🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Maybe I'm in the minority but I am scared about next years team. We picked up 3 transfers so we know Self is aware of the fact that a lot of talent is likely leaving. Anytime a team is faced with possibly replacing its top 6 players there is going to be concern. Of course we happen to have a coach that is well versed in roster turnover and cooking a whole new batch of players is a strength of his. But this could be the biggest reload in some time and that cannot be overlooked. We should have nothing to worry about given Self's track record but every coach eventually gets into a situation that becomes hard to overcome and this certainly looks like one of those situations right now.

When games start its going to be important to see how ready Garrett is after showing promise in Italy. He could be the guy we need to make the biggest leap depending on how things play out.

I think KJ is a little better then I might have thought, his brother certainly has the bigger reputation but we should get a ton of production/value from both. I just hope Dedric gets his head on straight and takes advantage of the situation he's now in because he certainly has the potential to be Big 12 POY and a All-American candidate.

I think Moore would be a perfect backup to an elite level recruit (insert Dotson). I'm just not sold on him being the type of player we need with this group. I think Moore will be better in years 2 & 3 at KU then just expecting him to be the type of guard KU has gotten used to having on the floor. I would love for him to change my mind though.

Beyond that there is doubt Vick & Doke will be back. Either of the 2 coming back would be huge and if both decided to return then KU definitely has the foundation for another championship level squad. But losing both man that's tough.

I don't care how people spin it this team absolutely needs recruits such as Dotson, Grimes & Zion to keep up. That's why Self has a chance with all 3 of them because the exodus of talent leaving is so great. Normally we get 1-2 really good recruits and settle for guys that are willing to play behind more established veterans. The wrinkle this year is we added 3 starter level transfers, not just rotation pieces. Self has to add elite level pieces, its not a "we're fine" without them situation

@Hawk8086

Self is certainly catering to what guys want to hear and I think that's a positive step with how things are today in the recruiting world. I don't blame him for putting that kind of talk out there. Grimes has the talent to be a lead scorer type as a freshman given what is leaving after this year. If I'm a recruit and a HOF coach is saying "hey your good enough to be our best player next year" that would certainly raise my interest in going there. But I'm not these 17-18 year old kids that take so many other things into consideration.

I'm guessing but I think Zion coming for Late Night had something to do with the Grimes situation. Zion is the center of attention that night and I can imagine the staff wants to bring in Grimes when they can focus solely on him. You don't want him feeling like he's not getting the attention he wants. The other way to look at this is negatively especially coming off an in-home visit and he's canceling a visit? Grimes has canceled visits to KU a few times now since the summer and has constantly deflected the media from getting him to say KU is the favorite or he's a lean/lock to KU. Enough of that negativity though. Optimistically we hope Grimes is coming back at a later date for a visit and everything pointing to KU being his destination holds true..

In the same light, it might have been better to have Zion here a different weekend but we all know the Zion camp is running things so if they say they are coming you just roll out the carpet for them. With a player like Zion maybe its best to have your big showcase night with your top prospect there to see it. The exposure he'll get will be 2nd to none compared to a normal football weekend (where he just went to Clemson and KU is no Clemson). The more I think about it, Zion will get to see how much Lawrence is centered around the BB team and that can't hurt things. Honestly, KU should be trying to get Dotson on campus for another unofficial for LN. The chemistry between Zion & Devon would be easy to sell with them both on campus at the same time.

debby downers

the reality is Central Michigan was 20 points better

@JayHawkFanToo

Agreed, he's proven already that he can't coach his teams how to score the ball even after having 2 1st round picks in the post on his team. Bamba will be the third. If the summer games have any foreshadowing they will suck again

RockkChalkk said:

Devon Dotson's visit to UF this weekend has been cancelled.

It should be good news but we know this prolongs his announcement now if he sets up a return visit...

mayjay said:

@BeddieKU23 With Baylor lately, the surprising thing is that more of their football team wasn't transferred--in paddy wagons.

Thanks for the friday morning laugh

DoubleDD said:

BeddieKU23 said: There have also been cases where if a coach leaves or an investigation/scandal rocks the school (such as Baylor or Penn St) those kids usually get free reign from the NCAA.

Yet isn't that for new recruits coming in, and not for kids that are already in the program?

I don't know the answer? That's why I'm asking.

