@icthawkfan316 Personally, I'd like to find a Jacque Vaughn type point guard and see us turn up the speed several notches. If that does not happen, I think Frankamp would do a nice job in our current stupid Globetrotter Shuffle offense. He's smart and hard working and doesn't make stupid mistakes.
nuleafjhawk
5999 posts
Keep the format the same, so that the "Cinderellas" can have their 15 minutes.
Only difference - to determine the National Champion, have the final two teams play a three game series. (Or two, if that's all that's needed)
And give Kansas an automatic berth in the Championship game every year for having the best fan website.
Rock Chalk KUBuckets !!
@JayHawkFanToo I made the remark in jest, but honestly they need to stay, as you say, at least 3 years.
This is a lot deeper than wanting to keep our favorite players around campus. This is just one aspect of our crumbling society (don't mean to be too melodramatic, but I honestly feel that way). Very few people want to plan and do things the right way - we have to have it all RIGHT NOW.
But we keep doing the same thing over and over. We make these teenagers filthy rich and 10-15 years later they're broke and/or in trouble. The ones that stay and get a degree FIRST know the value of hard work. And at least if things don't pan out in the NBA, or if they retire, they will have that degree.
Regardless of the money situation, I commented on another thread that these OAD's just don't register in my brain as Jayhawks that I will always love and revere. I need to get to know them for more than a few months for that to happen.
Anyway, sorry to rant - it's one of those subjects I just need to learn to let go of.
@justanotherfan I recently read an article somewhere that stated that 60% of retired NBA players are bankrupt 5 years after they leave the game.
Maybe they should stay in college four years and get a business/finance degree.
Danny Manning
Clyde Lovellette
Paul Pierce
Raef LaFrentz
Nick Collison
Jo Jo White
Kirk Hinrich
Bud Stallworth
Jacque Vaughn
Drew Gooden
Wilt Chamberlain
I asked myself to come up with the first few Jayhawks that came to my mind as the greatest or most favorite Jayhawks of all time. This took me about - 30 seconds. Every one of them were here for four years, except Paul, Drew and Wilt who were all Juniors when they left. These guys seem like family to me. When I talk about KU basketball with my communist (non KU) friends, my chest puffs out talking about these guys.
I'm sorry, there is no OAD that will ever be on that list in MY mind. They're not even here long enough to get to know them. I don't dislike them. I'm happy they chose Kansas ( I guess ). I just don't get to know them long enough to care.
Just this second it dawned on me that my life long goal is NOT to win a National Championship every year. I suppose that's the idea behind the OAD's. Screw that. I want guys here that make me proud of Kansas basketball. Like the guys listed above. I want to puff my chest out 20 years from now talking about the Players - not the number of banners.
Maybe I'll feel differently after more coffee.
@drgnslayr So true....
@drgnslayr We might get to the Final Four!!
@justanotherfan Duke should be penalized EVERY year for having a coach that looks like a rat.
@jaybate 1.0 Maybe we could just have some little handkerchiefs with their name and number on them.
Possibly a little embroidered slogan -
"When you think of what he could have meant to KU, please wipe your tears with this commemorative hanky"
@drgnslayr Your post is very heartfelt and I can see that you are sincere about it, but I just don't wholly agree. I think a guy with 2 1/2 - 3 years of ANY basketball is not ready for the pros. True, he's going to make a butt-load of money, but he would have (probably) been the premier player in all of college basketball next year.
Anyway, we could debate it till next year's OAD's come and go and we'll both be convinced that we're right. And we both are !
@dylans " I hope 5 years from now we all all trying to remember the two OAD's Bill recruited right before he went on a national title tear winning 3 of 5...I can dream. "
That would be sweet,indeed.
More likely we'll be saying, " I remember the two OAD's that got drafted #1 and #2 in the NBA and became the catalyst for a whole slew of OAD's coming in to lead us to 10 loss seasons. "
@MoonwalkMafia I don't know them personally. They seem like great kids. As others have said, I like them, but not the OAD idea.
It's here to stay though, we may as well embrace it.
@JayHawkFanToo Yes, I remember the '81 "Battle of New Orleans" game all too well. I'm still mad at Darnell Valentine for missing 15 layups (slight exaggeration) that day.....
The three Shockers you mentioned were really great players though!
First of all, thanks for letting me even mention this topic. It would have been taboo to speak of any other college / university on that other site.
Anyway, we discussed WSU a fair amount this season and I'd be interested to see what's on your minds.
