🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Final 3: Kansas, Indiana, Vanderbilt. If Vick goes pro, I’ve heard he’s KU’s to lose.

@FarmerJayhawk not what I'm hearing - - I've heard Indiana has really gotten solid and now overwhelming to land him - -I feel too that's where he ends up - - Loves his in state school. - -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

jayballer54 said:

@FarmerJayhawk not what I'm hearing - - I've heard Indiana has really gotten solid and now overwhelming to land him - -I feel too that's where he ends up - - Loves his in state school. - -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Are you contacting Indiana homers on twitter dot com?

You've heard Langford's dad repeat the term business decision right? If Indiana is dog poo, that's bad for business. :coffee:

Pretty sure @FarmerJayhawk is right and it hinges on Vick. I'd rather have a SR Vick but either is a good option!

@BShark Nope not at all. - -just sit back and watch. - -They knocked it out of the park on his in home visit, - -playing close to him is also playing a role - -even when Louisville was the one lot closer for him.

Listen to what I tell ya - -was right on McCormack when some wondering where I was coming from. - - -Had my boy Devon from the word go - even though was wondering more at the last. - -Romeo not landing here as much as I'd like - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

jayballer54 said:

@BShark Nope not at all. - -just sit back and watch. - -They knocked it out of the park on his in home visit, - -playing close to him is also playing a role - -even when Louisville was the one lot closer for him.

Listen to what I tell ya - -was right on McCormack when some wondering where I was coming from. - - -Had my boy Devon from the word go - even though was wondering more at the last. - -Romeo not landing here as much as I'd like - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

He would have already announced for Louisville if not for the scandal.

Also...I was beating the McCormack drum as loud as anyone. I can't remember who but someone else was citing the crystal ball as a reason KU wasn't really in it lol. I know it wasn't you though bud.

@BShark Yes I do know that Langford would be all nicely wrapped up for Louisville if not for the scandal. - - - they are closer to Indiana then us - -he still wanting to play closer to home - -really likes Archie - -I mean sure it could happen - -but for sure not holding my breath. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

If he wasn't waiting to see how things shake out with KU's roster, why not sign with Indiana early?

@BShark BINGO

I think it’s evident Kansas is his first choice and Indiana is second. With a return by Vick and a dog shit season by Indiana I don’t think it’s out of the question he signs with Vandy.

SkinnyKansasDude said:

@BShark BINGO

I think it’s evident Kansas is his first choice and Indiana is second. With a return by Vick and a dog shit season by Indiana I don’t think it’s out of the question he signs with Vandy.

I could see it. If they add Shittu, Garland and Romeo, well shoot, UK better watch out even.

Vick looks really good! NBA scouts were bragging on him at that philly camp.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Vick looks really good! NBA scouts were bragging on him at that philly camp.

He is probably the best long term NBA player on the current KU team. Really good elevation on his shot. Can shoot and has tools to defend.

Vick has every intangible to play in the nba. He athletic, long, can shoot and defend. I’m almost certain that the coaching staff has been telling Zion that Billy is a one and done player they are also telling Grimes and Langford that Vick is nba bound as well.

@SkinnyKansasDude They definitely told McCormack that Billy is OAD. It's easier to convince Grimes that Newman and Vick are gone. Really looks like Langford wants to be more sure.

@BShark

Vick is the classic 3 and D wing in the current NBA. He can guard any position on the perimeter, can handle the ball a little bit and can shoot it. If he gets a bit better from the corners, he has a 12 year NBA career waiting for him, maybe not as a starter, but certainly in the league as a rotation player.

Best case scenario, he turns into a Tony Snell/Danny Green type of player. Worst case he ends up inconsistent on both ends and washes out of the league in three or four years.

“Just their guards and the way coach Self uses their guards,” Langford, a 6-5 guard from New Albany, Indiana, said of KU on Zagsblog.com. “I feel like I also fit well in their system and the way he gets his guards ready for the NBA.”

As expected, Garland to Vandy. Only helps KU with Langford.

FarmerJayhawk said:

As expected, Garland to Vandy. Only helps KU with Langford.

Already replied with this to you elsewhere but Romeo is a huge want for me. Pretty much can't miss at the college level.

A prototypical Self wing too. Can score at all levels and has the tools to defend. Great option if Vick goes pro.

This doesn't help Vandy? Selling Langford with Garland? Wasn't that Indiana's pitch as well.

A lot of wing/perimeter players at Vandy. I counted at least 7.

If we know for sure one of our perimeter players leaves that should give KU the edge in the spring.

It's also nice knowing that spring recruiting for once isn't a mad scramble. It's looking like this is working out perfectly for the staff

Vandy is full on scholly's with Garland aboard as well

BeddieKU23 said:

Vandy is full on scholly's with Garland aboard as well

lol

Edit: They are hot and heavy with Shittu too. Looks like axe sharpening time!

@BShark

Of course schools have a way or working things if they want Shittu and Langford but they have a full deck at the moment

Indiana has 1 opening as far as I can tell. I thought they were full but I don't see a guard on their roster that was supposed to be a Sr next sesason

@BeddieKU23 Texas is already one over btw. 12 players currently. Jones and Bamba out. 4 in ALREADY.

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 Texas is already one over btw. 12 players currently. Jones and Bamba out. 4 in ALREADY.

Yup, one over unless the transfer doesn't stick. But he was a highly coveted one. I can see Jacob Young being a casualty at UT. That's about as much sense as I could make out of their situation

BeddieKU23 said:

This doesn't help Vandy? Selling Langford with Garland? Wasn't that Indiana's pitch as well.

A lot of wing/perimeter players at Vandy. I counted at least 7.

If we know for sure one of our perimeter players leaves that should give KU the edge in the spring.

Sure seems like KU is in a great spot here. I've said it before and I'll say it again I love hearing "business decision" from the dad.

BeddieKU23 said:

It's also nice knowing that spring recruiting for once isn't a mad scramble. It's looking like this is working out perfectly for the staff

In part because of the mad scramble last year.

@BShark

I agree that we are in a good spot. I think we've been recruiting him a lot longer then Indiana's new staff and Vandy. So that could also play a factor.

If its business decision he's a Hawk. For Romeo waiting until spring after the Louisville fiasco is the best business decision. That way he knows who exactly is leaving

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

I agree that we are in a good spot. I think we've been recruiting him a lot longer then Indiana's new staff and Vandy. So that could also play a factor.

If its business decision he's a Hawk. For Romeo waiting until spring after the Louisville fiasco is the best business decision. That way he knows who exactly is leaving

Huge plus that he is waiting. An early emotional decision would have been IU imo.

Plus it gives him time to fully see the dumpster + 5 alarm tire fire that IU is. The kid, like any kid, wants to win.

Also Vanderbilt is a Nike school.

We're in a great spot if Vick goes pro. I think if it was always IU or they were the clear leader, there would've been more to him signing early.

All good points. We did Matt's job for him!

Romeo definitely adds the shooting we will need for next year. Grimes & Langford is a nice 1-2 punch for perimeter shots. Both can fill it up off the bounce or set shot

Think Garrett has any impact? Next year the kid is going to start.. Hopefully not too much of an impact

BeddieKU23 said:

Think Garrett has any impact? Next year the kid is going to start.. Hopefully not too much of an impact

Nope. He's going to be a great player, but no way he starts over Langford. He can provide terrific depth 1-3 though.

Yeah, you give Romeo the starting spot because Garrett seems like the kid that just dgaf and will eat up minutes off the bench. Dotson, Grimes and Romeo start, but Garrett and Moore both get respectable minutes.

FarmerJayhawk said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Think Garrett has any impact? Next year the kid is going to start.. Hopefully not too much of an impact

Nope. He's going to be a great player, but no way he starts over Langford. He can provide terrific depth 1-3 though.

That's awful high praise for a HS kid. Garrett has already started at KU which is why I bring it up. Of course we'll see where Marcus is at the end of this year but I think he's already sped up his timeline as far as potentially starting at KU.

I think at this point it would be a mistake to not give Marcus his due after this season. HS rankings aside Garrett has come more prepared then 95% of freshman Self has gotten in his time. Of course I'm basing this on what we've seen to date. Imagine how much better he'll get in an off-season as well

BShark said:

Yeah, you give Romeo the starting spot because Garrett seems like the kid that just dgaf and will eat up minutes off the bench. Dotson, Grimes and Romeo start, but Garrett and Moore both get respectable minutes.

Good point about the type of character Marcus has. Still I'm sure being the kid he is he's going to make it very difficult for Self to play someone over him.

BeddieKU23 said:

I think at this point it would be a mistake to not give Marcus his due after this season. HS rankings aside Garrett has come more prepared then 95% of freshman Self has gotten in his time. Of course I'm basing this on what we've seen to date. Imagine how much better he'll get in an off-season as well

Oh no doubt. I've been on the Garrett hype train for a long time. https://throughthephog.com/2016/08/02/pg-marcus-garrett-commits-kansas/ ↗

From what I've seen of Romeo, he's the most gifted scorer in the class. Fits perfectly next to Dotson and Grimes. Garrett will be a glue guy/stopper.

FarmerJayhawk said:

BeddieKU23 said:

I think at this point it would be a mistake to not give Marcus his due after this season. HS rankings aside Garrett has come more prepared then 95% of freshman Self has gotten in his time. Of course I'm basing this on what we've seen to date. Imagine how much better he'll get in an off-season as well

Oh no doubt. I've been on the Garrett hype train for a long time. https://throughthephog.com/2016/08/02/pg-marcus-garrett-commits-kansas/ ↗

From what I've seen of Romeo, he's the most gifted scorer in the class. Fits perfectly next to Dotson and Grimes. Garrett will be a glue guy/stopper.

No questioning Romeo's skills. He's got game.

Starting 3 freshman in the back-court. We know Self better then that. Fun problem to have though if he has that type of talent putting on a KU jersey

BeddieKU23 said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

BeddieKU23 said:

I think at this point it would be a mistake to not give Marcus his due after this season. HS rankings aside Garrett has come more prepared then 95% of freshman Self has gotten in his time. Of course I'm basing this on what we've seen to date. Imagine how much better he'll get in an off-season as well

Oh no doubt. I've been on the Garrett hype train for a long time. https://throughthephog.com/2016/08/02/pg-marcus-garrett-commits-kansas/ ↗

From what I've seen of Romeo, he's the most gifted scorer in the class. Fits perfectly next to Dotson and Grimes. Garrett will be a glue guy/stopper.

No questioning Romeo's skills. He's got game.

Starting 3 freshman in the back-court. We know Self better then that. Fun problem to have though if he has that type of talent putting on a KU jersey

Right. Grimes or Langford may not start right away, but they will eventually. But I don't think we end up with him because Vick will come back.

@FarmerJayhawk That's the one thing I've read & heard about Romeo , a very gifted Scorer. - The knock that I've heard that sometimes things come TO EASY for him - -has a tendency to slack off sometimes because of that -- loses focus. I have a feeling Coach could get that corrected real quick. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Definitely. He does have a tendency to just glide through some games. But he absolutely has the tools to be a great wing defender. Very good athlete and long (6'10 wingspan). Self would be perfect for him. His outside shot can be more consistent too. Good thing KU's staff is probably the best at developing shooters.

Garland Picks Vanderbilt, does it change Langford's choice?

JayHawkFanToo said:

Garland Picks Vanderbilt, does it change Langford's choice?

I think it could for sure. - -I had read & heard that Indiana was putting their eggs into the basket hoping to land Langford and Garland together. - -Somewhere I thought it had been said you know Langford wanting to play around/with other 5 star/ upper talent.

Well with Garland going to Vanderbilt, kind of shoots that theory right square in the ass. My 1st thought would be that with Garland going to Vanderbilt that would have to increase KU'S chances I would think. Unless Langford decides to go to Vanderbilt. - - Wasn't Vanderbilt one of his final 3 schools? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Read off another KU site, a poster says he lives in the town where Romeo plays his High School ball, and the talk around there from people is that Vanderbilt is now a heavy lean for him - -possibly because of Garland & Shittu - -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I wouldn't read too much into anything Langford until later. This one will go on for awhile.

Got a CB pick for Langford to KU yesterday by some Louisville Insider guy. There is likely still a while before he decides but nice to see considering all the smoke lately on the CB for him has been for Vandy.

RockkChalkk said:

Got a CB pick for Langford to KU yesterday by some Louisville Insider guy. There is likely still a while before he decides but nice to see considering all the smoke lately on the CB for him has been for Vandy.

Same day Jerry Meyer talks for sure about how Vanderbilt is trending for Romeo - -7-8 CB's going to Vanderbilt.

Have some time before Spring -gives us a chance to level the field some - -might be pretty hard with his buddy Garland going to Vandy and now The other one going can't spell the name so not going to try. - -With those two at Vandy you know they gonna push him hard. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think Langford may wait until very late as well to pick. There's a lot of things to sort out. If Vick is back, even with KU playing 4 guards, he is in a very crowded backcourt. Granted, he'd be one of the most talented guys, but it would be a crowd.

That said, if Vick keeps playing like this, he's gone anyway, and Langford would be a very nice addition. He's a really pure shooter that should be able to play both ends. He would pair very nicely with Dotson and Grimes, two talented slashers.

justanotherfan said:

He's a really pure shooter that should be able to play both ends. He would pair very nicely with Dotson and Grimes, two talented slashers.

Agree! I think if Vick leaves and KU misses on Langford adding a good perimeter shooter becomes a big priority. Grimes is an okay shooter. We already know Garrett is rough around the edges there, and so is Dotson. Moore is the only plus shooter and he was 35% his first year at Cal. Maybe a grad transfer would be the best option compared to a HS recruit that can shoot but lacks a bunch in other areas. However a grad transfer might be a tough sell with Dotson, Grimes, Garrett, Moore and Cunliffe all on the roster. I'm not a huge fan of Cunliffe but when he is your 5th guard that's preeeeetty decent.

Man now that I think about it we have been insanely spoiled with good three point shooters lately.

@BShark

I will take senior Vick over any OAD including Langford.

@JayHawkFanToo I would too but he isn't coming back if he keeps playing at his current level. However we also haven't really played anyone but UK yet...

@BShark Hmm .. do we really need another shooter? Or are going back to the hi/lo next season? Dotson, Grimes, Garrett, Cunliffe, Moore. Of course, I'd take a shooter any time. But something tells me this team isn't going to shoot 27 three pointers in a game once next season, let alone average 27 per game as they do this season.

I think we go conventional next season, perhaps the 18-19 threes per game at the most. If Vick stays, that might change a bit. But I don't see a big time shooter in the bunch next season minus Vick.

You're statement --"Man now that I think about it we have been insanely spoiled with good three point shooters lately" -- is right on point.

@JayHawkFanToo How about this … I wouldn't trade Vick for any player we could have next season. Vick could be conference POY and an all american.

I agree the philosophy will change back a bit due to roster construction but I also still think ideally you add another shooter. Might not be possible though, we're going to be pretty loaded.

Vick is #19 in the most recent NBADRAFT.net Mock draft.

I would put very little stock into NBAdraft.net but Vick is certainly playing at a level that could see him land somewhere in the first round if he kept it up

@BeddieKU23 Well since Draftexpress was basically bought by ESPN and turned into an Insider, that's what we get.

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Well since Draftexpress was basically bought by ESPN and turned into an Insider, that's what we get.

Boooo ESPN.

Draftexpress Jayhawks:

Devonte’ 44

Svi 54

Vick 61

Newman 92

No Preston or Azubuike

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Well since Draftexpress was basically bought by ESPN and turned into an Insider, that's what we get.

Yup Givony works for ESPN these days.

If Vick goes 19 this year, boy has he improved

@Kcmatt7 @BeddieKU23

Way to early to tell how it will turn out. 5 Duke players in the first round including 4 in the top 16 and 3 lottery pick, UK 2 in first round and only 1 lottery pick...this is a switch and probably does not help the squid with his narrative.

Vick is first round but Svi, Devonte and Billy are second round but could play themselves into the first round, same with Malik and Doke that are not listed.

@JayHawkFanToo

Of course its still way early. I was simply pointing out I don't put much stock into the site. If Vick is good enough by seasons end to end up in the first round that's great for everyone involved.

In my opinion ESPN probably has him ranked appropriately at the moment but he has the chance to move up the most of any hawk. If he averages 16 a game on 50% shooting from 3 he's going to get a ton of press going forward. He's improved a good deal from last season and I'm anxious to see if he continues to shoot the ball, rebound and pass the ball at the level he's currently at.

@JayHawkFanToo Didn't say it was done. I just am pointing it out on the Langford thread because it is relevant information to the discussion.

@BeddieKU23 @BShark

I know, we are on the same page. At this point several players like Doke are flying well under the radar and just beginning to get noticed and others still living off their HS ranking. The final list will be quite different.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@BeddieKU23 @BShark

I know, we are on the same page. At this point several players like Doke are flying well under the radar and just beginning to get noticed and others still living off their HS ranking. The final list will be quite different.

Definitely.

Doke is a case where it might take him having a dominant Big-12 or NCAA tournament to move the needle with him.

Dok’s got no stroke. That’s what’s holding him back. He’d be a top 5 pick if he could knock down a mid-range jumper, top 2 if he could hit a three.

dylans said:

Dok’s got no stroke. That’s what’s holding him back. He’d be a top 5 pick if he could knock down a mid-range jumper, top 2 if he could hit a three.

Ding ding. Pretty much

Doke will go in the lottery if goes just based off of size alone. Bam for UK was very similar last year and no made it.

@kjayhawks

At this point Doke is not a lotto pick considering that he is not even listed in most mock drafts. Other than maybe a Euro player that jumped into the draft late, I cannot think of a player that went from unlisted, at this stage, to lottery pick. He will need a big season to get into the draft and a huge one to be a first round pick. I see Vick and Graham and even Svi and of course Preston with a better chance than Doke...but I could be wrong.

@JayHawkFanToo Agree - not close to a lottery pick at this point. Doke still has a lot to work on at this point. Who could he guard in the NBA? Who could he get his own shot against? There are relatively few traditional 5s in the league now, and all are much more skilled. Doke is big and can take up a lot of room, but he isn't quick, doesn't have much elevation, can't pass in or out of the paint, and is a lousy FT shooter. His game has to evolve quite a bit if he wants to sniff the lottery...

I could be wrong but Diallo got picked, not in the lottery but early second round. Just looking at some mock drafts. Vick is top 20pick on 2 with Svi and DTG going mid second round. Svi is late first round on a few. You would assume Self expects Vick to leave with having Garett already to go with transfer Charlie Moore and Dotson, Grimes. That and recruiting Langford.

@kjayhawks

Unfortunately Doke plays a position/style that is quickly disappearing in the NBA and his athleticism is limited. Diallo has superior athleticism and plays a position in demand, particularly if you can shoot or develop a shot from the outside.

Vick could go in the first round because he fits a very clear role in today's NBA.

Point out a team that doesn't need an extra wing that can handle the ball, shoot the three, guard multiple positions and be a secondary rebounder in smaller lineups? With the way the NBA is currently working, literally every team needs a guy like that. Vick won't necessarily be a star, but every playoff team needs a guy with his skillset, both as a starter and also coming off the bench. Basically, every team needs two or three LaGerald Vick type players.

Once the lottery picks are off the board, teams will covet wings that are athletic, can shoot, and can guard multiple spots. That's Vick.

@justanotherfan

Sounds about right.

@justanotherfan pretty good points. - -ROC CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@BeddieKU23 and @jayballer54

Another point I forgot to mention is that Vick is already used to being a reserve and being a role player. He's not a guy that has to convert from being a star player that gets tons of shots every night to a role player that may not get any shots for a whole quarter at a time in the NBA. Vick hasn't been the focus of the KU offense since he arrived in Lawrence. Even this year, he's getting more shots, but he's not the primary or even really the secondary option.

That's an adjustment that lots of players struggle with. There are very few college players that will go on to be first or second options in the NBA - maybe half a dozen in a given year if you're lucky. Vick won't have to do that. He was sixth man last year. He's roughly the third or fourth option this season. That's the type of role he will have in the NBA, and he's already shown that he can excel in that role.

@justanotherfan

Agree on all points.

NBA talk is always funny to me because it 99% wrong. Take a look at ANY draft and look at the amount of players who are out of the league in 3 years. There is NOBODY on our roster that will play in the NBA for longer than 3 years. Billy Preston is actually the only one that has a legit chance of having a decent career, but I haven't seen enough.

@dylans Top 5 pick? It isnt just a stroke he is missing. He has ZERO explosiveness. He is a horrible rebounder for his size because of it. He also almost always has to gather before going up with the ball. In college he gets away with it, in the NBA he will get his shot blocked every time.

@BigBad And Durant can’t bench press the bar. I still say if Dok could stroke it he’d be a top 5 pick. You can’t teach 7’1”. But as it stands he’s not very skilled, doesn’t rebound well for his size, and has no shot. He would be as successful as Cliff Alexander in the NBA at this point.

@dylans A stroke doesnt fix his lack of athleticism. Durrant may be weak but he is explosive enough for his size and position. A durrant stroke doesnt fall out of trees.