Surprisingly a low number of players already on the teams decided to leave from both situations. I think Penn St had 15 guys leave and the NCAA permitted that schools could use 2013 scholarships for those guys. Baylor, I didn't see much on current players that left, all the news out there was about incoming recruits who left. Good point

DoubleDD said:

Michigan looked pretty tough last weekend. That defense was, was, was, sparkling.

Defensive coordinator is really darn good at his job. Had a stingy as heck d at Boston College before going to Michigan

Big Dave is not a fit in Keatts style of play so I'll be shocked if that's where he thinks he's best suited to go. Looks like KU and Xavier are getting follow up official visits and maybe will end his recruitment after that. Xavier definitely has some playing time available for him with Kanter/O'Mara being Sr's and only 1 other Center on the roster. This should be a battle KU can win especially with the Late Night visit.

@DoubleDD

There are already rules for transferring in-conference which normally ends up being a sit-out year. Some have found ways around it through the graduate transfer route recently, a few Big-10 players have done this (most notably Skip Albrecht from Michigan) and the most controversial one of them all being Cameron Johnson this spring who went from Pitt to UNC but not without months of appeals, media attention etc to get there. His situation was especially interesting considering he had multiple years of eligibility left at Pitt, graduated early and wanted a new situation. The moral of the story is, it can happen but the painful process of appeals and kickback from schools becomes difficult to stick with. They don't get what they want without paying the price emotionally.

There have also been cases where if a coach leaves or an investigation/scandal rocks the school (such as Baylor or Penn St) those kids usually get free reign from the NCAA.

Normally when a coaching change occurs kids are given their release from the LOI without a lot of resistance but the sit-out year still applies to them. That is where this system is the most unfair. Both the coach and player sign contracts which we've established. I can't think of one coach who's left a school for another and couldn't afford to payback his former employer (if that was the case Counzo Martin would be broke @Texas-Hawk-10).

The one thing I don't have an answer for is the academic side. If a kid transfers to a new school what are the chances his credits go with him to this new school? What are the chances he can graduate in 4 years? Is this an achievable goal for everyone, not just a %. Honestly that probably is the biggest reason the rule will likely never change. I don't know if the sit-out year is competitive balance or just kids need the year to catch up academically and adjust to whatever academic structure is in place there. Whether the academic side and the athletic side are two different entities, at the heart of this the kid is a student first, athlete second.

mayjay said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 A "penalty" (that the new school pays) is not the same as being forced not to coach for a year. That is a slight deterrent at best. Students actually do get penalized if they transfer.

Really good point and using the line "slight deterrent at best" is the PG version of reality.

There really is no deterrent for coaches leaving a school because otherwise we wouldn't see this coaching carousel that happens every single year in both Football and Basketball.

Money, big whoop, these coaches are often the highest paid state employee (Self) to coach kids how to win games! "Oh, I owe my former university a million dollars, take it out of my next million(s) dollar contract". If Coaches had to sit a year from coaching you would see very little turnover from year to year. You'd also have a lot of angry fans, boosters etc that want the current regime gone. Can't imagine that fits the model or pressure that these cash cow College's are under to have the best product on the field.

The playing field isn't fair, level, whatever we may call it. I'd like to know if there is another profession out there that mandates you take a year off from doing what you want to do just because the apple cart is scared of competitive balance (another misconception that doesn't exist).

I don't see this passing but I'm not against it either in theory. Mayhem would occur

Vick is going to have a big year. How big I don't know but I have no doubt we'll see more consistency with him this season. It's natural to expect him to be even better going into year 2 of being apart of the rotation/starting lineup. He's the one wing/guard that is going to be asked upon to step up and fill different roles that departed with last years team. This should be the year the potential turns into production. If he's not a double digit scorer this year I'll be shocked and I'll be shocked if he's not a combine invite as well as saying I bet he's a combine riser when its all said and done. Big year for him. If he's still not consistent enough like Devonte's Jr year then he comes back and is the leader of the squad the next year. A great problem to have if you ask me

@BShark

They also signed Smith who's a Top 40 big and it looks like they relied too much on the Fernando connection here. I can understand them being upset but wow that's a salty bunch that has gotten way ahead of itself in where it stands in the pecking order of College Basketball. KU flexed its muscle here with De Sousa and I'm glad the kid fell in love with everything KU on his visit.

