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Kcmatt7
11050 posts
FBI • Apr 11, 2018 09:33 PM

@Bwag The truth though, is even teams that lose money from operating a sports program itself have actually found that they make money from it through enrollment. Two great local examples. When WSU made their FF run, enrollment JUMPED immediately. I don't think the program was any more or less profitable as a result. But the university became more profitable as a result of having an Athletic Department through increased enrollment.

Then there is Missouri. The issues they had with there football team has cost them tens of millions of dollars from enrollment dropping.

So, I would say that some Universities should probably drop their sports. But most that can get even close to breaking even, it is probably worth having an athletics department.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 09:28 PM

@Bwag Universities that lose money from their sports teams just shouldn't have sports teams. Problem solved.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 09:24 PM

@HighEliteMajor The NCAA absolutely creates a ton of value for these athletes. No doubt about it. It is a smart move for the players to come play through the schools, gain exposure, have an opportunity to get a good education, receive top of the line training, etc. But to think you could throw 10 white guys all under 6'5 out on that court and get the same National exposure, you would be mistaken. It is a balance of future pros, America's thirst for live sporting events, and school pride that have driven NCAA Basketball and Football into another level of profitability. The NCAA is honestly a victim of it's own success. It has done a great job building up amateur sports. But now things have changed and there is more money in the sport than they could have ever anticipated in 1910.

I do not think what is going on behind the scenes could get any worse when brought into the light. Companies are dictating where players go now. I think there is a better way of doing it. One where the NCAA is essentially the middle man. Once a player has chosen his school, they can then work through the "endorsement office" to secure any endorsements that are offered. And I honestly think that it would work just fine.Sure a Nike rep could say that if you go to an Adidas school, we may not sponsor you. But that would then be the same thing that is going on now.

Texas El-Chapo isn't going to be effected by this in the slightest. We are talking P5 schools and a handful of mid-majors with a decent basketball product. And that is it. Trying to regulate this doesn't make it any more of a slippery slope than it is right now. Especially when it is based around what the players value, itself, is. This isn't giving someone a raise and not others. It is whatever someone's market value is.

I'd love to read any response you have, but I'm exhausted on the subject and done responding on it. I think we have aired out all of our points by now.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 08:09 PM

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 I appreciate your passion. I am not tied to players staying four years. I don't like OADs.

But here's what's important. I want players that want to play in college. I am all for competition.

Further, I don't think you have to pay players to entice them to come. If you do, then they should choose something else if they want to get paid.

The concern I see above with universities getting paid for their players is off base. What company or entity does not make money off those that perform services for them? It's a red-herring.

Further, if the value of a college player's services is what the market will bear, right? Where is the market? It certainly isn't restricted.

See, what you and others want is for a private organization to change its rules to accommodate the desires of a few. Instead of competing, folks want to change an entities rules and make them something they aren't. See, the NCAA works great for most every athlete.

The market is there and open to be exploited. Start a league. Pay the players. Let them get endorsements. But if it was there, wouldn't someone have done it by now?

Ah, but that's the tricky part isn't it -- the players derive most all of their value from the stage that the NCAA provides. That's right, the universities have the facilities, the tourney, the TV contract, the national exposure, the marketing, the brands, right? Without it, there's nothing.

Thus is why the players just don't sign with UA, or Nike, or Adidas out of high school, or go sign autographs, or whatever, and skip college.

But you are ignoring the fact that they ARE getting paid with endorsements right this second. Ignoring that Nike and Adidas are never going to stop finding ways to pay players to attend certain schools or involve themselves in basketball. I do not think the NCAA should pay players. Or the Universities should pay players. I just do not think that they should restrict players earnings.

Why do you think they should restrict players earnings? How would that change the already screwed up landscape of College Basketball and College Basketball recruiting? How would it change KU basketball? What would it do?

Why continue the song and dance? Instead of players taking dirty money and the NCAA looking the other way full well knowing it is happening, why not just accept it and regulate it.

