🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JayHawkFanToo Problem is they have almost nobody under contract. Here is the breakdown of the Heat roster and what it looks like going forward:

Corrected Salary link... ↗

Who are they going to trade? Aside from the Big3 (who all have player options) they have Chris "Birdman" Anderson & Norris Cole under contract for next year, and Udonis Haslem also with a player option for $4.62 million. Haslem's contract is too big, so that leaves two players they can trade. Nobody is going to be knocking down the door for either of them, even to clear salary. There's better options out there for that.

And who would want to trade Miami for a future draft pick? As you say, this draft is pretty loaded. This is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. You don't trade a pick in this talent rich draft for a pick in another draft, especially not for Miami's pick, which is bound to be a low, non-lottery pick every year.

Here's another link from ESPN where they talk about the Heat targeting Shabazz Napier, but go on to talk about how limited they in their ability to make trades:

Corrected link to Napier... ↗

From the link: "Moving up in the draft, however, will be difficult for the Heat.

They have the 26th pick and point guard Norris Cole to offer a team -- but that's about it. If Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh opt out, Justin Hamilton will be the only player the Heat have under contract for next season. And the team can't offer Wade or Bosh in a trade until the players officially decide whether or not to opt out by Monday. The team can't even offer a first-rounder next season because the Cleveland Cavaliers have the Heat's pick in 2015 if it falls between Nos. 11-30."

The article mentions Justin Hamilton, so the Heat must have exercised their team option on him. They don't mention Chris Anderson. Not sure why. Anyway.

I agree, there are going to be some trades made, just not by Miami.

(not sure why the links aren't working. Copy & paste I guess...)

@HighEliteMajor Let's say Perry doesn't leave, Alexander does, and we don't bring in anyone of significance in the post next year. Now, let's compare that foursome to the '08 post players:

Jamari Traylor vs. Darnell Jackson - Could senior year Traylor be as productive as Darnell Jackson? I don't see why not. Jackson averaged 11.2 ppg & 6.7 rpg in '08. Give Traylor about 25 mpg, and couldn't he get that his senior year? Jackson was the more polished basketball player (having been ranked in the 50s I believe coming out of high school), but Jamari definitely would have the athleticism advantage.

Perry Ellis vs. Darrell Arthur - Could senior year Ellis be as productive as Arthur? Well, from an offensive standpoint, sophomore Ellis is already there. Arthur's sophomore year: 24.7 mpg, 12.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg. Ellis's sophomore year: 27.8 mpg, 13.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg. Pretty similar production, although Ellis averaged 3 more mpg (Arthur's averages extrapolated out to 20.72 points per 40 minutes and 10.2 rebounds per 40 minutes, whereas Ellis was a tick behind averaging 19.42 points per 40 minutes and 9.64 rebounds per 40 minutes). I think we can all agree Ellis needs to improve his defense to get to where Shady was his sophomore year (which I would describe as...slightly above average?) but if Ellis does in fact stay for 2 more years, it's not a big leap to think he'll be more productive than Arthur was in '08.

Sasha Kaun vs. Hunter Mickelson - no stats thus far on Hunter (at least none as a Jayhawk), but here are Sasha's senior stats: 17.7 mpg, 7.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg. Very attainable I think for Hunter. The key here will be if Mickelson can develop into the defensive stopper that Kaun was. Kaun was great defending in the low post, although not much of a shot blocker. Mickelson has the rep for being a shot blocker, but in two years can he develop into the kind of guy that we bring in to cool off an opposing post threat?

Cole Aldrich vs. Landon Lucas - not worth comparing stats here, as freshmen Cole Aldrich and Lucas stats weren't anything of note. But Cole was an McD's all-American, and Lucas is an unranked project. The '08 team didn't need regular production from Cole, and I don't think next year's team will need regular production from Lucas. But can Lucas, who will be in his 4th year in the program, provide a spark off the bench if we need him to? I'm not saying he has to be capable of the Aldrich UNC performance. But as the 4th big, can he be a net positive and do the little things when foul trouble crops up, or injury, to one of the more regular rotation players? Maybe. We've seen some promise, and he seems to be a hard worker with the right attitude.

So...maybe next year's post rotation doesn't need another OAD thrown into the mix to replace Alexander? Just a thought.

@JayHawkFanToo Not sure what Miami has to trade that would allow them to move up and grab top prospects. Simply having cap space if LeBron leaves won't help them in that regard.

As for the Heat and Chalmers, I think regardless of what LeBron does, he's finished as their starting PG. Maybe he stays on at a reduced salary as the back-up, but one of two things I figure happens: 1) LeBron stays on the condition that they upgrade their roster, and with PG being one of two starting positions not held down by the Big3, Chalmers loses his starting job (and possibly his roster spot all together), or 2) LeBron leaves and the Heat start rebuilding, and really Chalmers was a marginal starter surrounded by superstars to begin with, so with that no longer the case the Heat go younger in their rebuilding effort.

I hope Chalmers lands in the best possible position for him, but I just can't see the Heat maintaining the status quo with him after his performance in the Finals, regardless of whether James' had opted out or not.

I think if Wiggins can improve his jump shot enough he could be a franchise player. I think one thing that might affect him if he's selected by Cleveland is that he won't have to be a consistent scorer, which is detrimental to him IMO. He needs to have that on his shoulders, to push him to be the alpha. If Cleveland selects him, they have Kyrie Irving & Dion Waiters who are pretty high volume shot guys that will detract from Wiggins needing to score, and will ultimately hurt his development. Maybe some people see that as a positive, that he won't be asked to do too much, but I see it as a drawback.

@joeloveshawks Well, if you read what I wrote, I said it is unlikely. However small the chance of that happening, I think it is actually a greater possibility than Perry morphing into an NBA post player this season and declaring after his junior year.

So while no, not a joke, it is not likely either.

@HighEliteMajor Good ol' B-star. Always good for a chuckle.

I can't see Ellis turning pro after this year. I just don't see him being viewed by the League as a viable post player, and I don't see Self developing him at the 3. While I don't see this as likely either, I think there's a better chance of him graduating early and transferring to another program that would play him at the 3 for a season.

But I'd say it's probably more than a 50% chance that Alexander turns pro, and then you're looking at at least one of the Jamari, Mickelson, Lucas trio needing to start, unless we snag another OAD big.

I do think Mickelson would qualify (depending on which recruiting ranking you believe) as the kind of top tier non-OAD talent we'd want developing, right? He was ranked #55 by ESPN, #54 by Scout (only #100 by rivals).