Does Marshall stay? If not, what does that do to the program? Will they seek membership in another conference so they won't have to downplay the weakness of the Missouri Valley again. Or do they stay and dominate and hope for weak draws in the tournament? They won't be under the radar any more.
Or does anyone care one way or the other?
Thanks for your input!
@wissoxfan83 "Most fans if they'd admit it would say they're jealous of KU."
A story I like to tell:
Several years ago ( I don't remember exactly and I don't feel like looking it up ) I had tickets to Kansas vs Ohio State in Lawrence. If memory serves, both teams were pretty highly ranked. My wife couldn't make it, so I invited a guy (acquaintance, let's say) who happened to be an Ohio State fan. Big Ohio State fan. Obnoxious Ohio State fan. You get the idea.
Anyway, we make the 3 hour drive to Lawrence. He's all decked out in Ohio State garbage, head to toe. He KNOWS they are going to beat us on our home court. We get there early and once we get in we spend a lot of time looking around. You can smell the history. You can FEEL the history.
So we finally get to our seats and all the pre-game hoopla begins. By the time the game got started, he was practically pale.
He says: " I hate to admit this, but I have goosebumps! Ohio State doesn't have anything that can compare to this".
DUH.
Oh yeah. We won.
@drgnslayr That's funny. Almost every game this season, I found myself humming "Sweet Georgia Brown" while watching one of our games.
@HighEliteMajor If it makes you feel any better, I"m pretty sure Tharpe won't be mentioned in that group.
@truehawk93 I'm pretty sure that's what Calipari said, just before the second half started. Talking about Randle's first half play. I could be wrong....
@approxinfinity Just out of curiosity - who is this girl? Is it one of Kentucky's cheerleaders?
@Crimsonorblue22 Sorry - I only do the singing shows. I just couldn't care less about the dancing.....
OH! It's way past this old man's bedtime, but I wanted to take this opportunity to pat myself on the back this one time. I try not to say " I told you so " very often (mostly because I'm wrong a lot) but - I TOLD YOU SO.
Waaaay back in the very early part of the season, or maybe it was even before the season started (?) I made the statement that I believed the eventual NCAA Champion would be among the top 10 in free throw shooting.
UConn finished the season at number 5. Actually, that was before tonight's game, so they probably moved up a notch or two. 100% FT shooting in the championship game probably says a lot about your team and how well disciplined they are. (Just for comparison, KU checked in at number 135....) OK kids, enjoy your evening. Sweet dreams.
I was rooting for UConn (OK, I was rooting against Kentucky) and was relieved at the outcome, but I have to say this.
And I won't win any brownie points with you guys.
I've been a Calipari basher as long as I can remember. I've been a bandwagon basher. But I was pretty impressed with what I saw from Calipari tonight. How he handled himself, how his team played and how he talked with the media. I loved his answer at the end of the half as to why Randle was playing so poorly. He didn't get all defensive or smart alecky - he gave the right answer.
"He's 18 years old. He's nervous. That's what happens when you have talent and energy and aren't playing aggressively" (that last part was kind of paraphrased)
Same with after the game. He was calm, polite, and he gave proper answers to the questions he was asked. He wasn't whining. He wasn't blaming the refs. I thought he handled himself very well.
He was one heck of a lot less slimy than a few other coaches I can think of. YES, I will name names. Billy Tubbs. Jon Cheney (gives me shivers just thinking of him) Bob Huggins. Rat-Face (Duke's coach). Thad Motta (ewwww). The list goes on and on. By the way, these fellows may or may not actually be slimy, but that's my perception of them.
Anyway, I know I won't change any one's perception of him, but I have to say that at least for tonight - he changed my perception of him.
@joeloveshawks I really have no complaints about Bill (well, I do, but I'll address those in a sec...) and today I wouldn't trade him for anyone else.
My point was that Roy was a very good tournament coach. In his time at Kansas, he lost to a #7, a #8 and a #9. Those were considered BAD losses at the time. He also got beat by five #1 seeds. Self has lost to a #14, #13, #11, #10 and #9. He's only lost to a #1 seed once. Other than the 2008 team (objectively, we won that game on luck - we were down 9 with a minute and a half to go and made a long 3 pointer to send it to - OT. That's from memory, not wikipedia)
Self is obviously a great coach. He's lost, what?, 10 games at home in 11 years. We all know about "The Streak". Anybody that's calling for his head is, well, an idiot. But he does need to change some things. Or have better luck during the tournament.
