Comparisons to former proven greats, like BenMac, may have to wait.
Why?
Vick is the FOURTH option on this team!!!!
Can you imagine how much easier he has it than BenMac had it as the #1 option????
I don't think Vick has even faced a single double team, or forearm smash!!!!
Vick could become as good.
But we may not be able to tell it, until he gets to the NBA.
He may never become the guy they scheme to stop all season, as BenMac experienced his one year on the sacred wood.
• LAGERALD GOES LAWILD!--Vick shows the mark of a great player. After an off game he comes back BIG. The guy is now beyond consistent. He is consistently dangerous.
•Frank "32rd degree" Mason--Frank shows he is again the eye in the capstone overseeing and looking out for the team pyramid. 8 assists and 6 reebs is now his version of an off night.
• KUDOKA BECOMES KUPOSTA--Every team need a BIG man--a guy who moves around like he runs the junk yard, like give him the ball and he will put his man in the crusher and dunk the suckuh! KUDOKA is the guy who does not have to get mad to stare down opponents. We found our big man for the first 5-7 minutes of each half--a guy who sets some tone and stability that offsets these other four high flyin' birds. He will struggle against true D1 bigs, but whenever he can stay out of foul trouble and so be a load the opponent has to worry about Self bringing back in, he is THE POSTA! But don't rim hang please. Coach K will ref bait that to a T.
• DEVONTE IS STILL NOT THE FULL MONTE, but he's inching back to the razor's edge each game. Maybe he is dealing with everyone in D1 stealing his "do" this season!!!
• JOSH "THE SHOT WILL GET UNTRACKED" JACKSON--he may be the first floor game OAD, and that's amazing, but look for him to supernova the night the Trey falls!
• LANDEN BRAGG aka CARLTON LUCAS--post fusion is buying these two studs time to get healthy and find their games. They are now in GETTING BETTER 101 and will be forces by January, wheels and knees permitting. Their committee is already a double double guy, gimps and all!!!
ROCK CHALK!!!
@kjayhawks said:
I think we are a better team from Frank doesn't have to take over and score 20+ points.
This so true of most great players!
Its apparent that Tyler Self is being groomed to make a triple overtime game winning trey.
It is his fate.
FRANK MASON IS SICK!!!!
On a flipping ice cold night for him (50% from the field and 33% from Trey and 1-2 at the stripe), Frank "Absolute Man" Mason decides to dish 8 assists, while grabbing flipping 6 rebounds. Frank out rebounded Bragg, Coleby, Lightfoot, AND Jackson. From the point guard position!!!!
Put this rebounding "thang" of his in perspective: Frank out rebounded every player on Long Beach State! From the point guard position!!!!!!!
Frank Mason got 8 assists, while splitting ball handling/initiating chores with two starters and a sub!!!!!
We're going to have to start keeping a new game stat for point guards, because of Frank Mason:. It will be named for him. (Assist + Rebounds)/TOs. >1 is good. It will be called the Mason Statistic of Total Point Guard Domination. It will be abbreviated to either the M-Stat, or the TPGD stat.
What this guy does on his OFF NIGHTS is often more impressive than when he is leading the team in scoring and scoring five straight possessions.
I actually wore out my exclamation mark key on Frank Mason.
What the hell!!!
Give Frank two OAD branding games, like all the OADs (the ones good enough to start) are given.
Frank would hang 40 in each game and probably ramp up to a lottery pick!!!
I'm not picking on you here. You said Rush was a great player. I'm still trying to get my head around the idea others think Josh IS better!
Him not being a senior brings them a season closer.
But the crucial point of comparison remains: could Josh EVER be remotely as good as Rush WAS with the multiple knee injuries Rush incurred, if Josh incurred them at the same stages?
Rush was soooooo much stronger and every bit as athletic before injury, and he could jump shoot circles around Josh all over the floor. Heck, Rush seemed as athletic as Josh AFTER Rush's first knee injury that brought him back for the junior season. Josh SEEMS a better ball handler but not at all the lock down defender Rush was. Rush guarded everyone from 1-4 positions over the years. Hell, Rush didn't do a half bad job even on flipping Kevin Durant tho Durant did keep scoring! Josh hasn't even stepped on the shellac with someone like Durant. Good lord, I like Josh, but doesn't he have to do something better than dribble better than Rush to actually be better?
