🏀 KuBuckets Archive

It is just really sad. Embarrassing too. Kind of makes me a touch angry .... I'll stop there. Holidays and all.

@BShark Come on, that’s no fun. I was more thinking along the lines of Young would have run his car into a curb, or Self would say he wasn’t grasping our system, or a bong would have fallen out of his backpack — something entertaining like that.

So, what would have happened if Young had picked KU?

@Kcmatt7 As a coach, Self knows he needs to show faith in your players. The guy is a freshman, who, on another KU team, may not be playing. But one thing is for sure, we may be forced to rely upon him in March. Further, we've seen many positives from him.

When you say he is not ready to contribute -- I think you are completely ignoring the defensive end. That the biggest thing you are not recognizing.

Who is a better defender than Garrett (other than DG)? And who is a better rebounder on this team? He is the second best rebounder of the 7 regulars, and he has 2.5 more rebounds per 40 minutes played than any other guard. Doke's the only one with more rebounds per 40, and he's 6'10" 280 pounds and is near the basket on nearly every shot. The gap between Doke and Garrett is less than the gap between Garrett and the other guards.

When you look at the Box Score +/-, Garrett is third on the team. Interesting at least.

It would be really unwise to write him off as not ready to contribute. Has his performance tailed off? No doubt. But the same way you don't get giddy after 5 games, you don't declare him not ready to contribute after a similar time frame.

All of that said, if Cunliffe proves to be a better player when you "net" everything out, then he should play over Garrett. We'll see how Self handles it.

@BeddieKU23 @Kcmatt7 Remember, with Garrett, he's just a freshman, and not the "stud", highly ranked guy. Shooting is much about comfort. @BeddieKU23's reference to a "mental thing" is a real consideration. He just needs to settle in. Needs to develop confidence. I do like the idea of setting him up more to operate near the basket. He's seems pretty skilled there, and seems particularly quick on the second jump. Finds a way to get the ball, tip the ball, recover. Personally, I'd start him over Newman because of the defense. I really like how Self has handled his misses -- again, calm and cool. Probably only getting on him if it is really bad look. That will pay off. Garrett looks like Releford to me a little bit, as far as his attributes. Garrett is a better rebounder of course, and I think Garrett does have more upside. I really like Garrett moving forward.

Now, do we want him shooting a critical three? Probably not. But he does need to shoot. On good looks. That will allow him to progress and develop. You never know when, late in a game perhaps on the road in Morgantown, a few guys have fouled out, and the ball finds Garrett late. We want him to drill it.

The character of the team is taking shape. It won't be Newman being the focal point. Shifting our focus from he potentially being a star, or all conference, or something like that -- this season -- is all that is required for peace of mind. He's a more than competent player that could strike for 20 some nights. But right now, he's a peg or two behind our other four starters. His ball handling is something that shouldn't be overlooked. He's our second best ball handler, thus is pretty indispensable right now (assuming DG can't go 40). I'm just not seeing skills that indicate a significant leap to a different level of player right now. If he would be displaced as a starter, he'd be the first guard off the bench for sure.

Our issues, really, aren't Newman or guard related at all. They're post related. Until that continuing drama/saga is solved, we're exactly what we've seen. If we can add a real post player, that will help defensively, as well. But the x factor is what we've seen before. We are staged for another round of Self magic. Who doubts the guy will find a way to get this team playing better? This may be a big test for Self magic come conference play.

The Temple slaughter of a few years ago stands out among the pre-Christmas, not 100% focused games.

I thought Cunliffe looked fine. Still has the nice looking shot. He was a bit stiff and slow, I thought, but that amounts to nit-picking since that's his first real sustained game action. He could be some shooting off the bench, and now that we're in a more shooter friendly era of KU basketball under Self, a shooter off the bench won't get his head bit off. He could definitely have a role.

Dakich is horrible. Good grief.

I have one Omaha memory, and it ain't good .. circa 2015.

Starters: Mason, Hinrich, Pierce, Manning, Wilt.

Bench: Mario, Collins, Collison, LaFrenz.

We need a pud on the schedule right now.

@lincase Welcome. You were reading my mind a bit. This morning, I was thinking about our trades essentially from last season. We have "traded" Lucas, Coleby, Bragg, Mason and Jackson for Doke, Newman, Garrett, and Lightfoot. No one would make that trade if you had the former group. We have better post player (Doke) but he doesn't rebound as well. Nothing else is better about this team. Vick is better than he was last season. Svi might be. But the those marginal improvements don't change that we lost the best PG in KU history, and the best OAD in KU history.