Personally, I'm hoping we land Stephen Zimmerman. 7 footer from Vegas, #6 on ESPN's recruiting list.

@HighEliteMajor Not missing anything. The Lakers & Celtics themselves have close to half of the NBA titles period.

Of course this is somewhat easier to explain in basketball, since a single player has much more effect on the outcome of games than in any of the other major sports. So if a franchise lands a generational talent, they should be able to achieve a modicum of success. Cleveland here is the big exception, never being able to put enough talent around LeBron.

Free agents and marquee coaches will most likely always gravitate towards the major markets also. This is another factor that explains the championships being clustered between a few teams.

Given this, the only way poor teams can get better is to catch lighting in a bottle with a draft choice, and quickly surround a star with adequate supporting cast.

@HighEliteMajor Yes I remember Eli doing it. Elway did the same thing. So yes it happens in other sports for other athletes. But the point of the draft is to make the worst teams better. The NBA isn't "all in" for that anyway, otherwise they wouldn't have the draft lottery, which hasn't discouraged teams from tanking and doesn't reward the worst teams with the best picks. So needless to say, I have a problem with the NBA's process on various levels.

So, how are the poor teams, especially the smaller market teams, ever supposed to improve? How are the "bad situations" ever supposed to be fixed, if not through the draft? Being a minor conspiracy theorist myself, I don't think the league wants them to improve. They'd be happy if the Finals every year was Lakers vs. Celtics. Heaven forbid a team like Milwaukee ever gets back to the Finals. We might see some of the worst officiated basketball in the history of the league if they were ever to make it to their conference finals.

Anyway, yeah I don't like it being manipulated. I don't like the idea that information can be withheld from certain teams. It should be available to all. I think that's a different distinction than saying "if you draft me, I'll holdout/won't sign". That's what Elway & Eli did. They didn't say "we'll go to the combine, but uh...San Diego can't come". And in Eli's situation, the Chargers did draft him, and the Giants had to pay with extra picks to get him (with which the Chargers obtained Shawn Merriman & Nate Kaeding). So at least the Chargers were compensated for Eli's refusal to play there. Same with the Colts who drafted Elway. The teams in Embiid's situation are not being given the same consideration.

@JayHawkFanToo I do agree that a one year sample would be ridiculous. As I pointed out, it would have been nice for ESPN to clarify their criteria other than the vague "best jobs right now". I also said it couldn't just be this past season based on where they had certain coaches. But then...they have Tony Bennett in the top 15? And is it 3 years, 5 years? A two year difference in such a small sample size is a fairly important distinction to make I would think.

Jaybate pointed out that they are rolling out the list one at a time just to get website hits. Similarly, I imagine they left the criteria so poorly defined so they could spark debates in the comments, with people often coming back to the article, thus resulting in more hits.

All chatter I've heard is Embiid won't fall past Orlando. However, his agent is picking and choosing with whom to share medical reports, and the word is he's trying to steer JoJo to Boston. While I'm all for Embiid falling into a favorable situation, this seems underhanded and slimy. I haven't been a fan of the way Embiid has been "handled" at all, and this just reinforces my beliefs that he has surrounded himself with the wrong people.

OK here's my thoughts on the list: first, the criteria is too ambiguous. Again, "which coaches are doing the best jobs right now"...what exactly does that mean? It can't be simply this past, most recent college basketball season. If it was, Self would not be top 10. He didn't finish top 10 in the polls, we were bounced out of the tourney in the round of 32, etc. Same with Duke & coach K. Bob McKillop checked in at no. 24, they lost in the first round of the NIT last season. So what else is in the criteria ESPN? Recent recruiting? The past 3 seasons? Are they giving degree of difficulty points, in that it is harder to succeed at a place like Harvard than it is at a blue blood institution? Or is there in fact a nod given to legacy and/or consistency? Unfortunately there is no further info given, so these "rankings" open themselves up to immediate criticism. Given this, perhaps it was a very poor list to subject to debate.

Regardless, I'll forge ahead with some of my immediate thoughts (focusing mostly on the top 24): Larry Brown is too low. Period. He was snubbed by the selection committee last season, but made the NIT finals. He's made SMU relevant for their first time in decades. And he's probably the best pure basketball mind on the list.

Greg McDermott - too high. Do something without your son and then we'll talk.

Tony Bennett - too high. Be more than a one season wonder.

Ollie in the top 10 - too high. This would have been the equivalent of Bruce Weber being in the top 10 in '05, having made the championship game with Self's recruits. Let's see what Ollie does without Calhoun's recruits.

Tim Miles has caught flak from a couple posters, but who was the last coach to have Nebraska relevant in college basketball? (and coming out of the Big 10 to boot, much tougher than the Big 12). Ending a 16 year tourney drought deserves a thumbs up in my opinion.

I actually think Boeheim is too high, based on a 37 year career that has netted one championship. Maybe swap him and Roy.

Thad Matta might not have the greatest coaching acumen, but he's had about as much success as any coach on the list not to have won a ring. I don't think you can argue with his resume. Given this, not sure how he is behind Wright, Few, Smart, Hoiberg, and it is very debatable how he's behind Marshall, Beilein, & Ryan.

That's just some of my thoughts, passing the time until Late Night...

Didn't know who else might have noticed this, but ESPN has been counting down the top 25 coaches, one per day (M-F), for the last 3 weeks (they also ranked #26-#50, but didn't count them down). Today they unveiled #11 Sean Miller, leaving the top 10 for the next two weeks.

Here’s the lower half of the top 50:

No. 50 (tie): Randy Bennett (StMary), Scott Drew (Bay)

No. 49: Richard Pitino (Minn)

No. 48: Stew Morrill (Ut St.)

