🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@mayjay

I did not say who is the better coach between Weber and Martin, all I said is both had just about identical records against KU and both won games against KU with players they inherited and overall, Martin had the better players. Having said that, Weber has won Confernce titles in 3 conferences including the Big 12 while Martin's best finish is tying for second in the Big 12 and Weber trumps Martin's Final Four with a Title game appearance.

I have always been a big fan of Coach Martin, even when he was not popular. I don't really care much for Weber.

@Crimsonorblue22

Considering how much elite refs get paid...I sure would...:smiley:

@mayjay said:

Did you even read my post? Way to take things out of context.

You said:

"That tie for the Big 12 championship? Again, success with another coach’s recruits – Frank Martin’s after he ran out of Silo T as fast as he could."

You indicate that Frank Martin is a great coach yet his record against KU is 2-9 and one of the wins was on his first game against KU with Huggy's players including POY Michael Beasley while Weber and his rag tag band is 2-10; essentially the same record.
You also mentioned Shaka Smart, last season Weber went 2-0 against Texas and its much higher ranked players and 2-1 against Baylor, including a win when Baylor was ranked #2.

You said:

"You can admire him all you want, but to me he strikes no chord remotely sounding like good."

what part of:

I personally don’t care for him but I will grudgingly admit he is not a bad coach.

is so hard to understand? I did not say he was a great coach, I said he was not a bad coach. I posted his record so people can decide for themselves how good...or bad, he is. You obviously think he is bad, I happen to think he is not bad. Reasonable people can have reasonably disagreements, right?

Calvert from BYU? I don't believe he is a KU level player.

Welcome to AFH Thunder Dome...

Coach Self

And now, I've got fourteen men — fourteen men with a gut full of fear. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, dying time's here!

KU Fans...

Fourteen men enter; thirteen men leave!

Fourteen men enter; thirteen men leave!

Fourteen men enter; thirteen men leave!

I believe we all agree that Coach Weber is not a good recruiter, but he is not a bad coach either. Here is his complete coaching record:

!0_1494605471204_upload-d25d2506-57cd-43b3-a4d6-6a3f98532ba0 ↗

He did very well at Southern Illinois and it got him the job at Illinois. At Illinois he did extremely well with Self players and went to the Final in his second year but he also finished second twice and 4th twice in what at the time was a very strong Big 10 Conference.

In his first year at KSU, if not for a loss in the last game of the season to OSU and a KU win, KSU would have won the Conference and the streak would have been over.

I find it interesting that people say he is such a lousy recruiter and poor coach but with his second rates players he has beaten KU and came one Svi play short of almost winning at AFH last season. Not bad for a coach that can only recruit scrubs and cannot coach.

Yes, he is annoying and his voice is like nails on a chalkboard, but he can coach and he seems to be principled in the way he will dismiss players that break the rules, even when the team, and by extension his own record, will suffer.

It is OK if we don't like him but we need to be also fair. Don't we always point out that KU fans are some of the more knowledgeable and fair fans around? Let's show some of that knowledge and fairness and leave the personal bias behind and give credit where credit is due.

I personally don't care for him but I will grudgingly admit he is not a bad coach.

@Kcmatt7

Isaiah Thomas played well all along (2nd team All_Rookie) and in his year with Phoenix he had surgery and was injure and although did not star at a lot of games he still played a lot of minutes. His stats are very good all along and he was traded not because he was not a good player but because he had decent trade value and there were team interested in his skill set. Had he not had the setting to showcase his skills, he might not be where he is now. Just sayin'...

!0_1494599068584_upload-52d81195-0dda-46c7-a5a6-9f20c99d3f2b ↗

Here is another...

!0_1494597933492_upload-c9de0793-d256-4f21-8e28-427cbf957da0 ↗

Here are a couple of tweets related to Svi and Frank...

!0_1494597821204_upload-0aa07312-0820-42cf-839a-bb0a3e96ca92 ↗

@BeddieKU23

I have seen a couple of mock drafts that now have Mason in the first round. I am guessing that it will depend in great part on what players are available at any particular time and what are the needs of the team selecting.

