🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Well it is 3 of 13 guys on the 2015 FF team I believe.

@mayjay it’s funny because most of the people who argue to not pay the players are also the most vocal about OADs. Instead of offering something that might make the best players stay and have a vested interest in the university, they want them to play 4 years for pennies when they could be playing for dollars.

I know that I would want Self to step down or be fired for something like this. There are more important things than basketball.

@justanotherfan Well that was where he originally committed, and I have already read rumors actually. But I agree, not sure they have had a post athlete like him yet.

I would bet he ends up at UVA.

Lol UK fans losing it on each other right now too.

And there it. SKJ transferring from Kentucky. Sit one to play 2. I actually expect one more post to leave out of that group. Could be anyone at this point. But 5 is still a lot of mouths to feed.

@BeddieKU23 Really weird. I've seen him as high as 16 and as low as going undrafted. Probably ends up borderline 1st. Definitely worth a 2nd round pick imo.

Don't think it was posted, but Trent declared. Not a surprise. My biggest surprise is that he is going to be a first round pick. Really underwhelmed by him the entire season.

@REHawk Lol well I would just stick to specific talking points and not the entire body of work when speaking about the POTUS. If you break out what you (dis)like about him with policies or by topic instead of just insulting (or praising) him as a person, you may very well be able to have a rational discussion.

I really like Cunliffe's potential. As a solid role player in the future. Kind of put him there with Moore. I hope he finishes college here and never starts and is just a really solid sub for two years. He needs to redshirt this season though if Ochai isn't at least.

@BShark I sure hope he's that dumb. Best way to ruin a team with the perimeter play they potentially have would be to not use it lol.

He is the biggest f-ing hypocrite too. He would do it and then play at a pace slower than ever after just this year talking about how he hates when teams play slow.

Is nobody curious how Bryce Drew went from Valpo to Vandy and somehow turned himself into a top 5 recruiter after two not great years? I just saw he was in play with Montgomery at the end still. If he pulls the Langford coup, my goodness. Just haven't seen anything like it.

@justanotherfan No he cannot.

@justanotherfan I just don't see PJ leaving. He is a skinny 6'7 PF that can't stretch the floor at all and is a liability defensively. I just am not seeing the NBA intrigue. If he doesn't leave, I just don't see how Cal can keep 6 guys happy. No way no how. Especially when 2 of them are Juniors. Gabriel isn't going to want to come off of the bench for his entire career. He was a top 15 recruit. Same for SKJ, he was a top 25 recruit. Vanderbilt is not coming off of the bench or playing fewer than 25 minutes without becoming a lockerroom disaster. Richards camp isn't happy I'm sure. He went from a projected lottery pick to the last Big off of the bench at the end of the season. I don't know what they are thinking, but I am sure that they won't be happy playing only 14 mpg again.

At the very least, PJ is leaving you may be right. But he isn't on a single mock draft I have seen. If he comes back, you are telling me that you really believe Cal will be able to keep 6 top post recruits happy on the same roster with only 40 minutes to split?

@BShark He is a good coach. And I expect him to get Illinois turned around. They just need to let him purge the roster first. It was a shit roster he took over. I would be two year from now, the Illini will be happy with that hire.

Of course he would have to be there two years from now lol.

@BShark Yea I never much considered him on the roster. After his hole body guard thing, he was never coming back.

I mean, do you see SKJ or Gabriel wanting to come off the bench as Juniors? Or Richards come off the bench as a Sophomore? I don't think Montgomery committed to UK without the promise of starting. If PJ and Vanderbilt come back, one of them is riding the pine.

We are talking about 4 guys who were 5 star recruits coming off of the bench. I don't see how everyone stays in that scenario.

Unbelievable that we can't land bigs when we have guys like Landen and Jamari "in the way" when UK literally has 5 guys with real talent and NBA potential on the roster.

EJ Montgomery to UK means one of their post players is gone imo. It could honestly be any of the posts still on the roster. But 40 minutes to feed 6 mouth doesn't seem like it is going to work. Honestly, I sort of expect two of them to be gone. None of those guys is going to be ok sitting.

Did Carey announce his top 5?

@HighEliteMajor your comparison to this years Michigan team by itself is no different than me comparing other experienced KU teams that didn’t make the NC to the Fab 5. If Michigan can make a NC with 5 freshmen, no reason KU shouldn’t just go for stud Freshmen every year.

@FarmerJayhawk If he doesn't come here I hope he puts us out of the misery now. Glad Porter Jr. Eliminated us early last year when he could have road the hype train

@HighEliteMajor Comparing us to Michigan isn't really fair. The expectations are different. Bill Self would not still be the Head Coach at Kansas with the same record as Beilein at Michigan. In 11 years he missed the Tournament thrice and has never lost fewer than 8 games. Didn't at WVU either.

