🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@Crimsonorblue22

Why do you take any comment about Juiston personally? Did you read the part where I wrote he dominated JuCo? What part of my comments on Juiston do you feel is incorrect? If you feel I have it wrong, please state your opinion and maybe I will change my mind. I don't claim my post to be facts just my personal opinion; when I quote facts, I normally cite a source.

No, I have not seen him play personally but I have read plenty about him from sports reporters that saw him play and I have seen plenty of JuCo games to know the level of play is generally low. Yes, there are the occasional Jimmy Buttler (who only played 1 year at JuCo), Cleanthony Early of Jae Crowder, but generally, most JuCo players end up at a mid-major or minor Division I and not at elite programs.

I don't know how Juiston will do at the next level and based on his background, I hope he does great, but this is not what my post was about. I was simply comparing two players that could have ended up at KU (one did) and which one would contribute more at this time...in my opinion , of course.

Juiston is not coming to KU. Let's move on.

If the choice was between Whitman and Juiston, I would choose Whitman every time. Whitman has size, good skills and actual Division I experience and, if as a grad transfer, he can contribute as much a Tarik did, it would be great. Juiston has played (and dominated) JuCo competition but it is a far cry from Division I competition and we don't know how his game will translate to the next level. Juiston is a tweener with a high ceiling of Jamari Traylor, who was a contributor but not a key player, and he would play either SF or undersized PF but we already have players at that position where Whitman does fill a void.

@drgnslayr

I agree. I have mentioned repeatedly that Isaiah Thomas is the right comparison fro Frank and Frank might actually be better. The better Thomas does the more it helps Mason.

@wissox

How exactly sabermetrics, a baseball stat, affects basketball? You are just looking at the missed FTs in isolation and not at the baskets scored as a direct result of those misses. Newell looked at the entire analysis in context and he also came to the conclusion that FTs were not the reason KU lost; 3 point shooting by both teams had a considerably larger effects and I do agree with him. This does not make me or you right or wrong, we just see it differently, agree?

@mayjay

OTOH, how about the positive psychological effect of getting offensive rebounds after missed free throws...which is no easy task?

@dylans

I like your list and one could argue that Owens could be 5 instead of 6. If you go by coaching only, Naismith would be last since he did not believe in coaching and he is the only KU coach with a losing record.

Self and Allen is an interesting comparison and one that is difficult to make. First, they coached in different eras and there is no question that it is a lot more difficult to win now than it was 60-90 years ago, so the advantage goes to Self. However, when you consider Allen's overall contribution to coaching, advantage goes to Allen. At this time I would agree that Allen is at the top but by the time Coach Self is done, he could well be at the top.

Interesting that 3 of the top 5-10 coaches of our generation, Brown, Williams and Self coached at KU. Brown will never get enough credit as a college coach because he never stayed with one program long enough to develop a legacy and everywhere he coached he left the program on probation; KU came within a wisker of getting the death penalty and we did not even find out the details until many years later. Great coach that cut way too many corners.

No question that whe looking at KU only Coach Self rates higher than Williams but when you consider their entire careers, Coach William would be higher by virtue of his more recent titles, although Coach Self has plenty of time to catch up and pass Coach Williams. Anyone that thinks Coach Williams is not a great coach is simply being disingenuous.

@mayjay

I agree. Statistically speaking, the per 40 is similar to the models used by KenPom and Sagarin that get better as the sample size increases but are wildly unpredictable with small samples. The per 40 stat is better suited when players average at least 20 minutes. Players that average less than 10 minutes are in the game for situations that call for their specific strength or at the end of games, neither a typical game environment.

In Alexander and Diallo's cases, the per 40 stat really is misleading because based on their on game stats they would never play 40 minutes...unless the NCAA allows 12-15 fouls before fouling out.