@Kcmatt7

You mean like Isaiah Thomas that was selected at #60 with the last pick of the draft? :smirk:

@BeddieKU23

Ojeleye was a split decision and the reason to go was because he is already 23 years old and has graduated.

@justanotherfan

This is what I meant in my original post when I said the times have changed. When I lived in a dorm, the RA was there settling arguments, breaking up fights, knocking on the door of the room with the loud stereo and helping out students with problems, both school related and personal . If this is not the job of the RA, then what is? You would think that in a dorm with only 40 students, half of them high profile athletes with no desire to get into trouble and the other half non-traditional, older students far removed from the rowdier crowds, the job would be easier and going out on the hallway to find out the cause of the noise would be fairly safe. Like I said...oh how times have changed.

@justanotherfan

I guess what I was trying to say is...why wasn't the RA on the hallway figuring out what was going on? Isn't this his job? With cell phones it is even easier now.

Frank is very athletic and likely more athletics than many taller players. He indicated that he has been measured at 5'-11-3/4" without shoes; this is taller than what I/we thought his height was. At KU he was listed at 5'-11" and we know that KU adds a little height to players. :smile:

Here is a report of the 911 call. ↗ Looks like the incident started at 10:00 PM and, if I recall correctly, we figure out in a previous thread ha the players did not get to the building until after 11:30 PM.

Interesting that the person that made the call identified himself as a Resident Assistant and yet he would not even go to the hallway to see what was happening. When I was in college and living in a dorm, the RAs were the law and they would have been there making sure things did not escalate..oh how things have changed.

@justanotherfan

Interesting numbers. The question is how many players under 6 feet are there in he NBA? How does the percentage of players under 6 feet with high PER compare with other heights? I will guess that the percentage is higher indicating that players under 6 feet that make it to the League will generally be higher performers because only the elite players under 6 feet make it to the League.

@dylans

The new concealed and carry law kicks in the first of July of this year and colleges are no longer able to ban guns except under specific circumstances as I indicated. It will be a whole new ballgame.

No doubt that Frank Mason and Perry Ellis are two of my all time favorite KU players; they represent everything that is good about college sports.

@Statmachine

Shoe companies would get in a world it trouble if they are found paying HS kids. At one time Nike used to pay people like Myron Piggie to run shady AAU teams and funnel money to athletes but a lot of that is now illegal and the shoe companies funnel money through guys like Wide World Wes and keep their distance. I have no doubt that players talk to agents but they would take a huge risk if they get money upfront; I am sure some do but probably not prevalent.

Many of the top players play in more than one brand a Summer League and the allegiance to just one brand is fading. I have heard a number of top recruits state that a program's brand contract is not a factor in selecting where to play; I believe there was one prospect that said he had a brand preference and he quickly backpedaled. I believe Wiggins and Jackson played for Nike teams and yet they ended up at KU.

@Crimsonorblue22

Interesting but the rules do not even mention guns even when the new state law allowing concealed carry goes into effect the first of July. I understand that the school can ban guns at locations and events (generally with more than 5,000 people) where it can demonstrate it can provide enough security but one would think that if this is the case it would be mentioned front and center, right?...unless they don't believe the team will draw 5,000 fans.

If they want more fans to come to the games, they sure are making it more difficult. ↗ You can no longer bring your seat back and you have to rent one at the stadium. You can bring a camera but you cannot bring a camera case to protect it. Most women's purses are also banned.

!0_1494364035919_upload-496b7298-eb5b-40a2-b7e0-31419cc45ab6 ↗

If he continues to shoot like this he is gone...probably first round.

This is what Coach Self thinks...

!0_1494352887043_upload-47aa95da-40ad-4e57-9c09-a4035542e191 ↗

Seth Greenberg thinks Mason will make it to the NBA ↗ and will be a starter.

Here is a fairly recent list of contracts. If you look at the top 10, 4 are UA, 3 Adidas and 3 Nike. If you look at he top 15, 7 are Adidas and 4 each UA and Nike. KU is #12...imagine what KU would get if it had a football team...I mean one tha wins consistently and contends nationally like the basketball team does.

