@BeddieKU23 I think Self would have been able to do a lot more with Turner than Barnes did. 1. KU desperately needed a shot blocker inside while TX already had 3. 2. Turner would have been one of the few players who could score b2b type buckets. If he could have learned to seal and score with angles (which Self teaches better than Barnes) he could have been at least a 10 pts 7 rbs 2 blk a game kinda guy. I was impressed with Turner, but not the way he was used. I completely forgot about the fact that we just missed him too!
benshawks08
4625 posts
@ralster To add on to what you said about the big man types. I feel like Perry is finally starting to take on that aggressive nature. Even with a bum knee and maybe a broken nose he put up 17 and 9. He finished the season very strong. We said a bit of the same last year but the mentality of it sure seems different.
I also think that Devonte is going to be HUGE for us as time goes on. If we had a rim protector and he could gamble every once and a while we would have 6 more points a game on the havoc he could create. He has such great anticipation and seems to come up with steals sometimes off of nothing. Think if that was part of the defensive scheme. If he knew he could pressure out and have help on a back cut...
@HighEliteMajor I agree about Self possibly "losing" this team as far as their mentality. The "what are you doing?" quote stood out to me as well. And didn't he even finish the quote, "all you want to do is shoot threes! That's soft!" I'm pretty sure that is how Jesse recounted it. Clearly the players had an idea of how they wanted to play and the coach had a different idea.
However, I don't think offense was necessarily the biggest issue against WSU. I think 49 second half points was the problem. Our defense seemed to focus on FVV and Baker as it should, but WSU has shown all year that they are not JUST a two man team. We simply left guys open. In most Bill Self coached games the team that can get to 65 or 70 wins unless it's a team that really pushes the pace like ISU or OU. WSU did not push the pace. They didn't take a bunch of quick shots. They did what we used to do. Move the ball, the open man takes the shot. And their "open man" usually didn't have a guy within three feet of him.
Offense was a big problem for this team this year, but defense in the second half is what lost the game. Our 39 points in the second half was actually a pretty good half offensively. I will admit I haven't looked at PPP for the second half so I could be way off about the pace. It didn't seem fast though.
@HawksWin Just want to make it clear that I also HATE Marshall. He lies. He has no class. And I wouldn't want him working as a ball boy for KU. I was just lamenting the fact that his players out hustled the Hawks on Sunday. I really really hate it.
@sfbahawk I believe I implied I don't like Calipari and think he is pretty slimy. I watch a lot of coaches and often see them get on players and as I said, that is fine. Most coaches yell, most stare at players, most at some point use volume as a motivator. It is my observation that Self tends to be a bit MORE negative than most. I am saying that perhaps he has lost a little bit of the balance of negative to positive reinforcement that has been present in the past. This years team (and last years too) had no message, no joy (minus a few fun moments from DG). It is a game and is supposed to be fun, and rarely did I see that from this team.
And I totally agree about Cal and his tendency to throw players under the bus once it is all said and done. Never will you here me say that Cal is a man of good character. And I certainly have a great deal more respect for Self and the way he handles our program.
This thread is called it's Venting Time. So I vented. I tried to get out my most negative thoughts. Hopefully to be left with more positive ones. I guess that is what I get for going down the negative path. See it really doesn't work! I'm usually more of the look on the bright side kind of guy. Maybe I'll stick to that.
P.S. I'm not a big football fan but it doesn't have much to do with the coaches.
@HawksWin He may be a jerk. But he is a jerk with a message. And even though I hate the message, his players buy into it, and it works.
@drgnslayr I'm with you that motivation is the key. Figuring out how to get the kids to play free and with passion. This is what has started to bother me about Self. He seems to motivate using negatives. Playing "not to lose," quick hook for mistakes, berating players on the sidelines.
As cheesy as Marshall's pre-game speech was (and as much as I dislike him), it was positive.
Many talk about how easy life must be with 9/10 OADs. But when you watch them play, they play free, they play hard. I hate it! I hate listening to Calipari say all the things I wish Bill Self would say. He talks about how his kids play for each other, and play with joy. Even platooning was a great way to allow the crazy amount of talent to play together and not see the bench as a place of punishment. Say what you will about how sleazy he may be, but he has a message, his players buy into it, and they use it to propel them to better play.
