🏀 KuBuckets Archive

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Bill-Self-Redshirt-for-Silvio-De-Sousa-not-a-realistic-possibility-yet-124744787/ ↗

"Certainly the status hasn't changed even though wheels are in motion," Self said on Wednesday. "The status hasn't changed, and it's still preliminary. But I certainly hope we can have him back soon."

WHEELS ARE IN MOTION.

Yeah. He can continue to be a practice buddy here or go make some money somewhere else.

It's entirely possible he needs College but if he's not going to graduate then KU is nothing more then some training for him at this point. The NCAA isn't going to let him play this year

I mean nothing is stopping him from going to Europe and playing and making some money right now. So yes it sucks for the kid not to be able to play, but the "poor Silvio" is a little off base IMO.

@Woodrow

Well if you look at it from this way- Self and KT are still coaching, KU is still playing games, but Silvio gets to sit its a double standard.

@BeddieKU23 I totally understand that point of view, but Self is the HC and is the program. That is just the way it is.

My point is that it is not like KU just threw him out on the streets. He is still on scholarship, getting world class training, and living a better life then most.

@BeddieKU23 Assuming that there is no evidence that Self or KT conspired in paying Silvio's guardian, why would Self or KT be suspended? Or are you talking about the current information warranting suspension more broadly (outside of Silvio)?

With Silvio, there is no real denial now from his camp.

We have evidence that Silvio's guardian was paid by UA and then some cash apparently from Adidas. That compromises eligibility of course, which could compromise our season if he plays (if it's not already compromised).

On the other hand, because as Self said, integrity is very important (a "fundamental role" as the coach) -- if there is that evidence regarding Silvio, or with any other player, I agree completely on coaches being suspended.

And I completely agree that I feel sorry for the kid. He has responsibility, of course, but it's a tangled web.

Yeah I don't think Silvio was involved in asking for money at all. He probably didn't see a dime of it either, other than paying for the online classes technically.

@BeddieKU23 Silvio is in this "pickle" because he had a guardian who apparently sold Silvio's services to not just one but two universities. At best, Silvio took no interest in the instructions he was given to abruptly change his choice. At worst, he was complicit and jeopardized his career and KU's entire program. I see no similar information regarding the coaches except KT's discussion of what Zion's family supposedly wanted but certainly never got from KU.

Woodrow said:

@BeddieKU23 I totally understand that point of view, but Self is the HC and is the program. That is just the way it is.

My point is that it is not like KU just threw him out on the streets. He is still on scholarship, getting world class training, and living a better life then most.

Absolutely I agree with you.

Silvio is the easy escape-goat right now with how the rules are currently set up. The player gets punished (can't play) but everyone and everything else is business as usual. There was no "review" of Self or KT that we know of publicly. I'd asume its not as shiny rose gold as it seems behind the scenes but as far as we know Silvio is the fall boy, which is my only issue in all this.

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 Silvio is in this "pickle" because he had a guardian who apparently sold Silvio's services to not just one but two universities. At best, Silvio took no interest in the instructions he was given to abruptly change his choice. At worst, he was complicit and jeopardized his career and KU's entire program. I see no similar information regarding the coaches except KT's discussion of what Zion's family supposedly wanted but certainly never got from KU.

Of course the rules are set up to punish/hold out Silvio for his guardian's actions, if true. Whether he (Silvio) was involved we don't know for sure. If he wasn't its awful crap luck. If he was involved then its a good thing he's not playing

Where were the online classes from? KU?

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 Assuming that there is no evidence that Self or KT conspired in paying Silvio's guardian, why would Self or KT be suspended? Or are you talking about the current information warranting suspension more broadly (outside of Silvio)?

With Silvio, there is no real denial now from his camp.

We have evidence that Silvio's guardian was paid by UA and then some cash apparently from Adidas. That compromises eligibility of course, which could compromise our season if he plays (if it's not already compromised).

On the other hand, because as Self said, integrity is very important (a "fundamental role" as the coach) -- if there is that evidence regarding Silvio, or with any other player, I agree completely on coaches being suspended.

And I completely agree that I feel sorry for the kid. He has responsibility, of course, but it's a tangled web.

It's definitely a tangled web and I struggle to find a balance between all this. I was just looking at it through Silvio's eyes. He sits, KU's playing games, Self and KT are coaching. It would be hard to imagine he's not looking at this and being like why am I the only one being punished?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Where were the online classes from? KU?

I believe it was for HS credits to get him eligible to enroll early. I could be wrong though.

Why can't Silvio take legal action against the guardian?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Why can't Silvio take legal action against the guardian?

Wouldn't matter in the eyes of the NCAA.

@BShark fishy. Our h.s. Doesn't have online classes so seems weird to me.

@mayjay

What is interesting is that Silvio chose to come to KU not because KU paid (it did not) but in spite the the fact the Under Armour paid , allegedly $60K, to go to another school. Sounds like he would have come to KU regardless of the $2,500 on-line class payment by Adidas.

I read the $60,000 was paid directly to a strength and conditioning coach by a Maryland booster who wanted his money back (Maryland issue!). Thus no $$$ through the guardian’s account and the NCAA will have to be satisfied Somehow. The $2,500 is relatively minor in my mind, much like some prior small $$ payments at KU.

It will take a while to sort this mess out.

Moving to international ball (a suggestion made by other posters) didn’t work out for Preston. I’m not aware of any high school player that navigated those waters very successfully....

https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Maryland-Basketball-Booster-Allegedly-Paid-Silvio-De-Sousa-123186129/ ↗

@JayHawkFanToo By my count, it's up to $82,500 -- $60,000 from a booster, $20,000 from UA, and $2,500 from Adidas.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think he could take legal action if he was 1) a minor when this occurred, or 2) if it was done completely without his knowledge. He'd sue the guardian on a breach of fiduciary duty claim for one. But that won't happen.

HighEliteMajor said:

@JayHawkFanToo By my count, it's up to $82,500 -- $60,000 from a booster, $20,000 from UA, and $2,500 from Adidas.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think he could take legal action if he was 1) a minor when this occurred, or 2) if it was done completely without his knowledge. He'd sue the guardian on a breach of fiduciary duty claim for one. But that won't happen.

This is murky, the UA/booster thing might be related. He said he needed to pay back UA but maybe it was the booster or maybe he was just playing Adidas. Can't really trust Fenny at all so we don't really know.

@BShark can we trust any of them?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark can we trust any of them?

Who? But generally I'd say no.

@HighEliteMajor

The alleges $20K was supposed to be a payment by Adidas to reimburse the booster/UA but there is no evidence it ever took place. I am not even sure the FBI ever showed proof of the $60K transaction either. Frankly, the FBI case was built with smoke and mirrors and other than a few recordings and the word of Gassnola wanting a deal I am not sure the money was ever tracked down.

@JayHawkFanToo Ok .. I'm sure there's a paypal or venmo transaction in there somewhere, too. Still puzzled how a guardian escapes prosecution. If they're prosecuting, they need to target all participants. He's as much a conspirator of this non-crime (editorializing) as any of them.

@HighEliteMajor

A reasonable person would think so but we are talking about the government...and whatever political agenda it is following.

Poor Silvio.
Never want to see a kid stuck in NCAA limbo. We all know that could last awhile.
Although you’d have to think he knew “somebody” had to pay for the $2,500 online course he apparently needed to attend KU.
Small potatoes I know, but did he think it was coming out of Fenny’s pocket? His parents?
I hope the money aspect is limited to this and he somehow pays it back (no loans from Fenny!) and returns second semester.

I know nobody cares but these kids "stuck in limbo", like Silvio, still get a free college education. Imagine any other scholarship recipient breaking a big part of the scholarship agreement and still receiving it.

@BigBad For Silvio, we still don't know if he is complicit. But, BYU has let the guy who personally accepted thousands in benefits back onto their team. I wonder if the NCAA's order that they vacate 47 wins will affect his position with the coaches or teammates.

@mayjay Most interesting in the BYU deal is the somewhat analogous situation. There was was no info to suggest the coaches or the school knew. Paid by a third party supporter of the program.

@HighEliteMajor Since the info isn't developed yet, all we can do, of course, is speculate. The biggest difference I see so far is that the money and benefits went directly to the BYU kid, followed by the fact that the payments were from a long-lasting booster of BYU. While an Adidas rep could be a booster, that company was also "boosting" dozens of other schools so there are different principal/agent considerations involved--predominantly, KU had no apparent authority over anything the Adidas guys were doing. Further, most university boosters have an ongoing relationship with athletics, attending games, getting preferred seating, etc, so the schools are usually presumed to be in cahoots when their players get extras. It might be possible for KU to demonstrate a sufficient lack of connection with the Adidas guy, including his desire to pay funds to induce separate pro agency relationships independent of KU's concerns.

Enough differences that I would feel comfortable with arguing KU's case. (Then again, I was comfortable arguing all types of crappy legal positions way back when--you lose 95% of the time appealing court-martial convictions, so you learn to live with it!)

@mayjay I think the lack of significant connection with Adidas is perfect logic. I think you're right on there. They weren't our agent since Self has said we have no knowledge. They were acting in their self interest, as a private company, and not on behalf of the university. While I think that's obviously enough to make the kid ineligible or subject to suspension (the receipt of money, guardian or otherwise), that should have zero to do with Kansas (of course, unless ... you know).

Here's a link on the BYU deal if anyone is interested.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/byu-basketball-program-penalized-by-ncaa-will-vacate-wins-after-current-player-received-extra-benefits/ ↗

@mayjay

I would think there is a heck of a lot more to the BYU situation than we known. It is one of the more severe penalties ever for something that has routinely warranted only a few games suspension for the student. It really makes no sense based on the information publically available to date.

Could use this guy about now with Doke out. Thanks NCAA

@BeddieKU23

Sorry — but (sic) ‘escape-goat’?

I'm confident this could be solved by the Guardian getting his bank to send his records to the NCAA.

But he won't.... This is one of the few times that I wouldn't blame the NCAA. There is someone admitting to paying De Sousa under oath. And the problem could very easily be solved.

Now if the NCAA has all the info and is slow playing it, I will totally agree it's their faults. But if information is being withheld, it isn't necessarily their fault.

mikedece said:

@BeddieKU23

Sorry — but (sic) ‘escape-goat’?

Yes indeed

@Kcmatt7

I agree that his guardian could clear some things up for Silvio. The more time that passes makes you think he hasn't. And the only one suffering from this is the kid he's supposed to be helping.

@Kcmatt7 Bank records of course only document what is deposited and withdrawn, not cash that is not deposited as we know. Hard to believe this dude put it in the bank. If I'm the investigator, bank records don't mean much in this situation when looking for wrongdoing -- meaning the absence of the transaction is of little value. Of course, bank records can hurt, too, if money was deposited. There it would be value, but not what you're assuming. I guess my point is if there was no transaction(s), and investigator, that wouldn't mean anything to me.

@BeddieKU23 We know this dude is a snake. My question is whether Silvio would just be flat ineligible. If not, give us a suspension. What other info is need. Heck, if I were KU, I'd ask the NCAA to assume he got the UA money and the $2500, and then tell me the suspension and conditions (payback or whatever) and be done with it. If he's just determined ineligible in with those facts, then I'd want to know that too.

Maybe they have .. that makes more sense to me. Coming up with the $22,500 could be the issue. I don't know. I'd chip in a grand to help pay it back -- but then I'd get a fraud charge, right? But only if the prosecutor deems it important enough to charge.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 Bank records of course only document what is deposited and withdrawn, not cash that is not deposited as we know. Hard to believe this dude put it in the bank. If I'm the investigator, bank records don't mean much in this situation when looking for wrongdoing -- meaning the absence of the transaction is of little value. Of course, bank records can hurt, too, if money was deposited. There it would be value, but not what you're assuming. I guess my point is if there was no transaction(s), and investigator, that wouldn't mean anything to me.

@BeddieKU23 We know this dude is a snake. My question is whether Silvio would just be flat ineligible. If not, give us a suspension. What other info is need. Heck, if I were KU, I'd ask the NCAA to assume he got the UA money and the $2500, and then tell me the suspension and conditions (payback or whatever) and be done with it. If he's just determined ineligible in with those facts, then I'd want to know that too.

Maybe they have .. that makes more sense to me. Coming up with the $22,500 could be the issue. I don't know. I'd chip in a grand to help pay it back -- but then I'd get a fraud charge, right? But only if the prosecutor deems it important enough to charge.

I tend to agree he's a snake. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I just have a hard time believing he couldn't have settled this situation for Silvio already, or at least given information that would have helped the situation one way or the other. Which leads my mind down the rabbit hole in regards to the other player this Guardian is involved with, Bruno Fernando, a Soph at Maryland which ties that whole payment fiasco together in some way. The alleged 60k and 20k payback all tie this together. What if providing info for Silvio ends up costing Bruno his eligibility as well because of this guardian. So I wonder how much a role that plays here. Why give up both eggs in the pot if you can keep one payday alive. I honestly have no idea if I'm on the right path or not but that's what crosses my mind in regards to this whole thing.

I think KU is in the appeal stage already and usually we don't hear about anything regarding that until resolution is near or something pops up in the media that puts it out in the open. Maybe the NCAA is still looking for info/waiting for info/searching for info etc but enough time has passed that I think we are beyond that. Silvio has already sat 7 games and 2 exhibitions so at this point no matter the actual dollar amount he's responsible or going to be held accountable for he's getting close to losing half a season. At some point and maybe that's already passed, Silvio will have de-facto missed more time then he should have without an official ruling. It would be nice to have closure here, for once.

The $60,000, IIRC, was paid by a Maryland basketball supporter to a strength coach. Directly, probably. That supporter has ZERO incentive to admit to it as that would throw MD under the bus. SDS/guardian won’t admit to it because it verifies the action occurred. Ergo, no resolution. 🤬

I don’t believe $2,500 is that big an issue. It’s the $60K that’s stalling everything, I believe.

I have little faith SDS will see the court again. 😢

@Gorilla72

Where did you get your information? As I recall, Gassnola testified that a Maryland booster paid the $60K directly to Falmagne to have Sivio go to Maryland and once Silvio picked KU he, the booster, wanted his money back.

@JayHawkFanToo i wonder if he got it back?

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 Bank records of course only document what is deposited and withdrawn, not cash that is not deposited as we know. Hard to believe this dude put it in the bank. If I'm the investigator, bank records don't mean much in this situation when looking for wrongdoing -- meaning the absence of the transaction is of little value. Of course, bank records can hurt, too, if money was deposited. There it would be value, but not what you're assuming. I guess my point is if there was no transaction(s), and investigator, that wouldn't mean anything to me.

@BeddieKU23 We know this dude is a snake. My question is whether Silvio would just be flat ineligible. If not, give us a suspension. What other info is need. Heck, if I were KU, I'd ask the NCAA to assume he got the UA money and the $2500, and then tell me the suspension and conditions (payback or whatever) and be done with it. If he's just determined ineligible in with those facts, then I'd want to know that too.

Maybe they have .. that makes more sense to me. Coming up with the $22,500 could be the issue. I don't know. I'd chip in a grand to help pay it back -- but then I'd get a fraud charge, right? But only if the prosecutor deems it important enough to charge.

If it never hit the bank, that checks something off the list. If he does have large cash transactions, that is a red flag. Anyone receiving a large cash transaction would have some sort of proof of that transaction. I see what you're saying. But transparency on Fenny's part would clear this right up. One way or the other...

I hate guardians and handlers and parents who try to cash in on the 16, 17 and 18 year old kids being recruited.

I never expected, asked for, or received a nickel from Lowe's or the Marines when I helped my stepsons decide where they were going. Geez!

JayHawkFanToo said:

@Gorilla72

Where did you get your information? As I recall, Gassnola testified that a Maryland booster paid the $60K directly to Falmagne to have Sivio go to Maryland and once Silvio picked KU he, the booster, wanted his money back.

I can’t locate the source again. I’ll continue to look. Maybe I misread it....🙄

@BeddieKU23 It's HILARIOUS that Bruno gets to play and Silvio doesn't.

@Kcmatt7 To an investigator, the absence of a bank deposit on an illegal transaction means nothing. Or at best, a very very small box to check. It’s expected that they won’t deposit it. Folks in such situations retain such cash. Most often converting it or sometimes laundering it in larger schemes. Much like the self employed deck builder who gets cash payments. Or the drug dealer.

Where you’re going on proof of a large cash transaction is the most likely way bank records are most helpful —— comparing to a standard of living, looking at purchases. The absence of payment in the bank records. You can then see that cash was converted to an asset or used to pay a debt — a down payment on a car, a boat, private school tuition, a money order to pay a credit card bill, and even groceries. If a standard of living is not reflected in the records, that’s helpful evidence. That sort of investigation has more layers, and one that would be quite difficult for the NCAA.

@HighEliteMajor

I agree that a fully empowered investigator can get a lot of information and extrapolate as you indicated. The problem for the NCAA is that it has no authority to compel anyone outside of program personnel to produce any records, cooperate or even talk to them so even the basic information an investigator would require might not be available or reliable.

The end result is that the entire investigation goes into limbo. Despite assurances to the contrary, looks like Falmagne has not been forthcoming, the NCAA will no render a ruling and the only option KU has is to either not play Silvio or dismiss him all together which would have horrible optics. Falmagne apparently got the money, Silvio gets to practice against high level competition and gets valuable training by some of the best trainers in the business, all expenses paid, and likely will go pro at the end of the season...and KU gets the shaft.

@JayHawkFanToo This feels a bit like the Cliff limbo .. no end is sight. I wonder what records the NCAA will have access to from the FBI? There was discussion of that.

@HighEliteMajor

The question is...would the FBI be able to share information that is not public with the NCAA which is not a government or law enforcement agency? I can see all kinds of privacy issues being raised but I don't know what the applicable law is in this area. The FBI and other government agencies have refused to disclose information about wrong doing by government officials while doing government work and being paid by taxpayers, so I would think it would be hesitant to disclose information to a non-government agency about private citizens doing things that violate NCAA regulations but don't necessarily break the law.

The saga continues...frankly, I would be shocked if Silvio is cleared to play college basketball before he decide to either go to the G League or overseas; apparently at one time he had a contract to play in Spain so that might still be a potential destination. At this time, I will guess that KU knows this will the case and has no hopes that Silvio will play but as long as there is a scholarship available it send a message to potential recruits that KU stands by them and gives KU players a capable big for practice.

Honest question...is there another player connected to this at all that is being held out this season? If not...what is different about KU's/SDS's position that would force KU to keep him out while others don't have to?

@focojayhawk

Miami is holding out one of their starters and arguably their best player, Duwen Huell, now Hernandez. Miami is struggling big time without him. He is being held out for his name being linked to Christian Dawkins in an email that included 18 others. The email stated Dawkins was going to pay Hernandez 500 a month in 2017, then going up to 1,000 in 2018.

The longer it goes on the more I think hes done here and with the NCAA announcing that they wouldnt yand out penalties til after this season, which includes SDS I suppose. At this point I just dont want anything vacated.

One can argue that the best thing for Silvio's future is to stay right here for the remainder of the year.

It shows some maturity to do it. He stays and learns solid fundamentals (which have proven to help other Jayhawks in the NBA). He risks less injury by not going full tilt in a foreign league which can get very sloppy. And... probably the best reason... he doesn't learn bad habits abroad that will just have to be fixed in the league.

Plus... who knows... maybe a diploma is in his future and basketball isn't. We've seen it be the case with many bright talents.

Dunno if y’all saw the article, but I’d like to see more coaches calling out the NCAA to complete their review sooner...

https://sports.yahoo.com/gonzaga-coach-mark-wants-ncaa-make-decisions-corruption-investigation-011257540.html ↗

@Gorilla72 Seems like Few implies his displeasure with programs that don’t do it the right way, and wants those folks sanctioned promptly. Can’t argue there.

@kjayhawks

My theory is along the same lines. The NCAA doesn't want to start digging in until the season ends because digging in right now is BAD for business.

Also, I think KU is appealing the NCAA's decision to hold off on any decisions including Silvio's eligibility. The lack of movement at this point seems to make sense that KU is appealing.

In our system of justice the presumption of innocence is and has always been the cornerstone; however, the NCAA operates differently because applicants are trying to “earn” a privilege in the same way that to earn the right to drive on public streets you have to prove that you are of certain age and that you can drive by taking written and driving tests. You earn that right by providing the information required and f you don’t, you do not earn the privilege. Information required includes academic transcripts with the minimum requirements and proof of amateur status which normally involves a sworn document.

When the NCAA receives credible information that contradicts that submitted by the applicant it has an implied obligation to investigate and request additional information in order to keep a level playing field for all members. At this time the onus transfers to the applicant to provide the requested information since the NCAA has no authority to legally compel the applicant to do it and until such time there is not much the NCAA can do but wait.

I understand the process might seem unfair to the student athlete but would it be better to waive requirements for a few elite individuals when the rest have to follow the well established rules? I think not.

If I were a betting man I would guess the process is stalled by lack of cooperation from Falmagne who could easily clear up any misunderstanding or provide the required information. In a perfect world, after a certain time the NCAA should be able to issue a report indicating what information is needed to complete the process but I will guess that it is not allowed to do so and so we continue to wait and especulate...

@BeddieKU23 - I, too, hope KU is appealing any delay in Silvio’s case. We all want him to play! But what makes you think KU is appealing the issue, besides HCBS comments?

@Gorilla72

Just my best guess/assumption really. The NCAA's announced they would not look into programs from the first trial (KU included) until after the season. I'm guessing that also means Silvio's case is on the backburner as well. If that's true I'd assume KU has appealed for a decision in his case because he's been held out. I have no idea if I'm right but it's my working theory at the moment.

@BeddieKU23

KU seems to be in the proverbial...between a rock and a hard place. It cannot play Silvio if there is any chance he would be declared ineligible and risk forfeiting games. On the other hand, KU is footing all the bills to educate, house and train Silvio with zero game time reward to date.

Contrary to the thread title, Silvio is doing well. All his expenses are being covered and he is getting a free education and access to the best trainers and top practice competition to hone his skill to the next level with zero game responsibility. I understand that he may or may not be guilty of the alleged violation but considering the situation, the deal he is getting at KU is not too shabby.

@JayHawkFanToo bet he's just thrilled

JayHawkFanToo said:

It cannot play Silvio if there is any chance he would be declared ineligible and risk forfeiting games.

Why not? Isn't Duke doing that with Zion? Didn't AZ do that with Ayton?

To me...either the ship takes everyone down with them including KU (which would be an NCAA nightmare because it would include Duke) because 'everyone recruits like this'...or it takes no one. Playing SDS then becomes a situation where he and KU get in trouble along with everyone else because they played an ineligible player last year and then chose to again this season...or no one gets in trouble and KU sat SDS for nothing.

I say roll the dice and play him. #FREESILVIO

@focojayhawk This has come up so many times.

There was no testimony, allowed or even just offered but rejected by the judge, stating that Zion or his family took money--only a disallowed hearsay statement allegedly made by Kurtis Townsend that the family was after a big payoff, and nothing about Duke at all. In contrast, there was direct testimony that Silvio's guardian was involved in (I believe) 3 cash transactions, 1 involving attending KU, that would implicate Silvio's eligibility.

Maybe more importantly, the NCAA apparently has notified KU of questions. Playing SDS would be direct and intentional disregard, providing cause for severe institutional sanctions instead of just a player ineligibility determination. Nothing in the trial was strong enough to do a comparable notice to Duke. So playing Zion can be done without directly flipping the bird at the NCAA.

@mayjay This goes to one approach I think KU could have taken. It would have required a different approach by Self. KU to the NCAA -- Look, if you want to burn us, fine. Do it. But we will burn the place down. We know where the bodies are buried. We know who got paid -- from Duke, UNC, AZ, everywhere. Let some assistant AD be the formal whistleblower. And burn it down. Or, alternatively, the NCAA can issue a statement acknowledging widespread corruption, dishing out nominal penalties, and implementing new, stricter standards.

Heck, Self could have been the white knight. The man who blew the whistle and forced change. But he is not aware .. (clearing my throat) .. of any .. you know .. third party inducements. The "I dare you to prove it" approach.

Do you think that Townsend doesn't know what Zion got? Sure he does. Self knows. KT was wanting to do what it took to get him.

I agree with you that the situation right now is different between KU and Duke. It is only that way, I believe, because of some weirdo code of silence that somehow exists. And we've discussed this before, where are the aggrieved, the upset fathers of players not getting paid, the girlfriend that knows too much, the player who now doesn't care, the tell all book deal? Puzzling.

But why should we sit and take it if we're penalized and others aren't? No way. Not now.

So play DeSousa. And say kiss my a**. I dare you.

Is it too much to ask the NCAA to give an automatic guarantee no university will face competitive sanctions from this case since they aren't going to do anything this year anyways? Meaning... no probation, no stripping titles and wins, no reductions in scholarships, etc... That type of punishment isn't good for anyone anyways and definitely bad for business! The punishment should be fines.

Does Kansas "look guilty" for not playing Silvio? If our administration didn't payout money (or arrange it)... what are we worried about? Play Silvio! We've already disciplined Silvio enough!

So much of this is public relations and public reputations. Aren't we already taking a hit on this? Over what, $2500? And who is the Maryland booster and what actually got paid back east? Boy.... what an investment Zion has been for Duke!

Not buying the "play him anyway" argument. That would be giving the NCAA something on which to base additional sanctions, including postseason bans, suspensions of coaches, and scholsrship limits even if they wouldn't have done so just based on the financial allegation. Silvio--or any other player--is not worth it.

"Knowing" something and having evidence are different. The most troubling "evidence" from that trial was from a wiretapped phone conversation by Kurtis Townsend. Were phones of Duke coaches tapped, or only phones of coaches from Adidas schools? I'd guess Nike schools have less to worry about. The FBI taps phone, but the NCAA does not. But the NCAA would have more information to use against Adidas schools, regardless of what they think they know.

KT knows what Zion got. Guaranteed.

@focojayhawk

What @mayjay said. There seems to be little or no doubt that at best all Silvio received was the money for the on-line classes which is a NCAA violation and would almost always result in a several games suspension (for Silvio) and at worst the alleged $60K which would likely result in major penalties (agaoin, for Silvio). It does not make a difference that KU was not the payer or did not know it contemporaneously, once it found out and knowingly and willingly played him then the program itself would open itself to penalties.

@drgnslayr

There is plenty of evidence that Silvio or someone on his behalf took at least the money for the on-line classes and likely the $60K as well, which is a NCAA violation, that KU is now aware; KU cannot play him until it finds out what the penalty will be. Knowingly playing Silvio being aware that NCAA rules were broken would subject the program itself to penalties.

International players are definitely coming to Gonzaga for free.

@BShark

I hear Spokane has nice white sandy beaches and lots of sunshine. Has to be the deciding factor right?? LOL

As of today all KU risks with Silvio are forfeiting the games he played in last year including the final four. Since KU pulled him as soon as they publicly found out I’m hopeful that doesn't happen. On the flip side if you play Silvio and you are forced to forfeit the games later does it taint the memory? Does it make you feel dirty, like a Kentucky fan? If KU won a championship and had to forfeit it would it be worth playing him? Even if KU wouldn’t have won without him? Glad the big guy has morals or we’d find out the consequences of playing Silvio.

@dylans

Last season when Silvio played he had been fully cleared by the NCAA and there were no allegations or indications of foul play at the time so, it would be unlikely that the NCAA would penalize KU. No that the story is out and KU is aware of the allegations, playing him would open the program to penalties if the allegation prove to be correct.

@JayHawkFanToo Ayton...just sayin’

@dylans

Arizona, Nike school. Just sayin'...

@mayjay @JayHawkFanToo @dylans...and all...thanks for your thoughts. As has been pointed out in every thread touching on the subject...it's just a ridiculous mess.

So does KU/SDS end up here while others don't simply because the Adidas trial went first and before the season while the Nike/UA teams get one more year to ride it out because their trials are after the season?

@focojayhawk I think there is a 30% chance the alphabet boys go after Nike schools. It would be 0% if the adidas trial had come back without convictions.

We're number 1...we're number 1...

@JayHawkFanToo What’s your precedent for asserting that it is unlikely that KU would be penalized if it did not know of the DeSousa payments? Memphis vacated a FF appearance and they didn’t know. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA beforehand too.

@HighEliteMajor

As you know, all the information related to an NCAA investigation is not made public. KU was penalized in 1988 allegedly for providing a prospect a plane ticket but we found out later there were a lot more serious issues that were not made public that brought KU to the brink of the dreaded “death penalty.”

According to the Chicago Tribune, ↗ and numerous other publications ”The Educational Testing Service's cancellation of the player's test score fit into the NCAA's "strict liability" category, and the infractions committee did not need to investigate further because it meant the player was ineligible before the season. The NCAA attempted to contact the player twice to attain proof he took the exam, according to the report, but he didn't respond.”

The ETS contacted Rose and Memphis before the end of the season pursuant its investigation and Memphis was aware of the potential issues and yet chose to play him anyway. Unlike KU, Memphis was aware of the issue while Rose was playing.

Keep in mind that it was not the only violation disclosed; Rose’s brother had also been provided transportation and accommodations to many of the games. There was a clear pattern of program personnel ignoring and/or bypassing issues.

KU, on the other hand, has been proactive in dealing with issues as shown with Alexander, Preston and now DeSousa, all high ranked prospects and did not play any of them once questions of eligibility surfaced. A complete different approach to that of Memphis.

@JayHawkFanToo Nice info, but should be Memphis?

@mayjay The Calipari link taints everything!

@mayjay

LOL...Freudian slip. Fixed now. :thumbsup_tone2:

@JayHawkFanToo Thank you. But my question is, what is the precedent or authority for you suggestion? Your suggestion that KU would be unlikely to be penalized if it didn't know in advance of the payments. What authority is there that it is "unlikely" we'll be penalized if we didn't know of the DeSousa payments before or while we were playing him?

@HighEliteMajor

Most of the players I can think including Jackson and Selby at KU that received illegal benefits without the school being aware, received the penalty themselves and the school was not penalized unless you consider sitting the player a penalty to the school. KU was not penalized for Alexander either because it acted proactively and sat him as soon as it found out of possible violations in the same way it did with Preston and now DeSousa. KU has been exemplary in this respect. Now, If we find out KU was aware of DeSousa potential ineligibility last season and played him anyway then all bets are off.

Memphis was aware of the allegation before the end of the season and played Rose anyway as did some other schools that were penalized.

East Coast Nike schools such as UNC and Duke are exempt from rules and penalties as we all know...all too well.

well take this for what it's worth -wouldn't hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I'm waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn't bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I’d rather root for the guys wearing white hats, not gray, definitely not black. Hurts to do the right thing by the rules here. Character building I suppose.

jayballer73 said:

well take this for what it's worth -wouldn't hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I'm waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn't bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Would you please post the link to the article or share the name of the "reliable source"

Per Silvio: No link. No article. No reliable source to identify. Just a poster offering his insight.

jayballer73 said:

well take this for what it's worth -wouldn't hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I'm waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn't bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Given the reputation of the poster on the Phog, I’d guess he was just getting attention for his favorite restaurant. “Click bait”, in other words. Nothing to it. 😣

jayhawkcsg said:

Per Silvio: No link. No article. No reliable source to identify. Just a poster offering his insight.

@jayhawkcsg: Thanks for the clarification:face_palm_tone2:

It's Neenyo, so you assume the info is bad.

bcjayhawk said:

jayballer73 said:

well take this for what it's worth -wouldn't hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I'm waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn't bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Would you please post the link to the article or share the name of the "reliable source"

I don't know how to post links. - - I just was reading this of the Phog it was just a poster threading sayin it came from a reliable source - I wouldn't get that worked up on it - -that's why I said take it for what it's worth.

You can look at it in the Phog - -it isn't a VIP so you can read it he just said I guess it was this guys very reliable source

Any reliable source would have to work in the NCAA compliance section and I don’t think any two of them agree what to do.

Gorilla72 said:

jayballer73 said:

well take this for what it's worth -wouldn't hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I'm waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn't bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Given the reputation of the poster on the Phog, I’d guess he was just getting attention for his favorite restaurant. “Click bait”, in other words. Nothing to it. 😣

Again THAT'S why I said take it for what it's worth. - -Hell I don't know who the poster is personally - -do you know him personally to know what he said is BS? - -that's what I thought. - -I know him/you know him through media - - but ya kind of odd that he is throwing in promos about restaurant while posting - -crazy group. - -takes all kinds lol - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

SILVIO DE SOUSA CLEARED TO PLAY!!!!!!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22078390/silvio-de-sousa-kansas-jayhawks-cleared-play-ncaa ↗

buffer 1

sorry guys, I couldn't help it. ;)

my wife told me I'm messed up for posting that.

Got me! 🤣🤣 😢😢

approxinfinity said:

my wife told me I'm messed up for posting that.

@approxinfinity: Your wife is correct and now your fellow Bucketeers all have a :broken_heart:

@approxinfinity

I'll let it slide as long as ku wins Tomm

THAT was not nice!! 😂😂

approxinfinity said:

my wife told me I'm messed up for posting that.

YA YOU ARE

@approxinfinity can’t forgive you!😡

Is it April 1?

@dylans nah it's December, a.k.a. Silvio de Sousa Eligibility Achievement month :)

I am being cautiously optimistic here, but another poster on the Phog, who has some pretty solid connections, has also stated that good news regarding SDS should be coming within the next week or so. Fingers crossed.

@approxinfinity http://m.kusports.com/weblogs/keegan-lunch-break/2018/jan/10/time-for-ncaa-to-stand-up-and-clear-silv/?templates=mobile ↗

1JayhawkLifer said:

I am being cautiously optimistic here, but another poster on the Phog, who has some pretty solid connections, has also stated that good news regarding SDS should be coming within the next week or so. Fingers crossed.

:thumbsup_tone2:

OSUGem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neenyo.

This thing abut Silvio is starting to gain Uncle mo - -some others have said now that they also have been hearing from around that there POSSIBLY is some truth to this.

Another poster said he had been told quite possibly by Christmas - -and NO they ARE NOT talking about Doke.

Holy crap I( don't know for sure. - - I will say found it just kind of curious -that out of the blue clear sky - -that Coach Self just totally off the wall came out and mentioned would be nice if Sivio was here playing. - The topic was no where touching anything about Silvio and just by pure happen stance - -where did the hell did that come from?

Starting to see a lot more talk - -I thinking something has leaked -You tell me - -Why would Coach just bring Silvio's name up in the post game out of the clear blue - -going right in stride with things starting to stir - -and then Silvio Tweet - - - interesting tweet at that .- - Who know's

My Deal has always been if they can only prove he got $2200 for online classes and has shown he has paid it back, he should have sat out enough games either last season or by missing these next 2 before Xmas, especially if look at a similar situation as the Selby one.

I'm curious how Kansas will be treated by the NCAA on this one after the NCAA supported our modernized compliance department to the level of making it a model for other universities.

The problem isn't Silvo. The problem is the agents, shoe companies, and the NCAA. Here you have kids that have nothing. No real parents to guide them. NO pot to piss in. Yet all they have is the ability to play the game of basketball. Yet every time they are the ones that pay the price. Coaches still get paid, Agents still get paid, and the NCAA still gets paid. Yet the kids get destroyed and get cheated out of a future of money and a education. We fans demand kids like Silvio to have this uncanny of heroism and justice. Yet we forget where they come from. Where just surviving is the main course. Some of you need to check your righteous mindsets. While you grew up in a home with two parents and played sports year round. Some kids are just happy to get home in one piece.

Who should be punished here? Really? Coaches, Agents, Shoe Companies, and yes the NCAA.

Free Silvio. Let the kid play.

DoubleDD said:

The problem isn't Silvo. The problem is the agents, shoe companies, and the NCAA. Here you have kids that have nothing. No real parents to guide them. NO pot to piss in. Yet all they have is the ability to play the game of basketball. Yet every time they are the ones that pay the price. Coaches still get paid, Agents still get paid, and the NCAA still gets paid. Yet the kids get destroyed and get cheated out of a future of money and a education. We fans demand kids like Silvio to have this uncanny of heroism and justice. Yet we forget where they come from. Where just surviving is the main course. Some of you need to check your righteous mindsets. While you grew up in a home with two parents and played sports year round. Some kids are just happy to get home in one piece.

Who should be punished here? Really? Coaches, Agents, Shoe Companies, and yes the NCAA.

Free Silvio. Let the kid play.

@DoubleDD: AMEN:heavy_exclamation_mark: :100:

@DoubleDD

Yes and no. I would say that in most cases, the prospect himself is generally aware of what is being done on his behalf; perhaps the foreign prospects are less aware but not necessarily fully in the dark.

We know that Preston knew full well what was going on and actively participated in the coverup and he also directly benefited from the money paid by Adidas, which turned out to be one of the reasons why he and family were caught, and his career is now in serious jeopardy if not finished.

All top prospects know each other well and all share experiences, particularly in the AAU circuit, and it is foolish to believe they do not talk about what is going on and how much they are worth to programs; all they have to do is get on the Internet and all the information is readily available for all to see. We have to stop assuming that the kids are always innocent victims and admit that in most cases are willing participants.

Yeah, everyone's at fault here, including the kid and his parents. These kids aren't dumb, nor are their parents. They know what's going on, Adidas knows what's going on, and Kansas knows what's going on. Everyone's at fault for breaking the NCAA rules. Doesn't mean those rules are right, but even if they aren't, it doesn't mean people have a right to break them.

@JayHawkFanToo and @chriz

The key word here is kids. I'm afraid you trying to compare your upbringing with those of these young superstars. As someone that has grown up in the ghetto, and have seen what goes on. I don't blame any of these kids for getting what they can. You don't put a full course meal in front of a staving person and say you can't have it then walk away. That is the problem. If the Coaches, Agents, Shoe Companies, and yes even the NCAA really cared about these kids they would fix the system. Until then I promise you some young superstar starved for a normal life with a roof over their head and food in the fridge will break the rules/take the money.

DoubleDD said:

@JayHawkFanToo and @chriz

The key word here is kids. I'm afraid you trying to compare your upbringing with those of these young superstars. As someone that has grown up in the ghetto, and have seen what goes on. I don't blame any of these kids for getting what they can. You don't put a full course meal in front of a staving person and say you can't have it then walk away. That is the problem. If the Coaches, Agents, Shoe Companies, and yes even the NCAA really cared about these kids they would fix the system. Until then I promise you some young superstar starved for a normal life with a roof over their head and food in the fridge will break the rules/take the money.

I strongly disagree with you because generalizations are dangerous and in this case, invalid. You are assuming that only poor people that grew up on the ghetto break the law and should be given a pass, both assumptions are incorrect...in my opinion. Respect for rules, regulations and the law should not be and it is not dependent on social or economical standing, it just shows the moral compass of individuals. Many of the prospects that broke the law did not grow up in the ghetto or came from extremely disadvantage backgrounds and most that grew up under those circumstances do not break rules, regulation or the law.

Look at some KU players. Devonte's mother had him when she was 14 and yet they managed to do things right under extreme circumstances. Preston, on the other hand, did not grow up in the ghetto or had extreme financial hardship and yet he and his family knowingly and willfully broke all kinds of rules and regulation because of greed.

BTW, you really don't know what my upbringing was.

JayHawkFanToo said:

DoubleDD said:

@JayHawkFanToo and @chriz

The key word here is kids. I'm afraid you trying to compare your upbringing with those of these young superstars. As someone that has grown up in the ghetto, and have seen what goes on. I don't blame any of these kids for getting what they can. You don't put a full course meal in front of a staving person and say you can't have it then walk away. That is the problem. If the Coaches, Agents, Shoe Companies, and yes even the NCAA really cared about these kids they would fix the system. Until then I promise you some young superstar starved for a normal life with a roof over their head and food in the fridge will break the rules/take the money.

I strongly disagree with you because generalizations are dangerous and in this case, invalid. You are assuming that only poor people that grew up on the ghetto break the law and should be given a pass, both assumptions are incorrect...in my opinion. Respect for rules, regulations and the law should not be and it is not dependent on social or economical standing, it just shows the moral compass of individuals. Many of the prospects that broke the law did not grow up in the ghetto or came from extremely disadvantage backgrounds and most that grew up under those circumstances do not break rules, regulation or the law.

Look at some KU players. Devonte's mother had him when she was 14 and yet they managed to do things right under extreme circumstances. Preston, on the other hand, did not grow up in the ghetto or had extreme financial hardship and yet he and his family knowingly and willfully broke all kinds of rules and regulation because of greed.

BTW, you really don't know what my upbringing was.

You can disagree all you want too. Was your upbringing like when you called the cops after dark they didn't show up? Mine was. I don't put any of the blame at the feet of these kids. They are faced with crazy skills, yet they look around at their mother and siblings suffering. With no help coming but a government check.

Then you place a wad of cash in front of them and not expect them to not bight? The NBA is a pipe dream. So few make it. It's just a fact. In the places most of these kids come from you take what you can get. Period. The bigger picture is a pipe dream.

Also @JayHawkFanToo why is it so wrong? As you ride your noble horse. When coaches, agents, Shoe companies, and yes even the NCAA created a environment it's so easy to take the money? Answer me that one?

It appears from your responses you put the blame at the foot of the kids. Even saying a lack of a moral values is the problem?

So when your broke, watching your siblings and mom starve?These kids are supposed to have a righteous mind, with so many offering promises and large bank accounts. I guess your saying they should kick the their family to the curb and put the schools they are attending first?

Wow OK?

@DoubleDD

Again, you have no clue what my upbringing is and yet you feel entitled to use it to justify something that is indefensible.

What you are saying is that because someone is disadvantage he is entitled to break the rules with no consequences and if there is something there for the taking, even when it is wrong, disadvantaged people are entitled to take it anyway....this is flawed logic that does not pass the test of reasonableness and it would not stand in any court of law either. Do you not see that when kids and/or families break the rules they place the program that gave them a full ride in jeopardy? What if their actions cause the program to get penalties that result in loss of scholarships that directly affect other athletes? How about them?

There is no need to ride any moral high horse, moral principles are just that and they are not dependent on class, social or financial status, either you have them or you don’t. Surprised and disappointed you cannot see the difference.

@JayHawkFanToo

I'm not sure why you think I'm interested in how you grew up? News flash I'm really not. Haven't gave it one thought. You see one can have a haughty spirit no matter what side of the rail road tracks you come from.

Sorry stake me to the cross and burn me? I just don't agree with you and some others on blaming these kids. Kids are a product of their up brining, their environment. These kids grew up with nothing, yet we expect them to keep this moral compass you speak of. No my friend it's about getting paid, cashing in while you can.

@DoubleDD Let me guess .. it’s always someone else’s fault, right?

DoubleDD said:

@JayHawkFanToo

I'm not sure why you think I'm interested in how you grew up? News flash I'm really not. Haven't gave it one thought. You see one can have a haughty spirit no matter what side of the rail road tracks you come from.

Obviously you are because you keep referring to my upbringing without having a clue how or where I grew up.

Sorry stake me to the cross and burn me? I just don't agree with you and some others on blaming these kids. Kids are a product of their up brining, their environment. These kids grew up with nothing, yet we expect them to keep this moral compass you speak of. No my friend it's about getting paid, cashing in while you can.

