🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Read-only archive of KuBuckets.com (2013-2025)
FBI...here we go
Sep 28, 2018 01:58 AM #1

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24813412/what-watch-college-hoops-biggest-scandal-goes-trial ↗

Teaser:

ALL OF COLLEGE basketball will be focused on a New York courtroom starting Monday, as the government argues its case in the biggest bribery and corruption scandal in the sport's history.

One year ago, FBI agents arrested 10 men after a clandestine two-year investigation. Three of the eight remaining defendants -- Adidas executive James Gatto, Adidas consultant Merl Code and Christian Dawkins, a former AAU director and runner for a well-known NBA agent -- are the first to be tried, on charges that they conspired to pay high school prospects and/or their families to sign with Adidas-sponsored schools Kansas, Louisville, Miami and North Carolina State.

James Gatto: Gatto, the director of global sports marketing for basketball at Adidas, is specifically accused of approving sham invoices to conceal illicit payments to players' families. The New York native has worked at Adidas since 1993; he was placed on leave shortly after his arrest. His father, Jim Gatto, was a longtime high school basketball coach in New York. Gatto is charged with six felony counts related to attempt and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. He is the only one of the three defendants accused of involvement in a scheme involving Kansas recruits.

Kansas: The government alleges that between October 2016 and November 2017, Gatto conspired with Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola and others to funnel at least $90,000 to Kansas prospect Billy Preston's mother. The complaint says money was funneled through an AAU team controlled by Gassnola and through sham invoices approved by Gatto.

The government says Gassnola facilitated the cash payments to Preston's mother, Nicole Player, including a $30,000 payment delivered in a New York hotel room on Oct. 31, 2016, and $20,000 paid in a Las Vegas hotel room on Jan. 19, 2017.

Gatto, Gassnola and others are also accused of conspiring to make cash payments to the guardian of Kansas prospect Silvio De Sousa to help him get "out from under" a deal to sign with a school sponsored by a different sneaker company. On Sept. 11, 2017, according to the complaint, Gassnola told Gatto during a telephone conversation that he would need to make "another $20,000 payment" to De Sousa's guardian, Fenny Falmagne. Falmagne has denied receiving any money.

In July, Kansas officials acknowledged that the university had received two federal subpoenas to produce materials and have school officials testify to a grand jury.

Silvio De Sousa: A native of Angola, De Sousa moved to the U.S. before his freshman year of high school. He transferred to IMG Academy in Florida in the summer of 2016, then reclassified and graduated early to join the Jayhawks in late December 2017. De Sousa, a 6-foot-9 forward, averaged 8.8 minutes in 20 games at Kansas last season. He scored seven points and grabbed seven rebounds in 10 minutes in the national semifinal loss to Villanova.

Billy Preston: Preston, ranked 18th overall and fourth among power forwards in the 2017 ESPN Top 100, did not play in a game for the Jayhawks last season because of eligibility concerns. He was held out of 17 games while the university looked into the "financial picture" of a vehicle he wrecked on campus. He turned pro on Jan. 20 and signed a contract with BC Igokea of Bosnia. Preston wasn't selected in June's NBA draft but signed a two-way contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Sep 28, 2018 02:08 AM #2

:sleeping:

Sep 28, 2018 02:11 AM #3

This is like following the Kavanaugh hearings. All drama, no action.

Sep 28, 2018 02:12 AM #4

chriz said:

This is like following the Kavanaugh hearings. All drama, no action.

Ha! Well put.

Sep 28, 2018 03:02 AM #5

SDS is called out in the document. However, I see nothing about Arizona????

Sep 28, 2018 03:48 AM #6

@chriz I did learn a few new words. Devil's Triangle, Boof. Not exactly how they were portrayed. 🤭don't look them up.

Oct 02, 2018 12:13 AM #7

remarks brought around by Dan Wetzel on the FBI with College basketball:

He said during the Jury Selection today they perspective juror's were told the names of a list of Schools that may come up they are: Arizona , Louisville , Kansas , NC State , Miami , LSU , Oregon , Depaul , Creighton , Texas , Oklahoma State ,, & USC.

He also said that they were told of names that might be brought up ( Yet may not necessarily have any wrong doing ) - -they were:

Bill Self , Sean Miller , Jim Larranaga , Kugma , - ready for this one? - - ( Zion Williamson ) - - Romeo Langford , Jason Richardson , Isiah Whitehead , Tom Jurich , Nasir Little , & Markelle Fultz.

Things about to become a little more interesting - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 02, 2018 01:32 AM #8

Girod and some other people are on the witness list. I still think nothing really comes of this.

Oct 02, 2018 04:23 AM #9

chriz said:

This is like following the Kavanaugh hearings.

I can almost guarantee that like those hearings, the bb cases will see all types of attempts to redefine relevant words and phrases:

"bribe" "payola" "fees" "agent"

and the biggie--"student athlete"

Oct 02, 2018 04:56 AM #10

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24823682/why-ncaa-hoops-scandal-likely-spread-trial-starts ↗

Oct 02, 2018 05:54 AM #11

@dylans that doesn't sound as bad?

Oct 02, 2018 09:40 AM #12

So why would Bill Self's name be brought up in this at all? I thought this INVOLVED "Kansas". Someone please explain?

Oct 02, 2018 11:31 AM #13

@BeddieKU23 The same reason 4 KU people are on the witness list. Preston and De Sousa are involved.

Oct 02, 2018 12:08 PM #14

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 The same reason 4 KU people are on the witness list. Preston and De Sousa are involved.

What KU people are on the witness list?

Oct 02, 2018 12:17 PM #15

@BeddieKU23 Girod and some lower level guys.

Oct 02, 2018 01:08 PM #16

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24865146/jury-selection-begins-first-trial-college-basketball-scandal ↗

Oct 02, 2018 01:27 PM #17

"Code, Dawkins and Gatto are each charged with five felony counts related to wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud; Gatto faces a sixth felony related to a pay-for-play scheme involving Kansas recruits."

Not great. Just have to hope nothing comes back to the school or Self.

Oct 02, 2018 01:28 PM #18

Witness lists just have names of everyone who could be called to testify; not all of those will be.

Oct 02, 2018 01:44 PM #19

BShark said:

"Code, Dawkins and Gatto are each charged with five felony counts related to wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud; Gatto faces a sixth felony related to a pay-for-play scheme involving Kansas recruits."

Not great. Just have to hope nothing comes back to the school or Self.

The 6th charge definitely has my interest. I remain confident Self wouldn't be preparing for the season if there was doubt

Oct 02, 2018 02:48 PM #20

@BShark if a robbery occurs at a Walmart, Walmart is involved, but aren't the target. If an employee of Walmart is involved, then he gets charged, but they don't hold Walmart responsible.

Oct 02, 2018 03:12 PM #21

The original indictment listed KU as one of the victims although I seriously doubt KU sees itself this way. Recruiting is like the proverbial “making sausages,” you might like the final product but you really don’t want to see how it is done. All programs are aware that top recruits might not be without baggage but I am sure they see it as the cost of doing business and there is always the chance something negative might come out. KU did not play Preston at all and the NCAA cleared Silvio so KU has a pretty strong and defensible case. I will guess that testimony by KU personnel would not help the prosecution case so I seriously doubt anyone from KU will testify and KU will be mentioned only as a potential victim.

Oct 02, 2018 04:48 PM #22

JayHawkFanToo said:

The original indictment listed KU as one of the victims although I seriously doubt KU sees itself this way. Recruiting is like the proverbial “making sausages,” you might like the final product but you really don’t want to see how it is done. All programs are aware that top recruits might not be without baggage but I am sure they see it as the cost of doing business and there is always the chance something negative might come out. KU did not play Preston at all and the NCAA cleared Silvio so KU has a pretty strong and defensible case. I will guess that testimony by KU personnel would not help the prosecution case so I seriously doubt anyone from KU will testify and KU will be mentioned only as a potential victim.

@JayHawkFanToo From your lips to God's ears!

Oct 02, 2018 05:06 PM #23

Per Dan Wetzel who is covering the trial for Yahoo. During opening remarks Gatto's attorney said that Oregon offered "an astronomical" amount of money to recruit Brian Bowen. The 100,000$ deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field"

Also Under Armor paid $20,000 to De Sousa to sign with Maryland and Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little.

His main goal is to make all of college basketball look corrupt not just Adidas...

Oct 02, 2018 05:12 PM #24

If I am reading this correctly Gatto is admitting that he / Adidas paid Silvio 20,000$ to go to Kansas.

Oct 02, 2018 05:13 PM #25

Woodrow said:

Per Dan Wetzel who is covering the trial for Yahoo. During opening remarks Gatto's attorney said that Oregon offered "an astronomical" amount of money to recruit Brian Bowen. The 100,000$ deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field"

Also Under Armor paid $20,000 to De Sousa to sign with Maryland and Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little.

His main goal is to make all of college basketball look corrupt not just Adidas...

Well IF Under Armor paid 20,000 to De-Sousa , then that automatically takes Silvio's amateur status away right off the bat doesn't it? - -I don't know - -seems like it would , which in the end run the NCAA would then make us forfeit any games that Silvio played in for us right? - - -ROCKCHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 02, 2018 05:15 PM #26

Woodrow said:

If I am reading this correctly Gatto is admitting that he / Adidas paid Silvio 20,000$ to go to Kansas.

Well Under Armour paid DE Sousa 20,00 to play for Maryland he said - - So did Under Armour and Adidas BOTH pay De-Sousa? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 02, 2018 05:18 PM #27

I am not going to pretend to understand how any of this plays out. Sounds like Gatto's lawyer came out guns a blazing.

"NCAA rules were broken. We are not going to waste your time pretending these families did not get funds"

Oct 02, 2018 05:32 PM #28

jayballer73 said:

Woodrow said:

Per Dan Wetzel who is covering the trial for Yahoo. During opening remarks Gatto's attorney said that Oregon offered "an astronomical" amount of money to recruit Brian Bowen. The 100,000$ deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field"

Also Under Armor paid $20,000 to De Sousa to sign with Maryland and Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little.

His main goal is to make all of college basketball look corrupt not just Adidas...

Well IF Under Armor paid 20,000 to De-Sousa , then that automatically takes Silvio's amateur status away right off the bat doesn't it? - -I don't know - -seems like it would , which in the end run the NCAA would then make us forfeit any games that Silvio played in for us right? - - -ROCKCHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

They didn't pay De Sousa, they alledegly paid his guardian. And the FBI has told the NCAA to take a backseat until the trials go through. Silvio's status can't be touched

Oct 02, 2018 05:34 PM #29

@BeddieKU23 So then what did his guardian do with the money?

Oct 02, 2018 05:35 PM #30

As I understand it, supposedly Under Armour paid SDS’s guardian. The guardian had to reimburse UA when SDS decided to commit to Kansas and the guardian had to reimburse UA. Allegedly, that’s where Adidas stepped up and either reimbursed UA or the guardian for his payment back to UA. IMO.

Oct 02, 2018 05:38 PM #31

jayballer73 said:

@BeddieKU23 So then what did his guardian do with the money?

No idea, he's denied ever receiving it.

If there is a paper trail that gets handed off to the NCAA once this whole trial is over, then that's where Silvio's eligibility could get looked at.

Oct 02, 2018 07:00 PM #32

BeddieKU23 said:

jayballer73 said:

@BeddieKU23 So then what did his guardian do with the money?

No idea, he's denied ever receiving it.

If there is a paper trail that gets handed off to the NCAA once this whole trial is over, then that's where Silvio's eligibility could get looked at.

True , but come on , I know your not really saying you believe that are you? With so many dirty agents - -and there are PLENTY of Guardians the same way, you can't really believe that he REALLY didn't receive that money do you? I hope turns out that he DIDN'T receive any money , but I'm not holding my breathe. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 02, 2018 07:11 PM #33

This tweet just about sums up my thoughts on the matter.

John Broward @ACCRecruitingXP

If Smith Sr was employed by Adidas as an AAU coach just like Bagley Jr @ Duke who cares? Obvious loop hole but everybody did it . UNC paid Tyler Hansbros mother $200,000 for a bogus job while she gave blowjobs on a University private plane .
12:53 PM - Oct 2, 2018

Oct 02, 2018 07:25 PM #34

@jayballer73

I have no idea what actually happened. I'm waiting to see what happens here while hoping KU is not in the cross hairs, that everything KU has said publicly is in fact the truth.

All I know is the timeline for how Silvio got to Kansas was definitely not in the normal flow of how KU gets recruits in this day and age. All of us that followed that situation know things happened so fast we had no idea he was even on campus, committed and caused a stir for Maryland fans.

Oct 02, 2018 10:37 PM #35

Well, not looking good. So Gotto's attorney asked and was told that yes Gotto paid somebody at the very least from De-Sousa's camp 20,000 dollars to come to KU. Gotto this was done AFTER DeSousa or some body in De-Sousa camp received 20,000 from Under Armor - - for Silvio to play for Maryland. - -So Somewhere in the De-Sousa camp they received 40,000. 20.000 from Adidas - -20,00 from under Armor.

People on some other sites saying not good - -some talking about having to vacate our final four. - Myself I think Silvio is done. - Like someone else mentioned they don't see how Coach Self could possibly play Silvio now. - -Could very easily have to forfeit any games he played in - -he receiving money there goes your Amateur status quick - -ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 02, 2018 11:08 PM #36

!alt text ↗

Oct 02, 2018 11:15 PM #37

Is Silvio’s guardian on the witness list?

Oct 03, 2018 12:28 AM #38

I've said all along that Nike is paying off athletes as well, and lo and behold, that was the opening statement by Gatto's attorney. They claim they have proof that Bowen was offered 100K by Nike U:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-corruption-trials-get-underway-with-bombshell-opening-statement-from-defense-team/ ↗

Oct 03, 2018 12:36 AM #39

Gorilla72 said:

Is Silvio’s guardian on the witness list?

He is listed on "Other Relevant Individuals" as is Preston's mother.

Oct 03, 2018 12:54 AM #40

@1JayhawkLifer Yep. Benny Falmagne for anyone wondering.

Nice to see you here, Lifer.

Oct 03, 2018 12:55 AM #41

Thanks, @1JayhawkLifer. It will be interesting to find out if there is a paper trail to SDS guardian that may implicate Maryland and/or KU.

Oct 03, 2018 01:01 AM #42

Gorilla72 said:

Thanks, @1JayhawkLifer. It will be interesting to find out if there is a paper trail to SDS guardian that may implicate Maryland and/or KU.

very well could implicate them both -- One thing for sure is and I reckon you can't blame him I would be the same way - -very obvious that ol Jimmy Gatt out to try and save as much of his bacon as possible

NOW he doesn't give a dam. - -I have a feeling and I'm not necessarily taking huge - -but now I'm getting this feeling that because of the way things are looking up in the air and if you noticed - - De-Sousa and KU was one of the 1st things - -1st day - -just got this feeling that YES it just might have some influence - no matter what size portion - -but really feel that this just might be enough to push a couple of people the other way , quite possibly Hurt - - maybe even JRE - -you can take it to the bank GOOD OL ROY BOY and crew will be running this with wildfire - -things gonna get interesting/maybe ugly. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 03, 2018 01:07 AM #43

Thanks @BShark ! Just found this site this year and have mainly been lurking, but appreciate any and all info regarding KU.

Your're welcome @Gorilla72 . This whole court case just strikes me as a very bizarre use of FBI resources, taxpayer money and our court system. Have to agree with the defense lawyer, what the hell are we doing here? It isn't illegal to break NCAA rules.

Oct 03, 2018 03:32 AM #44

@dylans

Did everyone see the most recent news?
Im sure you did. Fabulous, right?
Dammit, looks like we might have to vacate wins and or let Silvio go pro. Wonderful.
I just hope NONE of the coaches new anything about this.

Oct 03, 2018 04:44 AM #45

@Lulufulu I hate the whole deal. Hope something good comes of it.

Oct 03, 2018 04:44 AM #46

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Kansas-Jayhawks-basketball-The-reason-why-the-NCAA-couldnt-move-on-Billy-Preston-122759091/ ↗

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-corruption-trials-get-underway-with-bombshell-opening-statement-from-defense-team/ ↗

Oct 03, 2018 09:57 AM #47

@Lulufulu

Everything is going to be okay.

Oct 03, 2018 10:04 AM #48

We all know Jeff is a looney bin but he's not wrong here either, at least so far.

Important to note on those Silvio De Sousa/Under Armour/Maryland allegations: there's been no evidence or mentions of this happening except for claims by Jim Gatto, former Adidas exec who's admitting paying players and attempting to paint everyone as doing it.

— Jeff Ermann (@Jeff_Ermann) October 2, 2018

Oct 03, 2018 12:30 PM #49

@1JayhawkLifer

I agree. I have said for a long time that as long as the income is declared and the government gets its cut no laws are broken. Yes, lots of NCAA rules were broken but no crime committed by the mere act of giving and/or taking money. Now, if the money used for the payments was acquired by non legit means and taxes were not paid then that could be an issue;remember they got Al Capone for tax evasion and not for all the other crimes he committed.

Oct 03, 2018 12:44 PM #50

The creation of fake documents certainly does not help any of their cases. They also have a responsibility to file 1099s for anyone they paid that is not a Corporation or a 501C(3) so that the government know that there is income to collect from the individuals.

It's really funny, because if they didn't hide any of this, I'm sure they don't get caught and nothing is illegal.

But both parties (the parents and the coaches/Gatto) all committed tax fraud. I'm almost 100% certain. But only half of those people are getting charged...

Oct 03, 2018 12:57 PM #51

I hate it when lazy reporters keep writing that money was paid to Silvio when there is zero evidence of that having happened. The money was allegedly paid/given to his guardian, Fenny Falmagne, and there is no evidence that I know that Silvio knew about it. Likely scenario is that Silvio indicated he wanted to attend Kansas which had been his first choice and at that time his guardian told him...we might have a problem since I have told Maryland you would be going there st which time Silvio said fix it and Falmagne went to Adidas.

The question is do you penalize the kid for the dealings of the guardian? More importantly, do you penalize KU who apparently did not know anything about it?

Preston’s case is different insofar as the entire family knew about the payment and publicly, and I will guess privately as well, denied it. KU cannot be penalized for something it did not know...and Billy never played an official game for KU. Maybe MU will demand the exhibition game is forfeited to them because Billy played...:smile:

Oct 03, 2018 01:22 PM #52

@JayHawkFanToo

The question is do you penalize the kid for the dealings of the guardian?

Likely, yes. The NCAA has usually penalized the kid in the end. The Cam Newton rule no longer applies. Look no further then Cliff Alexander as well. In broad terms yes I think Silvio could lose his eligibility if the paper trail is proven to lead to his guardian.

However I have the opinion the middle man Corey Dawkins kept the cash he was supposed to distribute. There hasn't been any evidence presented showing a paper trail leading back to anyone. I'll await to see whether that is true or not.

More importantly, do you penalize KU who apparently did not know anything about it?

It would be hard to see that happening without the NCAA having evidence to support the school/ coaches helping facilitate this whole situation. The Billy Preston situation helps KU actually, they found an issue and reported it. That shows a school willing to follow the rules. KU can use other players over the years as well showing a pattern of consistency following compliance. It's certainly not a lack of oversight issue. KU will have a strong case to support itself if the NCAA tried to give them some sort of violation(s).

Oct 03, 2018 02:33 PM #53

Like couldn't they have just "hired" Billy's mom or Silvio's Guardian to an "AAU Coach" position? This just seems so incredibly dumb to me. And a ton of unnecessary effort on Adidas' part.

Oct 03, 2018 02:55 PM #54

Well feeling somewhat better. - - - read an article that was talking about the 1st day of the trial and trying to make sense from it:

It states , that the Feds are trying to prove that the Adidas officials including Gatto are trying to defraud Universities , stripping players of their amateur status by paying them with out the Universities knowledge. ( if they get this done that HAS to benefit us for sure right? ) The Article says Gatto has to come up with evidence other then hear say. - -The jury will look at him as a partial witness as he has to much to lose - - ( his freedom ) - what he trying to do is throw his business partners - Coach's under the bus to save his bacon.

They write is this article - - they wrote so - - -Will the wire taps reveal Coach's were orchestrating the payments? - - - A prosecutor's friend says the prosecutor says his guess is NO. He says IF that were the case one of two things likely would of happened. Either the Coach's would of been listed as Co- conspirators , defrauding the very University for which they work for OR the Feds would realize the schools weren't being defrauded because the schools knew about the payments and the feds would choose not to proceed with the case. - - -- Interesting , man hope this all works out

Oct 03, 2018 04:22 PM #55

Is there precedent of vacated seasons due to ineligibility of students even though it was unknown to the university?

Even so, if it turns out that KU had no knowledge and that the charge is defrauding universities, then would the NCAA enforce a further penalty (vacated season) to a defrauded university? I would assume not as it would be a terrible PR move.

Oct 03, 2018 04:41 PM #56

@chriz Duke didn't have to vacate anything for Maggette lol

Oct 03, 2018 05:16 PM #57

Time to hear from Nike? Lace ‘em up...

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/arizona-wildcats-oregon-offered-to-pay-big-for-basketball-recruits/article_65121a1d-ef5b-5864-9be4-5b35aaf03974.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1 ↗

Oct 03, 2018 05:18 PM #58

@JayHawkFanToo Lol @ MU trying to get KU to vacate the exhibition game!!

Oct 03, 2018 06:58 PM #59

If we have to vacate anything, can they wipe our memories of watching the losses, too?

Oct 03, 2018 08:33 PM #60

mayjay said:

If we have to vacate anything, can they wipe our memories of watching the losses, too?

Or, better yet, give us the death penalty--in football?

Oct 03, 2018 08:49 PM #61

Saw this in a Topeka CJ online article about the trial.

“KU’s Silvio De Sousa is one of the players who was involved in such wars, according to Casey Donnelly, Gatto’s attorney. Donnelly said Gatto paid $20,000 to steer the prized forward to KU after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland,” according to a Yahoo Sports report.

Donnelly vowed to provide evidence showing Gatto’s payments were made with the knowledge of some highly paid coaches, Yahoo Sports reported.

With regard to De Sousa, Donnelly said Gatto was asked to match the Under Armour offer so De Sousa “could go to Kansas,” but she didn’t specify who asked for the offer to be matched.

De Sousa’s name previously had been connected to the corruption probe, but Donnelly’s statement marked the first time Gatto admitted paying for the 6-foot-9 Angolan to come to KU.”

Every other article I’ve seen said the payment to his guardian for “reimbursement to UA”.

🤔🧐

Oct 03, 2018 09:06 PM #62

Barring a much more substantial paper trail, I can’t see the NCAA coming down on anyone. If they do, everyone’s going down with us.

Oct 03, 2018 09:57 PM #63

I would just find it hard to believe KU's staff, after years of prophylactic suspensions of players where something suspicious came to light (Alexander, Preston), would cavalierly throw caution to the winds and get involved in a double pay-for-play scenario ($ to Silvio or guardian, $ also to reimbuse UA).

Oct 03, 2018 09:58 PM #64

If you get a chance like Mat Tait said , if you get a chance go to Yahoo sports College podcast. - talks about this FBI thing, with Dan Wentzel - - -Pat Forde and some dude named Pete somebody , who the hell knows - -anyways they said or Wenztel as - The defense is coming all out with it they say

They are admitting everything yes we did this BUT - NCAA rules are not in the laws of the Country/ throwing it out that they did nothing wrong. Like Adidas saying HEY we were using Adidas money , trying to get the kid to an Adidas school. The defense is thought or possibly trying to express that is how am I hurting a school by getting them a good player.

Wentzel says if the Feds are trying to win this case based upon by talking about the love of NCAA rules - he thinks the defense has a good shot at winning this case. He almost makes it sound like since this trial is being heard in NY sits up a lot better for the defense then if it was being held in Indiana

They said people just don't care about a lot of this. They said the fallout of this isn't gonna be whether Dawkins gets a year in some minimum security prison - -It's gonna be about the banners forfeited - - Coach's fired - -wins vacated.

Prosecution brought out in a one line statement how Billy Preston was paid or agreed to be paid 90,000 dollars to come to the University of Kansas. - -Mercy what a mess. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 03, 2018 10:42 PM #65

I see a possible one time NCAA general amnesty in the future. If the NCAA punished everyone involved they might have to cancel the season or seasons.

Oct 04, 2018 01:32 AM #66

@mayjay I agree and I find it extremely unlikely that Bill Self or any of his staff, coaches would do anything to hurt KU Basketball in any way shape or form.

Oct 04, 2018 01:25 PM #67

To me, its looking like Silvio won't be able to play for KU this season. Its not fair to him at all. I mean dont punish the kid for something he wasnt involved in. Make the recipient of the payments give it back and penalize them! Screw the NCAA and their idiotic rules.

Oct 04, 2018 01:33 PM #68

NCAA already declared him eligible. :shrug:

Oct 04, 2018 01:55 PM #69

<3 <3 <3 <3

Oct 04, 2018 02:11 PM #70

BShark said:

NCAA already declared him eligible. :shrug:

The thing is that the NCAA cleared him last year , that's great BUT what they cleared him for was they cleared him for the courses he took met NCAA guidelines to qualify to graduate early and gain entrance mid semester , and play for KU last year - -that course he had took met guidelines and were acceptable courses - this was BEFORE any of this became knowledge but quite some time- -they haven't cleared him for any possible payments of 20,000 him or his guardian may have taken from Gotto

I think Silvio is DONE. - - Do I think it's right ? - -- Hell no I don't - I truly feel he has no idea , like someone else said IF the guardian took money then HE is the one who needs his ass kicked , he just caused Silvio to lose his Amateur status -- I don't think you'll ever see Silvio touch the floor in another ball game for KU. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 04, 2018 03:41 PM #71

@Lulufulu They gave Sexton a 1 game penalty last year.

