@dylans "Greatest Coach" with 1000 wins and 5 National Championships is hyperbole???
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Oh, and btw, what did that hyperbolic "Greatest Coach" do a year after that Mercer upset? Just came back and won the National Championship, is all! Duh!!! What did Bill do the next year after his 2014 tournament upset? Uhhh, the exact same thing again.
@JayHawkFanToo & @Crimsonorblue22 & @dylans I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.
@JayHawkFanToo You totally miss my point.
@Crimsonorblue22 So if your National Merit Scholars didn't get A's, would you think maybe the teacher is suspect? And if your team with 4 or 5 future NBA draft picks get upset by teams with no NBA talent, would you think maybe the coach is suspect?
I'm sure Bill is a great guy and it sounds like a great experience to hang out with him in that loosened up atmosphere. And he is a great coach and I'm sure a great teacher. But you can't ignore the elephant in the room named Tournament Upsets and that's why I'm jaded.
And I never had a teacher who taught as well as Bill coaches, but I never had a teacher who made $5 million/year. Because they don't pay teachers $5 mil/year. They pay coaches $5mil/year. To win and generate revenue for the school. And yeah, if a teacher inherited a group of National Merit Scholars and nobody got an A in his class, I'll bet the administration would have a sit-down with that teacher.
I'm sure coaching candidates at Kansas say all the right things about teaching and graduating and father figure and I'm sure the AD listens and smiles and nods, but at the University of Kansas, they're looking for someone that they believe can win. I doubt if they've hired anyone to 'teach' the game since Phog, lol.
But the bottom line is, I wouldn't be such a sourpuss if we didn't have all these tournament upsets.
@Crimsonorblue22 lol--basketball coaches are hired on their ability to win, not teach.
@JayHawkFanToo & @dylans Yeah, but isn't 'getting your players to execute' what you did in practice all week part of coaching? Even if it means physically pushing them into position?
And isn't 15-16 losses for a team heavy with NBA draft picks a coaching fail? It sure is on this board if your name is Calipari. But then, he and coach K did bounce back from their down years and early exits with Final Four appearances. As I've already posted, I'd trade a down year here or there for another win or two in the tournament the next year.
@ralster watching him break down every nuance of what Hoiberg is doing with IowaState was simply incredible.
But wait, didn't Fred beat Bill twice this year? Well, I guess Bill talks a good game. Or maybe he actually watched the tapes of those games to get some insight on what Fred was doing...
@BeddieKU23 Agree--I was being sarcastic. Guess I should have added one more 'SO' lol. But hey, we were still Top 32!
@jaybate-1.0 I guess Shaq maybe--so what's your point? How many 7 footers are there in the general population? And how many of them have the skill and agility to have an impact on an NBA basketball game for a long enough sustained period of time to be considered for the Hall of Fame? Maybe about one every 20 years? Are there some other nations out there who are producing a plethora of Hall of Fame-worthy 7 footers?
@HighEliteMajor & @BeddieKU23 No guys--you just don't understand--we had SO many injuries! SO many more than any other D1 team. It's a miracle we didn't have to play our student managers! And we were SO young! SO, SO young! Probably younger than any other team out there...except maybe Kentucky and Duke...
Gosh, and just imagine how good he would look if he still had Joel down low, lol.
@jaybate-1.0 I'm sure he still gets paid no matter how many fans show up. Unless he gets a percentage of the door. Still, I know a lot tougher ways to make a living. Bet he still makes more than Brady ever did.
@sfbahawk It was obvious from the get-go that Wigs was a major league baller. It was only Bill's system that held him back. Too bad Bill chose to run his offense thru his post players last year, who if I'm not mistaken, barely had any 20 pt games, as opposed to Wigs, who displayed the ability to throw down 40. If only we had run an offense for Wigs against Stanford...
Oh well... another early exit.
Yeah, great performance by Jones--but he did step out of bounds and the non-call resulted in 2 Duke points late. Allen also obviously pushed off on a drive, but instead of a turnover, a defensive foul was called that gave Duke a 3pt opportunity. At least 4 calls that should have gone the other way.