No. 47 Bob Hoffman (Mercer)

No. 46 John Thompson III (Gtwn)

No. 45 Mike Brey (ND)

No. 44 Rick Barnes (Tex)

No. 43 Chris Mack (Xav)

No. 42 Josh Pastner (Mem)

No. 41 Ed Cooley (Prov)

No. 40 Bruce Weber (KSU)

No. 39 Tubby Smith (TxTech)

No. 38 Buzz Williams (VaTech)

No. 37 Rick Byrd (Belmont)

No. 36 Steve Alford (UCLA)

No. 35 Phil Martelli (StJo)

No. 34 Tad Boyle (Col)

No. 33 Fran McCaffery (Iowa)

No. 32 Tim Miles (Neb)

No. 31 Lon Kruger (OU)

No. 30 Bob Huggins (WVU)

No. 29 Jim Crews (STL)

No. 28 Jim Larranaga (Mia)

No. 27 Mick Cronin (Cin)

No. 26 Archie Miller (Day)

No. 25 Jamie Dixon (Pitt)

Here’s some omissions that surprised me:

Cuonzo Martin

Dana Altman

Tom Crean

Mike White

Johnny Dawkins

And here’s the list from No. 24 – No. 11:

No. 24 Bob McKillop

No. 23 Greg McDermott

No. 22 Tommy Amaker

No. 21 Larry Brown

No. 20 Thad Matta

No. 19 Jay Wright

No. 18 Steve Fisher

No. 17 Mark Few

No. 16 Roy Williams

No. 15 Fred Hoiberg

No. 14 Tony Bennett

No. 13 Shaka Smart

No. 12 Jim Boeheim

No. 11 Sean Miller

So now, who's left? Can we fill out the remaining 10? Shouldn't be too hard right? In some order this is what I've been able to deduce:

Self

Izzo

Coach K

Calipari

Rick Pitino

Donovan

Bo Ryan

Ollie

Beilein

Marshall

(Quick note on what ESPN says is their criteria, and that is which coaches are doing the best jobs right now. Not about career accomplishments. Not about legacy. Although...it has to factor in somewhat, otherwise Self and Marshall wouldn't be in the top 10, not having advanced at least to the sweet 16 last year. Right? Idk, it's ESPN.)

Anyway, to me it makes for fun debate. Who got snubbed on their ranking? Who's ranked too high? What does the top 10 look like (I do try to be somewhat objective)? I'll give it a little while before posting any of my thoughts. Just thought it would be something to focus on instead of poor JoJo's foot!

@DoubleDD Man, that 2012 team was so fun to watch.

@HighEliteMajor Relax. Pretty sure Brady would be too old for the team anyway. Wasn't the dude like 27 when he finally ran out of eligibility?

Gotta wonder now how far he's gonna fall. Could be someone gets an unexpected great pick. But if I'm a GM, this on top of the back injury so close together with him having such a small sample size playing basketball...still top 5? Top 10?

@JayHawkFanToo I gotcha. I just remember them talking during this year's Finals (I think with him personally in one of the post-game, on-court interviews) specifically about his move to the bench, and that initially it was a bit of a blow to his ego but eventually he embraced it; how he'd come off the bench and Duncan & Parker would go catch a breather so the offense was actually designed for him when he'd come into the game. Admittedly I don't watch much NBA throughout the year so the way they were talking it sounded like a recent development.

@JayHawkFanToo Well...OK. But at some point, he moved Ginobili to the bench. Just didn't happen last year.

And yes, obviously having a core of players is A key to success. But you can't deny the Spurs make adjustments. To fit their personnel, to fit the competitive nature of the league. They aren't the same team as last year, just like they aren't the same team that won their previous title in 2007. If they were the same, if they just stubbornly did things the same way, we wouldn't have seen such a drastic difference between last year's finals and this year's. Obviously the Heat, although the same opponent, were not the same team and that factors in, but you don't go from a nail-bitting 7 game series to blowing out the two time defending champs by 15 points every game without adjustments. They specifically mentioned in the telecast of game 5 that Popovich doesn't like the 3 point shot, but he realizes what a weapon it is and has adapted. He changed the way his offense works. Again as I said, it was not so heavily just pick & rolls with Duncan this year as it has been in years past. Again as I said, they leaned on Leonard more. Do you deny that the key for success this year was heavily reliant on the adjustments they made?

I stand by pretty much everything I said, in that the Spurs made adjustments and that netted them an NBA championship this year, whereas adhering to the status quo would not have. If simply having the same core group was all that they needed, they would have won it last year, and pretty much every year since 2007 by that logic.

I too suggested that Self show his team tape of the NBA finals, after game 3 and their historically efficient first half of that game.

I hope Self watches the tape willing to learn things too. The first thing I'd point out is that maybe the Spurs offense was so functional because they weren't firmly entrenched in a high-low scheme. I don't think even at it's most well-oiled and with the most proficient of passers that Self's offense could look near as good as the Spurs did.

Obviously Self doesn't need to massively overhaul his system. It's worked to great success. But especially this year more than some years past we will be stronger on the perimeter than in the post. Having more of a motion offense and running plays for those guys, as opposed to always looking to throw it inside or just moving it around the three point line, would prove advantageous I would think.

And again while not needing to make a massive overhaul, I hope Self will look at Popovich's willingness to adapt. As @HighEliteMajor would say, to free his mind. Last year the Spurs came up just short. It would have been easy for Pop to maintain the status quo; he still had HOFer Duncan in the post. Just keep running much of the offense for him via post entries or pick & rolls. Instead, they made the necessary adjustments. He moved Ginobili to the bench. And against the Heat, even with Parker, Duncan, & Ginobili, they were running offense for eventual MVP Kwahi Leonard. Pop changed his line-up to maximize match-ups, unclogging the lane and moving Tiago Splitter to the bench and replacing him with Boris Diaw.

Lastly, something I'd like Self to learn from watching the Spurs is the willingness to give a green light to the shooters. This includes the bench, without worry of a quick hook because they miss their first shot. Patty Mills? Um, yeah. I think that guy is still raining shots down on the Heat. Have confidence in your shooters Bill!

I know Self said the Spurs just made it easier for college coaches, I only hope he doesn't watch the tape thinking only about his players. A little introspection here could go a long way.

@Crimsonorblue22 I'm sure he'd be young enough.

While I was a big Selby fan and continue to hold out hope he'll make it, I don't think that I'd want him on the team. I listed guys like KY & Wesley because they'd be good roster fillers. Also, our front line might be a little thin. However, we won't have any trouble fielding the perimeter. Those guys should be the ones getting all the reps; reaping all the benefits. I guess as an emergency injury replacement I'd be OK with it.

You know what we could do to fill out the roster? Have guys like Justin Wesley (don't laugh @HighEliteMajor) or Kevin Young enroll in one class this upcoming year. They're not playing professionally, and by enrolling in a class they would be eligible. Just a thought, if we were short, which we know we'll be at least one player short with Svi not being eligible.

Anyway, this is awesome for our program.