Oct 04, 2018 04:02 PM #72

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

NCAA already declared him eligible. :shrug:

The thing is that the NCAA cleared him last year , that's great BUT what they cleared him for was they cleared him for the courses he took met NCAA guidelines to qualify to graduate early and gain entrance mid semester , and play for KU last year - -that course he had took met guidelines and were acceptable courses - this was BEFORE any of this became knowledge but quite some time- -they haven't cleared him for any possible payments of 20,000 him or his guardian may have taken from Gotto

I think Silvio is DONE. - - Do I think it's right ? - -- Hell no I don't - I truly feel he has no idea , like someone else said IF the guardian took money then HE is the one who needs his ass kicked , he just caused Silvio to lose his Amateur status -- I don't think you'll ever see Silvio touch the floor in another ball game for KU. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

No, he was cleared both academically and amateurism-wise.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/jan/13/silvio-de-sousa-cleared-ncaa-will-play-today-vs-k-/ ↗

Excerpt:
The KU basketball program on Saturday morning announced that the 6-foot-9, 245-pound power forward who came to Kansas a semester early after graduating from IMG Academy in Florida in December, had been certified as an amateur athlete and would be eligible to play in today's 11 a.m. game against Kansas State at Allen Fieldhouse.

Oct 04, 2018 04:25 PM #73

https://sports.yahoo.com/mark-emmerts-absence-hoops-trial-shows-much-cares-corruption-sport-001607530.html ↗

A KU mention although vague in details

Oct 04, 2018 07:33 PM #74

Sexton LITERALLY ON THE PAYROLL AT BAMA.

With their football program being what it is, you think they'd be better at cheating.

Oct 04, 2018 08:36 PM #75

Brian Bowen Sr. just said in court that he was offered but did not accept money and benefits from Arizona, Okie St., Texas, Creighton, and oregon.

Oct 04, 2018 08:38 PM #76

@Woodrow Lol people these days will perjure the hell out of themselves.

Edit: I reread an actual quote. He didn't lie. He just didn't take money from them and took the Louisville deal. I get it now. Crazy.

Didn't remember what Oregon offered.

Arizona though, again. Just absolute trash.

Oct 04, 2018 08:39 PM #77

He was paid $5-$8,000 to have his son play for a Nike AAU team.

Oct 04, 2018 08:45 PM #78

How is Nike not more implicated in this than Adidas? OSU, UT, Arizona and Creighton all Nike schools...

Oct 04, 2018 08:45 PM #79

@Woodrow - link for your info? It seems to be real time?

Oct 04, 2018 08:49 PM #80

@Gorilla72 I am just following it on Twitter. Dan Wetzel and Adam Zagoria are both at the trial...

Oct 04, 2018 08:49 PM #81

@Gorilla72 All over twitter right now.

Oct 04, 2018 09:04 PM #82

So , with all these schools offering Bowen money - -helping with housing 8.00 cars roflmao whatever I'm beginning to think that the way this is going the NCAA would have to put half the schools on probation inn one form or another - this isn't HALF of what's going on I'm getting the sense - -ALOT more schools that probably guilty not even getting caught up. If they try and penalize all the schools they are gonna be in sad shape.

Like has been said in the past - - if they really wanted to the NCAA could probably put every single school in the Nation on probation - -the rules are so jacked up - -they talking about the possibility of Compliance office and how closely thing are monitored - hell I'm not feeling nearly as bad after seeing this. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 04, 2018 09:08 PM #83

The key to all of this is if there is proof. If not it is just one mans word versus another. So it means nothing.

And if Creighton is out there offering $100K then EVERYONE is cheating!

Oct 04, 2018 09:24 PM #84

@Woodrow lol just what I was about to say. Yea if Creighton can whip up $100k, anyone can.

Oct 04, 2018 09:27 PM #85

Woodrow said:

The key to all of this is if there is proof. If not it is just one mans word versus another. So it means nothing.

And if Creighton is out there offering $100K then EVERYONE is cheating!

YUP -- EVERYONE -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 04, 2018 10:38 PM #86

Laugh now but you dont want to know what the blue bloods offer, ku included.

All this airing out of the dirty laundry doesn't help anything. It will mean nothing because Emmert and the NCAA are the ones ultimately responsible, and where are they during this? Hardly a word

Oct 04, 2018 10:54 PM #87

100k AND a job offer from Creighton. Yeaaaah.

There are worse time frames this investigation could have hit for KU, that's for sure.

Oct 04, 2018 10:56 PM #88

Sitting Billy was pretty smart...

Oct 04, 2018 11:22 PM #89

@1JayhawkLifer Certified as an amateur for initial eligibility is largely dependent on information provided by the recruit and his family. That means nothing if the NCAA finds out the submissions were fraudulent.

Oct 05, 2018 02:40 AM #90

@Lulufulu If that big could play for Arizona last season then everyone should be playing!

Oct 05, 2018 03:24 AM #91

http://m.kusports.com/news/2018/oct/03/kus-de-sousa-could-be-ruled-ineligible-ncaa-rules-/ ↗

Oct 05, 2018 01:33 PM #92

Soooo, we're going to see some Lawson/Lawson front line lineups if Silvio is ruled out. That means we could run a freaking 5 out offense. Dotson/Grimes/Vick/KJ/Dedric. Man oh man...that could be the best passing team we've ever seen.

Oct 05, 2018 01:50 PM #93

@KUSTEVE I don't think we'd see them in the front court together very much even if SDS is ruled ineligible. KJ will mostly play the 3 this year and when he does play the 4 spot, it'll be in place of his brother, not next to him, but that's assuming Self doesn't decide to play Mitch as the back up 4 if Silvio is ruled ineligible.

Oct 05, 2018 02:11 PM #94

Texas Hawk 10 said:

@KUSTEVE I don't think we'd see them in the front court together very much even if SDS is ruled ineligible. KJ will mostly play the 3 this year and when he does play the 4 spot, it'll be in place of his brother, not next to him, but that's assuming Self doesn't decide to play Mitch as the back up 4 if Silvio is ruled ineligible.

Ya I think your right.I think if anything were gonna see Mitch backing Dedric at the 4- -KJ will either play the 3 or he has even played some 2 -but I think most the time he will be exclusive 3. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 08, 2018 12:02 PM #95

If we don't have Silvio its a huge loss, a huge shift in this team's depth and the difference between being a championship contender

Oct 08, 2018 01:42 PM #96

@BeddieKU23 I think the difference is going from being a final four lock to being a championship contender...like most years.

Oct 08, 2018 02:10 PM #97

dylans said:

@BeddieKU23 I think the difference is going from being a final four lock to being a championship contender...like most years.

I would hardly call this bunch a Final 4 lock with so many new pieces. A lot of pre-season hype/expectations include Silvio being apart of that. This team may/probably will start two freshman in the backcourt which has its own set of growing pains. I think the sum of all of KU's parts are better then the field but without Silvio its a big dent to the post depth Self was going to have.

Oct 08, 2018 02:14 PM #98

If Silvio is found ineligible how can KU keep supporting Adidas? Two players they allegedly paid are now caught up in this scandal.

The problem with ditching Adidas is the entire field is dirty. Nobody is clean. None of this dirty laundry will actually get fixed. SO does KU just go to the next dirty company and hope it doesn't get caught in the cross hairs again? Or stick with the company having its dirty laundry aired out

Oct 08, 2018 02:23 PM #99

This team could lose Silvio and still be a championship contender. No doubt in my mind. Post depth is the least of my concerns. I'm much more worried about how Dotson looks running the show. Followed closely by the chemistry of this group. A lot of mouths to feed on this team.

Oct 08, 2018 02:25 PM #100

@BeddieKU23 Silvio is a very nice backup post player. McCormack is a step down, but a nice backup post player. Mitch is a different type of player and a step down from Silvio, but also a serviceable backup big. It should work out, the team is well constructed.

Oct 08, 2018 02:25 PM #101

BeddieKU23 said:

I would hardly call this bunch a Final 4 lock with so many new pieces. A lot of pre-season hype/expectations include Silvio being apart of that. This team may/probably will start two freshman in the backcourt which has its own set of growing pains. I think the sum of all of KU's parts are better then the field but without Silvio its a big dent to the post depth Self was going to have.

Missing DeSousa and having Doke/lawson with McCormack/Lightfoot coming off the bench is still a pretty good 4 man front court rotation.

i agree about the Final 4 not being a lock.

Oct 08, 2018 02:28 PM #102

KU would miss De Sousa's rebounding and energy. He's probably the best rebounder among the Doke/Big Dave/Silvio group.

That said, KU would still be tough because the best 3 players on the team are probably still Grimes, D. Lawson and Doke, and they are all healthy and eligible.

Oct 08, 2018 02:29 PM #103

FF is never a lock unless you are 2012 UK or similar. It's very rare.

Oct 08, 2018 02:30 PM #104

BeddieKU23 said:

If Silvio is found ineligible how can KU keep supporting Adidas? Two players they allegedly paid are now caught up in this scandal.

The problem with ditching Adidas is the entire field is dirty. Nobody is clean. None of this dirty laundry will actually get fixed. SO does KU just go to the next dirty company and hope it doesn't get caught in the cross hairs again? Or stick with the company having its dirty laundry aired out

Gotta see how this all shakes out. As things currently stand, I'd just stick with Adidas.

Oct 08, 2018 02:39 PM #105

dylans said:

@BeddieKU23 Silvio is a very nice backup post player. McCormack is a step down, but a nice backup post player. Mitch is a different type of player and a step down from Silvio, but also a serviceable backup big. It should work out, the team is well constructed.

Arguments could have been made for starting Silvio ahead of Doke.

Oct 08, 2018 03:08 PM #106

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

If Silvio is found ineligible how can KU keep supporting Adidas? Two players they allegedly paid are now caught up in this scandal.

The problem with ditching Adidas is the entire field is dirty. Nobody is clean. None of this dirty laundry will actually get fixed. SO does KU just go to the next dirty company and hope it doesn't get caught in the cross hairs again? Or stick with the company having its dirty laundry aired out

Gotta see how this all shakes out. As things currently stand, I'd just stick with Adidas.

I think KU's name has been put in the ringer enough to run as far away as we can. There is no solution but we can't support a company that's caused this and gotten caught doing so.

Oct 08, 2018 03:09 PM #107

Can't really switch to Nike if the deal isn't as good. Both are dirty and nothing will really change. We just need to get this sham case over with.

Oct 08, 2018 03:12 PM #108

BigBad said:

BeddieKU23 said:

I would hardly call this bunch a Final 4 lock with so many new pieces. A lot of pre-season hype/expectations include Silvio being apart of that. This team may/probably will start two freshman in the backcourt which has its own set of growing pains. I think the sum of all of KU's parts are better then the field but without Silvio its a big dent to the post depth Self was going to have.

Missing DeSousa and having Doke/lawson with McCormack/Lightfoot coming off the bench is still a pretty good 4 man front court rotation.

i agree about the Final 4 not being a lock.

It is a good 4 man rotation. Just having anyone to sub in the post will be a luxury.

Oct 08, 2018 03:16 PM #109

dylans said:

@BeddieKU23 Silvio is a very nice backup post player. McCormack is a step down, but a nice backup post player. Mitch is a different type of player and a step down from Silvio, but also a serviceable backup big. It should work out, the team is well constructed.

Silvio gives the team a dimension no other team outside of Kentucky has, which is a starter level talent as a rotation piece.

When we talk about step down from one player to the next, the gap between Silvio to Mitch/Dave is significant. At least in my opinion its bigger then what some may think. We'll see how it shakes out.

It wouldn't be a KU season without fans worrying about which post player won't be available to play

Oct 08, 2018 03:24 PM #110

@Kcmatt7

I agree overall post depth is not as big of a concern.

If we are talking the difference between an early round exit or a trip to the Final 4 at the moment I would absolutely downgrade the chances of the latter without Silvio. His impact to the team definitely saved last season. I would love to see what impact he could give this team with the roster we have

Oct 08, 2018 03:25 PM #111

@BeddieKU23 Yea at this point switching is a waste. Honestly, this happening probably gave KU a TON of leverage in the new contract and we were able to write in some ridiculous clauses that either protected us from this happening again or at the very least paid the university handsomely if it did.

Oct 08, 2018 03:27 PM #112

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Yea at this point switching is a waste. Honestly, this happening probably gave KU a TON of leverage in the new contract and we were able to write in some ridiculous clauses that either protected us from this happening again or at the very least paid the university handsomely if it did.

What monetary compensation would possibly make up for KU's name being apart of this FBI investigation/trial?

I believe the sum was already well in the 8 figures right? I'm shocked we haven't seen any movement here

Oct 08, 2018 03:36 PM #113

I feel like this topic gets discussed once a year and nothing has changed. KU is not going to switch from Adidas and the $190M contract they have offered. Adidas outfits ALL of our sport teams and no other company is going to do that. I don't think people understand how big of a deal that is. KU is not leaving Adidas unless Nike or Under Armour make a earth shattering offer. Plain and simple.

Oct 08, 2018 03:49 PM #114

@BeddieKU23 I think it will be sort of a blessing in disguise, as I think KJ will pick up minutes at the 4 as well as the 3. This will in turn allow Vick to get more minutes. Lightfoot has certainly earned court time as well. It also accelerates Big Dave's development, which will be important for next year. Yes, Silvio would've been nice, but I think we have plenty of options available who will do an outstanding job.

Oct 08, 2018 03:53 PM #115

BeddieKU23 said:

dylans said:

@BeddieKU23 Silvio is a very nice backup post player. McCormack is a step down, but a nice backup post player. Mitch is a different type of player and a step down from Silvio, but also a serviceable backup big. It should work out, the team is well constructed.

Silvio gives the team a dimension no other team outside of Kentucky has, which is a starter level talent as a rotation piece.

When we talk about step down from one player to the next, the gap between Silvio to Mitch/Dave is significant. At least in my opinion its bigger then what some may think. We'll see how it shakes out.

It wouldn't be a KU season without fans worrying about which post player won't be available to play

It's a huge drop from Silvio. Like you said, he is a starter level player. Dave and Prison Mitch are nice, quality back-ups at this time. I feel Dave can develop into a starter, but obviously not this season. So yeah, good depth and much better than recent years. It just wouldn't be INSANE like it would be with Silvio.

If Silvio can play, KU and UK both have about 7-8 legit high quality starter type players.

Oct 08, 2018 03:58 PM #116

KUSTEVE said:

Lightfoot has certainly earned court time as well.

Has he, though?

!alt text ↗

If Mitch is playing more than 8 minutes a game, something went really wrong IMO. And that's with Silvio at 0 minutes. If Silvio is good to go, Mitch shouldn't play imo.

Oct 08, 2018 04:28 PM #117

KUSTEVE said:

@BeddieKU23 I think it will be sort of a blessing in disguise, as I think KJ will pick up minutes at the 4 as well as the 3. This will in turn allow Vick to get more minutes. Lightfoot has certainly earned court time as well. It also accelerates Big Dave's development, which will be important for next year. Yes, Silvio would've been nice, but I think we have plenty of options available who will do an outstanding job.

I would hope its a blessing in disguise, its better then believing the alternative.

Oct 08, 2018 04:43 PM #118

There is plenty of depth and talent on the roster to absorb Silvio's absence. I think some of you guys are way to high on a super raw 6'7 C. But that's just how I view Silvio. To me, he is just Jamari Traylor 2.0.

Oct 08, 2018 05:13 PM #119

With Silvio KU is a pre-season top 2 team. Without Silvio it’s a pre-season top 5 team. The sky is definitely falling. Lol

Oct 08, 2018 05:15 PM #120

@Kcmatt7 Better than Jamari, but definitely raw. Silvio has more upsides imho. I think he could be one heck of a college player if given the chance. I don’t see how a guy not good enough to start craters your season though.

Oct 08, 2018 07:45 PM #121

Kcmatt7 said:

There is plenty of depth and talent on the roster to absorb Silvio's absence. I think some of you guys are way to high on a super raw 6'7 C. But that's just how I view Silvio. To me, he is just Jamari Traylor 2.0.

Strong disagree. In brief glimpses admittedly Silvio flashed much better than Jamari ever did.

Oct 08, 2018 08:03 PM #122

@BShark I think he is better than Jamari. Silvio is a PLUS rebounder. Like a freak rebounder.

But outside of that, their skill sets are extremely similar. A short Center with a limited offensive game who offers limited rim protection.

Oct 08, 2018 08:34 PM #123

I would classify him as a hybrid of Jamari Traylor and Thomas Robinson. He's more skilled than Traylor I think.

Although it might not matter so.

Oct 08, 2018 08:38 PM #124

@KirkIsMyHinrich Bigger as well which is a plus. But yeah, probably won't matter. :(

Oct 08, 2018 10:58 PM #125

BShark said:

Can't really switch to Nike if the deal isn't as good. Both are dirty and nothing will really change. We just need to get this sham case over with.

BIG BALLER - - WHERE ARE YOU LMAO - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 09, 2018 01:12 AM #126

jayballer73 said:

BIG BALLER - - WHERE ARE YOU ?LMAO - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Well, I just figured BigBaller was a distant member of your family, JayBaller....

Oct 09, 2018 01:13 AM #127

@BShark

I would be surprised if Nike even wants to bid; it already has the big Mid West football programs under contract and while KU is Adidas’ flagship program it would not be Nike’s. That is not to say that Nike would not want to take Adidas top program but not at what Adidas pays, particularly when the football program is in such poor shape.

In any case, KU would be going from one corrupt shoeco to another.

Oct 09, 2018 01:46 AM #128

mayjay said:

jayballer73 said:

BIG BALLER - - WHERE ARE YOU ?LMAO - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Well, I just figured BigBaller was a distant member of your family, JayBaller

Roflmao - -- Touche - -my friend -- Touche - -that was pretty sweet actually - -but UH - - - - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lol

Oct 09, 2018 09:44 AM #129

hmmmm, We'll see what that is all about today

*Dick Vitale

?Verified account @DickieV

A source involved in the @FBI hoops investigation told me there could be some testimony tomorrow that can create a big nightmare for some coaches & schools / stay tuned ! @espn*

Oct 09, 2018 12:41 PM #130

Lol, Vitale.

Oct 09, 2018 01:03 PM #131

BShark said:

Lol, Vitale.

Even better, his next post was saying he's calling the opener vs Michigan St. No surprise but be prepapred

Oct 09, 2018 01:26 PM #132

@BeddieKU23 My mute button is ready! Even if it's only symbolic, since I'll be watching on a computer and just turning the volume down.

Oct 09, 2018 02:35 PM #133

I miss Max. I always muted the tv and listened to Max when he was calling the games.

Oct 09, 2018 03:24 PM #134

dylans said:

I miss Max. I always muted the tv and listened to Max when he was calling the games.

This was very doable with Bob too. Bob was awesome. Hanni...um....I'll just not say anything.

Oct 09, 2018 03:26 PM #135

He's rough. I really, really hope he isn't a lifelong "voice of the jayhawks"

Oct 09, 2018 03:30 PM #136

@BShark Really, my only problem with Hanni is his voice.

Oct 09, 2018 03:30 PM #137

@DanR Seems like a big issue for a radio guy. :joy:

Oct 09, 2018 03:31 PM #138

I like hanni. I've talked to him a few times. Is it his voice? He really does his homework, and he's super friendly and loves his job.

Oct 09, 2018 03:33 PM #139

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I like hanni. I've talked to him a few times. Is it his voice? He really does his homework, and he's super friendly and loves his job.

OTOH "Pooka Bazooka" and all his other nicknames are Dave Armstrong level awful*. His trademark phrases seem really forced too. Not a fan of "Rock Chalk it up". Jmo.

*Anyone else remember Armstrong trying to get "the sheriff" to stick to Cole? Yikes.

Oct 09, 2018 03:33 PM #140

I watch hawk talk and very seldom listen to games. I like Dave Lawrence too.

Oct 09, 2018 03:37 PM #141

@Crimsonorblue22 I agree. He seems to be a decent, happy guy. I like his interviews and even the play by play. I just wish he'd knock off the "practiced" broadcast voice.

Oct 09, 2018 03:38 PM #142

Oh, well I never listen to hawk talk so I don't hear that aspect of Hanni.

Don't disagree about him being a nice guy and definitely into his job (again with the nicknames, maybe too much so, idk).

Oct 09, 2018 03:43 PM #143

You just don't get the feeling of the game from Hanni. When you listened to Bob, you felt like you were there. You could tell the momentum of the game from his voice. You could feel how big a moment was.

Hanni is very monotone and boring and was a really disappointing selection, imo.

Oct 09, 2018 03:44 PM #144

And I can't even watch Hawk Talk anymore because of him. I literally used to sit in my car to listen to it on the radio.

Oct 09, 2018 03:51 PM #145

I guess I'm not easily bothered. I'm more impressed w/his knowledge. Seems to do his homework. I don't care for rock chalk it up, either. Guess you need a signature expression?🤐

Oct 09, 2018 07:44 PM #146

BShark said:

Lol, Vitale.

So, uh, anything happen yet?

Oct 09, 2018 07:51 PM #147

Everything I have read from today has been pretty boring. No new information really. Nothing about KU at all.

Basically just Bowen St. going over and over what he was offered and from whom.

Oct 09, 2018 07:56 PM #148

@Woodrow I'm simply STUNNED that Vitale didn't have the inside scoop.

Oct 09, 2018 07:58 PM #149

?s=21

Governments case is nonsensical

Oct 09, 2018 08:16 PM #150

Do we know who is left to testify?

Oct 09, 2018 08:58 PM #151

Judge told the jury they should get too decide "no later" than Oct 22.

@Kcmatt7 I have not see who is left.

Oct 09, 2018 09:18 PM #152

@Woodrow I wonder if no one in government ever really cared. Maybe the whole prosecution is just a cover for the NCAA to get hold of documents they could never get on their own?

Oct 09, 2018 09:21 PM #153

Woodrow said:

Judge told the jury they should get too decide "no later" than Oct 22.

Since it is all about NCAA rules, I assume the verdict will not be eligible if the jury doesn't get the form filled out and submitted in time.

Oct 09, 2018 10:23 PM #154

mayjay said:

Woodrow said:

Judge told the jury they should get too decide "no later" than Oct 22.

Since it is all about NCAA rules, I assume the verdict will not be eligible if the jury doesn't get the form filled out and submitted in time.

Well done sir !

Oct 09, 2018 10:32 PM #155

@Woodrow

Here is the link ↗ to the story itself.

Oct 10, 2018 10:35 AM #156

@Kcmatt7 Silvio showed some nice post moves in college games with little prep as basically a displaced HS senior. Did jamari ever? I think we will see a much more polished and offensively productive SD this year. His upside is far greater than JT.

Oct 10, 2018 10:39 AM #157

@Kcmatt7 I am with you. Hanni was a terrible hire....terrific guy, but his nasaly whine, annoying voice and cheesy style is as far from Bod Davis as they could have gone. And dont get my started on the grand canyon sized gap from Max to Gurley.

I want Harlen and Piper.

Oct 10, 2018 12:01 PM #158

Harlan would be incredible, but he's also very busy and does NFL, NBA etc... Could be a tough pull.

Oct 10, 2018 12:12 PM #159

We would have had to pay Harlan a good chunk of cash.

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Berlin?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor ↗

I went to high school with this guy and he was a KU grad. And he doesn't sound like Hanni.

Oct 10, 2018 04:25 PM #160

Jeff Smith the compliance director at KU is getting ready to take the stand today.

Oct 10, 2018 04:26 PM #161

Is there a way to watch this?

Oct 10, 2018 04:29 PM #162

@Kcmatt7 not too my knowledge

Oct 10, 2018 05:08 PM #163

As far as I know no media allowed. The one's tweeting about the trial can only do so once their is recess

Oct 10, 2018 05:11 PM #164

You really have to wonder how the NCAA didn't sell the TV rights to ESPN since they have given them a virtual monopoly on everything else about college BB until March.

Oct 10, 2018 05:42 PM #165

No major updates yet today it looks like. De Sousa info will come out either later today or tomorrow after JT Gassnola takes the stand.

Oct 10, 2018 06:54 PM #166

Compliance officer Jeff Smith told the jury that " I didn't know anything about that" when asked about Preston receiving 90,000$.

Also added he didn't know anything about the 20,000$ for SDS. Said he ( I assume KU) learned of payment in April of 2018 and adds that KU is cooperating with prosecution.

Oct 10, 2018 06:58 PM #167

So why did we sit Billy, is the question I want to know. Was it the car not being under Billy or his mom's name or something?

Oct 10, 2018 07:01 PM #168

I mean...you know why @Kcmatt7 lol

Oct 10, 2018 07:06 PM #169

@Kcmatt7 I believe he was talking about the SDS situation when referencing the April 2018 date.

Oct 10, 2018 07:21 PM #170

?s=21

Oct 10, 2018 07:24 PM #171

That's as good of info as you can basically get at this juncture.

"Unlike the Louisville allegations, which seemed far more sordid, the Kansas stuff seemed fairly tame. There wasn't any link between the Adidas money and the Kansas coaches, at least at the trial. As a result the cross-examination of Mr. Smith was fairly uneventful"

Oct 10, 2018 07:43 PM #172

T.J. Gassnola is now on the stand.

Oct 10, 2018 07:52 PM #173

Gassnola told the jury he helped pay five players on the sly. Preston, SDS, Dennis Smith, Brian Bowen, and Desmond Eastmond.

Oct 10, 2018 08:37 PM #174

Woodrow said:

Gassnola told the jury he helped pay five players on the sly. Preston, SDS, Dennis Smith, Brian Bowen, and Desmond Eastmond.

Ayton was the 5th player not Eastmond.

So no we have a he said she said between Gassnola and SDS guardian.

Oct 10, 2018 08:40 PM #175

GULP

?s=21

Oct 10, 2018 08:41 PM #176

@Woodrow "So now we have a he said she said between Gassnola and SDS guardian."

Quick! Get an FBI investigation!

Oh, wait, I think that came first in this case, didn't it?
:face_palm:

Oct 10, 2018 08:46 PM #177

@Woodrow I find nothing scary about that. Adidas guy tells Adidas school staff that he will try to help bring in players already involved with Adidas sponsoring. What else would anyone expect?

On second thought, could that elevate him to position of booster or sanctioned recruiter?