@Kcmatt7

I just don't see any player taking just one class while waiting for a scholarship. First, it is a huge waste of time sitting around for a year and no responsible parent would go along with it and second and more importantly, the optics would be horrible, the comparisons to Calipari and his NBA waiting room would be all over and I just don't see Coach Self agreeing to this, no way, no how.

Whitman and Coleby are just about the same size but Whitman appears to be the more polished player and fully healthy to boot. If Coleby transfers out, I can see where Whitman could step right in with no downside and perhaps a better offense. Coleby out, Whitman in, I call at worst a wash and at best an improvement with the extent to be determined.

@brooksmd

Rick Allen from Def Leppard works pretty hard since he only has one arm. Now, this drummer works pretty hard...

[hard working drummer...](https://m. ↗

@Fightsongwriter

Maybe you could be just a tad more open minded and consider that the numbers are fairly simple to run and the calculation do not at all indicate or even imply that every missed free throw had to be converted, only enough so the overall effect of the missed free throws is neutralized which apparently was the case in this particular game

I understand that it is counter intuitive to what we are conditioned but when you have a team that is good at offensive rebounds, it can indeed compensate for poor free throw shooting. As always, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

@Fightsongwriter

That is NOT what I said; please reread my original post.

@mayjay

I have a couple of hundred LPs from the 70s and 80s that I still listen although not that often anymore. Nothing like vinyl on a good B&O turntable with NAD pre-amp and amplifier with Boston Acoustics 42" speakers on the front and Genesis III speakers on the back while shooting pool. Heart, Fleetwood Mac and Boston are my favorites when I feel the need to crank up the volume.

When the City of New York alone recognizes 31 different types of gender ↗, most of which I had never heard before, the "stereotyped version of gender" went out the window a while back...and it is not coming back any time soon.

@Fightsongwriter @wissox

It actually makes sense. If you miss the first free throw but grab the rebound and score then you are not any worse than making both free throws. If you make the first free throw, miss the second but grab the rebound and score then you are one up over making both free throws.

As long as the missed free throws were rebounded by KU and a score followed then it makes sense that the missed free throws were not a negative factor. Most of the time, the defense will grab the missed free throws so this is obviously not a good strategy but in this particular case, when you look at all the missed free throws in question and the follow up plays, they did not appear to hurt KU.

@Kcmatt7

No, keep the information coming by all means.

It is just strange considering how positive Coach Self has been about Mitch in the not too distant past. Like I said, it sounded more like comments we would see in the more contentious boards or something @elpoyo would post. We will find out in about 3 months.

@jaybate-1.0

Naismith was involved with the NAIA but not the NCAA. In 1937 the first Tournament for small colleges was held at Municipal Auditorium in KC organized by Naismith and KC businessmen. In 1940, the National Association for Intercollegiate Basketball (NAIB) was formed in Kansas City, Missouri and in 1952, the NAIB was transformed into the NAIA.

Phog Allen created the National Association of Basketball Coaches, which went on to create the NCAA tournament.

Kcmatt7 said

I just haven't heard good things about Lightfoot in practice. I heard he should be playing down the road at Baker...

Sound like something @elpoyo would post.😄

@dylans

The Fieldhouse is named after Phog Allen, the basketball court is named after James Naismith. I am not sure if this is what you meant.

@mayjay @HighEliteMajor

I guess being older gives us a different perspective. Most of us older folks that endures some of the, shall we say less succesful seasons under Coach Owens, really appreciate how well KU has done under both, Coach Williams and Coach Self, and although we have not had as many titles as we would like, the program as a whole is probably the best it has ever been and the long term prospect is even better.🍾🏆

@KUSTEVE

Marfieff is critical to the success of his team. Washington started the game on a 20-0 run and after Markieff was gone the team fell apart.

@Kcmatt7

Hmm, no. Look at the posts above and you will find another incident when he was given a parking ticket that shows he is indeed a punk.

@DoubleDD

It does not faze me at all.