In 11 of Jay Wrights first 12 years at Nova, he only lost less than 8 games once, missing the tournament 4 times. Again, he would have been fired at KU. He has had a spectacular 5 year run, but it took 12 years to be able to build that first. If you could give Bill the time and patience to do that, sure I think he could build something similar. FWIW, he has landed high ranked guys, they just stayed multiple years due to some deficiency. That is great recruiting on his part, but something Bill would get torched for on the recruiting circuit. We already get crap for Alexander, Diallo, Oubre, Selby, Henry, Bragg and Selden. The narrative is different. If we take a top 25 kid, he is automatically a presumed OAD because he came to KU. If Self landed Spellman, Brunson or Quinerley, they would be looked at as failures for not going pro immediately.

In the years Bill has lost 8 or more games, we probably would have been worse without the OADs we had on the roster. Imagine a team with no Wiggins and Embiid. They miss the tournament. Oubre's team lost 9 games and he was the best player on the team, despite not getting the minutes he should have gotten. Had we landed Sexton or Ayton this year, I would put money on us losing fewer than 8 games.

Presumed OADs have made the FF at least as often (I actually think more, but I've had a few and my research skills are not great at the moment) as FFs without since the rule has been instituted. Three other Blue Bloods have won NCs with OADs on there team, when otherwise they may have had down years or certainly not won a NC. Using one year as your example is a weak argument, when there are 15 years that prove a OAD can be a crucial part of a FF run.

I would have to go back through a lot of posts to find my previous research, but essentially it is much easier for a Blue Blood to recruit the top 19 players than it is to recruit 25-50 as you suggest they do. The reason being, 25-50 players would start at most P5s as a freshmen. But not at KU or most Blue Bloods. Where, 1-19 in the current OAD system are typically good enough to start immediately regardless of where they choose. Because of this, Blue Bloods actually recruit better 1-19 than they do 20-50 because those guys would rather start immediately than sit on the bench. This creates holes because you can't get enough good program guys in the system to avoid having holes or down years in the future.

It is easy to say go recruit 20-50, but much harder in practice. You can't lie to those guys and tell them they will come and start, because then you lose credibility when they don't.

If the OAD rule wasn't in effect at all, I think KU would be in a better spot because they could recruit program players much better. But under the current rules, I don't agree that KU would be better off avoiding OADs.

@CRH107 I think it is a moot point for anyone. Would you want someone who could be a top 25 player in CBB on your team for a year or not? I don't think it is that hard of a decision for a coach.

@nuleafjhawk Nobody love's the OADs. It has screwed up CBB pretty good. But your argument really wasn't arguing for or against OADs. You basically argued that OADs should stay 4 years and forgo three years of potential earnings, in a job that relies on youth and athleticism and only allows guys to make money for a finite number of years.

Put yourself in the shoes of a OAD. I find it extremely hard to believe you wouldn't take millions of dollars, when you are making at most $120k in "payment", simply out of loyalty.

Your argument was simply misguided, or perhaps even misstated. Had your argument been about whether we like or dislike the OAD rule, I would think most people would agree that they don't like it and it is a stupid rule.

My question to you, at this particular moment, would you rather land a OAD prospect who could possibly be the best player on the team if he came, especially in our current roster situation (one that is ranked preseason #1 and a NC Contender) or would you rather take a prospect ranked roughly 120 that stayed for 4 years and has a ceiling of cracking the rotation for 20 minutes per game, a floor of getting the Bill Self Shuffle after one year, and an average of basically being Christian Garrett? Because, this second, that is about where we are at as far as options. I guess you could bring in a transfer. But then you would still only have them for 1 season.

If you say the #150, I would like insert that scenario into your "metaphor." Instead of hiring the person most qualified for the job because you are afraid they will leave, you would rather hire a person under-qualified for the job and try to train them, even though you know that they will literally NEVER be able to be as good as someone you could have had for one year, and will likely not perform at a competent level for the entire time you have them under your employ? You could do that, or perhaps hire a temp for a year until you try to hire a decently qualified person. But at that point, you could have had a very qualified person for a year instead of a temp who is a temp for a reason.

If you are mad at Newman or Vick, again, these guys only have a short window to earn as much money as possible before their athleticism fades. Put in the same situation as them, I find it hard to believe you wouldn't do the same thing.

Jontay is a great pick for a team in the late 1st. He is a good passing, rebounding and shooting 4 man that should fit well in the NBA.

Langford's said the decision would come after these All-Star games. The last one is the 13th. He wants to announce at his HS gym, so it would be Monday at the earliest. But I would bet that it will take a day or two to put everything together with ESPN and the HS. So I would bet 4/18 at the earliest. He won't take or have any more visits either which I think bodes well.

@HighEliteMajor I think Bill would go full on UVA and Tony Bennett pace before he started Cunliffe lol.

The real question is how good is Ochai. If he is better than Cunliffe, there is no path that Cunliffe can get time even off the bench.

But perhaps the staff likes Cunliffes upside. He’s the best pure athlete on the team. Maybe he would be willing to redshirt, an option a lot haven’t talked about. That would give him the option of a grad transfer as well if he never improves enough to get time.

Vick should still be able to play for a good chunk of change overseas. Maybe not $1M+ a year like Langford, but six figures for sure.

