It could be worse, I'm a fsu fan and have nothing to be excited about either
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
There are now about 30 insiders claiming Dotson information. Some people should just not be allowed to post on message boards.
If in fact they want him home then why the heck did he give serious interest to KU in the first place. They knew how far KU is from North Carolina. Infuriating
Big Clyde52 said:
@BeddieKU23 Isn't D Mac announcing on Sunday? I think that is what he was referring to.
What kind of news? Sunday Newsworthy?
JAYHAWKFAN214 said:
ku should be getting some news on sunday with david mccormack
what news?
The one that has claimed Dotson to Florida isn't chiming in on what appears to be a Florida fan gone mad. He did say if he didn't commit in the next week that could open the door for someone else. It's clear the Dotson's are taking more time then anyone has expected. Recruiting circles said he would be done just after August. He went on vacation came back and took visits. The hurricane further pushed it out. The Florida visit, now a possible Maryland visit if they decide to do that next week. Who knows. I have no more speculating to make on this one
I don't know how credible the Florida people claiming all this Dotson movement. Seems illogical and there's a whole bunch of other news he/she claims to know about all their other targets going to other schools. Seems very unlikely their top target at PG, SF, PF all said No to Florida on the same day..I'm not buying it but their fanbase is running with some stuff
Like the use of Easy Street, isn't that the same philosphy Sexton and Young took in the 2016 class. Instead of competing with Graham and Newman they took the path to the least resistance. Self pressed hard on both to come to KU. He's done the same to Dotson/Grimes this season. Not illogical to think both take the illogical path again. Marquette is recruiting Grimes with their entire staff, Texas wants Grimes in state, Calipari is selling the NBA dream. We just have no idea how these kids think, what motivates them, how afraid they are of competition.
This is another homerun hit for the staff. Thanks to Billy Preston as well.
BShark said:
David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing...
BOOM
Some sources of Florida now saying it will be Maryland.. Under Armour and his friend/Maryland Commit Wiggins playing a part.. Interesting
If you think about it a guy like PJ Fleck would have been the perfect hire for KU.
BShark said:
I don't think Venables would take the KU job but maybe with a new stadium and if the money was right...
Agreed, Venables will have a big-time job, not a KU type job. But that's the type of coach coming up that would be needed to turn the football program around. Beatty has laid the ground work and done a great job building from the ashes.
Charlie Moore has to be a factor in this. Dotson sort of "blew up" this summer comparably to what recruiting scouts thought of him coming into the summer. He was hovering in that Top 50 range, now he's top 25ish.
He knows he's good, people have noticed and he's going to go somewhere where he can start from day 1. It's not just coming in as a freshman and having the spot to yourself, its the what if after as well, if Dotson isn't NBA ready after his freshman year he wants the spot as a Soph etc. That way if Florida recruits other PG's he knows he has the upper hand against them. At KU there is no telling if Moore could improve to the point where Self plays him over Dotson or pushes Dotson for playing time. What if Grimes signs as expected. I'm sure the Dotson family is aware Grimes is likely ending up at KU where he takes the SG spot or secondary ball-handling position. I had thought there was room for everyone but its clear, at least to me, Charlie Moore is part of the reason Florida has been able to gain the upper hand.
HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I'm not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment -- more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
Yes I do, I remember, faintly, stating such after we landed Moore out of the blue. Maybe I'll look to find it. Maybe I'm reaching for straws with that statement but if Charlie Moore wasn't on the roster wouldn't KU have unlimited playing time to sell at both a starting PG spot and a backup position to the Elites?
All things being equal between Florida & KU in his recruitment, Florida has a graduating PG with just one other PG on the roster, an incoming freshman ranked #256th. KU has a graduating PG and a transfer, Moore was a Top 100 kid in 2016 who started as a freshman at Cal. It's not out of the realm to think the Dotson's think he's in line to start at KU next year which limits his potential as a freshman. The Dotson's have made it clear they want the ball, not to be the side-show to another.