@truehawk93 But, Ol Roy's won two NC's since he left KU, so what does that tell us? Was it his players? Was it the fans? (GASP!) Obviously he can coach so it wasn't him.
Or was it a little bit of luck, injuries, timing - all those things that go into whatever team wins the NC in a given year?
When Mario put up "The Shot" - did you think it was going in? I sure as heck didn't. I thought - Wait till next year. Like I've done 48 out of the last 50 years. I think if you look at the stats, Roy's teams fared considerably better than Self's teams in the tournament.
@drgnslayr That is a most excellent idea. I would hate to miss out on Kentucky getting beat.
Although UConn winning isn't great either...........
@JayHawkFanToo i "Favourite"ed your last post because it was a good point and a good post -
but mostly because I had to get your "Reputation" off of 666. Yikes......
I'm going "The Voice" from 7:00 - 9:00 pm.
Then, "About a Boy", followed up by "Growing up Fisher".
Screw This Game.
But I mean that in the nicest way possible.
@truehawk93 I definitely agree with the "soft" assessment. I saw NO spark in anyone until the game when Selden, Wiggins and Embiid all dove after a loose ball and Selden went into the press booth.
That fire lasted about three games if memory served me and then we went back into full zombie mode again.
I am not making this up - watch some of the games over again - we had a couple of players who never sweated !! That tells me we have one heck of a lack of hustle, or we have a lot of guys with hypohidrosis.
So, we do need to find players with that "fire", or someone needs to light said fire underneath their butts. That's on Self. If he's stricly an X's and O's kinda guy and is not comfortable motivating people (I don't know) then he needs to find one or more assistant coaches that can do that. Or hire some self-help guru. A hypnotist. Whatever it takes to get em going.
@JRyman I'm not a big bettor - mostly because I'm always wrong. I've tried the reverse bet thing, where I bet on the team that I think will lose so that somehow the team that I want to win will win. (I don't even know what I just said there.)
But mostly I just want tonight's game to be forfeited and neither one of them will win.
@HighEliteMajor Lol - I am!! I just told you I'm a poor loser. And we just lost ten times!!
I'm not a particularly good loser. In fact, it's been said that I'm a POOR loser. I take great pride in that.
However, the fact that Kansas doesn't win the National Championship every year is not enough to make me bail on them.
If we're going to base greatness on how many NC's a team has, then it's UCLA. Hands down. End of discussion. Next, as jaybate 1.0 would say.
Take a random poll of people across the country and ask them to choose the 5 greatest programs of all time. Here's the answer you'll get the majority of the time:
In no particular order: Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina and Indiana. Go ahead - take the poll.
Why? Because they have consistently been winners. Over a long, long period of time they have been known as winners. They win a lot of games. They win conference championships. They have history. They make movies about them. They send players to the NBA. Their names are synonymous with winning.
Yes, I want to win more National Championships. In my heart, 10 losses in a season is unacceptable. But, it's basketball. We attract many top athletes here and when things click, we are unstoppable. They didn't click this year. Do we send Bill Self packing? (as if we could). Probably not a great idea. He's won a few games. We could do worse than having Bill Self for our coach.
Take a few minutes and compare stats between Calipari and Self. On paper, they're the same person. Their records are practically identical. Self has lost one more tournament game than Calipari. They've both won one National Championship.
“Somewhere in the world there is a defeat for everyone. Some are destroyed by defeat, and some made small and mean by victory. Greatness lives in one who triumphs equally over defeat and victory.” John Steinbeck
@HighEliteMajor Nothing magical about getting beat by Bob Morriss in the NIT either.
Stuff happens. Like I said before, injury, luck (good or bad) whatever.
If you want to bathe in the majesty of Uconn or Kentucky, go right ahead.
I'm not taking any pills (unless they're ibuprofen. I've been working my butt off in the yard this weekend).
Does anyone remember when Indiana was the mecca of college basketball? How about St. John's? Temple? Notre Dame? The list goes on and on. There are a lot of great teams - great programs out there. They're not all going to win a national championship every year.
There's nothing magical about U-Conn or Kentucky. They have great players. They have great coaches. Their schedule worked to their benefit. They didn't have injuries to key players at the wrong time. They didn't have stupid turnovers at the wrong time. They made key free throws. They had a lucky shot or two go down. The stars lined up - whatever terminology you want to use.
Bottom line is - if your criteria of what makes a good team, a team worthy of spending your time, energy, money and stresses on is winning a national championship - GO. Root for U-Conn or Kentucky tomorrow. Root for Florida, North Carolina or Duke. Hell - jump on the Wichita State bandwagon, they're a popular media choice right now. ** And prepare to be disappointed **
Your team ain't going to win every year.