@Crimsonorblue22 @ralster Ford just got some senior transfer PG from LSU. Anthony Hickey, who was apparently shown the door by LSU, is immediately eligible for Okie St. From the espn article:

"As a junior in 2013-14, Hickey averaged 8.4 points, 3.7 assists and 2.8 rebounds. He shot 34.4 percent from beyond the arc and led the team with 62 steals."

So there's another puzzle piece for Ford. Doesn't sound like a game-changer, but at least they'll have someone with high level D1 experience available to handle the rock.

The funniest part of the ESPN article was this:

"Hickey will try to fill the void left by Marcus Smart, who made himself eligible for the NBA draft after a strong sophomore season."

Smart had a strong sophomore season? LOL. Idk, I guess that's just not how I would characterize it.

@drgnslayr Sometimes it is not up to the player and how hard he wants to work. Genetics plays a part. So does opportunity, circumstance, luck, etc. The statement that it's up to him implies that if he doesn't make it, either at KU or in the NBA or overseas, it was because he didn't work hard enough. That might not be the case.

Sadly, we are all not created equal, and often times no amount of hard work can change that.

@ralster Yeah I think maybe Bosh & Wade are halves. Definitely not the Big3 anymore. I think with Wade it's that he's aged really poorly. So I'm not exactly giving him a pass, but I didn't expect him to step up too much. Bosh on the other hand...I kept waiting for it and it never happened. He would make a play or two and you'd think he was getting ready to carry the load for awhile, then he'd disappear for the rest of the game.

I put some of this on Spoelstra. I praised the guy after game 2 (I thought having the offense run through James in the post won that game for them), but after that game it's almost like he abandoned all in-series adjustments and was just throwing stuff against the wall hoping something would stick. James Jones, Tony Douglas, Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Michael Beasley...no real rhyme or reason other than "hey, I haven't tried this guy in awhile. Go out there and let's see how that works." In fairness he had a pretty poor bench, but I was looking for him to do something different with the offense to maybe get Bosh going or Rashard Lewis going. Never really happened.

It's not all on Spoelstra though. Bosh has to make himself be more assertive. It was as if the Spurs defense was so good it just discouraged him from even trying.

I agree, LeBron is legit. If I was him, I'd seriously consider opting out and looking elsewhere. Like I said, I can't see Wade or Bosh opting out, so he's stuck with those two in Miami. Put him back in Cleveland...are they not at least close to being as good as the Heat? Especially with them potentially adding Embiid. Starting line-up of Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, LBJ, Bennett, & Embiid. Entice a couple other free agents there to bolster their bench and all of a sudden they are contenders and the Heat are the East's version of the '14 Lakers.

I'd also be interested in seeing him head out West. Just from a competitive standpoint. The East is garbage compared to the West. If he were to win a title or two coming through the western conference, it'd be more impressive.

The Spurs are NBA champions. Some post-season/series musings:

• The Mario Chalmers stock watch: really hurt himself going into free agency. Played himself out of the starting line-up for game 5. Didn't see the court until the second half. Ironically this led to him playing his best basketball of the series, but I don't know that it was enough.

• It might not be enough to keep him in Miami, and if so possibly not as the starter. As was mentioned at halftime, and by others prior to games 4 & 5, the Heat are in desperate need of retooling. The supporting cast around LeBron was pathetic in this series (guess that championship DNA wasn't enough). LBJ is enough to get the Heat through a weak and diluted Eastern Conference, but if they have future championship aspirations the other pieces need to be better. If I'm Wade and Bosh, there's no way I opt out of those contracts. Who'd want them (for more money than they're making now)? If I'm Pat Riley I'm praying one or both of them opt out, but it probably won't happen. So that leaves two starting positions available for upgrade, plus the bench. I bet the Heat front office take a long hard look at upgrading at the point via free agency.

• The Spurs have questions of their own. Popovich has said he wants to continue coaching, but Duncan hasn't yet committed to another season. They're likely to go out together. My guess is Duncan comes back and the team makes a run at successfully defending their title and going back-to-back for the first time. Boris Diaw and Patty Mills are free agents to be. Not a lot of other big contracts coming off the books (Matt Bonner is the only one of note, having earned $3.945 mil this past season). I'm no cap expert, but it's worth wondering if they'll have enough cap space to keep the two of them, who will likely command raises on the open market. Or they could take a hometown discount?

• Favorite image of the series: Manu Ginobili shrugging off Ray Allen and finishing strong with a dunk, followed by a joyous Tim Duncan smiling ear to ear and slapping him on the head on the way back down the court.

So...now there's REALLY no basketball until Late Night. I guess the NBA draft will be something to check out.

@JayHawkFanToo Here's the link I found his contract info on:

<a href="http://www.cowboysrideforfree.com/2014/4/3/5546118/travis-ford-fired)

It looks like the difference between our figures is the 2 million from the retirement column ($400k/year x 5 years). Not sure if he gets that if he's fired or not.

@Crimsonorblue22 My thought is that yes, performance wise he should be gone now. But he's not, so the question then is why?

Does he have a good team returning? No. Smart & Markel Brown are gone. They'll return Forte, Nash, & Cobbins should be back from injury. No one else noteworthy.

Does he have a good recruiting class coming in? It's pretty decent. ESPN ranks it at 38th. The class is highlighted by a couple of 4 star forwards - small forward Joe Burton & power forward Mitchell Solomon. They also have a 7 foot JuCo player named Anthony Allen who led all JuCo players in blocked shots this past year. Allen was being recruited by some other reputable schools (saw Louisville on one list) so he's probably decent. (note: rivals shows him as a commitment but not having signed a LOI). And they have Jeff Newberry who was ranked in the top 10 JuCo players by many services.

So perhaps that's the reason. A combination of giving him one more chance while at the same time not wanting to lose any of these new recruits.

My guess is though, it's more about the money than anything. If he didn't have such a ridiculous contract, I think he'd already be gone. And it is because of this that I think he might be able to stink/stick it out a little while longer than just this upcoming season.

@Crimsonorblue22 By that logic he should be gone now though, right?

@ralster I read somewhere recently that Travis Ford has a no buyout clause in his contract, meaning that should Okie St. decide to terminate his contract they would have to pay ALL of the remaining salary. His contract runs through the '18-'19 season and has $13.825 million remaining on it. After this year there will be $11.2 million remaining.