Further after the 2016 recruiting cycle misses on Trae Young & Sexton for similar circumstances, both felt returning players (Graham, Newman) stood in their way. They both found situations they were guaranteed to start without a upperclassmen in the way. It seems Devon will seek the same situation.
Venables would be a huge upgrade to the current regime. His defensive prowess would immediately make a difference at KU
This should be a high scoring game in WVU's favor of course. Prayers for the KU defensive back corps
RockkChalkk said:
I hope Dotson will look at his college choice as a business decision. One program is way more likely than the other to be always be in the national spotlight, likely being ranked top 5 most of the year, conference champions, consideration for #1 seed, poised for a final 4 run, etc. And with all of that comes mega publicity. Being the quarterback of that team puts him front and center of that spotlight. When you are basically auditioning yourself to get a job at the next level, you should want to be on the big stage.
From everything I've read Dotson and his family have been a refreshing case of a family well aware of their decision and not letting outside influence dictate where he's going. If that was the case Adidas would have locked him up in Vegas this summer with Zion.
The starting spot at Florida is available. Mike White has reshaped Florida to compete with Kentucky again in the SEC. He'll be on TV in a conference that gets plenty of attention. Going to Florida is a business decision if you look at it as well.
I still think the presence of Charlie Moore hurt KU's overall pitch. They probably didn't believe he'd start from day 1 over him given Self's history. If Moore wasn't at KU elite PG's would have signed here
RockkChalkk said:
Immanuel Quickley making his announcement tomorrow at 6:00pm. This has been viewed to be a heavy heavy heavy lean for UK for a loooong time. It will either be KU or UK. While small, I do think KU has a chance. He officially visited UK last weekend. Norm was in town to visit with him today. This is an Adidas kid, not sure if it matters in this case but never know. Its a big piece off the board, we shall find out soon.
He's announcing for Kentucky as fuel for Cal to use with Zion this weekend. This has been engineered in such a way to use as bait. I have no doubts KU pressed hard this week but we would have heard otherwise if he was going to KU.
HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 @BShark Just checked .. he reclassified to 2018. I first heard of him from a friend that saw him play in a tourney in Columbia or Hutch -- some tourney close to KC (can't remember which one). Said he was the best player on the floor.
He's a very good floor leader. Definite starter at the College level. I've seen some of his HS games on TV and he's a gamer. He just lacks some things Self usually goes after (mainly athletic ability). The difference between him and Dotson for example is noticeable to me. But we seem to have lost the Dotson sweepstakes and now sit yet again looking for another ball-handler.
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 well how much smaller could this Campbell kid be then Jacobs? - -saying might be a bit small - -can't be any smaller then 5'10/ -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
With his hair it makes him much taller. Campbell is a twig though and unless he's filled out his body or figured out how to jump higher he's not in the mold of Mason or Jacobs that make up for being small with ridiculous athletic ability.
Campbell was committed to DePaul for a while. We recruited his teammates but not him. I also thought he was a 2019 kid. He's good from the games I saw but he was a bit small for what Self likes. Maybe there is some interest at some point but it doesn't seem like he's trying to recruit himself towards KU either
looks like the word is out. a whole slew of cb's for Dave today
I could see him hanging it up after his contract. It will be interesting to see if there is extension talks in the next few years. If he gets to the final 2 years of his contract without any movement of extending then we can start worrying about this being a legitimate thing Self is thinking of doing.
If Self gets another title in the next 5 years that could also be the icing on what he's planning to do.
The way recruiting is going which he stressed is not getting any easier especially when rosters for the current season are still in flux not even months before the start of the season.
The word around the AAU scene during the summer was the Zion family wasn't on board with Clemson's coach. There's no telling if that guys job is safe if they miss the tournament again. With Zion waiting until spring most likely that could be something to watch if Clemson gets another coach they will like.
I just can't see him him staying in-state but anything could happen. KU needs to put on a show for him next weekend.