Back when Coach William was at KU, the athletic and by extension the recruiting budget was very limited and a fraction of what it is today and regional recruiting was a lot more cost effective, this is why coaches tended to concentrate recruiting in certain areas and very few programs recruited nationally.

At that time KU was what it is today and not really considered an elite program and recruiting the East Coast and its basketball hot beds and going agains the powerful ACC and Big East programs was not the best use of recruiting expenses; the Mid West and West Coast were wide open with only a handful of top tier programs. KU is in a completely different place now, with elite status a huge budget and all the resources needed; this is a huge change from 20-25 years ago.

How you see this issue is dependent on how old you are. Younger people tend to think of KU's basketball program as always having been what it is today including its budget and resources; it was not. Under Ted Owens KU had a good program but not even close to what it is now. It was only when Larry Brown came that KU started to move up and then Coach Williams really brought the program to elite status.

From my perspective, Coach Williams did extremely well at KU and with a couple of lucky breaks it could have at least two more titles.

More importantly, are we going to have the same conversation about Coach Self in 20 years?

@BeddieKU23

With the OAD rule the better and more ready players are drafted after one year in college. Players with natural talent but with technical flaws often need 2 years. The longer a player stays in college, the more likely it is that he is more of a trained than a natural talent and has probably maxed out development wise and the chances are smaller to make it to the NBA. Young natural talent can be developed in the League since it is still largely undeveloped. Of course there are exceptions but the overall trend is what it is. It is not surprising to see less and less seniors invited.

If you are a NBA GM, would you select a senior that is pretty ready but maxed out in his development or a freshman that is not nearly as ready but with more natural talent and a much higher ceiling?

@Hawk8086

In this case it does because daddy Ball is also his agent.

@approxinfinity

I would think that is is a long shot. Former players that became successful coaches tend to the players that spend a lot of time on the bench observing and learning rather than playing. Of course there are exception such as Bird, KC Jones, Bill Russell, Billy Cunningham that were star players and won championships or were successful a as coaches. Most of the better coaches that were also players such as Jackson, Pat Riley and more recently Steve Kerr and Tyrone Lue were more role players than stars.

@DoubleDD

While coaches, much like most everybody, have some allegiances to schools, again, much like everybody else, they have a primary allegiance to themselves and their own legacy regardless of school affiliation.

In my opinion, Coach William did everything he could to win a title to titles at KU and he came tantalizingly close in more than one occasion. Perhaps he though that it was more productive to recruit the central and western portion of the country where he had a geographic advantage over the elite programs than recruit the east where he was at a distinct disadvantge recruiting against the then East Coast powerhouses.

In short, I don't feel shortanged at all by Coach Williams and I believe he had a very successful tenure in Lawrence and left the program in a lot better shape than when he came in. I have no issue with him going back to UNC, we all knew it was a matter of time; I do have an issue with how he left and the blame for that points directly to KU alumn Dean Smith.

@BeddieKU23

Ball's father is a much larger issue than Jackson's legal issues that have been largely resolved and are now behind him. LaVar Ball will hang around for a while and be a constant PIA. If I were a GM, I would condition selecting Ball on him getting a different agent; no way I want to deal with daddy Ball on a daily basis.

@dylans

Nothing ambiguous about my post. Coach Williams was huge for KU any way you look at it. Even after winning in '88, KU was not quite an elite program, definitely not top 5 and likely not even top 10. Coach William brought KU to elite level and Coach Self took I up even further.

@Lulufulu

RussRob came to KU with a scorer reputation but was asked to take on a different role which almost caused him to leave KU. While his new role allowed KU to win a title, arguably lessened his chances at the next level. To me, RussRob will always be a critical component of the '08 title team.

@bskeet

Teahan has been out of basketball since he left KU; he works as a stock broker in KC and has not shown any interest in coaching.

@Blown

The missed free throws turned out too be a non factor. A while back someone took the time to analyze all the missed free throws and how many of those were rebounded by KU and led to scores and the net result was a wash or even a slight edge.