Oct 10, 2018 08:52 PM #178

@mayjay With what we know today it sounds a lot worse because the first thing that will come to most peoples mind when you see "I am here to help" is $$$.

Of course every single shoe company tries to steer kids to schools they sponsor. I just have no doubt that people are going to go and run with that.

Oct 10, 2018 09:19 PM #179

Woodrow said:

GULP

?s=21

Big fat nothing burger, imo.

Wetzel buried the lead and knew exactly what he was doing with that tweet.

Oct 10, 2018 09:21 PM #180

Gassnola was also an AAU coach, so the "report" could be him discussing his players with Self & staff and would keep them informed about any potential new targets, etc. Still no real smoking gun for anyone with half a brain to run with. Of course, that leaves a whole lot of village idiots to point fingers and claim "AHA, I KNEW IT!!"

Oct 10, 2018 09:23 PM #181

Oct 10, 2018 09:28 PM #182

@1JayhawkLifer Well stated.

Oct 10, 2018 11:25 PM #183

?s=21

SDS May have signed a contract with a pro team in Spain... first I’ve heard of this. I’m assuming it was before he enrolled at KU.

Oct 11, 2018 02:05 AM #184

That probably seals the deal for Silvio.

Oct 11, 2018 02:41 AM #185

KUSTEVE said:

That probably seals the deal for Silvio.

I don't think that trial is over

Oct 11, 2018 03:52 AM #186

@KUSTEVE

I would think that just signing a contract per se is not a violation unless money is involved. I am sure Svi signed contracts with the teams he played prior to joining KU but still maintained his amateur status.

Oct 11, 2018 04:34 AM #187

It will be interesting on how this plays out, I believe a Maryland player had the same issue with a pro team contract and was cleared by the NCAA almost instantly. I thought that was one of the issues as to why Silvio wasn’t cleared as soon as he was on campus. At this point it doesn’t sound like they have a whole lot of info against KU. If all that they have is a dad saying stuff, that ain’t much. It’s as simple as this to me “it’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove”. Even if he is right they got to come up with a paper trail or some hard evidence to get anything done. I’m kinda shocked we haven’t heard any of these taped phone conversations that were about money yet. I honestly wonder if they even exist or the media just ran with it because it was a big story. In this day and age you figured that would be leaked by now. I think it looks good that we sat Billy, it wouldn’t make sense to sit one guy that could have issues while playing another. Also it would be sad to vacate 20 games for a kid that played less than 5 minutes in 10 of those games, several he didn’t even record a stat outside of a foul. Let’s be honest Silvio was huge in Kansas City but really didn’t do squat before that and after that outside of the Clemson game. I still question why the stuff that they had on the NIke schools like Wendell Carter of Puke and The OSU coaches hasn’t gotten any further. I realize that’s a different trial than the current one that involves Gato but is there even a ongoing investigation to these claims? Everyone knows Nike is doing the same thing, kinda SMU getting the death penalty while other schools that had guys openly admitting to getting paid got nothing. Its like you have to have a few pawns high up to get away with it. I remember Cal talking about how the NCAA wanted 10x the amount of info at UMass for Camby than the top 5 recruits they get in UK every season. So the question to me is does how far does Coach Ks and Nike’s pull reach? All the way into the court room? I’ve said in the past the NCAA refuses to take down the SEC and ACC, theses are the big money conferences they have amended and changed rules before to help schools out in those conferences. If those guys get involved look for the NCAA to sweep previous offenses under the rug. I personally think guys have been getting paid for over 50 years, heck UK was busted in the 50s for it. They don’t care if you don’t leave it traceable IMO. I still believe this case to be a huge waste of tax payer money, the school shooter Florida was reported several times and ingnored it for months. With all the bs that J Edgar had within the FBI, I think it should be dissolved, I guess that’s an arguement for another time.

Oct 11, 2018 02:29 PM #188

Today is probably the biggest day for KU in the investigation. Defense's turn to go at Gassnola and they will be trying to prove schools aren't victims, meaning Self may be in the crosshairs.

Oct 11, 2018 02:30 PM #189

http://m.kusports.com/news/2018/oct/10/reports-ku-athletics-compliance-director-testifyin/ ↗

Oct 11, 2018 03:26 PM #190

Ok Gassnola's testimony and phone calls/texts are kinda crazy. Sounds like Laranaga and NC State Assist. coaches had direct contact and knowledge. Also sounds like Gassnola is throwing everyone under the bus he possible can. This is probably the most important testimony for both sides.

Oct 11, 2018 03:26 PM #191

Soren Petro crushing it rn

Oct 11, 2018 03:48 PM #192

Kcmatt7 said:

Ok Gassnola's testimony and phone calls/texts are kinda crazy. Sounds like Laranaga and NC State Assist. coaches had direct contact and knowledge. Also sounds like Gassnola is throwing everyone under the bus he possible can. This is probably the most important testimony for both sides.

Given he's already pleaded guilty and has a mutiny of other charges he could be facing in the future, how credible is anything he is going to say without the paper trail going to be believed?

Oct 11, 2018 03:51 PM #193

@BeddieKU23 Many of the things today have been recorded phone calls and text messages. So, pretty believable it seems.

Oct 11, 2018 03:56 PM #194

Things are heating up as expected.

Oct 11, 2018 03:56 PM #195

Today it was shown or said that Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little who then ended up at UNC. As we know this is not just a Adidas problem. Also in light of that makes Roy's comments about being dumbfounded even more laughable.

Oct 11, 2018 03:56 PM #196

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Many of the things today have been recorded phone calls and text messages. So, pretty believable it seems.

Interesting. I'm just wondering how credible he will be, there's a lot going on with this guy

Just reading all the stuff he's done was pretty crazy.
Then find out where he lives is within 30 minutes of my hometown.

My good friend that is connected with Brewster Academy knows TJ, had some unflattering things to say about him and his 'ways'.

Oct 11, 2018 03:57 PM #197

BShark said:

Things are heating up as expected.

Anything good?

Oct 11, 2018 03:57 PM #198

@BeddieKU23 Yea I don't know the credibility. But at this point, they have an Adidas board member emailing him and Gatto and basically saying do whatever you have to.

Oct 11, 2018 03:57 PM #199

Woodrow said:

Today it was shown or said that Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little who then ended up at UNC. As we know this is not just a Adidas problem. Also in light of that makes Roy's comments about being dumbfounded even more laughable.

Only UK hillbillies think Nike isn't involved because loool

Oct 11, 2018 04:02 PM #200

@BeddieKU23 Summary so far:
- Nas Little offered $150k to go to Arizona. Laranaga (supposedly) said they wanted him at Miami, so they ponied up.
- Delivered $40k in cash to NC State Assistant Coach in person.
- Paid $15k to a Deandre Ayton relative to give to Deandre as a sweetener trying to sway him to Adidas.

Oct 11, 2018 04:21 PM #201

So what are the chances Self gets out of today's testimony without any bombshell allegations against him?

Oct 11, 2018 04:23 PM #202

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Summary so far:
- Nas Little offered $150k to go to Arizona. Laranaga (supposedly) said they wanted him at Miami, so they ponied up.
- Delivered $40k in cash to NC State Assistant Coach in person.
- Paid $15k to a Deandre Ayton relative to give to Deandre as a sweetener trying to sway him to Adidas.

Thanks. All this just what TJ is saying or actual evidence supplied in each case?

Oct 11, 2018 04:25 PM #203

BeddieKU23 said:

So what are the chances Self gets out of today's testimony without any bombshell allegations against him?

Looking good so far tbh

Oct 11, 2018 04:31 PM #204

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

So what are the chances Self gets out of today's testimony without any bombshell allegations against him?

Looking good so far tbh

Yeah but they haven't gotten to Silvio, Preston's KU/Adidas involvment yet either it looks. Right?

Oct 11, 2018 04:34 PM #205

@BeddieKU23 Correct. Next update should come around noon when the court goes to lunch break.

Oct 11, 2018 04:51 PM #206

Gassnola testified that SDS was paid $60,000 by a Maryland booster and needed to pay it back in order to go to KU. Gassnola offered $20,000 to help but said he never paid it. Did pay him $2500 on a separate issue.

Oct 11, 2018 04:52 PM #207

Gassnola began making payments to Billy's Mom in the fall of 2016. 4 different wire transfers equaling $90,000.

Oct 11, 2018 04:53 PM #208

Gassnola was adamant that nobody on the KU staff knew about payments.

Oct 11, 2018 04:54 PM #209

?s=21

Oct 11, 2018 04:56 PM #210

?s=21

Wow. Preston’s mom wanted Gassnola to tell people they were intimate to justify payments!

Oct 11, 2018 04:59 PM #211

?s=21

That’s some BS

Oct 11, 2018 04:59 PM #212

Obama towling off dot jpeg

Oct 11, 2018 05:00 PM #213

Woodrow said:

Gassnola was adamant that nobody on the KU staff knew about payments.

Good news

Oct 11, 2018 05:01 PM #214

BeddieKU23 said:

Woodrow said:

Gassnola was adamant that nobody on the KU staff knew about payments.

Good news

Bulletproof Bill. Whewww

Oct 11, 2018 05:02 PM #215

Woodrow said:

Gassnola testified that SDS was paid $60,000 by a Maryland booster and needed to pay it back in order to go to KU. Gassnola offered $20,000 to help but said he never paid it. Did pay him $2500 on a separate issue.

Payed Fenny?

Oct 11, 2018 05:03 PM #216

Looks like we may have gotten past the worst of it. And came out looking pretty damn clean... Of course, 11 days still left and I don't want to speak too soon.

Oct 11, 2018 05:04 PM #217

Imagine being a Maryland fan that thinks Bruno wasn't paid.

Oct 11, 2018 05:05 PM #218

BShark said:

Imagine being a Maryland fan that thinks Bruno wasn't paid.

Jeff about to go nuclear on KU over it lol

Oct 11, 2018 05:06 PM #219

Sounds like Nicole Player Billy's mom is a really piece of work. Also scum.

Oct 11, 2018 05:07 PM #220

Woodrow said:

Sounds like Nicole Player Billy's mom is a really piece of work. Also scum.

Her son is Jesus so yeah this isn't groundbreaking.

Why we ever recruited him to begin with is really the bigger problem. His issues were well known

Oct 11, 2018 05:08 PM #221

So Gassnola says he never gave 20k to Fenny but gave him 2500 for online courses. Also says none of this was discussed with KU coaches. Interesting stuff

Oct 11, 2018 05:08 PM #222

@BeddieKU23 He doesn't come here if Ayton doesn't get a shit ton of cash to go to Arizona.

Oct 11, 2018 05:08 PM #223

@BeddieKU23 Of course we would still be in the same boat if we landed Ayton apparently.

Oct 11, 2018 05:09 PM #224

Woodrow said:

Sounds like Nicole Player Billy's mom is a really piece of work. Also scum.

Well, yeah lol.

Oct 11, 2018 05:09 PM #225

But $2,500 sure seems like we could get out of that one. 3 game suspension lol. Whatever Sexton got.

Oct 11, 2018 05:09 PM #226

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Of course we would still be in the same boat if we landed Ayton apparently.

Yep. Would prob have a title tho.

Oct 11, 2018 05:10 PM #227

Kcmatt7 said:

But $2,500 sure seems like we could get out of that one. 3 game suspension lol. Whatever Sexton got.

Did the 2500 help him become eligible academically. Could be a bigger issue?? Honestly don't know

Oct 11, 2018 05:10 PM #228

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Of course we would still be in the same boat if we landed Ayton apparently.

Yep. Would prob have a title tho.

Don't even let me start thinking about that lol.

Oct 11, 2018 05:10 PM #229

Kcmatt7 said:

But $2,500 sure seems like we could get out of that one. 3 game suspension lol. Whatever Sexton got.

Collin on the payroll Sexton no less loool

Oct 11, 2018 05:11 PM #230

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Of course we would still be in the same boat if we landed Ayton apparently.

While true we were the only real blue blood to sniff around his recruitment for years. How we didn't take the high road on his issues is beyond me. Why were other coaches smarter?

Oct 11, 2018 05:11 PM #231

Dan Wolken from the USA Today is going in on Self. I guess I fail to understand why... Seems to me Self and KU so far look fine.

Oct 11, 2018 05:11 PM #232

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Of course we would still be in the same boat if we landed Ayton apparently.

Yep. Would prob have a title tho.

Don't even let me start thinking about that lol.

I have almost no doubt. Imagine swapping doke and Ayton. Playing full tilt.

Oct 11, 2018 05:12 PM #233

Woodrow said:

Dan Wolken from the USA Today is going in on Self. I guess I fail to understand why... Seems to me Self and KU so far look fine.

Wolken is a turd

Oct 11, 2018 05:12 PM #234

@BeddieKU23 I think Bill just recruits who he likes, period. And has faith in his staff that they won't do anything shady so that nothing falls back on them regardless of how idiotic parents and family can be.

Oct 11, 2018 05:13 PM #235

@BShark It is like he doesn't understand that Preston never played.

Oct 11, 2018 05:15 PM #236

My dislike for Wolken greatly predates today btw

Oct 11, 2018 05:16 PM #237

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 I think Bill just recruits who he likes, period. And has faith in his staff that they won't do anything shady so that nothing falls back on them regardless of how idiotic parents and family can be.

Preston had a lot of well known issues without his family being involved. Bouncing high schools, character flags, academics to name a few. We truly bent down to get him to play here. The reward has been what?

I guess my point is we recruit some high level character players that seem to reflect the character of our coach. When we recruit the Preston's of the world I don't understand the logic.

Oct 11, 2018 05:17 PM #238

@BShark Oh I know.

Oct 11, 2018 05:17 PM #239

If Preston doesn't wreck the car does he play?

Oct 11, 2018 05:18 PM #240

BigBad said:

If Preston doesn't wreck the car does he play?

I believe so, he also had a curfew issue but that was just a 1 game thing right?

Oct 11, 2018 05:19 PM #241

@BigBad I think probably. Compliance probably doesn't even take a look at it unless something happens and they have to cover their asses. Like a police report where a Charger is crashed and it not belonging to Billy himself.

Oct 11, 2018 05:22 PM #242

BeddieKU23 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 I think Bill just recruits who he likes, period. And has faith in his staff that they won't do anything shady so that nothing falls back on them regardless of how idiotic parents and family can be.

Preston had a lot of well known issues without his family being involved. Bouncing high schools, character flags, academics to name a few. We truly bent down to get him to play here. The reward has been what?

I guess my point is we recruit some high level character players that seem to reflect the character of our coach. When we recruit the Preston's of the world I don't understand the logic.

Desperation.

Oct 11, 2018 05:23 PM #243

Kcmatt7 said:

@BigBad Compliance probably doesn't even take a look at it unless something happens

So if a basketball playing freshman shows up in a brand new Mercedes Benz does it get "looked at"?

Oct 11, 2018 05:26 PM #244

BigBad said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@BigBad Compliance probably doesn't even take a look at it unless something happens

So if a basketball playing freshman shows up in a brand new Mercedes Benz does it get "looked at"?

Winks and nods

Oct 11, 2018 05:29 PM #245

@BShark

Very true. We survived without.

At least since Preston, KU has signed high character players (that we know of)

Oct 11, 2018 05:31 PM #246

Gassnola testified that he paid $2,500 to Silvio De Sousa’s guardian and that he became aware that a University of Maryland booster was providing $60,000 to De Sousa’s guardian, Fenny Falmagne. Gassnola was set on trying to pay $20,000 to Falmagne — then the FBI case went public.

— Matt Norlander (@MattNorlander) October 11, 2018
Gassnola recruited De Sousa to play at Kansas but did NOT pay the $20,000.

Relationship began after KU asst Kurtis Townsend asked Gassnola to connect Falmagne with Adidas, as Falmagne was looking for the Angolan Natl Team to get product/gear from Adidas.

— Matt Norlander (@MattNorlander) October 11, 2018
Gassnola said he had a “brief, brief conversation” with Bill Swf about this but said he kept payments to De Sousa’s guardian secret from Self and Townsend.

— Matt Norlander (@MattNorlander) October 11, 2018

Oct 11, 2018 05:46 PM #247

Preston’s eligibility was in question at Kansas first because of a car mishap. The car was a Dodge Charger that the defense said belonged to Preston’s late grandmother.
Kansas accepted the car situation but was pressing Preston’s mother about if she received money elsewhere.
— Matt Norlander (@MattNorlander)

That is good news and they obviously didnt believe her.

Oct 11, 2018 05:58 PM #248

BShark said:

My dislike for Wolken greatly predates today btw

Absolutely is a turd bucket

Oct 11, 2018 06:02 PM #249

So we officially learn the car Billy Preston had/crashed was in his gradmother's name who passed away in Florida.

Remember that daily fiasco trying to figure out who owned the car etc.

Preston's momma a real piece of work. Glad KU saw through her

Oct 11, 2018 07:11 PM #250

calm down and let this stuff play out. When it's all said and done Kansas will be pretty much cleared of any real wrongdoing and will probably just get a slap on the wrist the dude on the stand today admitted he never told the university about whatever he was doing behind the scenes. And ultimately the FBI can't provide an actual paper trail of the University or the staff discussing payments you cant assume that any of that took place at least until this point. Furthermore I think schools like Louisville and Arizona are going to get hammered because they were a lot more sloppy with how they conducted business we will be fine.

Oct 11, 2018 08:23 PM #251

?s=21

Sounds like the afternoon session was a waste of time

Oct 11, 2018 08:25 PM #252

?s=21

Was this though

Oct 11, 2018 08:28 PM #253

Alledgedly Diamond Stone's High School coach was seeking $150,000 in order to recruit him for Adidas. Gassnola said Adidas did not pursue such a high number. Stone play at Maryland.

Oct 11, 2018 08:38 PM #254

Woodrow said:

?s=21

Was this though

Yikes. I hate that it’s not Nike and not football. This sucks!

Oct 11, 2018 08:41 PM #255

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

Dan Wolken from the USA Today is going in on Self. I guess I fail to understand why... Seems to me Self and KU so far look fine.

Wolken is a turd

I haven't seen anything other than a sassy twitter post. What's he doing?

Oct 11, 2018 08:42 PM #256

@KirkIsMyHinrich I'm saying in general. He got miffed like a little beyotch last year when Self gave him the cold shoulder in Chicago among other things.

Oct 11, 2018 08:50 PM #257

Omg Slater is amazing

Oct 11, 2018 09:15 PM #258

?s=21

Wow. What a POS

Oct 11, 2018 09:25 PM #259

matt norlander @mattnorlander 14m
poring through notes, there also this: texts retrieved in this case have billy preston"s mother texting preston and giving directions to her son about how to obstruct ku;s investigation if and wgen they ask preston who t.j. gassnola is.

Oct 11, 2018 09:32 PM #260

I really don't think anything today worries me to this point. People are saying KT was involved because with Gassnola but Gassnola was a AAU coach. Which I'm sure most D1 staffs have contacts with. If anything SDS only supposedly getting 2500 dollars looks better than 20k or 60k that was alleged, especially if he paid back Maryland or didnt take their money. Selby basically got 1500 from AAU coach and had to sit the first 9 games so him missing the first half of the season could be a worthy punishment if they can even prove that he got anything. @JAYHAWKFAN214 Interesting that Billy was trying to play us, no wonder his attitude was so good according to HCBS, he knew he screw up lol.

Oct 11, 2018 09:47 PM #261

Nolander's tweet about how Preston received the money after attending KU is interesting. But it certainly sounds like everyone is adamantly saying Self and staff were not in the know, so I guess it doesn't matter one way or the other.

Oct 11, 2018 09:53 PM #262

Kcmatt7 said:

Nolander's tweet about how Preston received the money after attending KU is interesting. But it certainly sounds like everyone is adamantly saying Self and staff were not in the know, so I guess it doesn't matter one way or the other.

Well I mean Billy got a text from his mom about hiding information from KU. So far so good.

Oct 12, 2018 02:48 AM #263

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24960936/adidas-consultant-details-payments-influence-dennis-smith-jr-two-kansas-players ↗

Oct 12, 2018 03:22 AM #264

So what does this trial mean for KU and the big Adidas contract? Obviously Nike is dirty is too but doesn’t look like anyone cares.

Oct 12, 2018 04:00 AM #265

Preston never suited up for KU. You all know that. What ever comes out of this trial against Preston and his fam is really not KU's concern, or ours.
Coach Self held him out of games on purpose.

Now, Silvio on the other hand. Self let him play. Now, THAT is what I am worried about. But, I also trust Coach Self. He would not have let Silvio play
if he thought for one second that he wasn't eligible or that it would hurt the KU program some how.

Oct 12, 2018 10:20 AM #266

Blurb on the Spanish Pro Team talk that popped up about De Sousa. Looks like that issue has already been cleared by KU & NCAA. Explains why it took so long to get his amateurism cleared

Also Wednesday, while a KU compliance director took the witness stand, he was asked by a defense attorney about De Sousa at one point signing a contract with a pro team in Spain. But a U.S. assistant district attorney told the court that KU obtained NCAA clearance after including evidence from handwriting experts who could not conclude the signature on that contract and another with a sports agent was not De Sousa’s.

Oct 12, 2018 11:36 AM #267

@BigBad Thank God Billy sucks as a driver!

Oct 12, 2018 11:46 AM #268

Wetzel's latest article on the trial doesn't make us sound very good.

Oct 12, 2018 12:08 PM #269

wissox said:

Wetzel's latest article on the trial doesn't make us sound very good.

A lot better then what Pat Forde would have wrote

Oct 12, 2018 12:27 PM #270

Wetzel has seemed pretty unbiased through the process. No issues with anything he wrote. If we have to give up games because of De Sousa, it will suck but it is what it is. Crappy way to end the streak. But it would almost be poetic. For years we all talked about the pressure of the streak. If we lost it this way instead of actually losing it, seems like it could almost be a good thing. Now the focus can be winning another NC. And no team had to go through the embarrassment of blowing the streak.

Oct 12, 2018 12:59 PM #271

@Lulufulu Self let SDS play because he was CLEARED by the NCAA.

Oct 12, 2018 01:01 PM #272

@Woodrow I still think games will be taken away from KU if Fenny can't prove he didn't take more than the $2,500

Oct 12, 2018 01:03 PM #273

Shouldn't burden of proof be on him being given the money?

Oct 12, 2018 01:03 PM #274

@Kcmatt7 I don’t. The NCAA cleared him. Worse case scenario he is ineligible this year or forever. My best guess is he is suspended for 5-9 games.

Oct 12, 2018 01:05 PM #275

@Woodrow I think that is probably the most likely scenario as well.

@BShark At this point, I think the NCAA can probably put the burden on Fenny. This isn't a criminal trial. This isn't innocent until proven guilty at this point either. They have legit reasons to ask Fenny to prove he didn't take any money.

Oct 12, 2018 01:08 PM #276

I have followed this pretty closely but I don’t recall there being a money trail proving Fenny took anything. He claims he didn’t ( obviously). To suspend him I would think they would have to have some sort of paper trail of the deposits.

His situation is totally different it seems than Billy’s. There is a trail , text messages , etc...

Oct 12, 2018 01:10 PM #277

Yeah idk, what a mess. I am slightly more hopeful Silvio plays though. We will see what shakes out during the rest of the trial.

Oct 12, 2018 01:11 PM #278

@Woodrow I mean having a credible source, under oath, say he gave Fenny money is a pretty good start to a trail. If Fenny didn't take money, just show your bank accounts. It isn't that hard. If he did nothing wrong, just come out and prove it.

I'd show you mine right now. It's not impressive and I have nothing to hide.

Oct 12, 2018 03:08 PM #279

The $2,500 aside, it could be the Maryland fan paid the workout guy directly and there is no paper trail involving the mentor. However, if SDS did train with the coach, there’s still the issue of how that all worked. It couldn’t have been free.

Oct 12, 2018 03:17 PM #280

@BeddieKU23 Ford is about the worst major sportswriter out there. I really wonder how people like him, or announcers like Dakich have jobs like they do. People nationwide have opinions like this about these guys and Yahoo and ESPN have got to know it.

@Kcmatt7 I agree, I wasn't trying to cast shade on Wetzels reporting. He's really good, deserves a better platform than Yahoo.

Oct 12, 2018 04:42 PM #281

looooooooooool

Oct 12, 2018 05:25 PM #282

Coaches saying there are not aware there is a lot of cheating going on in college sports reminds me of [this little gem...](

Coaches are not that naive, I am sure most are generally aware of the cheating going on in college sports but realize it is the reality of the game and choose to not be directly involved and have plausible deniability.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that affects KU is the $2,500 Silvio's guardian received for either on-line classes or to repay the Maryland booster. In the big scheme of things it is a minor amount that if repaid (to whom it would be???) it would result in a slap in the wrist and maybe a 2-3 game suspension.

KU seems to be pretty much in the clear vis-à-vis Preston since all the clowns involved actively worked to keep KU in the dark and KU acted prudently by holding him as soon as it had a suspicion of wrong doing and he did not play a single game for KU.

Oct 13, 2018 07:40 PM #283

?s=21

Case might be over this week

Oct 15, 2018 03:12 PM #284

?s=21

Oct 15, 2018 03:21 PM #285

@Woodrow

When a school signs with an apparel firm for sponsorship there is an implicit understanding that it will help steer prospects to the school and I am sure coaches from Nike sponsored programs call Nike as well when it helps with a prospect. There is nothing to indicate or even imply that KU knew Adidas was doing anything illegal which in Silvio's case amounted to all of $2,500.

Oct 15, 2018 03:44 PM #286

That's pretty not great for optics but shouldn't hang Self.

Oct 15, 2018 04:48 PM #287

Yea this was probably the biggest blow I've heard so far.

Oct 15, 2018 04:53 PM #288

Kcmatt7 said:

Yea this was probably the biggest blow I've heard so far.

Which is still basically nothing, so that's pretty great.

Oct 15, 2018 05:04 PM #289

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220042375.html ↗

Oct 15, 2018 05:09 PM #290

Not a good look

Oct 15, 2018 05:10 PM #291

The Coaches definitely seem more involved than I had hoped from that Star Article.