I'm having trouble calling Josh better, when the only thing he can do is dribble better.
It's difficult for still-billies to post soberly, while they are hooked up to Jim Beam IV drips.
Pick your opponent.
What would Frank's numbers look like with 20-25 FGAs?!!!!!
Come on, Coach Self, the guy deserves a branding game as much as Andrew, BenMac, or any OAD!!!!
Every great senior should be given a brander!
Hell, let him break Bud Stallworth's record. Give 30-35 FGAs on a hot night and Frank could break it in his sleep!
It would guaranty he were drafted first round.
Go, Frank, go!!!!!
P.S.: No disrespect to Isaac either. He did his without the Trey!
Hell, yeah!!!!!
He is the best PG in the country.
Even the PGs that match even with him on usual PG chores can't pull down 11 reebs!!!!!
Go, Frank, go!!!!
So you think Josh could be the hub of an NCAA ring team and have as long of an NBA career as Rush has had with the same injuries that Rush has had at the same points of his career? That's what it would take to argue that Josh is even comparable to Rush, right?
Man, I just don't know if I can go there with you.
I'm not even sure Josh is good enough to carry this team to a ring fully healthy yet.
I know Josh is a few seasons younger than Rush, was as a senior. But going back to Rush's freshman year, Self by about this time just put the team on Rush's back and said carry us. Chalmers wasn't ready for the full load yet. Do you really think Josh is ready to be the man that carries this team as a freshman?
I don't know. That feels like a bit of a stretch right now.
I think Josh is good, but better than Rush?
Whew!
I'll have to think about that for awhile.
Two 6-7 210 pounders with lousy treys making it in the L in the age of the trey. Amazing!!
Has he always been this poor of a shooter from Trey?
I don't see how see how've could play in the NBA with the Trey he has shown so far. He reminds me of Julian Wright.
Luke proved last season he could do it with 2 good feet.
He is trying to figure out how to do it on 1 foot.
It takes time.😄
Gee, I wonder if we are being prepared for Mange to come back as the offensive coordinator next year.
HOWLING!!!!
I believe the NSA could do that...without your knowledge. 😄
Maybe the ranking is weighted negatively for corruption?
I've been waiting for a breakout post from you this season. This was it!
I want to take it a little farther.
Not only can Self play either guy at point playmaker, he can play either guy at either wing as wing point playmaker.
And by the end of the season he may be able to do the same with Josh and Lagerald.
Imagine opposing teams not sure which of four positions the playmaker would initiate from!!!!!!!
It is a stunning strategic prospect.
Are you kidding me? All those folks matriculated even part way through college at LBSU?!!!!
That is amazing!!!
They all ought to band together and endow that place and it would become one of the most respected universities in the world!!!!!
Screw USC and UCLA.
LBSU is the PEOPLE"S IVY!!!!
Interesting point.
I don't take drugs.
But mind altering drug usage was apparently very widespread before, say, 1930 when criminalization of substances increased, and it appears culture got on as well without the criminalization as with. We sure as hell didn't used to need so many persons imprisoned and were a much freer country, when mind altering drug usage was largely tolerated. And crime is greater now by most measures.
I have always been intensely anti-addictive drug decriminalization, but I increasingly wonder if drug criminalization were just the first big failure of the generally disasterous attempts by private oligarchy to use the state to social engineer us for the too narrow interest and net benefit of private oligarchy.
Not ready to come out for total decriminalization of all mind altering and/or addictive drugs but thinking about it for the first time ever.
There sure was a lot more invention going on back at that time.
Today we get whatever the rational grind of science can give us, but our drug denied inventors are kind of fallow.
Maybe we would have a lot more inventors with drugs more available, as they once were. 😄
You are rightly willing to assign blame to Weis for the lack of depth.
I agree that there is no shortcut to dealing with the problem, but of course insist there are smarter and dumber ways to manage it that will reduce or lengthen the degree of the problem sooner or later.