@jaybate-1.0 Give it up guy--you obviously have too much time on your hands.
@drgnslayr Don't know if anyone read it, but I posted a few weeks ago that I would gladly trade any or every one of our conference titles for one more win in that year's NCAA tournament. Imagine--another National Championship and two more Final Fours.
@HighEliteMajor Upon reflection, I don't think I would have any problem with that scenario. Sure would make things more exciting around the conference.
I say we go for tying UCLA for the conference streak record. Then we could have a reference point for comparing Bill Self to John Wooden--
Conference Championships
:-\
@drgnslayr The dinosaur age? His offense would probably fit right in, lol. The game has moved on.
Gee, I don't know--I can't decide where I stand on this issue, lol.
The Big 12--with five teams in the Top 25. And none in the Top 10.
The Big 12 Sucks. Let's see, where have I heard that before?
@nuleafjhawk Well, he kicked our talented and competitive butts.
So, Smart and Marshall the lead candidates. I guess the ability to beat Bill Self is high on Texas' list of qualifications.
And too bad Conner didn't hang around--he probably could have gotten into the last 3 minutes of our last tournament game, just like last year (and just like Svi this year) in Bill's desperate attempt to cash in on some of that Fool's Gold, lol!
@HighEliteMajor Agree totally. I often just shake my head at the "other-bashing" on this site. Especially 'others' so close to home--Marshall, Weber, Barnes, etc. The gloating over a rival's losses--I won't go so far as to say embarrassed, but I certainly find it distasteful, and I know how you feel. Just seems small-minded to me. I'd hate to be in a foxhole with some of these guys and find out we went to different high schools.
All this talk about "Wait til he gets in a big conference, then we'll see the emperor has no clothes, blah blah blah." Why not just give the guy his due--he's done a great job with a lot less talent than KU.
Maybe the NCAA has an agenda about who should NOT advance in the tournament. I read that Larry and Roy are both gonna be on the hot seat now that they're through with Boeheim.
@ralster Repost from a few weeks ago--
Interesting conversation on Dan Patrick's radio show the other day about Penny Hardaway and Derrick Rose that might be relevant. Discussing Derrick Rose post-recovery--how he's become a 'jump shooter' and doesn't go hard to the bucket nearly as much. Penny said he totally relates, because after his injury, he never trusted his leg to go hard into traffic and just instinctually pulled up all the time. Wasn't long after that, he was out of the league.
I have noted before that we seem to have a lot of players who develop stress fractures. Don't know if it's more than the norm across the college basketball spectrum.
I also noticed that Travis Releford seemed to regress by his senior year in terms of agility. Maybe too much time in the weight room?
@ralster Sorry, I can't be much help on that point--I don't really follow the local recruiting scene. The idea makes sense though--imagine a West Coast kid visiting back east or midwest in the dead of winter. Maybe the winter weather has something to do with Rick Barnes & Scott Drew's recruiting abilities.
I do remember hearing that story about the Twins. I was just making a little joke about the scenario.
In exit interviews after the final game in 2009, the Twins asked Coach Self, "What do we need to do to get better?"
"Get stronger," answered Bill. "Hit the weights."
So the Twins dutifully arose at 6am all summer and hit the weights.
After the final game of 2010, the Twins asked Coach, "What happened? How can we get better?"
Bill answered, "You're not strong enough. Get into the summer weight program."
So the Twins again spent the summer arising at 6am and dragging themselves into the weight room.
After the final game of the 2011 season, the Twins asked again, "What went wrong?"
Bill answered, "You gotta keep hitting the weights. You can never be strong enough."
The Twins looked at each other and said, "What was that agent's name again?"
So if Notre Dame handles Wichita fairly easily tomorrow, does that reflect on the stature of KU basketball, or that of the Big 12 Conference? If Oklahoma & West Virginia lose, and don't look good doing it, does it shine a new light on our conference?
We've been hearing all season about 'the best conference in college basketball.' Now we have two teams left in the tournament and neither if favored to advance. Both teams would have to make it to the Elite Eight for the Big 12 to live up to it's regular season hype, imo.