Can anyone remember a time this season when Self barked at the players on the side lines and they came out better after? Punishment doesn't work as a motivator. It sometimes works as a deterrent but will never inspire or push someone to work harder. When I saw the look in Self's eyes and the negative interaction during time outs I started to lose hope. Our players weren't scared of the Shockers, they were scared of making mistakes. Scared of Self's rage. Scared of a seat on the bench.
The only one's who weren't were Frank, Devonte, and Perry. Perry has had to learn to motivate himself (as @drgnslayr pointed out). Frank is naturally fearless (a rare quality), and Devonte has been reported to be atypically upbeat. Either Self needs to find more players with these intangibles or change his approach.
Criticism is important. It is one important way to improve. It is not the ONLY way to improve. I have heard more and more this year from announcers about Self getting "on them" in practice or in shoot around. They laugh and applaud his hard nosed approach. Again in no way am I opposed to a coach "getting on" his players, but if that is all you do than all you can hope for are players who play to not mess up.
This seems like a recent shift. In 2008 Darnell Jackson was all about "let your nuts hang" (which killed me when I heard FVV say it). EJ was "put yo shoes on." T-Rob brought FOE. With this quiet team there was no positive message. No uplifting theme. Self needed to provide that. Yes, it is more authentic and effective if it comes from the players but if they guys don't do it, someone has to.
I'm not upset that we lost to WSU. I'm not upset that our tournament is over. I am upset that I find myself more drawn to the messages of other coaches who seem to INSPIRE their players to greatness (or at least better than us).
Did anyone read about the fake lay up line? I thought that brought some much needed fun back to the game and made them loose. Also have them a chance to visualize and think about what they wanted to happen. I know @drgslayr has talked about the benefit of that before. It was nice to see a relaxed self too. I hope he can bring the fire tomorrow while keeping the positive atmosphere. He made a comment about coaching negative with regard to threes that maybe showed some self reflection.
We are going to kill WSU. I'm thinking 10-15 point win. Self is usually pretty good when he really wants it and he has made some comments that show he really wants it! Can't wait!!
Don't forget Pizza Hut!
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/16/8223115/morris-twins-video-interview-profile ↗
Interesting piece on the twins. In it Self talks about motivating them so I felt like it fit here.
@JayhawkRock78 Let's see... Sports talk, 80s hits, old school rap, country pop, whatever channel Alex Jones is on. Is that close?
@JayhawkRock78 Bad with women and a Star Wars fan? What a combo! Jk
I was wrong to say that.
I was wrong to think that Cliff would come on strong in the tournament. I was wrong to think Bill Self ever wanted to score more than 65 points in a game. I was wrong to ever use the words "strategy" or "tactics" because inevitably I used them wrong. I was wrong to think that Greene's stroke was slump proof.
@HawksWin Only problem is Mari doesn't have near the body of Black. Black is bigger, stronger, and taller. Add to that the Black can seal and score significantly better, defensive rebound, and hold his ground defensively with his weight and muscle. Traylor might be a little better on the offensive glass but that is debatable. He is quicker and can drive more effectively. But he is too short for that to work as a 4 in the league. He would have to be a 3 and 3s need to make 3s. I just don't see him producing in the NBA. That does not diminish his potential to be a factor at the college level and maybe even make some money overseas. What is great for Mari is that he went from living in a car to most likely going to graduate with a college degree. Any money he makes playing the game he started as a junior is icing on the cake. Hope he views it that way too.
What a fun game. I think Hunter is our Cole this year. He is the one that can surprise people in the tournament. The guy that comes off the bench and the other team is like, "why does this guy get 2 minutes a game?" He will pick and pop some poor team to death and we will all cheer and say, "SEE I TOLD YOU SO!!" He will have 4 blocks, 4 steals, 7 rebounds, and 13 points and we will all hope, "maybe we can be good inside next year!"
If he plays like that for the rest of the season, Cliff comes back, Bragg is any good at all, and Ellis gets healthy, it will be a very crowded back court! (Why am I talking about next year the day after that amazing game? I have problems.)
@KUinLA Really?! Trade the streak for one more tournament win? A championship? Ok. A Final Four? Maybe. One win!? No way!