Focusing recruiting to Improve the numbers and shortness of talent falloff of the second string rather than focusing on improving first string is the smart way. KU is apt to get almost none of the guys that can step in and play way better than even their meager first stringers. Where they can make a lot of improvement and probably get all the guys they want is for the second string. There are tons of high school kids that will trade being buried 4 deep for being buried 1 or 2 deep. This is how you accelerate the process of getting to mediocrity. Then in phase 2 you focus on the guys that don't want to be buried 1 or 2 deep; that takes you to a third to 4th place team. Then you you go to phase 3 for the final ascent.
Now for the real reason for responding: why did Zenger do what he did with Weis?
Zenger made 3 horrible decisions with KU football after firing Gill, who had built a good program at Buffalo and who went on to build a good program at Liberty.
1.) Zenger hired Weis who argued the completely ridiculous notion that he could build a winner by relying on Catholic high schools for recruits. This was absurd on its face, since he had been unable to do it at Notre Dame.
2.) He let Weis run a third of the squad. This was absurd strategy on its face, since there was no indication even then that Weis was going to be able to replace them with high school recruits.
3.) He let Weis build with juco guys. This was absurd strategy on its face, because the cupboard would be bare, tramp athletes would abound, and there was again no indication Weis could replace them with high school students even slowly.
The above is not hindsight. I or some others said so at the time at each step.
Leaving aside that he caved into apparent racial and religious pressure to fire KU's first black, fundamentalist head football coach, why did Zenger make these three obviously stupid and consecutive decisions?
The reason for asking is that he also has not had much success with his woman's basketball hire, and Beatty is at best not ahead of the curve turning KU football around, so it appears KU needs to make a contingency plan for hiring coaches, if Zenger is to remain the AD.
I am not down on Zenger and wanting him fired, rather I am wanting to recognize that he may have great strengths as a business administrator, and yet we probably need to firewall him from all hiring decisions regarding head coaches. And we need to do this before Self leaves.
Nice job. That was a lot of ground to cover.
Like all leaders, Beatty needs a little luck with things he can't control, like the ebbs and flows of other programs, to help the turn around.
Lack of depth is scarier in football than basketball, because big fall offs in talent at more than a few positions not only make matchups hard at a position, but introduce nonlinear breakdowns in a complex team system.
The biggest thing separating football and basketball is the greater number of players involved. Football spikes up complexity and so unforseeable consequences. Depth reduces the risk of the unforeseen compounding failure in a two platoon, 11 man game.
Each player is at least four normal distributions: talent, development, health and focus. Each game, where each player is on each distribution, determines each player's actual aggregate level of performance. Additively speaking, then, a football team is an attempt to get 11 players, or 44 normal distributions performing.
In principle, the best team fields the 11 players performing farthest out in the right tail of the 44 normal distributions. Coaching of skills and scheming help bias the distributions to the right, but on any given day the variance in any of a player's levels in any of the four distributions can be beneath the required level for that day's match up, and the ONLY possible solution is another player with a different, even if only for that day, and net preferable set of 4 distributions. Without "effective" depth, i.e., backup players that actually on a given day remedy (minimize) that day's deficiencies in the starter, the shortfall created at just one position radiates out into 4 deficient linkages with ten other positions, or 40 possibilities for breakdowns from reduced performance. If a team lacks effective depth at all 11 positions, as KU has tended to, starting with the Weis' purge, it faces up to 440 possible breakdowns from deficiency every snap, just from second stringers alone. Injuries often make it necessary to dip to third stringers, which worsen the issue.
The reason a coach should opt to emphasize recruiting effective depth over peak per performers is to get out of the jaws of so much unmanageable, unforseeable, compounding complexity. It has no strategic remedy.
Eventually you have to have great players making great plays to get to the top. But until you can have effective backups for great players, they actually problematic in triggering cascading compounding complexity, if you depend heavily on them, everytime they are not healthy, or mentally focused.
Football is a numbers game of depth in order to avoid the unforeseen consequences of complexity.
Beatty needs to improve his second and third strings perhaps more than his first string, and I know his first string is still wanting.
But I agree with your assessment that there are a few signs that Beatty turned part of a very big corner.