@HighEliteMajor said:
nothing within the scheme to get open shots
The look on Bill's face on the sideline late in the game reminded me of the picture I saw in the dictionary when I looked up "I got nuthin."
@jaybate-1.0 You just don't really understand the game, do you? You see some sort of conspiracy or well plotted out 'assassination attempt' in a bam-bam basketball play. I suppose the refs could have looked at the monitor for a possible 'letter of the law' violation, but I (and apparently the refs) just didn't see any intent there. And if they did look at the monitor, all they would have seen, as I did, was a 'basketball move.'
Perry looked fine to me when he returned. You can make all the excuses you want, but Wichita was just the better team. They were just more mentally tough. Did you happen to listen to Len Elmore all through the second half?
Wichita just plays a tougher, more hard-nosed game than we do. Maybe it's just the wheel of karma turning on Bill for his Illinois thug-ball days. Get over it. You just sound whiny.
@iheartjayhawks I think Marshall might (and should) hold out for something bigger. There might openings at Texas and Syracuse on the near horizon, lol.
Can't wait til Late Night next October when we hang our Big 12 Banner!!!
What kind of hilarious skit will Bill pull?
Will he ride a motorcycle?
Will he wear a Wiggins-style sports coat?
Will he dress up like a shock of wheat?
Okay, I know, that was mean. I'm sorry. But I couldn't resist :)
@nuleafjhawk Yeah, and just think if we still had Wilt and Danny and JoJo! Then we could put a smackdown on that mean ol' Kentucky, lol!
@RockChalkinTexas Well, I guess that's the group we belong in then.
Non-Blueblood programs.
And in the meantime,
Kentucky moves on.
Duke moves on.
Louisville moves on.
Arizona moves on.
North Carolina moves on.
Michigan State moves on.
UCLA moves on.
@nuleafjhawk & @HighEliteMajor I'm with you on the apathy, but I reached that point after last year's tournament debacle. I remember thinking after a few early games last season, "Wow, this team is gonna be SO good!" And they just never developed into the team that they should have been with that talent level.
And the Stanford game was the final straw, when Joel had to sit and Bill still insisted on running his offense through...wait for it...Tarik Black. A game plan that produced five shots for...wait for it...ANDREW FREAKIN' WIGGINS!!! Cuz, "We're gonna run our stuff."
That was it for me. I no longer invest myself emotionally in this program. I'm tired of feeling like someone died after another tournament upset. I'll admit, I did get excited after the first Texas game. I thought maybe this team was coming together. But then...
And then again, at halftime of the Big12 tourney Iowa State game. After a good second half against Baylor and a good first half v ISU, I again thought, "Maybe..."
And in our first round NCAA game, the first preliminary game I've felt comfortable in for a long time (remember being tied at halftime with Eastern Kentucky last year?) when we got our 3game back on track. I thought, 'Wow, maybe that longwinded poster is right--maybe we can just turn on our 3game whenever we want." And maybe Bill was holding something back for the tournament. Maybe he really is... A Riverboat Gambler!!! lol
But no, Same ol' Same, Same ol' Bill. Another tournament upset. Another team that almost everyone thinks should have been better.
But it doesn't feel like a day of mourning, because it's been going on for a while now. This doesn't seem like a sudden death, like UNI & VCU & Michigan did. It seems more like watching a program slipping away. Although it's only been 3 years since our last title game appearance, it seems like our program's relevance in the National Title picture is withering away.
Well, I was hoping I'd be wrong but it is what it is and Len Elmore pretty much backed it up the whole second half--Wichita State is just a lot more mentally tough than we are.
Maybe they just wanted a rematch with Kentucky more than we did.
I used to date a girl named Catty Wampus!
If the Jayhawks do get to play Kentucky, I definitely believe we can beat them--if either of us gets that far. Cincy (a team not as good as Kansas) proved today that they're not invincible. But we're gonna have to have a helluva game from beyond they arc. We already know we can't beat them by going down low.
@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn No no--it's all part of Bill's plan. He's out-thought all the other coaches so thoroughly, It's like he's playing chess and they're all playing checkers. The poor chumps--they have no idea what they're up against, lol.
@DoubleDD I like your optimism.