Oct 15, 2018 05:10 PM #292

Pretty easy to infer shit here. Like, it's obvious now, but legally it seems unlikely anything will happen as of now.

Oct 15, 2018 05:24 PM #293

Per Zags

TJ Gassnola is done testifying and the judge told the jury they should be ready to deliberate this week

Oct 15, 2018 05:48 PM #294

I think today was the worse day for Self and KU. I don't think there is anything there to vacate wins, fire Self, or anything like that. However, those text exchanges as @BShark said do not reflect well on Self.

Oct 15, 2018 05:57 PM #295

At minimum Self and his coaches were well aware of the bag man for Adidas. SMH

Oct 15, 2018 05:59 PM #296

@BeddieKU23 Well I mean, are you surprised? I'm not.

Oct 15, 2018 06:16 PM #297

Gotta love the Star...!0_1539627533980_71AD54FF-2C08-4669-959C-73FFDBD7CDA5.jpeg ↗

Oct 15, 2018 06:19 PM #298

dylans said:

Gotta love the Star...!0_1539627533980_71AD54FF-2C08-4669-959C-73FFDBD7CDA5.jpeg ↗

WE ALL KNOW HOW THE STAR LIKE TO GO ACTOR KU

Oct 15, 2018 06:35 PM #299

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 Well I mean, are you surprised? I'm not.

I'm not surprised at all. I'm just disappointed, very disappointed to say the least

Oct 15, 2018 08:38 PM #300

?s=21

Oct 15, 2018 08:43 PM #301

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/texts-between-kansas-coach-bill-self-and-ex-adidas-rep-show-how-high-level-college-basketball-recruiting-works/ ↗

Oct 15, 2018 08:52 PM #302

Yawn at all this. It’s not exactly breaking news that shoe companies steer kids to their flagship schools. There’s not really even a NCAA violation here, at least nothing that will jeopardize anyone affiliated with KU.

Oct 15, 2018 09:28 PM #303

It seems like the coaches knew about payments. The good news is that Gassnola testified that he didn't think the Kansas coaches knew. So I believe it will be hard for the NCAA to hang anything major on Kansas.

I'm disappointed in Kansas too, but I'm also disappointed in the You-Have-To-Be-19-Years-Old-To-Play-In-The-NBA rule, and the NCAA model that's driving these kinds of behind-the-scenes payments. A highly ranked basketball or football recruit is worth more than a one-year scholarship. Some of them are worth a lot more than a one-year scholarship, but that player's market value is being restricted by the NCAA while and even before that player attends a university. These top athletes are very valuable to Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, etc. even as teenagers because they have the potential to be the next LeBron James or Steph Curry or insert NBA Super Star and sell a bunch of shoes and merchandise. As universities are allowed to sign large multi-million dollar contracts with these apparel companies , there is a major incentive for Adidas to direct top recruits to Kansas, or Nike to direct top recruits to Kentucky or Duke. A commitment of a player to a branded university is a major step in a commitment of a player to a brand, though not always (see: Joel Embiid and Under Armour).

So all of you here probably know this, and you might reasonably say that nobody is forcing these kids to go to college. The major problem I have with this is that college basketball is by far the best way for a high-profile recruit to showcase their talent and get drafted into the NBA. In the 2018 NBA draft, 52 out of the 60 players taken played college basketball. The 8 that did not, I'm not totally sure, but am willing to wager that none or a small fraction of them were American-born. What I'm saying here is that a high-profile recruit who doesn't choose to go to college can seriously jeopardize his NBA draft position and potentially miss out on being drafted or lose millions of dollars down the road due to lack of media exposure and NBA teams not wanting to take a chance on an unproven recruit. In short, I don't like that the NCAA monopolizes high-profile basketball recruits due to a lack of alternatives for that recruit other than college basketball and at the same time restricts their true market value.

Oct 15, 2018 09:31 PM #304

@KirkIsMyHinrich josh Jackson, under armour as well.

Oct 15, 2018 09:31 PM #305

Unless Gassnola perjured himself, nobody under the KU banner knew.

Oct 15, 2018 09:35 PM #306

@FarmerJayhawk Do you really believe that?

Oct 15, 2018 09:38 PM #307

What am I missing? I just don't see any thing that even resembles any NCAA rule breaking or the law. I would certainly expect Adidas to help KU with recruiting as part of the sponsorship deal. If Adidas is not going to help then why sign with them? I am sure Nike and Under Armour do their best to steer kids in the direction of programs they sponsor and as long as they do not do any thing that breaks NCAA rules or the law, it is all good...why wouldn't it be?

Otto von Bismarck said...Laws are like sausages. Better not to see them being made...which would also seem to apply to recruiting. There is a good deal of action going on that we really don't want to see but it is the reality of recruiting.

Oct 15, 2018 09:40 PM #308

The Gary Parrish article is pretty good tbh.

Oct 15, 2018 09:40 PM #309

@KirkIsMyHinrich it doesn’t matter what I believe. What incentive does he have to lie? Making coaches aware of payments isn’t illegal. Perjury is.

Oct 15, 2018 09:41 PM #310

@FarmerJayhawk Agreed which is why I said I don't think KU will get into any major trouble here. But I still am disappointed.

Oct 15, 2018 09:42 PM #311
  • One and Done

  • World Wide Wes - Zero investigations

  • Shoe Companies running rampant

Perfect Storm

I'm honestly ready for REAL student athletes again. Let the "studs" go pro out of high school. If they are not drafted I DON'T CARE! Go to Europe or join the real world. Guys will argue they should get reinstated. No way. You do that and the next market is agents who will sign kids they know wont make the NBA right out of high school then herd them to colleges with who they have relationships. So replace the current shoe companies with slime ball agents.

Oct 15, 2018 10:06 PM #312

I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment ↗

Oct 15, 2018 10:09 PM #313

approxinfinity said:

I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment ↗

WE ALREADY KNOW THIS

Oct 15, 2018 10:32 PM #314

approxinfinity said:

I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment ↗

The texts involving self are new.

Oct 15, 2018 10:32 PM #315

approxinfinity said:

I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment ↗

Yeah everything today was known, it's basically just being confirmed with evidence.

Oct 15, 2018 10:32 PM #316

BeddieKU23 said:

approxinfinity said:

I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment ↗

The texts involving self are new.

But still just confirming previous claims that Gassnola chatted with Self/KT frequently.

Oct 15, 2018 10:38 PM #317

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

approxinfinity said:

I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment ↗

The texts involving self are new.

But still just confirming previous claims that Gassnola chatted with Self/KT frequently.

I had no issue with that part however the texts do imply a lot more involvement with Self and thats just sad. Oh well onward and upward

Oct 15, 2018 11:46 PM #318

The shoe companies pay universities millions, and they do a huge amount of recruiting for them. none of this comes as any surprise. Is the Adidas rep supposed to recruit a player and not discuss them with the coach? As long as Bill and staff aren't facilitating payments, it has nothing to do with us if the athlete and the shoe company make an arrangement. Look back at Dook ...for years, they could not recruit a big man to save their life. Now, they get the top 3 front line players, after having lottery pick Bagley and lottery pick Wendel Carter on their front line last year. Nike recruited them, and handed them to Dook. Alot of this nonsense will end once they allow athletes to go pro out of high school.

Oct 16, 2018 12:02 AM #319

@KirkIsMyHinrich If Bill was "in the know", then why did Billy's mom go to such lengths to avoid detection? Why would she tell her son to lie if Bill knew? Why would the Adidas guy make such an adamant point to proclaim Bill's innocence on the subject in court, under threat of perjury? Unless you have something we don't know about, it would appear you are speculating. My take is...nobody threatened Bill with not playing Preston. Preston wasn't declared ineligible. He wasn't "ordered" to not play him. When something came out, he made the family prove it wasn't an illegal benefit, which they couldn't. And Preston didn't play a second, even though he could've helped us alot. That doesn't seem to me like a guilty guy who doesn't care about the rules, nudging and winking at the Adidas rep over a 2,500 payment to Silvio. So, do you really think Bill would involve himself in something like that?

Oct 16, 2018 12:16 AM #320

Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.

Oct 16, 2018 12:29 AM #321

@KUSTEVE And as nutty as Billy's mom appears you'd think she would have zero issues blaming Self and KU.

Oct 16, 2018 12:30 AM #322

@kjayhawks Good point. She even blamed all the fans for having suspicions!

Oct 16, 2018 12:43 AM #323

mayjay said:

Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.

Self will be fine at the end of this unless something new and crazy comes out. Which I do not expect to happen.

Oct 16, 2018 01:49 AM #324

Its simply optics anyone is worried about. That's all. Nobody is shocked. Most people probably realize it happens at all the schools. It doesn't appear Self broke any rules. But it also just doesn't look good.

Oct 16, 2018 02:05 AM #325

Optics don’t win basketball games. This whole deal is actually pretty good timing considering the season starts in less than two weeks and then people forget by signing day.

Oct 16, 2018 04:18 AM #326

I’d say Self is fine at this point, Gassnola probably wouldn’t lie under oath to protect Self. He has no reason too. As @KUSTEVE said why was Billy’s mom trying to hide her payments from Self and KU if he already knew. Once Gassnola was a AAU coach that has a lotta connections, every D1coach has a guy in the background doing recruiting. I’m ready for this to be over and the NCAA to change stuff so this doesn’t happen again.

Oct 16, 2018 12:34 PM #327

To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.

Oct 16, 2018 12:53 PM #328

SkinnyKansasDude said:

To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.

This is a great point. If KU were to field a team of players that didn't take money, they'd be the worst team in the B12.

Oct 16, 2018 03:16 PM #329

@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn't care if you don't leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn't when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today's game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.

Oct 16, 2018 03:26 PM #330

kjayhawks said:

@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn't care if you don't leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn't when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today's game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.

Of course. Don't ask, don't tell.

I'm sure KU players paid for their brand new car totally on their own though. A lot of stuff that happens is totally legal like the parents of players being employed (and overpaid) by alumni but not directly attached to the university.

Agree, college athletics have been dirty the entire time. All the way back to the 40s or w/e. We know Wooden was dirty and like you said UK as well.

Oct 16, 2018 03:45 PM #331

@BShark So, apparently lack of money explains the football team, perennially last in the Big 12. Nice to be the honest ones!

Oct 16, 2018 03:56 PM #332

@BShark you think hidden gems like DG and frank were paid?

Oct 16, 2018 03:58 PM #333

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark you think hidden gems like DG and frank were paid?

Yes. No doubt.

Oct 16, 2018 06:21 PM #334

!alt text ↗

!alt text ↗

Oct 16, 2018 07:07 PM #335

Adam Zagoria
‏Verified account @AdamZagoria
23s24 seconds ago

Update from the trial: defendants Gatto, Dawkins and Code all elected not to testify

Jury will hear closing arguments Wednesday- Thursday and could reach a verdict as early as Thursday. Otherwise it will go into next week.

Oct 16, 2018 08:39 PM #336

@Crimsonorblue22 Definitely paid by someone. Butler CC football players find envelopes of cash in their mailboxes.

Oct 16, 2018 08:56 PM #337

@JayHawkFanToo Great Movie!

Oct 16, 2018 09:46 PM #338

Barney said:

@JayHawkFanToo Great Movie!

A classic, no doubt :smile:

Oct 16, 2018 10:24 PM #339

Shit

Oct 16, 2018 10:29 PM #340

It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.

Oct 16, 2018 10:31 PM #341

FarmerJayhawk said:

It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.

I mean it's Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.

What is there isn't anything KU hasn't done before, it's just KT saying he will get it done is a bit dicey, imo.

Oct 16, 2018 10:33 PM #342

Also in that thread, Will Wade incriminating himself. Very interesting that these weren't allowed in court.

Oct 16, 2018 10:35 PM #343

BShark said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.

I mean it's Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.

Lol apparently you’ve never worked in politics. Everything is spinnable. For example, Townsend is simply speaking about figuring out how to do it legally. “Some way” doesn’t mean against NCAA rules at all. It doesn’t have nearly enough context to draw any kind of certain inference. The federal government maintains KU was not complicit in any illegal activity.

No context = no intent.

Oct 16, 2018 10:48 PM #344

@FarmerJayhawk Agreed. If that was what it would take to get him to KU, it is obvious that we didn't do it.

Oct 16, 2018 11:21 PM #345

@BShark

Without context it is hard to tell what the gist of the entire conversation was; it is interesting and telling it was not admitted as evidence. In any case, KT never mentions money just says:

"I've got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that's what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we're going to have to do it some way."

He could easily explain it away by saying he was talking about legal, NCAA compliant means rather than cash and because KU/Adidas would not pay Williamson did not come to KU...Duke, on the other hand, now has some 'splaining to do.

Oct 17, 2018 12:04 AM #346

I mean that is a terrible look for Duke as well. It’s fairly clear they met the demands of Zion and his family.

Oct 17, 2018 01:55 AM #347

Lol Coach K saying he wasn't worried about it... Jay Williams said on air he was paid while at Duke and everyone else he knew was paid. He said his former agency paid Kevin Love's AAU Coach $250k.

Oct 17, 2018 04:34 AM #348

@Kcmatt7 it obvious Duke and UK are forking out some serious cash, I believe they are the only schools that have signed multiple top 25 recruits the each last 10 classes. If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.

Oct 17, 2018 02:26 PM #349

kjayhawks said:

If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.

Actually, it's a car full of cash and they all got to keep the car - a BMW, I believe.

Oct 17, 2018 02:28 PM #350

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-even-dare-investigate-zion-williamson-now-hes-duke-043518120.html ↗

Good article here by Wetzel...

Oct 17, 2018 02:47 PM #351

@Woodrow That first quote of KT's does tend to look bad, but I am puzzled by something.

He is talking to Adidas, which has been providing cash to players. So why does KT say he himself has to work something out rather than simply suggesting that Adidas work something out?

Oct 17, 2018 02:56 PM #352

@mayjay Because Zion's Dad also wanted a "job" and a car. So I am assuming KT had to go to the boosters to try and secure those...

Also I just read where Zion's family is living in a $800,000 house outside Durham.

Oct 17, 2018 03:04 PM #353

@Woodrow Link?

Oct 17, 2018 03:05 PM #354

@Woodrow I'm sure Zion's parents were saving up!

@Kcmatt7 Internet rumor mill, but it probably isn't wrong.

Oct 17, 2018 03:08 PM #355

@Woodrow Wouldn't he have said something more directly on point? And couldn't Adidas, willing to float hundreds of thousands of dollar, arrange for a car and job easily enough?

Oct 17, 2018 03:12 PM #356

@mayjay I am not going to pretend to understand how this business of recruiting works, but I would think ( and have heard) that it is usually the team that sets up housing and cars.

How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those...??

Oct 17, 2018 03:20 PM #357

Woodrow said:

How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those...??

And have nice new cars. Plus a cushy job that is completely legal and not directly attached to KU in most cases (Ronnie Chalmers an obvious exception here).

Oct 17, 2018 03:25 PM #358

Tyshawn's mom worked at Hyvee, angel was an apt complex manager, cole's dad worked here. None were cushy jobs.

Oct 17, 2018 03:26 PM #359

@Woodrow Thank you very much for sharing this article. It brings up a very very interesting question.

IF KU really truly offered Zion illegal benefits then how and why did he end up at Duke? He just really wanted to play at Cameron for the one year he is required to play before going pro? Something to think about.

I have personally always assumed that the major programs "cheated" to get the top guys, KU included. I have also always assumed that the major programs with the major players are what fans want to see and this is how the NCAA makes the most money. Based on this I highly doubt that the hammer is dropped on KU or Duke or Zona or anyone else involved in this current situation. Where would the investigation go from here? What about football? That is the more lucrative sport and there is simply no way that the top programs are "clean".

It is an unfortunate reality as a fan but life is full of unfortunate realizations. I will personally watch every game this year as I always do. It may be a bit more tainted now that the veil has been pulled away but it is what it is. Real life is hard and I personally need the escape of college basketball.

Oct 17, 2018 03:32 PM #360

@Woodrow Incidentally, every single story I have seen on this conversation is based entirely on Dan Wetzel's tweets. Since TV was prohibited from this trial, did Wetzel record the reading of the transcrpt on his phone? Try to transcribe it? I know how hard it is to accruately transcribe in real time--my hearings were tape-recorded and I often had to replay the tape to get it accurate.

Assuming Wetzel did not have a recording or access to the transcrpt itself, the quotes he tweeted might have been truncated to make KT sound worse. But that is only one possibility--the actual words could also have been much worse.

And the transcription could also have been inaccurate. Unlikely, but I had a military client who contended that his record of trial was inaccurate. I asked him how so, and he said that in the 45 pages covering his guilty plea, he had really said "no" every time the judge asked if he did something alleged in the indictment, and they just ignored him the whole time. He denied drawing the map showing his crime, he denied signing his confession, he denied agreeing to his plea bargain....

Oct 17, 2018 04:35 PM #361

@Woodrow Very good read and I agree with it. They have let Coach K and Dook do whatever they pleased for decades based off of his image. I don't think the NCAA has the balls to take down a high profile coach like that.

Oct 17, 2018 04:40 PM #362

@kjayhawks Not only Coach K but Duke as a program. You take away all the blue bloods and the market for the game and tournament plummets. You know what else plummets... The money!

Oct 17, 2018 04:40 PM #363

@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn't even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.

Oct 17, 2018 04:41 PM #364

@Woodrow Yep, they ain't gonna bite the hands thats feeding them. They can say they are for the athletes or who ever but they are about money just like everyone else in this world, not limited but including our government.

Oct 17, 2018 04:45 PM #365

kjayhawks said:

@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn't even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that it only goes on at KU. It is wide-spread.

Oct 17, 2018 04:51 PM #366

@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can't believe there wouldn't be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.

Oct 17, 2018 04:52 PM #367

mayjay said:

@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can't believe there wouldn't be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.

Well it's not just the elite players getting paid.

The walk-ons are a different animal though. One could even say, they have the opposite role of the scholarship players.

Oct 17, 2018 04:59 PM #368

Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn't the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.

Oct 17, 2018 05:00 PM #369

mayjay said:

Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn't the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.

I would say they want it in the dark to maintain the facade of amateur athletics. More people stay happy this way and the players still get paid if they want to.

Oct 17, 2018 05:04 PM #370

@mayjay More compensation from whom? The NCAA is not going to compensate anyone and hurt their bottom line. People have been beating this drum forever, and they have taken a lot of heat the past couple of years and have not really budged.

If you are talking about other entities like shoe companies I think it is as simple as they want people to believe the sports are amateur and pure.

I mean just on this board there are people that still believe that so I guess it is working...

Oct 17, 2018 05:07 PM #371

As a follow-up on the walk-on thing. The walk-ons are part of the team, and live in the same area as the rest of the players. Elijah Elliott's dad has a ton of money, and his kid, a walk-on, took visits to KU, Arizona and UK. It certainly never hurts to have walk-ons with wealthy parents. Those kids are going to have lots of money, and, you know, probably spend it with their friends.

Oct 17, 2018 05:07 PM #372

The NCAA is like a woman who marries a really rich guy(the top colleges). She basically with a wink and nod gives him permission to cheat on her but he better not flaunt it, be seen in public, or get caught. She is all about the lifestyle he gives her but still wants the mirage of a perfect marriage to brag about to her friends and family. Now if the jackass breaks one of the previously mentioned rules then "Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned".

Oct 17, 2018 05:08 PM #373

On the trial itself the jury is hearing closing arguments today.

Oct 17, 2018 05:17 PM #374

@Woodrow I am so glad not to have to listen to that stuff. Many people think judges' instructions just confuse the hell out of everybody, at least those who can stay awake!

Oct 17, 2018 05:18 PM #375

@mayjay From everything I have read the judge does not seem to be thrilled to be hearing this case.

Oct 17, 2018 05:24 PM #376

Oct 17, 2018 05:27 PM #377

@BigBad oh brother!

Oct 17, 2018 07:55 PM #378

?s=21

Oct 17, 2018 08:10 PM #379

@Woodrow !0_1539807204745_17F14257-2442-4D58-8920-16E65FA7AE52.jpeg ↗

Oct 17, 2018 08:12 PM #380

@Crimsonorblue22 Is that from Barnes? Lol if so.

Oct 17, 2018 08:13 PM #381

@BShark yes

Oct 17, 2018 08:13 PM #382

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark yes

Yeah, that's a bit silly coming from him considering Durant and the recruiting hauls Tennessee is getting lately.

Oct 17, 2018 08:23 PM #383

@Crimsonorblue22 and??

Oct 17, 2018 08:37 PM #384

@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he's clean lol.

I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn't have recruits put in his pocket lol.

Oct 17, 2018 08:38 PM #385

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he's clean lol.

I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn't have recruits put in his pocket lol.

Hmm, I could buy that. Texas definitely pays though, I have zero doubt about that.

Oct 17, 2018 08:49 PM #386

@BShark I know UT pays. I just think Barnes may be about as clean as you can be. While still getting players who were paid on your team lol

Oct 17, 2018 09:18 PM #387

Just for the sake of discussion, let’s say this trial ends in an “innocent” verdict. Does the FBI move on to try the remaining assistant coaches? Or is their entire case not worth pursuing (assuming it’s still about defrauding)?

Oct 17, 2018 09:21 PM #388

@Gorilla72 I'd think not.

I also think the worst thing that could happen is this going through the appeals process and dragging all of this out longer

Oct 17, 2018 09:59 PM #389

@Gorilla72 That might depend on what they learn from the jurors.

Oct 17, 2018 11:21 PM #390

Maybe I have an incorrect definition of “defrauded”, but it seems like the teams who were “in play” for player but lost out due to, shall we say, better offers - aren’t those the the teams defrauded? Of course, that assumes a player would have definitely attended a different school if it weren’t for “the offer”. (All those 90%+ guys on Crystal Ball that suddenly and oddly picked a different school, for instance, at the last minute.)

Oct 18, 2018 06:04 PM #391

Adam Zagoria
‏Verified account @AdamZagoria

‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler.

‘Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked Adidas to make this payment to Fenny.’

-Michael Schacter, Jim Gatto’s attorney
11:47 AM - 18 Oct 2018 from Manhattan, NY

Oct 18, 2018 06:07 PM #392

That's part of the closing argument. Witnesses said differently under oath obviously.

Oct 18, 2018 07:47 PM #393

Imagine being the new AD.... And finding out the football team is not your biggest problem after all. That has to suck

Oct 18, 2018 07:50 PM #394

Self has more power than Long. A lot more.

Oct 18, 2018 07:54 PM #395

Can't argue that at all. That has to be true.

Oct 18, 2018 07:55 PM #396

cragarhawk said:

Can't argue that at all. That has to be true.

I'm honestly not sure Long has complete power over the football program. We will find out after the season. If Bowen is retained, Long is a sock puppet.

Oct 18, 2018 07:56 PM #397

Gets a bit nippy here. But yeah, this stuff was NOT presented during trial. The lawyer for Gatto is making inferences in his closing argument here. Are they somewhat reasonable? Perhaps but this is far from testimony even. In fact the testimony from Gassnola said the opposite.

Oct 18, 2018 08:01 PM #398

I love Zagoria getting mad when the tone and intent of his first tweet on the matter were so very clear.

Oct 18, 2018 08:13 PM #399

Guys I know some of you -- a lot of you might not agree on this , and that's ok but I've thought about this and Matt Tait made some good points about this. He thoughts were and I've wondered on this at times but I'm kind of worried and whether you agree or not - whether you like it or not - -it is a possibility , I think if your a realist and look at it objectively you have to at least say it's always a possibility.

That is ,with this FBI/Basketball scandal just makes you wonder like Matt said does this increase the chance of Coach Self making decision to leave to experiment with the pro game - and or retirement?

Looking at it this way: - Coach Self has not denied that he might like to dabble into Coaching in the NBA. - there has always been SOME talk about when Coach Pop from the Spurs decides to hang it up - -THAT might be the one NBA team that Coach Self would have some serious interest in. he has some connections there , look at it this way we know recruiting gets really tiring - - -Coach has even talked about things such as that. - - - If you look at it like with the Scandal , the tireless recruiting just all the Bs you put up with the rules and recruitment this scandal just might be enough for him to just say the heck with it. - -Check out Matt's article in the LJW pretty good piece - -at least I think , think he makes a valid argument. He also said Coach Self has mentioned he doesn't really wanna Coach late in his 60's - Matt talks about he has pretty much ALREADY obtained what a lot of College Coach's inspire to have: - - He has won a National title , -He is already in the Hall of fame , he for sure isn't hurting for money - -just read the article guys - -I can't really put it like Matt did - just makes some solid points.

Ya sure Nobody want's it to happen - but like it or not - it IS a possibility - -maybe not immediately but just may have pushed up the time table on things - -check it out.

Oct 18, 2018 08:16 PM #400

1) I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don't think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don't think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!

2) I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn't want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.

Oct 18, 2018 08:16 PM #401

Read somewhere where a former NCAA guy that dealt with rules said actually doesn't think that in the end KU will get a whole lot handed to them. He said with as many big time schools 15-20 that is in this mess, he just doesn't think that the NCAA will do a lot- bottom line is do they REALLY wanna mess with what makes money for them? - If they were to penalize all these schools the NCAA tourney would take a major hit -it's just a dam mess

Oct 18, 2018 08:19 PM #402

Woodrow said:

1) I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don't think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don't think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!

2) I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn't want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.

your words about changing Coach Self's career is just what I was addressing and upping the timeline Matt Tait has a pretty solid piece on this check it out - -I have to agree with you - -only the thing I might differ on is he has mentioned about how he might would like to try and give the NBA a shot. - Like you say I think it just might change the timing of his timeline to what degree - -we just don't know

Oct 18, 2018 08:32 PM #403

Either way all of this is almost certainly a black eye in the court of public opinion. No matter how valid. That's the world we live in. Whats it do as far as tarnishing self's legacy here? Maybe it's still too early to tell.

If the NCAA sweeps it under the rug for monetary reasons. Which I do now firmly believe they have done in the past with other programs. How will we personally look at the legacy. And again the court of public opinion. I'm sure we've all heard or read the ole "Dollar Bill" thing and such from other fan bases. Ya know... Coach K ratface, Calipari Slimeball. It's all out there. Just not sure how I'd respond now to that.