Isn't trying to figure out what is going wrong (inside game) and correcting the problem (see Perry Ellis) exactly what Self has been doing?
Bill Self isn't already a great coach?! Then who is?
Great read! Love the quotes from Self and Mason!
To me Bill Self is and always has been about balance. We have had some really good players that many hyped as possible player of the year types. However, with Self's style that just doesn't seem to happen. Even when it is a great big man and when we were "big man U."
Think about it. Andrew Wiggins, the most hyped freshman since Lebron, already a star in the NBA, scoring 25 points, often, vs. better players, only scored 17 a game (still real good!). That number is huge for any Self player. Especially a freshman. But even Wiggins wasn't given freedom to just take whatever shot he wanted. Self tried all year to get him to work within the system.
That helped turn Joel from a project to a 3rd overall pick. It won number 10. Many coaches are good at drawing up plays to get shooters open. Or isolating stars to let them score. Even Rick Barnes could get Durant the looks (though he mostly did that himself).
I, like others, am not trying to apologize for Self. He can get better. That's why his motto is get better every day. With that motto comes the philosophy that you don't only play to your strengths, you play to get better. Every game (even in the tournament) is a learning opportunity. A time to grow as a player and a coach (and maybe as a fan, though I doubt he cares too much about us!).
Fact is we are a better team now, than we were 2 months ago. We have more options, more sets, more toughness, and a better idea of how to win even when we don't shoot the ball well.
I like a lot of what Hoiberg does. Sometimes I even find myself thinking something Cal says isn't complete BS. Huggins and Pitino and Izzo all have aspects of their coaching styles that I can appreciate. They are even better than Self at some things. But none of them have had the winning percentage, the consistency, and the class of our own Bill Self.
Why not think positive on a night where a 1 pt victory means we don't have to share number 11? Why not think positive about a team that will go into the tournament as a high seed? Why not think positive about a coach who has Two final fours, a championship, and a whole slew of elite 8s? Who cares if it is ugly?!
@DanR Great post! A lot of times us posters tend to think "if we only did this one thing..." when really it is so much more complex than that. Yes, this team has shown it can be a good shooting team. But why? As others have pointed out, they make open shots. Those same great shooters have not shown an ability to get open shots.
People point to Iowa State as a measure of a team who offensively gets open shots and takes lots of 3s. However, as you pointed out. They are 2-2 in their last four with high volume shooting at a decent percentage.
Can we get better and be more successful as a team. Of course. But at this point the ends seem to justify the means.
It often seems like 5s struggle when guarded by extremely smaller players. When there is a difference of 2-5 inches the advantage goes to the taller player because he can simply do what he does and score over or through the smaller player. However, if you completely change the type of player matching up with a big, he has to change the way he plays and change is hard. The smaller player is faster and can get around the big to deny, steal, and pester. If the big brings the ball down or tries to dribble the advantage immediately shifts to the smaller player.
I do feel like someone like Wayne or maybe even Frank would be up for this kind of challenge. The problem would be the physical exertion of bodying and muscling a bigger player for any amount of time would certainly cut out some of the offense from those two. Talk about dead legs!
Plus you could not guarantee the 5 would guard the man KU sends to guard him. The 5 would most likely shift over to Perry sending their usually more versatile 4 to guard someone like Kelly. Perry's struggles with taller players is well documented though he may be learning some by adding to his outside game.
There is also the fact that the other team can simply play zone thereby defeating any match up problems playing small hoped to create.
This in no way discounts the theory as valid. The 5 has added so little this year that it would certainly be interesting to see how this worked.
I was a little surprised to check in on this site and see this thread off of the front page. To me this is what a season is all about. Taking a group of young boys, getting them to come together and fight for each other as men. Getting them to take responsibility for their own actions, their own success, their own failures.
It seems like Perry is really starting to figure out what it means to lead this team. He has been showing it more on the court and maybe (hopefully) got so tired of doing it by himself that he let the others know it is time to step up.
Other years I have heard it come out that a coach maybe put an idea for a meeting in someone's ear, but I hope these guys did this on their own.
