@SoftballDad2011 funny, uni's claim to fame. Nice to see KU fans being civil.
Crimsonorblue22
42577 posts
@drgnslayr thought you would want to know, don't be sorry.
@drgnslayr vleet
@tundrahok I'm 40 miles away, way to close, I'm seeing way to much of Gregg Marshall!!!
@JayhawkRock78 I'm going for wv too. Love turg too.
I saw those interviews, they were having crazy fun! Reporters were not sure about it, funny!
These guys look like the guys that were shooting and dunking the "no ball" warm ups. Loose and fun!!
When Kansas looks good! Game day......
!image.jpg ↗
@FarSideHawk boy does it!!!
@JhawkAlum I thought about that, oubre does get in foul trouble a lot.
@FarSideHawk was that just a coincidence? I bet Self would like this pic! Ha ha
@Shanghai_RCJH let's go w/it!
@JayHawkFanToo better than Kentucky!
Think Turg is ready for huggie? Heard somebody ask huggie why he didn't wear a suit and he said he wasn't a banker.
@jhawkintexas OU has a better path now, you think?
@KUSTEVE I don't like yellow either!
We forgot BTK, Dennis rader. Also known for the Carr brothers murders. Also had some pretty good fb and bb players from collegiate, mo Evans? I think and ??? It was his cousin, deangelo evans? Not sure
@truehawk93 I think we could see some hm too. Speedier guy. I also thought we might have oubre guard baker some, who's been slumping on his jumpers. We are quicker and deeper!
@JayHawkFanToo and a rivalry!
@JayHawkFanToo I read a study on that and there was no difference.
Jay wright going down! Go Mario! Hopefully!
@JayHawkFanToo I think key for KU, Mason scoring more against top teams. Anxious to see what Coach has up his sleeve, maybe some zone?
@KUSTEVE I thought you knew me better than that!! No yellow or black!
Saw it on twitter, it just said outside on mass street.
@KUSTEVE pardon my French, they're both butt ugly! You don't want a shirt w/wushock on it! I was kidding!
Your choice?
@KUSTEVE I have a Christmas present for you, which one u like?
Frank Mason III vs. Fred VanVleet: By the numbers
Scott Chasen | @SChasenKU | Updated 15 minutes ago
Following Wichita State’s victory over Indiana, Shocker guard Ron Baker jokingly said “a lot of houses are going to be divided” on Sunday, during the showdown against Kansas. However, that comment is just the tip of the iceberg, as far as the divisive nature of the teams are concerned.
Start with the point guard matchup between Kansas’ Frank Mason III and Wichita State’s Fred VanVleet. With nearly identical height and weight, the two certainly are similar and stature, and their numbers match up quite closely as well.
However, as is often the case in sports, people would rather rank the two and come to a conclusion on why one is “far better” than the other, rather than appreciating the greatness in front of them.
If you think Frank Mason can hold Fred VanVleet you stupid
— Edgar Batres (@kicks4days0911) March 20, 2015
@kicks4days0911 if you think Fred can hold Mason your crazy bro
— Jacob ❔ (@salasjacob18) March 20, 2015
Frank Mason > Fred VanVleet
— campagne papi (@camrentm) March 20, 2015
My little brother just said that Frank Mason is a better basketball player and point guard than Fred VanVleet He must be drunk as hell.
— Jordan Manning (@JayMann35) January 25, 2015
While fans can argue all that they want, statistically speaking, Mason and VanVleet are incredibly, incredibly similar players. Prior to the NCAA Tournament, the two differed by less than one point, rebound and steal per game, although VanVleet did average 1.3 more assists per game than his Kansas counterpart. Percentage-wise, it was the same story, as Mason held an extremely slight advantage, shooting about half-a-percent better from the field and the free throw line and 4-percent better from three.
However, it is worth noting that VanVleet’s numbers are a little inflated compared to Mason’s, seeing as the Shockers played just three games against ranked opponent on the year, compared to fifteen for the Jayhawks. Kansas ended with the top RPI strength of schedule in the nation, whereas Wichita State’s schedule was ranked 120.
“We’ve played against a lot of good point guards. The Big 12 has plenty of them,” said Kansas sophomore Wayne Selden. “I feel like [Mason] is the toughest point guard in the country. When you’ve got that on your team, you don’t want anything else.”
Now, the advanced statistics did put some separation between the two, as VanVleet had a much higher assist rate, for example, but a lot of that is a function of two things. First, VanVleet has a higher usage rate than Mason, meaning that Wichita State possessions are more likely to end with VanVleet than Kansas possessions are to end in the hands of Mason.
Second, unlike Kansas, the roster of Wichita State is not deep at all, with just five players averaging more than 14.5 minutes per game, compared to nine for Kansas. Simply put, VanVleet has the ball in his hands in meaningful situations more often, which is kind of a double-edged sword. On one hand, it does skew the statistics in VanVleet’s favor, but there’s also something to be said about the increased role he has on Wichita State.