Your argument is, "its free market," and that is it and if the players don't like it, go somewhere else. I mean you are basically just opposing something just to oppose it if you can't tell me simply, why you think the NCAA should not let players fetch endorsements when it would cost the NCAA and its member schools absolutely nothing or, more likely, it would save everyone millions from the reduced compliance and investigating that would need to take place.

These rules were made to only apply to the small number of athletes in the first place. So saying a rule works for the large majority of athletes when it wasn't created for them in the first place is not actually digging into the problem.

You are basically saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Except it is broke, and now you are really saying "well it still kind of works and we don't really want to fix it, so just leave it how it is." What happens something comes around that actually does work, effectively ends CBB, and all we had to do was change a simple rule that was created for and only effected a small number of athletes? I love CBB and don't want to see it go away. But not being proactive about these types of things is exactly how you see large companies go out of business all the time.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 06:13 PM

@BigBad I firmly believe that the schools are paying the players plenty in free education and infrastructure. And that is fair across the board for all sports and athletes in college.

But the top recruits could easily be fetching $100k+ from endorsements every year while in school. How do I know this? Because they are literally getting that right now even while it is against the rules. Allowing them to get endorsements based on an open market takes title IX right out of the window. It isn't gender based, it is what the market is willing to pay for a player.

Stifling those players abilities to earn has created a strange legal issue that could be fixed if we just let players fetch endorsements. Again, the school would not pay one single penny more. The open and free market would dictate what players got paid and what players didn't. It's that simple.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 06:04 PM

@wissox THE SCHOOLS DO NOT PAY THE PLAYERS. THE PLAYERS FETCH ENDORSEMENTS ON AN OPEN MARKET.

If a rower can get someone to pay them for rowing, by God, let them get paid.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 05:37 PM

@wissox Anyone who thinks NOT paying players for their services is still a good idea doesn't understand human nature very well.

Even if it continues to be "illegal," it will still happen because it has happened since sports were invented and the NCAA was established. So instead of being a stubborn old fool, the NCAA should find a better way to regulate these payments out in the open so that men never have to go to jail over something this stupid ever again.

If something is happening when it is illegal and still accepted by society, it is NEVER going to stop. Once you accept that, then you can solve the problem and begin to regulate what is happening instead. That is what I understand about human nature. Apparently you do not.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 11, 2018 04:43 PM

@BeddieKU23 Was damn funny!

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 04:42 PM

@HighEliteMajor Again, you want players to stay here for 4 years, yet you don't want to offer them any reason to pick college over the pros.

It is a contradicting idea. You literally can't have it both ways.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 04:33 PM

@HighEliteMajor They are getting money for those endorsements one way or another and it is ignorant to think otherwise. Right now, it is just behind closed doors, and the NCAA is obviously accepting of it or else Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, Collin Sexton, etc. wouldn't have finished the season. It only makes sense to change the rules, if nobody is following them anyways.

It is more like the reason that they just upped the speed limit on Hwy 71. Nobody was following the speed limit anyways, so it was more dangerous for those traveling on it at the speed limit.

This was happening already. Because this was happening already, we now have people potentially going to prison for a crime that most would consider victimless.

Plain and simple, it is no longer a rule if nobody abides by it and you don't enforce it.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 04:20 PM

@BigBad They do it now in the NBA. The jerseys are Nike but shoes don't matter. I think it would be an easy restructure honestly. It would end up evening out. Nike would pay some Adidas kids and Adidas would pay some Nike kids and before you knew it, you wouldn't even think about what shoes kids were wearing.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 04:12 PM

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/apr/10/bill-self-responds-allegations-federal-indictment-/#comments ↗

Bills response last night. Nothing big other than he doesn't think himself or a coach will be named.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 03:49 PM

If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn't have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 03:43 PM

@BigBad I'm not going to repost my entire response from another thread. But if it bothers you enough, don't watch it. Simple problem.

If you think the Universities are getting used by these kids, especially the OADs, you have it completely backwards and there is no convincing you otherwise. Put in the same shoes as those kids, you would be making the exact same decision and I guarantee it.