@approxinfinity

Not unusual for projected top picks to skip the combine or limit participation. If I recall correctly, neither Wiggins nor Embiid attended the combine.

Coach Williams has been gone for 14 years and as much as we like him or as many good things he did for KU, his legacy is primarily tied to UNC and only tangentially to KU. When the time comes to evaluate Coach Self's legacy, will anyone mention Oral Roberts or Tulsa or even Illinois? The answer is that it will be mentioned only anecdotally, much like KU and Coach Williams.

This topics would be better discussed at a UNC or even a Duke sports forum.

@HighEliteMajor

Wouldn't he have a better chance to start at a school that emphasizes academics over sports, i.e. higher academic profile school?

@BShark

Coleby played 2 years at Ole Miss, sat 1 year and played 1 year at KU, so it is possible that he has enough credits to graduate, transfer and play immediately elsewhere as a graduate transfer. I don't believe he has lived up to expectations at KU, a tall task for most ant players any way, and I don't believe he is NBA material either. A transfer to a higher academic profile school where he can play and get a Master's Degree sounds likde a reasonable option.

@DoubleDD

I cannot think of even one scenario where Coach Roy Wlliams is not huge positive for KU.

College and the NBA are two completely different stages and being great on one does not necessarily means it will translate to the next level.

I have mentioned Isaiah Thomas several times in relation to Mason and how teams should pay attention and consider Mason potential and how he can be a better version of Isaiah Thomas.

Having said that, Thomas was drafted with the very last pick of the draft.

Does anyone believe that these are the only two times he has done this? I am sure if you look deeper you will see a pattern that goes back to when he showed he could run over player by virtue of brute physical characteristics. Amazing that the team that had to deal with one Pacman Jones would select him.

Amazing and sad what has happened to our society where brawn is held in higher esteem than brains. This is the one thing I liked about the old Soviet Union where scientists were more respected than athletes and the older the more respect the received as experience was considered a positive thing and not a negative as our society, who worships youth and physical strength, does.

@jayballer54

The last day to withdraw from the draft is May 25. Unless Svi decides before then one way or another, chances are that we will have to wait until then to know for sure. I am sure there are dozens of programs that would gladly make room for Tilmon so I would not think there is much urgency on his part.

@drgnslayr

Tyler is in grad school and I wonder if he becomes a grad. assistant until he finishes his degree and then moves on. Sounds like the logical path.

Nice promotion from GM to president. Pritchard did a lot of good things for the Blazers but he will always be remembered for the selection of Greg Oden.

All the talk is that Paul George will leave the Pacers and it will take a complete rebuild to make the Pacers competitive. I bet he is figured out he is getting too old to deal with all that entails running a NBA franchise and another rebuild and wants to enjoy his retirement without the worries for a change. He is financially secure so money is not an issue.

@Big-Clyde52

Hansbrough is from Missouri not California.

@jaybate-1.0

I did not know Conner Teahan was a transfer...wait...I do know Conner Teahan was NOT a transfer. :smirk:

Daddy Ball and his big ego managed to really screw up his own son. Wait until Lonzo signs his first contract and drops daddy like a hot potato.

@HighEliteMajor

I am not sure Masson goes in the first round but teams shoul look at Isaiah Thomas that went #60 but on the re-draft he was picked #4. ↗

To the best of my recollection, only the Spurs by design sent the stars home before the last game of a series with the Miami Heat in 2012 and the League gave them a $250K fine. Teams will typically rest starters when they are injured or recovering from injuries or to give starters that have played a lot of minutes some rest before the playoffs. Players are very competitive and most would rather play and I don't see teams giving starters some rest as being a big issue. All teams in all sports do it to one extent or another; we see baseball players being rested all the time and it is really not that big of a deal.

@Lulufulu

What is?

@dylans

Oh, come on...that is the most natural, God given hair money can buy...:smiley: