Self isn't going to take a chance. There is obviously a lot more to it than just the car with Billy. Looking back it's pretty easy to assume Self had a pretty good idea Billy wouldn't be eligible when he pressed to get Silvio here.
BShark
33646 posts
I'm sticking with next year. I like him a lot though.
dylans said:
Lots of posts next year, but not much size unless Dok comes back.
Eh, enough size. Silvio would probably start at center. 6'9'' 245 isn't as big as Doke but will get the job done especially in college. Dedric and Dave also 6'9''. You don't need a 7', it's just nice lol.
@BeddieKU23 Silvio to be ineligible next year somehow. That's about what I'd figure at this point. :joy:
But yeah the best part about this class is we didn't have to sign any risky players. Knocked it out of the park.
Givony's twitter, not complimentary of Billy at all: https://twitter.com/DraftExpress ↗
He also had the same thought: Billy Preston yet another player caught up in the FBI/DOJ NCAA scandal. Paper trail leading back to adidas was likely too much for Kansas to risk considering the limited reward.
It's just speculation but unless KU ever puts anything out there (which I doubt) we will never know.
BeddieKU23 said:
I for one could care less about his story.
Now we wait til the big dave saga starts. Odds are he's not as good of character as we think? Hopefully kidding when I say that
I know you are joking but he seems like a good kid that plans to be here 4 years. Haven't read any of the crap I read about Diallo, Alexander or Preston leading up to and after their commitments...
BeddieKU23 said:
WOOOOO. Byeeeeeee
The best part is now the roster is finally set 100%. No more guessing, Self knows what he has to work with the rest of the year.
Someone on 247 nailed it. Sexton playing at Bama, Bowen who was named for taking 100k from Louisville enrolled at South Carolina.
At least KU did the right thing not playing him.
@HighEliteMajor Why was he choosing between Adidas schools and there were rumors that he got paid? I mean there are almost always rumors about that but his definitely had the vibe. We were talking about how he might be trouble when we got him.
I don't think KU did anything wrong or was involved in paying him though.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Not surprised at all at this point. Maybe now that it's over, we'll get to hear the full story.
Doubtful but it would be nice.
HighEliteMajor said:
Perhaps the biggest disaster of the Self era regarding a recruit. But we are better to have closure. And Self took action to get DeSousa in and eligible to mitigate the disaster. Now, let's play ball.
It is good to know that "BC Igokea will keep raising." We will all be watching, I'm sure.
Yep, it's obvious that Self knew. It would appear it goes to the Adidas scandal but KU wasn't directly involved. Note that 3/4 of his finalists were Adidas. What a mess.
At least it's officially over now.
Statmachine said:
Kansas
Kansas is losing its best player, point guard Devonte’ Graham, to graduation. The Jayhawks are losing their best shooter, too, in fellow senior Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk. In their place comes a wave of transfers and impact freshmen who should give Bill Self the ability to play with a ton of lineup combinations.
Point guard will be handled by Charlie Moore, who hit 35 percent of his threes as a freshman at Cal last season. Devon Dotson — the No. 26 recruit in ESPN’s rankings — is coming aboard, too. Dotson is another shorter guard who wins with skill and toughness over size.
Malik Newman (35 percent from three) should be back at shooting guard. He’ll be joined by five-star recruit Quentin Grimes, who has a reputation as a crafty three-level scorer. There’s also Marcus Garrett, a long-armed guard who has been up and down in his freshman season and has hit only 5-of-26 shots from three.
At the forward positions, Kansas can choose from Memphis transfers Dedric Lawson and K.J. Lawson, Arizona State transfer Sam Cunliffe, and potentially Lagerald Vick, though it’s possible he turns pro. Neither of the Lawsons is a great shooter, but Dedric in particular can be a stud. At 6’9, 230 pounds, he averaged 19.2 points per game for Memphis last year.
Kansas’ frontcourt is currently paper thin, but that could change next year if Billy Preston finally gets on the court and Silvio De Sousa is ready to contribute. Udoka Azubuike is expected to return as starting center.
Kansas did well with Andrew Wiggins and Josh Jackson, and it would do well with Williamson, too. The fit alongside the Lawson brothers seems a bit awkward, but the best players will play. Williamson would be great in Lawrence.
He isn't picking KU.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Newman doesn't have to be gone though. KU has 3 incoming players right now and 2 outgoing seniors. Preston will not be back because I don't see him ever getting eligible. If that happens, KU will be insanely deep and could legitimately go 11 or 12 deep next year. There's going to be a couple of players good enough to be rotation guys at KU next year who aren't because of the depth.
If Azubuike is back, I would expect McCormack to be the odd man out when the front court rotation is cut. In the back court, I could see Garrett and Charlie Moore getting the short end of the rotation minutes. That still leaves 2 other guys, possibly Lightfoot and Dotson getting left out of the rotation as well when Self trims it to 8 next year.
Yeah, no way Preston gets eligible at this point.
Agree on McCormack as well. Even if Doke isn't back I don't think he will play a ton.
Garrett is ahead of Cunliffe right now. Do you see that changing or are you figuring he is player #12 or #13?
Dotson is starting he isn't getting left out. He will be the only true PG on the roster. Grimes has the tools and vision but who knows if it comes together for him at PG at the D1 level.
Assuming it gets trimmed to 8 I think...
Starters: Dotson, Grimes, Vick or Langford or Garrett*, Dedric, Doke or Silvio.
Possible regular rotation contributors in order: Silvio, Garrett, KJ, Moore, Mitch
*Garrett if no Vick OR Langford on the roster
I might be a bit high on Garrett especially if his jumper doesn't improve much.
@Kcmatt7 He's very good, legit NBA talent. Bill has closed in Minnesota before as I recall...
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
I would guess Newman and Preston are gone and Doke will stay. I'm not sure about Vick.
If Vick stays that means there will be Vick/Grimes/Dotson/Moore/Garrett/Cunliffe/KJ and 2 of those 7 will see little-to-no minutes.
I think Doke's decision affects next season's team the most. If he leaves, KU is a really good team. If he stays, they are probably the favorite to win it all.
I think KJ will mostly be the back-up 4.
We have one option at starting PG: Dotson. I'd say Garrett and Grimes are more of a PG in the vision and passing sense than Moore.
Bill is checking in with Matt Hurt today. He might just be a top target.
@Jayballer54 Going to see 2 games and having him come in for a visit in the span of two weeks probably indicates we are pretty interested. Definitely have room for him and Langford, these things work themselves out. That said there is almost no chance Langford comes if Vick stays.
I take option C: lock Trae up in the dungeon before the game.
JayHawkFanToo said:
If no scholarships are available, would he be a candidate to walk on, get financial assistance and be on line for a scholarship when one becomes available?
Not really, he has good solid D1 offers already. I think he would go to CSU or Oregon State over walking on here. That said I suspect there will be a scholarship available.
BeddieKU23 said:
Keeping pretty close tabs I'd say..
Certainly indicates at least 1 underclass guard is not coming back right? Of course I could be reading too much into that but you don't recruit multiple guards (Langford, Agbaji) for nothin'
In the article it mention Self wants to see him. If that happens soon as well, things could happen pretty fast I'd think. Agbaji is a real junkyard dog, not afraid to mix it up at all. We all know how Self values that. I think he'd be a pretty good 4-5 year program player/glue guy. Since he is local I'm planning to get out to a couple of games to make my own observations. It does look like he is more than a back-up plan for Romeo though.
Norm went to see Agbaji again last night.
:fire: :thermometer:
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Fisher out for year at tcu w/ knee injury, sucks for him
Well there goes their season.
He is in fact listed as a RS FR. That changes things. I think he can definitely contribute as a SR now. For some reason I wasn't thinking he had that much eligibility left either. I blame the NCAA for being oftentimes convoluted.
Best bit in it: "I talked to Coach Self. He was very interested in me and what I've been doing," said Agbaji. "He told me he's done recruiting kids just on rankings and all that. He wants tough guys that he can rely on and he thinks I can be that guy. He also said he'll get out to see me play soon," added Agbaji.
Fluff article on Agbaji's visit: https://kansas.247sports.com/Bolt/Ochai-Agbaji-unofficially-visiting-Kansas-for-the-Kansas-State-game--113830802 ↗
HighEliteMajor said:
I think Cunliffe is in a tough spot. Next season, assuming we have Vick or get Langford, what's his role? Personally, I'd love to see Vick return. But does that make him the 5th perimeter player in a lineup that is playing two bigs? Not the sweet spot. His opportunity is likely based on need. Vick leave and we don't get another high end perimeter player (Langford). That said, you never know. Dotson, Grimes, Cunliffe, with Garrett off the bench. Or if Vick returns, Sam is better than Garrett possibly so sneaks into the 4th role.
5th might be generous even. I don't think he passes Garrett but stranger things have happened.
Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark If you don't want to read everything, just read the last paragraph.
Their are a couple of things about Newman that bode well for him coming back though.