The single best book to understand where the game came from and how it got to what it is today is Dean Smith's "Basketball: Multiple Offense and Defense." Just read some of the comments about it.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/714867.Basketball ↗
It's so straight forward that you don't get that he just distilled 3/4 of a cenutry into one easy to understand book. He left out all the chaff.
Any thing by Bob Knight. Anything.
Phog Allen's books (I've read two) are hard to find, but they are essentially Genesis. He was an experimentor/inventor, not a systematizer. But he experimented with every thing.
Claire Bee. Not his boys fiction, though his fiction has a lot of what Basketball was once like albeit sanitized.
Basically go to bookfinder.com and enter any coach names you admire and see what they have written. Most wrote little, but some have written.
But read Dean's book first, then Knight on motion offense.
Pete Newell wrote and is important.
I can't recall if Iba wrote a.book. He wrote something about the swinging gate defense.
Anything Wooden wrote is important but he mostly wrote about fundamentals rather than strategy.
Awesome. Thanks!! Good is good in cue. Trendy or not.
I missed the call on Frank as a frosh. I saw an after burner, but I didn't see a lot of other strengths.
He has developed. Sherron was so far along, when he started as a frosh, and he was crazy strong and explosive and had the shots and the dribbles. But injury and wear and tear slowly dulled his edge some. Frank has had a lot of injury, but he seems to come back stronger and better after each injury. He is just insanely conditioned!!! And good as he is at everything, he remains a rebounding freak of nature.
I believe we're on the same page. Don't like it on my cue either, but about one day a week i make a bed of grits with chicken stock, scramble eggs, for breakfast or a fritatta, put either on my grits and lightly sprinkle the sauce on the eggs and grits. Sometimes I throw last night's shrimp and veggies too. I forget the name of the sauce, but it's from a restaurant in Savannah and a pal in Charleston says it's pretty much the same through out South Carolina and Georgia low country. You notice the mustard and I note the vinegar. But I really like it with eggs and grits, and hate see it on bones or meat. I may be the only person in the world that uses their sauce this way, but I love it.
Thx for the tip. I will now have an excuse to get out to salt and wheat country. I hope Roy's is salty. It's seems organic to that region!
It's good to hear you say that. I kind of hang onto AB's on faith between my usually 2 year intervals between visits. Every since it was sold to the KC Masterpeace folks, I have feared each business downturn and each new barbecue sauce competitor I see on grocery store shelves, But to their credit they seem to have remained true to the cue. Arthur himself was never a food god and would have laughed at the thought of it . He was just a smart man who recognized a good sauce and dedicated himself to making a genuinely distinct barbecue food with a sustainable cost benefit model. This what so many persons forget that fall in love with cue. It's gotta pencil out; that was part of the beauty of cue early on and what made it democratic cuisine. The ribs were originally free for the taking off the scrap piles at the old Wilson, Swift and Armour packing plants. The potatoes were cheap. The onions were cheap. The beans were cheap. The sauce was cheap. And if it made people drink the Gangsters beer and liquor, the police protection was cheap. Barbecue was a bottom up business that finally moved to the burbs and got branded same as basketball shoes. I'm not knocking all the new cue, any more than I would knock all the new music. But if you've ever had Arthur's before or after a day baseball game in July, and gone to a joint that still plays some KC Jazz sets that night, then you know your barbecue and music daddy and you know benchmarks from which to reliably survey what has followed. Arthur's is for be where all the branches and flavors of barbecue came together in a constitution. America is a change within broad limits kind of country. It's constitution, its barbecue and jazz are the embodiments of America. They constitute in governance/food/music what is worth defending in America for posterity. Good government for everyone. Good food for everyone. Good Music for everyone. Improvisation with in limits is not fool proof. Not all administrations, rib joints and bands are great. But if we keep trying and changing we keep muddling forward closer rather than just staying stuck. But to change some things have to stay the same, or you can't survey where you have come from reliably. We were founded by a band of surveyors and chart plotting sailors. We must never forget this. Where we've been and where we are have to be known to get where we are going; this is what too many of the progressives AND conservatives fighting for the control tower want us to forget, want to rewrite and make us forget. Arthur Bryant's is one truly tasty way of remembering who we are.