We have written all season about how Frank has been out on an island, giving his all. He has struggled recently and we have all understood and given him a break for it. I hope Perry didn't at the meeting. I hope he acknowledged the sacrifice but said we need even more! Only the players can ask the kind of effort that is needed for each other. Only they can truly motivate their teammates to give it all they have.
To me this season is out of Self's hands now. He has given them all he can. It's up to them where they take it from here. This isn't me trying to let Self off the hook. He still has to prepare, gameplan, provide wrinkles, and everything else a coach does. But he can't, can't, can't, be coaching effort anymore. And we don't go far with the talent we have this year unless they give more than they ever thought they could.
This is 2012 all over again. Anywhere we go late in the season is purely a result of heart at this point. We all know the teams problems. So does everyone else. It is time to prove the haters wrong and the believers right.
LETS GO!!
Almost positive Holmes is not forced to be held out on Saturday. The only way he doesn't play would be as @Kip_McSmithers suggests that Barnes holds him out, which he won't.
Holmes plays. He was making threes before the foul meaning he could be on an uptick, shooting wise. He had struggled in that area after a concussion.
Two rough home games ahead with the cornered Longhorns having to win any way they can and the constant contact Mountaineers on Tuesday. Wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Lucas since he seems to be the only big body we have that can withstand such a pounding.
Cliff's bruised sternum has really been affecting him. Jamari is easily displaced. And Perry is too valuable to let him truly rough it up even with his recent demeanor.
@Crimsonorblue22 So what was he doing? Why would he change from a casual stroll to an all out sprint towards our coach? I'm not saying you are wrong. I just can't see a good alternate narrative.
@Barney I noticed that too. Jesse pointed out in the video you can clearly see Gibson take off at full speed to get to that position. I actually think he was thinking about Self right there. Classy move by him.
The fans.... Well.... The guy with the "I hate you" sign, Weber's grin, and all of the people holding up No. 1 pretty much speak for them selves.
It could conceivably get to 7 losses!
Was just thinking if this was possible?!
Remember Withey? This may be bad for opponents!
@HighEliteMajor I noticed! But this team hasn't given up yet so neither should you. Are we going to win the Madness? Probably not. But that is always true. Every year. Even in 08. Even for Kentucky this year.
This team isn't dead. If anything the heart, Perry Ellis, our upperclassman, is finally kicking into high gear. We are finally developing some inside to go with our out. Even if we did lose a couple.
Isn't that what you have always asked for? Sacrificing some regular season games to make us better for March? If we shot 30 threes every game we might have a better record, but we wouldn't be as complete of a team. The 3s will return, probably this Saturday.
Hey O! HEM took a step back from the ledge! Good to see you back down to earth! A little realism and pessimism can be healthy, but don't give up on the dream!
@jayhawk-007 PHOF!
It got a little ugly but I think it is mostly ok now.
OU is very beatable. They lost to KSU TWICE. they lost to WVU by 20! Tech took them to overtime. We had a 19 point lead on them AT HALFTIME! Will it be a tough game? Of course! But it will be just as tough for them.
This is our conference! Take care of two tough games at home, go win a tough one on the road! That's life. That's what has to be done.
So let's talk about how to do that!
Perry is playing great. He needs to keep that fire burning. He is finally trying to dunk the ball. We can actually throw it to him down low and he can score. Not every time but it's an option.
BG needs to get his sight on his long range gun checked. That airball showed he is off track. We need to get him back on. Texas is the game to do that. We need 3 or 4 makes out of him. He torched them in Austin so they will be blanketing him. Hopefully Self will finally show us something there.
Frank and Devonte need to get back to Drive and Dish. Whether it is a kick out for 3 or a dump off for a dunk. They need 12 assists between the two of them on Saturday.
Wayne and Kelly need to dive for balls. That is their game. Get on the floor, make big plays.
Traylor and Lucas need to keep bringing the hustle and maybe make a lay up or two.
Cliff needs to make a left hand hook. Just one. Please!!!!
@drgnslayr Love the positive posts! Really like the unlimited upvotes idea! Let's GO! This is a good team. This team showed early in the year that they can be scrappy. They can win close games. Remember when we were 3rd in Kenpom's "luck." That stat meant we won more close games than other teams. Yeah we've been down on our "luck" recently. But just like shooting percentages, these things have a way of evening themselves out.