Missing on some big time recruits and sitting some guys over reasonable doubt about violations in the past was at least some ammunition to refute such claims even if you thought "eh, it could be going on everywhere"

Now what will I say... What will we say to the "dollar Bill the slimeball cheater" phrase when we are certainly sure to hear it. Ya ya, but he's our slimeball!!! Idk

What a mess

Oct 18, 2018 08:49 PM #404

Woodrow said:

1) I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don't think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don't think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!

2) I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn't want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.

Agree on the first one. Hope you are wrong about the 2nd but I could see it.

@jayballer73 Not sure what article you are talking about? I went to kusports and checked Tait's articles and didn't see this particular one. Checked his twitter as well. If you could post a link for me, that would be great.

Oct 18, 2018 09:18 PM #405

@jayballer73 Nvm, found it.

Link

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/17/the-5-most-pressing-questions-kansas-fan/ ↗

Oct 18, 2018 09:29 PM #406
  1. Long knows.
  2. I was just thinking this. This entire process makes me think he has to be contemplating retiring more now than ever. And I can't blame him. Either you play the game and get screwed. Or you don't play the game and get screwed. Pretty much a lose-lose situation.
Oct 18, 2018 09:32 PM #407

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

1) I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don't think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don't think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!

2) I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn't want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.

Agree on the first one. Hope you are wrong about the 2nd but I could see it.

@jayballer73 Not sure what article you are talking about? I went to kusports and checked Tait's articles and didn't see this particular one. Checked his twitter as well. If you could post a link for me, that would be great.

sorry my friend I STILL haven't figured out how to share links. I know you all have tried to help me but I guess I'm just thick doesn't sink in , but gald you found it anyways. - So what DID YOU think about it - -I mean he does raise some valid points guy

Oct 18, 2018 09:35 PM #408

Imagine if Bill Self turned KU into Indiana or UCLA instead of winning at the unprecedented rate he has. But he did it "clean" (whatever people think that means). They'd want his f*ing head for tarnishing KU's good name in basketball.

Oct 18, 2018 09:39 PM #409

:joy:

Oct 18, 2018 09:51 PM #410

Imagine if the FF banner comes down. Imagine if the 14th lil 10 title is stripped. Imagine if there's a post season ban. Then we will get to say damn that was a great run of tourney appearances in between those violations and sanctions. It's easy to see the response from those who think rules aren't for them cause they don't like the rules...

The NCAA screwed us. They punished us and let others get away with it. It's a bunch of crap. Right?

For all the convos over the years. A prevalent one has been. Would you trade any big12 titles for just one more NC, 2 more, etc. Would you miss the tourney one year for just 1 more NC etc. And of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion on all of it.

I'm capable of holding things in perspective. So here it is. And I know... Ppl arent commonly good with "IF, THEN" statements here...

If everyone else is cheating, and if that is an undeniable fact. And we are not. And that is an undeniable fact.
Then... I don't care if the program is as successful as it is now.

Oct 18, 2018 09:53 PM #411

@cragarhawk But you do care that it is successful, correct?

Oct 18, 2018 09:57 PM #412

What level of success is ok, as long as we are "clean"?

Really, what is the worst you are willing to be as long as it means staying "clean"?

Oct 18, 2018 10:09 PM #413

I don't have a set standard on it. That really would be no better.

If you're willing to trade dirt for wins, what's a lil more dirt for a few more wins and another NC or 2 while we're at it.

Clean is clean, and I'll live with the record it produces. I'm not gonna stop loving Ku basketball if they lose.

I'd honestly rather hear that my team sucks and be able to say ya you're right they aren't very good this year, but we absolutely aren't cheating, which is the right message for the kids we're sending out into the world. Than to hear, 15 straight bought and paid for big 12 titles huh Mr jayhawk fan.. and have to say... Ya you're right, we bought better recruits and paid more money then you did losers....

And yes I know it's 2018 and I don't fit in for having that mentality. And that's okay. My opinion doesn't require anyone's validation

Oct 18, 2018 10:11 PM #414

@cragarhawk You watch KU Football games?

Oct 18, 2018 10:12 PM #415

@cragarhawk You a Royals fan?

Oct 18, 2018 10:12 PM #416

Under the assumption that most players are getting paid, it still boils down to identifying players that fit your system, talent evaluation and coaching.

Oct 18, 2018 10:13 PM #417

@Kcmatt7 and of course I care that the program is successful. Winning is always more fun than losing. But I also don't know that I believe a program absolutely can't be successful unless they're dirty. There's different levels of success and sometimes the most important levels go beyond the score board. Again, in my own opinion

Oct 18, 2018 10:17 PM #418

@cragarhawk I absolutely think a program could be successful playing it clean. Once in a blue moon. When a genetic freakshow grows up a local fan. Like Harrison Barnes growing up in Ames.

Oct 18, 2018 10:18 PM #419

@cragarhawk no I don't watch alot of Ku football games,. I have at times, and no I don't watch alot of royals games but I have at times.

But that would be unfair as I don't watch alot of football or baseball period. I love the game of basketball.

Ku basketball.... I don't wanna ever miss another game, and I don't ever wanna love another program or sport like I do KU basketball.

Oct 18, 2018 10:18 PM #420

Kcmatt7 said:

@cragarhawk I absolutely think a program could be successful playing it clean. Once in a blue moon. When a genetic freakshow grows up a local fan. Like Harrison Barnes growing up in Ames.

LOL

Oct 18, 2018 10:22 PM #421

I think a lot of people actually would not really care much about or be invested in KU basketball if it was clean. Going back to Larry Brown all the winning is what built up the fan base. If the team was a perennial loser it would basically be like football, which would suck.

Jmo.

Oct 18, 2018 10:26 PM #422

@BShark largely I think you're probably correct, and I also think that sad and unfortunate

Oct 18, 2018 10:54 PM #423

I admit. I still just do not understand the Preston thing if we're a dirty program...

I mean there is the argument that paper trail was more blatant. Until this recent evidence about desouza, and what could have been potentially with Williamson and or Ayton. That kinda blows that argument doesn't it?

Beyond that, what is the difference here? Dollar amount? Does that change the fact that it's a blatant rules violation In the current system?

Why play desouza and keep Billy out? Or also. Why not play Billy too of we're dirty and we know it and the NCAA doesn't really care as long as it gets it's bank?

It makes me think there's just so much more to all of this than we will ever know.

Maybe I just refuse to see it all for what it is. I just want a smoking gun the other direction. I wanna be able to say Dammit, see.... Bill does it right and largely overchieves at it in spite of that

Oct 18, 2018 11:05 PM #424

@cragarhawk Nobody in this business has overachieved to the level of success of a Wooden or a Self or a Knight without some "help."

Oct 18, 2018 11:10 PM #425

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/10/18/17995510/kansas-basketball-jayhawks-bill-self-silvio-de-sousa-kurtis-townsend ↗

UK fans hoping and praying.

Oct 18, 2018 11:14 PM #426

@Kcmatt7 let's say that is the truth

It taints the game doesn't it? The game, the history of it and everything included.

Who do you personally hold in higher regard.. Roger Maris? Or Bonds, Sosa, and Mcquire?

Oct 18, 2018 11:35 PM #427

@Kcmatt7

Knight never cheated. That guy hated Wooden because he knew about Sam Gilbert.

Oct 18, 2018 11:37 PM #428

@BigBad And 48 hours ago apparently half of our fanbase thought Bill Self was a saint.

Oct 18, 2018 11:38 PM #429

Go read about Knight. The guy barely recruited. He had to be begged by assistants to go look at guys. LOL.

Oct 18, 2018 11:38 PM #430

Yeah if there is a guy I'd believe was clean, it's Knight.

Oct 18, 2018 11:40 PM #431

Also I knew Jason Collier personally(he went to school with my younger sister). He said Knight mentioned others will offer you things I wont.

Side note. I tried to convince Jason to go to Kansas. Told him he would be the next Lafrentz. 7' lefty.

Oct 18, 2018 11:41 PM #432

@cragarhawk Absolutely taints the game. The game has been tainted since the 50s. But it is the system we place upon it that doesn't work, not those inside of it. There is so much money in the game and we expect those generating the product to not want to take a bite of the apple. You guys say it is about integrity, but the ones without integrity are the ones who ignore the rules in the first place. The NCAA. You can only expect as much integrity out of the system as you put into the system. The NCAA has no desire to stop the payments, so they don't.

Oct 18, 2018 11:43 PM #433

I'd like to say I absolutely believe Coach Knight was 💯 clean. Would definitely have before...

In light of recent events I'm skeptical about everyone for the last 50 to 60 years I guess...

Oct 18, 2018 11:45 PM #434

@BigBad An arrogant asshole who verbally (and probably physically) abused players and doesn't recruit but was amazingly successful for 35 years. Sounds totally legit.

Oct 18, 2018 11:46 PM #435

He got more out of them cause they were scared of being choked the eff out!!! Lol

Oct 18, 2018 11:47 PM #436

I didnt say the guy was a saint. I said he didnt pay players.

Oct 18, 2018 11:48 PM #437

@BigBad I'm not saying he did. I'm just not saying someone else around the program didn't.

Oct 18, 2018 11:48 PM #438

Also recruiting was waaaay different back then. You could still find kids in the 80s. Shoecos in the 90s changed things and with the internet now almost all prospects are known.

Oct 18, 2018 11:49 PM #439

@BShark kinda adds up. That's when Knight's teams really began to fall off badly

Oct 18, 2018 11:49 PM #440

Knight didnt need to cheat. Most kids in Indiana looked at Basketball as religion and Knight as a deity. He got almost every top Indiana recruit and that was always a stud. When did Knight start losing? When he started missing on all those recruits. Why did he miss? Others paying.

Oct 18, 2018 11:51 PM #441

I also find it funny that when Prop 48 came out there were plenty of kids who were not eligible to play as freshmen. Studs like Larry Johnson and Glenn Big Dog Robinson. Now NOBODY fails the SAT. Id bet my life its all cheated.

Oct 18, 2018 11:52 PM #442

cragarhawk said:

@BShark kinda adds up. That's when Knight's teams really began to fall off badly

And when Duke took off. Plus the fab five and those Tark UNLV teams.

Oct 18, 2018 11:54 PM #443

BigBad said:

I also find it funny that when Prop 48 came out there were plenty of kids who were not eligible to play as freshmen. Studs like Larry Johnson and Glenn Big Dog Robinson. Now NOBODY fails the SAT. Id bet my life its all cheated.

Imagine being Derrick Rose, the only kid to get caught.

KU has had some partial qualifiers under Self. I still say what if Ben was eligible in 2012. That UK team was really good but maybe he makes enough of a difference. Ben was so good.

Oct 19, 2018 12:18 AM #444

That jumper was smooooooooth

Oct 19, 2018 12:48 AM #445

@BShark hell ya. Why not say it makes a difference. We still had a legitimate shot at beating UK that year as is. Couple balls bounce a different way and we win that game. One of my most favorite teams...

Oct 19, 2018 01:28 AM #446

Yeah I just can't help but think he could have made the difference. Conner Teahan played 21 minutes a game for that team after all.

Oct 19, 2018 02:04 AM #447

Here is a question that has been intriguing me for awhile, but which I have never seen addressed:

Will adidas be sanctioned by the Frankfurt stock market (traded there, acc to Wikipedia) or Euro regulators if its agents are found in these cases to have engaged in widespread criminal activity on behalf of the company? We know the Euros are willing to impose huge fines on American companies (MSoft, Google, Facebook) that have done bad things in Europe. Will they punish one of their own for violations in America? Does the failure of the stock price to be very affected by the indictments play a role?

Oct 19, 2018 02:10 AM #448

Knight did not need to cheat, he had plenty of boosters working on the background doing the dirty work to steer kids to Indiana. I would say most coaches maintain a healthy distance to have plausible deniability but they generally know what’s happening even when they are not doing it hands on.

Oct 19, 2018 02:19 AM #449

@JayHawkFanToo If true, I am guessing the major NCAA violation called "failure to exercise institutional control" is essentially the failure to have enough obscuring layers in place to support schools' Sgt Schultz act?

So, most schools have probably had boosters or friends of the program help recruits get laid. But Louisville had a BB staffer do it with hookers brought to their residence some 20 times. No layer at all, or the thinnest possible one, shielding Pitino. Should have used Uber or a cab, given the driver a grand or two, and had them taken to a local 'restaurant' for the innocent dinner planned for them to interact with the local Pole community--er, pole community.

Oct 19, 2018 02:24 AM #450

Incidentally, I had a close friend awhile back who worked in the 70s and 80s for a company that did lots of lighting and audio installations in the famous NYC clubs. He said they had a local brothel and high-end call girls pretty much on retainer and they would help convince financiers and club operators to choose his company.

It ain't just basketball.

Oct 19, 2018 02:44 AM #451

@mayjay It’s in everything unfortunately especially the government.

Oct 19, 2018 02:50 AM #452

@kjayhawks Once, when we were discussing some scandal, a commodity lawyer once told me he had great faith in my integrity and fairness. Then he said that he was sure of it because I wasn't important enough to bribe!

Oct 19, 2018 04:03 AM #453

@mayjay haha not sure if that’s an insult or compliment.

Oct 19, 2018 05:41 AM #454

@mayjay

Politicians are worse. A friend of mine had a flooring company and one time she was called to the home of a very well connected and wealthy businessman/politician in KCMO and asked to redo the carpeting for a house off Paseo Blvd. in KC where a lot of parties took place, basically around the clock. It was a big house with lots of private rooms and all the floors and most of the walls had shag carpeting and the bar was open 24/7. Heard a lot of stories about the parties and the people and “guests” that attended them.

Oct 19, 2018 03:29 PM #455

@BShark Why the assumption that what a defense lawyer says are facts?? His only job is to create doubt.

Oct 19, 2018 05:08 PM #456

Barney said:

@BShark Why the assumption that what a defense lawyer says are facts?? His only job is to create doubt.

Did I insinuate this somewhere? I've actually been having to clarify for people on twitter that closing arguments are not testimony and that he was asking the jury to make inferences.

Oct 19, 2018 09:16 PM #457

@BShark Sorry, the statement was not aimed at you at all, just the assumption that a defense lawyer doesn't exaggerate and spin. The way it is being reported as fact is mind numbing to me.

Oct 19, 2018 09:17 PM #458

@Barney Completely agree.

Oct 19, 2018 09:30 PM #459

The reports do actually make it sound factual and it could very easily not be. That is a very true statement.

However, I think we can all agree, that everything that has come out at least points to a better chance that there is some validity there. It looks bad and smells bad.

And even with that it could all be bunch of crap. But I believe at least half the ppl on this site would say it's naive to think so... I don't personally remember seeing alot of that view before this all came out. But perhaps it didn't need to be said prior. I could be wrong.

Oct 19, 2018 09:31 PM #460

@cragarhawk I was hoping Self wasn't directly involved but the current stuff doesn't look good obviously.

They don't have enough to factually link Self to payments though, or they absolutely would have put that out there at trial.

Oct 19, 2018 09:37 PM #461

@BShark certainly, I mean that would be the biggest fish yet I'd think. If they had an actual smoking gun.

I.E. Self on tap asking Adidas rep to pay recruit this much $$$$.

I mean unless I'm mistaken it was said they had Pitino on a tap like that, and where has that gone? I've yet to hear about that tape being outted to the public. Does such a tape exist. Same thing for Sean Miller.

I think if they existed we would of heard them by now. Or... They've been buried by those whose best interest is to keep them buried.

I think we have to assume the same thing for Self. There either is no such recorded convo. Or.. there is, and somebody doesn't want anyone to know it.

Oct 19, 2018 09:39 PM #462

@cragarhawk I thought I remembered the Pitino and Laranaga (sp?) conversations but I could be mistaken. Either way if something was out there on Self it would have been leaked early like those or at the trial I would think.

If it got buried, well damn that means those guys really fell on the sword but given all the comments and testimony I don't think that's the case.

Oct 19, 2018 09:44 PM #463

@BShark it's very possible I missed those if they actually came out. I bury my head in the sand news wise for the largest part of the year. I pay attention to a few things from about Late night thru late March/early April... And then I'm out. Lol

I was actually wondering to myself today...

Is that part of why the new contract with Adidas hasn't been signed yet? It seems unlikely that we could be holding that as leverage for ppl to say the right things at trial.. when unless I'm mistaken, those ppl are no longer employed by Adidas.. lol

But it does seem somewhat strange and it's reasonable I think to wonder exactly what the deal is with that. We may never really know how big this thing really is.

Oct 19, 2018 09:44 PM #464

cragarhawk said:

@BShark certainly, I mean that would be the biggest fish yet I'd think. If they had an actual smoking gun.

I.E. Self on tap asking Adidas rep to pay recruit this much $$$$.

I mean unless I'm mistaken it was said they had Pitino on a tap like that, and where has that gone? I've yet to hear about that tape being outted to the public. Does such a tape exist. Same thing for Sean Miller.

I think if they existed we would of heard them by now. Or... They've been buried by those whose best interest is to keep them buried.

I think we have to assume the same thing for Self. There either is no such recorded convo. Or.. there is, and somebody doesn't want anyone to know it.

Fabulous points you guys. This is not a good look for KU at all.
Im in North Carolina until next week and I keep walking past Duke tshirts and I always think G.D. Duke, cheating Mofo's. Then Im like, Oh yah, the KU stuff.

But really what we should all do is reserve judgement of any kind about Bill Self and the staff until such a time as we have enough info to make an informed decision. Which we may never get.
This stuff kills me. To think that our program could be participating in things that are against the rules. I always thought that KU and Coach Self were above reproach to take a bit from @HighEliteMajor
I think we all have to be disappointed by hearing these things. But, I also think we need to continue to be life long KU fans.
That will never change for me. Not until I hear about KU bringing in prostitutes for athletes or allegedly trying to cover up a murder or something. Has that ever happened? ;)

Oct 19, 2018 09:45 PM #465

A wait and see approach really is best.

Oct 20, 2018 03:00 AM #466

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220324810.html ↗

Oct 20, 2018 03:15 AM #467

Crimsonorblue22 said:

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220324810.html ↗

Thanks. Lots of stuff here that wasn't brought up much in other articles.

The full timeline article is also good.

Oct 21, 2018 09:52 PM #468

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220372245.html ↗

:/

Oct 22, 2018 02:57 PM #469

Here is a summary ↗ of the prosecutor's closing argument at the FBI trial; looks like the Government just cleared KU. If there was a future trial, the opening argument by KU's lawyers would be to quote the closing argument bu the government prosecutors.

The government contends the three men victimized the universities by causing prospects whose families had received improper benefits to provide inaccurate information on NCAA certification forms.

"If the universities had known about the defendants' secret payments, they never would have issued those scholarships, they never would have put themselves in harm's way and risked NCAA penalties, fines and forfeiture of contests," Solowiejczyk said.

Oct 22, 2018 06:00 PM #470

@JayHawkFanToo You can see how dishonest the prosecution was here. They were just successful in keeping certain information out of evidence, thus they could craft their closing around the "evidence" at the trial (which, of course, they have to do).

Oct 23, 2018 05:31 PM #471

There was no verdict after day 1. Continues today..

Oct 23, 2018 05:46 PM #472

Ryan over on the Phog droppin dimes.

Preston was cleared academically, but never for his amateur status. Hence why the entire process was always an "appeal", despite what PR the KU staff spun early on. There was a lot of confusion because the whole car wreck thing muddied the info, but Preston was ruled ineligible and KU was appealing the whole time in hopes of getting him cleared before the first game. It never happened, he moved on.

Oct 23, 2018 05:50 PM #473

The #HoopsTrial jury has begun day 2 of deliberations. Jurors have agreed to deliberate until 8:30p EDT tonight

Sounds like the jurors are pretty set on getting this finalized before tomorrow...

Oct 23, 2018 06:20 PM #474

@Kcmatt7 Deliberating until 8:30 pm gets them a nice dinner.

I like a smart jury!

Oct 23, 2018 06:24 PM #475

mayjay said:

@Kcmatt7 Deliberating until 8:30 pm gets them a nice dinner.

I like a smart jury!

What's a good dinner at these things? Filon Mignon or Burger King?

Oct 23, 2018 07:25 PM #476

@BeddieKU23 I don't actually know. A lot of judges chew lawyers up, but they just spit 'em out.

Oct 24, 2018 12:43 AM #477

No verdict again today / tonight. The jury deliberated until 830 ( Eastern) then called it a night. They will meet back tomorrow and continue at 930 .

Most seem to think the longer this drags out the better it is for the defendants.

Oct 24, 2018 12:44 AM #478

So what do people think the effect if any on KU is if the verdict is guilty or not guilty... Is guilty better for KU does it matter?

Oct 24, 2018 01:02 AM #479

If not guilty, I’d think it would mean the NCAA lost almost all of its authority in a court of law. And KU will be the least of their problems. If guilty, KU and the NCAA keep up the farce that is college athletics.

Oct 24, 2018 01:13 PM #480

So sitting here thinking - - I know that's scary lol anyways in this FBI trial I'm thinking we would want a Guilty verdict brought back on this right? - - -This would be the better scenario for us then not guilty right? - -Cause guilty would indicate that the Universities would be the victim - - -that's what we need correct?

Oct 24, 2018 01:33 PM #481

@jayballer73 A not guilty verdict means that Adidas and Nike can basically just keep paying players and there is not a damn thing the NCAA can do about it.

Oct 24, 2018 01:33 PM #482

@jayballer73 So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think we will get anything but a slap on the wrist.

Oct 24, 2018 01:50 PM #483

@Woodrow @jayballer73 A guilty verdict might insulate our people from criminal prosecution by the feds. But the government theory of the case, regardless of whether the jury buys it, has no effect whatsoever on the NCAA bringing any case it wants to.

Oct 24, 2018 02:14 PM #484

@mayjay

I would guess there are two ways to look at it. While a guilty verdict might insulate somewhat the alleged aggrieved parties, it would also give the FBI impetus to follow up with other cases it has waiting and we would have a never ending process.

I would think the first case the FBI brought up was the one with the bests chance of success and a not guilty verdict would for all practical purpose send a message to the FBI...

...you overreached in this case, let the IRS handle the money changing angle and you cannot be the enforcer of NCAA rules; let it enforce it own rules and if financial redress is needed it can go to civil not criminal court for reparations.

I am not sure which one is the better outcome. I would lean towards the second insofar as it would likely end the investigation, the NCAA can generate a general, one time amnesty and things can go back to "normal."

Oct 24, 2018 02:40 PM #485

@JayHawkFanToo Oh, I think the potential for a several-years-long pain in the tookus from this whole thing is a real possibility. I was just addressing collateral legal liability--the feds won't want to undermine a conviction, but the NCAA is not bound by anything.

Oct 24, 2018 02:59 PM #486

mayjay said:

@Woodrow @jayballer73 A guilty verdict might insulate our people from criminal prosecution by the feds. But the government theory of the case, regardless of whether the jury buys it, has no effect whatsoever on the NCAA bringing any case it wants to.

Oh ok, see I get confused on which would help us the most. - -Thanks

Oct 24, 2018 04:37 PM #487

We have like 50 threads on this, but I'll put this here...

Matt Tait @mctait

Self on trial's impact on #KUbball team to date...

“This is something we have to deal with. Is it fun to deal with it? No. But we’ll be stronger when we get through it. And some of the best and most rewarding years (I’ve had) have come when we’ve had to go through some crap.”

Oct 24, 2018 05:58 PM #488

Huggins said he didn’t think it had been proven just yet that basketball programs were involved in the recruiting scandal but that, if it did happen, it was just a small number of schools involved.

“We’re talking, what, four or five schools at most?” he said, noting there are 361 teams in Division I basketball. “I think the state of our game is fine. If things happened, we all know they shouldn't have happened, but that doesn’t affect that state of our game and the way people go about doing their business.”

What a blowhard Huggins is.

Oct 24, 2018 06:16 PM #489

I like Huggins. His radio interviews are gold.

Oct 24, 2018 06:20 PM #490

Verdict reached. Will be read in 22 minutes.

Oct 24, 2018 06:22 PM #491

Self and Huggy are like best buds on the road. I just imagine those two eating at a Waffle House at two in the morning after going to the bars. Just shooting the shit.

But also I agree about his steamy take. If anyone thinks Bill Walker went to KSU for free, I have magic beans I can sell you.

Oct 24, 2018 06:23 PM #492

Kcmatt7 said:

Self and Huggy are like best buds on the road. I just imagine those two eating at a Waffle House at two in the morning after going to the bars. Just shooting the shit.

But also I agree about his steamy take. If anyone thinks Bill Walker went to KSU for free, I also have magic beans I can sell you.

UK/Cal really wanted Oscar Tshiebwe but he just went to WVU because he really likes Huggins okay??!!

Oct 24, 2018 06:26 PM #493

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Self and Huggy are like best buds on the road. I just imagine those two eating at a Waffle House at two in the morning after going to the bars. Just shooting the shit.

But also I agree about his steamy take. If anyone thinks Bill Walker went to KSU for free, I also have magic beans I can sell you.

UK/Cal really wanted Oscar Tshiebwe but he just went to WVU because he really likes Huggins okay??!!

Nike probably was okay that he at least stayed in the brotherhood. But Oscar does come from the same school as Thugnate.

Oct 24, 2018 06:27 PM #494

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Self and Huggy are like best buds on the road. I just imagine those two eating at a Waffle House at two in the morning after going to the bars. Just shooting the shit.

But also I agree about his steamy take. If anyone thinks Bill Walker went to KSU for free, I also have magic beans I can sell you.

UK/Cal really wanted Oscar Tshiebwe but he just went to WVU because he really likes Huggins okay??!!

Nike probably was okay that he at least stayed in the brotherhood. But Oscar does come from the same school as Thugnate.

WVU had a lot of connections to him. I have no doubt that someone took money, possible that Oscar didn't see a dime of it though.