A roller coaster ride, this will be (In Yoda speak -- seeing the new Star Wars movie in just a bit, so I'm prepping myself).

@jaybate-1-0 Here's what Newman said about his concussion, "I blacked out for a little while,” said Newman, who added Sunday was his first concussion. “When I finally got it together I kind of knew what was going on then, but once it happened I kind of blacked out. … Just a lot of headaches. A lot of headaches.” Before fixing that problem, Newman must overcome the concussion, a process that began in earnest Monday when the guard took his first exam of finals week. “It wasn’t a good one,” Newman said with a smile. “As far as just looking at the paper the whole time, the words looked like they started moving all over the paper and things like that. But I’m sure I did good.”

From Self: “He was a little bit limited yesterday, so we’ll see how today goes,” Kansas coach Bill Self said Thursday. “No reason why he can’t be full speed Saturday — at least, that’s what I’ve been told.”

So two days after the words moving around on the paper, the guy was practicing (limited)?

You said, " Malik is doing something that I frankly cannot believe a doctor is letting him do now." Can't agree more. Personally, I'm shocked. On Monday, he's having significant concussion symptoms, words moving around on the paper; he's have "a lot of headaches", and by Saturday, he's playing?

The articles were posted late on Thursday, December 14. The quotes obviously came from that same day. No where does Newman say "I'm fine now." I'm sure they use the direct testing, like the Impact test. Doctors will say that the Impact test is just one piece of the decision making process, though. Again, seems like the brain deserves a more cautious approach.

@JayHawkFanToo If he was still impacted by the concussion, I really don’t think he should have been playing. Concerning that he said he was having trouble focusing on his exam on Monday.

We beat Nebraska by one. We should all let that sink in. A win is not just a win, because we have bigger goals in mind.

The info on Cunliffe, guys, was pretty solid. We saw him play in Italy. He was bad. He did not play well in 10 games vs. ASU.

It's just a matter of Self getting him in, Cunliffe performing, and Self gaining a bit of trust there. That might be next season. But necessity is the mother of invention. Someone get hurt, etc., his opportunity may come sooner. He's depth and that is nice to have. We'll see how all that plays out. I think @JayHawkFanToo is right. He seems like more of a wing than anything on or near the ball. Svi kind of hogs that position now.

But Newman tonight? Ugh.

@Ralster Well, good to hear from you again. Hope you're a regular.

I take it everyone saw that Gonzaga destroyed Washington.?

@mayjay Hope is a personal thing. You can have hope.

There was more to it. But that doesn't mean the kid didn't have a concussion issue. If fact, before you were posting here (or maybe it was before this site was in existence, thus at kusports.com), I was strongly against Peters playing HS football his senior season because of the injury risk. My opinion was not a popular one -- "Let the kid enjoy high school" , ".. do what he wants.", ".. do what he loves." Etc.

Regardless, that has nothing to do with whether he's on the all-baggage team. Injury issues can certainly be baggage, and certainly if you bring them with you which he did. He sustained a shoulder injury, too, that he got in practice at KU.

As you may or may not recall, Zack left the KU program to "focus on his health." He then began engaging in the recruiting process almost immediately, and a few months later, committed to Arizona. It was reported just after he left that he was intending to "transfer."

It was reported before Peters transferred that he was going to redshirt his first season at KU anyway.

As was obvious, he could have stayed at Kansas and "focused on his health." The logic made little sense as he was going to redshirt anyway if he wanted to be here. So why not stay, get healthy here, and play the next season? Someone who wanted to be here would have made a different decision. There were other considerations that made his departure more sensible -- the strong rumors in the pre-twitter days. By staying, he would not have lost a semester of playing time.

Fun topic. So I'll add my baggage list. I'd go with a starting 5 of Tyshawn, Tharpe, Preston, Cliff, and Diallo.