I'm waiting for the players only meeting. The one guy getting in teammates faces and saying, "this doesn't cut it!"
These guys have that in them. Kelly can play with fire. Greene shows his emotion. Wayne, Cliff, and Devonte love to get riled up! Jamari jumps, dives, and scrapes as much as anyone ever has, even if it isn't always effective.
And Perry. Talk about on an uptick. If there is one positive thing we can take away from these losses, it's that Perry has finally learned how to attack! His moves are quicker. He's rebounding stronger. He even SMILED!! Maybe our real leader is coming out of his shell!
Let's all take this anger and hurt and whining and turn it into fire and passion!
Go slayr go! I'm right there with you. I'm more excited now for the rest of this season than I have been all year!
Knock us down? We get back up!
How's that for some bargaining!
Woah guys and girls. It is really OK. Sure losing to KSU always stings. Yes losing to an under .500 team sucks. But look at it this way. K State has beaten OU TWICE. They got a win against Baylor and OSU. They were on top of the conference for a bit at the beginning of the season.
You hear all this talk of the Big 12 being the best conference top to bottom. Well that doesn't happen if some of the bottom teams (KSU) aren't capable of taking down some of the top teams (OU, KU, ISU??????).
Step away from the ledge everybody! The 2012 Jayhawks went into the tournament with 6 losses. The 2008 team lost back to back road games in late February the last on February 23! All is not lost.
We always lament how teams with great guards do well in March even if they don't do as well throughout the season. We have that.
We occasionally worry that the Big 12 doesn't test our team enough to prepare them for good teams in the tournament. Check.
Some of you even talk about how it can be good to take a loss to teach a lesson (an opinion I do not share!). Well that has happened too.
Truth is. March is unpredictable. So is this team. We've seen them get hot and win 5 straight over good teams (yes I'm saying TCU is a good team).
No. 11 is still in sight. ISU has to play Baylor, KSU in KS, and OU. Nothing comes easy. Not for us. Not for them.
I think the more open early shot clock offense does effect defense. Mostly because Defense is so much more about mentality. Also, kids now days (can't believe I'm saying that! Guess I am old!), seem to celebrate every offensive play they make. Most of the time that celebration leads at least to a momentary defensive lapse. Similarly some seem to pout when they miss (Jamari is most demonstrative in this). These mental transitions from offense to defense are killers to the teams overall mentality. That is why Self makes them "run the stuff." A miss after "running the stuff" is nothing to bemoan as a make after "running the stuff" is nothing to celebrate. These are just results to be expected and are so practiced that transitioning back to defense is simple. A lay up from Ellis after a post feed leaves everyone in position and in the mindset to play good D!
"Blind resumes" is pretty generous! As if we don't know who those two are. The biggest thing that stands out to me in both resumes is NIT 2013. I know injuries and youth had a lot to do with that, but does Self underachieve in the tournament or maybe, just maybe, does he overachieve in Regular season. To me, 3 1/2 months of quality basketball is more masterful than 2-6 games in 3 weeks. I know we differ on this opinion greatly and this won't change your mind.
Pro basketball has series for a reason. One basketball game can be very unrepresentative of who is the best team, but seven is harder to fake. I apply that same thought process to the tournament vs. conference season.
Before picking my post apart, let me disclose that I only watched about the last 10 minutes of the game. So much of the poor play in the first half I have no real insight on. I know we got down early and fought back to have a lead. But as far as individuals and their contributions or specific assignment breakdowns I wouldn't know. Also in this very long caveat I want it clear that I do not hold the refs solely responsible for this loss.
HOWEVER...
What I saw at the end of that game from an officiating standpoint was pretty awful. WV was able to control the game down the stretch because they only had 4 team fouls for most of the second half. And from what I saw coming into the game late is that nearly every offensive rebound they got came from shoving our players out of the way or under the basket, which if I am not mistaken should be a foul. Frank Mason had to work ridiculously hard on offense just to get the ball first on the inbounds and then in the half court because he was swallowed up in either a one man or often 2 or 3 man bear hug. The strategy of "denying" him the ball was basically to tackle him without letting him hit the floor.