Oct 24, 2018 06:28 PM #495

I actually think Tshiebwe fits with Huggy really well and I'm almost pissed that's where he went.

Oct 24, 2018 06:28 PM #496

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Self and Huggy are like best buds on the road. I just imagine those two eating at a Waffle House at two in the morning after going to the bars. Just shooting the shit.

But also I agree about his steamy take. If anyone thinks Bill Walker went to KSU for free, I also have magic beans I can sell you.

UK/Cal really wanted Oscar Tshiebwe but he just went to WVU because he really likes Huggins okay??!!

Nike probably was okay that he at least stayed in the brotherhood. But Oscar does come from the same school as Thugnate.

WVU had a lot of connections to him. I have no doubt that someone took money, possible that Oscar didn't see a dime of it though.

Nike layered that cake pretty good though I'm sure for a Top 25 type kid.

Oct 24, 2018 06:29 PM #497

Kcmatt7 said:

I actually think Tshiebwe fits with Huggy really well and I'm almost pissed that's where he went.

Yeah you think well Konate will be gone after the season, great, phew, in comes his CLONE

Oct 24, 2018 06:32 PM #498

I'd love to know what Nike is doing differently.

Oct 24, 2018 06:34 PM #499

Kcmatt7 said:

I'd love to know what Nike is doing differently.

Well for one they don't employ the Gassnola's of the world from what I'm aware of a few situations. I would imagine not a ton of difference, just a well oiled machine with a lot of power and influence

Oct 24, 2018 06:36 PM #500

BeddieKU23 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

I'd love to know what Nike is doing differently.

Well for one they don't employ the Gassnola's of the world from what I'm aware of a few situations. I would imagine not a ton of difference, just a well oiled machine with a lot of power and influence

Yeah, plus they just happened to catch a guy on something else that led to Adidas guys mostly. More trials are coming though, we will see what shakes out with Nike.

Oct 24, 2018 06:51 PM #501

lolololololololololol.opololol

Oct 24, 2018 06:51 PM #502

Guilty: All Counts

Oct 24, 2018 06:54 PM #503

Well, it looks like the NCAA will live to fight another day. KU and Self pretty much are now gifted plausible deniability. Next up, Nike coaches. When's that trial?

Oct 24, 2018 06:57 PM #504

Kcmatt7 said:

Well, it looks like the NCAA will live to fight another day. KU and Self pretty much are now gifted plausible deniability. Next up, Nike coaches. When's that trial?

April I think.

Oct 24, 2018 06:57 PM #505

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Well, it looks like the NCAA will live to fight another day. KU and Self pretty much are now gifted plausible deniability. Next up, Nike coaches. When's that trial?

April I think.

Convenient huh

Oct 24, 2018 06:57 PM #506

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Well, it looks like the NCAA will live to fight another day. KU and Self pretty much are now gifted plausible deniability. Next up, Nike coaches. When's that trial?

April I think.

Convenient huh

Yeah, not weird at all.

Oct 24, 2018 07:03 PM #507

ALL 3 MAN SENTENCING WILL HAPPEN MARCH 5 THEY WILL REMAIN OUT ON BOND UNTIL THEN

Oct 24, 2018 07:07 PM #508

Hehehe 😏

Oct 24, 2018 07:08 PM #509

@JAYHAWKFAN214 This prosecution obviously has protected America from horrible danger. Good thing these guys will not be out on the streets any. . . . oh, wait....

Oct 24, 2018 07:11 PM #510

Truly vial crimes committed.

Oct 24, 2018 07:13 PM #511

Kcmatt7 said:

I'd love to know what Nike is doing differently.

Using smarter runners that are not trying to boost their own egos and are not getting caught?

Oct 24, 2018 07:15 PM #512

JayHawkFanToo said:

Kcmatt7 said:

I'd love to know what Nike is doing differently.

Using smarter runners that are not trying to boost their own egos and are not getting caught?

It just blows my mind how you even put yourself in a position to get caught. Like Adidas stole a guy from Nike just to put this pay for play scheme into action.

Oct 24, 2018 07:16 PM #513

mayjay said:

@JAYHAWKFAN214 This prosecution obviously has protected America from horrible danger. Good thing these guys will not be out on the streets any. . . . oh, wait....

they will not be

Oct 24, 2018 07:23 PM #514

Sentencing is Next march so nothing is likely to happen until after the season is over.

Oct 24, 2018 07:23 PM #515

You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That's over right?

Oct 24, 2018 07:33 PM #516

Kcmatt7 said:

You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That's over right?

we still do not know what the ncaa will do tho

Oct 24, 2018 07:40 PM #517

Kcmatt7 said:

I'd love to know what Nike is doing differently.

Using offshore accounts?

Oct 24, 2018 07:48 PM #518

Kcmatt7 said:

You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That's over right?

As far as I know deals are gone as far as guilt or innocence; however, a deal could still be made about sentencing recommendation in exchange for cooperation and/or additional information that will help with future cases.

As I understand...and I could be wrong...this type of cases receive relatively minor sentences ↗, maybe months in a so called "country club" type detention facility where white collar criminals go. Given the relatively small $ involved I would think sentences will be months rather than years.

Hopefully the lawyers can chime in with pertinent information

Oct 24, 2018 07:58 PM #519

Kcmatt7 said:

You lawyer folk. Is it too late for a deal to be made at this point? That's over right?

Only deal they can make now is to roll on others for a reduced sentence if the government doesn’t have all they want on a certain other shoe company.

Oct 24, 2018 08:08 PM #520

@BShark OK, so bud - -now it seems like these guy's were found guilty right? - - just came on board and reading some comments. - -Sooo now my question is , we know that Coach Self is sitting Silvio -we know Coach said that until this was cleared up Coach will be holding Silvio out, Coach stated that they had been in contact/talking to the NCAA - -So my question now becomes:

They NOT the NCAA but these guys will be givin their sentence on like March 5th is what I thought I saw - - - So we sit Silvio till the NCAA is done with whatever now right? - -- So if it takes for them the entire season is done - - I mean Silvio sits until a decision is made I got that -- BUT - - - Could we red shirt Silvio this year while we wait OR does Silvio just transfer - -which that wouldn't make ANY sense - -still wouldn't be able to play - -OR - - does Silvio leave and try to start on working out individually and try to enter next years NBA draft - - - where do we go what does Silvio do from here? what do you all think? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 24, 2018 08:14 PM #521

jayballer73 said:

@BShark OK, so bud - -now it seems like these guy's were found guilty right? - - just came on board and reading some comments. - -Sooo now my question is , we know that Coach Self is sitting Silvio -we know Coach said that until this was cleared up Coach will be holding Silvio out, Coach stated that they had been in contact/talking to the NCAA - -So my question now becomes:

They NOT the NCAA but these guys will be givin their sentence on like March 5th is what I thought I saw - - - So we sit Silvio till the NCAA is done with whatever now right? - -- So if it takes for them the entire season is done - - I mean Silvio sits until a decision is made I got that -- BUT - - - Could we red shirt Silvio this year while we wait OR does Silvio just transfer - -which that wouldn't make ANY sense - -still wouldn't be able to play - -OR - - does Silvio leave and try to start on working out individually and try to enter next years NBA draft - - - where do we go what does Silvio do from here? what do you all think? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

yes they was found guitlty

Oct 24, 2018 08:22 PM #522

@jayballer73 This result is amazing for KU as far as I can tell.

@mayjay maybe you can chime in as I am no legal expert. BUT, as far as I understand this, since they were found guilty of defrauding KU, as far as the law is concerned KU as an institution couldn't have been part of the fraud. And obviously Self and Townsy are university employees so as far as this result is concerned, they were not a part of it. I'm not sure how anything happens to Self/Townsy/KU at this point but we will see I suppose.

Oct 24, 2018 08:23 PM #523

@FarmerJayhawk @Kcmatt7 They can also deal for vacating one or more of the charges while not appealing the others, as well as testifying in future trials. The amount of a fine could be in play, too.

Oct 24, 2018 08:28 PM #524

@BShark I have said before, I think it has nothing to do with anything the NCAA wants to do. I was never very afraid of anyone at KU getting hit with criminal charges.

@jayballer73 There is no reason for the NCAA to wait until sentencing UNLESS the prosecutor agrees to a lighter sentence in exchange for the defendants to agree to cooperate completely with the NCAA.

Oct 24, 2018 08:29 PM #525

@mayjay Thank you for your input. The way I see it the defense was trying to argue the coaches were extensions of the university, and they got shut down.

Also I am not sure where they found this judge, but he seemed to be very contentious towards the defense.

Oct 24, 2018 08:34 PM #526

@BShark His not allowing the additional transcripts into evidence might be the vulnerable part of these convictions.

I don't really miss this stuff, contrary to any impressions I may have given by jumping all over any legal issue. I prefer reading legal mysteries to being in one!

Oct 24, 2018 08:37 PM #527

Matt Scott
‏Verified account @KUTheShiver

Matt Scott Retweeted Ian JoDeCi

It's good. Using things like normal recruiting talk text messages as 'proof' was a dumb defense from the start.

Oct 24, 2018 09:01 PM #528

@mayjay

Realistically and given the small amounts of $ involved (in the big scheme of things), what are the chances that the sentences are longer than a few months? Would it be worth it to the defendants to deal for shorter sentences which might amount to a few months when the option of keeping their mouths shut might result in some corporate loyalty reward down the road that might even include getting their jobs back?

Would the judge not allowing defense evidence result in grounds for a reversal on appeal? If yes, it could take years to sort it out.

Oct 24, 2018 09:03 PM #529

I would think that Adidas would pay them off to not say a word from here on out.

Oct 24, 2018 09:18 PM #530

bill self will have a press conference @7pm tonight
to talk about what happen today

Oct 24, 2018 09:44 PM #531

I KNEW it - - I KNEW it. - -the most predictable thing to come. - - doing my trolling -- UK boards just going Ape s- - - about the gully verdict - - & North Carolina site boo hooing - - talking about how self should be fired - and how now is the time for the NCAA to lower the boom on Self and KU - -already know why they want to see KU get hammered - they still believe they have a shot for JRE so want to see KU get it

This is coming from home of the fake classes oh look at them thumping the chests lo - -almost comical

Oct 24, 2018 09:49 PM #532

The hand wringing from UNC, UK and Duke fans rings particularly hollow.

Oct 24, 2018 10:44 PM #533

ADAM ZAGORIA@ADAMZAGORIA 9M
LEGAL SOURCE FAMILIAR WITH THE ADIDAS TRIAL TELLS ME DEFENDANTS LIKELY TO FACE SENTENCE OF 18 MONTHS - 2YEARS, BUT 2-4YEARS' IS A VERY REAL EXPECTATION'

Oct 24, 2018 10:49 PM #534

That's really not much time at all tbh.

Oct 24, 2018 10:53 PM #535

@BShark

Nope, white collar criminals don't really get long sentences unless it involves hundreds of millions of $ and lots of victims.

18-24 months out after 8-12 months for good behavior...why even bother trying to get a better deal? It is as good as it gets.

Oct 24, 2018 10:57 PM #536

Coach Self press conference at 7 in Allen field house. - Some local sports talk guys saying kind of curious of what he might say - -almost insinuating they think might have something to say about Silvio. - -I don't know , they were wondering if they might carry this on espn plus- -I doubt that - but wish I could hear what he has to say on air. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 24, 2018 10:59 PM #537

jayballer73 said:

Coach Self press conference at 7 in Allen field house. - Some local sports talk guys saying kind of curious of what he might say - -almost insinuating they think might have something to say about Silvio. - -I don't know , they were wondering if they might carry this on espn plus- -I doubt that - but wish I could hear what he has to say on air. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Gonna take off his shirt and spin it around while laughing at the haters.

TEFLON DON. Hustlers gonna hustle. Chumps like Pitino get caught.

Oct 26, 2018 01:18 PM #538

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25085072/wiretap-audio-evidence-college-hoops-pay-play-released ↗

Don't see shit on Bill or KT here.

Oct 26, 2018 01:31 PM #539

@BShark This looks like the items used by the prosecutors and admitted into evidence in the trial. I think the Self and KT things were in defense exhibits and things the defense tried but failed to get in.

Oct 26, 2018 01:35 PM #540

No tape on Self. One 5 minute conversation before the wiretap and one 5 minute conversation not recorded when a technical error occurred. As far as I know.

Oct 26, 2018 03:02 PM #541

@JayHawkFanToo Uh, the best it gets is no prison with an agreement on sentencing.

@BShark I think being in prison or a minimum security federal site is a bigger issue for an individual than you suggest. I wouldn't volunteer. Doubt you would. If fact, I bet we'd both talk a bit to avoid it. You lose a portion of your life going to prison. Folks talk to stay out of that situation.

No one should make the assumption that what we see there at the link, that was the evidence at the trial, is all the evidence that the prosecutor has. The prosecutor could easily have additional evidence he strategically chose not to use. The prosecutor only has to turn over exculpatory evidence.

I'm not suggesting this to be true, just that I would not be surprised if the alleged technical errors in the recording with Self were magically resolved at some point. I don't trust this at all. Not expecting it. But it wouldn't shock me.

If this is all they have, combined with the texts we know about, then the only thing Self has to fear are the squealers. And even then, there would need to be some sort of paper (electronic) trail I would think for a charge to be filed. The squealers could have their own "evidence." Ugh. However, I would think that squealers might have already tried to use that evidence given their case theory. Lots of unknowns.

Oct 26, 2018 03:11 PM #542

@HighEliteMajor I don't mean to glorify prison by any means. There is a lot wrong with the US prison system, and justice system in fact with sentencing but I don't really want to get into that here. I'm just saying, they can likely get off earlier as well and in the scope of prison times, it's not that bad.

Oct 26, 2018 03:54 PM #543

@HighEliteMajor

My point was that he can do very little time and have Adidas indebted to him or do no time and became a pariah in the business.

Oct 29, 2018 12:44 AM #544

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/25105562/call-records-link-arizona-sean-miller-creighton-greg-mcdermott-brian-bowen-ii-recruitment ↗

Oct 29, 2018 10:29 AM #545

@Woodrow

Now that the KU/ESPN smear campaign has ran its course now its back to Miller and UA.

Oct 29, 2018 02:23 PM #546

The FBI involved with improper benefits. Makes zero sense. Did they just not have anything else to do, and figure "what the heck, we'll chase around NCAA rules violators"? Setting aside the question on whether their presence was legal, the idea of our FBI chasing around college coaches, tapping their phone lines, using thousands of government dollars to find out players are getting paid under the table.

Not Nike players, of course.

The biggest non-story in the history of the sport is KT discussing Zion's price. You will never hear a peep from the NCAA, ESPN, or anyone about Zion's price. Dook won't be asked ... neither will the Rat. The way the media is attacking this story is they focusing on Silvio, and aren't even mentioning Zion's price. That way, they still disparage KU without bringing up the most potential damaging revelation. The last thing the NCAA wants is to entangle both KU and Dook, so I imagine the worst case is Silvio won't play. To me, this is our get out of jail free card. This is our chance to make better recruiting decisions that don't leave us with players so checkered, we don't even know if they'll clear. Nobody wanted Preston, but we took him. Diallo had his issues. Cliff ? We're bringing misery onto ourselves needlessly, imo.

Roy and I have had our differences over the years. The fact he has won 3 national championships doesn't help. Roy is the best recruiter in the history of college basketball, not because he gets the "very best" recruits....he doesn't. In fact, there are years where he gets noone in the Top 10. Yet, he's been to the Final Four twice in the past 4 years, and he's racking up national titles. In the last 3 years, they've had 1 OAD. So, he's gets good guys, develops them, then they go to the NBA. He's looking for longevity, so he recruits guys that want to play college basketball. And we chase these questionable OADs, when we could've tied that schollie to a less talented player who is going to be around for years to help us. Who was more valuable to our program - Wigs or Devonte? Travis Releford or Josh Selby? Frank or JJ? So, we spend our time chasing talent with an expiration date, while UNC is cleaning up on recruits a little lower on the top prospect list, but are sticking around their program for multi years. Academic scandal aside, I prefer their recruiting method over ours. I'm hoping we will get back to signing the Marcus Garretts, the Big Daves, guys like that exclusively. As much as Dedric is going to help us this year, he won't be here next year. Same with Grimes. That's why I get more excited about the Brauns, the Ochais, the McBrydes than the big names. The national championship game was filled with experienced KU players in 2008, again in 2012, and the Final Four last year. Because Nova was able to keep their players from their first national championship in 2016, they were able to cut down the nets again last year ( although they lost a ton this year. ) It's really the true recipe for sustained elite success.

Oct 29, 2018 02:38 PM #547

@BeddieKU23 There is a lot more smoke around Miller than Self. Be interesting to see how the national media handles that. Also for people that don't believe this happens at the overwhelming majority of major programs just look at this article and McDermot and Creighton. I mean he seems like a straight laced guy but I would think it is safe to say he was "playing the game"

Oct 29, 2018 02:50 PM #548

@KUSTEVE when 4-5 stars stay 2-3 yrs you can best believe an “agreement” was reached. Roy is smart enough to not be directly involved but those kids at UNC aren't staying for the "love of the game".

Oct 29, 2018 03:07 PM #549

@BShark That's not the same topic. You assume they are all on the take, and you could be right. Recruiting OADs that have clouds over their heads, and whispers of wrong doing surrounding them versus taking someone who is still talented but needs a few years is a no brainer, imo. Weren't there murmers around Cliff, Diallo, Silvio and Preston before they were signed? Weren't all 4 of these guys not our first choice, and we lost out on someone good, so we settled for them? I think we're borrowing trouble...why not go for the guy that will be around to help the program for years, which become our most valuable players to the team? Both UNC and Nova had rosters chocked full of experience, and they have dominated the Final Four for the past 4 years. Neither one of them had a top 5, or maybe even a top 10 recruit during that time. All that talent that Dook and Tucky are stacking up and turning over every year isn't beating the teams with the lower ranked recruits that have experience.

Oct 29, 2018 03:17 PM #550

I think OU should be the poster child for "scarred by the OAD". Perfect example : Lon recruits 5 guys, and they all stick around for years, and a guy named Buddy Hield becomes a star. OU gets a 1 seed in the tournament with these 5 guys that had played together for years, and they make their first Final Four since Danny and the Miracles. They get destroyed by another experience laden teams, Nova...but at least they made it. Then the team falls off next year, and they rush to stick a band-aid on it by bringing in Trae Young...OAD extraordinare and certified team destroyer. The smoke clears...Trae is gone for the $$$, and 2 starters end up transferring. And now, they're picked last in conference. They're dog meat.

Oct 29, 2018 03:28 PM #551

@KUSTEVE

I've been hitting at this for a while too, recruit better. Not in terms of better players but recruit those who don't have pre-existing baggage. The 2018 class was a step in the RIGHT direction. Big Dave, Devon, Ochai, Q all pass the character test as far as we know coming in.

I think the staff is 2-2 so far in 2019. I think the remaining targets are also good character kids.

Of course some situations cannot be avoidable but if Self takes a stand againt the Selby's, Cliff's, Diallo's, Preston's of the world just maybe we avoid all these issues going forward. That's all we can hope for. Don't get to the point of desperation where you take Billy Preston. We could have had Tyler Davis who went to Texas A&M. Instead we got stuck in a snowball of bad choices that led to media headlines now

Oct 29, 2018 03:45 PM #552

Question. So when academics are the problem do you guys lump that into the same category as bad character kids? Example, diallo. Do you think billy knew his mom did that according to her texts to him about what to say? Did cliff tell his mom to screw up his playing time knowing he was thinking about staying in college? Ok, let me have it!

Oct 29, 2018 03:46 PM #553

I think Diallo is a great kid, who is terribly poor and needed to move on.

Oct 29, 2018 03:47 PM #554

@Crimsonorblue22 I think he is just referring to the fact that we knew he was going to have eligibility issues from day 1.

Oct 29, 2018 03:48 PM #555

@Kcmatt7 but he was worth fighting for?

Oct 29, 2018 03:51 PM #556

I know he went to Selfs HOF induction and regularly comes back. I think if he went to any other college he might not be playing in the nba.

Oct 29, 2018 03:54 PM #557

@Crimsonorblue22 I like Diallo. I think we should have avoided even being involved with his guardian though.

Oct 29, 2018 03:57 PM #558

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Question. So when academics are the problem do you guys lump that into the same category as bad character kids? Example, diallo. Do you think billy knew his mom did that according to her texts to him about what to say? Did cliff tell his mom to screw up his playing time knowing he was thinking about staying in college? Ok, let me have it!

When Diallo was officially suspended it was due to improper benefits given to him from his guardian right? That was a joke to begin with imo. We all thought it was his transcripts from Mali

KU and the coaching staff definitely fought for him. Before he signed with KU there was plenty of rumblings his eligibility was going to be something that could be an issue. KU took the risk anyway. I'm glad despite what happened to him he's made the NBA.

Has KU really ever been blindsided by an eligibility issue lately? I don't think that is 100% acccurate, unless I'm missing someone

Oct 29, 2018 04:13 PM #559

@BeddieKU23 knowing what Nicole player told her son to say to coach, doesn't that clear KU? No?

Oct 29, 2018 04:23 PM #560

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 knowing what Nicole player told her son to say to coach, doesn't that clear KU? No?

Officially It should. I think KU cleared itself by finding the issue and never playing him in a non-exhibition game. That's what we were told.

The unofficial word is that Preston was never eligible, that KU was appealing the whole time and his amateurism was being looked at by the NCAA. There was never a ruling and Billy left before it all played out. The car crash etc was just smoke to cover up what was really happening.

If that's really the case I don't think KU has much to worry about seems how he was already on the NCAA's radar

Oct 29, 2018 04:35 PM #561

BeddieKU23 said:

@KUSTEVE

I've been hitting at this for a while too, recruit better. Not in terms of better players but recruit those who don't have pre-existing baggage. The 2018 class was a step in the RIGHT direction. Big Dave, Devon, Ochai, Q all pass the character test as far as we know coming in.

I think the staff is 2-2 so far in 2019. I think the remaining targets are also good character kids.

Of course some situations cannot be avoidable but if Self takes a stand againt the Selby's, Cliff's, Diallo's, Preston's of the world just maybe we avoid all these issues going forward. That's all we can hope for. Don't get to the point of desperation where you take Billy Preston. We could have had Tyler Davis who went to Texas A&M. Instead we got stuck in a snowball of bad choices that led to media headlines now

Trying to upvote this more than once.

Oct 29, 2018 08:09 PM #562

BeddieKU23 said:

Has KU really ever been blindsided by an eligibility issue lately? I don't think that is 100% acccurate, unless I'm missing someone

KU or Self? I think Self knew the risks when he recruited Diallo, Preston, Cliff, Selby and Arthur.

Oct 29, 2018 08:56 PM #563

@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston .. that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn't add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest "cover?"

I don't think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn't tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn't clear the coaches.

Oct 29, 2018 08:59 PM #564

@HighEliteMajor What if they assumed he was paid, but didn't know any of the details about how much or what method or by whom?

Is Self then still at fault?

Oct 29, 2018 09:06 PM #565

@HighEliteMajor Somewhere in this mess, I thought I read that KU held him out after the NCAA notified us that there might be a problem. The issue, I think, had arisen out of the info being examined by the FBI.

If so, hiding the real reason could have been to protect Preston's rep if the info turned out to be bogus. Anything coming out of the FBI to schools back then was likely to have been in the form of rumor, and would have needed to be tracked down and substantiated before any official action could be announced based on it.

Oct 29, 2018 09:26 PM #566

@Kcmatt7 if Self knew he was paid, yes. If not, then no. If it was wink, wink, yea, we don't know the detail, but yea, we know he got something to come to KU from a third party. Yes, Self is at fault. 100%.

@mayjay Ok, I just didn't recall hearing of the eligibility issue being known prior to the infamous fender bender. I thought it was as a result of KU's investigation after Der Fender Bender (a former ride at World's Fun, back in the day).

Oct 29, 2018 09:35 PM #567

@HighEliteMajor So, fire Self?

Oct 29, 2018 09:39 PM #568

What about Nichole telling billy what to say? I don't think billy knew, at least not at the beginning. I know!

Oct 29, 2018 09:46 PM #569

@Kcmatt7 Why would you bring up firing Bill Self? Do you hate Bill Self? What do you have against him?

Sorry .. just funny to me.

Oct 29, 2018 09:50 PM #570

@Crimsonorblue22 We do sometimes forget that just because they are very good at basketball doesn't change the fact that they are just kids (or very young, many times immature, adults). Most kids do what their parents ask.

Oct 29, 2018 09:58 PM #571

@HighEliteMajor That's what I thought lol.

Oct 30, 2018 01:30 AM #572

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston .. that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn't add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest "cover?"

I don't think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn't tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn't clear the coaches.

He was cleared in one aspect but not another. I don't remember the details. Maybe @FarmerJayhawk could chime in here please?

Oct 30, 2018 03:57 AM #573

@HighEliteMajor

The texts between Preston and his mom appear to indicate the coaching staff did not know about the payments and a deliberate attempt by mom and son to keep the information from them. Preston did not play in any offcial games so I would think KU is pretty safe in this particular case.

Oct 30, 2018 10:56 AM #574

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston .. that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn't add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest "cover?"

I don't think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn't tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn't clear the coaches.

I will clarify what I wrote.

This is what Ryan on the Phog said about Billy. Ryan has connections to the program.

Preston was cleared academically but his amateurism wasn't.

He played in all the exhibitions because the expectation was he would be cleared by the opener to play.

The Car crash happened but it was used as a front while they waited for the NCAA to rule on his amateurism. At some point the NCAA let them know the situation and KU appealed on Billy's behalf.

Whether all of it, some of, or none of it is true it would make some sense on why there was no movement.

Oct 30, 2018 12:45 PM #575

@JayHawkFanToo Right, but in this deal where they try to provide the coach deniability, as everyone seems to think, it would make great sense for the Adidas rep (or any shoe company rep) to make it appear to the player/parent/guardian that the coach doesn't know. That limits the number of squealers that could implicate the coach. That fits right with how all this was supposedly handled. So the discussions from Gassnola's end don't really matter much. He was the main line in the "plausible deniability" defense. But, of course, I don't know. It would just fit under what has transpired, particularly the interactions on DeSousa.