How athletic does he need to be? He’s 7’1” if he could stroke it flat footed most people couldn’t bother his shot. He’s athletic enough to block shots. He need to gain basketball IQ Dok’s problem beyond having absolutely the ugliest shot in basketball is his lack of understanding of how to position himself. How to seal off his man to get easy baskets, how to hedge on defense. Things that will hopefully come with experience. Lando did those things well, but he was 6’9” and unathletic if he was over 7ft. he’d likely be getting paid to play basketball a bit more than he currently is.

Ifs and buts. He’s not going to develop a shot so it’s a moot point.

@dylans He has shown a nice little hook at times. Needs to learn some arc on both that and his FTs, but practice will improve those.

As to verticality, his body type may not allow much; Hudy will figure out what he can do. Remember, he was 40 lbs heavier on his arrival, and every time he goes up he is trying to not only leg press 260 or more--he is trying to leg toss that weight a foot or more into the air after never having had to do it as a younger player.

@BigBad

I would tend to disagree regarding guys not sticking in the NBA.

Devonte will probably play a few years in the NBA as backup PG at the very least. He's probably slotted as a starter on a poor team, but a backup on a very good team. His shooting and defensive ability make him a likely fit even though he probably won't be a high draft pick.

I've already outlined why I think Vick could have the best career of anyone on the current roster, so I won't belabor that here.

Svi will get a very long look. How he adapts to NBA athleticism determines if he stays in the league a dozen years or a dozen games.

Doke will also get a look. If he can become an elite PnR roll man, he could become a DeAndre Jordan type player. Thing is, he may be back in Lawrence next year to work on that.

Newman is the wild card. If he can move to the point, he could have a career. As a 2, he's destined to head overseas.

Preston is a bit of an unknown. Physically, he can play in the NBA. But the direction the NBA is heading, he really needs to improve on the perimeter both offensively and especially defensively so he can match up with wings and Durant/Paul George type players. If he can do that, he has a decade in the league. If not, he will wash out.

I would say out of all of these guys, Vick plays 12 years, Devonte plays 9, Preston plays 7, Doke plays 4, Svi and Newman go overseas.

@mayjay I’m amazed with the transformation of Dok’s body. Hudy is amazing!

dylans said:

How athletic does he need to be? He’s 7’1” if he could stroke it flat footed most people couldn’t bother his shot. He’s athletic enough to block shots.

We have played NOBODY outside of UK as far as real talent. Doke is averaging 1.4 blocks. So obviously he isnt athletic enough to block shots. Lightfoot is leading the team in blocks.

What a lot of you guys do not seem to grasp is that Bill Self MAXIMIZES his roster every year. It's why we get ranked so high with marginal talent.

justanotherfan said:

I would say out of all of these guys, Vick plays 12 years, Devonte plays 9, Preston plays 7, Doke plays 4, Svi and Newman go overseas.

Vick has zero natural ball skills and a so so shot. He is a slasher period. To excel at that role in NBA to play 12 years he'd need to be around 6'7.

Devonte struggles against length(Oregon) and when his wide open or chucks from outside are not falling he cant create in the half court for himself. If he had ability to play 9 years in the NBA he would already be gone.

Svi is not fast enough and has really short arms. Though his age may get him some looks.

I like these guys as college players, I just don't see their skills translating to NBA.

@BigBad To your point the times that Self has had multiple guys that hung around the league he made the title game...

2008: Rio, Arthur, Cole and Rush still in the league.
2012: Taylor had a couple years, now around Europe. TRob was around until last year. Withey still in the league.

I certainly agree about Graham, Svi and Doke. Graham is a great college guard but his pro ball will be in Europe.

I disagree about Vick though. I think he can hang around.

I'm really hopeful for next season. Grimes I feel is an NBA talent. I'm on the fence about Dotson he needs to develop his shot and he certainly came to the right place for that. Silvio has the tools and Dedric is incredibly skilled.

@BigBad I'm not going to argue that Dok is uber athletic, he isn't. But I will never agree with you that a hypothetical 7'1", 280#, 19 year old, with Dok's level of athleticism, that could shoot lights out wouldn't be a top 5 pick.

I'm not an nba gm so it doesn't really matter though.

Vick did really well at a camp last summer in philly. NBA guys spoke very highly of him. Think it was posted on here?

@BigBad

You make some fair points. Vick isn't a PG, but his handle is solid enough to allow him to be a secondary ball handler in the NBA. With all of these guys, I am projecting some level of improvement over time, because if they do not improve, they won't last more than a year or two - nobody stays in the NBA without improving over time.

Certain stats translate well from level to level. The most consistent is rebounding. Vick averaged 3.5 rebounds last year in about 24 minutes per game. He's bumped that to 7 per game this season in almost 33 minutes. That means he can play in smaller lineups without sacrificing too much on the glass.

Vick has also been a good FT shooter in his career. Including his freshman year 3-6, Vick is a 77% career FT shooter at KU. That suggests a sound stroke. He's also a career 40% three point shooter. It's foreseeable that he can move into a 3 and D wing role with his athleticism, rebounding ability and the ability to likely shoot the three at a league average level. Add in that he can guard 1's, 2's and 3's, and he is in good shape to have a nice career at the next level.

Devonte won't be a scorer at the next level, but he's a guy that must be covered because he can shoot. In that respect, he could have a career very similar to Mario Chalmers, which is part of the reason I tabbed him at 9 years. Chalmers briefly faded out of the league after last season before landing with Memphis again. He may hang around another year or two. He may not. He's at 9 years in the league right now. Additionally, Devonte will play a full year at the point as a primary ball handler in college, something Mario never did with Sherron and RussRob around.

Doke will get a long look with his size, but I just don't know if he fits in the modern NBA. Still, he will get chances through the end of his rookie contract because he's big and pretty athletic.

Svi is a good shooter and improved ball handler, but I don't know if he will stick for the reasons you point out. Even if he never plays a second of NBA ball, he can get paid to play basketball for the next 15 years somewhere.

One thing @BigBad is really right about is we tend to overrate the NBA potential of KU players. I'm guilty of it myself even.

@justanotherfan Chalmers is an ELITE defender who possess a 6'9 wingspan at 6'1. I dont see Devonte in that mold.

Our 2008 team was special. It took NBA talent to win the first final four with four #1 seeds.

Vick and then Svi have the most NBA potiental on the current team, I believe. I don’t see any future NBA all stars, but I do see collegiate level stars.

@dylans

Preston definitely has NBA potential and before the current situation, it was pretty much the consensus that he was THE sure one and done.

@JayHawkFanToo Completely forgot about Billy, since he’s not on the playing roster.

What is crazy is our 2008 team was LOADED with pros and we barely survive Stephen Curry in the Elite Eight. Go back and watch that game on youtube. Curry is what he is now. No idea how scouts didnt see it coming.

BigBad said:

What is crazy is our 2008 team was LOADED with pros and we barely survive Stephen Curry in the Elite Eight. Go back and watch that game on youtube. Curry is what he is now. No idea how scouts didnt see it coming.

Yeah I've actually watched this game quite a few times. We were fortunate that Curry didn't take the final shot, from any range.

BigBad said:

justanotherfan said:

I would say out of all of these guys, Vick plays 12 years, Devonte plays 9, Preston plays 7, Doke plays 4, Svi and Newman go overseas.

Vick has zero natural ball skills and a so so shot. He is a slasher period. To excel at that role in NBA to play 12 years he'd need to be around 6'7.

Devonte struggles against length(Oregon) and when his wide open or chucks from outside are not falling he cant create in the half court for himself. If he had ability to play 9 years in the NBA he would already be gone.

Svi is not fast enough and has really short arms. Though his age may get him some looks.

I like these guys as college players, I just don't see their skills translating to NBA.

I disagree on a couple points. Vick can be a lights out shooter. He's a career 40% 3 point shooter and almost 80% FT shooter. That's a heck of a lot better than so-so. He's shooting like 55% from 3 this season. He's got some work above the neck to be a great defender, but has all the physical tools to be a very good perimeter defender in the NBA. I think he ends up coming back to KU, since he's a borderline first rounder.

I think Devonte can be a plus backup in the NBA for a decade. The dude is just a good basketball player. He's got solid size and length for a pro PG, plus is a better distributor and shooter than Mario ever was. I could see him going anywhere from 25-35 in the draft. I actually agree with you on Svi. I just don't see it for him in the NBA. Not sure he's athletic enough to be a 2, but also don't think he's big enough to be a 3. I can see him having a very long and lucrative career overseas though.

I see Vick with a NBA future. He could be a 1st round pick this year or next season.

Svi can shoot but his limitations will make it hard for him.

Devonte will make a team especially if he continues to shoot the ball and rack up assists the way he is. He's at best a late 1st round type, more likely a solid 2nd round pick at this point.

Can't imagine Newman or Doke will make the combine currently

@BigBad

I was terrified of Curry on that last shot. History is probably different if he insists on taking that shot - he should have taken that shot.

@justanotherfan But...didn't we force the ball out of his hands with our defense?

@Hawk8086 Yes Self wanted anyone but Curry to take it.

@justanotherfan "History is probably different if he insists on taking that shot - he should have taken that shot."

I feel the same way about Jacque Vaughn passing up the shot vs. AZ.

🐦 View Tweet

Get em Q.

Vick is going anywhere from 19 to undrafted on mocks.

Newman also looking like he will be back. Or in Europe I guess.

I do want me some Langford, but a returning Newman and Vick combo could be just what the doctor ordered to help these two young studs we have coming in.

At this point, next year's roster projects:

• PG: Dotson, Moore
• SG: Grimes, Newman
• SF: Vick, Garrett, Cunliffe
• PF: Lawson, De Sousa, Lightfoot, Lawson
• C: Doke, McCormack

And, I haven't seen Preston on boards lately... We are a scholarship over if nobody leaves early. That means either someone is getting forced out or someone is going pro. Only person you could really force out would be Lightfoot. So either Billy, Newman or Vick would need to go pro.

Either way, next year's team is f-ing stacked. And our post depth is going to be out of this world.

@Kcmatt7

With they way Newman has played to date I'm not sure you want him back. I think we want the fresh slate to play the young guys and not have someone standing in their way. Newman so far is either just overrated or not playing to his abilities. Right now that would seem to be a mix of both.

Vick is the more important player. He's taken a step forward in his role this season and if he's back next season we have that go-to guy.

I think Langford's decision is based more on Vick but maybe if Newman leaves he still see's the opportunity here with a guard leaving. We could certainly trot out some exciting lineup combo's if Langford joins a Vick, Grimes, Dotson, Moore, Garrett, Cunliffe perimeter

@Kcmatt7

I really don't think Lightfoot would be forced out; I can see Newman being forced out before Lightfoot.

In any case, I believe Newman came to KU to get exposure and improve his draft stock but looks like he has been exposed instead. He is way too inconsistent and perhaps overrated, although the jury is still out on this. I just don't see him with NBA potential and overseas looks like the more likely destination and if that is the case, no need to stick around for an extra year.

I'll be shocked if Lightfoot is in the rotation next season with what we should have at the 4 next season. The Lawson's are so much better then Mitch is currently. This would be the perfect scenario to redshirt him.

Just having the 5- Doke, Dave, D Lawson, KJ Lawson & De Sousa is a lot of mouths to feed. Some serious size and skill among those 5 guys.

@BeddieKU23 Tell ya what. I don't think you have to worry about Newman being a problem as far as keeping say like Langford away if he wanted to come. - -I really believe Newman is gone one way or another. - More likely then not oversea's then the NBA - but one way or another he won't be back.

Vick I fully believe will declare for the NBA -he has already some pretty decent improvement this year - I just think he is gone. Putting Langford in a position where he wouldn't have either one here if he wanted to come. -Goin down to the wire between Ku & Vanderbilt. - -I know doesn't really mean anything, cause we all know that the damn CB doesn't mean much - -BUT as we also know he is down to the three Schools - -Indiana - Vanderbilt - & KU -- but yet it only shows KU & Vanderbilt as warmer and Indiana at Warm for what that's worth - -we shall see - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@BeddieKU23 Idk, "Malik Newman, Sixth Man", has a nice ring to it if you ask me...

Malik is putting up almost identical numbers to Junior Devonte. So I just don't think that we have fair expectations for the guy. I guess I'm just not seeing the same Malik everyone else is. To me, the guy looks like a very solid guard who just isn't in sync with everyone else quite yet. He is shooting the 3 at a 40% clip. He is rebounding well for a guard. He is playing just as bad of defense as anyone else.

The truth is we expected Malik to shoot the 3 at a 50% clip, average 5 assists, be a great defender and show that he should be in the NBA already. Those were lofty expectations. But looking purely at the numbers, we can see that Malik has been a very capable college guard so far this season. And I'd love to have him back.

@Kcmatt7

If Malik were to stick around another season there would be no doubt he starts right? 3rd year in the program and a bunch of upperclassmen leaving. Seems he'd be in line for a leadership role especially mentoring the young guys.

Of course much of what I stated is what I've seen so far of Malik. If he turns it around then we benefit and more importantly for him he likely benefits. We'll see how it plays out. So far I'm fairly disappointed and I had lower expectations of him to begin with.

@Kcmatt7 agreed. I'm expecting Malik to stay humble and hungry and figure it out.

@BeddieKU23 lol I have no idea. All I know is that it is a problem I would like to have.

I guess it doesn't hurt to dream if that's what you want. -I'm just saying from what Malik has aid in the past - what was highly conjectured his intention is to play the one year and then declare. - -He already tested the NBA and was told to come back If I remember right when he was at Mississippi State.

Even if he is not ready , and unless he makes a dramatic turn around he is not ready for the NBA. - -Starting to think he like some others stated MAYBE he might have been over rated but the scouts some - - it's happened before. - I'm not seeing NBA on him at the present

On top of that I really don't think their is an available spot for him as I think Coach Self went into the recruiting year fully with the belief that Malik was gone after this year. - - There is where Grimes was recruited to take Malik spot. - Now I don't need someone trying to say - -no Quentin was recruited as a PG - -no he wasn't he was recruited as a 2 - -Devon was recruited as our point guard of the future from the get go - -and I fully believe BOTH was told as such -Quentin the 2 spot - Devon the 1. - If he were to try and come back that would be forcing somebody out - -unless he were to give up on Langford which I don't think he is going to do that - No Scholi's left

Could be wrong with the schlorships available - -but just from everything he dad said in the past - -Malik's train of thought - -And like I said I feel the way Bill is recruiting his position - I fully believe Malik will not be back not matter what the season brings. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think it's part of the plan for Malik to go. Would he be okay with coming off the bench? Might be really difficult for him. I expect him to go and not get drafted.

BeddieKU23 said:

I'll be shocked if Lightfoot is in the rotation next season with what we should have at the 4 next season. The Lawson's are so much better then Mitch is currently. This would be the perfect scenario to redshirt him.

Just having the 5- Doke, Dave, D Lawson, KJ Lawson & De Sousa is a lot of mouths to feed. Some serious size and skill among those 5 guys.

The ever rare junior season redshirt. I think it would be best for everyone though.

@jayballer54

I thought Newman was a shoe-in to leave after the year. Things do change though. There was popular talk Svi & Graham were gone last season at this time. Unless something changes boy Malik would be making a mistake leaving.

BShark said:

I think it's part of the plan for Malik to go. Would he be okay with coming off the bench? Might be really difficult for him. I expect him to go and not get drafted.

That's sad, I hope he reconsiders if his play continues as it is.

@BeddieKU23

The injury kind of re-shuffles things for Newman. He's playing okay, but not exceptional. I certainly think he can be better, but the injury may not allow that with the nature of concussions and how long it takes to get back to normal. He's been slightly better than he was at Miss. St, while being more efficient. I think he was nearing a breakout, but again, the concussion changes that trajectory in a way we can't know right now.

How that affects his pro prospects is an open question.

BeddieKU23 said:

@jayballer54

I thought Newman was a shoe-in to leave after the year. Things do change though. There was popular talk Svi & Graham were gone last season at this time. Unless something changes boy Malik would be making a mistake leaving.

I agree, but like B-shark says I just don't think he will come back no matter what. - If he isn't drafted or whatever - -Like if it is D-League he won't do that - -but he will just head oversea's - I just don't think he is coming back at all. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@justanotherfan I'm optimistic that this will actually help him.

Hopefully he can't do anything but the basics the next couple of days, and he watches a ton of film. Then, he gets thrown back into the mix as soon as he is cleared and instead of pressing he just lets the game come to him. I think his major problem has been him trying to force the issue instead of just letting open shots come to him.

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

I think it's part of the plan for Malik to go. Would he be okay with coming off the bench? Might be really difficult for him. I expect him to go and not get drafted.

That's sad, I hope he reconsiders if his play continues as it is.

Does Self still want him though? Current commits were signed assuming he was leaving. It could actually mess stuff up if he stayed.

@Kcmatt7 can't watch film w/head injury

@Crimsonorblue22 It isn't an eye injury lol.

@Kcmatt7 no tv or video games, really.

We also don't know what degree his concussion is, but he wasn't knocked out. He hit that knee pretty hard though and in a bad spot. Don't mess w/those anymore.

Here is a good site to visit if you have spare time ↗. You can click on the various headings such as scoring rebounding and so on and take a look at the various statistics. Some of the numbers will surprise you and players that we think are not playing that well have pretty decent numbers.

Eric Bossi says that Ku & Vanderbilt are separating themselves from Indiana - -for Romeo Langford/

Another poster stated: Logic dictates the reason he is waiting - - Waiting to see what happens with Vick. - - No reason for Langford to wait as far as a decision to sign with Vanderbilt OR Indiana - - makes sense - -If Vick comes back - -then no looks like wouldn't come - -If Vick leaves - - looks like might be game on. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

KU definitely has a really good chance if Vick goes.

The way Vick is playing, I wouldn’t expect him back. He’ll at least declare.

Newman is a weird case. We have room for him next season if he wants to come back. Could easily play Dotson/Newman/Grimes in the backcourt. But I’d be very surprised if he came back. Not sure what he can do, other than convince NBA teams he can run the point.

Bossi said today that Langford is still really open to all 3 schools, and that KU is in an interesting spot since the backcourt could be VERY crowded.

The way Vick is playing NOW I think we stand a great chance of him coming back. - Well I mean IF he were playing. - I had to ask people last night if he was on the floor - he has just pulled a vanishing act. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Jayballer54 The way Vick is playing now I do not want him back. The obvious choice would be to take a veteran senior over a freshman, but Vick has lost his mojo, intensity, and want to. He has less than a half season to reverse that trend. If not, give me a new face that wants to come in and prove himself.

@Big-Clyde52 Did Vick start dating the crazy girl again?? Something is up with him.

@Barney Not to my knowledge. As far as I know he is not hurt either. He just seems to be playing tentative or scared for some reason. He has great athletic ability but for whatever reason he does not seem to want to force his will on the opponent. Maybe he developed some type of mental block. Early on he looked like a candidate for all Big 12 selection, then when conference started he regressed quickly. If he could shake out of this funk it would be a huge boost to the team. Still time for that to happen.

@Big-Clyde52

Now, Vick does have the yips. :smile:

Staff visiting Romeo again.

KU coaches will be at his game tonight

Reading the tea leaves, and from a couple people I’ve talked to around IU, KU should get Romeo if there’s a role. If for some weird reason Vick leaves and Newman comes back, I think we get Romeo. We move Newman to the role Charlie Moore would’ve had, and start 3 of Newman, Grimes, Dotson, and Langford.

Newman is in the process of turning the corner on his season. Depending on how this goes, Newman could vault himself into the first round.

@justanotherfan yeah... that’s not happening.

BeddieKU23 said:

Staff visiting Romeo again.

He retweeted a few tweets about Self being there. Doesn't really mean much but obviously these kids care. We should keep showing up as much as possible.

@FarmerJayhawk

Newman was at one time an elite level talent as a three level scorer. If he continues to score 15+ and does so reasonably efficiently, the people that projected him as an OAD may be convinced that his skillset will translate. Newman was an elite player, evaluated higher than some guys currently in the NBA out of HS, including a lottery pick from last year in Luke Kennard.

Oh I know he was. I can’t think a team at the back of the first is looking at Malik and valuing him more than a guy like Mitchell Robinson, Landry Shamet, Brandon McCoy, or Hami Diallo.

the video of romeo from the staffs visit makes you think we have to get this kid at any expense. I know the Sr vs OAD arguement but Romeo is just plain a better basketball player

just read the latest interview from Romeo's dad about his recruitment:

This came from a Indiana recruiting site ( Inside the hall) - -Tim Langford was ask about any update on Romeo recruitment. - He said that they were probably going to make a visit to Vanderbilt, probably won't see a game, just get down to the campus watch them practice because it was within their range.

He said as far as KU , we won't make it out there, We just pretty much watch them play on TV. -( BUT if you've been following his recruitment - -we already knew this ) - -Romeo has been here already.

He said things that they look for are like - -how teams will guard other players, - -how the Coach reacts coming out of a timeout , plays that are set up and such.

When asked about anything on announcement Romeo's dad said , he told Romeo when they had a game on ESPN that if Romeo had decided and wanted to announce that would be a good time - -he also mentioned it would be a really good time when Family and everyone was in Atlanta for the McDonalds All star game in March if he was ready that would be good with all the family being there , it kind of sounds like that Romeo's dad would really like to see him announce then possibly - but he said if not then they could still just wait until April.