Having said that, a big component is exposure and small market KU will never be able to compete with huge market UCLA, the OSU, Texas or Norte Dame.

@justanotherfan

Iwundu is a first round pick in most every mock draft and with a good combine Motley can move from borderline to solid first round. CBS has Mason in the first round at #29. Too much variability outside the top 15 to state with certainty what the actual breakdown will be; we will have to wait until the actual draft for that.

Let's keep in mind that of all the major basketball conferences, only the Big 12 and the Big East have 10 teams, all the other have more. ACC 15 teams, Big 10, SEC and A10 14 teams, PAC 12 and American 12 teams.

@KUSTEVE

I respectfully disagree. We did discuss his premise that KU was raiding the Colonial Conference and was proven to be incorrect. A clerical error, as you put it, is when you miss one school or misspell a name; however, when 8 of the 9 schools he cited are incorrect it goes way past clerical error; anyone that follows college basketball know that most of those schools were in the A10, which is a fairly well known conference and considerably better and better known than the Colonial.

If you look at the Wiki page for the Colonial Conference, the list of current teams is clearly indicated and teams with past affiliations are also clearly indicated with their current Conference affiliation in the same line in the table...nothing ambiguous about it.

Normally you use facts to develop a premise, you don't develop a premise and then create your own facts to justify it, particularly when the facts are so obviously incorrect.

@BeddieKU23

Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.

@jaybate-1.0

Let's see. Out of the 9 schools you said belonged to the Colonial Conference 8 were incorrect. Of the 7 transfer players that you said were raided from East schools, 6 were incorrect. Now, if you missed 1 or 2 you can see it as an careless error; however, when just about ever name you named is wrong, gross mischaracterization is the proper, shall we say characterization?...or else we can go with @mayjay premise.

As to why you would cite incorrect information, this one is easy. You formulated premises with no facts to back them up so you cited incorrect facts to fit your obviously flawed premise. SOP for politicians and either you are one or should be one...on the other hand, this is not the type of politician we should have; too many like this already.

I am not sure if this has already been mentioned but apparently Chandler Lawson, AKA the "third" brother was offfered a schoolie by KU. ↗ several other offers are mentioned in the article.

@dylans

Unless you have your own manufacturing facilities, the cost of a limited run of high end shoes is likely very high and the profit margin very thin.

I seriously doubt he is going to sell many of these shoes and he has already poisoned the well with the firms that could have made a shoe deal possible for the kid. The idiot dad screwed his kid royally.

Durant just shoved Gobert a lot harder than Oubre did and got a T but did not get expelled, double standard much? Even the game announcers indicated that if Oubre got expelled and suspended Durant should have been too.

BTW, Oubre was one of the top topics on a Twitter and posters are overwhelmingly in favor of Oubre.

@jaybate-1.0

What exactly am I missing? You indicated that KU is raiding East Schools for transfer player and yet, of the 7 transfer players currently at a KU, 6 are from the South or West and only one might be from the East.

Earlier, you mentioned a number of schools that you claimed were in the Colonial Conference and yet all but one were in conferences other than the Colonial.

Again, my posts were not about the transfer issue but about your gross mischaracterization of conference membership and player geographical origin. @mayjay theory is starting to sound more plausible.

jaybate 1.0 said:

Despite my apparent misreading of the CAA wiki page (I haven't gone back to check), an important point remains. Self appears potentially to be moving further down market and into cherry picking mid-major players in the east.

Newman - Mississippi State

Coleby - Ole Miss

Cunliff - Seattle/ Arizona State

Dedric Lawson - Memphis

K.J. Lawson - Memphis

Moore - Cal

Whitman - W&M.

1 out of 7? How exactly is he cherry picking programs in the East? Looks more like the South and West.

Are you OK? You seem to be way off your game lately.

FWIW, Oubre has been suspended for game 4 ↗, not really a big surprise. I wonder how the next games will be called considering how the series has gone so far...

Be as it may...the conference is still strong. The very early 2018 Bracketology ↗ has 7 teams in and 2 more in the first 4 out and the next 4 out groups. Amazing how well the conference does with the talent it gets.