So, they should get paid and cash in while they can without regard for rules, regulations or the law or the hardship they create for others in the process? That is the textbook definition of lawlessness.

Based on your comments I take it you believe we should allow all the underprivileged people from Central America, and the rest of the world for that matter, that come in illegally, willingly and knowingly violating our laws to stay and get benefits even American don’t get? After all the US is dangling in front of them and why should they not just break the law and help themselves while they can?

@JayHawkFanToo whoa!

We may not argue Silvio much right now for obvious reasons. I don't understand why a sleazy desperate crooked shoe whore lawyer was able to impact a kid's college career. He was desperate to clear his client and created mud. He then chose to sling that mud hoping to clear his clients. His mud slinging didn't work and his client/s was/were still found guilty. But why does Silvio seem to be a real "victim" in this horrid affair? Regardless of what happens, Silvio did absolutely nothing wrong.

So if Silvio was mentioned as potentially and allegedly taking money some how, and Zion Williamson was also personally mentioned, not a guardian or parent, as requesting payment, yet he plays at Puke as if nothing was ever mentioned. Of course K plays it all down and claims they completed a thorough check on the allegations. Zion was "cleared" by Puke to play. But yet he plays? Am I the only one that sees anything wrong with this twisted picture? And the Puke fans have the audacity to claim that KU pays players? They even think KU will vacate wins? KU is the only program that threatens Puke. If KU is brought down, Puke becomes the face of college basketball.

Lastly, these stupid situations always end poorly and we all know it. I don't think it matters if this $2500 payment is true or not, Silvio and KU will have yet another black eye, while other programs seem to be getting away with murder. I haven't heard a word about Sean Miller and Ayton's $100,000 payment. Emerts has said none of the schools in this mess will be punished. I don't get it. Self admitting blame? Does he know something that will come out? Yet K plays Zion.

You people supporting Silvio sitting are a little ridiculous. We are either penalized as it stands, or we are wasting a perfectly eligible recruit. L'ville is the only other program that has suffered. KU has already been punished and there is no wrong doing. We are tarnished and I will be pleasantly surprised if Hurt picks KU. These coaches work these kids and use this crap. I can only imagine what Wright said to JRE. I was shocked when JRE chose Nova. So, KU is already paying a price and the other programs are circling the KU recruits. No telling where Hurt will end. I hope KU. I was hoping that having Self as a U17 coach helped him get to know the real Self, not the nasty backstabbing allegations of other coaches. Apparently Calipari thinks he has a shot at Hurt.

https://247sports.com/college/kentucky/Article/Kentucky-basketball-recruiting-John-Calipari-checks-out-5-star-Matthew-Hurt-126594503/ ↗

Not one 2019 4 or 5 star commitment in ESPN's top 100, NOT ONE

Stanley - great get if Grimes lives up to NBA hype, but right now Grimes is looking a little like Selden and may be around at least another year.
42% UCLA (Warm with Oregon and UCLA) If he has two West Coast schools, my guess is they are #1 and #2. KU is a distant #3.

Hurt - Only legit possibility.
Crystal Ball 75% KU...Looks like Ol' Roy is working him too. I'm really glad Roy honored his UNC recruiting commitment, but now he recruits the hell out of KU recruits.

Auchiuwa
62% UCONN

Daniels - KU not even on the board with this kid!

Nnaji
25% tie KU, UNC, and UK (Jerry Meyer has him at UNC 79%)

Edwards
FSU 80% (Wiggins flashbacks)

@truehawk93

In my opinion it's not just the $2500 that's holding Silvio out. KU as a program is trying to protect its product in every sense of the word. If holding out Silvio saves itself from a future punishment that's the price that has to be paid right now. And while I agree with you on a lot of your post I don't think KU's position ever changes with situations like this.

@truehawk93 Reading your first paragraph, I'm curious, where do you get your pipeline to the facts?

@HighEliteMajor The second paragraph is also completely wrong.

HighEliteMajor said:

@DoubleDD Let me guess .. it’s always someone else’s fault, right?

Well come on @HighEliteMajor even you have to admit that the system in place opens the door for these kids to take the money. We can all sit and act like Oh these kids know better, and bury our heads in the sand and deny that special benefits aren't already in place.

Funny that all these Kids that play for Nike funded AAU teams and tournaments always sign with Nike Schools? Ummm Interesting.

All I'm saying is how can you blame these kids when the NCAA turns a blind eye and everybody gets paid but the kid?

No NBA talent scout ever said we have to draft this kid because they played at KU. Folks Schools don't make these kids. These kids make the school.

For the love of God @HighEliteMajor some of these kids are being recruited before they're even in high school. Yet these kids coming from torn families and poor communities are supposed to have this innate moral compass? When society has already crapped on them? Don't believe take a drive away from the Shawnee, and Olathe schools and visit some schools down in the poor communities and tell me if American kids of different races and income equality are getting a fair shake?

JayHawkFanToo said:

DoubleDD said:

@JayHawkFanToo

I'm not sure why you think I'm interested in how you grew up? News flash I'm really not. Haven't gave it one thought. You see one can have a haughty spirit no matter what side of the rail road tracks you come from.

Obviously you are because you keep referring to my upbringing without having a clue how or where I grew up.

Sorry stake me to the cross and burn me? I just don't agree with you and some others on blaming these kids. Kids are a product of their up brining, their environment. These kids grew up with nothing, yet we expect them to keep this moral compass you speak of. No my friend it's about getting paid, cashing in while you can.

So, they should get paid and cash in while they can without regard for rules, regulations or the law or the hardship they create for others in the process? That is the textbook definition of lawlessness.

Based on your comments I take it you believe we should allow all the underprivileged people from Central America, and the rest of the world for that matter, that come in illegally, willingly and knowingly violating our laws to stay and get benefits even American don’t get? After all the US is dangling in front of them and why should they not just break the law and help themselves while they can?

It appears I have riled you to a point of madness. Maybe it's best we agree to disagree.

You can blame the Kid, and I'll blame the system.

Have a nice day.

@DoubleDD Your mindset is what leads to failure. In all aspects of life. "I'll blame the system", is what you say. And you start from this false premise that life, or anything related to life, is fair. It isn't it; can't be. So you start with a strawman argument.

See, it's your perspective. Why is it fair that someone that "all they can do is play basketball", can make millions per year? Why is it fair that I wasn't born with that talent? Why is it fair that the person who can only play basketball gets a life of privilege, money, and freedom from real work? Purely through genetics?

"Fair" isn't the word. "Opportunity" is the word. Everyone in America has the ability to use their particular talents to achieve. Nothing is stopping them. Are there barriers for everyone? Yes. Are the barriers different for everyone in some way? Yes.

In America, it's the opportunity to achieve. It's not a guarantee of success. There will be winners and losers.

But your whining about the "system" is demonstrative of a point of view that leads down the path of failure. Blame everyone but yourself for failure. Blame the "system."

Yet, in your diatribe, you ignore the obvious. It's right there in front of your face -- it is the Education that is provided through the college experience, through the scholarship, that will lift many of these kids for a lifetime.

But continue on .. it's easier to blame, than to look in the mirror. Everyone can do it? It's so unfair that I wasn't blessed with talent to play a game for living.

@BeddieKU23 Unfortunately, I hate to agree with you that position will never change.

@HighEliteMajor

Lmao. Oh excuse me great wise one. I'm fully aware one has to make their own choices and be responsible for such choices. Yet if you can't or don't want to understand the concept of an environment and it's a effect on children then you are the one that is being foolish. If you take a child and give them all the tools to be successful. Odds say the child will be successful in some form. Yet if you take a child and tell them they can't make it on their own. Odds say that child will become dependent on some form of a handout. Oh yes there are always those exceptions to the norm, Yet they are hardly reality.

How about we stay away from the personal barbs and have a honest debate?

I mean how do some of these kids have parents or leadership over their lives called Handlers? In the case of Silvio, he has a handler that received money? Right? Sounds fishy to me from the get go. Does it not you? So what deal did Silvio make with his handler? Or who made this deal so that Silvio could have a handler? Yet somehow in all this Silvio is supposed to know, as you say?

@HighEliteMajor 1) I'm pissed, 2) because of 1, emotional, and 3) I hope you're seeing my grand jury courtroom circus and raising me cold hard facts. And 4) This is my point. It doesn't matter what the "facts" are @HighEliteMajor, KU has suffered unfairly, unjustly, and utterly unnecessarily at the expense of a desperate lawyer that needed to pull out all the stops for his client/s.

Please clarify your statement about having the facts. I hope its in the sense that you are wholly and completely convinced the so-called "grand jury" was a sham and there were NO FACTS presented, only pure allegations. If so, I have no facts, but you and I both know people don't care about facts. They see smoke and there's fire.

Let me further clarify my point about Silvio. Regardless of your position in the whole circus, Silvio did not take or I believe did not take any money. I think the kid just wanted to play ball. Any payment was for Maryland, not KU. I don't think there are any foundations to the allegations about even Townsend's comments getting a kid at all costs to KU. I think that whole transcript was taken way out of context. In fact, the judge did not even allow the wire taps. So, no one really knows anything.

Lastly, Zion Williamson was clearly mentioned making a request for payment. KU does not make a payment and he plays at Puke. I guess not all programs apply a "no play" until further evidence is presented or the player is cleared. If this were the case, then all players mentioned in an investigation would sit per their program's direction. Yet again, Zion plays as if nothing was ever said about payment. But you want facts, great request. Let's get all the facts, but until then, all players are required to sit. Yet, Emmerts says no program will be punished.

What facts do you want? Until then, Silvio sits and that's your fact, and according to Emmerts, for no reason. But this is KU's practice, sit a kid until proven guilty. It also makes KU look even more guilty by sitting him. Then when the "facts" come out, it looks even worse. If there were payments, we're screwed. If there were no payments, then we are screwed even worse, because then we sit him for NO reason whatsoever. If KU and Self are sitting him, the KU lawyers are very concerned? Maybe Billy's case being so recent has KU a little edgy?

Dang it...I didn't mean to be so terribly verbose in my response. Most of it is rinse and repeat.

Merry Christmas !

@Bosthawk Thank you, nephew Freddie!

Anyone see this today by Sam Mellinger?

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article223798645.html ↗

@Gorilla72 I just read that and found it odd that nobody has mentioned that his "source" is confident he will be cleared. I haven't heard it mentioned on the radio, twitter, or anywhere.

Also, his article is spot on. It is a joke at this point that he has not been cleared to play or ruled ineligible.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article223798645.html ↗

Fairly recent and objective article that most know or even agree, but makes the best sense because Silvio is being punished due to a bunch of stupid adults. IF bball politics are at play, the NCAA itself should be investigated by the FBI.

When will the schools turn this ridiculous institution upside down and call them out by investigating their less than lawful practices. THIS IS A JOKE and makes a mockery of the game, student athletes, and college sports in general.

By the way, Zion Williamson is still playing, cleared of all allegations of wrong doing and being lauded as the #1 NBA draft pick in the country right now. I guess when you're Puke, you get special hall passes when your name is brought up in a GRAND JURY of requesting payment. Rat Face will make sure he doesn't face his nightmare ever again in college bball, Silvio DeSousa.

My prayer is that Puke is or gets investigated and Wiiliamson is guilty of pay for play. Also, they will have to vacate their season for not taking precautions or "respecting" the allegations against Williamson. Rat Face said he was cleared? Please. He also said the whole shoe crap was a "blip." He then realized how he just belittled the investigation, and clarified his statement.

But apparently Puke and K are way above the "rules."

@truehawk93 "when your name is brought up in a GRAND JURY of requesting payment"

?????

@truehawk93 Please note from Mellinger's rehash that he makes a wild assumption -- that SDS did not know of the payment. It's like saying Self didn't know. All involved try to protect the star. It's just speculation that SDS supposedly didn't know. I personally think it's likely that he did know.

Aside from that, don't buy this narrative. And don't focus your anger elsewhere (at Duke). Think of this logically.

First, the NCAA isn't perfect. Don't expect that. It never will be.

The NCAA has rules. The NCAA is a creation of the colleges. The NCAA serves the colleges. The colleges own the product. The colleges own the contracts. The colleges own the stadiums and arenas. The colleges own the intellectual property. All of this funnels through the NCAA. All of this makes a lot of money. It is a business that supports a large number of other endeavors at the colleges.

The athlete has all of the power here. All the athletes has to do is say "no." Say "no", I don't want to participate in this. If that happens, then the dynamic changes. Control changes.

As with most folks involved in a choice, the individual will weigh the positives and negatives. And even with all the stuff folks say about the NCAA, it's amazing the choice these individuals make. Actually, it's a no brainer. The players (all sports) gain immensely and disproportionately - from education, to experience, to connections, to a venue to showcase their talents. A potential lifetime of value. No other avenue provides such a benefit. None.

"Puke" and the NCAA aren't your enemy. The natural impulse to react on something that feels unfair is the enemy.

I know we think differently on this. I understand how this makes you feel. Seeing SDS on the bench makes me mad too. But understanding that the NCAA isn't perfect, and that SDS is sitting there by choice, is a good starting point for this analysis.

@HighEliteMajor

Let's say for a second SDS does know of the payment. A payment that helped him fulfill his high school requirements so that he could enroll in college and play basketball asap. Does that constitute a 13 game suspension?

I believe it's more then the payment or the idea of trying to figure did he or did he not know. His guardian, as we have discussed before could have likely cleared this all up but he could also be a dirtbag that doesnt want his other dirty laundry coming to light. Whatever the case SDS sits and maybe nobody even Self knows why at this point.

Did DeSousa's guardian return the money he got from Under Armour? If not, then we're talking total benefits of over $60,000 which means DeSousa won't play college ball again anywhere.

In the NCAA's eyes, it's not simply the $2,500 for the online class, it's also the money reportedly given to persuade DeSousa to go to Maryland as well. I'm not going to hold my breath on DeSousa ever being officially cleared to play.

Well, this is all fun to discuss, but it seems clear to me that Silvio is NOT playing because neither him nor his camp (handler) are speaking to the NCAA.
If they were or have, the NCAA would have come out and clearly stated that Silvio accepted cash and would be suspended forever, or for a certain amount of games.
I know crap, and i'm pissed like the rest of you, so we'll see. Fingers crossed we'll see him this year.

@Texas-Hawk-10

True.... and if that is the case, who thinks that $60k was just banked and available for return. So, potentially, we can see the possibility of commiting a "crime" to fix a past crime. Where would the $60k come from to repay the "debt?"

I don't see Silvio becoming eligible unless his people become proactive to make this situation better... and that means... stepping up and fixing his "loans." That might open the door for the NCAA to make a quick exception to their earlier comment about addressing this after the season.

@drgnslayr I have read that the NCAA allows loans to pay the "fines" for receiving impermissible benefits, but those were far less than 60 large. Also, I believe it is not usually repayments to the provider--often they have payments to a local charity or somerhing.

Loans from?

@Crimsonorblue22 The school can arrange them directly with the student. The NCAA knows the kids don't have the cash, but now they have some stipend money. Verification is pretty strict, and if the student defaults, the school can't do it again with anyone for 4 years. Defaulting means paid off by the time set in the plan. Has to be completed by the end of the kid's eligibility. I don't know whether that changes based on theoretical 4 yr eligibility or if is required to be done within a single year.

http://www.ncaa.org/student-athlete-repayment-plan ↗

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Repayment%20Agreement%20TEMPLATE.pdf ↗

@mayjay so, unless they are not even looking at his case, this does not look good. He's certainly sat long enough to cover the 2500, and we know he could have gotten a loan. Wonder why he doesn't leave? I do think he values the education.

@Crimsonorblue22 He probably is eating up what the coaches can teach him, too. I suspect they will finish this in time to rule him eligible for next year, and if there is a repayment plan, he will have all next year to do it. I think he would come back and get the benefit of competition before going pro, but I am no doubt in a small minority.

He is still on scholarship, right?

@mayjay with his size and athleticism I don't think he needs to come back. If he had a guard's body, then yes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-usc-assistant-coach-tony-bland-pleads-guilty-bribery-college-hoops-corruption-case-230800475.html ↗

While we don't know if SDS knew .. I think we can piece this together. As @BeddieKU23 and @Crimsonorblue22 suggest, there is likely more to this.

But one possibility is that the FBI's involvement has impacted how the NCAA handles certain situations. A $2500 issue was handled one way yesterday, and another way today. It does seem that the SDS issue goes deeper than that.

@mayjay Perhaps he learned from Billy Preston's experiment? Staying on the bench at KU might be the better long term path.

jayhawkcsg said:

Well, this is all fun to discuss, but it seems clear to me that Silvio is NOT playing because neither him nor his camp (handler) are speaking to the NCAA.
If they were or have, the NCAA would have come out and clearly stated that Silvio accepted cash and would be suspended forever, or for a certain amount of games.
I know crap, and i'm pissed like the rest of you, so we'll see. Fingers crossed we'll see him this year.

The NCAA can play out this eligibility issue as long as they want. If both of them did cooperate already it doesn't mean the NCAA will make a ruling. Enough time has passed now that either they are still not ready to give an answer or KU has received an answer and they are appealing. The lack of information out there leads me to believe that everything is still being kept private until a final ruling.

Miami's player that was also being held out just had his appeal denied yesterday. Different circumstances to Silvio but KU should be prepared for a similar fate.

@HighEliteMajor

I would agree that the FBI probably has an impact on this.

IF this was just about the $2500 I would like to think a ruling would have been made.

But what if this about the shadow of doubt surrounding the 60k Maryland Booster and the 20k payback to the guardian or the alleged pro contract in Spain. That would give the NCAA plenty of reason to pump the breaks.

What if the NCAA is waiting until the spring and the other trials to try and figure out if KU assisted in this class payment to get him enrolled early?

@BeddieKU23 the Spain contract was approved, right?

Play Silvio once Spring classes start.

Surely sitting out for the fall semester is enough punishment for whatever. This is ridiculous.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 the Spain contract was approved, right?

What do you mean by approved. I've yet to see any news clearing this issue up. Did he actually sign it or they couldn't conclude whether he signed it or not?

I thought he sat out in the beginning til they figured that out?

This is not simply $2,500. If was just a matter of the $2,500 for the online class, Silvio wouldn't have missed a minute this year because that money would've already been paid back. Silvio's eligibility also involves the $60,000 Under Armour paid to get him to Maryland. I have no reason to doubt the testimony of a man who pled guilty to his charges and said that he was in the process of giving Silvio's guardian another $60,000 to repay Under Armour, but couldn't do so because of the announcement of the investigation. Silvio is never going to be cleared because the money tied to his camp is a minimum of $62,500 in impermissible benefits based on my understanding of this.

The next time anyone see Silvio DeSousa play a meaningful minute of basketball, he will be wearing a professional uniform.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Gassnola only agreed to pay SDS's guardian 20k for the UA 60k mess they got themselves into. Gassnola also testified he never gave his guardian the cash.

The 60k is seperate from the 20. As far as we know neither the 60k or 20k have been verified to have happened. Gassnola himself said he never did give him the 20. The cloud over all these alleged events is probably delaying any decision but who knows

BeddieKU23 said:

@HighEliteMajor

I would agree that the FBI probably has an impact on this.

IF this was just about the $2500 I would like to think a ruling would have been made.

But what if this about the shadow of doubt surrounding the 60k Maryland Booster and the 20k payback to the guardian or the alleged pro contract in Spain. That would give the NCAA plenty of reason to pump the breaks.

What if the NCAA is waiting until the spring and the other trials to try and figure out if KU assisted in this class payment to get him enrolled early?

Agreed .. this is likely deeper. We just don't get the flow of info.

I still think SDS waiting all season to see if he's cleared for next year is better than bolting. If he can come back, play well, it could be the best career move.

Unlike other perspectives, I don't fault the NCAA here for their handling of this. Heck, they could be investigating KU and Self more directly here. Any investigator worth his salt would be.

@BeddieKU23 Under Armour paid Silvio DeSousa's guardian $60,000 before Silvio played college ball. Gassnola had zero reason to make up the $60,000 from Under Armour because he had already plead guilty. He wasn't saving himself during his testimony, he was ratting everyone else out to reduce his punishment for cooperating with the feds.

The issue with Silvio's eligibility is at least $62,500 in impermissible benefits. Just because that $60,000 wasn't from KU or to influence Silvio to KU doesn't mean the NCAA is going to ignore that $60,000 and pretend like it didn't happen.

Silvio's college career is done.

@Texas-Hawk-10

So you know for a fact he got the money, the 60k? Where you finding that

@HighEliteMajor

I hope he does stick around and can play next year. However two recent cases involving Brian Bowen and Hernandez of Miami show the NCAA is not budging on eligibility even after missing a season. Bowen pursued professional avenues after being told he'd miss multiple seasons. Hernandez will miss at least this season and I cant imagine he's coming back next year as well. I think if we continue to see this drag on, Silvio will have pressure to look for something else after the season and who can blame him. He could certainly use a full season to impress and improve his game and stock but he may not be in the position to gamble like that. Maybe he likes college and wants his education. I agree the lack of flow of info is concerning to ever seeing him suit up this season

@BeddieKU23 I know a person who has already pled guilty to the charges against him has very little reason to lie about what he's already pled guilty to.
He's not trying to save his own ass or throw others under the bus like the other two were.

Based on the circumstances, I have very little reason to doubt Gassnola's testimony regarding that money so I'd put it at 95% that Silvio's guardian got that 60k from Under Armour.

IF (!) the allegations are even being investigated, I’d bet the guardian isn’t cooperating. Shades of Billy Preston’s mom...