- I do not think Newman will get a combine invite this year.
- Newman does not have the option to transfer.
If he is so dead set on getting paid that he will go play in Europe next season, so be it. I just don't think his family is dumb enough to go that route yet. That is not the best route to the NBA and they should be smart enough to see that.
Sure, $100k sounds nice right now. But KU has state of the art facilities he gets to practice at every day. The competition he goes against every day in practice is preparing him for the NBA more than it would in Europe.
If he leaves to play in Europe after this season, that is his family giving up on him ever playing in the NBA. But people have done dumber things. Even if his future is in Europe, the year he has had this season is not one even European teams would be overly impressed with. He wouldn't be able to fetch the type of money he would be looking for.
But I digress. You are correct in your statement saying that the plan has always been for him to come to KU and play one year to improve his stock. I think part of his problem always has been the pressure to be an NBA pick now. And that pressure is hard enough to handle when it comes from the fans. But when the pressure comes from that inner circle, it makes it so much harder to live up to expectations. I'm hoping this season was a wake up call to his family. Too bad we won't find out for another 4 months.
Eh, I will always read the entire post. Better to do that than to reply poorly because I missed something.
I agree with all these thoughts on paper but will he actually stay who knows. Also is there room for him to stay? Maybe not.
Kid can play, will be really nice as a JR/SR.
Newman and Billy both have an inner circle that wants to get them PAID asap. Which doesn't bode well for returning.
@JayHawkFanToo De Sousa actually said he will be here next season and then "take it from there". :grinning:
@JayHawkFanToo Exactly.
8 is a pretty good number. It lets you play your best players more minutes (and there is generally some amount of separation there) while also being able to rest them.
JayHawkFanToo said:
Aren't "short 1 scholarship" and "oversigned" the same thing? I believe we are talking about the same thing. Even if KU does not sign anyone else it would be short one scholarship unless someone else leaves in addition to Graham and Svi, right? The question is who?
For some reason I read that as you thinking KU had an extra scholarship. Not sure how, whoops.
justanotherfan said:
Mitch Lightfoot has been a pleasant surprise in all respects. He has shown good perimeter touch and has been a better rim protector than I think anyone could have anticipated. I don't think I saw any scouting report that suggested he would be a good shotblocker. This could change the trajectory of his entire career. He could become a starter if he can continue to improve, something I would not have thought possible after his freshman year.
As for why Self doesn't play Cunliffe, Self often shortens his rotation too early IMHO. He's the one in the Hall of Fame, so take that opinion for what any opinion posted on the internet is worth, but I think the streak influences him to win games in January and February rather than develop guys for March. I'm not even sure that's a criticism really, because the results speak for themselves.
I think it's going to be tough for Mitch to ever start, but definitely he looks like he can be a valuable contributor going forward. And it's not that he isn't a good player. It's that next year if Doke is back he is behind Doke, Dedric and KJ immediately on the depth chart (the Lawsons smoke him in practice last I heard and I know it is just practice but we also have full seasons of the Lawsons playing D1 ball to look at). Quite possibly Silvio as well, depending on his development. Silvio definitely has more tools and more of a D1 body, but needs to develop mentally. I think Mitch will firmly be ahead of McCormack though. A lot will depend on who stays after next season and how 2019 recruiting goes. KU is targeting a lot of players at Mitch's position in 2019. NBA level players like Matt Hurt. Of course, KU doesn't always land them, injuries and other stuff happens. That's how you end up with Landen Lucas starting, so it's not entirely out of the question for Mitch, just difficult.
One thing I will note is that if Mitch can keep improving his jump shot, that makes him very valuable going forward.
Gunman said:
Self recruited Vick out of high school. Then takes him as a transfer. Self wouldn't do that for just anybody.
Vick wasn't a transfer. He was a late decommit from SMU when Brown got canned. Then Brown basically funneled him to KU. He committed to KU 2 weeks after decommiting.
JayHawkFanToo said:
He sees him every day at practice, during scrimmages and individual drills and he knows a heck of a lot more than we do about his weaknesses and strengths. If he is not playinmg him, there has to be a good reason.
Yes, I know that game time and practice are not quite the same but I posit that Coach Self knows this as well.
I'm completely on Self's side with this one. I don't usually disagree with Self too often, Jamari was a tough one though...
justanotherfan said:
Lightfoot is not ideal, but without Preston, he was the only option, and to his credit he stepped up. But this is where De Sousa can help the most. Lightfoot is a limited player at this point in his career. So is De Sousa. However, if Self can rotate them in the lineup well, neither Silvio or Mitch will have their weaknesses exposed for extended periods. In effect, their individual limitations can help disguise each other's limits in the long run.