Oct 30, 2018 05:12 PM #576

@HighEliteMajor

My point was that Billy and his mom were under the impression that KU personnel was not aware of the payments and tried to keep the information from them. It also appears that KU personnel were not aware of the payments to Billy's mom and apparently kept asking Billy questions about it and he did not volunteered any information and the he finally bolted.

Oct 30, 2018 05:30 PM #577

@JayHawkFanToo Yes, I understood your point, which you have reiterated. My point was a separate point, which is a reason why none of that may matter regarding KU's culpability. Emphasis on may, as I don't know.

Oct 31, 2018 09:54 AM #578

Poor Silvio. Find that Spanish team and go play young man. You don't need to be the fall guy in this.

"No, unfortunately, and there's not going to be any news, I wouldn't think, in the immediate future,"

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/KU-basketballs-Bill-Self-not-expecting-news-on-Silvio-De-Sousa-in-the-immediate-future-124028725/ ↗

Oct 31, 2018 12:35 PM #579

News will come "soon". Billy Preston soon. :/

Oct 31, 2018 12:38 PM #580

BShark said:

News will come "soon". Billy Preston soon. :/

Sunday? Monday? goshdangitiwanttoknownow

Oct 31, 2018 12:44 PM #581

BShark said:

News will come "soon". Billy Preston soon. :/

I had to laugh when I realized that you were NOT saying there would be a ruling on Billy soon.

Oct 31, 2018 12:45 PM #582

Boy I'd like to think they could get a ruling out in the next month. But they've slow played the hell out of us before so who knows.

Oct 31, 2018 01:06 PM #583

I'll take Silvio being done over losing even more from NCAA in some future ruling. Hopefully this is the end. However it's going to hurt recruiting for a season or two. Self and company need to go the prep school route and grab some more Masons and Devonte types.

Oct 31, 2018 01:08 PM #584

If we don't find another big, I think we probably need to look at taking a transfer or two.

Oct 31, 2018 03:27 PM #585

Meanwhile in Arizona: https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/board-of-regents-will-meet-thursday-to-discuss-arizona-wildcats/article_9d22c948-dc8f-11e8-9ba8-0faacc4e98c7.html ↗

Oct 31, 2018 04:05 PM #586

@BShark

Nothing to see here but PR duty

Oct 31, 2018 04:06 PM #587

I'd bet they conclude that he is too expensive to fire.

Oct 31, 2018 04:10 PM #588

No way they fire him with that recruiting class coming in. I agree with @BeddieKU23 this is nothing but a PR move.

Oct 31, 2018 04:32 PM #589

Oh they won't fire him, I just think their board of regents meeting is hilarious.

Oct 31, 2018 04:33 PM #590

BShark said:

Oh they won't fire him, I just think their board of regents meeting is hilarious.

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a meeting at all, just an announcement that a meeting will take place with fluff and peanut butter

Oct 31, 2018 05:07 PM #591

BigBad said:

I'll take Silvio being done over losing even more from NCAA in some future ruling. Hopefully this is the end. However it's going to hurt recruiting for a season or two. Self and company need to go the prep school route and grab some more Masons and Devonte types.

I have a very strong feeling your gonna get your wish. - I just think really strong that Silvio has touched the KU floor for the last time as a player.

However on the recruiting front - -this class of 2019 yes it's looking like it, However the following year I'm not that sure. All you have to do is look at Arizona/Louisville . - -They got hammered when this 1st came out from a recruiting standpoint. - Louisville - lost all their recruits and Lost Pitino . Old stumpy took a major hit too , sure they kept Ayton- -that while ordeal O think is still up in the air--yet to come - -but BOTH have came back this year the 2nd year and both have had really GOOD recruiting yrs for 19.- -No reason to believe KU won't do the same thing. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 31, 2018 05:07 PM #592

Kcmatt7 said:

If we don't find another big, I think we probably need to look at taking a transfer or two.

maybe a stud Juco

Oct 31, 2018 05:09 PM #593

jayballer73 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

If we don't find another big, I think we probably need to look at taking a transfer or two.

maybe a stud Juco

CALM DOWN

Oct 31, 2018 05:12 PM #594

BShark said:

jayballer73 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

If we don't find another big, I think we probably need to look at taking a transfer or two.

maybe a stud Juco

CALM DOWN

being honest might hurt SOMES dainty feelings/toes roflmao

Oct 31, 2018 05:16 PM #595

Don't underestimate the Ivory Tower folks.

Oct 31, 2018 05:26 PM #596

@jayballer73 I'll buy you a beer if KU signs a JUCO basketball player, not happening.

Oct 31, 2018 05:33 PM #597

@BeddieKU23 @BShark I am shocked at both of you in thinking the Regents meeting is useless. They are getting together to collect their shares of the rest of the money that has not been accounted for.

Oct 31, 2018 05:36 PM #598

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 @BShark I am shocked at both of you in thinking the Regents meeting is useless. They are getting together to collect their shares of the rest of the money that has not been accounted for.

I knew I forgot the most important part of this. I'll do better next time

Oct 31, 2018 05:57 PM #599

BShark said:

@jayballer73 I'll buy you a beer if KU signs a JUCO basketball player, not happening.

Not saying it WOULD HAPPEN I said COULD it happen. - -really not a whole hell lot of difference between a post grad transfer-OR A REALLY good Juco stud. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 31, 2018 06:00 PM #600

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

@jayballer73 I'll buy you a beer if KU signs a JUCO basketball player, not happening.

Not saying it WOULD HAPPEN I said COULD it happen. - -really not a whole hell lot of difference between a post grad transfer-OR A REALLY good Juco stud. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think there is actually. I can't think of a JUCO player that has had a huge impact for a good team recently. Self hasn't went that route in a long time.

Oct 31, 2018 06:04 PM #601

BShark said:

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

@jayballer73 I'll buy you a beer if KU signs a JUCO basketball player, not happening.

Not saying it WOULD HAPPEN I said COULD it happen. - -really not a whole hell lot of difference between a post grad transfer-OR A REALLY good Juco stud. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think there is actually. I can't think of a JUCO player that has had a huge impact for a good team recently. Self hasn't went that route in a long time.

WE shall see -- we shall see - - -not to smart to think -- NEVER SAY NEVER LOL - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 31, 2018 06:07 PM #602

@BShark I remember a pretty good Juco player -not even from a really good program that just gave KU fits. - -Juco from Iowa State had some really big games against us - can't remember his name but did quite well I think

Oct 31, 2018 06:11 PM #603

@jayballer73 Donovan Jackson maybe? He was okay.

Shakur Juiston ended up being a total stud for UNLV, but he is definitely an exception. When I look at even the top 10 JUCO prospects any given year, most end up doing next to nothing in D1. It's a real crap shoot.

Oct 31, 2018 06:16 PM #604

@BShark No buddy it wasn't him-- this guy was like I think if I remember right it was like 2-3-possibly 4 years ago - - like maybe a hght range around 6-6 - -6-5 maybe - could really stroke it from the outside when he was hot - could even play inside - just can't remember

Oct 31, 2018 06:22 PM #605

jayballer73 said:

@BShark No buddy it wasn't him-- this guy was like I think if I remember right it was like 2-3-possibly 4 years ago - - like maybe a hght range around 6-6 - -6-5 maybe - could really stroke it from the outside when he was hot - could even play inside - just can't remember

Can't think of a player that fits this description that was a JUCO. Ejim, Kane, Nader and Burton were all HS guys. Well, they all transferred to ISU, but they were HS to another D1 college to ISU. Except for Ejim, he was HS to ISU.

Oct 31, 2018 06:22 PM #606

BShark said:

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

@jayballer73 I'll buy you a beer if KU signs a JUCO basketball player, not happening.

Not saying it WOULD HAPPEN I said COULD it happen. - -really not a whole hell lot of difference between a post grad transfer-OR A REALLY good Juco stud. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think there is actually. I can't think of a JUCO player that has had a huge impact for a good team recently. Self hasn't went that route in a long time.

I know UNLV isn't considered a good team but Juiston is a really good Juco.

Oct 31, 2018 06:23 PM #607

Donovan Jackson?

Oct 31, 2018 07:52 PM #608

1JayhawkLifer said:

Donovan Jackson?

No dam can't remember his name - -I hate that lol

Oct 31, 2018 08:12 PM #609

Dustin Hogue?

Oct 31, 2018 08:34 PM #610

Dam I looked it up - -and admit I THINK I was wrong. - 'I'm now thinking after looking at previous rosters. this name just stuck out

. It was Deonte Burton like 6'4 - -240 lbs. but he wasn't a Juco - -played at Marquette then Iowa state. - -If I remember right - -he was just a very solid guy that could stroke it and even play tough at times inside. - he stroked us pretty good a couple of times I think - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oct 31, 2018 09:03 PM #611

Correct, he was not a JUCO.

Oct 31, 2018 11:48 PM #612

BShark said:

Correct, he was not a JUCO.

lol, ALSO correct he spanked us some times to lmao

Nov 01, 2018 01:38 PM #613

After a while... this all starts to sound like the 9/11 and moon landing conspiracy stuff.

The basketball world can't even accurately predict where star recruits will go after the recruits narrow it down to 2 or 3 schools.

This stuff starts hurting my brain so I focus on our season ahead.

Nov 01, 2018 01:42 PM #614

@drgnslayr It’s game Day! Who cares about HS basketball today? Not me!

Nov 01, 2018 02:15 PM #615

Or how about those Shockers! Edging out a home win against a D2 school!

Nov 01, 2018 02:40 PM #616

@drgnslayr I am soooo ready for the regular season to begin - -soo dam boring , finally getting here - - recruiting for next year is bumming me out - - this dam FBI thing is bumming me out - - - -Duke -- Kentucky - - bumming me out - - and Jay wright? - - Villanova? - -at this point can just plain kiss my a - - - - - SOOOO with that being said -- let me ask you this -Are you READY - -for some KU BASKETBALL? - - you know what I'm trying to say? - I'm trying to go kina like the theme for like they - -Are you ready for some football - -A Sunday Night football lol - - ya like that.

So let's do this. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 01, 2018 02:43 PM #617

drgnslayr said:

Or how about those Shockers! Edging out a home win against a D2 school!

They are in for a world of hurt. -- long season , old Marsha won't be looking so good now. - -their little run is about to come crashing down - -lmao - -

Now like Larry the Cable Guy says - - I don't care who you are that right there is some funny shit - -I don't care who you are lmao -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 01, 2018 02:47 PM #618

This is most assuredly a rebuilding year for GREGGGGGGGGGGG. They had a million kids leave after last year. They need better class spacing. But a couple of their FR will be good in time. Wouldn't shock me if next year they are fighting for an NCAAT bid.

Nov 01, 2018 07:58 PM #619

If the Board of Regents has done its due diligence, they have already done an evaluation of the program and have had a bean counter study the pros, cons and cost of keeping versus firing Miller. In the end, it comes down to money.

Nov 01, 2018 08:20 PM #620

@JayHawkFanToo I would not be so sure that this will come down to money. Integrity continues to mean something, though to a lesser extent than some may prefer. If he's a liar and a cheat, I think that combo will be lethal to his career at AZ. I tend to think you can get by just being a cheat, but if you lie about it, that's a huge consideration.

Nov 01, 2018 08:21 PM #621

Hey man...we got some basketball coming up. In the nearly famous words of Juan Ibarra...." Mr. Comer, are you eggg-cited?"

Nov 05, 2018 06:40 PM #622

:fire: :fire: :fire:

Nov 05, 2018 06:58 PM #623

BShark said:

:fire: :fire: :fire:

Guy knows where all the bodies are buried. Exhibit A of the underlings of College Basketball

Nov 05, 2018 07:52 PM #624

Jordan Hamilton, Avery Bradley, Corey Joseph, Tristian Thompson, LaMarcus Aldridge, Damion James, DJ Augustine, etc.

Nike tried to gift the man a NC.

At least a dozen Top 50 recruits sent his way between 2006-2010. Add in a few guys ranked right at 100 who panned out, and Rick Barnes still didn't get a single of those absolutely stacked teams to a FF. TJ Ford carried him to his one and only. No wonder Nike soured on him and cut him off in 2013. Ten solid years of players gift wrapped and nothing to show for it.

Nov 05, 2018 07:55 PM #625

@Kcmatt7 Nailed it. Looks like Shaka could crash and burn in similar fashion.

Nov 05, 2018 07:56 PM #626

@Kcmatt7

I agree. Texas has had as many or more NBA caliber players than KU during Barnes tenure and nothing much to show for it. Even Smart has continued to get top players and has done even worse; I bet UT fans are wishing Barnes never left.

Nov 05, 2018 07:56 PM #627

Kcmatt7 said:

Jordan Hamilton, Avery Bradley, Corey Joseph, Tristian Thompson, LaMarcus Aldridge, Damion James, DJ Augustine, etc.

Nike tried to gift the man a NC.

At least a dozen Top 50 recruits sent his way between 2006-2010. Add in a few guys ranked right at 100 who panned out, and Rick Barnes still didn't get a single of those absolutely stacked teams to a FF. TJ Ford carried him to his one and only. No wonder Nike soured on him and cut him off in 2013. Ten solid years of players gift wrapped and nothing to show for it.

Nike still pumping kids to them as we've talked about. Allen/Bamba the most recent outliers there

Nov 05, 2018 07:59 PM #628

@BeddieKU23 Yep. Texas is a big brand. It's kind of remarkable they haven't been more of a threat to KU for league titles.

Nov 05, 2018 08:13 PM #629

@BShark

Texas has always been, is and always be a football school first and every other sport a distant second.

Nov 05, 2018 08:15 PM #630

My point is they have had players. If they had a better coach in that time frame maybe they take the league a few times...

Nov 07, 2018 12:09 PM #631

The FBI gave the NCAA permission to start investigating schools tied to the FBI trial. Resolution for Silvio on the horizon? Penalties for KU?

Hold my beer, check back in April

Nov 07, 2018 12:27 PM #632

BeddieKU23 said:

The FBI gave the NCAA permission to start investigating schools tied to the FBI trial. Resolution for Silvio on the horizon? Penalties for KU?

Hold my beer, check back in April

Hell I'll hold your beer lol. - -I can't guarantee that you won't get it back empty lol -you got anymore. lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 07, 2018 12:29 PM #633

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

The FBI gave the NCAA permission to start investigating schools tied to the FBI trial. Resolution for Silvio on the horizon? Penalties for KU?

Hold my beer, check back in April

Hell I'll hold your beer lol. - -I can't guarantee that you won't get it back empty lol -you got anymore. lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Fridge is full, you want some popcorn as well?

Nov 07, 2018 01:24 PM #634

@BeddieKU23 Oh I'm sure we will see a speedy resolution. NOT.

Nov 07, 2018 05:06 PM #635

BeddieKU23 said:

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

The FBI gave the NCAA permission to start investigating schools tied to the FBI trial. Resolution for Silvio on the horizon? Penalties for KU?

Hold my beer, check back in April

Hell I'll hold your beer lol. - -I can't guarantee that you won't get it back empty lol -you got anymore. lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Fridge is full, you want some popcorn as well?

lol--- - -why yes thanks - -I would prefer buttered please - you got any? lol

Nov 07, 2018 05:24 PM #636

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

The FBI gave the NCAA permission to start investigating schools tied to the FBI trial. Resolution for Silvio on the horizon? Penalties for KU?

Hold my beer, check back in April

Hell I'll hold your beer lol. - -I can't guarantee that you won't get it back empty lol -you got anymore. lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Fridge is full, you want some popcorn as well?

lol--- - -why yes thanks - -I would prefer buttered please - you got any? lol

Unreal, butter. The nerve.

Nov 07, 2018 07:35 PM #637

BeddieKU23 said:

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

jayballer73 said:

BeddieKU23 said:

The FBI gave the NCAA permission to start investigating schools tied to the FBI trial. Resolution for Silvio on the horizon? Penalties for KU?

Hold my beer, check back in April

Hell I'll hold your beer lol. - -I can't guarantee that you won't get it back empty lol -you got anymore. lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Fridge is full, you want some popcorn as well?

lol--- - -why yes thanks - -I would prefer buttered please - you got any? lol

Unreal, butter. The nerve.

lmao - - - -ahh come on buddy what's popcorn without butter lol - -Full frig? -- ahh sounds like it's gonna be a really great night lol - -ROCK CHALKALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 07, 2018 08:20 PM #638

And Myron Medcalf's predictions regarding KU:

Kansas will reach the Final Four, Bill Self will take an NBA job after the season: Last summer, Self told ESPN.com he doesn't want to coach past the age of 60. He'll turn 56 in December. And he made that statement before he was connected to the ongoing FBI corruption investigation that has rocked the sport. He has the potential to win another national title with a unique squad that features Dedric Lawson, a 6-9 forward as a point forward and a top-10 recruiting class. He'll take that squad to the last stage of the NCAA tournament for the second consecutive season. And then, Self will hear from an NBA team that will make him an offer he can't refuse. At Big 12 media day, he said he won't run from the FBI drama. He can't. But he can end his NCAA career, head to the NBA and leave some of the drama behind.

Nov 07, 2018 08:27 PM #639

Medcalf is frequently wrong and a total chucklehead, so there is that.

Nov 07, 2018 08:28 PM #640

I've been waiting for the day that Bill Self left for an NBA job. But after he turned down the Cavs job a couple of seasons ago, I am pretty sure that he ends his career at KU. The worst of it is basically over as far as the FBI thing goes. I bet Bill Self is in Lawrence, KS next season.

Nov 07, 2018 08:28 PM #641

Not sure what NBA team is going to make Bill a big offer at this point but I could be wrong obviously.

Nov 07, 2018 08:32 PM #642

Kcmatt7 said:

I've been waiting for the day that Bill Self left for an NBA job. But after he turned down the Cavs job a couple of seasons ago, I am pretty sure that he ends his career at KU. The worst of it is basically over as far as the FBI thing goes. I bet Bill Self is in Lawrence, KS next season.

i think he will be back in Lawrence ks to

Nov 08, 2018 04:57 AM #643

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25210341/ncaa-gets-approval-investigate-schools-college-basketball-corruption-case ↗

Lots of proposed payment info. I must’ve missed the confirmed payment info. I wonder who all will end up ensnared in this mess.

Nov 08, 2018 05:14 AM #644

dylans said:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25210341/ncaa-gets-approval-investigate-schools-college-basketball-corruption-case ↗

Lots of proposed payment info. I must’ve missed the confirmed payment info. I wonder who all will end up ensnared in this mess.

Everybody yet nobody.

Nov 08, 2018 12:37 PM #645

@JAYHAWKFAN214 me too. - - he has turned down NBA opportunities before.- -If he were to EVE leave for the NBA like I've mentioned before -this is the team we should be worried about and that's the San Antonio Spurs - -with the people he knows , when Pops retires. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 08, 2018 01:18 PM #646

I would offer that Self has not had this sort of NCAA scrutiny before. Many coaches bolt under such an environment. My prior view of Self's character would have told me that he would not abandon ship during rough waters. Now, I'm just not so sure. That said, Medcalf is about worthless and his opinion is of course just chatter. But the topic he raised is one that confronts many coaches with the NCAA breathing down one's neck -- why deal with it when there are other opportunities.

But look, Self said KU never provided any inducements and said he didn't know of any third party inducements, so we have nothing to worry about, right? I mean, Self said clearly it's all fiction.

Nov 08, 2018 01:59 PM #647

I believe Self likes the USA basketball gig, I doubt he wants to give it up after just getting it. Self was just made a member of the NCAA ethics committee, it’s not just KU fans who thought he was above reproach. The trial calls everything into question, but I haven’t seen any reason to crucify the man yet. Nothing but circumstantial evidence and that evidence points to other programs as being dirty and making it impossible for KU to recruit (Zion for example) as much or more than to KU. Or are all the programs in the dark and the Shoecos are messing around behind everyone’s backs?

Bill telling an adidas guy that offers to recruit for him ok. The adidas guy didn’t say I’m going to recruit illegally for you. He said I’m going to send players your way, not I’m going to pay for players. I assume there are legal ways outsiders can recruit for you.

I’m uneasy about this mess, but unless there is something concrete that says oherwise, Bill is my guy.

Nov 08, 2018 02:27 PM #648

I'm still not sure where the offer comes from. I also think he'd be a bad fit in the NBA but that's another discussion.

Nov 08, 2018 04:34 PM #649

@dylans One minor point -- folks go to prison based on circumstantial evidence. You don't need blood tests, or an eye witness. And that's in a criminal matter, not our assessment of whether some likely occurred or not. But I get your point. And I respect everyone that says "Bill is my guy." That's loyalty, which is an incredible quality, and the "evidence" is not completely clear.

The question is what does one need here to reach a conclusion. My conclusion is murky because of Self's unequivocal statement. It's now black and white because of what Self said. There is no grey. Either he's a liar and a cheat, or he's a man of incredible integrity in a world of slime. His statement (unfortunately if untrue) paints him into a corner. If his statement is true, the truth will prevail.

He could have said - "KU has provided no inducements to players. As for third parties, I have no direct knowledge of any of anything like that. I do know what we've heard from the trial. It is disappointing. And of course, in this business, you hear whispers. My job and duty is to make sure we do not engage in that conduct as University. When I have learned that a player's eligibility may be compromised, we have worked to resolve the issue, and at times, we don't play that individual. You saw that last season. Adidas is a private company, of course, and makes their own decisions in the best interests of their company. My commitment is that Kansas will not engage in any of that."

I'm not saying that's a perfect draft, but I'm quite sure this type of suggestion was made by an attorney involved in this -- if not, they should seek other counsel.

And it kind of says the same thing. Just with a bit more wiggle room maybe. Again, a first draft that should be modified I'm sure.

I had mentioned a while back that there is real scenario where Self does not return as the coach. That is significantly in play.

This is not a criminal case where the standard of proof is very high. So I'm not giving Self the benefit of the doubt completely, because of what we know so far, but his firm statement certainly has to be considered. Since he is a man we have all respected, that statement has significant weight with me.

Nov 08, 2018 05:04 PM #650

@HighEliteMajor I guess the difference is you have been busting Self’s balls since he couldn’t win a second national championship and I have been supporting him as a great coach/ambassador. It’s just the camps we are in; I’m willing to give him the benefit of doubt while it seems you’re not.

Nov 08, 2018 05:25 PM #651

@HighEliteMajor

Frankly, other than the KT phone conversation in which he never mentioned money and can be interpreted in any of 50 different ways, there is really nothing that indicate KU paid or conspired to pay anyone. Evidence presented at the trail indicate that KU was not aware of payment made to the Prestons who actively tried to keep KU in the dark...and Preston never played an official game for KU.

Coach Self contact with Gassnola can be explained very easily since he was a consultant for Adidas and as such in a position to influence players via his AAU contacts and KU does have a contract with Adidas which I am sure includes a tacit expectation by KU that Adidas will help with recruiting.

More importantly, If Preston was worth at least $90K, is there any doubt that Zion Williamson was worth considerable more, particularly when the evidence presented during the FBI trial indicates his family was asking for more money, housing and jobs?
I have seen many reports on the Internet (I have not personally checked them) that Williamson's mother had declared bankruptcy not that long ago and now lives in am $800K home. Did Zion and family suddenly had a change of heart and decided they would forego all the money and Zion would play for Duke with no strings attached? Where are the questions for Duke and Coach K? Why is the MSM not all over this? How about Sean Miller? There was a lot more testimony directly involving him and yet the two schools bearing the brunt of the MSM are KU and Louisville, the two Adidas flagship schools. How about Under Armour and the $60K allegedly paid to Silvio's guardian to go to Maryland?

I am not big on conspiracies but it smells like a preemptive strike by Nike against the competition and using the FBI as its pawn.

Nov 08, 2018 07:19 PM #652

@BShark Do they still want to play us?

Nov 08, 2018 07:28 PM #653

Again I think the Guilty ruling makes us look better and as @JayHawkFanToo said you can interpreted in several different ways. He didn't say we will give him all that he is asking for, we all know recruiting is game and you have to say whatever you can to keep on the scent. I'll prob be dead before Dook is looked into for the top 3 players they got, one in which we know wanted to get paid. Question for everyone, We known Self has held out guys and currently is SDS, If we had Zion and all of this came out would he withhold him too? Coach K didn't hold out Carter last season tho his name was out in several reports and hasn't held out anyone that I can remember. He thinks/knows hes Untouchable at this point IMO.

Nov 08, 2018 07:29 PM #654

@dylans I can assure you that you are in much greater proximity to Self's "balls" than I have ever been. Hard to move from your vision to see clearly. But I guess you are just a true fan. Superior in all regards. A member of the "I'm more of a fan than you are crowd" then. Always an entertaining, yet shallow, reply.

@JayHawkFanToo I am more concerned about what we don't know. Other info. Squealers that are now convicted. What we do know can be lawyered, of course, as you have done. And I think we overlook the fact that if Adidas reps and Self were working together, the communication with players' parents/guardians would necessarily include the concept that Self doesn't know -- meaning the Adidas reps would posture that way. But that is speculation.

I may be more into conspiracy theories when money is involved. Or certain "causes." I think another conspiracy

Nov 08, 2018 08:24 PM #655

@HighEliteMajor

if you followed the trial, there was testimony that KU personnel was asking Billy increasingly more questions about his recruitment and his mom kept texting him telling him what to say; she went as far as suggesting to Gassnola to say they were romantically involved so the payments would not be deemed illegal, or so she thought. Based on the information available to date, there is nothing that leads me to believe KU knew of the payments and as soon as it suspected it, reported it to the NCAA and sat Billy who never played a game.

If Adidas was paying players on behalf of KU, Ayton, Langford and Williamson would have surely landed at KU and not Arizona and Duke...at least one of them. Remember that up until he picked Arizona, Ayton was considered 100% for KU and until the very end so was Romeo Langford

I believe Coach Self's statement was pretty straight forward and probably a lot more assertive than he was advised it needed to be by his and KU's lawyers. Until I see evidence...any evidence to the contrary, I have to take Coach Self's word. The evidence to date seems to indicate he runs a clean program.