RockkChalkk said:
KU Picked up two CB picks for Immanuel Quickley yesterday too. Hmmm.
Would have felt better about those if it was Slater or Meyer. Instead it was the whack job (to put it nicely) from Maryland's site and a Miami insider.
Langford literally lives across the river from Louisville. This one has been over for a while now if he follows through. Some character issues with him were made apparent this summer as well.
sounds great. Big Dave would be a great addition to the team. It also means Doke isn't coming back (sad face)
They are not visiting anywhere this weekend as its his mother's birthday I believe.
If Maryland gets an official visit then we know he hasn't made his mind up. If he doesn't he'll be announcing for Florida.
It's hard to see Bamba lifting up Texas that much. He's a surefire lotto pick but raw offensively. His greatest value will probably be defensively until the NBA can develop him. Smart couldn't win with Allen last year. I think Andrew Jones will be their best overall player. Coleman is a big upgrade to what they had at PG but he's limited offensively. He should however provide leadership and run the offense which he did at Oak Hill for years. There's a lot of paper talent at Texas but I've yet to see a Smart mold it into something that can contend.
Young is definitely a fit at Oklahoma. I don't think they are back yet to the level they had with with Hield but Young is going to stretch the floor a ton and he's exactly the type of leader they were missing last season with Woodard hurt.
The non-conference isn't daunting but I think with the roster we have and the lack of bodies and depth in the post there is no point in having a brutal schedule.
The Big-12 will be the same as it always is. The other big 12 teams will sell their soul to beat KU at home and make the games difficult.
I do think that KU's seed line will have a smaller margin for error. It doesn't seem to matter if KU is a #1 seed or not with the Elite 8 monkey on KU's back right now.
With the way the roster is set up this year we are going to be even more dependent on matchups and no injuries. Just 9 scholarship players and 3 posts is downright scary
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 I'm not going to say one way or another with Devon. - -I'm just going to have that old scenario wait and see approach I guess. - -I mean as is so typical after a visit these guys are going to put out nothing but positive things for their fans to read. - -99-100 they aren't going to put out anything saying that a recruit says sorry but nope I'm am not interested in your school - -your school sucks or negative material like that. - I'm not saying obviously that's what Devon said - -I'm not saying he didn't say a lot of positive things about Florida - -chances are he did -what recruit doesn't?
Almost any recruit even the recruits after they visit KU have nothing but good things to say about the school, it's just the way it seems to go after a visit. - -So chances are he did tell this Insider positive things for Florida. -Let's sit back for a couple of days and just watch - -see, I agree if it does turn out this way - - then I am stumped - -I just don't get it, but we shall see. But for this guy sounds like he thumping his chest pretty hard about something happening within the week? - - umm I don't know about all that. - -Something tells me we STILL aren't in as bad as shape as some may think - might be wrong but. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Actually this person from the Florida site has been talking about Dotson to Florida for a while now (july) and has said its been all but done since August as well. He says he has intel from the staff/travel ball that are close with the Dotson Family. They all seem to take his intel as legitimate there. Everything I see is he's either a coach on the AAU scene or connected in some respect to it and has access to these recruits for firsthand information.
Either the media and recruiting sites overstated Dotson's intentions or Florida was always the favorite and KU being the bigger school overshadowed that fact and we've all gotten caught in the fact that Dotson was not KU's to lose but Florida's.
We probably got a little too ahead of ourselves with the Zion and Devon pairing in Vegas and maybe at the time all the momentum was KU could get him to commit but that settled and KU had Dotson on campus before Florida for whatever reason. We can visit him all we want but it looks at least how I'm seeing things is Florida has won this battle and this past weekends visit likely sealed it up. If he announces soon we'll know its Florida.
BShark said:
Grimes will be a great one, hopefully at KU. Like if KU can't get Grimes (for all the reasons that have already been mentioned) it makes you wonder who CAN they get.
Exactly, losing on Grimes would put a big dent in where KU falls in the pecking order of recruiting at this point
Grimes isn't top 10 because he didn't play on the Nike circuit. Nike just has a ton of influence on everything.