BeddieKU23 said:

@HighEliteMajor

I hope he does stick around and can play next year. However two recent cases involving Brian Bowen and Hernandez of Miami show the NCAA is not budging on eligibility even after missing a season. Bowen pursued professional avenues after being told he'd miss multiple seasons. Hernandez will miss at least this season and I cant imagine he's coming back next year as well. I think if we continue to see this drag on, Silvio will have pressure to look for something else after the season and who can blame him. He could certainly use a full season to impress and improve his game and stock but he may not be in the position to gamble like that. Maybe he likes college and wants his education. I agree the lack of flow of info is concerning to ever seeing him suit up this season

Man I just really don't know to think on Silvio's situation. - -I just can't figure WHY if Silvio is ineligible or if he pretty well knew - -after missing a half year last year while waiting a ruling to be eligible - WHY would he stick around so far ALL of this season if he thought he wasn't going to be eligible . WHY ? 0 0there HAS to be something we are not hearing as far as positive news on Silvio.

I t just doesn't make any sense for him to sit and continue to wait if he truly thought he WASN'T going to be - -I mean if he war going to be ruled eligible -then after him not being able to play half the year last year and now this - -If they screw around and he sits all year - -whether he is eligible or not - -I think for sure he will Still be gone after having to sit all year - there is going to be a time where he just says SCREW THIS and move on with his life. - I just feel/think there just has to be something positive for Silvio that isn't being made public - -it's not of IF - -but a matter of When.. - -Yet like I say the longer this crap lingers on - -the less chance he will be here eligible OR not eligible. - -If it turns out they come down and say he has been cleared but nothing till the end of the year - - I am going to be so fricken hot. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

One important thing to remember is that the NCAA has not made us do anything with SDS. KU is choosing to sit SDS out of caution. It’s our choice. And that choice is made by folks with more info. The same ones that say Preston. And we now know some of that story.

@HighEliteMajor I would agree with most of your NCAA facts in theory. But as you stated we all know your facts are never really true at this point.

You also make a huge assumption that SDS "knew." Maybe so, but the kid is from another country. He's not like a Ball kid or say Zion Williamson? I disagree totally, completely, and utterly with your argument that he knew. IF, IF, IF the guardian did anything which is plausible, but hasn't been proven yet, SDS had no idea what was going on during the transaction. Those kids from foreign countries have no idea how corrupt and nasty these shoe companies can be in America. You''re assuming guilt. You put SDS on trial, not the shoe companies. ADIDAS was the defendant, not SDS or even KU. But somehow, SDS and KU is guilty.

What was SDS going to do? Report the shoe companies and his guardian as corrupt snakes? It's his guardian, which to a foreign national is much like a parent. Come on HEM, you're being way too harsh. Also, didn't SDS and his guardian in fact inadvertently report it by leaving Maryland and going to KU? Huge risks? If there was any wrong doing, why would KU risk "paying back" Under Armor? If KU in fact paid the Maryland debt, then it is KU, not SDS. If it is KU, we have a whole different problem.

But here's another horrible reality. If SDS didn't opt for KU, who would've known that SDS was in fact paid to attend Maryland by Under Armor? Please answer me that HEM. If KU is involved in providing payment, I'm horribly ashamed and will be completely embarrassed. But Emmerts has already said NO PROGRAM MENTIONED IN THE GRAND JURY WILL BE PUNISHED. But hell, let's punish the kid. He should be playing right now until they find something. You say the NCAA is "for" the college athlete, yet SDS sits. While Zion Wiliamson's name was brought up in the Grand Jury as demanding payment and still plays at PUKE, who is having arguably the best season of any team. Then Rat Face says the Puke lawyers and legal has cleared Williamson of any wrong doing? Really? The NCAA took their word? Yet Self sits SDS? Do you see the problem here HEM? I hope so, because I cant make it much clearer. You seem to be defending a "Not so Perfect Institution" who, in your words, will never be so. SO, you just destroyed your comment by assuming this is being handled by an "imperfect" system, yet KU is getting SCREWED by this "imperfect" institution. Why? Why is KU the only program getting the screws HEM? L'ville is the only other program and maybe St John that have paid a price. What about Zona? That went away and got swept under the rug. Also, Ayton finished out the year and played, UNBELIEVABLE. No consequences at all.

I don't think anyone is trying to hide anything right now. But what I argue is simply a fair and thorough investigation of all programs, maybe the top 10-15 programs. You say the NCAA will never be perfect, but yet there is so much politics with other programs because of $$$$$$$$ that programs like Puke get passes everytime. You don't get the #1 recruiting class 5-6 virtually consecutively years without something shady. By the way, guess who has the #1 incoming 2019 class? PUKE. Come on HEM open your eyes, you're a smart bball fan. Stop trying to protect the game and symptoms of corruption and start addressing the real problem. The game is fine. It's the programs and big companies that need punished, not the players.

@Crimsonorblue22 Exactly. It's like double jeopardy. Dang, how many times does the kid need to be cleared. GEESH.

Yet Zion gets cleared once and plays after being mentioned in the Grand Jury as demanding payment.

@truehawk93 Really it’s a morals thing not NCAA. Duke vs KU. Makes it easy to see the good guys in this story. Unfortunately I don’t know that there will be a happy ending or any form of redemption.

@dylans You can call it or claim it in the name of whatever is right and good, but as HEM so clearly stated in his response to me the NCAA is "theoretically" responsible for holding the "best interests" of the colleges and student athletes. However, in the same statement we can all unanimously agree the NCAA is "NOT PERFECT." Yet, they are charged with keeping "best interests" in check?

What's worse, the NCAA basically admits they are not capable of keeping "best interests" in check, so they hire the FBI. This means the FBI is the new NCAA. If the NCAA is so inadequate, incapable, and incompetent to care for the "best interests" of the NCAA and their athletes, maybe they should have a major overhaul, purpose, or responsibility. They sure can't seem to tie their shoes at this point and it's clear college sports are out of control.

Yet, the athlete suffers at the "rules" of the NCAA. Sorry, I don't buy it. YES, you're right dylans, it is IMMORAL and highly suspect at this point. So, they bring in the FBI and now Emmerts isn't responsible for the findings. The big bad FBI takes the NCAA heat and responsibility. Emmerts saves the NCAA relationship with his money making programs, like Puke. There are no enemies, only victims...the student athletes.

You can argue against the rules, but until they are changed it is what it is. Silvio or someone acting on Silvio’s behalf allegedly took money. Either he plays and is ruled ineligible later forcing KU to forfeit games as they cheated by playing an ineligible player. Or he sits and awaits his punishment, hopefully time served. Or he plays like Ayton at Arizona or Zion at Duke and the fans have a moral dilemma -or not depending on morals (I prefer less gray area).

Say you don’t agree with the pot laws in KS - it doesn’t make weed any more legal. Right or wrong it is the law(rule).

Unfortunately this is a situation that trying to do the right thing is excruciating painful as the NCAA won’t just rule. Just as likely the NCAA has made a ruling and KU is appealing trying to save the kids eligibility, eligibility that his guardian may have thrown away. Silvio is the unfortunate victim, but his camp may not be without fault. - the getaway driver at a bank heist gone wrong can be charged with murder too.

Really the annoying part of the entire process is that it’s not transparent.

Not a peep from the NCAA.

And that’s ridiculous. That’s why there’s so much animosity in this thread. We are all in the dark, waiting, speculating.

None of us have any idea if Self is holding Silvio out because that’s what he feels he needs to do, or if the NCAA is behind the scenes hinting that he should do so. Self won’t tell us the whole truth.

It’s all about student athletes and their right to privacy?

The difference I see between Silvio’s case and many others in regards to KU is that the only money given to Silvio(indirectly perhaps) was $2500 for online classes involving KU. The other money was given to his guardian to get him to go to a different school. That may leave KU guilty by association only for the 2500 which would be minor in comparison to the total paid out. I still would not take the chance to play him.

The fact Silvio allegedly went against his mentor leading him to go elsewhere (was it Maryland?) and him deciding to go to KU leads me to believe he wasn’t involved in the first payment. In the past I have assumed the player was in the know from the get go this time I have some doubt.

Read ku sports.com sounds just like Preston. We are not pursuing it. Sounds like to me.

Maybe I missed it... but is Maryland under the spotlight?

drgnslayr said:

Maybe I missed it... but is Maryland under the spotlight?

Not that I've seen.

HighEliteMajor said:

One important thing to remember is that the NCAA has not made us do anything with SDS. KU is choosing to sit SDS out of caution. It’s our choice. And that choice is made by folks with more info. The same ones that say Preston. And we now know some of that story.

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Isn't this a joint eligibility review between KU/NCAA? I believe that was the official designation of this thing but its been a few months so I might need to refresh the exact details. Not that I think it matters but in the case of KU choosing to sit out SDS is it really their choice? I think it was the only choice KU had after the trial all things considered. Protect the goods (program, brand, Self etc). Too much money at stake to risk playing him right?

jayhawkcsg said:

Really the annoying part of the entire process is that it’s not transparent.

Not a peep from the NCAA.

And that’s ridiculous. That’s why there’s so much animosity in this thread. We are all in the dark, waiting, speculating.

None of us have any idea if Self is holding Silvio out because that’s what he feels he needs to do, or if the NCAA is behind the scenes hinting that he should do so. Self won’t tell us the whole truth.

It’s all about student athletes and their right to privacy?

Great post. I believe the privacy laws prohibit both sides from talking while its on-going.

Transparency from the NCAA is fools gold. Just look at the rule book.

Self said today there's no movement on Silvio's eligibility that would lead him to believe he plays anytime soon. Pretty much Nail in the Coffin at this point.

Says he "asks everyday" and the response is "working on it".

I won't be surprised if SDS leaves and heads overseas like Billy did last year. There is no reason to sit on the bench and wast your time and talents. It is absolutely absurd that it has come to this, but I think SDS needs to at least be considering moving on.

@BeddieKU23 who is working on it?

@Crimsonorblue22 Bill said the school is working on it everyday, but he is not privy to that information.

Woodrow said:

I won't be surprised if SDS leaves and heads overseas like Billy did last year. There is no reason to sit on the bench and wast your time and talents. It is absolutely absurd that it has come to this, but I think SDS needs to at least be considering moving on.

As much as I think that's a possibility Preston didn't last long overseas, get drafted, or last long in the NBA for that matter. I think Silvio might be waiting to find out what his eligibility for next season would be before deciding on his future here.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 who is working on it?

Probably the same turds that worked on Diallo's case.

Woodrow said:

I won't be surprised if SDS leaves and heads overseas like Billy did last year. There is no reason to sit on the bench and wast your time and talents. It is absolutely absurd that it has come to this, but I think SDS needs to at least be considering moving on.

I-have to agree with you - -I have been thinking this for awhile now. - - I really don't understand why he still hangs around. - The only thing I can think of that some how some way that he knows he will be eligible and just waiting. - if we go through the entire season with no answer - he for sure will be gone - -eligible or no - -and I sure the hell don't blame him

Why would we think there is any chance he will play at this point? We lost a big and took a RS off a guard. We need the big more....and he will never get out of NCAA purgatory.

Well actually we need both, charlie is terrible!

From the Athletic. For those that have full article may be able to elaborate.

Multiple sources have confirmed to The Athletic that Kansas is preparing to formally acknowledge to the NCAA that a violation took place, declare De Sousa ineligible and ask for his immediate reinstatement. The request is expected to be submitted to the NCAA’s Academic and Membership Affairs Group as early as this week.

@BeddieKU23 Basically nothing more than that. Other than the penalty for $2500 payment is typically only 30% of a season. De Sousa has now missed 16 games.

NCAA and Maryland didn’t find evidence of the 60,000

So will this force the NCAA to action? Good grief why does KU have to make the dang NCAA get off it’s butt and do its job?!?

@dylans

I wouldn't expect immediate action on the NCAA's part unless they agree with what KU presents.

This report from the surface makes it seem KU held him out, did its own investigation and will give them the tools to re-instate him. They may have collaborated together so that KU doesn't have to wait for the NCAA to say "we need more information". A ruling could come quickly if that's the case.

The ruling of Miami's Dewan Hernandez could be important here. A final appeal decision is due on his eligibility. Not that his or Silvio's situation are the same but both involved money in different amounts and if the NCAA rules favorably or against Hernandez that could impact Silvio's case

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2019/jan/14/report-ku-officials-to-ask-ncaa-to-reins/ ↗

I mean, we all know it was a violation and that penalties were likely coming. Might as well just admit to them, take whatever medicine is coming, and get our player back.

I think this also allows Silvio to get a Lawyer involved and usually when that happens, the NCAA tends to move a bit quicker.

@Kcmatt7

Took almost 3 months to get to this point.. Further punishment would suck considering he's sat 16 games already and will sit another at least.

Our rebounding woe's would come to a hault awful quick if Silvio can enter the lineup.

If I am understanding what Tait wrote it is that KU is now finally admitting a violation occurred, but they feel he has served enough time out and should be reinstated immediately.

I don't want to get my hopes up, but damn SDS would help this team so much!

@BeddieKU23 I firmly believe that adding another athlete turns this team back into a true title contender. Adding De Sousa would mean we will be able to move to a very solid 7 man rotation and have 5 athletes on the floor the entire game.

Just to refresh everyone's memories, in games where he played 10 minutes or more, he averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds. He shot .681 and 2.8 offensive rebounds a game. Many of his advanced stats would be near the top of this team. His rebound percentage was 24% (Dedric who is a good rebounder is at 18%). De Sousa, if he improved any since last season, would likely be a major upgrade to Mitch, KJ and Big Dave.

Let's look at KU now .. why are we just now prepared to formally acknowledge this? How about doing that at the same press conference where Self proclaimed himself free of any knowledge of third party inducements provided to our players? Conflicting narratives? I don't know.

@Kcmatt7

Silvio is a difference maker in my opinion. We saw it with our own eyes last year as well. He'd certainly help us defensively on the glass and around the rim which where his two main strengths last year. Not getting my hopes up but there's at least some hope we didn't think was possible yesterday

@HighEliteMajor

Maybe the guardian talked or they dug deep enough to find it out what happened?

I'm wondering why Kansas is submitting a request for reinstatement now. Why not a few months ago?

Also, any guesses what Kansas' punishment will be?

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 I firmly believe that adding another athlete turns this team back into a true title contender. Adding De Sousa would mean we will be able to move to a very solid 7 man rotation and have 5 athletes on the floor the entire game.

Just to refresh everyone's memories, in games where he played 10 minutes or more, he averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds. He shot .681 and 2.8 offensive rebounds a game. Many of his advanced stats would be near the top of this team. His rebound percentage was 24% (Dedric who is a good rebounder is at 18%). De Sousa, if he improved any since last season, would likely be a major upgrade to Mitch, KJ and Big Dave.

Dotson, Vick, Grimes, Garrett, Agbaji, Dedric, Silvio. KJ as the 8th man.

!alt text ↗

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

I'm wondering why Kansas is submitting a request for reinstatement now. Why not a few months ago?

Also, any guesses what Kansas' punishment will be?

“Over the last three months, Kansas has been working directly with members of the NCAA’s enforcement division to investigate the matter and agree upon a set of facts"

This could be why.

It makes a huge difference if he plays. He's one of the best rebounding players in the country; 16.9 rebounds per 40 minutes as a freshman and a total rebounding percentage (TRB%) of 24.0. For comparison, Zion Williamson averages 14.6 rebounds per 40 minutes and has a TRB% of 18.4. Silvio also shot 68% from the field and 71.4% from the free throw line last season. He can run the floor and finish at the rim and he plays good defense.

BeddieKU23 said:

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

I'm wondering why Kansas is submitting a request for reinstatement now. Why not a few months ago?

Also, any guesses what Kansas' punishment will be?

“Over the last three months, Kansas has been working directly with members of the NCAA’s enforcement division to investigate the matter and agree upon a set of facts"

This could be why.

If they've come to an agreement on a set of facts, is it wrong to think a decision should come quickly after Kansas submits a request for reinstatement?

@KirkIsMyHinrich Dotson, Vick, Garrett, Agbaji, Silvio line-up. Put the other team in the meat locker defensively.

And... they investigated the 60,000. Clean.

@Crimsonorblue22 - now that's an interesting thought!

It is possible KU isn't admitting guilt (i.e., didn't know about the $2,500 at the time) but now has established it as fact. Thus asking for resolution?

Admitting guilt on the 2,500

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Admitting guilt on the 2,500

Admitting KU knew or that Silvio and his guardian knew?

I got the athletic for 7 days free. We could take turns.

Admitting the guardian did it.

Though Gassnola allegedly paid the money to De Sousa’s guardian without the player’s knowledge, he would still face a penalty because of the so-called “Cam Newton rule,” which was passed in 2012 and identifies a member of a player’s family as a de facto agent.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

I'm wondering why Kansas is submitting a request for reinstatement now. Why not a few months ago?

Also, any guesses what Kansas' punishment will be?

vacated FF and B12. They will drag us through the mud I'd bet.

Kcmatt7 said:

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

I'm wondering why Kansas is submitting a request for reinstatement now. Why not a few months ago?

Also, any guesses what Kansas' punishment will be?

vacated FF and B12. They will drag us through the mud I'd bet.

I hope not.

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 I firmly believe that adding another athlete turns this team back into a true title contender. Adding De Sousa would mean we will be able to move to a very solid 7 man rotation and have 5 athletes on the floor the entire game.

Just to refresh everyone's memories, in games where he played 10 minutes or more, he averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds. He shot .681 and 2.8 offensive rebounds a game. Many of his advanced stats would be near the top of this team. His rebound percentage was 24% (Dedric who is a good rebounder is at 18%). De Sousa, if he improved any since last season, would likely be a major upgrade to Mitch, KJ and Big Dave.

Dotson, Vick, Grimes, Garrett, Agbaji, Dedric, Silvio. KJ as the 8th man.

!alt text ↗

@KirkIsMyHinrich I would bet that is why we went through such lengths. But at this point, knowing he'd be retroactively ineligible for those games my guess is that is what happens and we are at least trying to get him eligible now.

But that's just my guess.

HighEliteMajor said:

Let's look at KU now .. why are we just now prepared to formally acknowledge this? How about doing that at the same press conference where Self proclaimed himself free of any knowledge of third party inducements provided to our players? Conflicting narratives? I don't know.

Let's fire him.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Basically KU is admitting to him being ineligible during last years run and that he has sat enough to not warrant anymore of a penalty. So the question becomes does the NCAA clear him but take away last years run by forfeiting the games SDS played in? Basically all but 3 wins after he was cleared (January 13 was his first game) would be vacated along with the record 14 straight B12 titles and record 29 straight NCAA tournament appearances. I’d like to see Head Coach Bill Self fired if that happens, we have had some minor infractions in the past but never had wins vacated and it will put one Helluva black eye on this program. To make matters worse if plays out that way Zion is getting paid to play at Duke and UNC players can take fake class. NCAA=North Carolina Amnesty Association. I’m gonna be honest, this is scary to me and it could cripple Kansas Athletics beyond recovery. With conference realignment seeming inevitable yet again once the current media contract is up and if the football team is still struggling while the basketball team is a deep rebuild after several vacated accomplishments and a new coach. Hello mid major and not playing on national tv, which means not getting good recruits across the board in FB and BB.

@Kcmatt7 Of course, an inflammatory comment made to distract from the point being made.

@kjayhawks It should scare you. I think the NCAA might have a bit bigger burr in its saddle if it thinks Self publically lied. We could be the example.

Which goes back to my "burn it down" strategy. Tell the NCAA if they want to hammer, so be it .. but we know where the bodies are buried. Maybe hit us with the loss of a scholarship for a couple seasons, and be done with it.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

BeddieKU23 said:

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

I'm wondering why Kansas is submitting a request for reinstatement now. Why not a few months ago?

Also, any guesses what Kansas' punishment will be?

“Over the last three months, Kansas has been working directly with members of the NCAA’s enforcement division to investigate the matter and agree upon a set of facts"

This could be why.

If they've come to an agreement on a set of facts, is it wrong to think a decision should come quickly after Kansas submits a request for reinstatement?

Depends on what you call quickly. I doubt this week. Slight chance before the end of next.. With the NCAA, who knows LOL.

If the NCAA agrees on what KU submits then if his time served is sufficient it should be rather straightforward I would think..

@HighEliteMajor We know we paid players through a 3rd party. We know Bill Self lied about it. Either follow through and demand he be fired or get over it and realize that he is our coach and not going anywhere.

@Kcmatt7 I'm not sure we know that Self lied at this point even. It is questionable how much he knew but I still stand with letting him go if we have to give away wins and titles.

This is about Silvio only. KU's penalties if there is any will come after the season is over. KU will lawyer up for anything the NCAA tries to hand out.

A lot of over reacting going on in here. Wow.

Those who want Self fired, seriously think about who the next coach would be. Beard is going to UT or not leaving TTU. Bennett is likely staying on the East Coast.

Rick Pitino was just seriously considered for the UCLA job. Hoiberg seems to want to stay in the NBA.

If USA Basketball didn't can him and the NABC didn't can him I think that's a pretty good sign that his internal reputation (those that know what goes on behind the scenes in CBB) think he's a good coach. One slip up in 15 years is hardly something I'd be calling for a firing. You can question him for lying, but the truth is that there is likely nothing definitive that proves he told Adidas reps to pay anyone. But everyone knew what was happening. I just watched Law Abiding Citizen the other day, and this quote is applicable, "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court!"

If you think firing Bill and hiring anyone else will change something, please explain that to me. Because I can't seem to see how it would change a single thing, other than we'd be letting go of a coach who wins at a pretty historical rate.

@Kcmatt7 Hoiberg doesn't like recruiting, so I'd want no part of him.

I don't think he did know at the time, I think they have been investigating this matter.

@Kcmatt7 Fred he'd rather be coaching college in an ESPN article a few weeks back.

Yeah, Bill isn't getting fired even if there is a smoking gun that links him to a payment.

kjayhawks said:

@Kcmatt7 Fred he'd rather be coaching college in an ESPN article a few weeks back.