He was asked - -they asked him they said about how much was real about Garland trying to talk to him about coming to Vanderbilt - -how Grimes talked to him about coming to KU - and then some Indiana player talking to him about Indiana and package deal?

He said wasn't sure about how often Garland talked to him - - But he did know that he communicates with Grimes because of the summer we had and that they had got close.

Said what they look at more though is who is coming back ( - -hmmmmm - -VICK ) Who is coming in ( - -hmmm , as mentioned before - - -Grimes ) - said they pretty much like all 3 Coaches & styles - That was the main part and really not about a package deal.

Kind of funny in the comments where Indiana fans giving their input about WELL KU is out cause Romeo not visiting lol - -he has already been here , or that KU was to far from home - -really sad - -I like our chances - -I really like our chances if Vick leaves. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Jayballer54 said:

He said things that they look for are like - -how teams will guard other players, - -how the Coach reacts coming out of a timeout , plays that are set up and such.

Oh so the pick is KU. SHUT IT DOWN.

BShark said:

Jayballer54 said:

He said things that they look for are like - -how teams will guard other players, - -how the Coach reacts coming out of a timeout , plays that are set up and such.

Oh so the pick is KU. SHUT IT DOWN.

I noticed that quote too. Throw all the lobs to Romeo.

BShark said:

Jayballer54 said:

He said things that they look for are like - -how teams will guard other players, - -how the Coach reacts coming out of a timeout , plays that are set up and such.

Oh so the pick is KU. SHUT IT DOWN.

LOL

The comment section in that update was some kind of stupid. wow.

Dad certainly wants him to announce with all the family planning to go to Atlanta. I don't see him doing it then but something to keep our eye on

Langford dropped 63 points with 16 boards:sunglasses: :sunglasses:

Sign him up Bill

The legend grows.

BShark said:

The legend grows.

NBA Jams on fire

His hair game is starting to resemble the ridiculous mop Brian Bowen has

The competition level was certainly not good.

Has great form on his shot.

Romeo said today he’ll probably announce at or a little after the McDonald’s game. Doesn’t bode well for us IMO.

As of today Vick's stock has dropped and it looks like he is going to make a return.

Statmachine said:

As of today Vick's stock has dropped and it looks like he is going to make a return.

Not sure how I feel about this. Do you have any word on who is leaving the program to make room for Agbaji?

@BShark In order of likelihood: Newman, Vick, Doke, Sam

@Statmachine really depends on what Vicks camp is thinking. Does a return actually improve his stock? They might be ready to move on and start getting paid to play

https://kansas.247sports.com/Article/Romeo-Langford-took-a-visit-to-Vanderbilt-and-continues-to-let-all-three-schools-make-final-impressions-115308034 ↗

BShark said:

https://kansas.247sports.com/Article/Romeo-Langford-took-a-visit-to-Vanderbilt-and-continues-to-let-all-three-schools-make-final-impressions-115308034 ↗

Well dam this doesn't do me any good - -as it's a dam VIP - so don't know what he said about KU - - yay. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@BShark Can they tell us what players Self is telling them won't be back? Lol.

Ummm that article makes it seem like ku is leading and everyone else is trying to sell their soul

Big dog vs little dogs battle

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark Can they tell us what players Self is telling them won't be back? Lol.

That would be nice wouldn't it? Self definitely knows.

Unfortunately New Albany lost tonight so now Langford will focus on recruiting and all star games.

OK let me just say this. - - Is Indiana in the NCAA tourney? - - and the ANSWER IS? - - -UMM NO. - - Is Indiana in the Sweet Sixteen ? - - and the ANSWER IS ? - - -UMM NO - - - - - is Vanderbilt in the NCAA Tourney ? - - -and the ANSWER IS ? - - -UMM NO. - - -Is Vanderbilt in the Sweet sixteen? - - and the ANSWER IS? - - UMM NO .

Is Indiana on the level of KU ? - - and the ANSWER IS? - -UMM NO. - - has Indiana been prevelant in the tourney in recent history? - - and the ANSWER IS? - - -UMM NO - - - - Is Vanderbilt on the level of KU ? - -and the ANSWER IS? - - UMM NO. - - does Vanderbilt have a record of consistency in make the NCAA Tourney? - -and the ANSWER IS? - - UMM NO

ARE Indiana and Vanderbilt National Powers ? - - -and the ANSWER IS? - - UMM NO - - Do you want to play for a top ten program that is there year after year after year Romeo? - - and the ANSWER IS ? - - -UMM YES -should be a no doubter - -end of story - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

Don't you wish kids see it that way

@BeddieKU23 Boy do I. - -but their minds change as fast as a Kansas Weather forecast. - A lot of them don't see the broad picture. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

I'm not sure what the weather is like in Kansas but where I live it was 75 one day, 20 the next with 6 inches of snow and then we got 3 Nor'easter's in a week and on the first day of spring it was 7 out this morning

@BeddieKU23 I sure feel for you with those storms - hear there is suppose to be a monster storm heading to Boston this Weekend - One reason WV left on their trip a day early so they could get there

There is a saying here in Kansas. - If you don't like the weather wait for five minutes it will change lol. - Have seen multiple times where it was raining it's ass off on one side of the street and nothing on the other side with sunshine.- -Of Course we have our Tornados been through 2 F-5"s don't want to go through anymore. -Wind can flat blow you away- -you just never know what your going to get - -same way with a 17 - -18 yr old kid trying to make a decision - -he can and a lot of times will change his mind at the drop of a hat lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

Sounds very similar then. It looks like where I live will miss the storm for the most part. I know everyone is sick of snow especially as we hit the end of March here.

With Langford I think he's taking a very deliberate and patient approach. I don't think he's staying in-state and has done the right thing overall. Indiana fans have taken his recruitment to extremes and it will be funny to see the meltdown if he goes to KU or Vandy

@BeddieKU23 We had between .05-.10" of rain last night. First moisture since mid-October. Nearly a record. My poor boy loves snow and we haven't had snow stick around for more than a day or two in years. So rub it in why don't cha? 😄

dylans said:

@BeddieKU23 We had between .05-.10" of rain last night. First moisture since mid-October. Nearly a record. My poor boy loves snow and we haven't had snow stick around for more than a day or two in years. So rub it in why don't cha? 😄

I will glady ship you all the snow from my yard for free. :joy:

@BeddieKU23 I think next winter I will get some fine spray nozzles and make my own snow machine. I can't change the weather, but I will make it snow next season!

@BeddieKU23 So I take it you must live somewhere close to the Coast then right? not sure. - -I Always say to people here when they start bitching about the winters here- I just say pssssssst please - -what would you do if you ever had to really go through a winter. - -We haven't had squat for a winter here in I'd guess 10 yrs. - - Now we had some decent snows earlier in my life but I said if you complained to the people like from the East Coast about how bad we had it in the Winter -they would laugh you out of the room. - - Hell when I hear of snow rates of 2-3 inches an hour in your snows sometimes - - I think holy shit - hell we get 3 inches for a storm and people think it's a decent snow - -FOR THE STORM LOL

As far as Langford - When I heard talk of him maybe announcing at the All Star game I thought we were out. But since he is waiting till April - - I think that no way can hurt our chances would you think? - -Like I've heard other people say he is waiting to see what Vick does - - makes sense to me. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

About 3 hours from the coast but every storm that has hit recently has been brutal for snowfall totals. A town a few miles away got over 4 feet in higher elevations. It's been hit or miss lately here as far as big storms but this year has definitely been "hit" and in the wrong month as usually we are done with snow by now. Kids have missed so many days of school they are going into July now.

The more Langford waits until April the more I like our chances as you said. And if guys leave that we suspect might be we'll have a lot of minutes to give him

@BeddieKU23 Mercy. - - -that is brutal. - - -I bet the kids really enjoy having to go to school that long - -that's insane.

Gonna be interesting to see how this Langford thing shakes out. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

I know the parents are not happy either. A lot of school days have been canceled over the threat of a big storm instead of waiting for it to actually hit. I can think of at least 3 days that have had cancellations and there wasn't even any snow on the ground by noon. The decision making process has gotten soft compared to what it was even 10-15 years ago.

I've felt confident with Romeo for a while. The more I've watched his games this year the more excited I get envisioning him here with what we have coming back and coming in. I would take Malik coming back to anchor the team but if he's leaving Romeo is absolutely the best option out there.

@BeddieKU23 I saw an analysis of why there are more snow days without snow. States have largely reduced funding for school districts, school districts are getting consolidated, and plows are less available or shared by several municipalities. With districts covering wider geographical areas that can combine city and rural areas, the school boards have to make decisions sooner than they used to, and do not want to run the busses (which in many places like SC are poorly maintained) in any areas that might get hit by snow, affecting an entire district even if a storm might be limited. They have liabilty concerns over both running the busses on slippery roads, and not running the busses while the schools are open because of the worry that parents and kids will then have to drive those roads. Finally, with busses often shared by several schools or even districts, transporting the busses from closed districts to open districts can be iffy at best. (In SC all busses are owned by the state. Oh, yay.)

So, consolidation and limited funds, coupled with ultra-sensitivity to liabilty, are the reason kids get to stay home now and go to school in summer.

@mayjay

Yes they sometimes close the schools a day in advance of the storm and its happened multiple times where kids have missed school without any snow actually falling. Anytime Nor'easter starts making the news, schools start panicking. I have a feeling once my son gets old enough I'm going to really feel the pain of this issue.

Well I wonder how much attention Romeo has been paying attention to our trek and landing in San Antonio? - -You wanna play for an elite program? -you want to enjoy something like this? - I would think this success in the tourney can't do anything but help us with him ya think?

Also wonder what this deep run does to La Gerald's thought process as far as leaving or returning? - If we should happen to win it all - -you think that will influence him one way or another? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

Yes, I believe it helps with Langford. Vick situation depends on whether he is projected to be drafted. He started hot but has waned quite a bit.

@jayballer73

If he watched Sunday's game and wasn't convinced well I'll laugh at him for the rest of time. That's as good as it gets for a recruiting advantage. I don't think we are done impressing either. This ride is continuing all the way to Monday Night.

Having said that I'm not sure what effect winning has on recruits such as Langford. He knows all 3 situations, he knows the coaches, the cultures, the styles of play. He's about maximizing his one year for the pro's. We have a father that's involved on a similar level to some others.

He's a fantastic talent, I think KU needs him to compete for a title next season as I've stated multiple times but I also have this sense that Langford isn't as much concerned about KU as what comes next. And for the most part every player that's come to KU that "doesn't unpack the bags" ends up hurting us when it counts most in March. I've also seen reports that he is the type that would put his mind and body on the line wherever he goes as he's had tremendous pressure surrounding him this year as Indiana goes crazy over his every move. I've seen reports that he's handled everything thrown at him very well. He could have went to other higher profile schools but wanted to be around his team and his hometown. Self will demand he unpack his bags if he wants that challenge, he'll be here. Just my thoughts here.

Vick.. Who knows. This version of Vick is the one we all thought might be NBA gone after season's end. I'd imagine a tourney run would give him momentum, get a combine invite, see how he tests and plays etc. I still think he's leaving but I would love to be wrong. The passion he's showing on the court for the past month would be awesome to have back. If Vick is going to ever break out of his shell from the type of person he is, leading a young bunch of guys next season could be what he needs to make it professionally.

@BeddieKU23 I agree. - -I do know or well at least what I had read was that his Dad has said that they wanted to watch the teams more see their style of play more to see how he would fit - -Watch the Coaching style and how the Coach is using his players how he inner acts. - I would think he would be able to see how Coach has been able to work with our current group and see how they have developed and even though they said they wouldn't be making another trip to Lawrence with us advancing and making this run - could do nothing but help us - him being able to see how Coach is getting these guys to be more aggressive , let him see how they are developing - put that on top of the National exposure to showcase his talents he would be getting has got to be a plus for us. - Your are 100% - right. - If he didn't take notice of yesterdays game then - I don't know what to say - -That game was a classic - -a battle of two blue bloods being show cased. - -By far the best game of the tourney this year - hands down. - -Plus next Saturday could be another classic.

I have to agree with you again - -I too still think Vick is gone after this year - -he is turning it up some again re-emerging has been playing pretty well for a bit now - I just feel that he either will be drafted or over sea's - -I know it was one play but it was a HUGE play a big time reaction - - -when he was in the middle of that zone and think it was in the overtime - -Graham got him the ball and it had barely hit his hands and he kicked it out to Malik for that huge shot - -just like BAM - - BAM so quick - that's big boy play there. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Read this morning that our 3 boys at the McDonalds all star is all up in Romeo's ear - - Mainly Grimes - -trying to get him on board to come to KU - -telling him what the three of them could do at KU. - Romeo says he talks with Grimes a lot - -Dotson says he has talked to him some - Mc Cormack has talked to him some - but mainly Grimes - - Romeo say will probably be towards the end of April when he decides - -wants to get these all star games out of the way. - -GET ER DONE BOYRS -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Man!!! I dont want to see Vick leave! I really dont. He could be a lotto pick if he came back and it could be HIS team next year. But I also want Langford at KU. We cant have both can we??

@Lulufulu Do you really want Vick to be the leader of a team?

@Kcmatt7 Well no, but from an experience level he would be.

Langford is waiting to see a couple of things.

1) What happens with grad transfers
2) What happens with guys and the NBA

I don't know what Vick is going to do at this point. I'm really not sure what he should do.

If KU wins the title, Newman probably has to leave. With the tournament he's had, he almost has to go. Even if they don't win it, Newman has shown something this month that may mean he needs to go. He was an elite talent coming out of HS. He has gotten back to that elite level. His efficiency has exploded, and he's done all of this while averaging fewer than 1.5 turnovers per game, and his rebounding numbers are up.

Every important stat is up from his year at MSU - FG%, PPG, FT%, 3PT%, REB, STL, TO - Malik has become a better all around player, and now his scoring is back to the level a lot of people envisioned when he was coming out of HS (averaged 30 a game in HS). Let's not forget that he was better than Devin Booker coming out of HS. He has shown the handle and shooting stroke, along with a renewed commitment on the defensive end, that could get him paid this year.

@justanotherfan Speaking of grad transfers there have been some whisperings of an interesting one that would end up at KU if needed. Would have to miss on Langford though.

@BShark Who would that be? I'm looking at the 247 board but I don't see anything.

@Kcmatt7 I'm not sure if this has been posted about.

@BShark Jalen Brunson 😂

@FarmerJayhawk ha. please!

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BShark Jalen Brunson 😂

:joy: :joy:

Would take though!!! XD

@Kcmatt7 I don't think Vick wants to be the leader. I think he would defer to someone more outspoken if he returns, even if we would be better off having his experience around the green guys. I hope he comes back; I think he could be a big help. I hope through all of his emotional ups and downs, he has had an "ah ha" moment after the win against Duke, and decided that he wants to be a Jayhawk one more year, with some sense of passage to a new stage of life with the same scenery. But it's just as likely he decides a change of scenery is the right prescription and moves on, whether it appears to be best for him from an outsider's perspective or not.

Mitch and doke have done a great job w/Silvio. Have always thought it needs to be a guy on the court, u think?

@Lulufulu A senior Vick is better than a freshman Langford. We also need some upperclassman experience and leadership.

@LSH If he is the same player as this year, I'll take a Langford.

If Vick has a great offseason, I'd probably take a Vick.

justanotherfan said:

Langford is waiting to see a couple of things.

1) What happens with grad transfers
2) What happens with guys and the NBA

I don't know what Vick is going to do at this point. I'm really not sure what he should do.

If KU wins the title, Newman probably has to leave. With the tournament he's had, he almost has to go. Even if they don't win it, Newman has shown something this month that may mean he needs to go. He was an elite talent coming out of HS. He has gotten back to that elite level. His efficiency has exploded, and he's done all of this while averaging fewer than 1.5 turnovers per game, and his rebounding numbers are up.

Every important stat is up from his year at MSU - FG%, PPG, FT%, 3PT%, REB, STL, TO - Malik has become a better all around player, and now his scoring is back to the level a lot of people envisioned when he was coming out of HS (averaged 30 a game in HS). Let's not forget that he was better than Devin Booker coming out of HS. He has shown the handle and shooting stroke, along with a renewed commitment on the defensive end, that could get him paid this year.

Don't forget the most important stat went down from the previous years....number of run ins with the Po-Po. He's stayed pretty clean in the last year and a half or so.

Here's the weird thing about Vick - even though we have complained about his consistency, Vick has seen his numbers improve from last season, both overall and on a rate basis, with the exception of FT shooting.

He's better across the board, particularly on his 2 pt shooting, where he's at 56%. True shooting is up 2%. Effective FG% is up 4%. Defensive rebounding % is up 1.5%. Offensive rebounding % is up 0.3%. He's nearly doubled his assist %, while cutting half a percent off his turnover %. All the while, his usage is up 3 points.

Defensively he has taken a bit of a step back, but part of that could also be that this KU team isn't great defensively, which drags each individual's numbers down.

Does that make him an NBA draft pick? I don't know. But I think it shows that he can play in the NBA.

@bmensch1 Did I miss Malik run-ins with the law?

@mayjay

I though he was talking about Vick, but he really did no have any run-ins with the Police either, only with his girlfriend (he said/she said) and I seem to remember that was handled internally by KU.

Oddly, I tend to lean Langford, though I might think differently tomorrow. Just a little underwhelmed with Vick. But I just don't know. And I think I doubt Vick being any sort of leader. That may be the real question for next season, with all that talent, where is the team leader? Where is a grad transfer like Tarik Black when you need it -- character-wise and leadership-wise.

@Kcmatt7 It's a good trade for a Sr. Vick if Langford stays for 2 or more years. Otherwise, Vick has too much experience with Self's way of playing and with winning to trade for a one year Freshman Langford.

@LSH Langford is being projected as a top 10 pick so definitely just one year.

mayjay said:

@bmensch1 Did I miss Malik run-ins with the law?

No...I messed up...had vick on the brain...not malik. Sorry about that

@HighEliteMajor

I worry about who will be the team leaders as well. I also think this could be good for us in a way. You have a lot of new pieces that can form their own identity and figure it out on their own. We've been fortunate enough to pass the baton on so to speak to guys waiting in the wings but I don't think that option exists unless Doke returns. He's got some fight to him. We'll see I expect Dedric to be a vocal piece next season

I think Dotson will emerge as a leader.

@LSH Seems to me like it could end up being a situation where we are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Vick may become the de facto leader because of his experience instead of a natural leader taking over the team next season. And that seems like a disaster to me.

@Kcmatt7 I'm pretty sure Newman and Vick are gone.

@BShark I feel very confident that they are too. I wouldn't waste another year of potential earnings if I were either of them. Vick could go play overseas next year for a pretty penny, or he could stay here an MAYBE play himself into the 2nd round. I'd take the money now.

I think the Langfords are just being smart and waiting out the process, because there really is no reason to rush it.

Langford is an elite level talent. From a talent perspective, its difficult to compare him to Vick. Obviously, Vick has the experience edge, but Langford is incredibly talented and could likely make up that experience gap.

Next year's team likely struggles a bit early on because they have to integrate a lot of new pieces. The good thing is that it looks like everyone can probably fit together from a basketball perspective. There's not a lot of overlapping skills and preferences that could cause guys to get in each others' way.

It took Newman most of the season to figure out how to be most effective because he needed time to work with Doke and everyone else on where people would be. Notice how his drives early in the season seemed to be into very congested spots, but now he seems to be driving into open space? That's getting used to where people go, how they cut, etc. There was a play in the Duke game where Svi cut baseline and Malik found him for a perfect reverse layup. Early in the season, Malik either drives too early and gets cut off, or Svi cuts to early and the timing isn't there. Now, that play works out perfectly because Malik arrives in the lane at the same time Svi is making his cut. If either one is half a beat off, that play isn't there. It may not result in a turnover, but it certainly doesn't result in an easy layup.

That takes time. That takes repetitions. That takes familiarity, which can be achieved by March, but won't be there in November/December.

@justanotherfan

Nice post. I think coaching has helped push Newman where he is as well. This is everything clicking at the right time for KU. I Imagine the coaches have spent a lot of time to get guys into the roles they are now. Malik was being touted big time by Self in the offseason and that certainly felt like an aberration for a while but now we've seen the benefits of sticking with it and continuing to fight for the best out of Newman and the team.

A guy in the know told me Langford is done to KU, barring both Newman and Vick returning. 👀

@FarmerJayhawk

That's a done deal then, because Newman at least is going, and Vick may as well.

Landry Shamet declared for the draft today, so I can't see Newman not declaring next week once the season is over.

Shamet sign w/agent?

@Crimsonorblue22 Said he plans to. Made it very clear he isn't coming back.

@justanotherfan Mercy - - Marsha took a huge hit this year lol

@jayballer73 Will find out alotta about Marsha the next few seasons, not that he didn’t build the place up a bit from Turg but I think he got pretty lucky with a few guys, it will be interesting. I believe we are +1 in terms of Scholarships to players currently with whom we have signed. I’d bet cold hard cash at least Newman is gone and Vick just may go to. My inside sources said months ago Newman was forsure gonna go before his recent up tick, someone will draft him and take chance with his scoring capability.

@kjayhawks Marsha’s juco transfer didn’t pan out either. Not sure if it was injury or illness. I know he couldn’t practice till fall until he passed summer classes.