Nov 08, 2018 08:46 PM #656

@JayHawkFanToo Just thoughts here -- if Self and the main recruiter knew of the payments. Or if they were aware vaguely that Adidas helped. All of that could have occurred. Would the compliance office know if Self hid his knowledge (vague or otherwise) from them? It would make great sense to appear ignorant on all fronts. Of course, one can appear ignorant because they really are ignorant. I personally like your scenario the best.

If there were payments to players you mentioned, of course, Adidas (we) could have been outbid. Which goes to some of your prior points.

Really, either we did it and other are too; or we didn't.

That goes to something I said before. If we did it, and other did, and they target us with sanctions, we should blow the whole thing up. Expose everything we know. Burn it down. Because there is no freaking way that Williamson was not paid to go to Duke given the KT stuff. No way.

Nov 08, 2018 08:56 PM #657

@HighEliteMajor

If Adidas was willing to play $90K for Preston who was ranked near the bottom of the top 20, I doubt it would have been outbid on much higher ranked players like Williamson, Ayton and Langford. When you lose all 3 it would appear to indicate that KU is not willing to pay or have someone pay on its behalf for players.

I doubt if we will ever know all that goes on behind the scenes. Maybe a follow up movie to Blue Chips is needed.

Nov 08, 2018 09:04 PM #658

@JayHawkFanToo That is just wildly speculative. You are assuming we would not have been out bid. It would seem, if this narrative is correct, we (Adidas) might have been outbid a lot. Or that a recruit might take say $90,000 to come to KU but might want $120,000 to go to somewhere less appealing. For Williamson, maybe his price for Duke was lower. All speculative, but I sure wouldn't assume we couldn't be out bid.

Nov 08, 2018 09:04 PM #659

Indiana is an Adidas school.

Nov 08, 2018 09:19 PM #660

@HighEliteMajor

If Adidas was willing to pay $90K for Preston, I am sure it would have paid at least 2 or 3 times as much for Williamson or Ayton, who allegedly went to Arizona for $100K. Adidas has less schools to feed than Nike and obviously a smaller budget but, given the chance, I would think they would not pass on such high profile prospect unless there is push back from the program. Hard to tell what the going price for a top prospect is anymore.

Nov 08, 2018 09:32 PM #661

@JayHawkFanToo Ok, I understand your thought. But maybe Ayton liked warm weather and $100,000 vs. cold weather and $150,000. Who knows?

@BShark And ....?

Nov 08, 2018 09:49 PM #662

I was talking to FanToo. He referenced missing players, but Langford went to a school with the same shoe affiliation as KU. The other two went to Nike schools of course.

Nov 08, 2018 09:58 PM #663

@BShark

If I recall correctly he decommited from Louisville, another Adidas school. Looks like Langford was going to end up at Adidas school anyway and it was Indiana because he wanted to be the local player/hero that revived the program.

Nov 08, 2018 10:37 PM #664

HighEliteMajor said:

@dylans I can assure you that you are in much greater proximity to Self's "balls" than I have ever been. Hard to move from your vision to see clearly. But I guess you are just a true fan. Superior in all regards. A member of the "I'm more of a fan than you are crowd" then. Always an entertaining, yet shallow, reply.

I believe I said you bust his balls. I don’t recall you adamantly supporting Self in any way, but you sure are quick to pile on. No game interst only negative FBI info. Now you imply I suck his dick in a very graphic way. Classy as always. Thanks!

Nov 08, 2018 11:37 PM #665

Okay. I just wanna be clear here. Now that Coach Self has come out and said he has not and does not offer inducements nor knows of any 3rd party inducements. Are we back to the program is clean? And coaches are clean?

I just wanna be sure today what the consensus view is here. Cause I had thought just not long ago it was that everybody is doing it, and we should expect the same if we wish to win.

Nov 09, 2018 12:24 AM #666

I still think what I've always thought about it.

Nov 09, 2018 12:54 AM #667

@dylans Just pretend he's a fan with a different opinion, and don't look too closely. It's easier that way.

Nov 09, 2018 01:31 AM #668

Probably a Missouri grad.

Nov 09, 2018 01:41 AM #669

Being right doesn't matter when frail emotions are at work. It never has. I chuckle when I think about how many things that the Self is infallible crowd has cried about, only to see Self actually employ the exact strategy that was suggested. Higher volume three point shooting, four out/one in, using an offense that fits the personnel, more ball handling on the floor, playing the best player over experience, giving freshman game minutes so they can develop. Lest we forget. Ah, but the anger continues ...

Nov 09, 2018 01:41 AM #670

I agree with @HighEliteMajor either Self is a clean or he’s gonna end up looking like a cheat. I’m not a 100% which to believe at this point. We’ve had some piss poor recruiting classes at times if Adidas is really paying our recruits. There is also a chance that Townsend is aware of the payment behind Selfs back or he could be the fall guy. I’ve always thought everyone got a little something behind closed doors, I didn’t think it was 100k for sure. I’d wonder if we will resign Adidas or try to go with Nike. The trouble is with Nike (wether cheating or not) is that we won’t be the top dog like we are at Adidas.

Nov 09, 2018 02:04 AM #671

HEM's coaching record is impeccable.

Nov 09, 2018 04:01 PM #672

@kjayhawks

All the shoecos operate the same way, some are just better at it and have not gotten caught...yet. Adidas needs a big program in the Midwest and is willing to pay for it; Nike has the big football programs in the region and football is still the king. Maybe Under Armour is interested and could make a decent offer but no way Nike pays. It just does not need KU, at least not at what Adidas is paying, and it would face backlash from other programs like Duke, Kentucky and UNC.

Nov 09, 2018 07:59 PM #673

BShark said:

HEM's coaching record is impeccable.

True for almost all of us, isn't it? I myself am unbeaten in Division 1!

Nov 09, 2018 10:50 PM #674

BYU has been hammered by the NCAA. Lawl.

Nov 09, 2018 11:03 PM #675

Apparently the NCAA had evidence that he received $$ from boosters.

Nov 09, 2018 11:14 PM #676

@BShark - “There was no institutional knowledge of or involvement in the infractions. In fact, the NCAA found that Coach Rose promotes an atmosphere of compliance and monitors the program.”

Uh oh for KU....

Nov 10, 2018 12:22 AM #677

Gorilla72 said:

@BShark - “There was no institutional knowledge of or involvement in the infractions. In fact, the NCAA found that Coach Rose promotes an atmosphere of compliance and monitors the program.”

Uh oh for KU....

They had proof that BYU boosters gave him money. We will see what happens here. Thankfully, Billy didn't play. Silvio did but they only have "proof" he got $2500 to pay for some online classes.

Nov 10, 2018 12:43 AM #678

This is really weird....

BYU said in a statement that the university, the coaching staff and the athletic department had no knowledge of the infractions and that they disagreed with vacating wins. The NCAA didn't identify Emery by name but the university's statement said the case involved him.

The university also said that it plans to appeal the decision because it considers the vacating of wins to be too harsh and not consistent with recent cases.

"This sanction includes the most severe vacation-of-record penalty ever imposed in the history of NCAA Division I basketball for infractions that included no institutional knowledge or involvement," the statement said. "In addition, in the case most similar to this situation, appropriate penalties were imposed, but no wins were vacated."

Cougars coach Dave Rose said in a statement that he was disappointed by the ruling and supported the university's plan to appeal.

Emery withdrew from school last season due to personal problems and the reports of improper benefits. The 6-foot-2 guard returned to the program in April and has been reinstated by the NCAA but is sitting out the first nine games of this season. He served as a captain during the 2016-17 season and was third on the team with 13.1 points per game and second with 75 3-pointers.

Emery said on Twitter on Friday that "my intentions were never to hurt the program or university. I'm grateful to Coach Rose and the university for standing by me throughout this entire process."

So...he was reinstated by the NCAA and sitting out 9 games like it has been the case for similar violation but the forfeiting of games is new and seems to be grossly disproportional....in the meantime UNC that offered fake classes to athletes with the full knowledge of the program skates away scot-free?

I believe BYU has a good case to sue the NCAA.

Nov 10, 2018 03:35 AM #679

The NCAA is so pissed about the federal cases they absolutely hammered BYU. Tark's axiom proves true yet again.

Nov 10, 2018 06:06 AM #680

@FarmerJayhawk

LOL. I bet Cleveland Stage is breathing a sigh of relief. :smiley:

Nov 10, 2018 07:03 AM #681

JayHawkFanToo said:

@FarmerJayhawk

LOL. I bet Cleveland Stage is breathing a sigh of relief. :smiley:

That kid who got a pair of sneakers and a rental car to take his girlfriend out for a weekend is as relieved as can be 😅

Nov 19, 2018 03:46 PM #682

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25320378/brian-bowen-ii-files-federal-racketeering-lawsuit-adidas ↗

Shouldn’t he be suing his dad also?

Nov 19, 2018 03:51 PM #683

I was just trying to read through this. His attorneys are saying Self and KT knew of the bribe payments to SDS. So I assume they will be trying to get call logs , texts, and emails from the school.

Of course he lawyers are going to say whatever they can to try and help his client.

His problem is his dad not Adidas.

Nov 19, 2018 03:59 PM #684

?s=21

?s=21

?s=21

?s=21

?s=21

Nov 19, 2018 04:07 PM #685

I'm going to guess that Adidas just settles this out of court. They have a lot more at stake than the $2M they'll end up paying him. Not even worth the risk from what could come out even during a motion to dismiss. Pay him and move on.

Nov 19, 2018 04:15 PM #686

Lol, Bowen is a real piece of work.

Nov 19, 2018 04:20 PM #687

@BShark Can't blame him for taking free money... A few Million dollars and a nice little NDA will likely be coming.

Nov 19, 2018 04:21 PM #688

heh

Nov 19, 2018 04:24 PM #689

@BShark Oh such a reach on both lol. But no way in Hell KU Lawyers allow KU to be involved in a lawsuit by someone they never recruited.

Nov 19, 2018 04:27 PM #690

@Kcmatt7 Ok, then who else do you pay ... again. Others? Preston? He didn't get to play. That quick advice should be reconsidered.

This lawsuit might not survive a motion to dismiss.

But it should concern everyone here. Don't just brush it off. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, and I believe this firmly, there is a real chance Bill Self is not here next year as a result of all of this mess. This sort of stuff, where folks can be deposed, is concerning.

Nov 19, 2018 04:33 PM #691

@HighEliteMajor Sure. Pay him too.

Nov 19, 2018 04:46 PM #692

@Kcmatt7 Glad you're not a lawyer.

Nov 19, 2018 05:00 PM #693

This is absolutely laughable by Bowen. He knew the rules just as much as ADIDAS did and broke them. He knew if he got caught, he would lose his amateur status and have to leave college. Why don't I sue GM next time I get a speeding ticket because they make the car capable of going faster than the limit, Lmao what a tool.

Nov 19, 2018 05:24 PM #694

@HighEliteMajor I'm glad you're not in PR.

Nov 19, 2018 05:38 PM #695

So, if I understand this suit,
a) it is filed by Brian Bowen, the player - not the father;
b) the father is not included, even though he was the one who asked for/received the payments; and
c) the suit includes many people besides Adidas in an effort to grab the largest settlement possible.

I’m not certain anyone wants this to go to trial. It’s almost extortion?

Thanksgiving dinner in the Bowen household this year should be really strained around the table....

Nov 19, 2018 05:45 PM #696

@HighEliteMajor What's more expensive long-term for Adidas? Dragging out a lawsuit that will have national attention, paying more lawyers, and hurting the relationship between several of your most profitable schools OR paying a few million dollars to make the problem go away? I think the decision is pretty easy. Squash all bugs and get the negative PR out of the news as quickly as possible.

This isn't about whether or not Adidas could win or lose the case. It is about public image and future profitability.

Nov 19, 2018 06:04 PM #697

If I were a betting man (I am not) I would guess the lawsuit will be dismissed and the judge will suggest he sues his own father. FBI lawsuit notwithstanding, I still don’t know of a law that prevents a business from giving money to anyone, they do it all the time and it is call advertising and marketing and it is not Adidas responsibility that receipients jeopardize eligibility in something else or that they prefer to keep it hidden. How soon before creepy porn lawyer starts representing prospects whose payments by shoecos were not sufficient or went south?

Nov 19, 2018 07:12 PM #698

Depends on what was attached to the payments I suppose. ie go to a certain school or to murder a random person. The Bowen’s weren’t given money for nothing. The money isn’t the crime by itself it’s what it’s purchasing.

It’s just a bunch of junk. Hopefully it all gets cleaned up and levels the playing field (to KUs advantage or not). But that won’t happen until all the shoecos are investigated and have the fear of god put into them.

It’s like drugs you’ve got to get the dealer not the users if you want to eliminated the problem.

Nov 19, 2018 07:25 PM #699

@Kcmatt7 Trust me, I understand your concept. Paying to make it go away is not something unique. If there is legal claim, you try to get it dismissed prior to paying millions. And if there are other snakes that can come out of the cracks wanting money, you just don't pay millions. It requires a bit more thought than just pay "a few million dollars."

Nov 20, 2018 01:59 AM #700

BShark said:

Lol, Bowen is a real piece of work.

Which one?

Nov 20, 2018 01:59 AM #701

@BeddieKU23 Yes.

Nov 20, 2018 02:02 AM #702

So Bowen can go blue in the face as much as he wants but he and his father schemed from high school maybe even before to get money at every step. Every single school that recruited him was trying to Pay him and his father. Such a joke it's not even funny

Nov 20, 2018 06:54 PM #703

@BeddieKU23

If there is justice in our system, the charges would be dismissed and the plaintiff order to pay attorneys fees for all the defendants.

Nov 23, 2018 06:32 PM #704

@JayHawkFanToo

This is the most hilarious lawsuit so I agree. This kid has no clue what people know of him. Even the average fan who follows recruiting knows this wasnt just his dad the two situations are so connected.

Nov 29, 2018 12:50 AM #705

Well my buddy told me and just read - -Says Silvio DeSousa's eligibility ruling isn't expected to linger long into the rest of the Season. - - Bill Self told @ Matt Norlander.

Humm , sounds like ruling decision is coming for to long. - -you watch just sit back watch - -I got this gut feeling the NCAA going to make him pay back the money - - have to sit XXX amount of games - -which I think they will count the number he has already sit out and then how ever many more - -and then he will be cleared to play and back on the floor - -watch and wait and see - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 29, 2018 01:05 AM #706

jayballer73 said:

Well my buddy told me and just read - -Says Silvio DeSousa's eligibility ruling isn't expected to linger long into the rest of the Season. - - Bill Self told @ Matt Norlander.

Humm , sounds like ruling decision is coming for to long. - -you watch just sit back watch - -I got this gut feeling the NCAA going to make him pay back the money - - have to sit XXX amount of games - -which I think they will count the number he has already sit out and then how ever many more - -and then he will be cleared to play and back on the floor - -watch and wait and see - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

🙏🏻

Nov 29, 2018 03:24 AM #707

@jayballer73

That has been the typical penalty in the past but, based on how harshly the NCAA penalized BYU ↗, there into telling what could happen. On the other hand,
UNC got away with not even a slap on the wrist for far more egregious violations.

Nov 29, 2018 03:42 AM #708

That wouldn’t surprise me at all if they got a answer in the next couple of weeks. I said after the trial that a 6-9 game suspension is what I thought SDS would get. We are coming up on that. Even if it’s not the asnswer we are hoping for I still hope there is some resolution soon.

Nov 29, 2018 10:32 AM #709

@jayballer73

So what are you thinking? Should we expect an announcement any day now? How bout Friday before 5? Sunday after Church? Monday afternoon? Soon? Soonish? Sooner? Maybe sometime in 2018? Maybe sometime in 2019. Maybe after the season is over?

Just asking for a friend. Of course kidding, but we've been through this so many times to know Self's updates mean nothing in regards to eligibility.

Nov 29, 2018 07:53 PM #710

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jayballer73

That has been the typical penalty in the past but, based on how harshly the NCAA penalized BYU ↗, there into telling what could happen. On the other hand,
UNC got away with not even a slap on the wrist for far more egregious violations.

I agree , seems as though let's see what was the amount with Silvio? - - 2,500. - -I could see this happening , as there has been others that repaid their amounts haven't they and eligible?

Nov 29, 2018 07:57 PM #711

Woodrow said:

That wouldn’t surprise me at all if they got a answer in the next couple of weeks. I said after the trial that a 6-9 game suspension is what I thought SDS would get. We are coming up on that. Even if it’s not the asnswer we are hoping for I still hope there is some resolution soon.

ya I was just going to say to you - -were coming up about that time frame - -just kind of funny . that about the same time this little article/tweet what the hell ever it was - -comes about the time of a 8-10 game suspension has run it's course.

I've been looking right about the time Conference rolls around so plays right in line with what the outcome of the ruling would be. -- -Silvio would mean a world of difference to how this team looks/shapes up. You just look at this guy - - just a dam specimen - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Nov 29, 2018 07:59 PM #712

BeddieKU23 said:

@jayballer73

So what are you thinking? Should we expect an announcement any day now? How bout Friday before 5? Sunday after Church? Monday afternoon? Soon? Soonish? Sooner? Maybe sometime in 2018? Maybe sometime in 2019. Maybe after the season is over?

Just asking for a friend. Of course kidding, but we've been through this so many times to know Self's updates mean nothing in regards to eligibility.

The old sit and wait game . - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Dec 05, 2018 02:08 AM #713

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2018/11/29/arizona-wildcats-legal-bills-ncaa-basketball-investigation/2120399002/ ↗

Dec 05, 2018 02:10 AM #714

@mayjay Nothing to see here sir.

Dec 05, 2018 02:17 AM #715

@BShark I just put it up because it tends to confirm my contention that the UA situation is far from resolved.

Dec 05, 2018 02:18 AM #716

mayjay said:

@BShark I just put it up because it tends to confirm my contention that the UA situation is far from resolved.

I was being very sarcastic.

Dec 05, 2018 02:31 AM #717

@BShark I thought maybe it had been posted before since it was last week. I lost my first post with an explanation, so I just did the link.

Nice one with all the redactions!

Dec 05, 2018 02:34 PM #718

NCAA Committee on infractions will release findings today at noon on the Oregon Men's and Women's basketball programs.

Dec 05, 2018 02:34 PM #719

2019 trials should be crazy.

Dec 05, 2018 02:35 PM #720

@Woodrow Sounds ominous.

Dec 05, 2018 02:51 PM #721

Woodrow said:

NCAA Committee on infractions will release findings today at noon on the Oregon Men's and Women's basketball programs.

Nike will make it go away no matter what it says

Dec 05, 2018 03:14 PM #722

BeddieKU23 said:

Woodrow said:

NCAA Committee on infractions will release findings today at noon on the Oregon Men's and Women's basketball programs.

Nike will make it go away no matter what it says

Bingo.

Dec 05, 2018 03:17 PM #723

Nike Lawyers at work doing this now. hmmm we didn't see Adidas doing anything for the programs they tried to cripple. @BShark

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25452028/attorneys-want-federal-charges-ncaa-hoops-scandal-dropped ↗

Dec 05, 2018 03:19 PM #724

Nike's co-founder Phil Knight is an Oregon Alumnus and the schools is often referred as Nike University because of the influence it has. Any violations that affect Oregon would almost have to involve Nike; it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Dec 05, 2018 05:55 PM #725

Oregon got a slap on the wrist, actually it was more like a light breeze. Nike made sure the basketball program wasn't losing its top 10 recruiting class. They got more checks to write

Dec 05, 2018 06:17 PM #726

Oregon’s violations and penalties. 🙄

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/oregon-commits-violations-men-s-and-women-s-basketball-women-s-track-and-field-and-football ↗

Dec 05, 2018 06:19 PM #727

Gorilla72 said:

Oregon’s violations and penalties. 🙄

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/oregon-commits-violations-men-s-and-women-s-basketball-women-s-track-and-field-and-football ↗

This was the equivalent of putting Altman in timeout for 5 minutes and taking away his tv privileges for 10

Dec 05, 2018 06:21 PM #728

A wag of the finger.

Dec 05, 2018 06:53 PM #729

@BShark if that...

Dec 05, 2018 06:56 PM #730

@Gorilla72 That spells big trouble for Cleveland St.

Dec 05, 2018 08:09 PM #731

NCAA announced no penalties for any programs tied to FBI trial until after Final 4.

Dec 05, 2018 08:14 PM #732

That probably means there isn't any movement on Silvio's eligibility until after the season is over as well. He certainly doesn't deserve that fate

Dec 05, 2018 09:01 PM #733

We would probably get punished anyway since he played in the final four. Leave him out until January then reinstate him.

Dec 05, 2018 10:46 PM #734

BeddieKU23 said:

NCAA announced no penalties for any programs tied to FBI trial until after Final 4.

Hate to mess up Duke in any way shape or form.

Dec 06, 2018 02:47 PM #735

dylans said:

BeddieKU23 said:

NCAA announced no penalties for any programs tied to FBI trial until after Final 4.

Hate to mess up Duke in any way shape or form.

I'd love to pile on Duke but this has much more to do with Kansas. We are fortunate what could be a banner season won't be impacted until its over, at least

Dec 06, 2018 03:18 PM #736

@BeddieKU23 No way the NCAA wants to mess with Duke. KU isn’t playing DeSousa this year. Zion is playing and has a ton more baggage than DeSousa, but less proof at the moment. Assuming the Zion payment happened it insulates KU from infractions - if they go after KU’s wins with DeSousa they’d have to do the same to Duke/Zion. And do we really think anything truly negative will happen to Duke?

Dec 06, 2018 04:30 PM #737

@dylans While fandom leads us to overtly support our team, your statements seem to be from a fan standpoint that need substantiation. Is Duke really dirty and the NCAA ignoring it? How do you know. I want to believe it, but if they were really dirty and the NCAA was ignoring it you can bet your bottom dollar their neighbor called UNC down the road would be beating that drum loudly.

Dec 06, 2018 04:50 PM #738

@wissox what about those hundred dollar bills stuffed in his socks? j/k....BUT, his mother declares bankruptcy a year ago, and now ...suddenly....she owns a brand new 800,000 house. Hmmmm....

Dec 06, 2018 05:20 PM #739

@wissox

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously said that he could not use words to describe pornography but "I know it when I see it."

Likewise, while it would and actually is very difficult to find incontrovertible evidence that programs like Duke or Kentucky cheat since the gist of the process is aimed at plausible deniability, we can see the appearance and results which would appear to indicate they do. We cannot prove they cheat but we know it when we see it.

Dec 06, 2018 05:34 PM #740

Everyone's dirty. Whether or not the head coach knows it or believes it, I don't know. But every single school playing D1 basketball, that is any good, has a player getting paid cash under the table. It's the people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones scenario.

Also, there is the having to prove it part of the equation. UNC could call the NCAA and say Duke is dirty. And the NCAA would ask them what proof they had. And even if they said a recruit asked them for money, but they said no and he went to Duke. Well, does that mean for certain they took money to go to Duke? Not necessarily. The NCAA doesn't have the power to look up the parents bank records. There is nothing they can really do. If they suspended every player that was accused of taking money, there would be nobody left to play D1 basketball because anyone could accuse anyone.

Now, to the favoring of Duke. I have no clue. My best bet would be to protect Coach Ks legacy. They are certainly not clean.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1335637-are-coach-k-and-duke-not-as-squeaky-clean-as-we-all-think-they-are ↗
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100919&page=1 ↗

A 2003 New Orleans Times-Picayune investigation (article not available online) revealed that former Duke guard Chris Duhon's mother “landed a job working for a Duke booster; co-workers say the job opening was never posted and that Harper was overpaid and lacked qualifications.”

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2011/7/31/2307144/ncaa-rules-the-facts-are-not-on-mike-krzyzewskis-side ↗

https://sicem365.com/forums/3/topics/25954 ↗

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article207007143.html ↗

Coach K is certainly not a Saint. From little violations to having parents/players paid by Nike, they aren't squeaky clean at all.

Dec 06, 2018 06:54 PM #741

@JayHawkFanToo I agree with that explanation but when we write publicly that Duke cheats, I like to say where's the cash stucked socks that @KUSTEVE has? Law talk confuses my somewhat dyslexic mind so plausible deniability doesn't make much sense to me.

Part of my point is the allegation is made that the NCAA favors Duke and Kentucky. Only those two programs for some reason and hammers everyone else. I wonder if KU's accountability department has spent time looking at Duke and Kentucky as the spotlight shone on us? I bet they have. I bet UNC's has too. I don't think they would let the NCAA slide if they saw evidence of preferential treatment for those two programs, do you?

Dec 06, 2018 07:06 PM #742

@wissox

Plausible deniability simply indicates that the process is done in a way that allows Duke or UK to deny...with a straight face...they were aware of illegal stuff done on their behalf or for their benefit even when they knew full well it was going on.

As far as UNC blowing the whistle on Duke it is very unlikely to happen since it usually does not happen with same conference members, UNC does not recruit the same players Duke does and more importantly, UNC, after all its shenanigans with fake classes and improper benefits, has no moral authority to accuse anyone else of illegal behavior.

Dec 06, 2018 07:20 PM #743

@wissox I could've sworn the last time I watched him, I saw a "Benjamin" poking out of his sock...

Mar 03, 2020 10:25 PM #744

Dennis Dodd is reporting that KU will make their appeal they sent to the NCAA public on Thursday.

Mar 03, 2020 10:59 PM #745

🤮

Mar 03, 2020 11:20 PM #746

@Woodrow said in FBI...here we go:

Dennis Dodd is reporting that KU will make their appeal they sent to the NCAA public on Thursday.

Then after the NCAA get's that response from KU . the NCAA has 90 days to respond to KU'S response , then they have to sit up a date for the hearing , then they make their decision , then comes the Appeal , then another Appeal , then another appeal. appeal - - -appeal - - appeal. - So bottom line is like they just said on our sports program , it's gonna be some time before we know the outcome