The point of this is I'm not sure how monumentally bad he'll have to be for the Okie St. board of regents to swallow that much salary, and then on top of that pay a new coach. I know that T. Boone Pickens can probably scrape together that much scratch digging through his couch cushions, but it wouldn't surprise me if they wait until he's closer to the end of that contract before finally biting the bullet and getting rid of Ford.

@ralster No worries about digressing on this thread. It's why I started it, to talk about the NBA. I'm like you, in that I only pay attention (sportscenter, reading articles, etc.) all season and only watch games during the playoffs. I've never had a team I was loyal to. The Bulls when they had Jordan. The Celtics because of Pierce. Not even the Lakers even though I'm a big Kobe fan.

I don't mind physical play either. But just like I think there's a line between selling a call & flopping, there's a line between physical play and being a dirty player. I think Wade has crossed that line (on both counts). I think the Morris Twins occasionally crossed that line and were not just physical, but dirty. Never thought the same about TRob or RussRob.

Regarding the Celtics not drawing criticism for their Big3 while the Heat do, I think it's a lot of factors. I think you're partially right, for whatever reason people like bashing LeBron. We could speculate on those reasons; I'm not really sure why. I think some of it is that a lot of the current generation watching the NBA grew up with Jordan as their childhood idol, and they will constantly try to diminish the greatness of LBJ so that he doesn't approach Jordan status. Just a guess on my part.

I think there are other reason why the Heat Big3 draws criticism. Part of it is that they were assembled via free agency. Remember Boston had to trade a lot of draft picks & complementary pieces to acquire Allen & Garnett. The Heat did not. Boston didn't have this massive window in which they were able to dominate the league, due to a weaker supporting cast and because not a one of the Celtics Big3 were in the primes of their career when they came together. Also, the fact that it was planned so far out makes it seem as if the players were being a tad disloyal to their former teams (and fans).

And I think there is a natural tendency for there to be an overriding hatred against "superteams". The Yankees in baseball, with their 20-something world series wins, are a prime example of this. The Patriots in football recently. Nobody likes a bully, and the Heat are the bully of the NBA. Or to put it another way, it feels like there isn't a competitive balance in the league.

And I read an article yesterday about the Heat looking to make it the Big4 and will try to add Carmelo to their current group. What do you think about that? To pluck yet another all-star from another Eastern conference team...man I hope not. I like watching competitive series when I do sit down to watch the NBA playoffs. I can't foresee anyone challenging them for another 3 years if that happens.

@Crimsonorblue22 I hadn't checked it in awhile. I see there's some updates there now. Thanks!

@Crimsonorblue22 Me too. As much as I like CF & Mason, I think this guy is perhaps the answer to our PG woes. I know, maybe too much optimism over a guy who hasn't played a college game yet, but I really think he could be the whole package - defense, ball handling, passing, shooting, quickness...fingers crossed.

@Crimsonorblue22 If someone said that about Graham, it wasn't BMac. He had some good praise for him on the article over at kusports

• Three games in, three bad games for Mario. What's disconcerting is that you heard the announcers talking about how it has become a concern with management. And for all the talk about how clutch he is, the Heat haven't had him in at the end of games. They're increasingly going to a no-PG line-up. I really hope he responds with a big game later in the series.

• Speaking of the announcers, damn you Golden State for firing Mark Jackson. Listening to him is brutal. How many times do I have to hear him say "Hand down...MAN DOWN!" in that gravelly, Christian Bale Batman voice?

• The Spurs first half offense was a thing of beauty. I think Self should have that half on tape just to show his teams about ball movement and crisp passing.

• I can't help but think when watching the Spurs that Pop, Duncan, Parker, & Ginobili will all retire together. Not sure who is going first, but I can't see that veteran group warming up to a different coach. Similarly, I can't see Pop wanting to take on a rebuild project once some of the core start leaving.

Game 4 Thursday. While I do think this series is somewhat like a chess match with all the adjustments being made, I think Thursday LeBron wills them to a victory and evens the series.

Josh Selby has to be at or near the top of my list for player disappointment. His freshman year was wrecked by the suspension & injuries. If only he would have come back for his sophomore season! I have no doubt he could not only be on an NBA roster, but be an impact player in the league. I've seen some people say his family needed the money so he gambled and lost, but what a waste of talent to not have made it! He's still young so it could happen, but now it's a long shot.

EJ, mostly because I thought for being the #23 ranked recruit that we should have gotten more out of him. He languished away on the bench behind guys like Brady & Tyrel early in his career. He had a great junior year once finally being able to start, but had an up & down senior year with most fans pinning a lion's share of the blame on him for the Michigan loss.

Rio Adams. Loved the guy's game. Thought Self made a mistake in going with Tharpe as the back-up two seasons ago while banishing Adams to the bench. He did himself no favors, but that much raw talent going to waste is such a shame.

As far as teams go, the '11 MorrisHawks are at the top, as that is Self's best team to not win it all in my opinion, and the title was there for the taking that year. The '13 squad of 4 seniors + BMac losing to Michigan and the '10 senior Sherron squad are probably tied for the next two most disappointing teams with premature tourney exits. Both were capable of winning a title, although maybe they weren't the odds on favorites.

These are Self era teams mind you. The '96 team that lost in the sweet 16 to Arizona might have been even better than the '11 MorrisHawks. That one still stings.

@ralster Clearly you're a Heat guy. That's cool. I don't watch or care enough about the NBA to begrudge you that. But here's a few things:

First, regarding Wade - if he was pulling that crap for Okie St. or Iowa St., I think we would all have him as public enemy number 1. I don't buy that he's trying to craft an intimidating reputation. I like to think I judge him with very little bias: I loved his game at Marquette, thought he was one of the classier players in the league in his early years, etc. But I have a growing disgust for his cheap shots and flopping. I'm not the only one either:

http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/22311531/way-of-wade-flopping-dirty-plays-for-the-win ↗

And that's from a year ago, so it doesn't even take into account the more recent stuff (again, the knee to the head of Paul George). You may want to bash Stephenson, and his antics were foolish and silly, but were they dirty? Isn't a dirty player worse than a clown?

Second, surely you're not oblivious to the LBJ bashers? They had a field day after his cramps got the better of him in game 1. I believe that is what @REHawk was referring to when he said "recent" LBJ bashers. Within a day I saw videos put together of what is now called "LeBroning". Google it.