Now this could have been avoided by the Kansas players by not passively accepting this mugging. There should have been some plays where you go hard for your spot and force the ref to make a call when the player actively shoves you to the ground.
Maybe someone can enlighten me to know whether this activity persisted the whole game thereby desensitizing the refs to it or perhaps the refs were "letting them play" at the end of the game to make it decided "fairly."
Anywhere else (not just in Allen) KU wins this game by 13 or more points down the stretch at the free throw line.
@Lulufulu How big does that road win at Baylor look now?! Otherwise we would be one game ahead with road trips to WVU, KSU, and OU looming.
I think we get this one tonight too. I have no idea why I feel so confident. I just think we will win. I don't think we will see the 20 point blowouts others have put on them. I just think we win. Great analysis huh?
Mason only played 31 minutes vs. Baylor. That is actually kind of a rest for him. It seemed like Devonte brought the ball up a lot especially in the first half. And even Green and Selden chipped in with the most basic of point guard duties since Baylor wasn't pressing. I think Frank will be ready for this game.
I want this one bad! Let's get it!
@DinarHawk Sorry if that was misleading. I was not trying to say Outside in was wrong or flawed. I was just saying we got a significant amount of looks from three especially when you consider how much we turned it over. Obviously turn overs were a major problem in the second half. I'm just trying to say that we need to be able to score inside to provide some balance. Self has shown he is willing to "free the three" but not to the detriment of balance.
Add to that the several instances last game and vs. OSU where specific plays were drawn up to get open threes. The elevator screen play has been seen several times. We ended the first half with a drive and flare screen for Wayne. Our guards have been driving to kick out instead of dish. There have been more aggressive skip passes against zone to get open looks on the perimeter.
The offense is definitely perimeter oriented and vs. OSU it clearly wasn't enough.
Part of outside-in is IN. Against Tech we needed to work on executing more IN because OUTSIDE was killing them! The win was sealed so we didn't need to focus on our strengths as much as we did. That is why Self said we shot too many threes and that it is "fools gold."
He is trying to prevent this extremely talented shooting team from relying on the three. You think Brennan Greene is going to shoot worse because his coach doesn't value him? He is in the game to shoot and score. When he is in we work to get him looks. Actions speak louder than words. Greene's psyche is fine.
@drgnslayr You have been prolific today. Keep letting them fly! I particularly liked this last post. The idea that Self really wants them to be really good at one thing, DEFENSE. We can talk all day about 4 out 1 in, back to the basket, motion, ball screens, driving lanes, etc. As fans, we like offense. It was what wins games. If you score more points you win.
Self would be bored with the ongoings of this site because he cares most about D. He cares about moving your feet, active hands, proper positions, applying pressure, blocking out, rebounding (defensively), guarding ball screens, trapping inbounds plays, playing to the scouting report, etc.
For him it seems offense is often an extension of defense. I always seem to feel if we can get to 65 we will win the game these days. That is not very many points!! For Self offense is the teams opportunity to control the ball. Move it around, take up time, and try to find the BEST shot. If it goes in fine, if it doesn't no big deal, we get it back and try again.
Self's philosophy when you KISS is to first force the most difficult shot you can for the other team (guarded jumpers) and take the easiest shot you can on offense (uncontested lay ups).
So occasional spurts in transition are good because they get easy baskets and come off of good defensive play. What we never see is pulling the ball out of the net and running to get an open three early. Self knows that it is easier to get open looks from the outside so feels the team can do this any time. So why not spend at least 20 seconds trying to get the easier open lay-up. In the past this has come from ball movement and positioning more so than straight back to the basket play.
Perry has moves to get himself open in the post so we always try that, but he can't finish strong so unless he really shakes a guy he passes it back out. Cliff can finish strong but doesn't have the moves to get free.
Cliff is so used to high school where he was bigger, faster, and stronger that he didn't need to be open to score. He has the body to seal off the lane and get easy dunks he just hasn't figured out the positioning and timing to make it work for him. But he really has no post moves. We've seen him try a couple of hooks but even those are shaky. He still doesn't use his body to protect the ball (or his face as Jaybate pointed out a long time ago). The only way to learn the timing of this offense is repetition.