“He’s an aggressive player,” said Kansas point guard Devonte’ Graham of VanVleet. “He looks to attack and score. Every time he has the ball in his hands, he makes plays for others, and he’s a really good point guard for them.
On a game-to-game basis, the statistics show that Mason was the far more consistent performer, scoring at least 10 points in 29 of his 35 games, which included one stretch where he scored 10-or-more points in 20-consecutive games. VanVleet, on the other hand, had more standout games, crossing the 18-point total on eight different occasions, but he also had six games with seven or fewer points, including two games where he scored two and three points.
Mason scored at least seven in all-but three games, and he never was below four points on the year, unlike VanVleet, but whereas the Wichita State point guard had two 27-point games, Mason never scored above 21. However, either way, it’s safe to say that the two have no problem scoring when needed.
VanVleet breaking ankles! #Shockers (Vine by Michael, TBL) https://t.co/20qXF3JcYD ↗
— Alex (@AlejandroRiv__) March 2, 2015
Vine'd is the modern day YouTube'd. RT @rustindodd ... RT @marshallartist Frank Mason. https://t.co/Y9wGtU0Zwf ↗
— Sam Mellinger (@mellinger) February 8, 2014
Now, as far as assists are concerned, the numbers again say that the two are incredibly similar, as each had 20 games with at least four assists. VanVleet did have a slightly higher peak, which is why he averages 1.3 more assists per game, but typically the numbers were consistent.
For example, VanVleet’s best passing stretch saw him rack up 29 combined assists in four-consecutive games, whereas Mason peaked at 28 total assists across four-straight outings. Both players have been able to get into the lane and dish to an open man this year, and both have had games where they’ve been at their best facilitating, although they’re obviously more-than capable scorers.
Wichita State guard Ron Baker and Kansas forward Perry Ellis, who lead their respective teams in points per game, echoed that sentiment. They said they enjoyed playing with such great facilitators and scorers, and when asked if having a point guard that can rack up points helped take the pressure off them, the two had similar answers.
“Absolutely,” Baker said on Saturday. “For me, the pressure [becomes] just making [shots].”
“It takes a lot [off of us],” Ellis said. “When [Mason] is out there playing aggressive, we’re at out best.”
The only other area of separation between to two came against top competition, where the numbers really fell in Mason’s favor. VanVleet scored more than 13 points against a ranked opponent in just one out of three games, whereas Mason did it three times in his last five games against a ranked team. Ultimately, the numbers balanced out throughout the year, but Mason did come into the tournament playing better basketball against better teams.
Simply put, overall, the two players and incredibly alike, and as far as debates between which is better, none of that will matter on Sunday. What matters is who performs when the lights are at their brightest in a one game playoff that will leave one team eliminated.
Will it be the sophomore from Petersburg, Virginia who inspired a rap before ever scoring a point in a Kansas uniform, or will it be the junior from Rockford, Illinois who has been a part of three NCAA Tournament runs, which have put Wichita State right back on the map?
Either way, it should be one heck of a matchup to watch.
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@drgnslayr did you think Indiana looked good?
@BeddieKU23 loose, had fun! Played hard! Played smart!
@BeddieKU23 Fred is good! But their seasoned vets have not played anywhere near the competition KU has. Yes they have gone further the past few years, we play those teams far more often. Indiana is terrible! Jmo
@abaker6sports: Kelly Oubre "I took a nap yesterday during the Wichita State game." #kubball #Shockers http://t.co/IDAYai41LD ↗
@JayHawkFanToo he has lost that wt, for now.
@JayHawkFanToo saw that. Announcers today keep saying it was the right call.
@JayHawkFanToo that sucks so bad for them!!!
@BeddieKU23 Fred vf reminds me of forte, he's very good at throwing his body into the defense.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/dont-kill-the-mellinger/article15536393.html ↗
Really nice article about BG!
@icthawkfan316 I know! I use my iPad. Agree 100%!
@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn I think we have established the 3 in this gym! This streak will continue!!
No doubt ncaa set this game up, but the refs aren't going to take us out, only we can.
@icthawkfan316 where have you been? Don't be a stranger!
As far as WSU's march experience, we play those teams in preseason, every year!
This is what I found
@SoftballDad2011 dang I thing I read that we have the most. Who knows where I saw it though.
@icthawkfan316 curious why you wouldn't live in Lawrence?
@Hawk8086 he said they identified the kids as drivers or shooters and of course we have mostly been driving it so the report didn't reflect our Jayhawks shooting prowess they put on yesterday. Dg and Mason were probably drivers, BG you know!
@icthawkfan316 I like wichita too. It's an easy drive and lots of places to shop and eat. I mainly go to the west side, it's grown so much.
@KUSTEVE kake