And for numerous reasons, LBJ will never be beloved or revered the way MJ was. Heck, maybe even not as much as Kobe was. Most of it is unfair. But again, following the cramps there were numerous things all over social media (twitter, facebook, instagram) criticizing LeBron. How Jordan gutted it out through the flu to carry his team to a playoff victory or how Kobe took foul shots with a torn achilles before walking off under his own power, yet LeBron had to be helped off the court by teammates in a playoff game they eventually lost.

Of course that's garbage, as cramps are more or less impossible to just "fight through".

Lastly, as for the criticism of the big 3, we hashed that out all on the Chalmers Decision thread. We'll have to agree to disagree. I still think it's different, and several NBA HOFers (who said nothing when the Celtics Big 3 came together), publicly came out against the LBJ-DWade-Bosh union.

(side note: I'm pretty sure Kobe had the last laugh, winning the '10 championship over Allen's Celtics and pretty much putting an end to the Boston Big 3's relevancy).

DWade fined $5k for the flop. Big deal. Chump change to this guy. Way to go all soccer on them tough guy. The only thing that's a bigger joke is his explanation:

"He took a swipe and he hit me," Wade said Monday, before the fine was announced. "It was a late call by the ref, but he called it."

"I saw Manu coming out of the corner of my eye to try to steal it so my only thing was to make sure that he didn't steal it," Wade said. "He swiped and he wound up hitting me and the ref called a foul. We move on."

But really, for as little as I watch NBA, it seems like he's developing a rep as one of (if not the ) dirtiest player in the league. Flopping aside, how many players does he have to "accidentally injure"? Paul George with the knee to the head in the Eastern Conference Finals. Kicking Ramon Sessions in the junk. Dislocating Rondo's elbow. And those are just the instances I remembered off the top of my head. Type "Dwyane Wade dirty" into a youtube or google search. It's unreal how classless & despicable this guy is.

Another reason to root against the Heat.

One other thing in watching the Finals last night - you can't tell me Josh Selby and Tyshawn aren't better than Norris Cole and Patty Mills. Just like when we were discussing the situation with Chalmers, the NBA is all about landing in the right situation at the right time.

@JayHawkFanToo Yeah, not sure how much more evidence needs to be presented before we are allowed to talk about this. LOL

In the absence of college hoops, I will on occasion turn to the NBA playoffs to get a little bit of a basketball fix. We already began talking about some NBA topics when musing on the future of Mario Chalmers, but I thought I'd create a thread just for some NBA talk.

I don't profess to be nearly as knowledgeable about the NBA as I am about KU hoops, but here are a few observations following 2 games of Finals action:

1) As has been discussed, Chalmers is in a contract year. And obviously everyone probably noticed his poor performance in game 1. However, I didn't realize the larger scope of his struggles. Here's a link to an espn.com artilce, as well as an excerpt from said article:

http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/11045535/miami-heat-mario-chalmers-eyes-rebound-performance-game-2 ↗

• "Chalmers hasn't had a double-figure scoring night since May 8, which would be a full month by the time Game 2 tips Sunday. Thursday's game was his second five-turnover game in his last six, during which his assist-to-turnover ratio is 1.1-to-1. He's averaging less than one made 3 per game in the postseason, and his 6.8 postseason scoring average and 5.8 field-goal attempts per game would be the lowest of his six playoff appearances."

In game 2 he played better, but that wasn't going to be difficult. Overall it was another poor performance. 4 pts, 4 ast, 3 rbs, 1 TO. Throw in the flagrant foul for elbowing Parker on a drive, and it all adds up to being hard to watch him right now. Definitely the wrong time to be playing some of the worst basketball of his professional career, heading into free agency.

2) Speaking of Chalmers' flagrant foul, the Spurs going 0-4 from the stripe following that foul was pivotal. You could say it cost them the game, given that they lost by 2, but we don't know how the rest of the game would have played out. But here's the situation: with 6:43 left Parker heads to the line, clearly shaken from the elbow, and misses both throws. Spurs keep the ball due to the flagrant, Duncan is fouled on the possession, and misses both of his free throws as well. At the time the Spurs were up by 2. If they hit say 3 out of 4 (as was their average on the other 16 free throws that game), they go up 5. Instead, they get nothing, LeBron comes down and nails a 3 to give the Heat the lead, and the momentum had clearly gone over to the Miami side.

3) Dewyane Wade pulled his best Marcus Smart flopper imitation during game 2. In the second quarter, he snapped his head back as if Lee Harvey hit him with a long range rifle shot when Ginobli took a swipe and miss at the ball. This drew Ginobli's 3rd foul and he sat the rest of the half I believe. Later in the game he went sprawling on the court as Tiago Splitter caught it on the blocks, spun, and made a lay-up. There was no call. Now ABC didn't show a replay, but either he tried flopping again and the refs didn't bite, or the refs found out he got one over on them in the first half and let that one go on purpose. In either case, not a good look for Wade. Some may call it smart, or justify it with "whatever you can get away with", but to me it's just poor sportsmanship. There's a difference between selling a call and flopping.

4) Overall, I thought the officiating was pretty poor. I will say that I think it has got to be an incredibly tough job to try an officiate such physical contests as the NBA finals have become. Despite this, I thought there was little consistency and several blown calls. The technical on Duncan was absurd. The technical on LeBron was more justified because you could see him dropping some F-bombs, but this was out of frustration at what looked like another blown call by the officials. Also, I know it's probably in line with the rules, but Van Gundy pointed out how ridiculous it is for a jump shooter to jump sideways (a totally unnatural motion for a jump shooter) into contact to draw a foul.

5) It used to be Shaq was considered the most difficult player to officiate. Now that title belongs to LeBron. He does get hacked with no whistle probably more than any other player. He also gets away with using his incredible strength to discard players more than any other player. It probably comes close to evening out, but it has to be frustrating for him & opponents alike.

6) Greg Popovich regularly gets credit for being one of the best coaches in the game, but I find myself more & more impressed by the coaching job Spolestra does. I know a lot of lesser educated fans tend to think a monkey could win with the talent he has at his disposal, but he really does make the adjustments to get the most out of his team.

That's about it for now. Game 3 Tuesday. I'm still saying Spurs in 7, but I would have felt a lot more confident about that pick had they gone up 2-0.

@JayHawkFanToo Well if you remember, we've hashed this out once. This is what started the whole race debate on another thread awhile back. And no, I definitely don't want to re-hash that. But you either believe that or you don't.

But notice I said quality of athlete. Not tougher players or more skilled basketball players. Athletes. So when you hear freshman talk about needing to adjust to the speed of the game, I think that is where athleticism comes in.