And while people may say that he should therefore be getting more minutes, we just couldn't afford to let Cliff go practice for 25 minutes against Iowa State, Oklahoma, etc.
So when we have a lead or are playing a team we should/could beat easily, he gets the reps and we work the ball trying to get him the uncontested finish near the rim.
Self is a teacher. It is why we saw some hesitancy to jump on the OAD merry go round. It is why he favors his more experience players who have had time to learn and develop. It is why he is a college coach and not in the NBA. There have been opportunities which he has not pursued. He takes every chance he can to say how happy he is at Kansas. He gets great players and strives to make them better. That is his goal. Winning is the result, not the goal. That is why win or lose he talks about "playing well," doing it, "the right way."
Yes there are other ways to do it. But his players signed with him to learn a certain way. If that is not what they wanted, most of our players would have been welcomed with open arms at many other schools who do it differently. Transfers are frequent when players realize what it takes to play that "right way."
He wants to win, that is clear. But what he really wants is to grow, and his players to get better.
@drgnslayr Do you think this team went off script in the second half? There was clearly a point where there was a more concerted effort to get the ball inside but then it seemed like they just decided, "forget this! Let's bomb from deep!"
Are the players finally taken ownership of this team and playing to their own strengths? Self thought we took too many threes. Is that because he told them to work it inside and work the clock (T-Axis)?
We won big but Self seemed perturbed. Jesse mentioned Selden walking off the court without looking at Self.
Has Self been forcing his team to go through adversity so that they come out the other side stronger?
I thought it was good that Self left Cliff in after those two terrible passes. It was clear he was a little jittery, but instead of sitting him, Self let him play through it.
I'm finally to the point where I am happy again when teams decide to go zone against us. I remember we use to praise Bill Self's teams for cutting up a zone. For the last few years that has been the opposite. Finally we have a team that understands what it means to MOVE the ball. They showed great quick passing. Even when Tech took away our favorite place to break the zone (the big at the free throw line) we were able to move it fast enough to get open looks. I think that has been a big contributing factor to our improved shooting. Guys taking open shots. Not so many pull ups with the shot clock running down. That and Greene.
The announcer made some comment last night about being head over heels (or something like that) for Greene and I have to agree. How do you not fall in love with that jumper!? He so rarely even touches the rim!
Wayne did grab a few rebounds last night and had a couple of nice passes that didn't translate into assists because of fouls or lack of finishing. Yes his shooting is better but the whole game is coming around for him.
@jaybate Is this why Self was so upset with Selden for taking that early shot clock three in the first half? Is that why he said we shot too many threes? We wasted 21 points of a lead that could have been spent defending? This is a difficult concept to come to terms with but it does seem to fit both the action in game and the press conferences after. So how did this plan backfire at OSU?
@JayHawkFanToo I think they have an advantage in playing them at home first. They get to practice breaking that press at home where the press will not be as effective. OU pretty much proved that the right formula can trounce WVU home or away. So if they are able to win easily at home I think it could transfer to an easy win away as well.
@JayHawkFanToo Yeah but it is where those games take place that gives them the chance. Big 12 teams are just really struggling to win on the road. Plus OSU is playing really well right now. No lead is safe with them. They did the same thing to Baylor that they did to us.
Last time we played these guys we let loose the artillery and buried them. That may have been the first realization of the true outside-in potential of this team. Jesse pointed out in his pre-game scout that guarding the 3pt line is a weakness for Tech. He has been pretty good picking against the spread this year and he has Kansas covering. So I'd say you are probably right. I am way too big of a coward to risk any actual money on a performance of 18-20 year-olds where I have absolutely no control. You go @drgnslayr! I love the confidence!
@Crimsonorblue22 I agree. I think we should be proud of it. I know others feel we sometimes waste some star power though. I like the open guy takes the shot philosophy we have.
@drgnslayr Great break down! That last game of the regular season in Norman could be HUGE. I still think ISU holds serve and does us a favor with OU at home. And like you outlined, ISU has a monster road in front of them so any wins they pull off at home are a bonus for us.
I think we get WVU at least once doing them in.
OSU could also possibly win out to finish with 5 losses, making things interesting. They still have to play at WVU but other than that it is home games, at TCU and at Tech.