@kjayhawks I've felt Newman was gone for a long time now. - - Whether it be NBA - or Oversea's - -either way - -I too think Vick also gone - -refer about Newman - -Vick the same way - -I just think they ae ready or they want to start pulling in some money

I heard Newman growing up in a 2 bedroom home w/dad and dads 2 siblings and gma. Wonder where his mom is at? So many sad stories, hurts my heart.

I am excited about the possibility of signing Romeo Langford. Langford will make it 4 McD's AA in our recruiting class next year (possible 5 if we count de Sousa who came a semster early.) Is this a record for KU?

@LSH

I don’t believe De Sousa is a McDonald All-American.

FarmerJayhawk said:

A guy in the know told me Langford is done to KU, barring both Newman and Vick returning. 👀

That's certainly encouraging news!

@JayHawkFanToo Silvio would have absolutely been a Mickey D's this year. If Im not mistaken the kid was a 5 star recruit

@Lulufulu

Most rankings had him as a 4 Star ranked anywhere between 30-40, so likely not a McDonald All-American.

@BShark was Trae Y to OU a family business decision?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I heard Newman growing up in a 2 bedroom home w/dad and dads 2 siblings and gma. Wonder where his mom is at? So many sad stories, hurts my heart.

This article has more on Malik's childhood; apparently Mom was still in his life after he moved in with his dad.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/vahe-gregorian/article207530979.html ↗

I still think RL picks KU. I was reading Big Dave's interview about RL. DMack said, "I don't know why he doesn't just pick KU..." Dotson, Grimes, McCormack, and RL will definitely want to take the team to the promised land. I don't know if I want to lose anyone. I really don't care what Vick does either way. I am more concerned about Newman. My ideal desire would be for Vick to leave, keep Newman, and to gain RL. I'm just not sure what Vick and Newman will do at this point. I definitely think they will be at the NBA combines. I want Langford one way or another. I'm just not sure at this point.

Garrett

Doke? I have a funny feeling he's back. He is an academic AA. He's not mentioned in any mock drafts either.

DeSousa

Moore

Lawsonx2

Meeotch

Dotson

Grimes

DMack

Obajai

Newman

Vick

Svi

DG

Cunliffe - transfer, like Whitman? He could go to a D2 school and tear it up.

Langford? If Cunliffe transfers, we could keep both Newman and Vick if they wanted to make another run.

Who am I missing? By this count, it makes 15 with Cunliffe, Vick, or Newman gone. If I chose between Vick and Cunliffe, I think Vick is better for chemistry. But, Langford will be looking at playing time. If Vick and Newman stay, Langford will go Vandy. So losing Cunliffe would not help with Langford. We may keep all and miss on Langford. If we want Langford, we will need Vick to declare. I would like Newman to stay.

If there was ever anything more obvious to Doke about NOT being ready fro the NBA it should of been the game last night. - -The reason? - -several:

1. • • Doke can not guard a mobile 5 who can step out on the floor like what happened last night. - If he were to declare for the NBA now - these guys would eat him alive. Doke has multiple things he needs to work on before tries to go that route.

Was talking with some other friends and all agreed. -- In order for Doke to make it in the NBA he just has to develop SOME kind of a jumper whether it even be a 7-10ft jumper - his little hook he has or dunk right now is not going to cut it in the NBA. - - He has to still work on more foot speed - -really actually he is pretty easy predictable at this point what he is going to do once he gets the ball. - He is to methodical almost looks like he is trying to over think what he wants to do

Thing is not really even sure if Doke will ever make it in the NBA - - - -Doke is not the typical 5 now days - -again they have went more to the more mobile 5 that can go out on the floor - -another reason he has just got to work on developing some kind of a jumper - not gonna be easy all you have to do is look at his free throw shooting - -not sure if he can - -gonna take a lot of work - but one thing is for sure just because he is well Coach said he didn't know where the 7 ft thing came from he is not 7 ft Coach said but any ways either way with what he has got right now just because he is 7ft and what 280? - that alone is not going to cut it - -he needs to come back for sure - -work on developing some kind of shot -- -foot speed -- and work with Hudy may need to drop another 10-15 lbs - - It was so obvious last night - not a knock on him just is - -it is what it is - -plain and simple - who he realizes he has work to do. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@truehawk93 I'm confused by your list. Svi and Graham are seniors.

@truehawk93

Svi and Devonté are seniors so they are gone. This leaves 13 players for the 13 (not 15) scholarships allowed. For Langford to join either Newman or Vick need to leave or maybe Cunliffe either leave or red shirt.

BTW, Doke is an Academic All-Conference rather than All-American.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@truehawk93

Svi and Devonté are seniors so they are gone. This leaves 13 players for the 13 (not 15) scholarships allowed. For Langford to join either Newman or Vick need to leave or maybe Cunliffe either leave or red shirt.

BTW, Doke is an Academic All-Conference rather than All-American.

Actually, i believe it leaves 14 players for the 13 spots. Did you count Lawson twice? As we stand now, at least one underclassmen must depart to have enough scholarships. If we want room for Langford, we need two to leave.

:fire: :fire: :fire:

BShark said:

:fire: :fire: :fire:

Matt has certainly thought we had a good chance for a while. Might as well put his money on it

I think Malik declares, Vick stays and Cunliffe either redshirts or transfers and we do sign Romeo. I think Matt makes a good point that if he was leaning towards Indiana or Vandy he would have committed by now. I also believe he’s waiting to see who leaves KU. I personally would rather have either Vick or Newman stay than Romeo.

Read where we are now at 16% up from 11% in his CB - the thing is Matt is the one that made the predict - -so the thing is - is it Matt just being a homer and hoping OR has he caught wind of something - -maybe - -seeing as Romeo has said he will probably announce towards the end of the month after these All Star games

@jayballer73 My personal crystal ball is at 99% KU.

BShark said:

@jayballer73 My personal crystal ball is at 99% KU.

• -lmao - -you don't count you goof ball lol

Agree with @SkinnyKansasDude Why would he wait til the end of the month if he has already decided on Vandy or IU. I'll my sources have said Malik is a one year guy here and he was great in the post season, even in the Nova game he had 21 and 8. I would be shocked if Vick doesn't atleast test the waters.

I think Vick is just going to get "forced" out. Or, really, the AWIII treatment. Self will tell Vick he is more than happy to have him back, providing he knows that he may very well end up coming off of the bench. From there, I think Vick and his camp will decide that he might as well leave and start making money now, because his draft stock is never going to hit potential first rounder at this point.

@Kcmatt7 I think same could apply to Cunliffe, too much talent ahead of him to get meaningful PT

Vick would play if he returns. I don't see a place for Cunliffe in the rotation, though. I don't see how he plays in the future, either. My guess is Cunliffe transfers to a D2 program to play immediately (you can play immediately if you transfer down). That keeps him from having to sit out again.

@Kcmatt7 I really like your "ahead of the curve" commentary. I think your suggestion is a very likely path. One mitigator might be that Vick did get back in the lineup (not like we had much choice), that he did bounce-back ,and the team did coalesce with Vick in the lineup. I think if Vick leaves, it is exactly what you've projected.

The question to me is whether Self would play that hand with Vick if he was unsure if Langford was coming? Or stated another way, would he only play that hand with Vick if he know Langford coming? If Vick is gone and Langford does not come, that's some pretty strong circumstantial evidence of the dynamic going on ... not definitive, of course.

Man, feel bad for Cunliffe. Should have transferred to a next step down program like ISU, or OU.

@HighEliteMajor I feel bad for Sam also.

@HighEliteMajor I think that Self is willing to take the risk with Vick, even if Langford doesn't come. If he leaves, it is a small hole to fill, imo. We would still have 4 guards, and a 5th perimeter player in KJ if we needed him to play on the perimeter. Their won't be some gaping hole if he leaves and Langford doesn't come, so I don't think Self cares if he hurts any feelings.

I think it is worth the risk to just be straight up with Vick, because if for some reason he does come back, knowing he would be the super sub 6th man, that mitigates any potential chemistry problems. You just tell him, Langford is coming, and he is going to start barring any unforeseen events. We would love for you to stay, but we understand if you would rather pursue other opportunities instead.

If somehow we got both, good gosh almighty. It would finally give us a guy capable of scoring 20 coming off the bench. A luxury we haven't had in a long, long time. That would be the dream.

As far as Cunliffe goes, I would have to agree. He should have gone to a smaller school. It sounds like the staff lied to him and said he would get a lot of PT and took him mostly as an insurance policy. He was used and abused. I feel bad for the guy, but I could honestly see him being a key piece to a mid-major team that makes tournament noise in a few years. I wish him the best, he has seemed like nothing but a great teammate even through rough circumstances.

HighEliteMajor said:

Man, feel bad for Cunliffe. Should have transferred to a next step down program like ISU, or OU.

Forwarding to cyclonefanatic. :joy:

Cunliffe won't be a factor next year. He has been saying the right things but I won't be surprised if he transfers again. He still has a RS year to take*.

*He played two half seasons which each count as a full season of eligibility. The time off for the transfer however does not count as a redshirt, he just couldn't play.

Romeo probably won’t announce before the deadline to declare. If Vick and/or Newman declare, then it’s all clear for Romeo. And Romeo’s commitment makes it less likely either return.

@Kcmatt7 Agree, Vick is very replaceable. Even as a SR. Don't mean to bash. I wouldn't hate it if he came back but I don't see it. Iirc he has some kids, so he might just want to start cashing checks.

Athleticism shouldn't be an issue next year, leadership is needed. So Vick isn't the ideal Sr. for next season. Malik could be that upper class leader, but he's not likely to come back.

Bring on Romeo.

What about romeo’s Dad? Is he a problem?

@Crimsonorblue22 I'm sure that Bill knows how to handle these types of parents pretty well.

@Kcmatt7 Why would Vick be forced out?

BShark said:

@truehawk93 I'm confused by your list. Svi and Graham are seniors.

I'm just listing them for clarity and accounting.

RockkChalkk said:

JayHawkFanToo said:

@truehawk93

Svi and Devonté are seniors so they are gone. This leaves 13 players for the 13 (not 15) scholarships allowed. For Langford to join either Newman or Vick need to leave or maybe Cunliffe either leave or red shirt.

BTW, Doke is an Academic All-Conference rather than All-American.

Actually, i believe it leaves 14 players for the 13 spots. Did you count Lawson twice? As we stand now, at least one underclassmen must depart to have enough scholarships. If we want room for Langford, we need two to leave.

Lawsonx2 is both Lawsons

SkinnyKansasDude said:

I think Malik declares, Vick stays and Cunliffe either redshirts or transfers and we do sign Romeo. I think Matt makes a good point that if he was leaning towards Indiana or Vandy he would have committed by now. I also believe he’s waiting to see who leaves KU. I personally would rather have either Vick or Newman stay than Romeo.

No...if Malik goes, I want Vick gone too. Vick may pull one over on everyone and stay if Malik jumps. Malik sounded resolute in post-interviews after the Nova loss. He seemed like he had things on his mind.

Kcmatt7 said:

I think Vick is just going to get "forced" out. Or, really, the AWIII treatment. Self will tell Vick he is more than happy to have him back, providing he knows that he may very well end up coming off of the bench. From there, I think Vick and his camp will decide that he might as well leave and start making money now, because his draft stock is never going to hit potential first rounder at this point.

Someone will go and someone else will get squeezed. Vick has reached a ceiling.

@justanotherfan

I agree. I think Cunliffe is in the same boat as the big NAIA kid. Cunliffe, like CJ Henry (Southern Nazarene U, OKC), could go to an NAIA and be a phenom. Or he could sit the pine and get mop mins with KU, wasting paper.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

What about romeo’s Dad? Is he a problem?

Haha...only with UK and Calipari...love it.

@RockkChalkk

You are correct. I guess I was thinking that Newman is likely not coming back. On the other hand, if he does come back he and Dedrick would be All American candidates.

@Kcmatt7

Vick is a player wit a high ceiling. If he comes back and gets his act together he would be as good or better than a freshman OAD and he would see lots of playing time.

@Hawk8086 He isn’t as good as the player he is “blocking” and he seems to lack any good leadership qualities.

@JayHawkFanToo I don’t see this high ceiling. 3 years in and He seems like the same player he was when he got here. A skinny kid that doesn’t play hard on defense and is a streaky shooter with no ability to create his own shot. I don’t know what upside is really left because I don’t see that changing. Vick can’t dribble and doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. I’d rather have one of the best scorers in Indiana High School history who seems to have some
competitive fire and more potential than Vick if he truly buys in. Of course that’s my opinion, and I do understand why others would rather have Vick and an experienced returner instead.

Kcmatt7 said:

@JayHawkFanToo I don’t see this high ceiling. 3 years in and He seems like the same player he was when he got here. A skinny kid that doesn’t play hard on defense and is a streaky shooter with no ability to create his own shot. I don’t know what upside is really left because I don’t see that changing. Vick can’t dribble and doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. I’d rather have one of the best scorers in Indiana High School history who seems to have some
competitive fire and more potential than Vick if he truly buys in. Of course that’s my opinion, and I do understand why others would rather have Vick and an experienced returner instead.

Yeah, counting on Vick to get his act together/suddenly get aggressive seems like a sucker bet.

@Kcmatt7 I am in the same boat with you. - I like La Gerald but the thing is I think he is at his ceiling , I don't see him improving or at least improving that much to make it worth his while to come back for one more season. - On top of the fact with him about his ceiling why would he want to take a chance if he feels he is ready why take that chance of coming back risk possible injury like any other athlete does take that chance and possibly ruin ANY chance of playing anywhere for money whether it be the NBA or over sea's?

I feel pretty confidently that Vick & Newman are both gone as they are ready to start getting played for the ball skills whether it's in the NBA or abroad. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Langford is, right now, a superior pure three point shooter to both Newman and Vick. Langford is as big as Vick and bigger than Newman. Langford is probably on par with Vick as a ballhandler, with Newman being a superior ball handler. As a scorer, Langford and Newman are probably about even (maybe a tiny edge to Newman), with Vick behind those two because he doesn't create his own shot as much.

I can't guarantee that the combination of Langford-Grimes-Dotson will be as good as Vick-Newman-Graham, but from a raw talent perspective, the LGD group is better. That's just the facts. Those three freshmen are each better athletes than their experienced counterpart. If Langford comes, he's an upgrade from a ceiling perspective.

KU's struggles in the postseason have nothing to do with floor and everything to do with ceiling. KU had to be perfect to beat Villanova because it wasn't likely that Newman would drop 40 to keep us in it (only guy on the roster with that type of scoring ability). With guys like Langford and Grimes, they could just take over a game and go for 30+ to keep KU afloat. We need to have that risk element in there in order to win a national championship. Having the consistency is nice for the blood pressure, but it won't guarantee anything come postseason because as the rounds go on, you have to have the highest possible ceiling.

@jayballer73 makes a great point that Vick is never going to be a lottery pick. Vick is probably a second rounder at best, but his more likely route is the G League. If that's the route either way, he probably benefits by getting that process started now, rather than delaying it by another year.

Bossi came on a local radio show and predicted Indiana for Langford but also mentioned that Romeo's dad believes that Romeo "needs Self's coaching".

@BShark Just found it interesting that Romeo said the ONE thing that sticks out to him about KU was the success Coach Self has had with bigger guards. - You know Grimes is gong to be all up in his ear this weekend at the Jordan Brand classic - -Then him and McCormack both when they go to Oregon - -you would think can't hurt any - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

BShark said:

Bossi came on a local radio show and predicted Indiana for Langford but also mentioned that Romeo's dad believes that Romeo "needs Self's coaching".

Bossi…this is hilarious. IU is the biggest joke. If he was going to IU, why would he go to give them one last chance? Why go for one last visit? Just pick them if they are your choice. This tells me IU is out.
It’s down to Vandy and KU. KU is leading and Langford is waiting on the paper to sign.

Very similar situation with IU where they offered Romeo Langford's gf a full ride Volleyball scholarship...it may work but it's clearly desperate.

@Statmachine

Now, if Romeo breaks up with his GF, wouln't it backfire big time since he would want to be far away from her?...just sayin'

I hope Self redshirts Ochai Agbaji. Garrett will be too important for leadership. He is a much more athletic version of Releford. Hopefully we pick up Langford. Langford and Grimes will provide firepower. Garrett should work on his shots this off season and become a bigger threat. At least I hope he will make teams respect him more. Dotson should hold his own and distribute. I hope Vick tests the waters and then jumps.

Dotson, Garrett, Grimes, DLaw, and Doke

Moore, Garrett, Langford, Silvio, and DMac

Garrett, Langford, Grimes, KLaw, and Doke

Moore, Garrett, Grimes, DLaw, and Doke

Moore, Garrett, Langford, DLaw, and Meeotch

I agree but it's up to Agbaji. FR redshirts under Self have been pretty rare. Can't really count McLemore or Jamari since those were academic.

If Vick leaves there is that open spot for Langford, scholarship-wise, and no need for anyone to red shirt unless needed for extra development.

Red shirted players are still on scholarship anyway. So it's up to Agbaji if he is sure he wants to be around 5 years.

BShark said:

Red shirted players are still on scholarship anyway. So it's up to Agbaji if he is sure he wants to be around 5 years.

I think he should a la Landen. Landen knew he’d average under 5 MPG his true freshman year so he decided to trade a year of playing and it worked out great for everyone. Ochai will be 4th on the depth chart at the 3 behind Vick/Langford, Garrett, and Cunliffe. He can be a really good player years 3-5 like Landen was.

Agbaji has come on so strong over the last 18 months, I don't know that he needs to redshirt. His development curve has ramped up so quickly that I am not sure where to put him right now. A year ago, I wouldn't have even picked him to be an All Metro level player (not first team, anyway). He ended up being POY. Agbaji has absolutely exploded in the last year. He was probably only a three star player before. He's a good four star now, and trending upward.

I don't know if he will be a four year guy, or if his improvement will continue at this rate, but Agbaji could help next season's team, particularly if Langford doesn't join because Agbaji can shoot a bit.

Picked up another CB pick for Langford from a Duke insider.

@justanotherfan

His progression reminds me of Vick's. Garrett saw a big jump in his Sr year as well so that's another good comp. I'd rather see him compete and not shirt if he has a clear path to contributing.

@BShark The flood gates are going to open up I think.

@Kcmatt7 I'm fairly confident he is headed to Lawrence.

@justanotherfan At this point. I don't think Bill goes that route. Either you are good enough to compete or you will get recruited over and pushed out. Dog eat dog.

It isn't a graceful way of constructing a roster, but it has times where it is effective.

Well we just picked up another CB for Romeo - -by Jeff Ermann from the Maryland insider - - - gaining ground we are now like Vanderbilt 40% - -Indiana 35% and then us 25 % -in the past few days we have went from 11% - -to 16% - -to 21% and now like 25% - I'm wondering if something hasn't leaked

Langford's said the decision would come after these All-Star games. The last one is the 13th. He wants to announce at his HS gym, so it would be Monday at the earliest. But I would bet that it will take a day or two to put everything together with ESPN and the HS. So I would bet 4/18 at the earliest. He won't take or have any more visits either which I think bodes well.

kcb2009
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@kyle_byard
14m
14 minutes ago

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Replying to @BSpeaks_24 @FloHoops and 2 others
He canceled his visit to IU right after Newman and Vick declared. That’s no coincidence

@Statmachine - -ya I was curious - last I knew he was still going to visit IU for a final time. - -The thing is and it's just a thing I can't even remember who but the way they put it out was - -If Romeo on his commitment announcement had it like somewhere in a public setting where a lot of people could come then things for KU/Vandy might be better - -BUT with him saying it was probably going to be in his High School gym - just gives me a feel it's NOT KU - -more like Indiana being the one with him announcing in the hometown gym -staying home - - hope not.- -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Statmachine said:

kcb2009
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@kyle_byard
14m
14 minutes ago

More
Replying to @BSpeaks_24 @FloHoops and 2 others
He canceled his visit to IU right after Newman and Vick declared. That’s no coincidence

IU isn't the competition. There are people saying Vanderbilt is the choice. We will see.

I do believe he will pick KU.

Was told today to expect an announcement the first week of May and it’ll be KU. Not 100% sure of its reliability since the family has said late April, but we’ll see!

jayballer73 said:

Well we just picked up another CB for Romeo - -by Jeff Ermann from the Maryland insider - - - gaining ground we are now like Vanderbilt 40% - -Indiana 35% and then us 25 % -in the past few days we have went from 11% - -to 16% - -to 21% and now like 25% - I'm wondering if something hasn't leaked

Haha...oh it's leaking big time. The word is out. The "bird is the word" for Langford.

Read off a Romeo Interview he stated: - - That he was sticking to his three schools , Romeo said he was glad that Louisville had hired a new Coach but it was a little to late for him now.

Romeo's dad said that 10 schools had contacted them in the last month to see if they would be allowed to recruit Romeo on this late date , Tim Langford Romeo's dad said Romeo is so laid back and his dad was trying to maintain and he was so excited to see Romeo at the next level - couldn't wait to make his decision. - Romeo still says it will be after the all star game in Oregon - -which is on the 13th of the month - -Signing period runs from April 11th through May 16th.