Agreed, but don't underestimate the difficulty of replacing Frank. Devonte might, but then could we replace Devonte and his near Frank like gifts on his wing when Devonte moves to point. These are the most gifted developed players at 1 and 2 guards since RR/Chalmers/Sherron. Very few point guards can go get a long Trey, or a short Trey, against almost ANYONE even when being trapped.
I suspect the reason our wings are feasting, despite no inside game to keep defenders honest inside out is that Frank is keeping wing defenders honest side-to-side outside. Most teams know that Frank can ALMOST ALWAYS shake free for a long or short Trey even on his off nights. Thus they HAVE to hedge to Frank even though our other guys are quite good. Frank is a great one. Very few point guards can just score at will 5 straight times on demand at the end, even when being schemed against. Frank can. That is greatness in college basketball.
@BShark said:
Bill mentioned the starting line-up my change based on the scouting report. That would be a first!
Read this again and it made me laugh AGAIN!!
Totally not where I expected!
I thought we were a lock for a big manly man kind of high low game, not this GUARDS'R US stuff. Thought GUARDS'R US would just be one gear, not the whole tranny!
Also didn't expect Josh both to struggle with scoring efficiency so much AND to do so many things so well in his floor game this soon.
Informative assessment. Thx.
Doke had game, but it wasn't against studs, so I'm wait and see with him.
Josh, despite staying a Free Mason outside, had a big time floor game that finally got me jazzed about him. HE....WAS...ACTIVE!
Vick really ticked up my like meter!!
Those three have some chemistry together. Interesting to watch it unfold.
Frank and Devonte are just sooooo reliable and good!
Bragg needs Santa to bring him new knee tendons.
Big Luke needs a new ankle.
Tough sledding for Luke/Bragg.
And yes....GET OFF THE RIMS.
HOWLING!!!!
Charleston to Savannah like a lot of vinegar in the sauce. I disliked those vinegar sauces during a first visit, but brought a bottle home once and grew to like it but not prefer it. Real cue gets in your face and can take sometime to get used to. Sugary cue is "like me, like me," but some of the spicier stuff is "take me as I am." I grew up with Bryant's in KC and its to0 "take me as I am" for many folks. And saltwater Gullah and freshwater Gullah are different, according to some folks I know. But a friend tells me there is a great barbecue in-land from Charleston that knocks your socks off, then I saw Anthony Bourdain visited it and it looked like bones done right. Can't recall the name. But yeah, there is a vinegar curtain somewhere between North Carolina and South Carolina and it becomes and acquired taste south of that curtain. I always wondered if the Seppardic Jews of Charleston might have brought some that vinegar influence, but these days everything is scoped to West African sources. Needs more research.
Absolutely agree.
But Self is making clear to him that Vick is doing more.
And Josh is doing more.
And Self believe Svi is an explosive player that is supposed to be doing more than gluing.
Self has talked a number of times about Svi's potential to be a major impact player.
Self is saying: this is NOT enough.
I hope this isn't how its going to go, but...
Self is having a little manning-up show down with Big Luke and Bragg. He's saying, "Look, guys, I don't care about you're pain. You're playing through and that's all there is to it. And your minutes and starting depend on how well you play, even when you are injured. See?"
In the weird, wonderful world of Bill Self not one but three guards our rebounded our Deuce and 3 Quarter Footer. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!! HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE BASKET BALL? Frankly, Vick, Mason, and Graham outbounded every KU big man but Bragg and Frank even tied him.
Real big men, the kind that are territorial like lions, you know, the kind that walk around the paint snorting and cursing with eyes flashing and muttering "the paint is mine, don't even think about coming in here," those kind of big men, the kind KU used to have, well, those kind of big men would call a meeting for front court players at some bulk restaurant with an all you can eat and drink buffet and grab a circular booth in the back in the dark and begin talkin' in big, deep Barry White Muther@#$%^ing voices about putting the little pip squeak boys on the floor every time they come into OUR BOX. They would be scowling and wolfing prime ribs whole and shooting colt 45s and gettting more and more mule-ly the more hot buttered roles the terrified waiter keeps bringing.