@KUSTEVE I wasn't actually picking Wichita State. I think if we can get our 3pt game going, we can handle them without too much trouble. But if they manage to shut down our 3 game and we don't get open looks, it's gonna be a grind out game. And in that type of game, I like Wichita's mental toughness.
Sorry I can't match your hatred for Wichita State. I like to reserve that type of animosity for Duke. I am still a Kansan, after all, lol.
As has been the case all year, when Kansas gets open looks from 3, they can look very good. Their inside game was pretty average yesterday, missing a handful of easy shots. Perry wasn't even able to get up enough the get the ball over the rim on a dunk attempt.
I don't think that will be lost on Gregg Marshall. I expect the Shockers to concentrate on shutting down our 3pt game. They survived an insanely hot 3pt shooting team yesterday. I don't think we'll get as many open looks.
I expect a grind it out game. And in the mental toughness department, I think I'd have to go with Wichita State. They are definitely a tough-minded team. Gonna be a good game tomorrow.
@Hawk8086 & @JayHawkFanToo & @drgnslayr I'm basing my opinion on the Big 12 on tournament performance, and year in and year out, they just don't do it, whether they're the higher seed or not. This year, just like most, they seem to have the highest % of teams that don't advance in their first game.
Look at the other power conferences results--they had 4, 5 or 6 teams advance, except the SEC with only 2. Even the lowly Pac12 has five teams playing a second game. Only three of the seven Big 12 teams advance, after hearing all year about how strong the conference is.
They're definitely better this year, and I was really surprised to see Baylor & Iowa St get upset. I had them going to the 16 round, along with Oklahoma and maybe Kansas. I do find it interesting that the Big 12 coaches that did advance seem to be the ones with the most tournament experience.
And I also base my opinion on Big 12 Final Four appearances in the last ten years. Only two, both by Kansas. That lags way behind the other conferences. It's hard to argue against that.
And I think the simple fact that one team can dominate a conference for so long is evidence that the overall conference can't be that good. Kansas isn't that much better than the rest of the conference. They're not like UCLA in their heyday, when they dominated the whole country. They're closer to Gonzaga, who simply dominates their conference.
I've posted for several years that the Big 12 isn't a strong enough conference and playing in it doesn't do enough to prepare Kansas for the big tournament. I think maybe Bill recognized this also and decided to toughen up his schedule lately.
@jaybate-1.0 Omg-- that idea is so bad on so many levels. You're going to call for a video review of MISSED CALLS?!?! And you're going to award or take away points on the basis of a video review of MISSED CALLS? That's a ridiculous idea that would open an apocalyptic can of worms. And then you're gonna put the ref's job on the line on the basis of this? OMG--you have absolutely no on-court experience, do you? Go to bed--you're up way too late.
That being said, yeah, Larry and SMU go screwed. If they could've reviewed the call, it would have been reversed, but the rules just don't allow it. Sometimes refs make mistakes--it's not a perfect game, by coaches, players, or refs. That's basketball. Or any other organized game.
And btw, I don't see any bias in the call--just a boom-boom play that the refs missed.
ps--NO CALL committee?--lmao!!!
@HawksWin said:
Do you think B12 teams are just too worn out & beat up from its long hard battle of a season to perform well in the NCAA tourney?
No. The Big12 just isn't that good.
Omg--I'm going to try to be nice here, but...are you really serious with that? Do you really think no other conference has a tough conference race? Puh-leeze!!! I guess to extrapolate the point, you could say that the Big12's poor showing the NCAA is proof of how good our conference actually is. You don't really wanna go there with that, do you?
Bottom line--the Big12 just isn't that good. Period.
@HighEliteMajor it is THE standard of excellence in the eyes of the college basketball world. And yes, I think it is a fair judge of excellence.
Welcome aboard--I've been posting that same sentiment for about 5 years. Only two Big12 Final Four appearances in the last ten years. And only by Kansas. Doesn't come close to the record of the other major conferences. That's why I don't take much satisfaction from winning our conference every year.
Hopefully, posters here will refrain from gloating over our conference coaches 'failures' unless they're willing to hold our coach to the same standard.