As I troll through the boards which by one on here thinks that's just the ultimate no no as he said real KU fans don't do that took me to the shed over it - BUT I'm the rebel - so umm ya I'll continue to do so lmao - -as I get some pretty good tidbits - -anyways on the Hoosier.com - seems more and more of their fans are now starting to think yes- -Romeo will end up at KU - -hope it all ends well.

Oh just one little non related Romeo note. -- Read also from a Gary Bedore story that Penny wants to hire Larry to be an assistant at Memphis, would be very interesting - -hope all turns out well for Larry -- - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Larry coached Penny in the NBA, so there is a natural bond between them. Brown could be the gravitas that the Memphis coaching staff needs. You could have him as a non-recruiting coach, so he won't land you on probation.

@KUSTEVE

Penny is an unproven at the college level having coached only at middle school level and his hiring was based solely on his legacy status. I understand there is talk about hiring Larry Brown ↗ to bring gravitas to the program but I will guess most ADs would balk at that given Brown’s history and more importantly, Brown who has medical issues and will be 78 years old, might not be up to the daily grind and probably enjoys more visiting the various programs whose coaches are friends.

@JayHawkFanToo I'm sure if he was named as part of the coaching staff, he would probably get a title of "director of bb operations" or something, and be able to do as much as he could hold up to. Or, he might be there to simply help construct their offense/defense strategies. Maybe he isn't a coach game to game per se, as much as an architect laying out the blue prints for Penny to get him going the right way.

@JayHawkFanToo penny, I believe was the coach at Memphis east, winning 3 state championships.

KUSTEVE said:

@JayHawkFanToo I'm sure if he was named as part of the coaching staff, he would probably get a title of "director of bb operations" or something, and be able to do as much as he could hold up to. Or, he might be there to simply help construct their offense/defense strategies. Maybe he isn't a coach game to game per se, as much as an architect laying out the blue prints for Penny to get him going the right way.

The last report I seen was that Larry Brown turned the opportunity down

I watched a really good movie on Netflix titled, Amateur. A really good movie about a kid in 8th grade that gets caught up in the crazy world of young bball. In the end he takes control. It's a really good movie and must see.

Doesn't really mean crap but it's fun time with Romeo watch so mentioning that he retweeted this: 🐦 View Tweet

@KUSTEVE

If he gets any type of official position with Memphis, he would not be able to visit with Coach Self, Calipari or Yankovich which I believe he enjoys and he would also bring a great deal of scrutiny and attention from the NCAA which the program would not like. I think the talk is just wishful thinking.

has anyone seen alternate channel for the game Romeo is in? - -looks like this dam softball game is going to run way over

@jayballer73 Try ESPN news

I get why KU and Duke quit recruiting him but man, Emmitt Williams is a dawgggggggg.

Ya, well the commentators make a person wonder. - They say it's just going to come down where it's going to be the best fit for Romeo. They talk about it's been Indiana Crazy on Romeo - like with Damon Bailey 0 0and that Vanderbilt and Indiana had been considered the favorites but how you couldn't ignore a team with the Coach like Self.

They did say however with Grimes in the fold - -Dotson - - Moore and such if that might play into account wondering if Romeo would be able to come in and play like he wanted to be able to play. - They don't make it sound encouraging as I'd like - -MAYBE he does end up in Indiana , the way they insinuate with coming out and saying - sounds like they just don't think it would be a fit for Romeo & KU

@jayballer73 The commentators don't know their butt from their face. They said Duke was in the mix for EJ Montgomery when Duke quit recruiting him a few days ago.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

@BShark didn't even have room for Kansas on their chart

Romeo Langford said:

Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

Nice.:thumbsup_tone2:

Slater CB'd Langford to Indiana FYI..

@BeddieKU23 I wonder if there is any misdirection going on.

@BShark - -misdirection? - -how so?

@jayballer73 Remember when the Dotson camp had someone leak to Maryland that Maryland is the pick? That kind of misdirection.

@BShark

All the CB picks are from las year and pretty dated except 4 that are this month. Of the more recent 4 picks 3 are KU and 1 is Indiana.

I am not sure if the writers are just lazy and do not update their picks or believe their original pick are still correct. It could be a little plausible deniability in case the prospect picks someone else they can claim the selection was old and not updated. I wish CB would require them to re-select or confirm if the prediction is more than 3 months old.

@JayHawkFanToo When a recruit starts coming to an end I know they try to get people with old ass picks to get on and change them if needed. Doesn't always happen though.

@BShark umm kind of slow I'm sorry buddy. So you mean that maybe someone in his camp has leaked that he is going to Indiana? - - I'm sorry kind of slow today lol

@jayballer73 I don't know anything about the Indiana side of things.

@JayHawkFanToo Very True cause there are periods where you will see no movement for months - thing is people tend to think well there isn't any change looks like this guy - -that guy still solid with whoever , when actually might not be the case. Unless you have one of these guys make a NEW prediction the CB is going to remain the same. - Like you say it's a matter I feel that sometimes these guys just get a little lazy. - -Although with Slater picking Indiana has me a little concerned - he usually is pretty spot on

At this point, I don't think anyone knows anything. There are some educated guesses out there, but the family isn't talking.

@FarmerJayhawk You could very well be right. Fingers crossed for KU.

@BShark Vandy seems to be fading. Part of the appeal was EJ possibly going, and with that off the table, there's significantly less talent. Could all be a smokescreen and people grasping at straws though.

Romeo's explanation for what he likes about Kansas is a huge turnoff. Let me puke for a moment. With Vick and Malik gone, I guess we have a need. But this is the kind of OAD crap I'd rather just say go somewhere else. Just completely more interested in guys that want to play for Kansas. I know, outrageous thoughts.

“(KU coach) Bill Self's resume speaks for itself,” Langford said, as quoted by Flohoops.com. “His success with big guards … he’s good (with) people like Andrew Wiggins, Kelly Oubre. He got them better, sent them to the league. He knows what it takes to get to the league, so that's what I like about Kansas."

I hate it when anyone going to college tries to honestly express how he hopes it will help him in a career.

Yeah, he's majoring in basketball for a year. Self and co know the score here. The alternative is less talent. The sweet spot is recruiting NBA level players and having them stay 3 years like Wright and Roy.

Wright to the 76ers!?! Let’s start wild rumors to destabilize the ‘nova machine bwahahaha.

mayjay said:

I hate it when anyone going to college tries to honestly express how he hopes it will help him in a career.

Lol yeah I was excepting him to talk about Kansas' top-ranked African-American studies program and the incredible job market for kids with those degrees. And how basketball was just a tool to help him reach his academic goals.

@mayjay Of course, the honesty is not the issue. The truth of the matter is the issue. I love it when our team gets used for a season. When the focus of the player is not KU basketball, or what he can accomplish here, but rather inward, on himself. And using KU as an 8 month stepping stone. But hey, who cares, right?

@HighEliteMajor I would say his ambition to be developed by HCBS into a high caliber pro-worthy guard absolutely explains what he hopes to accomplish at KU.

But, wah wah, he isn't waving pom poms and genuflecting to KU tradition in his several sentences that you have decided define him as a possible KU player.

Don't worry. Soon players who are ready will go to the Gleague and players who have to develop before declaring will flock to the few programs who have a history of doing so. All of this one and done none sense will be over and KU will field teams full of upperclassmen. HURRAY.

@mayjay You do understand I agree he’s telling the truth, right? Maybe you don’t. He wants to accomplish getting to the “league.” I could not care less about the league. Hope you get your autograph.

@HighEliteMajor Basketball in college has changed, as have all sports, with the players' realization that they can leverage their ability into highly paid careers not dependent on their schools. It is, I think, both short-sighted and sad to not care about the players except for what they can do to make fans feel good. They are literally playing for their futures. I think it is part of what I appreciate about them to see how their ambitions work out in their lives.

@dylans Wright will be going to Duke as soon as Coach K retires. At least, Duke will go after Wright. Nightmare.

@mayjay it’s funny because most of the people who argue to not pay the players are also the most vocal about OADs. Instead of offering something that might make the best players stay and have a vested interest in the university, they want them to play 4 years for pennies when they could be playing for dollars.

@LSH Wright is no Spring chicken and he's fully capable of winning championships where he is. Why would Wright go to Duke?

Scheyer could very well be the next Duke coach.

Ah I've got fond memories of heckling Scheyer at two separate Duke games, one against UVA and another vs Virginia Tech. Of the roster that year, Scheyer was the least dislikeable; i'm ok with him at Duke. Singler, Nolan, Zoubek and Plumlee all pissed me off. Although, Scheyer was the proud owner of this travesty:

@approxinfinity

Money. He would get paid considerably more at Duke than at Nova.

@mayjay I care more about KU BB than an individual player. Do you even read what is typed? I DON"T CARE "ABOUT THE LEAGUE." That's what was typed. So, dishonestly change that into something that was not said, and making it into not caring about a player. You're a pro at that.

@Kcmatt7 Directed to payment of players, I do expect players to come to KU for no money (or whatever their stipend) and play for Kansas. That's actually the rules. Further, of course, they received significant financial value which has been spelled out many times. And, of course, the players DON'T HAVE TO COME. It's freedom of choice. They can choose their path. If they want to go pro, go pro. The NCAA and KU aren't stopping them.

BShark said:

Yeah, he's majoring in basketball for a year. Self and co know the score here. The alternative is less talent. The sweet spot is recruiting NBA level players and having them stay 3 years like Wright and Roy.

It is no failure for coaches to not be prescient enough to figure out who is good enough to become an NBA talent but not good enough in his early college years to be mid-1st round draft worthy (the no-brainer cutoff, I think, for anyone not from a financially independent family).

Economists provide lots of stats from which they make lots of projections, but there was one concept I retained from my way too many Econ classes: an opportunity cost is the same as paying for something. When a guaranteed 1st rounder stays in school an additional year, he is literally paying millions of dollars to attend (minus the value of the scholarship). When a player (realistically) sees himself as a OAD, he is anticipating being at that level and, like Langford, often discusses how hard he wants to work for that goal. Scouts and NBA teams will reward players who maximize their talent in that year by drafting higher. Such things can only help their school (provided the coach is demanding, not enabling, as LK did with Trae).

I was being sarcastic. There is something weird going on at Nova and UNC. Hard to believe they just magically find the pro level players that want to hang around college.

@HighEliteMajor Just don't be surprised whenever they go pro then. G League salaries are getting to the point where they offer more value than KU, and certainly way more real value.

That is of course if you believe KU isn't paying players under the table.....

@HighEliteMajor "@mayjay I care more about KU BB than an individual player. Do you even read what is typed? I DON"T CARE “ABOUT THE LEAGUE.” That’s what was typed. So, dishonestly change that into something that was not said, and making it into not caring about a player. You’re a pro at that."

I think it is well-known here that you are the pro at ignoring or diverting arguments that you cannot respond to, and repeatedly making ad hominem attacks on people who dare to defend their positions in the face of your attacks.

I did not ignore your continued braying that you don't care about the NBA. But this argument is about what these kids and the staff care about, not about your unrealistic desire for the sport to submit to your demands. The irrefutable fact is that the kids care about the league because that is their anticipated profession. The coaches care about how to help kids get to the league because that is how they prove to be successful in recruiting at the highest levels.

The kids care about their futures beyond the parameters of KU basketball. You say I dishonestly distorted your statement about caring more about KU bb than about individual kids--I think it is a fair inference to draw that not giving a hoot about their professional goals and financial security beyond the parameters of KU is not really caring about the kids as they really are rather than what they can do to keep you chest-thumping as a KU fan.

And you have been doing that for years. I recall specifically a time when you denigrated a discussion where several of us were praising a number of kids who won academic awards. And, finally, you proved it with all the attacks on Zach Peters you made when he left KU due to his concussion issues (accusing him and Self of dishonesty in his departure and later enrollment at Arizona). I gave you a number of chances to retract those accusations in subsequent years when I posted several articles discussing his retiring from college bb due to his concussions with UA continuing to honor his scholarship on an NCAA medical waiver. Nary a peep. So, yeah, I pretty much think you don't care about them beyond how they help you feel as a fan.

BShark said:

I was being sarcastic. There is something weird going on at Nova and UNC. Hard to believe they just magically find the pro level players that want to hang around college.

Jaybate conspiracy?>

@mayjay Well saying this with tongue in cheek here so please don't take this in the wrong fashion at all just me trying to keep light hearted - -just wanting to say that I'm sure glad to see that there are OTHERS that get into some what of a some what heated discussion - I was really becoming paranoid that I was the only rebel here lol. - good to see that there are others that have minor spats/squabbles - my statement here is in all in good fun so don't take any of this the wrong way - just me being a but like normal lol.

I will say one thing and I'm not all up on all of the different things and such but all I know is - - - what is the dream of every single wide eyed kid that comes to College and participates in the game? - -It's to help improve and develop his skill with the help of the staff, every kids lifetime goal is to Reach the NBA - that's their dream - their goal - and like you said they look at it as a potential profession - they don't really come here to appease us, that's not their responsibility -I mean sure they all want to be a favorite of the fan but the bottom line - their main objective goal is the NBA - not the fan - I don't blame them - enjoy them while their here - wish they did get more - some or more financial assistance while in school - I understand they have a full paid ride but their is other financial responsibilities while in school - I dunno you all know more then me but anyways - You stay to your guns your logic on this - Again just glad I'm not the only one that gets the pot boiling here at times - -love your pots/threads for sure.- - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@majay
1. To your paragraphs 3 and 4. I get it. Makes sense. This is about opinion though. To value judgments. To perspectives. Where it should have been in the first place, until your false narrative. Just discuss.
2. I know you try to take it somewhere it shouldn’t go – the stuff about trying to take a game where I want it to go. But I’ll bypass that. I have no control, just opinion.
3. I certainly respect the opinion that folks might think “caring” is largely (or at least in part) defined by whether they get to the league. That we care if we support that endeavor.
4. My value judgment, my opinion, is that I don’t care about the league. That’s my view. Do I hope our players succeed after college? Sure. But I view the “league” as fool’s gold for most every player here. Further, I think it cheapens the KU basketball. It is a bit of a poison that deteriorates the fabric of college basketball.
5. Most of us have the perspective of years. To suggest to a youngster to slow down, enjoy, the world will be there for you. The lure of millions is enticing. But it is also risky. Many try, and a large majority fail.
6. But I also will say “caring” about a player is not solely wrapped up in “the league.” Caring in my small mind, is wanting a player to embrace this university, to come to Kansas for KU BB, to become a part of our community, to make life long friends and connections, to grow and mature under the best coach in CBB, to take time to develop, to enjoy his college experience, to understand that it’s not just your first paycheck, but how long you get paychecks, to side on the side of patience, and to not come to Kansas looking forward to leaving, but rather, with an open mind.
7. In my opinion, my approach is more sensible in recruiting a player.
8. That said, all I’ve read on Romeo is that he’s a quality guy. But I’m not super interested in anyone that from the outset just wants to be here 8 months.
9. And @jayballer73, you’re right. They don’t come to KU for us. Sure, makes sense. But I’m much more “KU” than any OAD would be. I’m an alum, a professional degree, same with my wife. Kids that have gone through KU with degrees. Money paid. Money contributed. A lifetime of loyalty, much like many posters here. So, a part of me says I have a bit of a right to “expect” something from the folks that my tax dollars and contributions support, and I can be a bit judgmental there if I want to be. One thing I have always done is embrace the guys when they are on the court.

So, for those that prefer peaches and cream, just ignore my response to @mayjay below.
10. My statement: “He wants to accomplish getting to the ‘league.’ I could not care less about the league.”
11. Your response to me that I took issue with: “It is, I think, both short-sighted and sad to not care about the players except for what they can do to make fans feel good.”
12. My reply to your response: “I DON"T CARE “ABOUT THE LEAGUE.” That’s what was typed. So, dishonestly change that into something that was not said, and making it into not caring about a player.
13. Seems easy, doesn’t it? Your reaction is to try to create, once again, a false narrative. I never said I don’t care about the players. Not said, not even inferred. I don’t care about the league. Because I don’t care about the “league”, it is “sad to not care about the players except for what they can do to make fans feel good?” That is dishonest, whether you like it or not.
14. Not sure the purpose of paragraph 2, other than more diversion. When called out for obvious dishonesty, try to confuse the issue. But the judge ain’t stupid.
15. You seem to think when I don’t respond it’s some vast conspiracy. You’ve brought this up before. I can’t help you.
16. You refer to the Zach Peters deal. You just think you know. You miss the point – the point is why he left Kansas, not why he retired from CBB. Your response confuses the two. You say that I accused Self/Peters of hiding the real reason for his departure, and then you refer to posts you made of articles regarding why he retired from CBB.
17. If you would like to buy what you hear in print and assume that’s all there is regarding his departure at Kansas, that’s your choice. No one asked Self the direct question. No one asked Peters. They just let them talk. Which is fine, but that doesn’t mean it’s the entire truth. This is one of the few items I can tell you that I have a specific, reliable source of information. Believe the info or not, I don’t care. But logic supports my information, as well. You seem to think that this has something to do with why he stopped playing basketball altogether. The issue is why he chose to leave Kansas. That’s all I have ever offered on the topic. And he did not leave here just because he wanted to get healthy.
18. It is also entertaining that you use the inflammatory term “denigrating” when referring to kids winning academic awards, and how I may have referred to it. Not sure why this is relevant. All related to a discussion where you say “where several of us” were praising them (assuming you and others were giving the praise). Actually, it’s because I didn’t agree that it mattered. Praise all you want. It just isn’t something that matters a lot to me – a 3.10 vs. a 2.6 GPA.
19. I appreciate the term “braying.” Nice. It goes along with ranting, and other such terms you use to try to devalue the opinion offered, whether me, or someone else. At least the passive-aggressive stuff is pretty transparent.

@HighEliteMajor As usual, you proved my point about your attitudes. Thank you for that. I am done. Parse it however you wish.

I find the timing of this trash interesting. Why did they wait this close to Langford's announcement? Nice timing of someone trying to influence recruitment. I find it ironic. Adidas is suppose to influence recruits toward KU. But this article actually discourages him from KU. Haha...funny...I hope Langford and his dad sees through this shat.

I love it when you all fight about dumb stuff. All that matters is next year period. Does Langford make KU better next year? Yes! Does he move forward and promote KU in the future? Probably? Who gives a rip about what makes you all happy as alumni or fans? Selfs job is to field the best team possible. He has one opening to fill that puts KU in title contention. Who do you hire? The person that gives you the best shot at next years goal. Not 4 years from now goal.

@mayjay You flat make stuff up again and you’ll be pulling that point out of your backside a second time.

@HighEliteMajor Threats on this board? Again, proving my point.

@Statmachine Oh ya - -well your just a little stir stick lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@mayjay Whoaaaaaaa? - -was that a threat I read? - -uh oh - -time to lock the doors lol. - that was a little to much I think in all seriousness right? Damm man, maybe you just need to let this thing with him go man - move to next thread ya know? - keep posting your ok - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

You all liked Tarik and that was a 1 year deal. I didnt hear any of you bashing him or Self when Tarik came on for one year. Infact I have heard most everyone speak highly of Tarik. How does that work exactly? Grad transfer or OAD? God forbid a young man turn down his future and millions so that you can feel good about KU basketball?

@Statmachine I don't think "you all" is fair. Plenty here defend the choice of these kids to start getting paid.

You all know who you all are lol

@Statmachine You don't see me crying about Romeo or any other OAD'S. - -They are doing what they feel is best for them , it's THEIR life - it's their decision whether to play one or more then one. - -I enjoy them or while their here - would I like to see them stay longer? - -hell ya. - Am I gonna add a new vocabulary about them creating new words/phrases about them for leaving? - -Hell no. - -Again with OAD'S we know that's what they are when they come. - Why would anybody want to berate them curse them degrade them because of that when at the end of that year they did exactly what we knew they was going to do.

There are some here that lack comprehension about these teenage kids. - Tell me what is any major talented kid playing sports whether it's Basketball - - Baseball Football - what is their ultimate goal? - -They all have the same goals playing professionally right? - so you tell me even though they are OAD'S in Basketball should these kids stick around for four years to appease some selfish fans? - -or follow their dream to play what they love and get paid while doing it as soon as they can? - Some people feel like these kids OWE us something - these kids don't owe us jack squat -so no and not say your accusing me - but just saying I'm NOT one of those that that cry. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABUY

@Statmachine You don't happen to be from the South do ya? - - Y'ALL? lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Now that I have been in the South for almost a dozen years, "y'all" comes out unbidden even from my Yankee lips numerous times. But I plead that living here is like immersion in a foreign language--you pick it up rapidly.

It is quite handy when servers are talking to a whole table at once. I literally heard, a while ago, "Hi, y'all! I'm Lisa, y'all's waitress. Can I get y'all something to drink now, and come back for y'all's order?" No awareness she said it. Believe it or not.

mayjay said:

@jayballer73 Now that I have been in the South for almost a dozen years, "y'all" comes out unbidden even from my Yankee lips numerous times. But I plead that living here is like immersion in a foreign language--you pick it up rapidly.

It is quite handy when servers are talking to a whole table at once. I literally heard, a while ago, "Hi, y'all! I'm Lisa, y'all's waitress. Can I get y'all something to drink now, and come back for y'all's order?" No awareness she said it. Believe it or not.

Same here. I grew up in Kansas but I live in Texas. Just so y'all know..