He was sick during the 1st eval period and it wasn't until the later sessions that he proved to everyone that he was still one of the best players in his class. I agree with everything else though, he has the size and athletic ability that is going to translate to College and the NBA..
Agree, its going to be very hard to understand missing on him. Maybe I was little consumed with how confident Slater was saying he was going to KU. I also felt confident in Adidas putting him at KU especially with the way the Zion & Dotson teaming up in Vegas went. But it seems the Dotson's haven't been swayed by outside influence and they are making a unbiased decision. I always knew that Florida had developed a great relationship with him but I didn't think this would potentially end up this way given all that KU has done to land him. Crazy, makes you want to give up on the recruiting all together
Good debate. A few more points.
Has Self ever landed a PG that was a sure-thing 1st round pick without his coaching?
Collins- lack of height and weight concerns always limited his stock. That's why he stayed all 4 years.
Chalmers- wasn't the primary PG at KU, lacked elite athleticism, left at the right time. Did win NBA titles despite not going in the 1st round.
Selby- injury, suspension, definitely can be argued KU hurt his stock. Definitely didn't stick around long enough to fix what went wrong. Unfair for Self to be judged based off him. But I understand he will be regardless.
I can't say he's ever been given the keys to an elite PG talent to prove otherwise. But he took a no-named 3-4 star PG Frank Mason and molded him into a NPOY.
You mentioned Calipari with his success with the PG's and frankly most of them would have been drafted highly regardless of landing at Kentucky with Cal. Cal certainly didn't hurt their stock, if anything he enhanced it. He's 2nd to none in that regard. When he gets guys with a ton of hype they rarely disappoint.
What bothers me is Self didn't hurt Andrew Wiggins stock, he still went 1st. Embiid blew up, went top 5 despite injury. Jackson just went top 5 in a loaded draft. He certainly gives the elite every chance to succeed at KU and keep their draft stock high. So I'm stunned that top ranked PG's choose to go elsewhere despite the opportunity for PT and to be coached by one of the game's best.
Does Dotson have a 1st round NBA future? I don't think he does judging him right now. I don't see the elite size, athleticism, shooting ability that PG's often have to possess to be drafted in the 1st round. He's in the same mold as Collins, Chalmers & Selby, even Russel Robinson. I think he's going to be excellent at the College level and with some development in College could work his way into the 1st round given the right timing.
I agree that Self has a reputation with PG's that is hard to overcome when he's recruiting the very best in the land. Dotson should be a player Self can get though. There has been a significant amount of time and effort placed on securing his commitment.
What is Mike White offering that Self can't? Mike White certainly has even less of a reputation for putting his players into the NBA.
I would say Devon and his family putting his NBA future in the hands of Mike White is a far riskier move then Bill Self. And while Dotson has seen his stock rise considerably from where it was in the spring I wouldn't consider him a 1st round type at the moment unless he magically becomes a better athlete and perimeter shooter. I would also question what Florida has put into the league that stands out at the point guard position?
approxinfinity said:
@BeddieKU23 one more indicator that at some point this season, be it through injury, fatigue, or foul trouble to one of our two legit big boys, we will be all in with the 4 guard lineup again.
Agreed, I think that was part of the message for Svi. Make him a bit quicker, lighter on his feet which will help him on both sides of the ball and give KU some mismatch advantages with lineups. We all know what Svi is at this point but this is definitely a positive in my mind for his game
Svi says he has lost 20 pounds changing his diet up. Significant change that could really help him with quickness etc
Interesting notes on the Dotson front. According to Matt He didn't see the ending of the Florida game (which is the only positive it seems on that front).
Florida insider is awful confident he announces for them in the next week. He says he has ties to the Dotson recruitment. Surprisingly no CB action yet to Florida but I get the sense the writing is on the wall.