Pure drama. Tyshawn was a never ending source, from the fight (football team), to the bang (AFH with female hoops player), to his selfish and sporadic play. My least favorite Jayhawk, I have to admit. Tharpe was a pouter, and the info about how he had to be coddled was always unsettling. The next three (and we're playing big), are all post players. All major time missed. All major drama. All guys who we spend way, way too much time talking about the what ifs, and how good they could be. I also think Self created a lot of the drama with Diallo and Alexander by unwisely limiting their roles. Ah, what life would have been like without Traylor and Lucas. We will never know. What other player might we have acquired? What talent might have had the opportunity to shine through if given a real opportunity? Both too much drama on both Diallo and Alexander, regardless of Self's contribution. Both had outside issues that far outweighed their contributions, and coupled with the hype, it was at times untenable. In sum, we all argued about them way too much.

My second team would start with Andrew Wiggins. Really, he should be a starter. But the first team implies a contribution level that was perhaps not outweighing the baggage. The baggage for Wiggins? The over the top, unreal, unfair, and never ending hype. Nothing about him, once he finally dove on the floor. All about the stuff surrounding him. When SI had the Wilt to Manning to Wiggins comparison, it was puke time.

The full second team: Andrew Wiggins, Carlton Bragg, Brannen Greene, Anrio Adams, Zach Peters.

Is this the famous @Ralster?

@Blown Ah, but how many cars and benefits went unnoticed because the player was able to avoid such a mishap? One may never know.

@REHawk I'll jab back very slightly, my friend. How do you win a national championship if your planning, scheming, and personnel aren't geared for that goal? I will say that hoping for a national title every couple of decades seems to be aiming a bit low, in my ever so humble opinion.

@jayballer54 An appropriate term for what @HawkChamp is saying is an "apologist."

I would also say this. You may wonder why things go downhill sometimes with your posting and responses. Try reading what you wrote. Then do a 2 + 2 analysis. But I'm guessing you aren't going to clue in on the "why" part of it.

Quite frankly, a discussion is not "bitching", etc., as you want to disjointedly describe it.

@3genhawk Not sure how long you've been posting here or at kusports.com .. but back when UK won the title in 2012, UK didn't make the tourney the following year. There were folks arguing that it was actually better to make the tournament every season, than it was to win national titles and miss it every so often. That conversation occurred when discussing UConn, as well.

It is a mindset that I can't even fathom.

@jayballer54 So, what do you say about our NCAA performance during Self's tenure? Satisfied, I assume?

The idea of practicing there more is a good one. To get out of the comfort zone, and in a bigger arena (which would apply in March). Money issues aside, if we could draw it up, it would be nice to play more true road games in non-con.

@Fightsongwriter Just in comparison to other programs, since Self has been here - UNC 5 Final Fours, Duke 3 FFs, UK 4 FFs, MSU 4 FFs, Louisville 3 FFs, UConn 3 FFs, Florida 3 FFs, Butler 2 FFs, Wisconsin 2 FFs, Ohio St. 2 FFs, Syracuse 2 FFs.

@DoubleDD Every year we defy logic? Right, how does a team with so much talent avoid making the final four?

@justanotherfan @kjayhawks You both realize that Garrett is shooting over 47%, right? Our issues aren't scoring related. No one disputes that Garrett is our best rebounder and best stealer of the basketball, correct? And no one disputes that he's at least our 2nd best perimeter defender (Graham likely best), correct? That sort of stuff makes teams better. Further, if the player that is replaced is not a focused team player, then inserting a team player with significant attributes can make the team better. Agreed?

Interested in why I may be looking at this incorrectly.

@JayHawkFanToo @Blown And I think the first part of that quote implies the same thing. If you're not focusing on things related to winning, that seems selfish on its face at least.

Also, again, this @jaybate-1-0 theory on Newman -- look at the last game when Svi was in transition, bounced a pass backward to Malik for the three. Cool play. Let to a TO from ASU. Newman didn't look at Svi, point at Svi .. nothing. I don't have the time on the play handy. But it was noticeable. I'll see if I can find the play later.

Cunliffe had a 10.8 PER over his 10 games. Let that sink in. Small sample, a year ago.

Always exciting to see a new player in game action. Looking forward to it.

@justanotherfan Why do you think that Cunliffe can handle the ball adequately to play point? Just that you think he's better than alternatives?

@chriz You said, "If the queen had a pair, she’d be the king." Nowadays, man, you never know.

I do think @Kcmatt7 is right to a large degree. Expectations play a big part in how critical we are of a player, or the situation. Newman was a top 10ish player. And now a guy who played one season, then sat a season learning KU's system, expectations, etc. All that combined means that we should reasonably expect a much better player, perhaps. But what are we expecting? He's really "not that bad" as @Crimsonorblue22 said. It's just the expectations. Is Newman really as bad as some think?