@BShark

The Adidas part of this I think makes it even more assuring. I think we'd definitely see Self on more kids if they needed to be

Senior night for Devonte and Svi against Texas on Big Monday. A big spanking for Shaka that night!!!

@BShark

They have a great chance at Devoe and Weaver from what I gather. Of course Florida fans etc will downplay what that means with Dotson but it's definitely significant. I also don't think Florida could have afforded to recruit just one PG with how much of a need they have at the position. We don't see KU getting involved with other PG's at this point which gives me even more assurance the Dotson deal has been done for as long as its been reported by Slater

@BShark

Good point about Gordon.

I'm really excited that we had little clue what was going on with De Sousa until he was already committed. We rarely have that happen nowadays.

It's a great achievement for Self. He deserves the recognition especially for a guy that constantly deflects attention from himself. I think its great that in a week the spotlight will be all about him and not the group of guys he's coaching. And I expect in typical Self fashion that he'll continue to deflect what he's done to this point and recognize others who have helped him along the way. In the end though he's the mad scientist that has taken a history rich program to the next level. He deserves the HOF induction and someday I think he'll be universally known as the best coach in KU history (if he's not already thought in that light). I never could have imagined he would be this good of a coach given his background coming in. I tip my cap to you Bill

After a few days of letting the De Sousa signing settle in, this is just a home run get by Self.

We'll have a Jr Lawson, Jr Lightfoot, R-Soph Lawson and FR De Sousa at the minimum to rotate in the post. We don't have elite size or length but this is a front court tailor made for how the game is changing.

I had some real doubt about who Self would get in the post in this class and he put that to bed real quick. The last remaining puzzle will be the Doke situation and Big Dave. If Big Dave comes here we know the outcome for Doke after the year. De Sousa/Big Dave duo is a home run between development and ready to play now.

@KUSTEVE

I would be the least concerned about his defense. His athleticism and physical nature of playing the game will not allow him to be anything less then an average defender in his one year (wherever that is). I've seen highlights of him chasing down players in the open court for Lebron type blocks or the type of hustle play that Jamari Traylor used to make. He's on the same level as JJ as far as competitiveness and outspoken demeanor and it's hard to imagine a defensive coach like Self wouldn't get the best out of him.

Plenty of highlights against his over-matched HS competition. The good thing is there is just as much video of him dominating the AAU scene where he's consistently been the best player every time he stepped foot on the court in those settings.

I think the biggest concern for Zion will be how his game translates once he faces guys that can withstand his physicality and guys that are at least in the realm of his athleticism. That seems to be the popular opinion about him. Because his natural gifts are superior he doesn't have to rely on skill as much. I don't think he lacks anything that can't be coached, he seems like he wants to be pushed hard and as much as I gather about him he's a driven individual despite all the fame he's gathered already.

There are not many holes in his game at all and while the dunks get the most coverage he's so much more then those highlight reel plays. For a wing type player he was shooting over 60% from the field this summer. He calculates what a good shot is and finds a way to make what he wants to do easier for himself. Once you see this guy in a College uniform your going to look at him and say holy cow that's a basketball player. A guy that he reminds me of a bit is Rico Gathers. We all knew Rico was a physically gifted freak who belonged playing a different sport. He's now with the Cowboys. It's not a stretch to think Zion would have been an elite college football linebacker or an edge rusher with some added weight. He just sticks out at his age and will continue to impress until he meets grown men in the NBA.

@KUSTEVE

He really is that good. Body of a linebacker, athleticism of Lebron James. Unstoppable in open court, NBA Jam type dunker. Past that, he's a very efficient scorer, doesn't force a lot of shots he can't make. Developing outside shot reminiscent of JJ. Competitive player definitely has an edge to him.

Motor and defense can be questioned a bit as he plays overmatched competition in HS. Predominant left driving to the basket, more of a North/South type guy because physically there is nobody in HS that can body him up. Tools are there for him to be very good defensively if he buys in.

His brand is huge already. Whatever school gets him is getting a lot of attention from fans, media, kids growing up that are looking up to him etc. Crazy to think we are in this one for him.

Having only 3 eligible post players on the roster and potentially losing 2 of them probably played a big factor in De Sousa's decision.

