🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@approxinfinity Do you think Dave getting going or Remy and Self figuring their crap out is more important to late season success?

To me it’s Remy/Self. This team has shown flashes of greatness already and those flashes have all involved Remy.

Look at KU's tournament history with Frank. KU never got over the hump because of the 5 because Lucas was a non factor. Getting Dave to where he was in conference play last year is far more important to KU's title hopes than Remy is at this point. Remy isn't the only option KU has at PG whereas Dave is the only option at the 5.

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Och is the option. If he’s gonna be the man he’s gotta be the man. He’s my pick.

Not today he shouldn't have been. Braun should've been the choice today.

Fully disagree. Och is getting the press for a player of the year type season. He’s the senior. He came back to be the go to guy. He’s scoring 20+ a game. He’s the most athletic and best shooter we’ve got. He’s shown more creating his own shot this season. He can catch and shoot coming off a screen. Pump fake and drive it, pull up for a mid-range shot.

Braun had a great game. But his points were mostly effort points and being in the right place at the right time in the flow of the offense. He wasn’t creating for himself or others. He wasn’t hot from deep. He doesn’t really have scoring threats outside of open threes and layups/dunks. I don’t know that we’ve EVER seen him in an ISO situation to know what he would even do there.

Sorry, but with how Ochai was shooting FT's today, hell no you don't get him driving there because Dayton would've fouled the shit out of him and put him on the line where he wasn't making shit today. And if you think Braun wasn't creating opportunities today, then you need to back and rewatch and look at the box score. 5 assists don't happen by accident and 8-12 with only one 3 point attempt doesn't happen by accident either. Braun had the ball in his hands a lot today and was by far KU's best playmaker today.

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Och is the option. If he’s gonna be the man he’s gotta be the man. He’s my pick.

Not today he shouldn't have been. Braun should've been the choice today.

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Jesse Newell has a piece about why the last play went the way it did. He argues it ended up with Dave in a bad spot because of Remy. Which seems accurate but the call was still to go to Dave which to me is a dang coaching mistake.

What are the other options on that play realistically? Ochai, who was 3 of 7 from the FT line today and wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the basket without getting hammered? Remy, who had reverted to his ASU form of taking too many bad shots? Dejuan Harris? Dayton didn't even bother guarding him on that sequence. It's telling that Braun had the ball in that situation and not either of the PG's. The play probably should've been an iso for Braun or McCormack setting a screen for Braun to clear out the paint for a drive.

@jayballer67 It's actually pretty impressive the women only lost by 10 to a team like Tennessee considering how bad they've been in recent years.

KU women only down 3 at halftime to Tennessee.

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 good comp of muscadin. Dave and Jalen played 48 minutes today, Zach and KJ played 4. If that shifts 10 minutes I think this is a win. Think KJ might be able to get a few of those boards/bunnies that Dave did not, and played only 1 minute.

Regardless of complexity, when protecting a lead we can’t lack basic proficiency.

I don't think KJ changes the outcome of the game because he's not someone you really have to guard on offense at this point. Zach Clemence may have been the better option because of his shooting to me, but he was also part of the group that started giving up the lead in the first half.

As far as raw talent, that's KJ Adams this season. He's high energy, but low skilled which means he doesn't bring much to the table against quality teams.

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

It’s yet to be seen whether Cam Martin is able to rebound at a D-1 level against athletic players. Add athleticism to my list of desired attributes. That’s still not a polished skill. Surely there’s some raw talent giant that wants to come to Kansas every year

That happened last year with Gethro Muscadin. Raw talent doesn't work in Self's system though because Self doesn't run a basic system, he runs a fairly complex system that takes time to learn which is why we still see Harris running point over Remy most of the time right now.

You're not going to find the type of big you want on the transfer market very often because a big with the skill set you want typically ends up in the NBA pretty quickly. Those that are available usually have a major flaw in their game that keeps them from the NBA. Kofi Cockburn for example since he was name dropped is similar to Doke in that he's basically useless more than 7-8 from the basket.

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 which one, Curry?

Cam Martin, Sydney Curry was basically what KJ Adams is, except with two less years of eligibility.

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

Can’t believe we couldn’t find a 6’10+ guy that could rebound, contest shots, and wanted to come to Kansas this year.