Real big men would be called by their typically formidable mothers and told not to come home again for real cooking until they get their mommas double digit rebounds and bounce a few of those "little boys" off on the way to giant, manly man dunks. Mothers of real big men are nothing to mess with. Hell neither are the fathers. Fathers of real big men would take their sons out on the drive way and back the mofo's down 15 straight times and slap them up side the head 5 times and say, "Don't you EVER humiliate your mother and me like that again. I didn't work unloading those semis in 100 degree heat and zero degree cold for 19 years so you could go out and stink up the floor. Now bring us some boards, or don't come home, ya hear?!!"
Really, I think this group of big men are too much for Bill Self and Norm Roberts to handle. Bill Self and Norm Roberts were girlie men perimeter players in college. They don't think like big men. They don't talk like big men. They don't dress like big men. They don't smile like big men. Big men smile like they are going to eat you for breakfast. They smile like you are one little pip squeak and I'm not going to smash here at the Wheel, but you come in my paint, and I'm going to put a knot on your head the size of a bowling ball, you got that? That's how real big men smile when they are looking down on your lowly ass.
These big men of KU are NOT REAL big men. Not yet. They are tall choir boys with no primitive sense of territoriality.
They are big over weight guards that cannot dribble well.
That is all they are until Self calls their parents in and their mothers and fathers go to work on them.
It isn't going to be pretty.
The press will have to be denied access to what is going to be said.
The shaming is going to ooze out from under the locked door of the lockerroom like blood coming out of the elevator in The Shining.
Everything else has been tried; that much is clear. The guards have talked to them. The coaches have talked to them. Former players have texted them. But none of it has worked.
Its time to call the fathers and mothers in.
Oh, hell, just cut straight to the mothers.
I hate to do it to any young man.
But its time to lock them in their with their mothers and let their mothers do whatever awful thing it is they do to young big men to shame them into playing up to their abilities.
Go ahead. Get on with it!!!
Glancing at stats...
Doke 8-9 for 17 points!!!! Self has decided to put the team on his back 5 minutes at a time. But he needs to watch the TOs and get back on the glass. A Deuce and Three Quarter footer with 3 reebs? Pitiful.
Josh had a really active floor game. I'm loving 4 reebs, 2 steals, 7 assists, 3 blocks, only 1 pop tart, and a partridge in a pear tree.
Frank being a man, but Frankie, don't let those pop tarts creep up on you.
Devonte? 4 FGAs? Guess he was gassed from 6 boards and 11 assists. I'm still very worried about his knees.
Vick just iced most improved back court player for the pre con. Hyper efficiency. 6-7 FG and 3-4 3pt and and 9 boards!!! Holy cow! Who says you have to have visible legs to glass vac?!!!!!
Bragg and Big LUKE did not look very good, but at the same time they were NOT bad. And that's improvement.
Coleby didn't do himself any favors, but he did get 3 reebs in a short time.
Svi is playing himself down the list of rotation players. He's not playing bad. He's just not impacting enough.
Lightfoot should get an earlier look next game. Not much earlier, but a little earlier.
Shocking ESPN headlines.
Sexworkerville lost.
Huggybear's maulers lost.
Ratso Izzo apologies to his team for the tough schedule. :scream:
And this insider link: HOW DUKE AND KENTUCKY GET ALL THE TALENT
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/18105765/duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-get-all-top-players ↗
Someone needs to read that for me. I can't bring myself to read it.
So what is all the Korean spam we've been getting lately.
Some fan from the WUGs trying to connect without using the translator, or what?
Definitely. Although I would not complain if Tyler were given a look at starting at the 4. :innocent:
I'm going with the trey percentage as the decisive factor.
But the guy shoots FTs every day!!!!!
And they practice from time to time in AFH.
And he warms up there every game.
He knows these baskets like Trump knows Trump Tower.
He's got to be able to make 1 of 3 even back to the basket.
Its my feeling that at the rate our front court is developing, we can expect three legitimate post moves next home game. I'm not sure we're ready for three on the road, though.
Awesome. Two legitimate post moves in a single game? We ARE coming along.
Is this the first season we have played two bulldogs in the same pre conference season? I guess consecutively?
Well, home cooking certainly agrees with our guys.
Hey, if these guys are going to shoot treys at the end, then i'm glad we kept pulling the trigger from trey.