The way his body and game is built right now we could definitely see him starting alongside Dedric next season. Unless we land Big Dave there probably isn't going to be a signing that impacts Silvio starting next year

@justanotherfan

There are some videos of a mid-range shot for him. A few highlights of a turnaround hook as well. At this point I don't think either a major part of his offense because he's so big and athletic that he can dunk everything at the HS level.

Really exciting addition!

@jayballer54

If there was something to back the claim of "overhyped" then I would be able to understand why someone would say that.

He is being overhyped to some extent because there are comparisons to some really good players being thrown around like Lebron, Larry Johnson, Charles Barkley which I've seen associated with him.

Athletically and physically he's a rare specimen. I think he is a skilled player at this point that is continuing to improve his outside shot as well as other aspects of his game like not depending on going left all the time.

These type of kids don't come around very often and I'm just hoping KU gets lucky enough to have him on the team.

Kcmatt7 said:

I do not think Vick is going to hang around if we win the Zion sweepstakes.

I think Doke is about our only hope for a returning starter. And that is a stretch. I think we lose 6, but only because we are going to get a monster haul recruiting.

Well said, agree on all points.

The Catch 22 for KU is we may have an all-time great recruiting haul but its at the expense of our top 6 players leaving the team.

I cannot even wrap my head around the chance that Zion lands at KU just yet. He's a superstar that is a program enhancer. I've been high on Vick from the day he announced here but if Vick leaves because of Zion signing here this reminds me of the debate about Wayne Selden vs Josh Jackson. The impact that Zion will have at KU both on and off the court cannot be compared

@jayballer54

It's about time we got someone that wasn't a dragged out recruitment.

If you think about it a good majority of foreign-born bigs that KU has landed over the years have committed without much knowledge to the fan-base.

Embiid we swooped in late, Azubuike was a long-time FSU lean and we came in late there and now De Sousa which really was a weekend honeymoon and now he's committed. I knew we offered De Sousa back in the spring but there really wasn't much information on his recruitment for a while and when Maryland became the favorite I kind of lost track of him. It's crazy that a 5 star talent has kind of gone under the radar on the national spotlight but that is what De Sousa has largely done.

@jayballer54

Being a diehard fan of Florida St football I can shed some light on Florida fans. They are an absolute delusional bunch from insider to common fan. I cannot stress that enough.

Florida is a legitimate option for him, always has been. It's also of note Florida is after other PG's because I think they know beating KU in this one will be hard to overcome. I feel that's a sign they know the writing is on the wall. We'll see I highly doubt Slater would have said KU to Dotson was done weeks ago if it wasn't true

@FarmerJayhawk

Good call on Williams.

The handler that is running his recruitment is the same fella that made Antonio Blakeney go from Adidas to Nike (Louisville to LSU). He's a Nike kid. I can definitely see him going to Oregon if he's open to leaving the state because he fits the Jordan Bell comparison to a T. If he stays closer to home look for Duke or LSU to turn up the heat. Slater has alluded too many times about the "other stuff" in Williams recruitment.

5 seems like middle ground. I really hope Vick and Doke stay after this year but I think the former is more likely then the latter. We'll see I still think we see a big year out of Vick now with the lack of post options which will make his decision to stay or go that much harder. Self is definitely going to bring in a flux of elite talent. A Dotson/Grimes backcourt with potentially 2 Zion's on the wing, De Sousa on the block and possibly Big Dave! That's a heck of a haul if he can pull it off

If you believe 80% of the angry Maryland board, we paid him to come here.

My immediate thought is this is insurance for Dedric. The good thing is he'll be 19 when he steps on campus, physically matured player already. Great job staff on getting this one quick. Have to feel a few others will follow suit now.

Wow that was an unexpected thing. Great to have him aboard!

This class does look like it could be one of the best Self has ever had. Some of that is due to how much we are losing at season's end but this is a class the staff did its homework early to get a leg up on some elite kids.

Dotson and Grimes- They are locks until anything is said otherwise. Both dynamic guards.

Zion & Zion- Williamson is a legitimate option for KU, Griffin will take his last visit to KU and that one seems ours to lose from his comments. I think we are good shape to land at least 1-Zion.

Big Dave McCormack. Getting him to unofficial on his own then getting him back a month later for an official is huge. Billy Preston is probably a big reason he's looking at us having been a former teammate of his at Oak Hill.