Would be interesting to know why there was even information leaking saying he was done to KU in July/August if in fact that ended up being false. Information like that is not helpful to anyone and just creates the sense that KU has missed on yet another target they went for. Maybe he was Florida's all along with the PT available and the relationship they formed with the staff and the KU talk was junk. In the end a majority of these kids just don't want to live in Kansas no matter how good the facilities, the coach, the team, the history etc..
Further I'm not sure what Self has to do to land elite point guards at this point if Dotson goes to Florida. Shouldn't Frank Mason's success have changed things? It seems as though KU has to literally have zero PG's on the roster for that to happen. Disappointing if this happens.
If you think Robinson's situation is a mess right now, wait until you see him try and convince a NBA team to gamble on him. Without the maturity and support system in place we will likely never hear much from him.
NC ST landed a top 100 center yesterday. Important because big dave visited there. Have to think that's another positive sign
How are they the leader if there is no official visit scheduled to OSU at this point
He's really down to 1 school but these kids have to play it out
Agree to an extent on King. He's kind of a jack of all trades type wing. He's actually the type I would expect to see land at Villanova. I think he's an excellent catch and shoot type, rebounder and defender. Those traits fit at KU but if we are going to keep recruiting the uber elite wings maybe he isn't the best fit in that light.
I think the most interesting part of King's recruitment has been that Calipari turned him down after he basically begged them for an offer this summer. King played for Cal during Team USA ball and still didn't impress Cal enough to get him that offer. That could be because King figures to be a multi-year player in College at a position that is routinely producing OAD types every season.
I think King's ranking will even out a bit more across the platforms and he'll end up in that 20's to low 30's range. It seems if Oregon has his attention and if he doesn't land there I'm not sure where he'd go unless KU was out of the Zion race and had a chance to get him in the spring..
Grimes has cut Arizona from consideration.. that's huge
I haven't seen McCormack mention Oklahoma St since the summer. It doesn't sound like they are getting one of his official visits either. So unless something changes it sounds like them hiring his AAU coach didn't end up having a big effect on what he's going to do. The CB's will change and they could go KU's way after his official...
That's another thing I didn't mention was Oak Hill. We got Preston last year from there and while it sounds like Billy won't be here when David would be it doesn't hurt to have a connection to one of the premiere HS teams in the country.
McCormack is coming back for late night not even a month after unofficially visiting here. I think KU has been able to get in his ear about Doke's pending NBA decision and the opportunity for him here. He's an Adidas kid as well which helps.
Steve Smith, his coach for Oak Hill said he enjoyed his unoffical here and that NC St & Xavier were also schools he was considering with Duke/UCLA also trying to get visits (if he makes it that far). This was his quote " I don’t know if he’ll go past September, he’s getting kind of antsy and I think he likes a couple schools."
If NC St & Xavier are the biggest competition then we have to like our chances. The way he's changed his body and has started to play through the change he's made he's got NBA upside down the road. I think KU with Hudy and its history with bigs is the perfect spot for him. There might even be a starting spot for grabs when he gets here..
I have no disagreement with your optimistic approach to what the roster may look like next year. My concern for next year isn't the sky is falling, I'm closer to the status quo then the ledge.
I just have concerns about replacing a starting 5 and the detail that goes with that. I also think KU could land better talent at positions it normally has NBA talent. All 3 transfers come with limitations in some way. Dedric would be in the NBA if he didn't but that's beside the point. Moore is always going to be playing against players bigger then him and must become a more efficient shooter/facilitator. KJ has to establish what position he's going to play and continue to improve his shooting.
If Self is able to land Zion and Grimes then I would have very little concern going forward. Both of them have reputations that speak for themselves. Dotson is a cherry on top kind of recruit for KU with Moore in the fold. I thought he proved all summer he was every bit as good as any PG in the class. Big Dave McCormack would give KU great size to pair in the post with De Sousa and the Lawsons/Lightfoot. I also think he's starting to realize how good he could be after reshaping his body and learning how to play to his strengths. Hopefully any concern I have is alleviated as we find out who's joining and who ends up leaving.