. We could not score in the post. That is the status quo. The only way that changes is if we add back to the basket post scoring. Ellis was subpar in Self's system -- now, a guy like Embiid? That's different. Heck, I think it's more likely that Diallo learns and improves a quick rate than it is that Ellis improves. I doubt Ellis could score on Diallo in practice. That body type is his nemesis.

And I do appreciate the optimism that Diallo would be a TAD. I see his current spot in mock drafts, and I see that guys that aren't even projected as first rounders are turning pro. The athleticism and natural tools that Diallo has is clearly that of a presumed OAD. If he would come back, it would be a shock.

I'm just concerned about our offense, and the disaster we saw last season repeating itself. To be honest, I think Bragg offers us our best shot at improvement there.

Someone help me be optimistic with our post scoring.

Let me ask this on Diallo -- how does he help our back to the basket scoring dilemma? I have not read a positive report on that aspect of his game. In the times I have seen him on TV, I haven't seen that skill set. I'm just kind of curious as to how he's any different than Cliff?

How is he going to do in a D-1 situation where teams actually play defense? Videos seem to show him dominating smaller guys.

He needs to develop on the offensive end. We don't have time for that. He'll be here one season.

It's all we have now that we blew it on other guys that also need to develop, but actually would be here for a few seasons. He has issues "catching and scoring"? Yikes.

Here's what ESPN says about him. The weaknesses highlighted by his offensive issues, are what is concerning for me:

Strengths:

Diallo has a terrific motor. He competes at a high level on both ends of the floor. He rebounds on both ends with two hands at rim level. He runs the floor with extra long strides where he finishes with power. Diallo simply attacks the opponent. He is capable of defending both post positions as well. Diallo is a finisher, rebounder and top notch shot blocker and defender. Call him an eraser or a rim protector, either is appropriate.

Weaknesses:

This is where significant improvements must be made. He lacks feel on the offensive side and while he's got major awareness as a shot blocker he's opposite in terms of catching and scoring. His touch is fleeting. Needs one move and he'll be a kid that can impact games. He must continue to work to develop on the offensive end of the floor including his ball handling.

Bottom Line:

Diallo is a high energy, finisher, rebounder and shot blocker. His defense and rebounding is what make him special. He will need to continue to work to add some offense to his game but he competes at a high level and can dominate the game defensively. He is a sure shot high major power forward with off the charts upside.

I'm curious, is there anyone here that thinks that Kansas should pursue him for 1/2 the season? I would love to hear the argument.

Seems like he'd really add to the chemistry in the locker room.

But ya gotta bring in the most talent, right?

"Mockery" is what @Lulufulu said. Seems to fit.

And yes, @drgnslayr, I also hope he picks UK.

I was able to obtain a recent transcript of an interview done just yesterday with Coach Self, conducted by our own @jaybate-1.0. Warning. Some of the contents may be disturbing.

Q: Coach Self, thanks for speaking with me.

A: Who are you again?

Q: I'm @jaybate_1.0, with kubuckets.com.

A: I don't know what that means. Is that your real name?

Q: Is that your real hair?

A: Look, I've heard of you, but a little background might help.

Q: Well, I think most KU fans would agree that I'm the most knowledgeable person on KU hoops; kind of a Dalai Lama sort of figure. I rule with wisdom.

A: Then we're a lot alike, you and I.

Q: Let's get moving here. Is the word "flexibility" in your dictionary?

A: You'd have to ask Cindy.

Q: What I mean coach, is why is it that you are so inflexible with your schemes?

A: My schemes have won me a lot of games. I've got 10 rings on my fingers, and they all say "Big 12 champs".

Q: Coach, don't you have 11 rings? I mean, where's the other one?

A: Again, you'd have to ask Cindy. One for bone, ya know.

Q: Uh, anyway, Conner Frankamp told me you hate three point shooters. Your reply?

A: I'm sure he did. Little bastard. He took our playbook and gave it to Mr. Slime Ball in Koch town. That @Crimsonorblue22 is right .. "slime ball." Did you know Marshall really likes the Kochs? Or so I've heard. Well, to your question, I like three pointers that go in the basket.

Q: How can they go in the basket if your players aren't permitted to shoot them?

A: Have you been talking to Brannen? He just needs to get his butt to class, is what he needs to do. Well, the best, most reliable shot is near the basket. That's the shot we try to get.

Q: Coach, this season, though, the numbers were kind of undeniable, right? Like 56% at the rim.

A: That's a little deceiving. Take Selden and Ellis out of that, and we're shooting like 80% at the rim. I know, I know, that's not true. Just feels like it, doesn't it?

Q: So why do you play Selden so much; I mean, why does he start?

A: That's a good question. I'll need to think about that.

(five minutes pass)

Q: Uh, coach ... you done thinkin'?

A: Uh, I promised him a chance to start. Yea, a chance. That's all these boys get. A chance. I don't make promises.

Q: Coach, I didn't say you did make promises.

A: Yes you did. Or that's what you meant.

Q: Alright, let me get to the most important topic. Shoeco's. How do they influence your recruiting?

A: I know NOTHING!

Q: Coach, why did you say that like Sargent Shultz?

A: I don't know.

Q: We we know you are an adidas school; I want to ask you about Nik .....

A. Whoa, Whoa, WHOA! We DON'T say the "N" word around here. We say it with an "a" at the end. Nika. When you say it with an "a" at the end, it means something different. It's part of our KU culture. It makes it funny. We can laugh about .. ha, ha .. see, it's now funny.

Q: Use it in a sentence then.

A: You know, F that Nika bi. That's kind of in jest.

Q: I'm shocked coach.

A: Don't be ... get down here close to me ... closer ... they have microphones. We can't say the real N word. We'll all be out of a job.

Q: Who has microphones, adidas?

A. Uh-huh. They're everywhere.

Q: Ok, then, I'll move on.

Q: Coach, who's the most important Jayhawk for next season?

A: Easy. Me.

Q: You?

A: Well, yea. Who would you say?

Q: Ok, good point. After you .. who is the most important?

A: Probably Cheick Diallo. Well, the most talented, for sure. Not sure if he'll "get it" from the beginning. Might have to start Jamari.

Q: Coach, Diallo hasn't signed yet. Isn't that a recruiting violation?

A: Not if you're not recording this.

Q: What about the ... (whispering) the adidas microphones?

A: Hah, they're not turning me in. The messes they've go me out of. Hell, you wouldn't believe it. Remember Cat Barber? Let me tell you about ...

(Kurtis Townsend interrupting)

Townsend: Coach, that's not a topic today @jaybate-1.0. Please move on.

A: Ok, ok. Mother freaking hen, he is. Would you like a jelly bean?

Q: A jelly bean?

A: Yes, a jelly bean. Here's the bowl.

Q: But coach, they're all blue. And they kind of look like pills.

A: No, no. Nice flavor. I keep them in all of my coaches meetings. Lightens the mood. I give free jelly beans to all the media members after our luncheons. Though that damn @Jesse-Newell says, "Sorry, trying to quit" all the time. He'll eat the damn beans soon enough.

Q: Well, let's get to different topic. What is your position on one and dones.

A: Don't like 'em. I mean, I like the players. Love the players. Great kids every one of them. Don't like the rule.

Q: Why not?

A: I mean, it's not fair to the college game. These kids come in, one season, 8 or 9 months, and then bam, they're gone. Kinda like a one night stand. Though, I've had couple that were well worth ...

Townsend: Coach, remember what we talked about?

A: Right, right.

Q. Then why do you go after them?

A: One night stands?

Q: No, OADs.

A: Got to. Got to recruit the best talent.

Q: How has that worked out for you?

A: Look, the NCAA tournament is a potshot. It's luck. There are lot media types that I have lunches with an pal around with all the time that will tell you that. Heck, there's even a few Jayhawk fans that feel that way too. They know it's luck. Great, great insight. Bad match ups. Damn committee. Put us in with Standford when they knew we had Embiid out. Then matched us up with WSU when, well, uh .. they were like better than us.

Q: Though, couldn't you have tried to adjust your game plan to deal with both of those teams, I mean try something a little different?

A: Like I've said before, that game planning stuff is crap. We play to our strengths.

Q: What was your strength this season?

A: Uh, uh .. I said perimeter shooting before the season. Kurtis?

Townsend: Don't say it, coach. The narrative is different now.

Q: But other coaches regularly change and adapt; they even do it game to game.

A: They do?

Q: Sure. Like Wiggins. He was a major match up advantage much of last season, why didn't you post him up?

A: Post him up??? A small forward? What planet are you on? Geez, get this guy. Post up a non-post player? We are talking basketball aren't we? We play a high/low with the post players in the paint. Silly talk.

Q: Have you watched Wiggins with Minnesota? How they spread the floor and use him there? The whole idea of maximizing his talent?

A: That's professional basketball. We're not professionals, sir.

Q: Let me ask this then .. why do you hate the three point shot?

A: Hate is a very strong word.

Q: Love is as well, coach; you know what I mean.

A: Look, I don't hate the three point shot. It's just unreliable. You're the Fool's Gold freak, aren't you?

Q: No, that's someone else. That was @HighEliteMajor. But everything does flow from my posting tree ...

A: Well, I do regret that comment. And I do admit to the world that my comment and how I handled practices and such sent our three point shooting into the tank. I regret that. @HighEliteMajor was right .....

Townsend: COACH!

A: ..... Uh, yea, right. NOT! That @HighEliteMajor is a dumb a**. Some guys think they know it all. Who does he think he is, John Wooden?

Q: No, that's me. I think I'm John Wooden. Wooden adapted to his talent.

A: Whoever you are, the three point shooting stuff is not real basketball. It's not reliable. There wasn't even a three point stripe for most of the history of basketball. I saw the Naismith rules. Nothing about three point shooting that I saw. The father of the game.

Q: Well, how do reconcile the fact that three Final Four teams shot over 19 threes a game, that each of those teams incorporate three point shooting as part of their offensive scheme, and that they create multiple situations to get those looks? Wisconsin and Duke shot boat loads of threes and got to the title game. MSU and Izzo have shot many more over the last two seasons than ever before. Isn't that adapting to their talent?

A: That's them. We're Kansas. We do it my way, as my buddy, @JayHawkFanToo, will surely attest. Get your nose out of there and come on up here?

Q: Hey, where was he? I didn't see him back there .... Anyway, coach, I'm here to interview you. Why do you hate the three?

A: Ok, but please don't tell anyone, agreed?

Q: Sure, agreed.

A: Well, when I was little, my dad and I were watching an old ABA game. Well, anyway, Artis Gilmore, big guy, squared up for a three. You remember those short, shorts they wore then?

Q; Yea ...

A: Well, Artis wasn't quite all tucked in, you get what I'm saying?

Q: I think so ..

A: It scared me. And it scarred me. I thought it was a little raccoon and he was keeping it in his shorts. And that he was hurting it. I figured it out a few years later, and when I asked my dad about it, he just said that Artis shouldn't have been shooting a three anyway. He was a post player. He should have stayed there and the whole thing wouldn't have happened. I guess I just have a phobia.

Q: You have a phobia of .. uh .. raccoons?

A: No, no. I have a phobia of three pointers. I love little raccoons. But the other is a real phobia. They bring back bad memories. Scars. A big guy should be in the paint. You win in the paint. And you won't see any raccoons you shouldn't see if no one shoots three pointers. No little raccoons will be hurt.

Q: Is that why you said you "hoped to hell they wouldn't" shoot threes?

A: Look, it wouldn't matter if they just played with a chip on their shoulders. The chip.

Q: You mean like one of my boys @drgnslayr, always says, right?

A: That guy? Doesn't he question whether we actually coach?

Q: That's the guy. My protege.

A: I really need to wrap this up. Gotta get out on the recruiting trail again. That Calipari is really a Thorn in my side, but I try to turn the other Cheick. This could be a Maker - break day ...

Townsend: Easy coach ....

Q: Sure, thanks for the time.

A: Now remember, some of this stuff is just between us. Sure you wouldn't like a jelly bean? Take one.

Q: Any red ones?

A: Kurtis, did you hear that. We have a comedian here.

Q: Well, ok, if you insist.

A: Perfect.

Q: Thanks for the jelly bean ... quite tasty. I do have another quick question or two - Don't you think that 11 conference championships in a row is the most impressive accomplishment in recent college basketball history? The true measure of greatness? How can anyone question your decisions, coach?

A: I have to go ... Feed the Post, and Prosper.

Q: Yes, Feed the Post, and Prosper.

(All Fiction, of course .. kind of. No Malice)

I agree completely with @FarSideHawk -- I'd take Selden over Newman, Brown, or whatever the presumed OAD, flavor of the month might be.

Remember my Roster Apocalypse post? Kind of far fetched .. was more centered on perimeter issues. I did not include the possibility of Ellis turning pro.

Right now, though, we have the possibility of going to battle with Bragg, Mickelson, Lucas, and Traylor in the post. What if Diallo goes elsewhere, and Thorne chooses Illinois?

And talk about a complete waste time, Thon Maker's camp is suggesting he might not enroll until the second semester, play a few months, then turn pro.

I would feel much better if we simply had a nice post player becoming a sophomore or junior with at least some back to the basket talent, and perhaps another 15-80 range guy coupled with Bragg in this class. Or even two guys that were not quite Bragg's McDonald's AA level if we didn't land Bragg -- again, the Texas A&M example.

I completely understand why these kids are doing this -- they are trying to do what's best for them. Zimmerman's mom is trying to do what's best for him. But those interests conflict with the Kansas basketball's best interests. More power to them, but more power to us.

Yea, I want Diallo and Thorne both. Mainly because I'm hopeful not to see Traylor on the court much next season. But I wonder if Self would make a shift in his approach if the Roster Apocalypse did hit with regard to post players? In the long term, would that ultimately be best for Kansas if it caused a change in our approach?

Is there literally anything better than @konkeyDong on recruiting? Good stuff.

Well, maybe an @jaybate-1.0 dissertation on WWII combat tactics as it relates to Wooden's zone press. But other than that ...

Edit

That is a great name .. I read about him this past weekend when I was looking at recruiting sites, but had seen that the recruiting said he was 100%Maryland. Here's the link ↗. But it looks like that is a bit old.

I looked up the SB Nation Article ↗ and that is from January 27, 2015. Wonder what he's doing now? That would seem too perfect. But I hadn't even seen the name beyond the 247 article.

@justanotherfan I understand your analysis, but I'm not quite on board with all it.

First, I don't want the Jamari Traylors or Landen Lucas' near our roster except as guys that will sit, learn, and develop. Not good examples for what I'm suggesting. And then, only if truly ready, would those type of guys play their junior and senior seasons (or if we get lucky and they're Derrick Williams). Right now, neither justifies a bigger role than 4th big, and then, in my mind, only Lucas.

Second, I don't think it necessarily assumes a Frank Kaminsky -- meaning an All-American. I think it assumes a Withey, or Morrises, or TRob (who was comparable to Kaminsky), or Jackson.

Third, you also have to consider the OAD. Thinking of OADs as the Okafer model is nice, for example -- studs. But how about the Cliff model? Not sure whether it was all Cliff .. I think Self just has a low tolerance for not "getting it." But OADs do flame out, and you have little time to cash in . Again, how much of KU's resources were lost on Cliff?

Finally, I would argue that Andrew White did improve enough to make the rotation. He showed it early in the 2013-14 season. He definitely performed. He just had a roadblock in Wiggins. There is no doubt White was better all around than Greene at the time. It's like the high school quarterback that could start at most schools in town, but a D-1 guy is a class ahead of him. No room. Self chose Greene for a reason over White, but it didn't appear to be because Greene was better at the time than White.

You are exactly right. It has to analyzed on a player to player basis. But the challenge is roster management. If you have a recruiting approach, then you eliminate variables. So, in hindsight, I would say, for example, that Wiggins was probably the better player vs. what White would have been in 2013-14. Not sure our team is better than it would have been. But I'm very comfortable is speculating that White would have given us more over the entire season than Oubre did. And now White would be going into his senior season. I just think that works better for a system guy like Self.

Inexact science to be sure,

@JayHawkFanToo You are correct -- it is all we are now left with. The other guys are committed. The 15-80 rate recruits are gone. We have hung our hat on this OAD dynamic, and now here we are, spring, and hanging on the edge. I looked at available players and there just aren't many at all. Are there folks you think are in play? I recalled Mason's name being discussed for a while before his commitment, as a guy on the radar. And that was in the early period. Heck, we're really late now. I would think anyone we get is unranked, high risk, Lucas/Traylor level.

@justanotherfan - So if we get Newman and Brown, you're fine then with some of our current perimeter players transferring? Guys aren't going to stick around if that happens, right?

@benshawks08 - you said "To me it seems any of the bigs would start beside Perry next year, if not at the beginning of the year, at least by the end" -- I would hope so. There is no post player on our current roster other than Ellis that has any business starting, much less being the first big off the bench, at Kansas. It would seem that this past season offered us that fairly definitive answer.

@wrwlumpy - Yea, I think Svi will start over Greene. And I think he should start over Selden. Svi showed me that he is more valuable in Self's system than either player -- emphasis on "Self's system."

I'd have no problem starting Greene in an appropriate system. In fact, I would have him shooting threes until he cried uncle. But his skill set is not valued highly enough, nor is it exploited, in Self's system.

Both Greene and Selden are poor ball handlers, neither can score at the rim, Greene can barely get to the rim. Selden is a better defender than Greene, but after the abuse he took against WSU, and his shaky performances this season, he is no where near the defender we had hoped.

Svi showed he is an excellent defender, that he is a vastly superior defender than Greene, that he is a much better ball handler than both Greene and Selden, that he can operate in the open court, that he can distribute the ball on the run, and that he is the best on the team at the fabled post entry pass from the wing -- again, focusing on Self's system. His shooting lagged a bit, which I just chalk up to age/experience.

This is why I still think a Greene transfer is still possible (despite what his dad said). Further, if we sign a wing -- Ingram, Brown or Newman -- that's six perimeter players. Greene would be really low on the pecking order. Heck, I don't think a Selden transfer is out of the question.

Here's Selden's quote after the WSU game -- “I struggled early and I let my team down,” Selden said. “I wasn’t there from the beginning. I wasn’t there on the defensive end. I didn’t do anything to help the team and I wasn’t scoring. I just feel bad.”

I'm just puzzled how a kid this highly ranked is such a no show for the WSU game, and for so many games this season. He seems to be a Self favorite, starting every game. But you never know if there might be some disconnect. From a practical standpoint, the kid's professional stock has done nothing but go down at Kansas.

I do think Selden can turn it around though. But if I could have Svi or Selden for next season, I'd take Svi. And in Self's system, I'd take Svi over Greene as well.

Dang, unbelievable. What great memories we will have though. He is and always will be a Jayhawk. I can't wait to see him return to AFH. This is what Kansas basketball is all about.

Shoot me now.

@brooksmd @BeddieKU23 - I had heard that Hunter is not graduating in May. But that was a few months ago.

Thorne could be in our main five if we miss on the slog of OADs -- really, Diallo seems like the only realistic post OAD now. So, if Diallo goes here, probably no Thorne. If Diallo doesn't, "starting at center, Mike Thorne."

That's assuming Cliff is gone and Perry stays.

Ok, then .. if we are offering advice to coach Self, would it be then to avoid OADs all together, except the game changing center and/or the game changing point guard?

That would mean no Wiggins, no Oubre, no Cliff. But Embiid would be ok? -- (understanding Embiid may not have been a publicly presumed OAD when he signed, but probably was considered that by Self. We know Pitino said in June/2013 that we could have the top 2 picks in the draft -- they knew).

I would say, though, that it was the entire package at Duke. The highly talented group of players. They do not win that title in my opinion if they were lacking either Jones or Okafer, and likely not if they were lacking Winslow.

However, suppose you took just Okafer and air-dropped him into Kansas? Right now.

Mason, Svi, Selden, Ellis, Okafer.

Bragg, Greene, Graham, Lucas off the bench.