Did anybody, including Self, think Dave was going to regress as much as he has from the end of last season? If Dave was doing what he did once conference play started last year, we'd all be bitching about him coming off the floor.

KU actually did get a 6-9 guy who can do all of those things you said to come to Kansas, but it was a guy with no athleticism whatsoever.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think anyone was hoping Remy would play 25 min or that he and ochai would come out at the same time

@approxinfinity thank you. @Texas-Hawk-10 question. Do you think that Dave meshes well with the players and skillsets that we have on this team? Hell, unless it be a plodding, undeep and unathletic one would he mesh well with any team? The team that we have this year is not the same as last.

Is Dave perfect for the current system, no, but Self also doesn't have a better option at the 5 at this point. Mitch is even more limited than Dave in his skill set, KJ Adams is Jamari Traylor at this point. Jalen Wilson is a crap shoot about what he'll provide, today was jack shit on both ends. Zach Clemence is the best chance at some point, but not yet. When he's gotten extended looks, it's clear why Clemence doesn't play more yet because he gets lost on both ends of the floor. He can't operate in the paint yet and can't guard anyone yet. Clemence's best comparison is a more athletic Perry Ellis and Ellis was never a good defender.

Dave is the current best fit at the 5 for KU and he is good a setting screens and operating in a pick and roll or screen and roll situation.

And this team isn't as different from last season as you think. Remy and Coleman-Lands are the only two high minutes players that are different from last year. If Wilson does replace Harris in the starting line up, it'll be the 4/5 starters from last year with Harris still being one of the first off the bench like last season, Mitch still being the main big off the bench, and Coleman-Lands basically replacing Bryce Thompson in the rotation.

The guys you wanted to see in the second half was mostly the same group that began giving up the lead in the 1st half so I'm not sure why you think they would've done any differently in the second half.

As to @approxinfinity about Remy and Ochai not playing as much as possible, Remy was taking a lot of really bad shots early in the shot clock instead of running offense so that's why he got yanked a bit in the second half. Same with Ochai, who was playing pretty poorly during that stretch in the 2nd half as well missing a bunch FT's and 3's so he wasn't helping much either.

For those of you complaining about the short bench today, what happened at the end of the first half when Self had a lot of the bench guys in? Did KU's lead get bigger or smaller? That's why Self went 7 deep down the stretch.

Way too many people bitching about the lack of effort in the 2nd half and then not blaming the players when their lack of effort was the biggest reason they lost today.

@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@FarSideHawk

It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn't pass. That's after the game he's had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It's bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket

If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn't come down to the final possession. That's why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it foe 15 minutes and not giving any effort.

Agree with this. Hopefully they are engaged for all 40 minutes on Sunday.

Bill ducked around in the first half with the Harris/Bobby/JCL/Wilson/Mitch lineup too though. Could have put them away earlier… had every opportunity to be up 15 at half

Sorry, but KU had a double digit half time lead and blew it in 5 minutes. That was a lack of effort, not because Bill was trying a line up combination with a big lead in the first half.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

I'm sorry I'm just not impressed by Dave's effort when more then half the time he ends up on the floor. Its truly remarkable to see someone flail to the ground from "effort". It's more then that

Effort and ability are two different things. We know Dave is limited in ability, but Dave was the only player ending up on the floor because he was the only one trying the second half.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@FarSideHawk

It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn't pass. That's after the game he's had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It's bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket

If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn't come down to the final possession. That's why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it for 15 minutes and not giving any effort.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 he can put the right guys on the floor.

You got it. Bad substitutions, not sitting Dave and Wilson. Wilson hasn't played, but what is Dave's excuse (again)?

Dave was the only one giving any fucking effort the second half. But sure, ignore the players who couldn't make a damn free throw or gave no damn effort on defense. Yes, we know Dave is limited in ability, but your hatred of him is blinding you to the fact nobody but Dave was actually giving any effort. 5 steals doesn't happen by accident.

How about all the missed bunnies by Ochai and Braun, Remy jacking up bad shots, missing FT's. All shit that did not involve Dave that played a bigger role in KU losing.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Bill definitely lost the game. Harris in at the end is just so Bill. Pound it to Dave when he's been nothing all game. It's just the way it goes

The game was lost when the players gave no effort on either end the first 15 minutes of the second half.