Newman actually has played better than his freshman season. He shot 39.1% from 2-pt range, 37.9% from 3 pt range, had a PER of 12.4, and a box score +/- of 0.0. This season, Newman is shooting 51.2 from 2 pt range, 40.5% from 3 pt range, with a PER now of 16.0 and a box score +/- of 7.0.

Compare him to Wayne Selden (similar rank, in Self's system all years). Those same numbers for Selden (2 pt%/3 pt%/PER/BPM) - Freshman season 53.2/32.8/12.3/5.7; Sophomore season 39.5/36.5/11.9/4.9; Junior season 54.8/39.2/17.9/7.8. Wayne, of course, shot threes in a much different, less shooter friendly environment (tactfully put). The "flopping around on the bench" era, perhaps.

Interesting numbers though. Selden has a very bad sophomore season. But look at his numbers. He's in the NBA.

Newman's shooting %s aren't bad. In fact, the 40+% from 3 is excellent. And 51.9 from 2 pt range is just a touch better than Mason did his senior season. His shooting numbers this season are on both counts (2s and 3s) better than Devonte Graham.

I just think with Newman the path is unknown here. We have to be patient. We have no choice. But he's in what would be his Jr. season, but without the on-court experience of his sophomore season. So a sophomore plus.

That all said, I like adding a very high quality defender, and guy that excels in specific parts of the game (rebounding/steals) to the starting lineup. So I'd start Garrett and run with that chemistry for a bit. But Newman deserves our patience I think.

So, we have player and family who know that it's a violation; we have third parties assisting that knows it's a violation; and we have a KU compliance department that didn't catch it. I'm assuming the vehicle was parked at McCarthy hall. Unless the compliance department was an accomplice here (purposefully or negligently), it is reasonable to assume that the player/family lied about the financial arrangements related to the vehicle. The first thing I'd want to know is how did the player get the vehicle, who paid for it, when it was purchased, and I'd want to see all paperwork. Seems easy, right? Unless folks are trying to deceive. Nearly two months and the kid isn't playing. That tells us something.

They can shoe horn anyone in. How many players do you ever hear of anymore being academically ineligible? Getting in early sounds like it may be different.

This is KU's first true road game. I think I still get a nervous tic thinking of corner three pointers from Eric Piatkowski. Danny Nee, Cookie Belcher, Alecs Marik, Erik Strickland -- add in Husker fans, never a likeable bunch to me.

Man, of all the options, a booster buying the car seems like the worst one. Give me the AAU coach narrative. Maybe we can call him a mentor?

@HawkChamp @wissox The buck stops with Self. His program. He picks the players. He judges character, reliability, commitment, etc. Things CEOs do all the time. Heck, we lost Evan Maxwell, too. Three bodies for this season down the drain. Even with Preston, three bigs? Do we really count Mitch as a "big"? Never have we been this thin. Ever. In 2012 we had two bigs better than any that we have now (TRob and Withey), and a pretty sweet sub (KY).

My view is that Bill Self is the best coach in CBB. I wouldn't trade him for any other coach. But like every other human on this earth, he ain't perfect. The roster prep and composition here in the post was one of his worst moments. We'll see how we look on Jan. 15.

I heard something today from a mid-level KU donor. He says the "rumor" is that an agent purchased the car for Preston. He does not expect that Preston will ever play. Who knows? I don't.

@jaybate-1-0 Is Bill Self God? Or a god? The god of "_____"?

@JayHawkFanToo Darn it. I trusted my memory again. Should have used that simple thing called google.

@approxinfinity @kjayhawks Guys, guys … the last time we started 0-2 was in the 1987-88 season. When we won the national championship.

You've got me thinkin'…

KU a bunch of "mortals." Batten down the hatches. This is shaping up to be a rough ride.

Here's why Garrett gets praise. Look at his stats coming into the game. He led the team in steals and rebounds per minute played. That said, Garrett's stats were compiled largely on cupcakes, as have been everyone's; though if Garrett plays less against good teams, that could impact it (as it has). We'll see how it plays out. Lightfoot just isn't good yet. This is not hard. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Just use @mayjay's 1-10 scale.