I've been a KU fan for 50 years and I'll be one if lose 25 games next year. I'll be a fan if we have Bruce Weber for our coach. I'll be a fan when we win our 11th straight Conference Championship, or our 30th. I'll be a fan when we recruit OAD's and I'll be a fan when they score 41 points a game and I'll be a fan when they score 4 points a game.
If you're gonna be a fan - be a fan. Otherwise go be someone else's "fan".
" Whatever I say will be wrong, but my gut feeling is he stays. Danny is a loyal guy and I think he will stay for a few more years."
What I meant by that is - HE'S GONE.
@wissoxfan83 " I was in the line for championship T-shirts, which I still have by the way, but they've shrunk."
A lot of my jeans have shrunk in the past few years as well.
@JRyman Wisconsin is the only team in the FF that doesn't make me want to puke.
Kentucky - puke.
Florida - puke.
UCONN - puke.
If i'm being honest, I didn't even know UCONN was in the tournament at all until I saw the Final Four pairings. They are as relevant to me as Missouri. Not as hated, just as relevant.
@RockChalkinTexas My dad has lived in Austin (Round Rock) for about 30 years. I lived there for one year in 1978 and then moved to Houston for 9 years.
I miss Texas .....:(
Austin is such a fun town (except for the #$%^&^*^ traffic!). I've spent a lot of time in Nashville and the two towns are very similar to me. Good food, good music, good fun. And pretty women.
Anyway - as long as we're on the music theme - a few years ago when my son went off to college he told me he was going to a concert in Kansas City. I asked who he was going to see and he told me " BUCKETHEAD ". When I quit laughing, I told him it was his money - knock yourself out. Have any of you guys/gals heard Buckethead?? Holy Smokes - the dude is a guitar savant - really, really good!
So, I recommend "Buckethead" and "That One Guy" as some outside the box, very good entertainment and cool music.
INDEED
Bring the Beatdown you Bad-Boy Badgers!
@globaljaybird Everyone who is on kubuckets is automatically in if they want in! That shows a level of " cool " that trumps any of the other qualifications.
I AM kinda surprised you're not an Eagle Scout though......
Whatever I say will be wrong, but my gut feeling is he stays. Danny is a loyal guy and I think he will stay for a few more years.
FINE.
I admit it. It was a stupid idea. A stupid fan club. For grown men (and women).
I'll call Samantha and Olivia immediately and tell them to forget about it.
@JayhawkRock78 Well............I don't have a cell phone.....;)
@JayhawkRock78 Lol - yes! If you only meet one, you're doing better than most of the world!!
Here's two quotes from MR Alexander that make me actually want to start a fan club:
"I wouldn't mind staying two years," Alexander told the Tribune. "Stay and get better. I've been talking to my parents about it. Some guys leave and they aren't ready. They rush in and they're rushed out. I just want to take my time."
"I talk to 'JoJo' sometimes," Alexander told the paper. "He said he hasn't made up his mind. I told him to do what's best for him. Hopefully, he stays.I think nobody could stop us next year if he does." (bold added for effect)
In my book, a 5-star guy like Alexander who says he will (ok, might) stay for 2 years - that's the same as being an Eagle Scout, staying pure until marriage and not having a cell phone!!
@drgnslayr Remember when Larry left Lawrence?
I was bummed - especially after his last season! But it was expected, I think we all knew that the gypsy wasn't going to camp here forever. I always liked him though - such a classy guy and he always had (has) a soft spot in his heart for KU.
@RockChalkinTexas You are absolutely right - he had a LOT of them!!
(wish he were here for 2-3 more years, think how many he'd have then!)
Sorry - I have a hard time letting things go! lol
@Crimsonorblue22 I hope I've not mis-communicated my feelings about Wiggins. He is a great kid. He is one heck of a ball player. I know I've bagged on the OAD system a lot, but I'm pretty sure I've never bagged on him (or any other individual OAD).
He was statistically the best, most productive freshman in the history of KU Basketball. That's a mouthful right there.
I just don't understand how he can have all these accolades and not be a FIRST team All American.
@RockChalkinTexas Please help me understand this - how can Wiggy be projected as the number 1 - 3 NBA draft pick and only be rated Second team All American?
@icthawkfan316 I'm available.
I'm a little slower than the average college athlete.
But I don't own a cell phone.