The money isn't the same as it was in the 90s. The sport has exploded and salaries have nearly quadrupled, completely outperforming inflation. You could earn enough money playing for 5 years at league minimum now to live comfortably the rest of your life. And some of these guys only have 5 good years in them. Wasting 3 of them in college doesn't make sense.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 02:45 PM

@BigBad Oh your argument is beyond tired.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 01:54 PM

@BigBad Yea that's the solution to the problem... :rolling_eyes:

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 01:52 PM

I will say that all previous cases, the athlete was caught by the NCAA. With no real way to prove that the school or a coach wasn't directly involved or aware.

This case may very well be different because the FBI has came out and declared that KU had no knowledge of either situation. KU has proven as well that they will go to great lengths to not play someone when they do have knowledge. To punish our program because of Silvio would shock me. Especially if he is ruled eligible to play this next year. If Quinerley and Nas Little can get cleared to play, Silvio will as well, and at that point there would be no vacating of wins. I'll be surprised to see us vacate anything.

Ranking of college bball coaches • Apr 11, 2018 12:42 PM

@JayHawkFanToo I’ll believe it when it happens. But he isn’t a top 15 coach yet.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 12:58 AM

@KUSTEVE I'd just give it a minute. I'm sure the Nike hammer will come.

FBI • Apr 11, 2018 12:46 AM

Yea I reread it, and it is definitely Billy instead of Josh. My bad.

Ranking of college bball coaches • Apr 10, 2018 10:42 PM

List is clickbait and a joke. Archie Miller is already at 15? Lol.

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:33 PM

Does sound like De Sousa. If that is the case, also sounds like they got blackmailed by UA. It was KU or Maryland right?

No coaches listed. Players dealing directly with Adidas. JJ's mom could absolutely be in deep shit here though if she didn't claim everything correctly.

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:24 PM

@MR11 thanks pal

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:24 PM

@MR11 Link?

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:23 PM

Well at least we know that Adidas was trying to do it's part for us against Nike lol. The "embargo" was real for a period of time.

I'm sure other schools are laughing at us right now. But I can't wait to see what comes out of the EYBL raid. Adidas didn't just start paying players $90k while Nike wasn't lol.

Cal and K just landed 9 of the top 25 player for 2018 lol. BUT NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS.

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:12 PM

Minus Bill Self allegedly being on tape ordering the payment.

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:11 PM

That recruitment was to MSU what the Ayton one was to us.

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:09 PM

Gots to be JJ's mom. Honestly, how that went down I would have picked him over anyone else that has come here.

FBI • Apr 10, 2018 10:08 PM

@Eric-san Probably legally. But only because someone has to fall on the sword and I seriously doubt it to be Bill Self.

2018-2019 Grad & Sitout Transfer Thread • Apr 10, 2018 07:02 PM

I would think Syracuse would be his go to. Make up for his original mistake like Newman did. Funny thing to me, he went to UK knowing he was going to be a multi-year player there. But I don't think he expected to be over-recruited.

48 hours ago, I thought UK looked like a top 5 team with depth and some experience. Now, I think they look like a 10 loss team again. They are now at a point where, for every new 5 star they take, they will be losing one with experience. Just seems like a poor trade.

  • SGA > Hagans
  • Sophomore Green > Quickley
  • Knox > KJ
  • PJ = PJ
  • EJ = Junior SKJ

Don't see where they improved this offseason.

2018-2019 Grad & Sitout Transfer Thread • Apr 10, 2018 06:36 PM

@FarmerJayhawk And having Jacobs on the way... Pretty set at that position, or else I'd be interested.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 05:44 PM

Reading rumors about Carey reclassifying to 2018. Somehow Duke pulled the same shit with Bagley last summer.

The new recruit profile • Apr 10, 2018 05:35 PM

@wissox BRIAN BUTCH! Before Leuer. He was my favorite guy to play with on my college basketball video game. Until they quit making them.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 04:44 PM

@justanotherfan what percentage do you think he needs to get to? I really don't think he is that far away from being a competent shooter. I felt the majority of his problem was he wanted to defer to the other guys on the court so when he was so wide open that he HAD to shoot it he was nervous or uncomfortable or out of rhythm.

