@JRyman LOL - no, you're right!!
nuleafjhawk
5999 posts
It appears that about every time I open my mouth something stupid comes out. A while back I made the argument that our strength of schedule was part of our undoing. Maybe I was wrong. Again.
Final Four teams SOS -
Wisconsin - #2
Kentucky - #3
Florida - #11
UCONN - #30
I guess I'll keep my ideas to myself. Probably.
@JayHawkFanToo Thanks for your advice. It seems genuine to me and I appreciate it very much.
I'm not a negative person - really !! I love KU sports (ok, mostly basketball) and it really hurts me when we lose. And I honestly was just intrigued by the numbers. Why did Williams' teams fare so much better in the tournament (other than the Championship, which I am NOT downplaying) than Self's?
No concerns here. I've been a Jayhawk fan for 50 years and will be until the day I die. I do love Self, I just wish we consistently did better in the tournament!
RCJH !!
@JayHawkFanToo I don't know man, losing to a 14, 13, 11, 10, and 9 seed and getting bounced out in your first game is kind of a big deal no matter what the calendar year says.
I'm focusing on the negatives because those are the things that can and should be fixed.
" Now, I will say that I used to agree with @nuleafjhawk 100% about senior experience being the be-all-end-all in the tournament....until last year. We had the experience to go far, starting 4 seniors. But we got upset early, and that rocked my presumption of experience counting for so much."
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I'd hoped that everyone had forgotten how much I mouthed off about senior leadership all year long!!
I still think that generally a more experienced team is better, but I'm going to hop on board with your point guard leadership as the key that starts the engine.
Come on Bill, get us a D-1, BIG TIME Point Guard!!!
@wissoxfan83 I'd call him a 9.5.
A perfect 10 if he had stayed a while.
I'm trying to make myself completely bonkers so I started looking at some stats comparing Self's NCAA tournament success(?) with that of his predecessor. There's no other reason than that I'm totally bored.
In Roy's time here, we lost to an 7 seed once, an 8 seed once and a 9 seed once. We lost to a #1 seed 5 times, a 2 seed once, a 3 seed once and a 4 seed three times.
We went to the Final Four twice, to the Championship game twice. We bowed out in the Elite Eight once, the Sweet Sixteen four times. We stumbled in the second round twice and never once lost an opening game.
So far, in the BS era (no pun intended), we have lost to a 14 seed once, a 13 seed once, an 11 seed once, a 10 seed once, and a 9 seed once. We have lost to a 4 seed once, a 3 seed once, a 2 seed twice and a 1 seed one time.
We've gone to the Final Four twice, to the Championship game twice. We've bowed out in the Elite Eight three times, and the Sweet Sixteen twice. We've stumbled in the second round twice and fallen flat on our faces twice in the opening game.
And - oh yeah, we have that National Championship.
I'm not implying anything, I just think it's strange that we've lost to so many lower seeded teams in the past 11 years.
TO BE OVER.
I'll be rooting (if you can call it that....) for the Badgers out of respect for wissoxfan83, but oh my goodness - Kentucky, Florida and UCONN? Really?
At the beginning of the season, if I could have chosen 3 teams that I would NOT want to be in the Final Four - there ya go.
As if I needed another reminder that I'm not the smartest guy in the world, you have to go and send a whole freaking starting lineup of freshmen to the Final Four.
I said it couldn't be done. Again.
Maybe it's not the players......
Before y'all ( I lived in Houston for almost 10 years, I'm comfortable saying " y'all " ) start bashing - you know I love Bill Self, I'm just not happy. If anyone can take freshmen to the FF, it should be Self.
@JayHawkFanToo I don't need to see it. I saw enough of nasty Naadir on the court this season.
@Crimsonorblue22 I skimmed it a little, but I saw a comparison to Calipari and thought they were saying that because of Wiggins and others' anticipated draft status that other high profile (OAD's) would be more interested in Kansas.
@Crimsonorblue22 I don't know. I'm personally not that stoked about getting a bunch more OAD's in here for 10 loss seasons.
I'm weird I guess.
My own personal hangover gets worse each day.
Immediately after the so called game, I was like, " Oh well, there's loss number ten. Honey, let's go get some Mexican food. "
But the more I think about it, and the more we all talk about it, the pissier I get.
Come on FOOTBALL !!
I'd like to see Self recruit kids that bleed Crimson and Blue, or can learn very early to bleed that way.
I'd like to see kids that come to the gym early and are forced by the janitors to leave at night.