Everyone has a preference and has the right to that. Selfish or not its their preference. Fighting about whos right or wrong is silly and slamming someone while justifying your opinion is even more silly and childish. Some of y'all look foolish but hey, if that's what butters your biscuit then get after it! I love getting on here to see what y'all are talking about. It keeps me in the loop, plugged in to KU basketball, and I appreciate each and every one of y'all's contributions!

Ain’t and Y’all make me cringe when coming out of young mouths.

dylans said:

Ain’t and Y’all make me cringe when coming out of young mouths.

It did for me until I was here awhile. I finally decided language, and I, should adapt to the desires of a populace rather than wage a fruitless fight based on archaic 19th Century prep school rules that do not provide an adequate songle word for addressing a group of people ("you" is better for individuals) or, for that matter, a gender neutral third-person singular pronoun ("they" is almost routine now).

@mayjay I really don’t have an issue determining if you is plural or single.

I certainly wouldn’t try to change a culture, just my own kids.

It’s like the old saying clothes make the man. Perception is important. It’s not everything as an enlightened person will look past initial impressions. However, many will not give you a second chance after that first impression. I don’t want my kids to have to cross any unnecessary hurdles, not being able to speak properly (doesn’t have to be every conversation i.e. kid to kid) or write correctly is a major hindrance.

I’m not one to think the southern accent makes one sound less intellegent, the dumb accent is trailerpark-ese.

Is North Carolina considered the south? I’ve never heard my cousins from there say y’all. My family in Arkansas sure does though.

@dylans I live in Chapel Hill now, and it’s definitely the south.

@mayjay lmao - - I'm not laughing at you here buddy - I'm laughing with you , I'm sure it's a whole different ball game.

It's just like many , many years ago when I was in boot camp our TI -that's what the Air Force calls the instructors instead of DI"S - -anyways he was breaking the different regions of the country and how we talked. - Like the Eastern and their accent - - -The South and yours lol - -and then when he got to the Midwest - he said we all had this drawl -I thought whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? - then he promptly did his imitation of each area - so ya I feel at. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Is valley girl talk still a thing? That was/is painful.

@Statmachine Hope Y'All -s doing okie-dok - down in that there Lone Star state. - -Never have understood that phrase - that mean you only have ONE measly LONE STAR lol. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@dylans NO you mean Young-ins mouths lmao - - Y'ALL need to get it right lmao

Romeo will announce April 30th

That's kind of like right here in Kansas. - Down in Wichita the have the Arkansas river that runs through there. - Here in Kansas people in Wichita and surrounding areas - -call it kind of like the AR - - KANSAS - then they have the little AR-KANSAS - but man if you go to the state - -definetly ARKANSAS River - either way you pronounce it somebody gonna be hot lmao. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@BeddieKU23 Do we really need to hear what his decision is? - Now before last night would of been more interesting- -but after these developments maybe not so much -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 its because Texas thinks it's it's own country. Thus the lone star (of 50) that matters. Oh and there is one star on the Texas state flag.

@jayballer73 I had a middle school English teacher ridicule me for calling it the Ar-can-saw river instead of the Our-Kansas river. I told her she was stupid. (That didn't go over too well, but the truth hurts sometimes)

Edit- I don't really care that much about the pronunciation of the Arkansas river. That's why I thought she was ridiculous. Jumping on a 13 year old over what amounts to your personal preference to mispronounce a word.

@dylans AMMMMM, You bad bad bad. -- lol

BeddieKU23 said:

Romeo will announce April 30th

Interesting timing to put it out there. Hope the recent news didn't effect anything. :/

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Romeo will announce April 30th

Interesting timing to put it out there. Hope the recent news didn't effect anything. :/

It didn’t. This has been the plan all along. I heard first week of May awhile ago but this is close enough. It’s a Monday, so basically the first week of May.

@FarmerJayhawk Man, if Self pulls off Romeo in the middle of this shitstorm...

@FarmerJayhawk Do you think we still have an Iron in this fire? - -I'm just afraid with these new things going down yesterday that it might be just enough to make him shy away from us - and land at Indiana - -I mean these things with the FBI is a big part of why he back off Louisville so why wouldn't he with us?

It will be interesting to see if KU's name pops up with any recruits or transfers between now and the 30th. It's been crickets and we know that spot is going to get filled with something

@jayballer73 Hardly. lol. That same teacher asked us what the nationalities of people from certain countries were. I.e. Russia -Russians, Spain- Spaniards. When she asked about Poland my buddy pipes up Polock. Apparently that'll get you detention. She was good at leading us to the noose.

@dylans LMAO - -that right there is some crazy stuff lol.- - gotta love it

jayballer73 said:

@FarmerJayhawk Do you think we still have an Iron in this fire? - -I'm just afraid with these new things going down yesterday that it might be just enough to make him shy away from us - and land at Indiana - -I mean these things with the FBI is a big part of why he back off Louisville so why wouldn't he with us?

Oh definitely. I don’t think it affected our chances much, if at all. The difference between us and Louisville is they were already in deep trouble because of the strippers, then the Bowen thing came out with Pitino knowing about it. Totally different from our case in that we had no idea Preston or Silvio’s people took money.

@FarmerJayhawk So very true , pretty much what another friend of mine said when mentioning Louisville.- I guess in this particular case I'm just over reacting some maybe. - - With that being said I think it has come down to a two team race for him - - then Ku & Indiana -- I think Vanderbilt has kind of faded, they thought it would be more enticing to Romeo if they landed EJ Montgomery along with Garland and I know this isn't spelled right but Shittu . Now that Montgomery signed with Kentucky - and I read somewhere that Garland had made the comment after the Jordan Brand game that he didn't feel near as confident about Romeo - makes me think it's KU or Indiana. - - - ROCK CHALK ALLD AY LONG BABY

jayballer73 said:

@FarmerJayhawk So very true , pretty much what another friend of mine said when mentioning Louisville.- I guess in this particular case I'm just over reacting some maybe. - - With that being said I think it has come down to a two team race for him - - then Ku & Indiana -- I think Vanderbilt has kind of faded, they thought it would be more enticing to Romeo if they landed EJ Montgomery along with Garland and I know this isn't spelled right but Shittu . Now that Montgomery signed with Kentucky - and I read somewhere that Garland had made the comment after the Jordan Brand game that he didn't feel near as confident about Romeo - makes me think it's KU or Indiana. - - - ROCK CHALK ALLD AY LONG BABY

That’s my thought process too. In fact, Romeo just said the FBI ordeal doesn’t affect his opinion or KU’s chances at all. I’m taking him at his word.

@dylans Is calling a teacher stupid one of those improper things you think is important to keep your children from thinking is okay? JK!

@mayjay ...if the shoe fits. But he'd be talking to his momma. The local school couldn't seem to keep him safe from peanuts and I didn't want to become a mass murderer after they killed my child. As a bonus he is now getting a top notch education. Massive improvements in math and composition.

@FarmerJayhawk Romeo said that? - -where did you see that at? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Romeo would put a nice bow on this stacked class. Charlie Moore, Dedric Lawson, KJ Lawson, Silvio DeSousa, Devon Dotson, Quentin Grimes, David McCormack, Ochai Agbaji. 8 or 9 talented new faces.

jayballer73 said:

@FarmerJayhawk Romeo said that? - -where did you see that at? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

In the story announcing his decision day. Here’s the excerpt, “Langford said that Tuesday's news involving Kansas in the FBI's investigation into college basketball won't impact his decision.”

@dylans That peanut thing is crazy to have to worry about. I don't envy you. My D-I-L's niece had to be monitored for 5 years after she reacted badly at 2. Now, recent testing (and retesting) has determined she is no longer sensitive, but we still check with her mom whenever we have all the kids over. Good job avoiding the mass murder thing.

@dylans immediate talent not blocking future talent, immediate talent not leaving after one season, and a couple of projects in that group. Some size, some wings, and what looks to be a great floor leader. I’d say one of Bill’s best jobs bringing in a group, if not his best job.

Coming from the www.Courier Journal. com site: - - Tim Langford Romeo's father said Tuesday he and his family would discuss together what Kansas being tied to the FBI'S case on corruption in College Basketball could mean for his son's impending decision.

Then the Courier says: - -It doesn't appear Romeo's feelings have changed about the School ( KU ) - -on Wednsday Tim Langford said he had no comment or update and it appears KU will remain a finalist until Langford announces his decision on April 30th

Meyer picked Indiana FYI..

We will be just fine without him. Better with him. But fine without. Definitely one less ego or helicopter parent around. If Doke comes back and we lose out on Romeo, I wouldn’t be shocked to see KJ start at the 3.

They are announcing at his HS and its open to the Public. This one is over reading the tea leaves

BeddieKU23 said:

They are announcing at his HS and its open to the Public. This one is over reading the tea leaves

This was always the plan though. I don't think it's KU because well yeah but this bit actually doesn't change anything imo.

@BeddieKU23 -- Are you saying the tea leaves say IU then?

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 -- Are you saying the tea leaves say IU then?

Yes.

As tight-lipped as they have been with this recruitment I can't imagine he stands up in front of his peers and desperate IU fans and goes somewhere else. That would be savage. Nobody knows for sure but it certainly seems to be trending their way. Good for them maybe they finish 500 in the Big-10 now

If that ends up being his choice, I will be a little butthurt just because he would have unnecessarily drug out his recruitment. I wonder what our backup plan for the 13th scholarship is. I really don't want to take a transfer unless it is Dedric or Newman level.

Why would he wait so long to announce if it was IU? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

@Kcmatt7

I agree.

If we lose this one I think its worse that Archie came to IU and then started recruiting the kid. Self was recruiting him a lot longer then both IU and Vandy's current staffs.

I think distance is a factor in this. With his dad (who's heavily involved to say the least) they seem to be all about keeping him close. There are some other details I think are making the difference as well but who cares if he's not coming here to bother listing them.

We'll survive without him if that's what happens but I do think he would have given us that x factor player on the court.

KUSTEVE said:

Why would he wait so long to announce if it was IU? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

It doesn't make sense. This is one of those recruitment's that makes you shake your head at the whole process.

@KUSTEVE Well he was the most talked about player at all of the All-Star games because he wasn't committed anywhere. So maybe his dad wanted them to ride the hype train.

@BeddieKU23

Also, a lot of pressure on an Indiana kid to go to IU. IU has had several years where they have missed on their top in-state prospects. That was one of Miller's major goals when he was hired, so I am not surprised that IU has put on the full court press. The last time Indiana signed the Indiana Mr. Basketball was 2011 (Cody Zeller). That's a long time for a program like Indiana to miss out on top in-state prospects.

Kcmatt7 said:

If that ends up being his choice, I will be a little butthurt just because he would have unnecessarily drug out his recruitment. I wonder what our backup plan for the 13th scholarship is. I really don't want to take a transfer unless it is Dedric or Newman level.

Grad transfer guard imo.

@BShark Yea I would think this team could use a sharpshooter.

Langford has to choose between joining a team where he would be the final piece towards a national championship or stay in Indiana and speed up the program’s rise to relevance which already took a big step by hiring Archie Miller, perhaps the best of the younger generation of coaches and one that will bring Indiana back to the top 20 in the next 3-5 years but an extremely long shot to being a title contender in the one year he will be there.

I still keep thinking how much of a d__k he would have to be to have all these IU fans come and still pick Kansas lol. That would be absolutely savage.

@Kcmatt7

Didn’t Alexander do something like that putting on the wrong hat and then switching it to the KU hat?

@JayHawkFanToo He did. And it was wrong. And the video's are absolutely hysterical lol.

Bragg announced and said Kentuck..I mean I'm going to Kansas. That was bad too

Now he's at his 15th school

@JayHawkFanToo

Indiana will be lucky to be 500 next season in the Big-10. Miller is a solid coach but he still doesn't have a roster built to compete. Langford will definitely fill a big weakness on the team though if he goes that route

Self seems to be really high on Agbaji.. Can see him being someone who gets himself on the court quicker then his ranking would suggest. Fits the need we have. Athlete, shooter. Good attitude

@Kcmatt7 my exact words to a friend of mine. - kind of sucks to lose out on him -- - -but like you said , we will be fine, we were fine before and we will be fine after. Just got to believe that this FBI thing is messing with this whole recruitment. - - Oh well. - -Now I'm not just saying this might sound like sour grapes BUT I don't think Romeo is going to help Indiana as much as their fans think he will- - gonna be a lot to carry - they have fallen off. - -I've just got a feeling that something has leaked and this is why we are seeing the movement to Indiana. - -I think he would have been better off being surrounded by other really good players but not gonna hate on the kid. - -Too I also agree about KJ - that is still going to make for a pretty formidable front line. - -Dedric at the 4 and then hopefully Doke at the 5 - and then KJ at the 3 - -& then McCormack quality minutes

I'm also thinking though with the unknown about Silvo's status - whether he is going to lose his amateur status - - or if he faces some suspension time - -I think this might effect the possibility of Mitch red shirtin this up coming season. - What ya think? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@HighEliteMajor The Tea Leaves and just about anything else too

@BeddieKU23 Exactly. - -If they think Romeo is going to carry them to the promised land then they are further in left field then what I thought. - - Not saying Romeo isn't an outstanding player and not hating but he really doesn't have much supporting him - a supporting cast. - -maybe to a little lesser degree of Trae Young - -act 2. - Hell they might even challenge for the Big 10 but if they are think oh bot National title? - - - umm ya -- OK lol

@jayballer73

His on-the-court contribution is just one aspect, the gravitas he brings to the program vis-à-vis future recruits might be an even bigger contribution.

Kcmatt7 said:

If that ends up being his choice, I will be a little butthurt just because he would have unnecessarily drug out his recruitment. I wonder what our backup plan for the 13th scholarship is. I really don't want to take a transfer unless it is Dedric or Newman level.

Somebody off the phog had mentioned this. They said well if Romeo doesn't come maybe we can land this guy - as people have said you know Coach is going to scour for that shooter.

So this name was brought up: - - His name was Jordan Brangers an NCJAA 1st team All American this past season from South Plains College, - - he made 151- - - -3's this season he shot 46% on the season from the 3 - said like the 2nd coming of Terry Brown - -set a record and made 10 3's in one contest - -I thought we ya - -hell ya. - -Then a couple of posters later said - -NOPE he had signed with an agent and skipping College - - DAMM lol

KUSTEVE said:

Why would he wait so long to announce if it was IU? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

I seriously think we were RIGHT there buddy - -he was right there for the taking. - It's just my feel that this whole fricken FBI probe was just enough to push him over the other way - -you put that with the pressure he is getting from local - and also have heard his daddy really wants him to go to Indiana

Well, if does choose IU after waiting this long, three possible reasons (or in combo)-
1. He's just a drama queen and loves the attention.
2. He just didn't need to commit. He could wait and make sure he had all possible info.
3. The new gift from the silly "investigation" was a factor.

@JayHawkFanToo Did you just say "gravitas" and "vis-à-vis" in the same sentence? You win vocab day.

@jayballer73

Juwan Morgan returning to them paired with Langford would be a nice 1-2 combo. Their big was hurt most of the year too. Solid 3 possible. Its everything else around them that's freshman and soph's unproven that's the issue. I have no idea who's their PG either.

IU fans are nuts, like really nuts and passionate. Langford probably benefits them more from a recruiting perspective more for the future. The in-state talent will start to respect Miller

@HighEliteMajor Agree. -- Sounds to me like Daddy is more of the Drama Queen. - loves the attention his son is getting/hype. - -Who knows could be Romeo actually did want to commit earlier and daddy said no - because of the attention - -I wouldn't put anything past these days

I think his dad said recently he wanted him at UNC. He also bashed Calipari and said his son would benefit from Self's hard coaching. He's certainly getting a lot of sound bites lately. Enjoying the 15 minutes of fame.

@HighEliteMajor

Seemed like the better suited words...:smile:

@BeddieKU23 We've got Cunliffe as well. The four guys getting the most minutes will be Dotson, Grimes, Moore, and Garrett. Then Agbagi, and Cunliffe. Not sure I see KJ as a 3, but ok...I'll grant that as a possibility, too. That is a really good stable of guards... the less talented guys have the most experience, so it works out quite well for us to bring along the rookies at a pace where they won't feel as overwhelmed by the college game. Another great factor we have going for us is that most guards pick up the KU system much faster than our bigs. It wouldn't surprise me if Dotson and Grimes end up being the 2nd and 3rd leading scorers by the end of the year. So, Langford or no Langford, I think this team will be really, really good at some point next year. UNC won a national title two years ago ( beating the 4 out Villanova team ) by stacking the box with simply a huge front line that teams simply had no answer for- a front line that dominated both ends of the court. And our front line will be just as stout, if not stouter. Right now, our team, with no one else being signed, is ...LOADED.

@KUSTEVE

Cunliffe that was in witness protection in chain shoes most of the season? I get the feeling Agbaji passed him on the depth chart just signing his papers to come here.

I think KJ's primary position is predicated on what Doke does. Can't see him being his brother's back up at the 4, there's definitely more minutes for him on the wing currently. If Doke doesn't return I can see the Lawson's being the next Morris combo..

I agree, I see Grimes & Dotson being our 2nd & 3rd leading scorers.

BeddieKU23 said:

Bragg announced and said Kentuck..I mean I'm going to Kansas. That was bad too

Now he's at his 15th school

I think Bragg legit wanted UK and didn't have a commitable offer. Jmo though.

BeddieKU23 said:

Self seems to be really high on Ogbaji.. Can see him being someone who gets himself on the court quicker then his ranking would suggest. Fits the need we have. Athlete, shooter. Good attitude

His ranking is going to go up anyway tbh.

BeddieKU23 said:

@KUSTEVE

Cunliffe that was in witness protection in chain shoes most of the season? I get the feeling Ogbaji passed him on the depth chart just signing his papers to come here.

I think KJ's primary position is predicated on what Doke does. Can't see him being his brother's back up at the 4, there's definitely more minutes for him on the wing currently. If Doke doesn't return I can see the Lawson's being the next Morris combo..

I agree, I see Grimes & Dotson being our 2nd & 3rd leading scorers.

It's Agbaji btw.

Agree on Cunliffe. KJ is a guy that should find minutes, regardless of if its at the 3 or 4.

"Coach (Norm) Roberts went to watch Ochai play a couple times and was really impressed. I had a chance to go see him in late January and thought he was terrific," Kansas coach Bill Self said. "I love his demeanor. He has a maturity about himself. He has a terrific frame and is an explosive athlete who can shoot.

"When we offered Ochai a scholarship, he jumped on it and that also excited us because you want to coach guys who are excited to be in your program," Self said. "I see him as a Travis Releford type. A guy that comes in and has the body to be a major college player. Ochai could be a high major defender early in his career and his skillset is such that I think he could be an immediate impact player for us. We're fortunate to get a player locally of this talent who possesses all the intangibles you want in a student-athlete."

“Defensively, he’s going to be able to guard multiple positions with his size and his strength,” said The Shiver’s Matt Scott, who saw Agbaji play for both Mo-Kan and for Oak Park this season. “He’s 6-foot-5ish and has a good, college-ready body. I think he’s ultimately going to be a really good college defender. His three-point shooting is much, much improved over the last year, and he’s very good about rebounding outside of his area, rebounding well for his position.

“Because of his size, he’s had to play down low at times, so he can score from all three levels: inside, medium range and outside,” Scott said. “His handle has gotten a little better, but his athleticism is really what has exploded over the last year or so.”

@BShark

Your right, I'm butchering his name already. Not sure where I got the O from

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Self seems to be really high on Ogbaji.. Can see him being someone who gets himself on the court quicker then his ranking would suggest. Fits the need we have. Athlete, shooter. Good attitude

His ranking is going to go up anyway tbh.

Hope so, his ranking is dragging our class ranking down. (Kidding of course)

@BShark

Probably did, too bad he didn't go there

@HighEliteMajor His dad ran the recruitment. I wouldn't necessarily judge all of the "dram queen" stuff on Romeo quite yet. By all other accounts, Romeo is a good kid. His dad is a character though...

There are rumors about a kid that is currently committed elsewhere that would decommit and change to KU if Romeo doesn't pick KU. No one is willing to say the name of the kid right now, for obvious reasons.

Well, let's narrow it down. Odds are it is a top 100 kid. And it has to be someone who hasn't signed yet.

OOH. OOH. I would bet on Bryann Penn-Johnson. I am 100% sure we offered him and he is only currently committed and has not officially signed. At least it doesn't look like it. There is guess #1.

Matt didn't even drop a hint if it was a guard or a post...

Kcmatt7 said:

Matt didn't even drop a hint if it was a guard or a post...

He isn't the only person this is coming from. Pretty sure it's a guard/wing.

Kcmatt7 said:

OOH. OOH. I would bet on Bryann Penn-Johnson. I am 100% sure we offered him and he is only currently committed and has not officially signed. At least it doesn't look like it. There is guess #1.

https://www.uwdawgpound.com/2018/4/11/17219970/bryan-penn-johnson-signs-loi-uw-washington-huskies-basketball-recruiting ↗

@BShark I am looking down the list, and anyone who is still committed sure seems like it would be a coup to swipe from.