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 he can put the right guys on the floor.

Self cannot control the effort of the players he was putting in the floor. The effort wasn't there in the second half regardless of who was on the floor.

@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Bill lost this game. Remy played 25 minutes and didn’t even touch the ball the last possession.

No, Bill did not lose this game. The players lost the game because they gave an absolutely shitty effort in the second half. A coach cannot control a player's effort and there was none for the first 15-16 minutes of the second half.

Shit on Dave's defense all you want, but his effort his always there. Jalen Wilson stood there and watched on that switch before Dave blocked that shot.

Why the hell was Wilson in on that?

Are you kidding me!

@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Kcmatt7 what is this? Defense?

The effort has been SO much better recently. This effort all game and it's an easy win. They thought this game was won at the half...

This is the effort that built a 15 point lead in the first half.

A Dave defensive play may have won it, the irony there!

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Dave ends up on the ground every single play

That didn't look like it was on Dave though, that looked like he was taken out on that play.

This game is about effort and KU isn't giving it today.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Bill is a joke today

He's letting his core guys learn a lesson today that should help out later this season.

Clemence may not be able to guard anyone, but put him in and let him launch some 3's.

@wissox said in Dayton Game Thread:

@BShark Like no team has ever come back from 7 points

Not with this effort.

Ochai, WTF was that defense!?!?!

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

To continue with our cautionary tale discussion, Dave may end up the least successful development job for Self at Kansas. Nobody will blame him though .

Landen Lucas says hi.

Why is anyone surprised this team is still shit on defense? None of the incoming transfers were known as elite defensive players.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Dave's the worst defender on the team and its a cliff to the next guy

Wilson and Clemence are both worse. Dave isn't good, but he at least puts in effort. Wilson and Clemence don't try on defense right now.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

Dave's not shit on defense?

Never said he was good, all I said Clemence is worse right now.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 whatever. Like we've had a big sample size.

There's enough of one to know Clemence is shit on defense at this point because he's still too weak to defend real post players and still gets lost way too easily on switches.

He will get better with experience and time in the weight room, but right now he is KU's worst post defender.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 no, he's not.

Yes, Clemence is absolutely shit on defense at this point.

@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 maybe. Dave’s overhelp left the lane unguarded

Dave at least tries, Clemence is a statue on defense at this point.

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Dayton Game Thread:

I know Clemence and KJ are freshman but Dave isn't it today.

Defense would actually be worse with Clemence in right now.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Harris is bad

Gotta score that.

He can't thats the problem

Except he showed last year he can score on those plays.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

Ochai and Braun need the ball.

Remy needs the ball right now. Braun is playing soft as shit and not defending right now. His ass needs be sitting on the bench right now. Remy, Harris, Yesufu, Ochai, and Mitch needs to be the line up and tell Remy to go make some plays.

@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:

Zach, Mitch, Braun, Remy, Ochai for this upcoming stretch please

That is an absolutely shitty defensive line up.

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

Wilson gave up that last layup. Non effort

This is still not a good defensive team. Dave is average on his best day, Wilson is still bad, Braun is better but still not good.

Harris and Agbaji are the only top level defenders, but even Agbaji's defense is suffering this year because of how much of the offensive load he's had to carry so far. This is why Self needs to get Remy going on offense, so Agbaji can focus a little bit more in his defense.

@wissox said in Dayton Game Thread:

My DVR screwed up, what was the tech for?

Taunting, Braun was pointing and talking to the Dayton player after.

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Dayton Game Thread:

He's hanging on the rim so he doesn't land on the other guy, Dick. We know you're cheering for Dayton

The tech was for the taunting after Braun came down.

Ball don't lie!

That was just disrespectful to Dayton, lol!

@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@wissox said in Dayton Game Thread:

That's a decent sized contingent from Dayton

They mentioned season tickets were sold out

There's a reason why the First Four games are in Dayton. That's a great crowd most games and a good sized arena at about 13,500.

@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:

@benshawks08 said in Dayton Game Thread:

@wissox Braun having a real good game so far.

One of our 3 best players easily. His detractors are weird.

He's definitely surprised me with how good he's been so far this season because he was useless way too much last season.