Thus the dilemma. That looks pretty good.

Is Diallo that good?

@justanotherfan Curious as to why you would not think that Self has enough respect from NBA guys? I guess my initial reaction would be that he is in a small group that kind of commands immediate respect from all in the hoops world -- guys like Self, K, Roy, Pitino, Donovan, Izzo, and Boeheim. The next level down, I think, would present challenges in that regard. Guys like Ryan, Few, Matta, etc.

I also think a guy like Hoiberg, who was more of an NBA guy to begin with, would be a natural fit. And actually, he's the guy I think is most likely to get it.

@Hawk8086 We did pursue Davis. Actually, we were the favorite for Davis ↗. But you can understand a kid in his spot .. knowing we're pursuing the OADs .. going elsewhere. Not sure if others buy this argument, but I think our pursuit of OADs negatively affects our ability to land the next group, like Davis.

@Hawk8086 You have hit on the exact issue. Would you rather have a guy like Tyler Davis for 3-4 seasons, to develop. Or, would you rather have the chance of getting Towns or Zimmerman. And then, if you get one, your back at it the next season. If you don't land one, then you're hurting. Would you have rather had Embiid then Cliff, or a post player in the 15-80 range that would now be a junior? Or two?

Instead Davis, just replace him with the guys from our past ... with Jackson, or Kaun, or Aldrich, or Arthur, or Morris, or Morris, or TRob, or Withey?

Or would you rather jump on the OAD merry go round?

Hard to argue with Towns, or guy like Okafer, of course. But the issue becomes the next season. And the next. Can you keep landing them? UK has. No one else really has, though,

A few points on the OAD discussion. Great stuff above from everyone.

1. Back To The Basket Scoring And Development: This element of the game is an absolute must in Self's system. This is not tied directly to height. I've seen the comments and posts about "5s" and "centers" and "footers." That's not crucial. It is back to the basket scoring. Wayne Simien was probably 6'7" at best. But a bad ass back to the basket scorer. In 2008, Arthur (a skilled sophomore) and Jackson (a seasoned senior) could score with their backs to the basket. So could Kaun. In 2012, we had TRob (the best under Self) and Withey. That's the biggest answer to being successful in Self's system. Back to the basket scoring. Self is impotent without it. We learned that this season. We know what Self needs. The pursuit of OADs has put us in a dilemma with back to the basket scoring. Why is that? Very simple. Back to the basket scoring is largely developed. You'll have the Okafer, or the Towns, or even the Embiid. But those are very few and far between. We have not developed back to the basket scoring, which is crucial to Self's system.

2. Shocking Post Recruiting Stats: This is "hold on to your hat" stuff. It is shocking. Since we landed Thomas Robinson in the class of 2009, six recruiting class ago (including 2015), we have landed two post recruits in 15 - 80 range. Two. Perry Ellis and Carlton Bragg. That's it. However, we have had a parade of low or unranked guys, and transfers -- Traylor, Lucas, Anderson, Young, Peters, Mickelson, and Black. In six recruiting classes of recruiting OAD post men, we have landed two, Joel Embiid and Cliff Alexander. That's it.

3. Non-OADs Present More Breadth: When you look at the recruiting world, think of it as a funnel, with highest talent at the narrow end. When you get in the 15-80 range, you find many guys that would fit Self's bill. Guys that he could bring in, develop, and present as an excellent product as a sophomore, and a tremendous product as a junior. Don't believe it? Just look at Self's history here. Just list them off. The key here is locating players that fit the need for back to the basket post scoring -- guys that can be developed, that have that propensity, that just need time. With OADs, you don't have that time. Cliff didn't have that time.

4. Creating A Stable: The OAD merry go round puts Kansas in a position of need each season, doesn't it? When you ignore the OADs, you have a better opportunity to create a stable of players that will churn over from year to year. The idea is to have players ready each season. This is not as difficult as it sounds. Most guys in the 15-80 range stay at least three seasons, and most in the latter half say four seasons. If you land an average of 1.5 per season, you are set. But of course, it is never easy or automatic. At Kansas, though, with Bill Self at the helm, this should be more than attainable.