As @RockkChalkk said we just need the first domino to come off the board.

BShark said:

McCormack is coming back for an official on Late Night.

Some very positive news there. Seems KU has become a much bigger option for him then we might have thought. The Duke interest seems to be lukewarm at best right now and other then Oklahoma St hiring his AAU coach to lure him aboard KU has gotten the unofficial and now will get the official coming up.

@jayballer54

The biggest development with King is that he wanted UK, played for Cal during Team USA ball and didn't get an offer. So now he goes to his other options. I don't think KU is seriously in it for him at this point. Zion is the priority

Sucks he'll take another visit but it shows good character as well to follow through with what you say. Florida has recruited him a long time and they probably feel obligated to visit and give them a chance seems how they have invested a ton of time recruiting Devon as well. As far as UCLA its all part of the recruiting game.

@jayballer54

Jumpin Jee Hossa Fits have some faith!

Interesting visit. De Sousa was a bit higher in the rankings earlier this year but from what I saw and read he didn't have the greatest summer. He's still a talent that any program would be happy to have but wonder if he plateau'd a bit in his development because he was a 5 star prospect for a long time.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

Well if he follow the visits for Brown and quotes doesn't sound like KU has much of a chance here..

Hopefully he visits.

Weird recruitment. I think he was hoping for a UK offer.

From the sounds of it he wanted Duke as well.

I think the media wanted to make him better then he is. He's got a lot of potential that a College team could untap, the big question mark being how motivated he'll be to develop and how long he'll stay.

For KU I'd take McCormack over him because he's really improved a ton in the last year and David will come into College ready physically to hold up in the post. The work Oak Hill's coach has done with him is a big reason he's now pushing the upper echelon of 4 star status.

Regardless I hope Moses visits as well. never hurts to get a top big on campus in a class that has limited options in the post.

@BShark

Well if we follow the visits for Brown and quotes doesn't sound like KU has much of a chance here..

@jayballer54

Yup Dotson is your boy! I'm high on him as well. I've been on the Dotson/Grimes duo for a while. That has been my prediction since the spring. We'll see whether we get both or not.

@FarmerJayhawk

Yeah Reddish to Duke has been done since forever.

I think your right about Zion.

I think Barrett ends up at Kentucky even though he grew up a Duke fan I see Reddish being in his way as they play the same position

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 I'd almost be surprised if he visits anywhere else. More time for him to work on Zion! Who I think is a UK/KU battle right now. Duke seems to have moved to Reddish (lock) and Barrett, who's pretty open to any school with a check mark.

I agree, especially if the info that Dotson to KU has been a done deal for weeks now. It's also important that he didn't schedule any other visits after KU's either like the Florida trip that has been mentioned so often. I get the feeling this one is a wrap!

RockkChalkk said:

Also, saw somewhere that Dotson has a scheduled visit this weekend at KU, could we see our first big commit of the year in just a few days from now? I hope so!

Yeah I think we see him announce pretty soon after the visit

RockkChalkk said:

@BeddieKU23 No Zion Griffin, hmm

They probably still don't know who he is. A quick search of their database and he's not even in it.

Will affect his composite score but 247 definitely took notice of him and has him ranked where he should be.

BShark said:

@Kcmatt7 He was a frosh. He still needs to play a ton over Nairn. Nairn is PG Jamari death hole. They play 4 on 5 when he is out there. Their front court is RIDICULOUS. Their 4th front court player might start for KU....

Side note: if Josh Langford had that kind of FR season at KU, people would be killing Self. Doesn't seem to even be mentioned with Izzo. :/

Langford will take a big jump this year. I was surprised he wasn't better last season. Just goes to show no matter how good you are in HS most of these kids take time to get comfortable. Michigan St has a scary trio of Soph's and Jackson coming in

Rankings update at ESPN.

Grimes #13, Dotson up to #26 which is just outside 5 star territory.

Zion #2 behind Barrett.

Others: Langford #5 (way too high after his summer and being cut from Team USA)

Keldon Johnson up to 7, seems high but ESPN is guessing he ends up at Kentucky so they can pump up their class.

Emmitt Williams #20, McCormack up to #33 (probably still a bit under-ranked), Jalen Carey flew up to #34 (going to suck seeing him play somewhere else), Jermaine Harris #85, PF who will visit in Early October.