I'd like to see these players bust their asses all game every game and then cry like little girls after the very few games they lose that season.
I want every loss to hurt the players and coaches as much as it hurts US.
@HighEliteMajor I did not enjoy the ride right along with you. We talked about this in another thread, but even though we lost to a 10 seed ( I always love saying that.....) it was not earth-shattering, unexpected or life changing. It was sigh an end to a pretty uneventful season, by Kansas standards.
In my opinion, Embiid's injury had little bearing on our outcome. We might have beaten Stanford, but we were't going to be wearing any rings or holding up any trophies at the end of this season. We never did jell as a team. We were too young and had NO consistent guard play.
I hope the 5 million dollar man figures it out by next season. I'm not down on Self, but when you're a Kansas fan, losing at any level just sucks.
" But all I wanted was to rule the Universe...."
Dr. Zachary Smith
Lost in Space
(TV show, not the movie)
@JayHawkFanToo What you say is true. But nobody cares. Well, no players care. They just want someone to show them the money.
If Andrew Wiggins would have said, " I'm coming to Kansas and I'm staying 4 years. I"m going to enjoy my college experience, I'm going to learn how to actually play this game and I'm going to have fun and hopefully win a NC or two" - I'd be out in front of the Fieldhouse right now sculpting another statue to go beside Phog Allen. And Phog would have his arm around Andrew. Or possibly bowing down to him.
" The one this year doesn't even come close to a couple of the others as far as disappointments to me. "
I AGONIZED over Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, VCU and most recently Michigan (possibly the worst meltdown I've ever witnessed?).
Stanford was practically a relief. It was expected. I felt dang lucky to get by ....Eastern Kentucky (there's something a KU fan should never have to say). This year we had a roster full of talent. But it was not a good team.
@justanotherfan Your signature should be hanging in the Kansas locker room.
Work for success, not for praise.
@JayHawkFanToo I'll be rooting for them too. I have no ties whatsoever ( other than you! ), but I'm impressed with them. They hustle like crazy and all seem to have their heads on straight. I'm also intrigued with the whole coaching brothers scenario too.
I hope they hang in there!
@JayHawkFanToo lol - I lost track a long time ago. It's Friday, we're out of the tournament, I'm bored and sleepy at work and I shouldn't be responding to any of this stuff.
But I'm having fun. Sorry if I'm running my fingernails down the blackboard today.
@JayHawkFanToo Didn't Kentucky get pasted by Bobby Morris in the NIT the previous year?
One other thing I'd add to Florida's Formula.
Senior
Senior
Senior
Senior
Sophomore
@justanotherfan I know it sounds stupid for some of us to say that we don't want to recruit OAD's. It sounds stupid to me. But I don't.
Here's why.
One of the (many) things I love about Kansas Basketball is the tradition. The stories. The history. I want players here that are into that as well. I want them to soak up Allen Fieldhouse. And Lawrence, Ks. Even though I don't live in Lawrence, I consider myself to be one of " US ". I live and breathe Kansas basketball first, but I also love football.
I don't just want players who are here because they know we are a high profile school that is going to get them a lot of press. I'm not talking specifically about AW now, just the OAD personality in general.
I don't see a OAD ever leading us to a National Championship. Look at the type of teams that Self ALWAYS puts together. Calipari has a much greater chance of utilizing a OAD type to Kentucky's advantage because of the style of ball that they play. And he doesn't care about Kentucky's overall W/L record anyway. He's there for his own personal fame and fortune. So dumping 4-6 guys into the league every year is to his personal advantage.
Anyway, I know I'm swimming upstream, but if it were up to me, I'd seek diligently for kids that would be here 3-4 years. I still think very good experienced players trump freshmen ( as a team ) every time.
@Crimsonorblue22 Really?
Wait - are you talking physical or mental toughness? I think the guy goes all out mentally - I want him on the court, I NEED him on that court.....
He could add a little more beef to his frame, but I think he is very determined and gives it his all.
@JayhawkRock78 Lol - I don't know about transitive laws and all that, but I did watch Dayton rebound, run, pass, shoot and attack the basket.
I respect you and your math teacher hall of fame coach, but I'll stick with Dayton kicking our fannies had we played them last night!
@bskeet From what I've seen of the game we can be thankful that we didn't beat Stanford. Dayton looks like they would have beat us by 30. Or more.
@Wigs2 Wilt was a freak of nature. There will never be another Wilt.
Alcindor's team - sophomore's. Sophomore's who had already practiced with the team for one full year before their sophomore seasons. Close to 50 years ago. When if you had a Lew Alcindor - it didn't make any difference who else you had on your team, you were going to win.