Same article said his preference was to stay in the NBA.

"Wojnarowski added that Hoiberg would prefer to remain in the NBA as a coach."

I do think KU would be one job he'd consider leaving the NBA for, but most signs point to him being the Timberwolves next HC.

@Kcmatt7 Your response was an off-putting, "Let's fire him." Much like many do in reply when anyone criticizes him. If you would have phrased it differently, I would have caught your point I think. You may not have meant it that way, but that's how I read it.

So you think it's clear he has knowledge of the muck and he's lied? Ok.

I do think Self should be fired if he lied about all of this in that press conference. That was too public, too black and white from a leader. I'm in the camp that's more in favor of waiting and seeing. Of course, your view on this as far as the facts are hard to dispute (and I don't).

@MR11 Don't be so sure. In fact, if that happens, I think it's highly likely that he's gone. I really wish he'd have hedged it all a bit as I mentioned just after the press conference. That's why you listen to your lawyer. Even if the actual knowledge (details) are shielded from the King, hedging would still be better.

@HighEliteMajor The fake fan predicts Bill will be fired. Whudda thunk it?

Fun game suggestion: Let's all count how many posters on this thread today seem determined to outdo each other going off the deep end before anything definitive has occurred.

Get a grip, people. Wait for facts, and please don't think your opinions or suspicions are facts no matter how strongly held.

Bitching at each other for voicing differing speculations is a sign of misdirected anger. Is there some sort of race here, or a betting pool, that motivates some posters to insist on the finality and absolute accuracy of their viewpoints?

Wow.

No

I don't think any of us know much about the Silvio case.

I'm hearing people say, "why didn't the university declare Silvio ineligible earlier and then proceed with trying to get him reinstated?"

On the surface, that sounds like a fair question. But do any of us really think the university/athletic department/coaching staff is "out to lunch" on this? There are reasons why things happen and when they happen.

It will really be something if Silvio gets back in the game for us! Strangely... as much of a Doke fan as I am... I have come to realize that our better lineup ahead could be Silvio replacing Doke. Silvio has speed! Silvio has the ability to shoot outside of the box. Silvio is a better FT shooter. And, arguably, a better defender! And, of course... our best rebounder!

Now... throw in Agbaji to this mix! We could have one VERY QUICK team with plenty of depth! Suddenly... we become a defensive NIGHTMARE for opponents!

Is it possible our best potential is ahead of us? And, on top of that... maybe we get Doke back next year as a senior!

My glass runneth over... the heck with being half full!

Think, people.. think! Better... dream!

FWIW, Seth Davis thinks Silvio plays Saturday. Would be a terrific development.

@FarmerJayhawk Change the ceiling of the team imo. His rebounding is tremendous.

@FarmerJayhawk woah! Was that in his article?

Woodrow said:

@FarmerJayhawk woah! Was that in his article?

He tweeted it in response to a question if memory serves.

The way big David is playing even with Doke out. I hate that Mitch isn’t able to use a redshirt because I see his minutes going down to very minimum if SDS is able to go.

Norm said after game his mouth wasn't very good.

@KUSTEVE Oh, the "real" fan speaks. Good for a chuckle.

Seth Davis's "educated guess" better be right

BeddieKU23 said:

Seth Davis's "educated guess" better be right

Yesterday, Seth Davis tweeted, "Hoops Thoughts Exclusive: Kansas will ask NCAA to reinstate Silvo De Sousa." Reply from reader: "Seth - what would you say re the chances Silvio plays this year?" Seth Davis: "I think it is likely (but far from definite that he plays Saturday vs West Virginia. Just an educated guess."

It would be nice to know where Seth got his "education"

@bcjayhawk

The more I read that it was more a split answer, he thinks Silvio will play this year but has no idea if that could be as soon as Saturday? Am I reading that right?

Anyways The Athletic broke this story and a lot of other places ran with the story so hopefully they didn't just catch a headline for the sake of it. Hopefully there is actually some merit that there could be a ruling one way or the other.

BeddieKU23 said:

@bcjayhawk

The more I read that it was more a split answer, he thinks Silvio will play this year but has no idea if that could be as soon as Saturday? Am I reading that right?

Anyways The Athletic broke this story and a lot of other places ran with the story so hopefully they didn't just catch a headline for the sake of it. Hopefully there is actually some merit that there could be a ruling one way or the other.

@BeddieKU23 I suspect you're right. Since Davis didn't provide any context for the information or source of its origin, we're really just sitting in the dark with our fingers crossed:fingers_crossed_tone2:

I'm going with the full glass!🥛

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I'm going with the full glass!🥛

@Crimsonorblue22 From your lips (fingers?) to God's ears!

@Crimsonorblue22 You're braver than I am ... but the idea of having SDS should get all KU fans very excited. The guy is dynamic, and would fit perfectly with what Self is wanting to do now. He can fly up and down the court, and is skilled.

I just read this from Sports Illustrated. It is based on the report from Seth Davis in The Athletic:

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/01/14/silvio-de-sousa-kansas-asking-ncaa-reinstatement ↗

It provided some detail that I wasn't aware of, including that SDS may still be ruled ineligible last year and that would vacate the FF (it doesn't mention the conference title). It seems like KU would not willingly enter into an agreement with the NCAA that would include vacating games. Is is possible there could be a negotiated settlement between KU and the NCAA that "time served" would be the only punishment? I certainly hope so - I want to get back to @Crimsonorblue22's full glass:milk:

Silvio could end riding in on the white horse not once, but TWICE in his KU career! If this happens we need to get him an epic nickname.

Second half Silvio. Who needs a non-con to get to the final four? Not Silvio!

@bcjayhawk

Yeah the part about vacating wins, the Final 4 and the Big-12 tittle is getting too far ahead with the situation.

We'll have to wait to see how this shakes out first with his eligibility. I would hope logic prevails in the aftermath of the the ruling, one way or the other.

The outcome of Miami's Dewan Hernandez eligibility case should temper expectations on Silvio. It would be a miracle if KU gets him back considering the circumstances

As a poster on the phog wrote:

Miami's guy was alleged to have signed a contract with an agent and was alleged to have received money. There is no evidence this happened because no contract has been produced that showed he did and there wasn't a money trail. Guess what the NCAA said? He is ineligible. Guess what they said on appeal? We don't care if there is no actual evidence. He is ineligible.

Maybe trying to get a better outcome is why KU takes their sweet time proceeding on these deals?!?

Gonna kick some Mountaineer butt.

BShark said:

Gonna kick some Mountaineer butt.

Great attitude! But the Mountaineers just had their butts kicked. Two in a row? Huggy meltdown?

@Gorilla72 West Virginia is 8-9 this season. They are really bad team this year and they're going to be without Konate again I believe so they won't have any rim protection. This is Huggy's worst team in a long time.

Missing Carter and West.

I think he sat Ahmad and another kid last game too.

Silvio, specifically, is going to crush WVU.

BShark said:

Silvio, specifically, is going to crush WVU.

So are we to believe the poster that said someone on the team told him Silvio was playing Saturday?

IF SDS is cleared this week, it will obviously be by tomorrow night. Keep your fingers crossed for news by then. 👍

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

Silvio, specifically, is going to crush WVU.

So are we to believe the poster that said someone on the team told him Silvio was playing Saturday?

@BeddieKU23 I must have missed the post about someone on the team saying SDS would play Saturday. Was that on some other site? The only thing I've seen is the Seth Davis tweet.

@bcjayhawk

Yeah someone on the Phog (now 247's) KU site started a thread saying he heard Silvio will play and start Saturday. He was asked about his source and said someone on the team. After that he backtracked and said he had a family source- someone in his family lives in Lawrence and relayed the message to him. He think between the Seth Davis info and his information passed on to him KU fans should feel good about him playing on Saturday.

Certainly no verifiable information but we'll know most likely within the next 24 hours or Saturday Morning whether that's happening. I wouldn't hold my breathe to it

@BeddieKU23 I feel great about Silvio playing against WVU.

Also that thread really heated up, just went to read it.

BShark said:

Also that thread really heated up, just went to read it.

@BShark Link please?

@BShark

I can't say I share your optimism but I'll be happy if it happens. If its a strategic move to wait until the last minute I understand

bcjayhawk said:

BShark said:

Also that thread really heated up, just went to read it.

@BShark Link please?

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Board/103719/Contents/Silvio-Saturday-127936942/ ↗

Self: "I don't have any Silvio news. As of today, none."

Like Eric Berry -- day-to-day. In perpetuity.

Per Jeff Goodman:

Kansas' Silivo De Sousa's lawyer Scott Tompsett, sends out a letter to media members, stating that whatever was done against the NCAA rules was done without his knowledge or involvement. Asks for NCAA to reinstatement him immediately"

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Link to full statement

Lawyered up. Let's see how quickly they rule now

This would seem like the first real item that claims SDS didn't have knowledge. I like that the lawyer asked for reinstatement, didn't "demand" it. Maybe the lawyer knows something is coming, releases a statement, so it appears his involvement caused movement. Pieces are maybe coming together.

If it ends up in court, I like SDS’s chances. A judge is gonna laugh at that small some of money compared to what Newton’s dad got, regardless of if the loop hole is closed or not, it’s definitely foolish to sit some one for pocket change.

I honestly have no idea how this will play out, mostly because the NCAA is very arbitrary and there's a lot of grey area with Silvio.

I think Newton's dad got around $180,000 from Mississippi St for Cam to play there. The $60,000 for Silvio to play at Maryland was never proven. So we're good there.

There's also the fact that Silvio is from Angola, has only known his guardian, Falmagne, for 3-4 years, and didn't know about the $2500 payment for classes made to Falmagne. I don't know if this really matters but if the NCAA's decision is at all opinion-based it could.

There are a couple of things to note about the Dewan Hernandez ruling: one, Hernandez (not a parent/guardian) was alleged to have agreed to take monthly payments from Dawkins Sep 2017 to April 2018; two, the NCAA has a precedence of taking it easy on elite/blue-blood type programs and slaughtering mid-major programs. And while Miami isn't a mid-major, they are very far from a blue-blood.

I think we may know by tomorrow, though, when KU leaves for WVU. If Silvio is ineligible he won't be able to travel with the team. If he is eligible then he can travel, obviously. This assumes that Kansas declared Silvio ineligible this week.

@KirkIsMyHinrich I would bet money on a positive announcement tomorrow, if such a thing were able to be bet on.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Statement from Long. Nothing earth shattering , but first I’ve seen him address the situation .

Fact is nobody knows jack. I asked around today and KU likes their case and feels like the process has been relatively cordial between them and the NCAA (mostly agreeing to the facts of the case) but nobody knows what the NCAA will do. For all anyone knows they could ask for more information after reviewing the case and make KU start from square two. Once the case goes to the NCAA there’s no timetable on them ruling. They actually don’t have to rule at all. My stance since the trial has been Silvio plays but may not be for awhile. I think it’ll be before February but don’t feel great about anything earlier.

@FarmerJayhawk The NCAA can always be counted on to be crap.

@FarmerJayhawk

Thanks for sharing what you heard.

HighEliteMajor said:

This would seem like the first real item that claims SDS didn't have knowledge. I like that the lawyer asked for reinstatement, didn't "demand" it. Maybe the lawyer knows something is coming, releases a statement, so it appears his involvement caused movement. Pieces are maybe coming together.

And Eric Berry IS playing Sunday. It's all coming together indeed ...

Silvio did travel to Morgantown.. we will see if that means something positive. Usually ineligible players cannot travel on the road

@BeddieKU23 It's a good sign. And I don't remember him being with the team in Waco last Saturday. Fingers Crossed

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@BeddieKU23 It's a good sign. And I don't remember him being with the team in Waco last Saturday. Fingers Crossed

I dont think he was. Hopefully some good news tomm

I think he was

He was .. I saw him in the bench.

He hasn't been ineligible

Crimsonorblue22 said:

He hasn't been ineligible

“It’s time for the NCAA to be fair to Silvio and immediately reinstate his eligibility,” wrote Scott Tompsett, of Tompsett Collegiate Sports Law in Kansas City, Mo.

@HighEliteMajor

That settles that then I suppose.

Silvio was in Waco. He's been traveling with the team all season so this isn't an indication one way or the other.

Once Cheick De Alexander gets reinstated we're gonna tear up the Big 12! :fingers_crossed:

Ya, my mistake. I heard it said by multiple posters on a different site and assumed they weren't all wrong.

Still have my fingers crossed.

@KirkIsMyHinrich I'm glad you've got your ear the the rail, just having fun with it. I'm hopeful too.

approxinfinity said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich I'm glad you've got your ear the the rail, just having fun with it. I'm hopeful too.

You're good. I don't take anything anyone here says personally except for @BShark. And if BShark says anything I'll just burn his house down tbh.

@KirkIsMyHinrich 🔥☄️🏡

Apparently KU has not declared DeSousa ineligible at this point since he has traveled with the team. NCAA rules would not allow him to travel had he been declared ineligible. If you read the statement carefully it states that KU prepared to declare him ineligible, not that they have done so. Obviously things are still some distance from being worked out.

Exactly. As I’ve mentioned before, this is solely KU’s decision to hold him out. KU just wants affirmation that they will receive no penalties if they play SDS.

Let’s all hope he brought his uniform! 👍🏻

I'm not sure that's right about taking ineligible players ? WSU takes teddy buckets-the West Virginia player declared ineligible, but I thought they said it was determined by the school about traveling. I've been wrong before.

@SouthernHawk Which statement?

The statement made yesterday by Silvio's attorney Scott Tompsett said:

"It's time for the NCAA to be fair to Silvio and immediately reinstate his eligibility."

Implying that Silvio was ineligible at the time that statement was released.

Previously, on Monday, a report from Seth Davis of the Athletic emerged that suggested KU could be moving forward with the process regarding the investigation into De Sousa's eligibility by declaring him ineligible and asking the NCAA for reinstatement. Davis also made an "educated guess" that De Sousa would be "likely," but "far from definite" to play in the Jayhawks' next game against West Virginia.

This is what I meant by he was eligible and that we were declaring ineligible so we could move on declaring time spent sitting was enough!

I hope that made sense?🤔

@Crimsonorblue22 Sure. But that report from Davis was published on Monday the 14th, 3 days prior to the statement from Tompsett.

My understanding is that when there is a serious question about eligibility the NCAA and the school put a hold on the player's eligibility status pending the school's investigation, and then the findings are submitted. Then the NCAA makes its own review and determination.

Playing a player in a hold status means you are playing a player not determined to be eligible. At best, you can only hope to get away with it if all the facts completely dispel any questions about eligibility, but I think that even in those circumstances a school commits a new violation.

The NCAA determines every athlete's eligibility. Until an athlete is declared eligible, you cannot play him. Silvio's back at square one in this process.

Guys I just feel and believe me I would hope to have Silvio -- just like you , but we need to just realize , it's not going to happen. - -Things just get crazy sometimes - -someone hears something and things blow up and people just run wild with it. - -It's not going to happen guys.

If he hasn't hit the floor by now at this stage in the season - - -he is not going to , The NCAA doesn't give a tinkers dam about the kid/any kid - -gonna be their demise . - - I want him to/just not happening.

I have read of the phog , people on there making statements such as OH WELL they probably just not gonna say anything and then we see him in the line up Saturday -- Coach Self just being quiet. -- Really? - -what is your foundation for that statement? - -I mean what does Coach have to gain on us by Saying I have heard exactly Nothing - -Nothing at all? - -what does he have to gain by telling his fans that when Silvio is ready to play? - -he has nothing to gain - -why would he lie to us about something like that - -he doesn't, I just think we have what we have to finish this year -- I think we have seen the last of Silvio on a KU floor sad to say but I think he leaves at the end of the year when the dust is settled - -thanks to the NCAA - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

A good article that summarizes the SDS status. Quotes from Self regarding KU’s choice to withhold SDS from competition.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/01/silvio-de-sousa-kansas-ncaa-update-suspended-ineligible-fbi-trials-money-jayhawks-college ↗

Yes, but with the news yesterday about his attorney, the KC Star said earlier this week he was deemed ineligible by KU. And I'm pretty sure only eligible players can travel. I could be totally off though. From Top cap journalist

I was told it was a schools decision about an ineligible player traveling w/team. We usually don't take them. But our transfers went with us last year. Guess that's different.

Hes in street clothes not playing today

@Crimsonorblue22
Basically just in limbo. At this point the NCAA decides his fate

@BeddieKU23 True. Of course we could have been playing him all along. We chose not to, and probably (obviously) wisely. The NCAA, much more importantly, will decide our fate.

I wonder how quickly the NCAA would have moved if we had played him?

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 True. Of course we could have been playing him all along. We chose not to, and probably (obviously) wisely. The NCAA, much more importantly, will decide our fate.

I wonder how quickly the NCAA would have moved if we had played him?

It would have screwed up their plan to deal with the teams after the season. Cant mess with the money involved here..

Always factor in that the Tourney makes 95% of the NCAAs revenue. A tourney without Zion is not good for business.

Kcmatt7 said:

Always factor in that the Tourney makes 95% of the NCAAs revenue. A tourney without Zion is not good for business.

Imagine if they lose in the first round or opening weekend. lol

BeddieKU23 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Always factor in that the Tourney makes 95% of the NCAAs revenue. A tourney without Zion is not good for business.

Imagine if they lose in the first round or opening weekend. lol

Oh I’m sure someone is cooking up a way to get Duke a new PG midsesason lol. A college player with 2M Instagram followers is cash money. Duke will get an absurd path this season imo. Of all the years for bias, this is the one.

@Kcmatt7

We will prolly be their 2 seed. They wouldn't dare put Tennessee, Michigan or Gonzaga in their path. Of course Virginia wont be in their way either

BeddieKU23 said:

@Kcmatt7

We will prolly be their 2 seed. They wouldn't dare put Tennessee, Michigan or Gonzaga in their path. Of course Virginia wont be in their way either

Probably in Anaheim so they can add a bunch of shitty west coast teams

Last week the board was EXCITED that Silvio would be playing against WVU or at least Iowa State. Now it's Silvio who? What gives?

@colohawks reality sunk in that the NCAA moves at a glacial pace at best and that pace slows as you move west.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Seth is obviously getting his info from someone at KU. Let’s hope he and they are right.

I hope Davis is right this time.

We keep hearing that crap!

Where the hell does Davis get his information from? - -he has to be getting it from some where - -I'll believe it when I see it - -don't bet on it. - -I think he like to see KU fans get all worked up with hope -- - who in the hell is telling him things -- - what is his information that makes him think that?

Free Silvio!

Free KU from eligibility issues!

@dylans
At this point I believe that is the key to #15 and any hopes of a tourney run beyond the Sweet 16. Was disappointed all the whispers last week amounted to nada.

CJ Moore from the Athletic is saying KU is expecting a answer on Silvio this week.

Woodrow said:

CJ Moore from the Athletic is saying KU is expecting a answer on Silvio this week.

I was reading from a guy off the LJW where he posted the link - - Seen it also. - -Saying that Silvio 's case was complicated - But the School stated that they ( KU ) - -expects a decision sometime this week and possibly as even as early as today.

Said there had been a lot of talk back and forth but appears the was significant progress made last week. Educated guess is Silvio WILL be in uniform by the time KU host Texas Tech Saturday but also a decent chance he will play at Texas Tuesday, - -Saying we should have a resolution very soon.

I know guys I'll believe it when I see it BUT maybe there is some truth to it -- seems to be quite a bit of smoke coming from different people/places we shall see - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 !0_1548691167299_BB15C929-A31C-45A1-9E57-BFE370E9BC25.png ↗

Not like our season is riding on this or anything.

GOOD THING ALL OF THIS WILL BE OVER WITH

@jayballer73 FREE SILVIO...

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 FREE SILVIO...

:fist_tone1: :fist_tone2: :fist_tone5: :fist_tone2: :fist_tone1: :fist_tone5::fist_tone4:

Miami's Dewan Hernandez is suspended this whole year and 40% of next year for accepting benefits from a agent. ( I am not familiar with his case)

However, this might be a step in the right direction into actually getting some answer on Silvio.

Seth Davis seems to be retracting his earlier stance on believing Silvio will be playing soon.

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Just seems like the NCAA is prolonging this BS for no other reason than a power play. Give the kid an answer already!

On the bright side for the 19-20 season, Hernandez from Miami will be able to play half of next season...

So it looks like we will at least get Silvio for next season.

Maybe, just maybe, the silver lining in all of this is that next year's team ends up what this year's team should have been... Of course that all depends on the decisions of Dedric and Doke.

So if what I read is correct it looks like all Hernandez did was let a agent pay for his hotel room... ( approx $500) If that is the case there is no way Silvio is getting cleared.

And if he is declared ineligible for the rest of the year and or any part of next year he is going to turn pro I would think.

According to the facts of the case, which were agreed upon by the university, Hernandez agreed to receive monthly payments from an agent and accepted other benefits from the individual. According to the guidelines adopted by NCAA membership, the starting point for these violations is permanent ineligibility, but the NCAA staff recognized mitigating circumstances based on the specific facts of the case when making its decision.

The difference between Silvio and Hernandez is that Hernandez allegedly entered into the agreement himself, whereas Silvio reportedly did not know about the money received on his behalf. That may be the mitigating factor, but the NCAA is trying to look like they are hard-lining this "corruption" so who knows what they will do.

@Kcmatt7 We should have most of the team back.

@KUSTEVE If we returned everyone except Vick and Charlie Moore, we could be a scary bunch.

Kcmatt7 said:

@KUSTEVE If we returned everyone except Vick and Charlie Moore, we could be a scary bunch.