If he made 4 more threes this year he would have shot .355. I would be fine with that. As long as his 2pt% stayed up around .550 as well.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 04:23 PM

Fine with me honestly. Lawson's scare me. Dedric was worth the risk as a proven commodity. But I've been waiting for it to blow up in our faces since they got here.

@BShark Or KJ's lol. Went from .222 to .328. Should be interesting.

I expect to see them both hit about .333 or better. Especially when you consider they will be shooting open looks in the flow of an offense compared to playing iso hero ball. Those two guys shot a TON.

@BShark I'd take him replicating his .350 from his Fr. season.

Draft Declarations Thread • Apr 10, 2018 03:33 PM

@JayHawkFanToo I won't consider it over until Wright proves it's over. Had they not landed Quinerley, I'd have some concerns. But they should be able to keep on keeping on it looks like.

If Spellman leaves, I do think it will be hard for them to be a top 5 team. I just don't think he is going anywhere.

@jaybate-1.0 You must feel pretty mighty picking apart an 18 year olds quote.

I forget what the offseason is like around here.

Modern Basketball vs Bill Self • Apr 10, 2018 02:50 PM

@dylans Well, Svi, Frank, Newman and DG were always going to have deficiencies on D from either size or athleticism. Vick was truly a disappointment on that end though.

Doesn't help when you have no rim protection covering up for it either.

2018-2019 Grad & Sitout Transfer Thread • Apr 10, 2018 02:48 PM

@BShark Just basically bringing in another Shai, but it is going to cost them their best shooting guard from last year. I think this could turn into a nightmare for them honestly. We can only hope lol.

2018-2019 Grad & Sitout Transfer Thread • Apr 10, 2018 02:40 PM

At this point, I don't see Vanderbilt staying to come off of the bench again. He is either going pro or transferring imo. Green as well. UK fans are all happy right now, talking about depth. Its all about to leave lol.

I am glad that Bill doesn't recruit this exact same way. This would absolutely be frustrating and tiresome. They will be adding players probably through June at this point.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 02:35 PM

BeddieKU23 said:

It looks like we could have big man "good problems to have" next year as well. I think we get an impact wing and impact guard. NBA scouts seem to love Grimes. I think he impresses enough to go

I pretty much agree with all of this. Good thing is that Big Dave came in with a fantastic mindset, and I think that is huge as far as keeping everyone happy.

I do think it will be hard to recruit a wing prospect with Junior Garrett here. I really think he might be an AA candidate that year. But if Garrett has a disappointing Sophomore year, I definitely could see it.

Good problems to have.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 02:18 PM

Just looking at the projected depth chart for the 2019 season:

  • PG: Dotson - Jacobs - moore
  • SG: Grimes/Top Recruit SG - Agbaji
  • SF - Garrett - KJ
  • PF - KJ - Hurt - JRE - Mitch
  • C - De Sousa - Big Dave

I actually think that works PT wise as long as Hurt is ok getting his 25 minutes coming off of the bench. I am worried about the Lawson clan getting pissed if KJ doesn't start. Of course, that could all be solved if SDS is leaving early. I would love to know who the staff thinks is here after next season.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 01:56 PM

@BShark Maybe that post belongs here. But I don't see how Quade Green stays at this point.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 01:56 PM

@BeddieKU23 Feels like Self had been waiting to do this USA thing until the right time.

2018-2019 Grad & Sitout Transfer Thread • Apr 10, 2018 01:55 PM

I would be shocked to see Quade stay at this point.

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 01:07 PM

@BeddieKU23 JRE is a multi year guy, barring a phenomenal season right?

2019 Recruiting • Apr 10, 2018 12:42 PM

@BShark it would be very telling if both of them committed early. Would make me think both Lawsons are here for one season only.

2018-2019 Grad & Sitout Transfer Thread • Apr 10, 2018 12:39 PM

@BShark the fact that they have a 27 page thread on firing Turgeon cracks me up.

Not to mention how dellusional they are about who they could hire. Talking about Mike White, Jay Wright, Tony Bennett lol. That job is no better than any other P5 job for the most part. They must really think they are a Blue Blood type