That all said, today's loss had nothing to do with Lightfoot. Nothing. Lightfoot is not playing worse than we would have expected, right? Lightfoot is actually playing perhaps better than I would have expected. And he is out of position as @Texas-Hawk-10 pointed out. We should not judge Lightfoot on Self's failure to have competent big men on the roster.

Let's see how this big man situation plays itself out. We've got two possibilities waiting in the wings. We now know our season depends on it.

This roller-coaster ride is just beginning. Wait until conference season. This will be fun.

@Blown you said, "there are some serious insecurities in this forum with regard to WSU" -- ya think?? Lots.

@Kcmatt7 I am very clearly in the camp of believing that our Newman sample size is too small. So I don't think any decision should be knee jerk.

That said, I think Garrett is a better player. I don't think anyone doubts that Garrett is the far superior defender. Correct? So in one-half of what occurs in the game (defense), Garrett is better. And appreciably better.

To the other half. Garrett, right now, is not a real threat offensively. I do think development on the court will help with that. Confidence. Comfort. I also think that in Garrett's situation, it is easy for him to defer. But advantage Newman.

However, guess who is the best rebounder on the team? Marcus Garrett. He nearly doubles up Newman on a per minute played basis. Newman and Garrett have the same assist per minute ratio. But Garrett has double the rate of steals per minute (3.2 vs. 1.6 per 40 minutes), and his ratio of steals, per 100 possessions - 4.4 to 2.1, is even better. In fact, again, Garrett is best on the team at his rate of stealing the ball. We have also seen his ability to disrupt.

So in Garrett you have a high quality defender, and the guy that leads the team in rebounding and steals per minutes. This is the kind of player that makes a team better.

Again, I'm good with patience on Newman. But even if Newman scores better than he does now, I still think Garrett is the better overall player, and is more likely to make the team better. As of now, the stats seem to prove that to be the case.

@kcmatt What worries you about Garrett? Do you think he's better so far than Newman?

@jayballer54 You still ain't trackin'. No one suggests that our record or schedule is worse than WSU. Got that? No one. My point which you did not refute is that we regularly play non-con teams that are worse the WSU. Meaning the team WSU. Many times our opponents are way worse. Thus we would benefit by replacing one with a better team, WSU. One that could even be a fun rival.

@JayHawkFanToo That crossing route he got beat on vs. the Jets was exactly what you are referring to. Goal line situation and he just gets smoked on a basic route. Dealing the guy couldn't come soon enough for me.

I'd start Garrett, too. Doesn't mean Newman doesn't play. He'll play a lot.

@JayHawkFanToo @kjayhawks One interesting stat. I'm not a total advanced stats guy, but the Box Score Plus Minus (BPM) over the course of the season is pretty accurate. Mason and JJ were tops last season, with DG second. It's basically the number of points a player contributes to over the average player, per 100 possessions.

This season, Marcus Garrett is at 12.6, Newman 7.5 (Garrett is right there with DG and Vick). That seems to meet with the eye test that we generally look better with Garrett in vs. Newman. As a note, not only was Cunliff's PER very low at ASU, his BPM was the second lowest among ASU regulars (comparing his 10 games vs. ASU players over the entire season). Small sample size. I'm wait and see on Cunliffe.

On whether Newman is selfish -- I think he is. But I do think that sometimes, the bronco needs bustin' so to speak. I just don't know how that looks, or how Self is handling that. But if someone can convince a guy to be a team player it's Bill Self. The only player I ever really questioned his handling of, in that regard, was Tyshawn Taylor. I do think there is a reasonable chance that Newman is a different player in two months. Like Cunliffe at ASU, small sample size.

@wrwlumpy You are exactly right about how Newman appeared vs. the zone.

That "Dog" thing Self is referring to (many different ways to say it) is part DNA, part learned or acquired. But there are some, no matter what you do, they don't have it. Others have it from birth. If DG doesn't have it yet, then I wouldn't bet on it. I'm a bit surprised/disappointed that is the way Self sees DG right now.

If you were picking the five you wanted on the floor at the end of a game, would it include Garrett or Newman right now? I'd say Garrett now. But I'm a bit torn because of the composition and lack of depth on our team. If Cunliffe is a player, then I think that makes a move by Self to Garrett at some point easier because we would not be totally reliant on Newman. I think that's why Self probably has to stick with Newman now as a starter. I think Newman can get out of this funk. But it is an interesting thing to monitor.