Charlie moore is not goning anywere

@JAYHAWKFAN214

He certainly isn't playing if he stays

Maybe since they ruled on Hernandez, they can spend more time on Silvio's case....hahaha most likely not. I agree with @1JayhawkLifer Silvio's case is a little bit different from the stand point that he had no knowledge of the money and Hernandez was supposed to get monthly payments as well. I'm just shocked they made a ruling that hurts a ACC team tho the team isn't very good and likely wouldn't be ruled the same if it was a Dook, UNC or Syracuse player.

1JayhawkLifer said:

Seth Davis seems to be retracting his earlier stance on believing Silvio will be playing soon.

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Just seems like the NCAA is prolonging this BS for no other reason than a power play. Give the kid an answer already!

I didn’t read it as retracting. There’s always a chance the NCAA declares him ineligible or suspends him the rest of the year. Langford should be back in the next few weeks.

Not too derail this, but can we please stop pretending that Dedric is coming back.

@Woodrow I agree, not much for him to gain IMO. I predict Dedric, KJ, Vick(duh) and Moore are all gonna be gone.

FarmerJayhawk said:

1JayhawkLifer said:

Seth Davis seems to be retracting his earlier stance on believing Silvio will be playing soon.

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Just seems like the NCAA is prolonging this BS for no other reason than a power play. Give the kid an answer already!

I didn’t read it as retracting. There’s always a chance the NCAA declares him ineligible or suspends him the rest of the year. Langford should be back in the next few weeks.

Maybe so...just the way he was writing about it on The Athletic sure made it sound like Silvio would be playing this Sat. Maybe just my wishful thinking. ;(

@jayballer73 - would be nice, wouldn’t it!

@Kcmatt7 - that’s what this years team should have been. Seems like there’s always something, usually with a big man. Hoping SDS gets cleared this week. It will be interesting in the off season to see who declares for the draft, beginning as early as the day after the last game...

@Gorilla72 This year's team, with Silvio and Doke, likely are fighting for the #1 spot. Certainly we end up beating UK.

I'm just hoping that the basketball Gods show us mercy and finally let the stars align next season.

JAYHAWKFAN214 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@KUSTEVE If we returned everyone except Vick and Charlie Moore, we could be a scary bunch.

Charlie moore is not goning anywere

Wanna put $50 on it?

Woodrow said:

Not too derail this, but can we please stop pretending that Dedric is coming back.

Lol this is 100% accurate. And it would be so dumb if he did come back.

But I'm going to imagine it for like 5 more minutes.

I mean, it's very clear he's leaving. We are basically only recruiting Hurt and Precious at the moment... I wonder who they're replacing???

It wouldn't even make sense for Dedric to come back. The dude should end up with his degree after this year and at that point, GO GET THAT PAPER.

@Kcmatt7 Hubba..hubba... that would be incredible, and McBride and Braun will help the outside shooting.

Hernandez entered the draft. He can return but who would in that situation. I don't see this ending well for Silvio. It's not this hard. Everyone just made it that way.

Ever heard of the word "foreboding"? It fits here.

Similar cases with eligibility, Hernandez, Bowen both suspended for the yr plus some into next. They both went professional after. It's only a matter of time before Silvio is the 3rd.

The NCAA is doing what they always do.

Wasn't Bowen's decided rather quickly? Or not. Wasn't Hernandez getting monthly payments, no adults involved? I really don't know. Seems so much worse than Silvio, to me of course.

@BeddieKU23 at this point if KU doesnt recieve any infractions. I would would be fine with that because we would know for sure about not only this season but next.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Wasn't Bowen's decided rather quickly? Or not. Wasn't Hernandez getting monthly payments, no adults involved? I really don't know. Seems so much worse than Silvio, to me of course.

Yeah his was in part because he was the ring leader of this all from the Louisville scandal. Just connecting the dots of how the cases have been ruled no matter the infraction its had the same result

kjayhawks said:

@BeddieKU23 at this point if KU doesnt recieve any infractions. I would would be fine with that because we would know for sure about not only this season but next.

Always grey area with this team now. It's not good

@BeddieKU23 just want a sliver of hope

FWIW (not much at this point) I've heard a ruling will come before tip tomorrow. Which almost certainly means we won't have a ruling before tip tomorrow.

Looks like Seth Davis is backing that up. Not in a possitive way though.

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If this is true -should we REALLY be surprised when deal with this warm pile of crap that is called the NCAA? - -I'm not. - -I mean we are not an ACC school ESPN darlings - -the NCAA & ESPN almost go hand in hand they both suck ACC butt all year - UNC and their fake classes. - - Silvio got royally screwed in this - -now his handler o the other hand - - ya he might smell - -well if this is true then we got what we wanted - - a decision. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Clearly there is more to the story than what we know if he's ruled ineligible. Of course, it should come out in the findings report so we will actually know the truth for once.

Well just came out - -Silvio must sit rest of this season AND ALL of next season - - SILVIO GONE

SITTING OUT REST OF THIS YR - -BECAUSE guardian receiving 2,500 dollars and then additional money later - - - so Silvio is gone

NCAA is pathetic between this and the missouri situation.

BShark said:

NCAA is pathetic between this and the missouri situation.

Coach Self spoke and said he in all his years has never seen such an unjust ruling and mean spirited group on this kid

like these sports announcers said = = =this kid got SCREWED because of his handler receiving the money from this sorry shit - - and also money from booster - said something about Maryland booster - -feel really bad for Silvio

Was there more to it than the tuition money? If not, what a crock.

of course Jeff Long of course saying the Unniversity said they were shocked by this and will be appealing the decision for a kid that did nothing wrong - - Jeff Goodman said he truly feels and would be shocked if Silvio had any knowledge of this

Lawyers....can Silvio's lawyer file a counter suit against the NCAA for dereliction of duty?

they are comparing Josh Shelby having to sit out NINE GAMES to this with Silvio - -talking about how unfair - - crazy

Interesting that they choose to suspend him for not only this year but all of next. It doesn't really line up with what they have done in the past, Selby took $1500 from his prom which included a limo, tux and hotel rooms, was suspended 9 games. Silvio himself basically got nothing and has already sat out more than twice as many games. All while Zion more than likely is getting paid right now. The positive thing is that at least we know going forward, pending the appeal and it doesn't sound like they want us to vacate anything. I know Self and Long have commented negatively about it but if we don't have to vacate anything. I'd just be done with it. The appeal likely wont be done anytime soon so the season likely wouldn't matter if he gets cleared.

Mother effer.
Interesting that the Miami kid's suspension was more lenient than Silvio's.
Sucks. Sorry Silvio. I imagine there's even more behind the scenes we don't know about. Two seasons. that's pretty harsh.
I'm guessing Silvio is guilty of something that wasn't released in the statement.

But the good thing is that we now know what we have to work with, and Self can adjust the lineup and offense accordingly.
Dunno what he'll do, but at least we can pretend we have a direction and can stick with it.

Kids life being ruined by decisions made by adults. Always a damn shame.

I guess the last two days should be a wake up call though. Harsh penalties for Midwest schools.

No Silvio got screwed but it's because Kansas basketball must live on. Cant disrupt the money here. Sad sad ruling. All of next year. Go pound sand NCAA. No rules stating thats the penalty, no transparency, no understanding of what they do. They are making examples of kids because that's what they ultimately still control. Pathetic

It's nice to know one way or the other 21 games too late.

You all realize that the NCAA statement said that a Kansas booster was involved? Not just an Adidas guy?

This is really concerning.

And if we absolve a player that involves a third party in his recruitment -- that third party then taking money -- then there are no rules, right?

All that said, why isn't his guardian targeted by the FBI? Or the booster?

And even bigger to me -- if we know Zion, or someone else took money, why are we quiet? Burn it down.

I don't mind rules. I don't mind a reasonable suspension. What I mind is when it is not applied across the board, or when prosecution/investigation targets only a select few.

The obvious better penalty would have been to suspend him this year only.

We should hold our breath ... Here's betting we get a postseason ban in 2019-20, and maybe even forfeiting the final four last season.

And this is part of the reason why I said a while back that there is a reasonable chance that Bill Self is not here next season. This can lead to a coach leaving, for sure. Or, if it's found that Self knew in some way, being forced out.

The NBA is waiting.

You want this to quit happening? 1- QUIT recruiting questionable people. 2- DROP ADIDAS. Pick up Nike immediately. Zion has 100 dollar bills coming out of his socks. His mother declared bankruptcy two years ago, and just bought an 800 thousand dollar house. It is on record that KT discussed the "price" for Zion, and these bastards have simply swept it under the rug. Get under the Nike circle of protection- there you can offer players 100k, and nothing happens.

HighEliteMajor said:

You all realize that the NCAA statement said that a Kansas booster was involved? Not just an Adidas guy?

This is really concerning.

And if we absolve a player that involves a third party in his recruitment -- that third party then taking money -- then there are no rules, right?

All that said, why isn't his guardian targeted by the FBI? Or the booster?

And even bigger to me -- if we know Zion, or someone else took money, why are we quiet? Burn it down.

I don't mind rules. I don't mind a reasonable suspension. What I mind is when it is not applied across the board, or when prosecution/investigation targets only a select few.

The obvious better penalty would have been to suspend him this year only.

We should hold our breath ... Here's betting we get a postseason ban in 2019-20, and maybe even forfeiting the final four last season.

And this is part of the reason why I said a while back that there is a reasonable chance that Bill Self is not here next season. This can lead to a coach leaving, for sure. Or, if it's found that Self knew in some way, being forced out.

The NBA is waiting.

BILL SELF IS NOT LEAVING

@HighEliteMajor

By booster are you assuming Gassnola? He is the only one listed in the reports. Is there something else your seeing?

jayhawkcsg said:

But the good thing is that we now know what we have to work with, and Self can adjust the lineup and offense accordingly.
Dunno what he'll do, but at least we can pretend we have a direction and can stick with it.

you would think wouldn't you that they just have to try and get Dave more minutes wouldn't you -- stat to develop him more add that other Big - -got to do something

HighEliteMajor said:

You all realize that the NCAA statement said that a Kansas booster was involved? Not just an Adidas guy?

This is really concerning.

And if we absolve a player that involves a third party in his recruitment -- that third party then taking money -- then there are no rules, right?

All that said, why isn't his guardian targeted by the FBI? Or the booster?

And even bigger to me -- if we know Zion, or someone else took money, why are we quiet? Burn it down.

I don't mind rules. I don't mind a reasonable suspension. What I mind is when it is not applied across the board, or when prosecution/investigation targets only a select few.

The obvious better penalty would have been to suspend him this year only.

We should hold our breath ... Here's betting we get a postseason ban in 2019-20, and maybe even forfeiting the final four last season.

And this is part of the reason why I said a while back that there is a reasonable chance that Bill Self is not here next season. This can lead to a coach leaving, for sure. Or, if it's found that Self knew in some way, being forced out.

The NBA is waiting.

But why do we want to punish 17 year old kids for the decisions of adults? That’s my issue. I understand no punishment doesn’t work. It’s why the NCAA needs to address the real issue at hand. A 3rd party is willing to pay athletes at this level. Enough to corrupt a majority of the top 150 recruits each season. They need to come up with a way for them to earn some semblance of what they’re worth from their likeness.

The system is broken.

BeddieKU23 said:

No Silvio got screwed but it's because Kansas basketball must live on. Cant disrupt the money here. Sad sad ruling. All of next year. Go pound sand NCAA. No rules stating thats the penalty, no transparency, no understanding of what they do. They are making examples of kids because that's what they ultimately still control. Pathetic

It's nice to know one way or the other 21 games too late.

All the NCAA is doing is digging it's pathetic little grave even deeper. -I as well as others just can't believe it will be too much longer before schools break away from the NCAA completely.

Like I said you would have to think we just got to work Dave more now don't we - -get him into the mix more and develop him - -not gonna help much this year but got to start sometime and we need some minutes out of him more this year yet. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

HighEliteMajor said:

You all realize that the NCAA statement said that a Kansas booster was involved? Not just an Adidas guy?

This is really concerning.

And if we absolve a player that involves a third party in his recruitment -- that third party then taking money -- then there are no rules, right?

All that said, why isn't his guardian targeted by the FBI? Or the booster?

And even bigger to me -- if we know Zion, or someone else took money, why are we quiet? Burn it down.

I don't mind rules. I don't mind a reasonable suspension. What I mind is when it is not applied across the board, or when prosecution/investigation targets only a select few.

The obvious better penalty would have been to suspend him this year only.

We should hold our breath ... Here's betting we get a postseason ban in 2019-20, and maybe even forfeiting the final four last season.

And this is part of the reason why I said a while back that there is a reasonable chance that Bill Self is not here next season. This can lead to a coach leaving, for sure. Or, if it's found that Self knew in some way, being forced out.

The NBA is waiting.

it was the same person that gave him the initial money

KUSTEVE said:

You want this to quit happening? 1- QUIT recruiting questionable people. 2- DROP ADIDAS. Pick up Nike immediately. Zion has 100 dollar bills coming out of his socks. His mother declared bankruptcy two years ago, and just bought an 800 thousand dollar house. It is on record that KT discussed the "price" for Zion, and these bastards have simply swept it under the rug. Get under the Nike circle of protection- there you can offer players 100k, and nothing happens.

the thing is - -whats sad Silvio is the one being screwed he didn't know about this going on. - -Like they said on the radio this afternoon -- he went on line to finish High School early to come help KU like they said this kid was 17 yrs old - -his fricking handler needs strung up - - he is the screw up - -and Silvio is the one who gets screwed. takes on line classes so he can graduate early and come help us get to the final 4 - -and this is what he get's - -a half of year of College - -a screw job with no lube and a Thank you.

The way to keep this from happening anymore is we just GOT to stay away from these kids that have questionable handlers that are just looking for money - - handouts who have no compassion for the kid

@jayballer73 I think the ACC has huge influence over the NCAA, especially the enforcement division. That way, the largest academic fraud case in history simply goes away, and competitors not in the ACC get the book thrown at them. Or I should say, ACC members that take Nike money. If you're with Adidas, it doesn't matter what conference you're in- you're public enemy number 1. This is a hit job aimed at our program, and aimed at Adidas. I mean...come ON....are they trying to tell us the top 10 recruits in the country which either go to Tucky or Dook take nothing? What a crock of pure shit.

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 I think the ACC has huge influence over the NCAA, especially the enforcement division. That way, the largest academic fraud case in history simply goes away, and competitors not in the ACC get the book thrown at them. Or I should say, ACC members that take Nike money. If you're with Adidas, it doesn't matter what conference you're in- you're public enemy number 1. This is a hit job aimed at our program, and aimed at Adidas. I mean...come ON....are they trying to tell us the top 10 recruits in the country which either go to Tucky or Dook take nothing? What a crock of pure shit.

Very True- -yet the sad part of it is that this is not the end. - -Now that they deemed him as ineligible - -you watch we gonna going to more likely then not be stripped of all games he played last year - -possibly stripped of our conference championship - -and from these pieces of crap NCAA possible land us with a post season ban - these idiots know nothing - - Screw - -The NCAA - - AND THE FRICKEN ACC

If I were Self, I'd definitely get out of college coaching. Seems pretty obvious that he's trying to do the right thing by not playing guys like Alexander, Preston and Silvio as soon as he gets a whiff of something fishy.

@KUSTEVE It's ridiculous. I think the NCAA is also making an example, trying to puff their chest and try to act tough, because this is related to the FBI investigation.

@Kcmatt7 I know we're all upset, but not sure how his life is ruined? Very hopeful he'll get paid for his skill someday soon. Not sure where that will be.

wissox said:

@Kcmatt7 I know we're all upset, but not sure how his life is ruined? Very hopeful he'll get paid for his skill someday soon. Not sure where that will be.

HE IS LOOKING OVER HE OPTIONS

I just read the story on ESPN. My blood is boiling. Not just because we lose a great player, but because he does nothing wrong, didn't even know about anything wrong being done, and the NCAA says it doesn't matter he didn't know, he's still responsible. What an injustice.

@wissox I know it seems like an injustice. I think the second season suspension is over the top. But would the rules be worth anything if a kid could escape sanction when a person he involved in recruiting accepted money on his behalf? That would be free pass. No perfect solution.

I just went back and read about the Arizona mess last year. It was 97,500$ worse than what happened with Silvio's guardian, not coach. Sean sat one game. Ayton, no games obviously. How is this even close to being fair?

@HighEliteMajor I know it sounds like I'm anti rules. But the injustice is more in the inequities in the way the NCAA punishes some and skates on the others. See my post just above on Arizona. Some throw allegations about Duke, and Zion, and his mom, and UNC and their scandal. But we get nailed, and as you said, maybe we get punished too.

HighEliteMajor said:

@wissox I know it seems like an injustice. I think the second season suspension is over the top. But would the rules be worth anything if a kid could escape sanction when a person he involved in recruiting accepted money on his behalf? That would be free pass. No perfect solution.

ya it's the 2nd full year that seems like an over the top injustice to me

Sue the b**tards at the NCAA....

jayballer73 said:

jayhawkcsg said:

But the good thing is that we now know what we have to work with, and Self can adjust the lineup and offense accordingly.
Dunno what he'll do, but at least we can pretend we have a direction and can stick with it.

you would think wouldn't you that they just have to try and get Dave more minutes wouldn't you -- stat to develop him more add that other Big - -got to do something

I think so. I would like to see the 2 big offense used more often, including more minutes for Big Dave. that would help in his development, but also light a fire under whatever small ends up on the bench to perform or run their arse off when in the game (hello QG).

Yea, that second suspended season doesn't make much sense. There's something fishy going on. we don't have all the facts. I feel strongly they are withholding information for some reason. maybe that was agreed upon with KU before releasing their statement. A guess of course. Self IS VERY pissed, which would not back my argument.

It sounds like their enforcement standard begins with "your NCAA career is over" and can be whittled on down to a lesser suspension, which it certainly should have been given the facts involved with only the KU part of the cash flow. I think they are punishing Silvio and sending a clear message to his guardian that you took money from TWO institutions or people with ties to the schools in some fashion. No bueno.

jayhawkcsg said:

Yea, that second suspended season doesn't make much sense. There's something fishy going on. we don't have all the facts. I feel strongly they are withholding information for some reason. maybe that was agreed upon with KU before releasing their statement. A guess of course. Self IS VERY pissed, which would not back my argument.

It sounds like their enforcement standard begins with "your NCAA career is over" and can be whittled on down to a lesser suspension, which it certainly should have been given the facts involved with only the KU part of the cash flow. I think they are punishing Silvio and sending a clear message to his guardian that you took money from TWO institutions or people with ties to the schools in some fashion. No bueno.

I have to agree on some of this - -I really don't think Ku is withholding any info - -just wouldn't make sense for them to immediately appeal and be holding back info - -would REALLY make them look bad to the fans to do that - especially when they are coming out and saying they are appealing and feeling that Silvio got basically screwed

From fran

There are no coaches I’ve communicated with that are surprised by NCAA’s DeSousa decision tonight. Personally, I wish NCAA had decided on this case sooner & not left everyone hanging. Adults ruined this opportunity for the young man.

Totally whacked. If the NCAA wants to just go hardball, banning a player from amateur competition PERMANTENTLY makes more sense than a 2-year suspension. Has a two-year ban ever been been done on a player before for something other than drugs? The only guy I can think of was an LSU football player who supposedly cheated on a urine test.

De Sousa, the NCAA announced, will be required to sit out the rest of the 2018-19 season and for the entirety of the 2019-20 season "because his guardian received payment from a university booster and agent and agreed to receive additional funds from the same person."

From the NCAA's release: "According to the facts provided for purposes of the reinstatement request, De Sousa’s guardian received payment of $2,500 from an agent and booster of the school. He agreed to accept additional payment of $20,000 from the same individual and an Adidas employee for securing De Sousa’s enrollment at Kansas."

Start him tomorrow

so was this the Maryland booster? And he was suppose to get additional payments? I thought they agreed those payments weren't proven?

@Crimsonorblue22 The NCAA isn't a court of law though and they only need enough circumstantial evidence to suspect something happened to issue a punishment.

@wissox But...they're a NIKE school, and there are two sets of rules. One for NIKE, and the other for ADIDAS...

@Crimsonorblue22 i don't care what he thinks during the games, and I certainly don't care what he thinks about Silvio.

@jayhawkcsg The NCAA statement quoted in the LJW article says exactly what you suspected: the punishment for accepting improper inducements starts at permanent ineligibility and can be reduced from there.

The two year ban for SDS says that the NCAA considered the facts as almost bad enough for a permanent ban. It really should not surprise anyone because his guardian was involved in what had to be a slew of transactions to accomplish the several payments and the planned repayment.

I hate their approach of not seeming to care whether Silvio benefitted personally, but this is vastly different from accepting gifts or a training trip or the crap Selby got 9 games for. It involved, if the charges are accurate, not one but two schemes to "pay for play" at 2 different schools. The alleged booster was working to get SDS to KU instead of UMd.

Protecting the eligibility rules is obviously the highest priority of the NCAA--lower schools would scream bloody murder if tens of thousands of dollars were allowed to purchase an athlete's switch in attendance from a "lower school" to a blue blood and all he had to do to get away with it was to send out the 3 monkey emojis.

The fact is, we all hated the safety net of convenient ignorance that protected Cam Newton. So the NCAA got rid of that precedent. Now we don't like the consequences.

Haste makes waste, and our desperation to get SDS eligible at midyear may have hindered KU"s due diligence here. I hope it was an excusable oversight, but as it is, labelling the Adidas guy a KU booster means, I believe, that we may be toast.

As to all the whining about UAz and Zion, give it a rest and stop blinding yourself. UAz was a rumor based on unsubstantiated claims of a leaked tape. No direct evidence, as was essentially the case with the Zion family demand revealed (allegedly) by KT (whose failure to back away from recruiting ZW after that is possibly damning in itself).