I just don't believe wherever he played in Russia was against the same quality of athlete that Wiggins played against here.

@drgnslayr I can't fathom Svi being as productive of Wiggins for several reasons. The first of which is opportunity. I just don't see him being able to log the minutes that Wiggins did. Competition at the 3 (Oubre, Greene), an entrenched starter at the 2 (Selden), and probably better suited for the position competition at the 1 (Mason, CF, Graham), if we are to believe he could in fact play there.

The second reason are the physical gifts of Wiggins. The athleticism, the verticle, the unmatched second jump, wingspan, added height, etc. Defensively I don't think it's going to be close. Not often do freshman come along with the ability to be as lock down as Wiggins was.

The third reason is competition. I don't think Svi has routinely played against the quality of athlete that Wiggins faced prior to coming to Lawrence. I think it is going to be more of an adjustment to the D-1 level for Svi than it was for Wigs (age will also factor into this).

The fourth reason is the composition of the team. Last year, Wiggins was expected to be the alpha. Even if Svi is given the minutes that Wiggins received, I can't imagine him being asked to have the same role. He'll have Selden on the wing. A year more experienced Selden, and hopefully a year where he has both good wheels. Perry is going to continue to get his, and Cliff will probably equal if not surpass the offensive production we got from Embiid.

And in saying all this, believe me it's not a knock against the guy. But when asking if it's possible for a guy to come in and out-produce the guy who just set the freshman scoring record and might be the #1 pick in the upcoming NBA draft...jeez no pressure Svi! LOL

@wissoxfan83 I think if you list Kieff, you have to list Marcus. Marcus was a better 4 man than Kieff in college.

And as @JayHawkFanToo has pointed out, it looks like you have a few players in what I would consider the wrong positions.

@HighEliteMajor Well and really he was the 4th post player this year, until Embiid got hurt. But I guess where I took issue was when you say he should get scraps of minutes in that role, whereas last year he saw regular minutes in that role as the 4th big.

Of course part of that might have been the unique chemistry he developed with our 3rd big - Tarik Black. We've certainly seen the 4th post man get scraps of minutes before as opposed to rotation level minutes.

I'm for getting off the merry-go-round as well. Originally, I was a "take talent when you can get it" guy, but AW3 was the breaking point for me. Before, it was pretty much end of the bench guys transferring. Or the occasional nuisance (Giddens). But never has a dedicated, highly ranked guy transferred out before quite like that. And I was all for his transferring, as you know. For his sake.

I'm also not opposed to the hypothetical discussions either. Flexibility would be nice wouldn't it?

@HighEliteMajor I guess the counter-point to your counter-point is: where does it end?

By you rationale, all the successful, KU grads who have put in more money into the university - either via tuition, donations, ticket purchases, etc. - have more of a right to seats than the students. So what do you do when another 120 KU grads with money come calling to the university wanting seats? And the next 120?

Do we not stop until the students are in the DeBruce Center, as slayr said? Until it's an NBA atmosphere and they're pumping loud music in throughout the game to help create the feel of some psuedo-energy?

And the argument that "it's just a measly 120 seats. Big deal" is flimsy. If it wasn't a big deal, why bother in the first place?

I think at the end of the day, economics aside, you can't tell me that having less students or students farther away from the action is best for a college atmosphere.

@HighEliteMajor Why am I a big fan of Traylor?

Well, I like his story. You can't help but not root for the guy, knowing what he went through, where he's come from.

But that really doesn't have anything to do with basketball. So from a basketball perspective, he brings tremendous energy. And that's pretty much all he was his freshman year - an energy guy. A hustle guy. Then last year he progressed and was able to put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop. He showed a face-up jumper on occasion. And he's athletic. For a guy who hasn't been playing basketball that long, seeing his improvement, I think it's worth seeing if he continues to improve. He's not on an Embiid-like trajectory, but he's still moving upwards.

Not sure what bringing up the Stanford game has to do with anything. I'm not advocating that the guy start or that we run offense through him. I'm saying he should continue to see rotation level minutes off the bench. I'd actually say if teams want to game-plan to stop a the 3rd or 4th post player, let them. Let them all day. We should have enough talent that if that's what they're game planning for we can make the pay in other areas. Should.

And there's always the fact that Traylor saved us from an embarrassing first round defeat against Eastern Kentucky with a 17 point, 14 rebound performance.

So I guess that's a little bit of why I'm a fan of Traylor.

Yes he is somewhat limited, although again he keeps improving so maybe not so much this next year? And I'd argue that Greene in the post is limited. I'm not against seeing Greene at the 4 in certain situations. But I would argue that Traylor fits better into what Self will want to do without creating a bunch of new wrinkles or having to cover him defensively. And at the end of the day, I have to wonder if this isn't just an academic discussion, much like the use of a zone. We've seen Self have success going smaller before, using AW3 in the role. Then he abandoned it. Is there any reason to think he'll regularly use such a plan?

@drgnslayr Couldn't agree with you more slayr. This is a travesty!

@justanotherfan A few things: first, that's a pretty inexcusable and colossal mistake on the part of "a very smart" Thunder front office. A franchise-changing mistake. A balance of power in the western conference changing mistake. Given this, do they really get to keep the title "very smart"?

Secondly, I do think market size matters. It may not be the be all and end all, but it's important. Maybe not solely for financial reasons, but just for the players' desire to play in certain places. NBA players don't want to play in Milwaukee or Minnesota or Toronto. Carmelo famously opined to play in New York. Shaq wanted the glamorous Hollywood lifestyle of LA. Lebron took his talents to South Beach.

And lastly, when you talk about teams and the picks they have, realize that the NBA draft is not all that likely to change the fortunes of the downtrodden franchises. The reason for this is two-fold: first, there are so few franchise changing players. I would argue that a majority of the drafts don't have a franchise changer. Certainly there are exceptions (2003 had multiple franchise changers), but those only serve to highlight the multiple years in which there aren't any. You mention Cleveland having 3 number one picks in 4 years. They did pretty good with the Kyrie Irving pick; probably as good as you could hope. They appear to have whiffed on Anthony Bennett. But in those drafts, was there someone they missed on that had they chosen him their franchise would have been able to pull themselves out of lottery-status? Maybe too early to tell on last year's Bennett draft, but really no one stands out there. This year Embiid has that potential to be a franchise changer. But think about that - if Embiid is that type of player, Cleveland had three #1 overall picks in four years and didn't stumble upon a player of his caliber until the last of those three opportunities.