I'm pleasantly surprised with Mitch's defense.
And yes he has had to step up. Just such a weird situation that he might go from needed contributor to deep bench next season. Or he could invoke another Jamari situation. When you have a full compliment of players (as KU should next year) there are too many scenarios to count.
justanotherfan said:
Self is in a position where he needs to give Cunliffe and De Sousa both 8-10 minutes of game action each night.
Then the question becomes, why does Self not play Cunliffe at all in some games?
I wouldn't expect a blowout by any means but a close hard fought win seems reasonable.
Failor is good.
I also like BayLOL, Bayl0re and Scot Drew is a crappy coach.
Nothing like a nice soft weak Drew zone for Self to carve like a turkey on Thanksgiving.
I'd rather have Vick than not, same for Doke. Newman it's been real but he can just go. KU would be absolutely fine with a guard rotation of Dotson/Grimes/Moore/Vick/Garrett/Cunliffe. Honestly one of them wouldn't even play that is so many guards.
Statmachine said:
I love Selden but the point was that he was projected to go in the 2nd round (went undrafted) and has had to fight for a roster spot every year since leaving KU. Had he came back he COULD have avoided that?
Him leaving was a big part of landing Josh. The minutes worked out a lot better for everyone with him gone. Plus he kept getting nagging injuries at KU, he needed to get some NBA money while he still has something left in his knees. Another year of playing in college and who knows what happens, maybe he gets drafted, maybe he ends up in Europe instead if he didn't improve enough. For every Buddy Hield and Draymond Green there are so many more guys that still don't get drafted or stick in the league at all.
JayHawkFanToo said:
If only Graham and Svi leave as scheduled, won't KU be short 1 scholarship even if no one else signs up?
At this time, I don't believe Malik will make it to the NBA unless there is huge improvement; most likely he will end up overseas and he can probably do that instead of coming back, which would free up one more scholarship.
The big unknown at this time is Preston, does he stay or does he go? do you rather have Preston back for one year with one year already in the program (like McLemore) or do you rather have Langford or Zion instead?
Technically no. KU had an open scholarship this year which Silvio has now filled. If JUST Graham and Svi go, they are replaced by Dotson and Grimes. So in fact KU is actually oversigned at the moment. McCormack is replacing Preston though, who yes, will be gone no matter what. Too much stuff just doesn't work if Preston is back plus like @Statmachine said his inner circle wants him in the league next year.
Zion isn't coming to KU. That will be official soon.
Langford would be to replace Vick. The staff is recruiting like there are guard/wing openings which you always have to prepare for the worst case but still, they certainly aren't even looking around at any post players at this point.
Statmachine said:
I still think we could return Vick, Doke, and Newman. Vick is not projected to be a 1st rounder as of today on www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft. I think the support network surrounding him will tell him to stay and try to improve his draft stock. If I were Coach Self I would remind Vicks inner circle that Selden was a top 25 recruit that went undrafted in 2016. IMO he will not hire an agent but will get an invite to the draft. Will he stay or will he go? Only time will tell.
Doke has no outside game to speak of and needs to stay and polish his outside game if he wants to stick in the NBA. Jahlil Okafor is a perfact example of what Doke might look like if he left early for the NBA except he would not have a guaranteed contract or 6 mil a year. Without being projected as a lotto pick his NBA future is sketchy at best unless he returns and polishes his game.
Newman? I cant remember a 3rd year sophomore (5th in scoring) that went pro/got drafted after averaging 10ppg and had sub .500 fg average and a .346 3pt average. Even if he got a combine invite I can not see anyone really giving him a guarantee. He has to come back to improve his stock.
Is Newman going to come back to be a back-up? I think he goes pro somewhere, anywhere. Europe even.
Also it was time for Selden to go, for a lot of reasons. Also say what you will he is hanging around the league. I'd just tell Vick, if you want to come back we'd love to have you but if you want to go start making money that's fine too. Vick's mom is pretty great, I'll miss her too if he goes pro.
Okafor was a much more skilled offensive player than Doke even. I think Doke should stay but of course I'm looking at this from the angle of a greedy KU fan that wants a better team.
Feels so weird to say. I mean...it's Tech...but they are tough and really good.
mayjay said:
Zion W deciding Saturday. Supposedly between Clemson and UK, but SC may have become more of a factor by signing the Louisville bonus baby.
Everyone is saying Clemson but I will never count Cal out until it is done.