Here is the list:

• Quinerley - Nova
• Elijiah Weaver - USC
• Khavon Moore - TTU
• Jarius Hamilton - Boston College
• Matthew Mayer - Baylor
• Jaelin Llewellyn - Princeton
• Tyger Campbell - UCLA

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

OOH. OOH. I would bet on Bryann Penn-Johnson. I am 100% sure we offered him and he is only currently committed and has not officially signed. At least it doesn't look like it. There is guess #1.

https://www.uwdawgpound.com/2018/4/11/17219970/bryan-penn-johnson-signs-loi-uw-washington-huskies-basketball-recruiting ↗

Strike 1.

ESPN needs to update their page. Horrible. Let me try again from 247.

@Kcmatt7 Taeshon Cherry hasn't signed. That would be filthy. Don't think KU made his final 8 though.

Then again...

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/asu/2018/03/04/top-asu-basketball-prospect-taeshon-cherry-expelled-high-school/393740002/ ↗

247s list:

• Taeshon Cherry - ASU
• Khavon Moore - TTU
• Jarius Hamilton - BC
• AJ Green - UNI
• Jermaine Harris - RIU
• Keyontae Johnson - Florida
• Devonaire Doutrive - Arizona

BShark said:

Then again...

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/asu/2018/03/04/top-asu-basketball-prospect-taeshon-cherry-expelled-high-school/393740002/ ↗

Yea pass. We aren't that desperate at the moment.

From the list, I would take any of those except the UNI commit and Cherry.

Keyontae Johnson is exciting af.

Rhode Island is Adidas I believe. So maybe Jermaine Harris is the most likely? Especially with his coach leaving.

Kcmatt7 said:

Rhode Island is Adidas I believe. So maybe Jermaine Harris is the most likely? Especially with his coach leaving.

Not sure how a big makes sense unless Doke or Silvio is out.

@BShark I don't either. Just trying to find a connection.

Landing any of those other players would be a freaking coup. Would be funny to land Khavon Moore. It would be Bill's "welcome to the conference" moment I think lol.

Kcmatt7 said:

Landing any of those other players would be a freaking coup. Would be funny to land Khavon Moore. It would be Bill's "welcome to the conference" moment I think lol.

Complete stud would take.

@BShark Agreed. Just the way it sounds, it would have to be a guard and someone who could step in right away and play. But Bill does Bill in the Spring.

@Kcmatt7 My first impulse was actually Jermaine Couisnard (kid is a KU fan) but he did sign with South Carolina yesterday.

@BShark Maybe it is someone who signed. But I just think that would be an NCAA mess.

@Kcmatt7 Well if a coach was fired the kid would easily be able to get out of it. Wonder how many of those situations there are.

Keyontae Johnson would make the most sense- Oak Hill, not signed yet..

I get the feeling it could be someone who wants to back out of their LOI..

@BShark

Harris at Rhode Island is the only one I could find.

Very curious to know who this mystery person is.

@BShark Ok ok ok.

Here is that list (this is assuming Jay Wright takes the Knicks job):

• Cole Swider - Nova
• Quinerley - Nova
• Brandon Slater - Nova
• Jermaine Harris - Rhode Island

That's it. So Jermaine Harris only one making sense here.

:joy: :joy: :joy:

I think it would have to be Harris or Johnson. Not sure why Johnson wouldn't want to go to Florida though. Unless he thinks he is OAD and thinks KU is the place you go to do that.

@Kcmatt7 I don't think he is OAD. Odd that he committed in Nov and didn't sign.

I'm honestly thinking Herro at this point. We reached out way back. But that was when Cal was telling the kid he would come in and start. Now, I don't even see how he plays.

He didn't go there to be the 5th or 6th guard.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/4/13/17231780/tyler-herro-keldon-johnson-tyrese-maxey-impact-quade-green ↗

Herro doesn't sound happy lol.

Jake Wojcik got his release from Siena.

https://247sports.com/player/xavier-johnson-45573253 ↗

Decommitted from the children of the corn today.

IU peeps still confident they are getting Romeo. Just passing along what they are saying. Apparently the coaches are confident as well

I would be too if I were them.

With that being said, I hope Bill gives them a call and asks the to be honest with him. It really wouldn't be fair to keep three programs in limbo for your own vanity. It would be different if it wasn't two weeks away and the transfer market didn't become this 2nd wave of recruiting. But it really is selfish to keep this info from the programs if you have decided already.

@Kcmatt7

I believe all the coaches have one last in-home visit to use. Whether Romeo will take in last impressions remains to be seen with two weeks left but I'd imagine KU and Vandy will be pushing for those visits to kind of get an answer one way or the other.

The confidence IU has looks comparable to the confidence KU had with Grimes and to some extent Dotson as well. I don't know whether any of that is comparable, just voicing the vibe I'm getting from all this.

We'll know soon whether Romeo wants to compete for a championship at KU, or mediocrity in the Big-10 or SEC

@Kcmatt7 I agree with you and see your point. However I don't think they will put it out - and that's BS I actually think the whole delayed announcement is more Daddy - he is loving the media attention. Could very easily be that Romeo has had his mind made up for some time but Daddy told him to hold off. If you get the chance you need to check that video out -man the kid has some talents. - -You can sure see High School basketball is really big in Indiana some of the crowds he was playing in front of for a high school game - -geez. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

What is the position where KU would need the most help if Langford goes elsewhere? I would think wing and a true shooter? I bet Tyler Herro is wishing he waited a little longer before committing to UK; he would be a perfect fit at KU.

@JayHawkFanToo Funny how wide open it looked for PT a month ago... I would say his family isn't happy.

It will be really interesting to see what happens if Cal does get Maxey to come and play in this class.

@JayHawkFanToo

You pretty much nailed it. A 3 point shooter with athleticism would be ideal. I think we need to find someone that can play immediately that can give us some of the things we were used to getting from Vick, Jackson & Selden before that. There's an element of athleticism missing IMO that KU likes to have for lobs and drives to the hoop.

Langford is both. Herro is 1/2.

Agbaji and Sam are both in that mold but unproven. Staff seems to like Agbaji but no clue if he'll be ahead of the curve to play minutes as a freshman. Garrett & KJ haven't proven to be consistent shooters yet but they give you a lot of other good things.

It's unlikely we are going to find a really capable option if its not Romeo. I guess it could pop up so I won't say it can't. Will be interesting

@Kcmatt7

Agreed. withe the recent influx of players to UK some of the earlier commits must be having second thoughts. It would be difficult for Herro to de-commit since he has done it once already. If Langford does not come he sure would have been a great fit.

@JayHawkFanToo Lol its funny, because I thought the fact that he decomitted before made it more likely he would consider it again.

BeddieKU23 said:

@JayHawkFanToo

You pretty much nailed it. A 3 point shooter with athleticism would be ideal. I think we need to find someone that can play immediately that can give us some of the things we were used to getting from Vick, Jackson & Selden before that. There's an element of athleticism missing IMO that KU likes to have for lobs and drives to the hoop.

Langford is both. Herro is 1/2.

Agbaji and Sam are both in that mold but unproven. Staff seems to like Agbaji but no clue if he'll be ahead of the curve to play minutes as a freshman. Garrett & KJ haven't proven to be consistent shooters yet but they give you a lot of other good things.

It's unlikely we are going to find a really capable option if its not Romeo. I guess it could pop up so I won't say it can't. Will be interesting

I found the player you are looking for

https://247sports.com/player/quentin-grimes-91195 ↗

@BShark

Can we clone him and get double the pleasure?

@BShark

Your right he's one. I'm expecting him to start at the 2 Guard position. Who's the wing player? I know Marcus is the "guy" but we need much more from him shooting wise.

Adding another quality guard/wing would really help. Not sold on Cunliffe at all. Think we might see some Moore at the 2 with Grimes at the 3.

Romeo Langford is a decent kid and a good student. His plan all along was to wait until after the year so he could concentrate on school and his final year of basketball. It was nothing more than that. Part of me kind of would respect him more if he picks IU. That means he is up to being the man and trying to carry a team. I'm sick of kids acting like coward LeBron and teaming up. Do your own thing and own it. Having said all that, if he picks Kansas I wont complain.

This dang millennial generation and their choosing to win... It's annoying.

@BShark i doubt it moore is a pure 1 grimes is much more versatile he can actually play either shooting guard or point guard

Seen this from another poster off another site - -makes some sense. I'm not saying I really put a lot of worth , but could be logical as he brings up another example of the Romeo commitment gives an example, he says:

Some people feel that since Romeo is announcing in his High School and it's open to the public that it is a done deal he is going to Indiana ( Myself I don't feel this way necessarily ) but he says a lot do. - Now the Indiana fans well hell ya they making statements such as well with it being open to the public and thousands going to be there he would be nuts to announce somewhere else - - Really? - we shall see although I do believe he goes there. Anyways the poster brings this up.

He says how quickly we forget the Harrison Barnes scenario. Born and Raised in Ames Iowa - - practiced with the Iowa State team for years. - -He had his announcement at his High School in Ames , and invited everybody/everyone to attend, a ton of Iowa State people there and the High School band played the Iowa State fight song before his announcement - - - Then he skypes in Roy Williams and announces his commitment to UNC.

So just because he is making the announcement in his High School with all these people doesn't mean 100% he is gone to Indiana contrary to what some people think - not saying this will be the case but until he says I'm going to Indiana - - - Open game

The like he said in his post he says and let's not forget the Alexander/ IIllinois fiasco. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Rivals has Romeo #6.

Little up to #2. Burger Boy game jump

Grimes #8, Dotson # 18, Dave #33

ReggieKansas said:

@BShark i doubt it moore is a pure 1 grimes is much more versatile he can actually play either shooting guard or point guard

Nah, Moore is a combo guard at best. Being small doesn't make you a PG. In fact size doesn't effect position at all. Ben Simmons is a 6'10'' PG in the NBA.

BeddieKU23 said:

Rivals has Romeo #6.

Little up to #2. Burger Boy game jump

Grimes #8, Dotson # 18, Dave #33

Not surprised. Little balled out.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Rivals has Romeo #6.

Little up to #2. Burger Boy game jump

Grimes #8, Dotson # 18, Dave #33

Not surprised. Little balled out.

Posted in the other thread. Agbaji up to #141

@BeddieKU23

I would have hoped he would be top 100 by now considering the year and awards he had as well as the offers from big time programs.

@JayHawkFanToo

It's probably where he belongs. If he is anything like the coaches think he will outplay his rank in time

BShark said:

Nah, Moore is a combo guard at best. Being small doesn't make you a PG. In fact size doesn't effect position at all. Ben Simmons is a 6'10'' PG in the NBA.

How many 5'11" centers are in the NBA?

@Statmachine

Anything is possible. Keep in mind that 5'6" Spud Webb won the NBA Dunk contest as did 5'9' Nate Robinson...not once, not twice but three times.

Statmachine said:

BShark said:

Nah, Moore is a combo guard at best. Being small doesn't make you a PG. In fact size doesn't effect position at all. Ben Simmons is a 6'10'' PG in the NBA.

How many 5'11" centers are in the NBA?

None but that doesn't mean 5'11'' players with a center only skill set don't exist. It's all about the skill set a player has. True center is a dying position.

Hearing quite credibly that Vandy is pretty much out. KU or IU.

@FarmerJayhawk I've been feeling that for quite some time now. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Uhhh so the latest rumor is that Self paid Romeo a visit while he was in Louisville yesterday.

@FarmerJayhawk :handbag: :droplet: :eyes:

FarmerJayhawk said:

Uhhh so the latest rumor is that Self paid Romeo a visit while he was in Louisville yesterday.

How is everyone interpreting this? I'm not sure what to think.

BShark said:

@FarmerJayhawk :handbag: :droplet: :eyes:

Referring to Slater's tweet?

@BeddieKU23 I was joking that Self was doing such activities at Romeo's house.

@FarmerJayhawk umm not sure how he could of done that. As we are in the quiet period right now and Coaches can't visit recruits have in homes or at their high schools. - Only contact they can have now is either through the mail or over the telephone - - unless it would be on KU campus would be the only other way.

Self met with Bassey this week so there has to be some way to get around it. The Langford’s are denying it, so could just be someone assumed Self was in New Albany too when visiting Bassey

@jayballer73 i paid a visit to his house and now im coming to yours

@ReggieKansas lmao - -your just an idiot lol -you don't know where I live lol - -BUT I do know your woman's number lmao

I asked again today and a guy I trust still is saying it’s done to KU.

@FarmerJayhawk what percent do u say ?

FarmerJayhawk said:

I asked again today and a guy I trust still is saying it’s done to KU.

If that's true, that will be one salty gym in some place in Indiana on the 30th.

I know @BShark and myself said we would do cartwheels and backflips if it was another recruit who landed at KU but I'm fully on board for doing one if Romeo signs with KU

You can? I'm impressed, you have to tape it, or it didn't happen!👀

Crimsonorblue22 said:

You can? I'm impressed, you have to tape it, or it didn't happen!👀

As long as I can have 911 waiting by to take me away of course

🚑

ReggieKansas said:

@FarmerJayhawk what percent do u say ?

I honestly don’t know. If I had to put numbers on it I’d say something like 65/35 IU but that’s just my gut.

@BeddieKU23

Do we have an Injure Reserve List in this Forum? It might be a busy place...:smile:

Also, the family may deny the meeting, but I heard this afternoon that Self and the family did make contact while Self was in the area. Another source told me it was to give a commitment.

@FarmerJayhawk then why the 65/35 Iu?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@FarmerJayhawk then why the 65/35 Iu?

Just because a lot in the IU camp feel so certain.

@BeddieKU23 I would love almost pay to see you two do that - - - -I said ALMOST lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

FarmerJayhawk said:

Also, the family may deny the meeting, but I heard this afternoon that Self and the family did make contact while Self was in the area. Another source told me it was to give a commitment.

:pray:

@FarmerJayhawk but u said u think hes commiting 2 ku tuat doesnt make sense

ReggieKansas said:

@FarmerJayhawk but u said u think hes commiting 2 ku tuat doesnt make sense

He said a source told him that Self got a verbal. It's weighing that source, how much he trusts that source vs other info.

ReggieKansas said:

@FarmerJayhawk but u said u think hes commiting 2 ku tuat doesnt make sense

They said that. My gut still says IU. Yes, it’s cognitive dissonance. I’m listening to a bunch of stuff out there, which is really common in late recruitments. It’s even possible Romeo changes his mind day by day so info comes out that he’s leaning one way, but he may change his mind. It’s an ebb and flow kind of thing.

@FarmerJayhawk i feel u on that

BeddieKU23 said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

I asked again today and a guy I trust still is saying it’s done to KU.

If that's true, that will be one salty gym in some place in Indiana on the 30th.

I agree. To announce for KU in front of all of those IU fans.....what a scene. Which is why I think it is IU.

@BShark also do you really believe your source?

I'm STILL trying to figure out how Self could of talked to Romeo yesterday or got a verbal from him yesterday when we are in our dead period when Coach can't have any contact - which runs for 3 months unless Romeo was on the KU campus. - only type of contact he can have right now is if he would be on the Ku campus - or via a letter - or telephone contact. - He can't go see Romeo at his high school - he can't go to Romeo's home - things that make you go hmmmmmmm

@jayballer73

I think we are in the quite period not the dead period.
There are two evaluation periods in April 20–22 and April 27–29.

http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/resources/recruiting-calendars ↗

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017-18DIREC_MensBasketballRecruitingCalendar_20170619.pdf ↗

@jayballer73 the 18th (when this apparently took place) was in a recruiting period, so it’s totally fine to meet.

@jayballer73 romeo inboxed him on direct messanger on facebook

@wilson The only kind of contact that they can have now for 3 months as I just read this in an article is they can Mail him - - Talk to him on the phone or him come to the Campus - no visits at his High School person to person - - or no in home - this period they are in now last for 3 months it said

@jayballer73

the 1st link I sent you explains the different periods, the second link is a calendar of when the periods are.

you are correct face to face on campus only, that's the quite period.

Just thought I would put this out now. - -I'll be having a open crisis hot line the night of the 30th Announces for Indiana - -we will have people standing by to try and talk you through and to let you know we gonna be Fine - even WITHOUT ROMEO lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 just a thought u can cry on my shoulders and admit u were wrong when he announces kansas lmao!!!!

Looks like it's done to Indiana. Mystery recruit time!!!

@BShark says who?

@ReggieKansas

Evan Daniels put his pick on Indiana. Usually reliable sort

@BeddieKU23 on 247? I still think langford is gonna zig when everybody things hes gonna zag

@ReggieKansas

It wouldn't be the first time (Ayton) for example and others.

I like your optimism. If your right we will all be doing a little dance in celebration

BeddieKU23 said:

@ReggieKansas

Evan Daniels put his pick on Indiana. Usually reliable sort

Yeah Daniels only puts in his pick when it's over.

http://d1vision.com/malik-hall-recent-offers/ ↗

Doesn't look like KU is going too hard after Hall.

@BShark Meh, fine with that. That article made it sound like he was a Spring commit and will be waiting out everyone and seeing where he can go to start immediately. Not sure that opportunity would exist here for him.

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark Meh, fine with that. That article made it sound like he was a Spring commit and will be waiting out everyone and seeing where he can go to start immediately. Not sure that opportunity would exist here for him.

You mean Hall? KU is definitely in on better targets. If he is really waiting until next spring he's the kind of guy you keep the fires warm on while seeing if you strike out on Achiuwa, Lawson, Jalen Wilson and Josh Green.

Hell depending on development maybe you take Sam Williamson first too. And I'm not sure where Leech is at after his bad injury or even if he is still playing basketball but if he healed up okay he is an intriguing prospect too.

@BShark Oh I agree. I think you stay in contact. But yea he said he wasn't committing until the end of next season in that article, unless I'm going crazy. If that is the case, I think we can get back in on his recruitment pretty quickly if we strike out in the Fall.

@Kcmatt7 You are right. Once I saw KU wasn't involved in the article I skimmed it.

@ReggieKansas you just remember to have MY STEAK ready lmao. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@ReggieKansas Reggie - - - Reggie - - Reggie - - haven't we had this discussion many , many, many times when you have called me and we have talked - -time to put the pipe down man and slowly back away. - - This one recruit is not doing to destroy this program- - we were fine before Romeo - and we will be fine without Romeo. - Time to hoist the anchor --that ship has sailed buddy - time to focus on 2019 recruits

@BShark I've been hearing a lot about this Green kid - -people saying he is a stud.- fill me in what position does he play? - -Was he the PG ? - -just curious. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

jayballer73 said:

@BShark I've been hearing a lot about this Green kid - -people saying he is a stud.- fill me in what position does he play? - -Was he the PG ? - -just curious. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

He is a large guard/wing.

Wondering if the mystery player might be Jaycson Bereal.

@BShark Would be funny. His pinned tweet is "In case ANYONE is confused/Doubtful, I am 300% committed to Boise State"

jayballer73 said:

@BShark I've been hearing a lot about this Green kid - -people saying he is a stud.- fill me in what position does he play? - -Was he the PG ? - -just curious. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Won't be in College long. Plays at IMG where Silvio was before he came to KU. His size and wingspan make him an ideal SG at the NBA level. Did well at the Nike Hoop Summit recently. KU has been on him for a while. UK involved now as well. Elite wing

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark Would be funny. His pinned tweet is "In case ANYONE is confused/Doubtful, I am 300% committed to Boise State"

Yeah I don't think that means crap if he could come to KU lol.

@BShark Lol oh I'm sure. I just thought it would be a really funny tweet to have to take down.

So no Langford?

@chriz Sure isn't looking good.

Can't be mad at a kid for staying home. Just always feels like we miss on that one piece that could push us over the top.

I’ve heard some KU chatter lately. Apparently he’s made the decision though.

@FarmerJayhawk I feel what your saying and understand for sure. - Yet like a friend told me as much as we feel that it's a done deal for Indiana you know - -we can't say as they say never say never. Cause there is no one that knows 100% for sure - -all guesses -even the so called insiders/ones suppose to know - - Meyer - -Daniel - -Slater they don't know - their guessing just like everyone else. - Only Romeo knows for sure - -no one else which is right. - No one can say 100% just going on the he said/she said/they said - -like I said do I still believe he lands at Indiana? - -ya probably so - -BUT the statements made by the Langfords in the article made me do a little double take at the least. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Well Matt is gone from 247.. Nothing gained nothing lost.

One poster really doubling down on saying its KU. Same one that was right on Grimes/Dotson.

Man monday is going to be something

@BeddieKU23 Ya I know the one your talking about. - -Seems like he has a little knowledge. At least like you said he kept saying Dotson/Grimes - -Dotson/Grimes to KU. - -I'll just say it's not going to floor me if he announces to Indiana - -but we just can not say 100% for sure at this point - -there maybe some hidden thing we just don't know. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

jayballer73 said:

@BeddieKU23 Ya I know the one your talking about. - -Seems like he has a little knowledge. At least like you said he kept saying Dotson/Grimes - -Dotson/Grimes to KU. - -I'll just say it's not going to floor me if he announces to Indiana - -but we just can not say 100% for sure at this point - -there maybe some hidden thing we just don't know. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Yeah, this person has consistently doubled-down every time. Now saying he's known for a month..Grimes/Dotson those weren't ground breaking news, KU was favored almost every step of the way for both. Hard to compare what he's claiming to them.