The second reason the draft isn't likely to change the fortunes of the NBA's worst teams is the NBA draft lottery. Even in the years that there is a franchise changer in the draft, just because you are the worst team doesn't mean you're guaranteed to get him. Sometimes it happens; Cleveland I think was the worst team in the Lebron draft. But then you have years like this year, Cleveland was the 9th worst team in the league. Not the worst. 9th worst. And they had a 1.7% chance of landing that pick. Same in league rank and percentage chance in 2008 with the Bulls. In 2008 the Bulls landed Derrick Rose. I'd argue he was a franchise changer. Injuries have derailed his career quite a bit, but he was rookie of the year his first year, NBA all-star his second year, and league MVP his third year. Pretty good career trajectory huh? Second pick in that draft - Michael Beasley. He had some solid years, but not franchise changing by any stretch. This year I think the Bucks (who had the worst record) are fairly lucky that guys like Parker & Wiggins will be there at #2, although time will tell how everyone's career plays out I suppose.

Anyway, I think what all this illustrates is that having a smart NBA front office still won't guarantee you success. Because, as was kind of the point of my posts to ralster, if you are fortunate enough to get one franchise changer in the draft, you really have to be able to now go out and find a second one to be able to compete at the higher levels. And then you need a third, maybe not franchise changer, but all-star caliber player if you want to have a realistic shot at winning titles. You mention Portland. I think they're close. Aldridge is very underrated, and Lillard might be at the level of being that third all-star level player. But they need that second elite level talent to pair with Aldridge. Can they lure someone there via free agency? Luck out in the draft? Probably not. So look for them to continue to be a good, but not great franchise. And Denver, despite their bevy of draft picks, is no where close. Ty Lawson is the face of the franchise right now. They're a ways off.

Such is the luck of the draw in the NBA today.

@jaybate 1.0 Selby absolutely was an NBA-type player. He would be in the league now had one of two things happened:

1) He hadn't had the nightmare freshman season derailed by suspension & injuries

2) He would have came back for his sophomore season to show scouts what he was capable of.

Either of those things happen, he goes in the first round, has a guaranteed contract, and is almost certainly on a roster somewhere today.

@Crimsonorblue22 @VailHawk I remember the 5 in 5 out a lot here at KU. I think though usually at least 1 or 2 guys were non-rotation level players (walk-ons in some cases).

@ralster First let me say that no, "the Announcement" doesn't really matter, and I don't really care. However, the idea that Miami got it's "big 3" the same way other teams in the past and present have done is largely inaccurate. As I stated before - it was the way they were put together. Jordan & Pippen were both drafted by a down Bulls franchise. Add Horace Grant from the first 3peat and all three of their premier players were attained via the draft (as was most of the roster in general). From their second 3peat Toni Kukoc was also added via the draft. Now they added other pieces - Rodman & Harper - via free agency, but again the big 3 all drafted. OKC - Durant, Westbrook, Harden...all drafted by the Thunder/Sonics.

As you pointed out, the Celtics with Pierce there already, and Garnett & Allen acquired via trades. To me, this is another area that differentiates them from the Heat. With the Celtics, they had to trade away a lot of complimentary pieces to acquire their big 3, thus the supporting cast was weaker than that of today's Heat. Also, all three of the Celtics big 3 were in the downside of their careers at the time. Not one was in his prime. I forget if it's Simmons or Rick Reilly that is the big Celtics fan, but he said the over/under on championships for that group when they were brought in was 1.5. Two or more meant it was a success, 1 or none meant it was a disappointment. Obviously they only got the one, having lost their opportunity for a second to the Kobe & Pau Gasol Lakers. But think about that, a fan of the Celtics thought 1.5 championships was the over/under, now compare that with the Heat who are in their 4th straight NBA finals. And when Lebron signed with the Heat said they'd win what...6? 7? (memory fuzzy, but it was a lot). Now was that an overconfidence? Perhaps a bit, but I think everyone knew they should win more than the 1.5 the Celts were slated for after they got their big 3.

The only time I can think of it done remotely the same way was with the Lakers. During one stretch they acquired Shaq via free agency, drafted Kobe, and then after a couple of titles tried bringing in Malone & Payton. Not exactly the same, as both of those players were in the twilight of their careers. They had a one year window (with Malone & Payton), which was slammed shut by Larry Brown's Pistons sweeping them out of the Finals.

To me all these subtle differences add up to a monumental advantage for the Heat franchise. Getting 2 of the 3 stars via free agency, both in the primes of their career.

I guess part of what bugs me about it is that it shines a light on the haves & have nots in the NBA. While I love watching basketball far more than football, one great thing about the NFL is that if you have a competent front office & coaching staff, you can rebuild and you have as good a shot as any to compete for championships. Small market teams are not exempt from this. However, in the NBA, you can collect 3 superstars (and 2 via free agency) and distance yourself from at least 80% of the league. Obviously this is due in part to the number of players on NFL teams and on the field at one time versus the 5 players on the court for a basketball team, but still. Just ask yourself, even if a team like...Milwaukee or Minnesota had the best front office and coaching staffs in the league, could you fathom either of those franchises building a Heat-like dynasty in today's NBA climate? We've already seen once in recent history, the small-market Thunder couldn't see a financial way to keep Harden so they traded him.

Of course that isn't Lebron's fault, or DWade's. I don't begrudge them wanting to play together, and as I said before I didn't begrudge Lebron leaving Cleveland. And it's not on Riley. I mean, is he not supposed to do his job and try and put together the best collection of talent? Of course that's what he's supposed to do. There's just something about it that doesn't sit right. That seems, as I said before, seedy.

I'm not alone on this. Jordan & Magic came out against it following "the decision." A few years ago there was a panel of ex-NBA players sitting around talking about this. Barkley & Ewing were on there, as well as others I can't remember. I don't remember exactly why they were against it, as I don't think they had really good reasons themselves, just that in their day you wouldn't see guys colluding a full season out to try and create a super-team while still with their current clubs. I do remember Barkley saying that he wanted to accomplish something for himself (which I thought ironic considering he left for Phoenix, although Barkley plus any other two members of the Suns weren't near what Miami's big 3 are), and that he didn't want to "gravy train" off someone else for a championship. To me that was a powerful sentiment from two guys that never won an NBA championship.