I wish people would not be so anxious to point fingers based on suspicion and conjecture. KU has long been the butt of speculative jokes about how we must pay urban elites to come out to farm country to a good, but by no means elite, school. Those accusations have infuriated me. Now we see there may be some shadiness after all, and it is scary. But no excuse to act batshit crazy whining that "Johnny didn't get an 8th hour" like our guy did.

Stand up, face up, take it like adults.

@mayjay Any precedents for a two-year suspension in this situation?

@mayjay I thought the 20$ was to pay the Maryland booster back. I also thought KU said when we filed paper work that ncaa had agreed the 20$ had not been proven.

Mason and dg aren't exactly urban elites, and Lawrence isn't exactly farm country. Sorry that bothers you.

@DanR The best precedent I see was Bowen, who tried to get them to do his as basically a one year ban. He was made inactive before ever playing for UL, and transferred to SC in January that year. SC tried to get him ruled eligible after the standard two semester period for transfers (i.e., at midseason his soph yearl -- essentially trying to get credit for not playing his freshman year. The NCAA said being held out wouldn't matter, and he would be out his full soph year. So he entered the draft after freshman year after all.

The Bowen case seems really close in severity given that his total time sitting after eligibility concerns were raised would have been exactly the same as SDS--2 years bench time. SDS, of course, actually played his freshman year, which I think greatly hurts his case.

Wasn't Selby paid like $6000 and only had to sit out for 9 games? Silvio's guardian was paid $2500 and he has to sit for 2 years? I'm all for playing by the rules, I just wish that the rules were consistent and imposed on every D1 school, including the Nike schools.

I feel bad for Silvio. I wish him all the best going forward.

@mayjay as I recall, the NCAA cleared Silvio to play last year.

So they didn't do their job

And that's where this fold up in court like a tent on the NCAA. They can't be a clearinghouse and enforcer at the same time

@Crimsonorblue22 Yes, let's snipe at people on this board who say things that make us uncomfortable.

I heard no rumors about Mason or DG or other hidden diamonds. I have, however, encountered many accusations about claims of KU illegal recruiting going back to Philadelphia native Wilt. I remember comments about Mario's dad, and then there is Danny. Let's see--do you buy Shady's dream? Few people outside KU do. The Morii? I remember all types of comments. For virtuslly every top recruit we have had. Remember a car accident last year we thought saved our bacon?

I am not saying I believe that stuff--only that we cannot defend ourselves successfully by crying a river about equally unproven accusations.

@HighEliteMajor The trouble is for me is that several Nike schools were listed reports including Dook. They have tapped conversations of what Zion wanted and his mom is in a huge house all the sudden. But the neither the FBI or NCAA has the balls to take on Coach K or Nike. That much seems blatantly obvious at this point. At this point we need to drop Adidas and go with Nike that way we can get the classes that UK and Dook do every year.

@DanR The initial eligibilty determination has nothing to do with information subsequently received. Now, if SDS or his guardian ever informed the NCAA about the guardian's shitty discharge of his fiduciary duties, that could be a good basis for an appeal!

Anyway, ask Rose and UMemphis about whether a school can ride an initial clearance into clear skies.

@mayjay never mind my questions. If you're going back to wilt then I'm out of my league

@DanR My point was that other people have long said those things, and I was responding to someone else who brought up our recent AA's as if that disproved my comment that KU haters say stuff.

UNC avoided punishment because they offered bullshit classes to everyone.

If KU offered like a $2500 scholarship to all students enrolled in the university, would they avoid punishment?

Bedore has a really good article on Silvio's guardian, and of course, I believe him.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article225440170.html ↗

@KirkIsMyHinrich Maybe they could save money by just offering it to the "general students" living in the bb dorm.

I just can't really obsorb - - -get it to sink in how the NCAA says the student athlete is responsible for the 3rd party if involved whether he knows anything about what's going on or not. - - How in the fricking hell can you hold him responsible when he knows nothing about what the 3rd parties shadiness is doing? I just can't grasp this. -- This couldn't of come at a worse tie with Hurt coming in this weekend - -these findings and the unknowing of if any further punishment coming could very well be enough to run him off - - -Stanley off - - - Precious Off - -but really bad with Hut here this weekend - -perfect timing by the NCAA - -and umm I don't know possibly laying the screw to KU trying to really screw us good - - grab the ankles boys. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

If this is the case were clearly looking at vacating everything he played in last season. This will get bad for us by the end... Coaching, recruiting, history... Damn

DanR said:

@mayjay Any precedents for a two-year suspension in this situation?

The exact opposite. Austin Wiley got exactly 1 season for getting almost FIVE FUCKING TIMES the amount of money. The NCAA doesn’t have rules, only whims.

And another precedent. Darnell Jackson got 9 games for taking twice the amount of money. Silvio: 70ish games for 2500. DJax: 9 for 5000. This is a kangaroo court.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article225440170.html ↗

Yep, this is the truly puzzling piece of the puzzle.

Fenny, if you believe him, is welcoming the NCAA with open arms, saying he’s got nothing to hide — bank statements open to all.

So the NCAA statement/punishment doesn’t really fit what Fenny is saying. Somebody is feeding us some B.S., or as I said earlier, we aren’t hearing all the facts.

There has to be more to this story. Just makes no sense.

@mayjay Very well stated regarding the fact that the NCAA can only punish on the evidence they have. But I can't help but feel like many others. It's tough to be punished when you really believe that others (Duke, Kentucky, whomever) have done similar things, and, for the moment at least, get off scott free. I agree...we need to take our punishment....but fair punishment based on what has happened in other instances.

I think he is being held responsible for the guardian's Maryland arrangement as well, not just the $2500. So the amounts discussed about DJ, and others, pale in comparison to the $60K.

Oddly, this initial solicitation by the guardian could be the type of thing that leads to a Zion apocalypse--if KT reveals what he knows about the family seeking money before signing with Duke.

@mayjay Time to throw Zion under the bus!!

@Fightsongwriter Maybe a huge tractor trailer. He would probably block the bus, then get replayed on ESPN highlights forever.

Very harsh commentary from Norlander with some new info:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-unfair-2-year-suspension-for-silvio-de-sousa-shows-that-players-not-coaches-or-schools-are-treated-harshest/ ↗

Did anybody read the kc article? Fenny said Silvio didn’t need or take online classes.

All right guys. Time to start a pool. Everyone send a $2500 check to their least favorite basketball team’s star. Hopefully everyone won’t just send Zion money. Of course the NCAA being a fair and just organization will do the correct thing and suspend everyone for 2 years. 😂 this whole process is a joke with no standardized rules. I’d be surprised if the ncaa doesn’t get legitimately sued by one of the screwed student athletes.

"In my 30-plus years of coaching college basketball, I have never witnessed such a mean-spirited and vindictive punishment against a young man who did nothing wrong," Self said. "To take away his opportunity to play college basketball is shameful and a failure of the NCAA."

Can some one remind me what transpired with Silvio last season? We held him out, the NCAA held him out,? I forget, but didn't the NCAA then rule he was good to go or was it a transcript issue and not a money issue? I forget.

@dylans If Silvio was suspended for just this season, would you feel the same way? Do you think Self would have reacted the same way?

@wissox I believe his finalized package got to the NCAA while they were closed over Christmas and New Years. Then it took until the 3rd game in January for his eligibility determination to be made. (Incidentally, Wikipedia incorrectly says he was ruled ineligible fall semester last season for not meeting IMG requirements, but he actually was just still in HS!)

Stop recruiting kids with "handlers".

@jayhawkcsg Fenny is the one full of crap in this case. He's not stupid enough to leave a paper trail of the money he got from Under Armour.

BigBad said:

Stop recruiting kids with "handlers".

I've got good news, KU is still heavily recruiting Precious Achiuwa..

@mayjay Thanks.

I've been trying to figure out how to respond to the whining comment last night since it was directed at me (without mentioning my name!) Do you believe that Ayton's recruitment to Arizona was legit? I just read that Miller was not on tape before Ayton's commitment talking about how to get him here, but he was still on tape talking to sleazy characters about getting other recruits. Of course our coach was on tape with similar discussions as I recall. The situations seem somewhat equal to me. Except the consequences of course. And an NCAA that all the time is looked at with suspicion (see the Cam Newton saga) when it comes to certain leagues and regions seems to be guilty as charged.

But my wife will tell you that I am a whiner too so maybe I'm guilty as charged.

@wissox I’d want u on my team!

@Texas-Hawk-10 u don’t believe anything he said in kc article? Couldn’t some of that be proved?

There is no reason to believe fenny. He took money. He can spin where it where he wants. He failed Silvio, the guy that was supposed to guide him to a better life. Some of that he has done, but this part is an epic fail on his part

BeddieKU23 said:

There is no reason to believe fenny. He took money. He can spin where it went all he wants. He failed Silvio, the guy that was supposed to guide him to a better life. Some of that he has done, but this part is an epic fail on his part

It kills me that Bruno still gets to play.

@BShark

Didn't go to an Adidas school. That helps

@BeddieKU23 Oh I know why, but it's painfully obvious that he took money for Bruno too. You don't get a bunch of kids under your wing to only take money for ONE of them.

@BShark

Yeah your right. You just happen to get 2 nba potential kids under your control. Sure it's all coincidence. It's just like diallos guy. Achiuwa situation is no different from what my friend tells me. The bidding is out there

What a strange "coincidence" that the NCAA waited until Hurt was visiting to announce their decision. They've had months to announce, and they just happen to announce it now. Really? Seriously? Are we the college version of Lemony Snickets, and unfortunate events just seem to happen? They are trying to bury us.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think he's full of half truths and trying to cover his own ass. He doesn't genuinely care about Silvio or any other kids he's "mentored". He's only about what he can get out of those arrangements.

KUSTEVE said:

What a strange "coincidence" that the NCAA waited until Hurt was visiting to announce their decision. They've had months to announce, and they just happen to announce it now. Really? Seriously? Are we the college version of Lemony Snickets, and unfortunate events just seem to happen? They are trying to bury us.

Actually, this could be a positive. Now the Hurts will know Silvio isn't in the picture for next year.

@Texas-Hawk-10 so I guess I'm a sucker! I don't understand why that can't be proved, the online classes, the church donation. My church sends a quarterly statement to me.

@Crimsonorblue22

Even if he did prove it it doesnt change the fact he took money. In their eyes that act alone makes everything else null and void it seems

@Texas-Hawk-10 you could be right but if this case goes to court, you have to prove it. If the NCAA cant prove it, they look silly

@BeddieKU23 which money did he take, Maryland booster money? Kinda confused about this other booster money. How can adidas guy be considered KU booster?

So I read the kusports.com new article about grassola being a KU booster. Not sure how they determined that. That sounds like him being a booster is what can get KU in trouble.

@Crimsonorblue22 booster: a keen promoter of a person, organization, or cause

I think employees of Adidas can be considered KU boosters. They want us to do well so they sell more shoes.

@tundrahok so they are boosters of all adidas schools? Same with all shoe guys?

@Crimsonorblue22

I have the opinion they only proved the 2500 through the fbi trial. They are also holding Silvio responsible for the 20k payment Gassnola said he agreed to pay Fenny which never actually happened. Those two line up with the report. So one actual payment and one alleged payment is what Silvio is being punished for. Sad situation where alleged payments become part of a 2 yr suspension.

Vitale just had a short rant about the NCAA and Silvio on the Duke broadcast.
Of course interrupted by a giant Zion alley oop...
Basically called the NCAA a joke, but only for taking so long to rule.

BeddieKU23 said:

@Crimsonorblue22

I have the opinion they only proved the 2500 through the fbi trial. They are also holding Silvio responsible for the 20k payment Gassnola said he agreed to pay Fenny which never actually happened. Those two line up with the report. So one actual payment and one alleged payment is what Silvio is being punished for. Sad situation where alleged payments become part of a 2 yr suspension.

and don’t forget the “future” payments that Fenny was promised. That, too, according to the NCAA.

@wissox It wasn't directed particularly at you. I was reacting to the automatic "what about..." that seems to permeate every discussion when anyone gets caught or accused of anything. We saw it with Trump (what about JFK? and HRC's email servers?), with the idiot Va governor today (what about McConnell and the Confed flag?), with BLM (what about inner city shootings?)... And on and on. And my major point is that people have said "what about KU?" for years.

Every "what about" may or not be a legit question, but they distract from any discussion about an offense or punishment. My sole concern is whether SDS was treated too harshly--not because I think other schools get treated better but because I think the NCAA doesn't give two shits about individual athletes when they decide to set a brutal example.

Ayton? I have no idea, but I am actually very sure if UAz had consented to the facts we did while Ayton was still in school they would have been treated the same way.

How about😳 no evidence of promises of future payments from a convicted felon to a guardian. Can that be used against a minor kid of the guardian? Or same, no evidence of the 20,000 other than he was going to give him the money?

@Crimsonorblue22 None of those transactions he received are going to be through traditional methods of receiving payments. Fenny knew what he was doing was against NCAA rules and so the money would likely be paid to him through methods that are not traceable by the NCAA like wire transfers under different names that don't directly tie Fenny to that money. Fenny then has the ability to tell the NCAA they can check all his accounts and they'll never find the $60,000 because it's likely in a secret account under a different name.

@Texas-Hawk-10 they don't have to prove it to punish Silvio?

kjayhawks said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 you could be right but if this case goes to court, you have to prove it. If the NCAA cant prove it, they look silly

Why would KU sue though at this point? By the time a jury reached a verdict, Silvio would be long gone from KU. If the NCAA hands out further punishment to KU, then KU could possibly sue the NCAA over those penalties, but it won't happen to get Silvio reinstated because Silvio wouldn't benefit from it unless he's planning on sticking around which is extremely unlikely at this point.

Silvios attorney might do something. Silvio is very young, if he could get next year here, he might stay. Hate for him to end up like Preston, Prestons mom screwed him. There needs to be something done about agents. @wissox and i would be great!

@Crimsonorblue22 The NCAA isn't a court room or the legal system. Due process doesn't apply to them when investigating schools and athletes. With the NCAA, it's guilty until proven innocent. It would be up to KU to prove what did or did not happen. Gassnola's testimony about the $60,000 payment from Under Armour and his attempting to pay $20,000 to get out from that deal are pretty damning pieces of evidence against Silvio's eligibility.

The Cam rule absolutely sucks, but it's the current rules of the NCAA.

The part that's troubling for KU is Gassnola being labeled a KU booster. That's what KU is going to be fighting at this point because that's where the serious NCAA sanctions would come from. If Silvio's punishment gets reduced as a result, that's great, but KU's focus in fighting this will be on Gassnola and his label as a booster.

@Texas-Hawk-10 thx!

@Texas-Hawk-10 is this new about shoe reps being called boosters?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 is this new about shoe reps being called boosters?

I have no idea and I haven't seen anything about why the NCAA considers Gassnola a booster.

This came up awhile ago in some older articles and seems to be the approach that the NCAA is going to take.

@BShark better include all schools

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark better include all schools

Ha! Nike hid it better sadly. And now Adidas is back to normal too.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think anybody who gives a kid money to attend a particular school is considered a booster for that school.

Here's the NCAA definition.

http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/role-boosters ↗

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:

Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.

Once an individual is identified as a “representative of the institution’s athletics interests,” the person retains that identity forever.

I don't think they need to be sanctioned by the university. They are just trying to provide a boost to the school, whether or not they've been asked to.

Jeff Long says that the NCAA would consider reinstatement if KU announces Gassnola was a booster.

Sorry Silvio, kansas doesnt like you that much

Just a follow up, Long was told to say Gassnola was a booster to help facilitate a process for reinstatement

The full statement by the NCAA announcing what they laughably term Silvio's "reinstatement decision" says that the decision was based on facts provided by KU. Whether de Sousa was not a party to the statement of facts would be pretty much the only factor that would allow him to challenge the factual basis for the decision. If he was, his only challenge would be to the severity.

From NCAA.com:

NCAA provides reinstatement decision for Kansas’ Silvio De Sousa
February 1, 2019 6:05pm

University of Kansas men’s basketball student-athlete Silvio De Sousa must sit out the remainder of the 2018-19 season and the 2019-20 season because his guardian received payment from a university booster and agent and agreed to receive additional funds from the same person.

According to the facts provided for purposes of the reinstatement request, De Sousa’s guardian received payment of $2,500 from an agent and booster of the school. He agreed to accept additional payment of $20,000 from the same individual and an Adidas employee for securing De Sousa’s enrollment at Kansas.

According to the guidelines adopted by the NCAA Division I membership, when a prospective student-athlete allows a third party to involve himself in the recruitment process, the prospective student-athlete is then responsible for the actions of that person, regardless of whether the prospective student-athlete had knowledge or if benefits were received. Membership guidelines state the starting point for these violations is permanent ineligibility, but the NCAA staff recognized mitigation based on the specific circumstances of this case when making its decision.

When a school discovers an NCAA rules violation has occurred, it must declare the student-athlete ineligible and may request the student-athlete’s eligibility be reinstated. The NCAA staff reviews each student-athlete reinstatement request individually based on its own specific facts. This decision may be appealed to the Division I Student-Athlete Reinstatement Committee, which is comprised of representatives from NCAA schools.

@mayjay are they saying KU admitted to all of that? Future payments, sorry I'm confused.

@Crimsonorblue22 It looks like it. But whether SDS signed off on that is not known. It does imply from the explanation that the NCAA accepts SDS' story of not knowing. But the FBI actually cleared Bowen, and that didn't matter, either.

So confusing

It doesnt really seem to matter if you prove your innocent. Once a rule is broke it's over. All or nothing

Soooo, the NCAA told us about a month ago that the only way they would consider reinstating DeSouza is if we declared him ineligible, and also we "declare" the Adidas rep T.J. Gassnola a "booster". And like complete idiots, we did that. That way, the NCAA could ban DeSouza for 2 years, and they could come after our wins, conference title, and Final Four appearance because a KU "booster" gave a guardian money. So, we were misled into screwing ourselves to the wall. This was a despicable act by the guardian, and the NCAA, and might be the most egregious act on the part of the NCAA since it's inception. Somebody has the knives out for us, and stuck it in deep. Here is our brilliant Athletic Director explaining his complete ignorance of what bastards he was dealing with:

[

If our conference title, wins and Final Four get set aside, I think Jeff Long should be shown the door.

This is so very confusing to me. Surely we had legal help and this is in writing. Why would this be legal and can they go back on their word, legally? They are admitting it isn't true.

KUSTEVE said:

If our conference title, wins and Final Four get set aside, I think Jeff Long should be shown the door.

Dude calm down. Long isn’t going anywhere and he shouldn’t. The NCAA doesn’t need KU to admit Gassnola was a booster to come down on the school. They have plenty of evidence to make that conclusion on their own, regardless of KU’s actions through Silvio’s reinstatement process.

Can u imagine going thru this w/sz?

To put any of this on Long is Ludicrous to put it nicely. He was likely doing what was recommended by our legal team. He also has in his contract he cant be fired from findings of this FBI probe.

Yup. As i was saying earlier, something wasn't making sense about the punishment and statements. we were missing facts.
That new fact about the "booster" designation adds some clarity. The punishment starts making sense.

I was dumbfounded at first that KU would admit to such a thing (Gassnola was a booster), but if you think about it some more, maybe it was intentional. Maybe that simply focuses the punishment to one person (Silvio), and not the institution (Kansas -- vacated wins, etc).

I sense that our AD is spewing some subtle B.S. as well. Who the eff knows.

What i do know is that we should now disappear Silvio from the program to wrap this up. the longer it lingers, the fewer potential recruits consider KU.

Nothing about this smells right still...

@kjayhawks I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you on this- if you want to shift the blame to the "attorneys" instead of the person who is in charge of the athletic department, then that is your right. But, the fact remains that by declaring Silvio ineligible, and falsely declaring the Adidas rep as a "booster", the NCAA can now set aside every win we had when Silvio played, including our conference title, and our Final Four Appearance. Furthermore, they can come after our program with both barrels, and they most certainly will. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't put us on probation... and probably will ban us from post season play. I don't think many fans have quite grasped how profound this will affect our program, including you. If you're fine with what's certainly going to come, more power to you. But I'm not. If Long had done nothing, we would still have Silvio on the bench. What is ludicrous, imo, is the terrible position he has put our program in.

@KUSTEVE I've been worried about this all along, I agree with all if your statement except that this is on Long. I highly doubt Long did that without input from dozens of folks including Bill Self.

They had to keep this from self and Silvio. Crazy. I still think the legal dept took care of this.

@Crimsonorblue22 "part of it in the dark" from Self and SDS. Is interesting

@kjayhawks that's why I'm so confused. I was why are we talking a booster, Maryland booster? It seemed like it was one in the same person, but I couldn't understand it. So weird.

@KUSTEVE Did you know that our AD actually benefits from KU going on probation? Here's the provision -

"Should the University be placed under any federal, state, NCAA, or Conference investigation leading to restrictions or probation for its football, men's basketball, women's basketball or women's volleyball athletic programs for matters occurring prior to the Effective Date of the Executive, the term of the contract shall be extended equal to the length of the penalties."

@HighEliteMajor which is what I was getting at, Long inherited this mess. He had zip to with it and I’m okay with saying maybe he shouldn’t have done this or that I’m sure there are a gods plenty on his team both interally and out sourced that are telling him just what the hell to do. Not get this really interesting on here but I’ve heard a ton of rumors of Pop retiring and Self to San Antonio as early as at this seasons end.

https://es.pn/2UzQ9S8 ↗

@KUSTEVE @kjayhawks Not to interrupt a blood feud...but there may be a subtle point you guys are missing...and it certainly needs more interpretation:

It could be that the "booster" designation as described was for purposes of Silvio's eligibility this year only, and may have no outcome on past KU games, etc.