5. What Caused Our Post Issues: @stupidmichael noted our possible post dearth after next season. Why are we here? In my humble opinion, it was the "all in" miss on Tarczewski. We can look at the prior season when the Morrises left. But striking out a second season in a row, I believe, steered Self to the pursuit of the OAD. We were left with Lucas. This left us in a lurch when we didn't land the 15 - 80 guys to build on.

6. Look At Texas A&M's Class: If I said to you, "Would you trade our post class right now, whoever that might end up being, for Texas A&M's", you might think I'm crazy. But try Tyler Davis (#21 ESPN), 6'10", 270 lbs. We were on his final list. And Elijah Thomas (#29) 6'9", 230 lbs. We weren't in the mix. But isn't this the kind of class we need? Why can't we get that? It's going to be awful hard to land that second post guy behind a Bragg when we're after Diallo, Maker, Zimmerman -- call guys that could bump that second guy to third. And then also behind a returning Ellis. This is our dilemma. Texas A&M's class would be a dream post class for us right now.

The most important issue is whether the OAD formula works at Kansas. That is all that matters. To date, it has been a complete and utter failure. Some suggest you have to recruit the best talent. That's nonsense. We need to recruit to fit our system. Period. Top talent doesn't always fit the system. And top talent still, most times, takes time to develop. Further, it takes time in Self's system.

The is all about knowing who you are. Self isn't Calipari (thank goodness). He has a different tolerance levels, and a different approach. He's different teacher. The key is matching your recruiting with your approach. We might get lucky from time to time .. we might get an Okafor. But the tried and true method, the kind that Self thrives with, has been established. Why go any other way? All that matters is having players that fit Self's system, and thrive in that system.

This all goes to the point of back to the basket scoring. What is the best way to get that? We know. We've seen it.

The benefit we get out of OADs isn't worth the investment. And as noted above, national titles, final fours, and conference titles can all be won ... and regularly are .. without an OAD on the roster.

I personally think Calipari is an excellent coach. But like all coaches, he has some strengths and weaknesses. He obviously takes young players and blends them well. That is a challenge with OADs, individual agendas, etc. More so than a normal team. High talent, big egos, means a bigger timebomb. He got guys to buy into less PT this season. No issues with guys playing hard. He makes decent adjustments, notably going zone at a crucial time vs. UConn in last year's title game. He gets his kids ready to play each and every game. And he took a team last season that needed a bit of time and go them playing at their peak when it counted.

Cal is an amazing coach. I just wouldn't want him coaching at Kansas. No thanks. I just don't like him personally. I don't like his smugness, nor the trail of vacated FF's. And I don't like the whole OAD sideshow that he engineered. Never once will you hear me complain that we could or should do what UK has done.

Ah, @JayHawkFanToo is back. It was amazing how nice things have been around here the last few weeks. Smooth, respectful conversations. But it changes. @dylans obviously had a very difficult personal experience, but you have to tell him why he shouldn't think that way. I'm surprised you didn't post a link showing Wichita to be one of the top 20 places to live. That surely would have convinced him that his unfortunate personal experience shouldn't color his view of the town.

How hard is this? @dylans tried to stop the conversation, said he'd chat privately with you. And you then posted another three paragraphs telling everyone again what you are "simply saying."

Then you come back again with the tired old "last post on the subject." How many other folks here ever really have to go there?

Another thing to remember .. this struck me when I read the KC Star article on WCS.

That was the recruiting class where Self admittedly went "all in" on Kaleb Tarczewski. That left us without options. We made a late push at Tony Parker as I recall after Tarc committed to AZ. We ended up with Landen Lucas.

Will be interesting the see Cameron Ridley play the "havoc" style that Smart implements. Would sure like to have Ridley's big body at Kansas.

Does anyone really believe that Kansas has to live like this?

It is ridiculous. Recruit guys that need Kansas to get to the NBA. It is that simple.

The idea that we have to recruit the "best talent" is utter and complete nonsense.

Look at it this way ... do you want the hottest woman as your wife? That would be nice, but there are many other things to consider that make it work. Looks (or talent) is just one element -- important, mind you, but there are many other things to consider.