@jaybate-1.0

The Wiki page is correct, you are reading it incorrectly, as @mayjay pointed out.

@mayjay

Again, Olynik had been doing the same thing over and over and that was the first and only time it was called for it and either the refs were not aware of it or just were not calling it; if you see the replay, Olynik was vigorously arguing with the ref...never mind, we just see it differently, let's move on.

@jaybate-1.0

I am not sure where you are getting your information but essentially all the schools you cited Are not in the CCA and are not associated members in basketball either.

George Mason University. - A10

East Carolina University - American Conference

Old Dominion University - C-USA

University of Richmond (remember the Spiders?) - A-10

St. Francis University - NorthEast

Virginia Common Wealth - A10

UMass - A10

Rhode Island - A10

@mayjay

Whoa there. You are taking my words out of context. I have already said that I did no agree with what Oubre did; however, if you watched the game you probably saw how many time Olynyk got away with it until the final encounter with Oubre and he became useless after that and going forward it will be more difficult for him to get away with the illegal screens since they refs will be watching. Definitely not the best or recommended way to do it.

Physical play clearly favors the Celtics who play a lot of players compared to Washington who has a short bench; if Oubre's action help the refs to get a tighter rein on the game and make it less physical, then it might not be as bad as it looks now.

@mayjay

On the other hand, Olynyk that had averaged 18 mpg, 10 points, 5 rebound and 2 assists in the previous 10 games, played only 12 minutes, and had 1 point, 1 rebound and 1 assist and the Celtics never recovered and now the refs will keep a very close watch on him which will effectively neutralize his usual game.

The refs take a lot of the blame for this game that saw 8 Ts called and 3 players ejected. Both coaches and players from both team complained about the refereeing after the game. Keep in mind that as many illegal and hard screens as Olynyk had set, the foul called on that play was the first and only foul called on him. I am sure the NBA is having a long talk with that officiating crew.

Six players have transferred out of Memphis and there is a lot of talk on whether Tubby was the right hire for the program. Smith is still milking the few good seasons he had at UK, mostly with Pitino players. His two stops after UK were nothing to write home about. Orlando "Tubby" Smith is very overrated in my opinion.

I actually watched the game. Olynyk kept setting illegal screens and driving his forearm onto Oubre's face and whoever else he was guarding; it happened more than once. The last one was pretty vicious and the ref called a foul on him and he was vigorously arguing wit the ref when Oubre gave him the shove. Yes, it was a hard shove but Olynyk is not a small guy and looked like he did a Smart...

In the first two games the Celticas have been very physical, one might even say dirty, and Washington finally had enough of it. I imagine the League will want to send a message and there is a good chance Oubre will be the proverbial sacrificial lamb; I believe it is mandatory for a flagrant 2 foul. It is also possible that the League will watch video and assess a T on Olynyk after the fact.

I don't necessarily condone what Oubre did but I do understand why he did it. In the League you have to establish a rep that you will not get take dirty plays lightly and will stand your ground, otherwise it will happen all the time. I have caught a dozen Wizzard games throughout the season and all the playoff games and I have never seen Oubre this upset. Olynyk has reputation for being a hard working but dirty player and it showed last evening.

@RockkChalkk

I saw that information ↗ but it really does not add up since two of the 3 current assistants are making well over $200K and the third $180K. Hard to believe he was making only $100K.

@HighEliteMajor

If I understand correctly, The father was an assistant coach under Pastner and was demoted to director of Player Personnel, a non-coaching position under Tubby; salary cut in half???

@drgnslayr

I am not sure Tait offers much in the way of new information, just a rehash of what has been discussed already. I am sure Coach Self has a plan that has been fully vetted by people a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than us.

@Crimsonorblue22

Again, I personally did not see him play at all, but the consensus, from what I have read on various publications and many post in this forum, appears to be that his ceiling is that of Jamari Traylor since both players are about the same size and have similar games. I have seen highlight videos (FWIW) of both Juiston and Whitman and I personally think Whitman is the more polished player at this time.

Again, this is just my opinion.

Many think Malik is due to have a monster season... ↗