I think Moore is a great piece for the team. He is a high end backup PG that I hope never starts. But at the very least he is capable enough to push the younger more talented PGs we have coming in. He is good enough that Self can use him to prove a point if the younger guys aren’t doing what he asks. I actually think he is a perfect fit in a backup role. I expect him to grad transfer when the time comes, but I am happy he is on the team. I expect him to be very important to our early season success, while slowly taking a lesser role as the season goes on.

@approxinfinity always a way of making room. If Vick wanted to stay, I’m not sure Cunliffe wasn’t the one to go. If he doesn’t go still. I’d put him on transfer notice now.

@BShark It sounds like the Vick's were told Romeo is coming, as well as it seemed like the Vick's know his stock is about as high as it can get in college. He will have to go prove he can play with the big boys now.

I fully expect UK to lose at least one more player besides Knox, Diallo and SGA.

If Hagans commits and reclassifies, you have to think that Green is being shown the door right? And Montgomery is showing someone else the door imo.

Maybe Vanderbilt leaves. Oh. That one would give UK fans tears lol. That's fun just to think about haha

@HighEliteMajor We already landed the 3 year replacement. Langford is icing on cake at this point.

@BShark That was a joke. No doubt in my mind he was leaving. I expect SGA to announce with an agent within the week.

@BShark Scholarships is not the problem lol. Vanderbilt, Washington, SKJ and Gabriel were all playing in front of him last year. Add Montgomery into the mix and I don't see where his minutes come from.

Of course UK won't get roasted that Richards, Gabriel, Vanderbilt and Washington all come back for multiple years despite being top 25 players. Only Self gets that treatment. :rolling_eyes:

@BShark No brainer. Would be dumb to do otherwise imo.

Would not shock me to see Richards transfer if they land Montgomery and Washington comes back. No room at the inn.

@nuleafjhawk Not frustrating. If they are a perfect fit and elevated your business, you should just be happy they worked there even if it was just for a year.

If people are leaving after just one year, than either you are, one, developing them very well and they are taking a big step forward when they leave. Or, two, you aren't providing enough for them, so they leave.

Are you not more frustrated when you interview a dozen or so people and the one you pick doesn't live up to expectations for an extended period of time and it actually hampers your entire company?

@kjayhawks I think it is ok to have very high expectations for this team. Maybe not NC, but anything less than a Conference Championship and EE is a complete failure. FF is my expectations, and NC would be amazing no matter what year it happens.

@kjayhawks to me, he looks heavy and slow and not ready. He was absolutely destroyed by Carey this year. He also doesn’t seem like a good guy to play next to De Sousa. Mitch can at least spread the floor.

I think Bill is honest with the guys too. Vick would have to play better than he is even capable of in Bill's system to raise his stock next season. Would have to play at a level he isn't capable of for an entire season. So go now while you still have "potential."

@justanotherfan At this point. I don't think Bill goes that route. Either you are good enough to compete or you will get recruited over and pushed out. Dog eat dog.

It isn't a graceful way of constructing a roster, but it has times where it is effective.

@BShark The flood gates are going to open up I think.

@Blown No his stock isn't high. And he was absolutely forced out. Just wasn't ever tough enough to be successful under Self.

To top things off though, Vick had that dorm incident. And was involved in the incident at the country club.

He also just doesn't seem like a good fit for next year's club. You don't want his personality hanging around your new group if you think he is a potential cancer.

@kjayhawks Didn't forget about him. Just don't think he will play basically at all next season. He is a project. Looks like he has cinder-blocks tied to his feet right now.

@Blown I feel like we had been talking about it for awhile now. Always thought he was leaving.

Signs pointing to Doke leaving:
- Lawson brothers didn't come here to sit.
- Big Dave signed early. I don't think he plays still, but no way the staff told him he would be the 6th big.
- Not a lot of minutes for a lot of bodies.

I'm interested in how the roster ends up shaking out for sure. I still think we are the best team in the country depth wise next season. Could legit go 10 deep on the bench even without Doke.

I really think Lightfoot should take a Redshirt. Doke leaving would still give us 4 bigs, with the ability to go 4 guards if we ever needed to.

• PG: Dotson - 32MPG : Moore - 8 MPG
• SG: Grimes - 28 MPG: Garrett - 14 MPG
• SF: Langford - 30 MPG: Garrett - 10 MPG
• PF: Dedric - 30 MPG : Lightfoot/KJ - 10 MPG
• C: Doke: 25 MPG : De Sousa - 15 MPG

I think it does look more and more likely Doke leaves... in which case, this is my thoughts:

• PG: Dotson - 32MPG : Moore - 8 MPG
• SG: Grimes - 28 MPG: Garrett - 14 MPG
• SF: Langford - 30 MPG: Garrett - 10 MPG
• PF: KJ - 22 MPG : Lightfoot - 10 MPG : De Sousa - 8 MPG
• C: Dedric: 30 MPG : De Sousa - 10 MPG

I really like the starting group with KJ and Dedric. I think that let's us stretch the floor and play fluently on offense, while still be really long on the defensive end.

@HighEliteMajor Nothing wrong with due diligence. Kid is worth $1M literally right this second if he wanted to play overseas. No reason to rush a decision. I still think it is done to KU though.

Well I think Romeo's decision will come before too long.