I'll take very good Jr's and Sr's any day over uber talented freshmen.
@dylans That's why I sucked in school. I only read what I want to see!
@dylans I'm gonna respectfully disagree with your statement about "putting the best talent on the floor is what wins National Championships."
I believe that having experienced talent wins them.
It will be interesting to see in a couple of weeks who is holding up that trophy and if their starting lineup is heavy with FR/SO or JR/SR talent.
@Crimsonorblue22 Lol - good memory!!
I'm as ready for the NBA as Embiid is. I'm 6'1, 225#, HATE to lose.
I'm 55 and my back is strong.
Where do I sign?
@globaljaybird Everyone here knows you're a stand-up guy and would not have intentionally posted something untrue.
If he stays or if he goes, it has no bearing on your credibility with us!
@wissoxfan83 I tweeted once, but I got something from my doctor to take care of it.
" If Tharpe is Self's pick for pg next year...it's going to be another long year"
Or, in terms of the actual number of basketball games, another short year.
@wissoxfan83 If this is true - buh-bye.
How desperate are we for a point guard?
Very
This is KANSAS. We should have a top notch point guard every year.
You can't navigate a boat without a captain. Or if you do, I don't want to be on that boat.
@Blown When you say that Mason is the opposite of Frankamp, do you mean that he had 140 turnovers in 0 minutes?
Just kidding...
@drgnslayr I like to think of myself as kind and thoughtful, so I would be happy to assist Cindy with any help she may need while Bill's in Thailand.
I would trade him in a heartbeat -
for the Bill Self that recruits 3 and 4 year kids.
Or - one and done's and then uses his charm to keep them here for 3 or 4 years !!
@icthawkfan316 "I just don't trust Bill to pull the plug on him like he needs to."
I emphasized the word " needs " because I think that is key.
Sometimes stubborn is to prove a point. Most of the time stubborn hurts the team. Bill Self is a great coach. But he needs to recognize when he's wrong and get over it. We're all wrong from time to time.
When I'm wrong it generally doesn't disappoint hundreds of thousands of people across the country and world.
@bskeet My only solace is that all of my co-workers are K-State fans (plus a couple of new bandwagon Shockers fans) - so nobody here can give me any grief.
It's quiet at work this week!
@approxinfinity - I am also very grateful that you put so much time and effort into this site. It sounds stupid, but this is one thing I really look forward to every day (yes, I know that's sad - but true!) and very early on I thought very briefly about going back to " you know where " but I just couldn't do it. Too negative over there.
This has been, and I hope will continue to be a mostly positive, always entertaining and informative site and I really, really (!) appreciate it.
Thanks to your family and spend MUCHO time with them this summer.
Someone asked a while back if we would trade our streak of conference championships for a National Championship.
At the time, I said no. Because I thought we were better than we really were. Right now, I'd trade "the streak" for a trip to the Elite Eight. Maybe even Sweet Sixteen.
I personally get sick to my stomach thinking of some of the powerhouse teams we've had (I'm not counting this year's team as powerhouse - just full of raw talent that never quite "jelled" ) that have lost to MUCH lower seeded teams. I'm not going to name names, you all know them.
Anyway - when you lose to a team like that in 2005, hey - it can happen to anyone once. When you lose on a fairly regular basis to teams that you should pound like a sixteen penny nail - what does it say to the rest of the basketball world?
I'm genuinely interested in you guys' opinions. Thanks!
@Crimsonorblue22 Respectfully disagree.
He's a helluva singer, but he's in his 80's and doesn't know any more about basketball than I do. (But I know enough that we should have played Frankamp more this year)
Yes, I'm kidding.
@wissoxfan83 I'll play along.
Maybe we lost because, well, we lost 9 other times so maybe we aren't really that good.
(We lost nine other times becuase of Bill Self's stubbornness, and because we had a whole bunch of freshmen on the roster, and we didn't have a valid point guard, and we lost our starting center and because Wiggins isn't as good as advertised, nor is Selden. I think Perry is however. )
@DanR "The rest of the players rarely seemed to enjoy themselves."
That about sums it up for me. And it was a very forgettable season.
I begrudgingly watched the Wichita State game. If we had played with half the energy and enthusiasm that they had, we would have won every game by 25.
@KansasComet Respectfully disagree.
The better TEAM definitely won. The team with the most talent and deer in the headlights look did not win.
@drgnslayr That's the first time I've smiled in four hours. Thanks man.