I'm no expert of course, but it reads that way. that could mean the NCAA will not go back and punish KU for past wins, championships, etc.

@jayhawkcsg Let’s hope your right, no Blood fued here, I get along with @KUSTEVE fine. We just disagree.

@HighEliteMajor I'm really at a loss to wrap my head around it once I heard Long's explanation. I thought it was really weird when we all of a sudden decided to declare Silvio ineligible. And the Adidas rep suddenly becomes a "booster". And that's what Long thought would get Silvio declared able to play? What that did was allow the NCAA to take away our victories from last year for using an "ineligible" player, and it will allow them to put us on probation because a 'booster" gave Silvio's "guardian" money. So, we now will be blamed and held accountable for the 60,000 that our "booster" paid to get Silvio to play Maryland. As crazy as it might seem, the only person that comes out smelling like a rose is Jeff Long. You might be on to something.

@kjayhawks Ha. good.
Yep, let's hope nothing else comes of this crap. doubtful, but fingers crossed.

@jayhawkcsg but if it's just like a hypothetical, not a true statement, and all parties know it isn't true, why do we have to do it.

@Crimsonorblue22 No clue. Stupid lawyer crap most likely. It's either that or our AD is the dumbest AD on the planet. I prefer to think he's not.

So called felon rep not legal booster, said he was going to give fenny 20,000 to pay off Maryland booster. He didn't even give him money. Low down felon, who now is known as a ku booster just said that, never gave him money, right.🤔?

@KUSTEVE You could be right, I’m just not sure Long needs an extension based on that. He already has a crap load of money and is highly respected in this profession. I would think this could very well be his last stop and he would want to end his career with a solid FB and B.B. program.

@jayhawkcsg Don't mistake passion for malice. I agree with KJ 99.9% of the time. He bleeds Crimson and Blue, just like me. To tell you the truth, I hadn't researched what went down at first, and just assumed the NCAA had set Long up. And that's probably true.Then I saw Long's explanation...OMG. i just can't figure out why you would admit the only two things that could put our program on probation...one of which ( declaring the Adidas rep as a booster ) was a lie.

@kjayhawks You're right, he did inherit this. We just don't know how he steered the ship, or his role, after arriving. We only know what we hear.

@KUSTEVE One thing to consider. In legal proceedings, there is a process for a Motion to Dismiss. That is at an early stage. But to get the dismissal, you have to assume the allegations of the other side to be true, and thus the judge would rule that the case cannot proceed even on the alleged facts. That may be a bit of what's going on here. KU wanted a resolution. So to do so, they had to accept the concept of Gassnola being a booster. Essentially, assuming the worst case fact scenario, can we get him reinstated? If Gassnola is really a booster?

That an attempt to provide a possible explanation.

That aside, you don't do that when the adversary can use the admission against you, just as it appears that they did. That is very hard for me to fathom. Now, what I don't know for sure is if the NCAA used that "admission" against us, or if they made that independent determination.

If they did use the admission against us, I'm not quite sure what to say at this point.

Why would we have to make such an admission if it could be the dagger that delivers the death shot?

Long called a it hypothetical. It's not a hypothetical if the "admission" is used against you.

Again, this is just spit ballin' a bit.

When this first came out and read the NCAA statement, I didn't comprehend that Gassnola and the "booster" were one in the same.

@HighEliteMajor i will surprised if we don't have an avalanche of consequences, from vacated wins, titles, FF, to probation in the future. It might turn out to be the single most idiotic response to an NCAA investigation in the history of the NCAA.

@KUSTEVE I mentioned the word "foreboding" the other day. It does feel that way. I will be surprised if the penalty is less than 1) Vacate FF and wins that DeSousa participated in, 2) No tourney in 2019-20, and 3) a loss of a scholarship or two.

And I know you were a bit upset with me when I said this a while back, but this path is why I have feared that our coach might leave. I wonder if the NCAA comes after Self, what they may know, and what Self's reaction might be. Regardless of any of that, a normal person might say he can enjoy life better away from such hassles.

@HighEliteMajor It makes me wonder if this isn't Long's way of pushing him out. Maybe Long has another buddy that coaches basketball.

@KUSTEVE no way

@KUSTEVE You truly never know the motives of individuals. The insecurities. Or what is in their head.

This also goes back a bit to one of my thoughts -- if the NCAA hits our program hard, we should burn it down. Name names, give info, let everyone know where the bodies are buried. We certainly know what Zion got. I'm sure we know quite a bit. I'm sure we can make everyone very uncomfortable. Maybe we tell the NCAA that if they come at us hard, we're not going to roll over and take it.

Of course, I really don't know how this leverage game works internally. KU, NCAA, etc. There may be other things going on that make this implausible.

But I do wonder ...

@Crimsonorblue22 He's spit ballin' too. Just theorizing. I would seriously doubt it. But you never know. It's worth considering. What do you think about the fact that Long benefits from NCAA sanctions?

I think that contract provision is just ridiculous. You allow an employee to gain more compensation for a negative result? A result that he has his hands on, management wise?

Again, I trust his integrity I guess. But folks have done far worse for more money.

And I think @kjayhawks is right. Attorneys have their hands all over this.

But are these the same attorneys that let Self go out and give that silly statement after the trial verdict? That was not written by a (competent) lawyer.

I suggested from the first evidence in 2017 that if the Adidas rep was involved in steering recruits to KU he could possibly be held to be a booster. Maybe that is why I have not been as surprised at what has transpired since. Booster basically means (IIRC) anyone with whom the university has a formal or informal relationship who helps recruit for, raise funds for, or promotes the school with the school's knowledge. Schools are generally held responsible for supervising the conduct of boosters.

Here, there is in my mind no question based on the evidence from trial that the NCAA has a strong case on which to find the rep was a booster upon whom KU relied extensively for contact and influence in recruiting. I think our only arguable defense is that the booster was engaged in unforeseeable criminal conduct.

@mayjay With that, how quickly do dots get connected to the top of the food chain? How could Self be ignorant of all of this if that's really the narrative? I keep thinking of his statement after the verdict.

And I know you'll remember me mentioning this -- I have felt from the start of the prosecution that the real target is the big fish, the pristine leader, Bil Self. Prosecutors love bringing such folks down. The higher the mountain, the harder the fall.

How this would all work between the FBI and NCAA and KU, I don't know. But the former seem to be working together a bit, and much to our detriment.

@mayjay what about the way they presented it to us? Kinda underhanded?

@HighEliteMajor I still don't think that suspicion is correct, and nothing leads me to suspect Self would be a target of the FBI.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think our strategy has been designed to allow us to continue asserting innocence without subjecting ourselves to a "lack of cooperation" finding. A tightrope indeed, and one we may find is not well anchored.

Edit: innocence and ignorance both

@mayjay so what can we do to help Silvio w/ not hurting ku?

@Crimsonorblue22 I have wondered something that is connected to your question: Can Silvio stay at KU on schollie while being ruled ineligible?

That said he could, and practice, hopefully travel w/them

@mayjay Another "target" I had thought of was the NCAA model. A political motivation. I just can't imagine though that this sort of prosecution is solely designed to prosecute a few underlings in this swamp.

@Crimsonorblue22 This was underhanded I think. I have never seen anything (nor every heard of anything) that requires an admission such as this. To admit that the employee of a third party (a shoe company in this case) was acting as a booster, and not as focusing on his duties as employee of Adidas, is outrageous to me. He was acting for Adidas. He could not care less if it was KU or Cal Poly Tech. Insert the name. It was a college that promoted Adidas best. That is much different than a booster -- the guy that donates to the program, etc.

DeSousa remains on scholarship. We can give scholarships to ineligible players. So this talk about this only hurting the player and others skating is baloney. DeSousa can't play basketball. KU can't have him play basketball. Both are hurt. But DeSousa still gets the free education if he wants it (at least this season).

@Crimsonorblue22 Then we should make a big deal about all of our efforts to keep him here long enough to get a degree. Include details of how he worked extra hard to enroll early, what his program is, our work to help this maligned kid in school, his grades, etc.

Basically show that we care more about him as a student athlete than the NCAA does when that is their alleged goal. And dispel any notion in the minds of potential recruits that KU would not stay committed to our own.

@mayjay I don't think that would be a problem! KU fans and support staff love those kids. Ever listen to the senior speeches? The number of fans that stay. That's what KU is all about! I read scot pollards twitter today and he said he came to Kansas because of the tradition, he could have gone where there was 💵

@HighEliteMajor I was thinking the same thing. Burn that sucker down.

STEVE and HEM are in agreement.

The end is nigh.

I’ll give it to you guys. Firing Long is the dumbest idea I’ve heard in 2019. Well done! You set a high bar.

If I'm Self while I was recruiting this past year I was wearing wire. So if John Doe said Coach K is give me a car and 50k, I want more to go to kansas. I tell the NCAA, I got your poster boy, your move folks. I still said we need to drop Adidas right now and go with NIKE, the NCAA obviously is getting a monster check from Phil Knight at this point.

@HighEliteMajor I think you are right. I think our FF gets vacated. Scholarship or two..probably. The one I can't quite decide on is tourney ban. I also agree...burn it down. I don't like being one of the few programs they make an example of...and others get off scot free.

They aren't going to vacate anything. They already over-reached and they know it.

@DanR I hope you are right. But I think the NCAA wants to pound on their chest and pretend they're being tough.

@Crimsonorblue22 I was being facetious. I'm still at a loss how Long thought declaring the representative from Adidas a "booster"was a good idea, or declaring Silvio ineligible was a good idea. It wasn't like we were playing Silvio. If they take away's Devonte and company's FF, I'm gonna be pissed.

@FarmerJayhawk Hyperbole. Knee jerk reaction. Emotional outburst. Over the top. i grant you most of that. However, the dumbest idea of 2019, imo, was to declare a guy under federal indictment a "booster', and declaring a player who wasn't playing "ineligible", so it would give the NCAA grounds to vacate half our season. When the penalties start flying, I think my point will come into focus a bit more.

Anyone notice that ESPN announcers basically agreed with the decision? Fran saying that "most coaches agreed" is pure crap, imo. Both Frannie and Dickie V only complained about the length of time to reach a decision, and never actually voiced any dissent about the harshest decision I can ever remember. Sounds like they were given scripts what to say. That's why I keep saying that ESPN is not our friend.

@KUSTEVE

Swoosh reasons

FarmerJayhawk said:

FWIW, Seth Davis thinks Silvio plays Saturday. Would be a terrific development.

I'd say Seth was a tad off...

Bwag said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

FWIW, Seth Davis thinks Silvio plays Saturday. Would be a terrific development.

I'd say Seth was a tad off...

He was at every step of the way. Not surprising

kjayhawks said:

@HighEliteMajor The trouble is for me is that several Nike schools were listed reports including Dook. They have tapped conversations of what Zion wanted and his mom is in a huge house all the sudden. But the neither the FBI or NCAA has the balls to take on Coach K or Nike. That much seems blatantly obvious at this point. At this point we need to drop Adidas and go with Nike that way we can get the classes that UK and Dook do every year.

Where is your info on Zion W's mom's new, big house coming from?

KUSTEVE said:

@FarmerJayhawk Hyperbole. Knee jerk reaction. Emotional outburst. Over the top. i grant you most of that. However, the dumbest idea of 2019, imo, was to declare a guy under federal indictment a "booster', and declaring a player who wasn't playing "ineligible", so it would give the NCAA grounds to vacate half our season. When the penalties start flying, I think my point will come into focus a bit more.

Good. Because KU can’t fire Long because of this. It’s literally in his contract. So have fun coming up with the millions he’s owed. The NCAA didn’t need us to admit it to find that on their own. If they determine he meets the definition they can do whatever they want no matter what KU says.

KUSTEVE said:

Anyone notice that ESPN announcers basically agreed with the decision? Fran saying that "most coaches agreed" is pure crap, imo. Both Frannie and Dickie V only complained about the length of time to reach a decision, and never actually voiced any dissent about the harshest decision I can ever remember. Sounds like they were given scripts what to say. That's why I keep saying that ESPN is not our friend.

I noticed Bilas and most of the studio guys thought it was insane.

Fran spins his own narrative all the time. Don’t listen to that old fool.

@dylans he likes to throw others under the bus

@FarmerJayhawk so did Chris beard

I did not hear what Vitale said on air but he tweeted out that it was unfair to Silvio:

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Also CBS's Matt Norlander didn't agree with the punishment"

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-unfair-2-year-suspension-for-silvio-de-sousa-shows-that-players-not-coaches-or-schools-are-treated-harshest/ ↗

CJ Moore of the Athletic (pay site) also believed it was way too harsh:
https://theathletic.com/796969/2019/02/02/moore-ncaa-should-have-shown-compassion-toward-silvio-de-sousa/ ↗

In fact, most of what I saw from the media and their reaction was the unfairness and blatant disregard for the student-athlete the NCAA continues to show.

@FarmerJayhawk Baloney. We'll agree to disagree. If the NCAA had tried to claim that a felon ( the Adidas rep ) was not actually working on behalf of Adidas but was a "booster" for KU, they would've been laughed off the national stage. Furthermore, the NCAA had all the salient facts for almost a year, yet they didn't decide anything at all until after we had declared Silvio "ineligible". If they had all this ammo that your ego is telling you they had, why did they wait until after that? The reason is simple...according to the FBI investigation, we were the victims of a fraud...which is why the only way we could be penalized is if we both declared Silvio ineligible, and that the Adidas rep was not actually a rep, but actually a booster. Now, the NCAA could nail us to the wall, which they did. I don't want to keep going back and forth with you, since you aren't even considering what I'm saying. Like I said...we'll agree to disagree.

@Bwag Just 180 degrees off.

@KUSTEVE I think it is very conceivable that the NCAA told Long you have to do A, B, C ,and once we did they used A, B, and C to stab the knife in deep. I'd guess that is why he and Bill reacted so strongly. My hope is there is a way to sue the NCAA in some way and form a new precedent. But I fear that will not save Silvio.

Usually we don't see CS make a statement that boldly. Especially against any NCAA decision. I don't believe we've heard the worst of this yet. And I stand with others who agree... Burn it all down. Don't leave 1 piece of evidence that the NCAA ever existed once it's over.

If we're really dirty, and everyone else is too. Take them all down. Take it all down

FWIW another agreement by a sports media person that the punishment does not fit the "crime"

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Anybody who assists in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes is a booster, according to the NCAA definition. Doesn't matter what their job is, or if their company profits from that decision. Pretty straightforward.

Fran did not say he approved, only that coaches were not surprised. I think coaches have no illusions about how unfair the NCAA is to athletes.

@Fightsongwriter That's exactly what happened. Remember that last year they approved him with the same set of facts. I guess my question is...our AD last year navigated the same slope, and got him approved, and our new NCAA "guru" got the same player suspended for 2 years, and put our results from last year in jeopardy. I understand he brought us Les Miles- no doubt that was a huge get. I just can't for the life of me understand the lack of common sense when the NCAA asks you to declare the kid ineligible, and asks you to declare a felon incorrectly as a booster, and no alarm bells go off. That would be a guy I want to play poker against. That's easy money. It's not like the NCAA could turn around, and declare Silvio ineligible because none of the facts of the case had changed. The only way they could come after him or us is if we had declared him ineligible. And the booster declaration was just absurd. What a steaming pile of stupid that was. No doubt...shame on them for being corrupt liars...but shame on us for being totally ignorant. i have to think that Zenger would've smelled that one out from a mile away. Not old Jeff, though.

I like to watch the show " Live PD" because my neighbors to the north ( Pasco County ) are always prominently featured. One of the famous lines you hear again and again is when the cop says " you know, you can really help yourself here by telling me...". Then the suspect always proceeds to bury themselves by rolling over, and telling the cop a whole bunch of incriminating stuff. Jeff reminds me of a Pasco County crack rat after he just incriminated himself.

KUSTEVE said:

@FarmerJayhawk Baloney. We'll agree to disagree. If the NCAA had tried to claim that a felon ( the Adidas rep ) was not actually working on behalf of Adidas but was a "booster" for KU, they would've been laughed off the national stage. Furthermore, the NCAA had all the salient facts for almost a year, yet they didn't decide anything at all until after we had declared Silvio "ineligible". If they had all this ammo that your ego is telling you they had, why did they wait until after that? The reason is simple...according to the FBI investigation, we were the victims of a fraud...which is why the only way we could be penalized is if we both declared Silvio ineligible, and that the Adidas rep was not actually a rep, but actually a booster. Now, the NCAA could nail us to the wall, which they did. I don't want to keep going back and forth with you, since you aren't even considering what I'm saying. Like I said...we'll agree to disagree.

You're right. I'm not considering it because it's not accurate. The NCAA has a definition of a booster (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Booster%20Guidelines%20with%20definitions.pdf ↗ if you're interested) and they could determine with or without KU's cooperation (see Self's texts to Gassnola) that Gassnola was a. known to KU and b. influenced and/or facilitated Silvio coming to KU. In which case KU's cooperation is completely irrelevant. KU had to declare Silvio ineligible in order for him to play this year. Full stop.

An enforcement investigation is a different matter from the NCAA's point of view than an eligibility investigation. Hence Silvio was free and clear last year, not this year, and KU is probably ok since they explicitly did NOT admit Gassnola was a booster for the purposes of an enforcement matter, just the eligibility review, which are conducted by totally different people. If you're saying KU should've just cut Silvio loose when they found out something could possibly be amiss that's one thing.

KU also was not aware of the shady stuff with Silvio's guardian when he was cleared last year. Otherwise the NCAA would've never cleared him. I for one want an AD that goes to bat for its student-athletes, especially when the NCAA is obviously so far from reality. If they want to vacate half our last season for playing a player the NCAA and we determined was eligible, fine. They'd better be prepared to vacate half of teams seasons going back to John MF'ing Wooden.

@FarmerJayhawk Great post. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree then, if the NCAA could've done this at any time. I was thinking Long's actions were the lightening bolt that caused it. I just can't figure out why the NCAA would ask us to declare Silvio ineligible, and the Adidas bag man a booster in the first place. Isn't that walking us to the slaughterhouse?

KUSTEVE said:

@FarmerJayhawk Great post. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree then, if the NCAA could've done this at any time. I was thinking Long's actions were the lightening bolt that caused it. I just can't figure out why the NCAA would ask us to declare Silvio ineligible, and the Adidas bag man a booster in the first place. Isn't that walking us to the slaughterhouse?

Never work with the NCAA is the answer.

The NCAA is traveling a slippery slope at this point with coming down hard on some while ignoring other obvious infractions. Over half of the Billions that they take in each year is made in the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament. If it turns into a who can rat whom out fest, there won't many teams able to play in it. A former D1 assistant was on ESPN radio a few years back, guy had worked his way up from small schools and D2 to a Mid major D1 program. He said that if any coach said there was "free" recruit he was flat out a liar.

@BShark Yahtsee. I don't begrudge Long trying to help one of our athletes in any way. But, the bottom line is going to be the results. After I thought about, it occurred to me that I was selling Long's ability to facilitate way short, and i was looking for a villain other than the NCAA. No way would Long have complied with the NCAA request without the express consent of our Hall Of Fame Coach. I'm sure they weighed the possible downsides, looked at other recent similar situations, and concluded it was worth the risk. And they pushed all in. I can't fault them for trying everything possible, but I can fault them for ever trusting the NCAA. So, I'll cede our side a "shame on them" without the hypercritical review. No doubt this entire episode feeds my worst fears about the NCAA ... 2 years suspension. Sexton gets a game.

Dropping the RPI for a new cockamamie rating system that had us rated 20th BEFORE we lost to Tucky and Tejas. And that's with the number 1 RPI rating, the 3rd hardest non-conference schedule in the country, the number 1 overall most difficult schedule in the country, and 3 wins against the current Top 10, including the only team to beat number 1 Tennessee .... my inner "jaybate" is going off the Ricter scale. The powers that be in college basketball don't seem to be doing us any favors.

@KUSTEVE They prob jsut made the new system because people were tired of us getting a 1 seed lol.

I suppose it's good that opposing coaches and the commentators are getting on the NCAA about the ruling.

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I tend to lean towards what Sam is saying here, which is not good.

@Woodrow then don't lean that way🤣 speculation, Kc star🕳

Big Dave working hard!

@Crimsonorblue22 Sam is pretty fair. He’s a damn good writer too.

@Crimsonorblue22 - I was unable to catch the game today. How did Big Dave look on the court?

@Gorilla72 got some boards, didn't really screw up, 2pts? Had a hard time scoring. Played smoother! Not so herky jerky. Didn't play as much 2nd half. Think we all saw why he isn't playing as much, but he got some good minutes!

@Gorilla72

Definitely did what we needed. He is so sped up still. Rebounded, blocked a shot, effort is never a question. Didnt get in foul trouble. Mitch stepped up huge

Does anyone know and or seen if KU has actually submitted the appeal for Silvio. I know when Mizzou appealed their sanctions that their AD sent a tweet out and announced it. I just haven't seen or read anything about Silvio's.

Also, this might be over thinking it but I wonder if the school was waiting for the sentences for the men involved in all of this. Those guys got 6 and 9 months. The school could then say it is insane that while Silvio is not in jail he is basically serving a 24 month sentence... Like I said I am probably over analyzing it, but I guess anything in the shit show is possible.

If they have submitted an appeal, we underlings will never know.
KU has been very secretive about this kind of thing previously.
Self talks in riddles.
I speculate he's here for this year to keep the program's grades in good standing, then gone.

jayhawkcsg said:

If they have submitted an appeal, we underlings will never know.
KU has been very secretive about this kind of thing previously.
Self talks in riddles.
I speculate he's here for this year to keep the program's grades in good standing, then gone.

Self isn't going anywhere - unless this turns out really bad and the University let's him go - -other then that = =he is right here