With Romeo it certainly seems as though IU has the inside track. We will certainly know in about 3 days if there's anything to get excited about. I'll be glad its over as I'm sure everyone else will be who's followed this long-dragged-out recruitment.

Lol, there's no way this has been done for a month.

Everyone check this out, my friend going to sending an article that's got more interesting things just anytime check it out - -he gonna send the link

jayballer73 said:

Everyone check this out, my friend going to sending an article that's got more interesting things just anytime check it out - -he gonna send the link

Were is it

Kansas feels good about landing Romeo. Not clear if they really know, or just like their chances.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Kansas feels good about landing Romeo. Not clear if they really know, or just like their chances.

I think they like their chances

@JAYHAWKFAN214 how do u know this? Who said it?

Has Stumpy joined Archie's staff in Bloomington?

If yes, maybe the FBI and DOJ should check The Stump's cell phone for calls regarding Langford.

Can't be too careful.

Wouldn't want IU to be a victim.

I think I’m going to call it. Romeo to IU.

Me too. Romeo to UMKC. He thought he was signing to UMBC but was slightly off.

FarmerJayhawk said:

I think I’m going to call it. Romeo to IU.

Sweet that's really been the case for weeks maybe months

BeddieKU23 said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

I think I’m going to call it. Romeo to IU.

Sweet that's really been the case for weeks maybe months

Since the family sat down and made the final choice yesterday, that would be not accurate.

@FarmerJayhawk so from you are hearing the decision was made yesterday for IU? Done deal?

I heard it was between KU and IU a week or so ago but nobody is saying KU now. The coaches haven’t been informed yet as far as I know, but I’m 99% sure it’s IU.

Oh, I think he's going to KU. A guy told me.

Oh, I think he's going to Vandy. A guy told me.

Oh, I think he's going to IU. A guy told me.

Ok

@FarmerJayhawk

Of course but the decision hasn't really felt in ku' s favor for a while so that was the real point of my post.

@FarmerJayhawk

Thanks for keeping us informed along the way.

Crazy how much pressure Indiana fans put on him to play for a 500 team

@BeddieKU23 no problem. This late it’s always fun to post everything I hear just because it’s so chaotic. I so want to see the meltdown if somehow Romeo picks us.

I watch trends. I talk to recruits. I talk to players. I talk to active members on the team. All indications are KU. He knows he gets to step in and start for the preseason no1 team in the country. No competing for starts and he knows Coach Self has been successful with similar guards.

Grimes and Langford have long been viewed as a package deal. With KU's entire backcourt departing it makes it an easy transition for Langford to step into. His family have said it was a business decision all along. When you are making a business decision you go where you will get the best training. Out of the 3 schools KU is the best decision. Langford has always wanted to play with the best. Go look about how he was trying to pair up with other top guys clear back in October 2017. He and Grimes have taken pics together recently. He is not just stirring the pot by tweeting about playing with Grimes. He really wants 2. There will be some upset IU fans tomorrow.

@Statmachine hope you’re right man. I don’t think anyone knows 100% right now. We’ll all find out tomorrow evening.

I have been reluctant to actually say anything unless I was really sure. You can go back to Diallo's recruitment and see that I scooped him better than the media. I said moments b4 he announced that he was active on his fb and it will happen any second. I called Wiggins too. I am not tooting my own horn as much as I am just telling yall that I am confident its KU.

@Statmachine

I believe it is safe to say that all of us here hope you are right this time. I would be very happy if he commits to KU but only slightly disappointed if he does not; fortunately this is one time when KU will be fine regardless.

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 no problem. This late it’s always fun to post everything I hear just because it’s so chaotic. I so want to see the meltdown if somehow Romeo picks us.

Oh that would top any previous one for sure.

Well it's like I said a few days back after reading the latest out of the Indy Star. I then said at the time before I read that I was 100% totally finally convinced that is was a wrapped and sealed deal just waiting to be delivered to Indiana. Then AFTER I read the article I said I still believed he was going to Indiana but I had wavered on my confidence about that and I was like at 85% - -to 15 % KU.

Now after reading this morning's article - - - I know , I know , I could and probably am just trying to read to much between the lines I understand why you might think that BUT: - - -I guess I can do that so here is the thing guys - - Like a poster off the Phog said after people read the article that wavered me said then - - -Doesn't the statements made by Romeo and his family then almost sound like they were trying to brace the Indiana fans for a let down with the statements made?

Well this morning's statements made by Tim Langford just almost reinforces that yet AGAIN. I mean if you really look at what he is saying here , could very easily I think be bracing them for what's to come

Tim Langford said the plan was for them to sit down and discuss about his thought sand the 3 schools , but that they really hadn't had much time to do that. - -He said he actually thought that Romeo had made his decision some time last week.

The thing is with what Tim Langford says here , It just makes me stop and think hmmmmmmmmmmm ? what is up? something sounds ummm different. - -Tim stated: He said he HOPED that everyone in the New Albany High Gym would be pulling for Romeo above all else. - - OK thing is if Romeo is 100 % sure he is committing to Indiana why would his Dad even bother to make that kind of statement? - - Sure in the hell won't be finding to many KU fans in the New Albany Gym tonight for the announcement. - So of course the Indiana fans would be pulling for Romeo , he going to Indiana there isn't even any need to make that statement..

Then Tim Langford says My thing is , IF it's not IU (which ) I don't know for sure if it's them or not, IF they're truly Romeo fans , there's a difference between the Schools fans and my son's fans -- - he said and when it's all said and done. -Who's really a fan for my son? - - Who's really a fan of him? - - My take from that statement? - -Sure sounds like again he is bracing the IU fans possibly and saying a - -HEY if your a true fan of Romeo then your going to pull for him no matter where he goes.

You put that together with the statement they made previously about just because it was at the New Albany Gym was more about showing their appreciation of the fan support for the past 4 years - -NOT about where he decides to go - -It's a courtesy to the fans. - -I just don't know for sure right now. - I wouldn't want to have to lay money either way - -KU - -or IU? - - I won't be shocked either way at this point. - I'd say I think he still lands at IU BUT my confidence is melting and - QUICK I'd probably say now 60% Indiana - - 40 % for the good guys - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Lol. It's Indiana and I'll be interested to see who KU goes after once it's official.

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Yupppppppp

@BShark yup just saw that - Thanks Debbie Downer lmao - I got it off the phog - typical Monday Morning -- well goodie another grad transfer lol

jayballer73 said:

@BShark yup just saw that - Thanks Debbie Downer lmao - I got it off the phog - typical Monday Morning -- well goodie another grad transfer lol

Have we had a grad transfer besides Tarik Black? Worked out okay.

Cremo is as good as you can ask for. 45% trey gun last year (42% for career) when KU needs shooting next season plus he will be 22 before he would play a game for KU. I hope we can land him over Nova!

Also has the added benefit of the scholarship situation working the same way as adding Romeo would have (just one year).

@BShark Just the ‘stache as far as I can recall.

Matt Scott just changed his CB to Indiana. IT'S DONE FOLKS.

Cremo is a good player. He doesn't move the needle for this team if he signed with KU however he would have a specific role that can be useful.

I cannot stress enough the difference between landing a Top 5 talent such as Romeo to a grad transfer from the American East conference.

If Cremo is the best option for a year, that's fine. We have a need for a shooter.

@BShark

It ain't over until it's over.

Remember DeAndre Ayton was just about 100% KU (with one vote to UK by a UK writer) and yet he ended up at Arizona...although money might have played a part on that.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@BShark

It ain't over until it's over.

Remember DeAndre Ayton was just about 100% KU (with one vote to UK by a UK writer) and yet he ended up at Arizona...although money might have played a part on that.

Cremo visit info doesn't get out if Langford is coming to KU, imo. Coaching staffs were informed over the weekend so the timeline makes sense here.

Matt Scott has KU colored glasses so whenever he finally changes his pick OFF of KU, I'm listening.

BeddieKU23 said:

Cremo is a good player. He doesn't move the needle for this team if he signed with KU however he would have a specific role that can be useful.

I cannot stress enough the difference between landing a Top 5 talent such as Romeo to a grad transfer from the American East conference.

If Cremo is the best option for a year, that's fine. We have a need for a shooter.

Yeah, perfect as a one year addition after already getting PT at a smaller school. Not a guy you want to have to break in and develop yourself. The whole grad transfer thing is kinda sleazy, but KU might as well use it.

@BShark ya for one we had mustache boy that was a waste of our time ran like a stripped ass ape when found out things wasn't going his way, - -Pretty funny though - -Grad transfer from Albany -Romeo - New Albany High School love the connection - and yes I know they are not the same - juast saying

I'm still on board with there is nothing wrong with holding on the scholarship other then passing it out to a average Grad player for one year. - -Ya Romeo is a one and done - but not even close to the same - giving that out to an Elite OAD or if you miss handing it out to a good or slightly above average Grad Transfer. - Like so many of others have said it is NOTA a must that we use the scholarship - were going be fine without feeling we need to use it - I'll go to my grave feeling if it isn't that perfect fit then don't use it - some people here act like were desperate to fill that 13th spot that's crazy

I actually think IU has the worst chance of the three. Romeo has shown he wants to play with a good PG, which is smart since he wants to be able to showcase his skills as a 2 guard. Indiana has the worst PG situation among the three finalists.

Garland and Dotson are both better than what Indiana has. Langford played with a very good HS backcourt mate (another D1 recruit, although to a midmajor). Once you have played with a talented PG as a wing guy, you don't want to give that up. The quality of shots he will get at KU or Vandy will be better because of Garland or Dotson than what he will get at Indiana. That's a huge factor from a "business decision" standpoint.

He can take Malik Newman's situation as an example. Newman went to Mississippi State with a poor PG situation. He shot poor percentages and was too often asked to shoulder a lot of the burden both from a scoring and from a playmaking standpoint. Newman comes to KU, and once he figures out he doesn't have to make every play on the offensive end, explodes and turns right back into the player he was coming out of HS.

Langford is faced with a similar situation (albeit, Indiana is in slightly better shape than MSU was). Still, he doesn't have the PG help at IU that he would have at either KU or Vandy. I think that swings the decision, but whether that means KU or Vandy is beyond me.

@BShark

He's from my neck of the woods so I feel confident in my evaluation of him. Seen him play a ton over the past 3 years. He never went through the recruiting process so this is all new for him and from everything I've read locally he's got a ton of support wherever he goes.

Can really shoot the basketball, at times lights out. That's a trait lacking on this upcoming team.

Will be interesting to see how he views his role. If he's looking for 30 minutes a night its not happening. He would have a distinct role though and could absolutely help us win some games

@justanotherfan I like your reasoning, but I’m afraid emotions will play a bigger factor. I want him at KU and can put him there with my brain, but I don’t know what he wants in his heart.

@dylans

Certainly could. It's a personal decision for him, so all sorts of factors (ones we can see and ones we can't) could be in play.

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

He's from my neck of the woods so I feel confident in my evaluation of him. Seen him play a ton over the past 3 years. He never went through the recruiting process so this is all new for him and from everything I've read locally he's got a ton of support wherever he goes.

Can really shoot the basketball, at times lights out. That's a trait lacking on this upcoming team.

Will be interesting to see how he views his role. If he's looking for 30 minutes a night its not happening. He would have a distinct role though and could absolutely help us win some games

I'd trust your overall eval on it, I haven't watched a single game of his.

You know my thoughts on Moore already. I'd think Cremo would instantly slot in ahead of Moore.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

He's from my neck of the woods so I feel confident in my evaluation of him. Seen him play a ton over the past 3 years. He never went through the recruiting process so this is all new for him and from everything I've read locally he's got a ton of support wherever he goes.

Can really shoot the basketball, at times lights out. That's a trait lacking on this upcoming team.

Will be interesting to see how he views his role. If he's looking for 30 minutes a night its not happening. He would have a distinct role though and could absolutely help us win some games

I'd trust your overall eval on it, I haven't watched a single game of his.

You know my thoughts on Moore already. I'd think Cremo would instantly slot in ahead of Moore.

I would agree with that. I see Cremo (if he comes here) as someone who instantly joins the rotation. Duke even kicked the tires on him so you know that even the elite schools see his value.

Moore will be interesting. Hope he surprises me

Romeo to Joliet (JC) ...probably a doomed union.

BShark said:

Matt Scott just changed his CB to Indiana. IT'S DONE FOLKS.

Matt Scott doesn't know. I doubt that Langford called up Scott to tell him to change his prediction. None of these guys have any real info, only hearsay.

Langford and those close to him have done a really good job of keeping things under wraps. This decision will be a surprise to everyone.

This decision is not going to be a surprise to everyone.

Statmachine said:

BShark said:

Matt Scott just changed his CB to Indiana. IT'S DONE FOLKS.

Matt Scott doesn't know. I doubt that Langford called up Scott to tell him to change his prediction. None of these guys have any real info, only hearsay.

Want to bet?

@BShark so did you see the sighting of coach Self, at the Kc airport, on the phog? Was it a joke? I know there was a flight on sw to Indianapolis about that time.

@Crimsonorblue22

I believe Coach Self uses the KU plane which is based in Lawrence for all recruiting. This is the quiet period and cannot meet with the family. Also, if he was going to see Langford he would most likely fly to Louisville which is 15 minutes away and not to Indianapolis which is 2 hours away.

Now, if he is going on a personal trip then he would fly commercial.

@JayHawkFanToo The quiet period isn't 100% hands off. The calendar is weird with scattered dates with recruiting possible. The day that Self was supposedly there was the last day to make legal face to face contct off campus (for awhile).

He can meet in the gym. Just what I read.

@JayHawkFanToo You think Self ever flies commercial?! Come on now. He has multiple jets at his disposal. In his contract he gets up to so many hours for personal use a year.

Incognito?

@Crimsonorblue22 - someone dressed as Bill Self to hide his true travel plans? 😉

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark so did you see the sighting of coach Self, at the Kc airport, on the phog? Was it a joke? I know there was a flight on sw to Indianapolis about that time.

No idea. :shrug_tone1:

@Gorilla72 rumors!

@BShark Unless you were on a 3 way call with Scott and Langford then you don't know either.

@Statmachine I know Langford is going to Indiana. That's about it.

Then why are you on this thread waiting to see where he goes?

@Statmachine I'm not waiting for anything nor will I be watching his announcement to Indiana. I'm just on the site anyway so I will reply when someone posts talking to me.

Now, I would listen to arguments that I am on this site too much. My work productivity would like me to ban myself. :joy:

Watching the “announcement”. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. Just name the school! 🙄🤣

Gorilla72 said:

Watching the “announcement”. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. Just name the school! 🙄🤣

After watching the Grimes and Dotson's announcements, I've had enough. lol

@BShark - yep. His kick ball coach is up next...🤬

Announcement fantasy match-up: Romeo Langford vs Tony Parker.

He has committed to Indiana

After that self-serving announcement circus, I believe Archie is going to have his hands full.....

He may be humble, but he didn't get it from his dad!

@Crimsonorblue22 - certainly more well-spoken than is dad “ya know”.

He actually is a good kid, stayed for hours after each game to sign autographs for kids. I'm not so sure that most of this crap was his idea.

Well I was wrong. My goodness I should be on 247 sports! My predictions are just as good as any lol! Matt Scott changed his prediction yesterday just to keep his % higher rather than sticking to his guns. BOOOOOOO!

@BShark my kids would kill me.

Jeff Borzello
‏Verified account @jeffborzello
7m7 minutes ago

This is the first time since 2007 that Indiana has landed the top-ranked senior from the state.

Wow...

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark my kids would kill me.

Apparently his dad said something about doing the announcment "his way" but I wasn't watching so I can't verify that. Makes sense though.

@Woodrow

There is a lot more accountability and scrutiny nowadays and coaches are a lot more careful on what they can and cannot do. If he is going somewhere on personal business I would not be surprised if he flies commercial. With all the investigations going on and the limelight on KU the last thing he or KU need is the Star doing a story on his use of KU planes for personal business.

Trae Young should call with hints on how RL should handle the defensive pressure that is sure to come his way. This ain’t AAU Ball!

Well I can't say that I'm really mad at the kid - I mean if he feels that's where he will be happy then so be it. Probably not as mad as maybe in the past cause had been fairly sure just quite AS SURE these past few days , wavered a bit.

Bottom line like I have said maybe not here I can't remember but Were still fine - -we were fine before Romeo - -were fine after Romeo. Would it of been cool with him here - - hell ya , but it's not like this is the first top flight player we lost out on - - - won't be the last. Sun still comes up in the East - -Still sits in the West

The one FOR SURE thing I will say - I'm just glad this is finally over - these long drawn recruitments have become way to big of a media specticale - - -just announce and be done with it. - -Seems like these kids are in competition with one another on who can come up with the most piazzzz for their announcements. - I'm just glad it's over - -time to move on to NEXT years 2019 recruits now - -Let's do this - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

According to his dad KU finished third behind Vandy. Blah.

@BShark the FBI “scandal” is going to be a hurdle for Self and staff. The quote I saw was his Dad basically saying having the schools name associated with the FBI case eliminated them.

Woodrow said:

@BShark the FBI “scandal” is going to be a hurdle for Self and staff. The quote I saw was his Dad basically saying having the schools name associated with the FBI case eliminated them.

Yep.

They lied beforehand and said it wasn't a factor too... Bad look.

Here is the full quote: "Kansas, it pushed it out for me. Just having that name on your school. I didn't take them out of the three verbally, we just didn't want him going there and anybody asking him that type of question. So we don't want him going to school there, we don't care how good the basketball is."

@Woodrow so hes a lier then cuz he said it didnt

@BShark post the link from that

@BShark yea that’s the quote I saw. Not good at all.

As far as the Dad I assume he didn’t come out and eliminate KU because then there would be no suspense if there really was any today. I agree it’s a bad look. Obviously the family / Romeo like some attention. So it makes sense to go the Trae Young route.

Eh. No big loss. Sr. Garrett should benefit from the increased minutes next year.

@dylans he better be able to hit the broad side of the barn!

@Crimsonorblue22 Garrett shooting from three last year was basically a turnover.

Hello Trae Young Part Deux. Good luck at the NIT, the NCAA made a mistake sending OU to the dance because of Young but will not make the same mistake again. Archie Miller is a really good coach and will get Indiana in shape in time but I don’t believe one player and one year will do it, he will need more time and talent than what he has now.

So which team did he pick?

Kidding. Maybe we get Cremo now

Did he pick Louisville? I really thought he was going there

So, it sounds like KU was in the mix, that he delayed his decision seeing how things shook out at KU, but the FBI B.S. took KU out of the mix. Nice.

I wonder, if there wasn't any indictment, but the info about Adidas paying DeSousa and Preston had come out (without the indictment), would the reaction be the same?

Maybe. Fear of sanctions maybe. I don't know.

When you are associated with this stuff and KU is a part of that in any way, it is not a good thing. That is for sure.

It could warp the next class or two but ultimately many more schools and players will be named. In the end if college basketball still exists, KU should be fine.

@HighEliteMajor

It's not good. We may ultimately be happy Langford's father isn't looking over every Bill Self coaching decision either. Now Archie's problem

Also we are actively recruiting a player with red flags everywhere (Charles Bassey) who may try and reclassify to 2018. Something's gotta give

BeddieKU23 said:

@HighEliteMajor

It's not good. We may ultimately be happy Langford's father isn't looking over every Bill Self coaching decision either. Now Archie's problem

Also we are actively recruiting a player with red flags everywhere (Charles Bassey) who may try and reclassify to 2018. Something's gotta give

I really don't like going after Bassey as stated before. It's just not a good look.

@BShark

It looks really bad, I see no other way around that. Should have known better to expect recruiting tactics to completely change. We have to get away from these kids with eligibility issues

@BeddieKU23 It's kind of a stunning lack of awareness from Self.

If daddy Langford is to be believed, the FBI probe did hurt KU and it can can truly claim now victim status. :smile: The longer the investigation goes, the more damage it causes and even if KU and other schools are found to be fully innocent, the damage will be considerably and long lasting.

Most posters in this forum are probably too young to remember Ray Donovan, who was Secretary of labor under Regan and was accused by the State of New York.of fraud along with other executives of his construction and other firms and had to resign his cabinet position. The jury deliberated a few hours and found them innocent in the first ballot and then stood and applauded when the accused stood up to celebrate. Afterwards he famously said...''The question is, should this indictment have ever been brought? Which office do I go to to get my reputation back? Who will reimburse my company for the economic jail it has been in for two and a half years?''

Will KU representatives be issuing a similar statement in a few weeks or months? Once the name is out there, it is difficult to remove the associated stigma. Even if KU is found to be completely innocent, the smell related to the implication will linger for along time and will be used by rival programs to impeach KU.

In any case, sounds like daddy Langford is a helicopter dad and will be a new version of Carl Henry which was a thorn in the coaches' side even when he was an alumnus; maybe KU dodged a bullet on this one. The entire announcement makes me think how classy Wiggins announcement was.

I don’t really care how it looks. Go get talent. You all want to win and win big? Go get guys who are legit. We aren’t going to compete with the Duke/UK/UNC’s of the world by only going after squeaky clean dudes.

@JayHawkFanToo

The same could be said for many of the players pulled into this because of the actions of third parties, possibly without their knowledge.

I don't worry too much about parents being involved. That means they care. It's better to have parents that give a crap than parents that are nowhere to be found.